>>from around >>The globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM. Think 2021 brought to you by IBM Hello and welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm john for your host of the cube. I'm excited to have this next guest cube alumni Casey choi corporate E V P. Executive vice president and general manager at Samsung Mobile, the B to B and B to G team Casey, great to see you how you been >>john it is wonderful to see you and it's been way too long. Great to be back on the cube with you. Looking forward to our conversation and hope you're safe >>and same to you. Great to see you. I'm so excited. One of the things I've really admired about you and our conversations in the past as you've always had your finger on the pulse of the waves and you've always involved with some really great engineering work and I want to dig into this now because um your role is really hitting the industry four dot oh kind of wave, which is the confluence of tech, media, entertainment, every vertical big data IOT and the the with the distributed computing now called the cloud and edge. It really sets the table for what is now going to be the preferred architecture probably for the next 20 plus years. So give us your view on how you see the the changing landscape in the industry. >>Yeah, I think I think you you covered you know, all of the major seismic shifts that are happening here and then, you know, as we've all experienced over the last, you know, over a year with the covid pandemic, that's actually accelerated a lot of the thinking around the edge. We've certainly seen use cases proliferate whether it be in things such as health care, Manufacturing is also taken. I think a real hard look at the applicability of these types of solutions. Uh we've seen things like for example 5G pick up in these sort of industrial applications as um you know as the industrial companies have thought about worker safety as they thought about automation as they thought about, you know, utilize being more protocols as well as you know, bringing these technologies and processes together in a way that will help to kind of reinvent their their particular economic base as well as kind of the learnings that we've seen over the last year coming from these new uh safety protocols as well as the need for now with the economy is picking back up the need for productivity as well as you know, greater efficiencies coming from these types of solutions. So we've seen that confluence happened and then certainly on our end as our network connectivity has become much stronger, lower latency as well as the endpoint capabilities have increased dramatically over the last few years, as S O C. S and others have taken root. We've seen the edge, if you will start to be more extreme in the sense that it's pushing further and further out beyond what we originally envisioned the edge to be. >>And the S O C trend actually highlights that it's not so much about moore's law as it is more about more chips, more more performance if you look at actual performance, David and they just put out a report on this where there's much more performance now than ever before coming in from the combined energy. So uh and combined processing power out there. So it's super, super amazing what you can do at the edge. Before we get into the edge. I want to just Clarify, what is your new role there? I mean Samsung is known for, I'll see the B2C with the phones and everything else, but you have a specific focus uh what is your main focus there? >>Yeah, our missions pretty straightforward and as everyone knows, you know, Samsung is this uh you know, powerhouse uh consumer electronics company we pride ourselves in and obviously uh our our position in that, but um we also have a very significant role really in the business to business and in the government and financial services sector space uh with our mobile devices as well as with our knock security platform solution and device management platform. We actually provide a large portion of the secure devices for governments worldwide, as well as the Knox platform that is built into the majority of our both consumer as well as business devices uh really allows for uh that uh if you will that next protective layer on top of the android. Os that allows for things such as personal and professional profile. So we produce those solutions out of my team um as well as we provide really the the go to market support as well as the R and D support for that platform, including uh an area that's growing rapidly for us, which is in the rugged category, which is, you know, one of the key products that we're using for some of these edge applications that will be talking about. >>Great, let's jump into that. What are you guys doing specifically on the edge computing space? Let's dig into it. >>Yeah, I think, you know, maybe the place to start on that is uh we're really kind of re envisioning what the edges and uh I mentioned a little earlier that uh with what's occurring in the performance profile and really the functional profile, what is being produced at the device level, You know, we're talking about in the last few years, the fidelity and the capabilities are, you know, in, you know, what I would call the the computer class type uh, functions as well as obviously mobile devices have always been um, communication gateways for a number of functions, whether they be, you know, videos or photos, their multi sensory in nature. And as this has become more practical and the connective tissue has gotten there with five G as well as all kinds of other, you know, fast, low latency communications capabilities and wifi six U w b, you know, included within that. What we're finding is that the use case to bring applications, especially cloud, native and container native applications uh, to these devices to be, you know, augmenting the the endpoint user, the frontline worker, uh really the Knowledge Worker and moving that capability further away from if you will and an extension to cloud services as well as the M E C type services. This is where we see it going and really what we're trying to to work on with IBM and with red hat is how do we, you know, continue to fortify this, not only from a actual processing ai Ml capability, but also equipped these devices so that they can fully participate as part of a multi hybrid cloud architecture. Uh the endpoint is really one of the last baskets where we have not uh kind of conquered bringing uh, you know, cloud first container native applications really to that point and we believe the time is right because of the capabilities that are there along with again, uh the connectivity that is becoming much more ubiquitous now to allow for that type of architecture to exist. And uh, we're starting to call this the intelligent human edge as well. We think that the applications that will see for this are you know, ones that will uh, you know, make the, the human operator more productive, safer, uh certainly more efficient and uh we think that this augmentation of that front line workers is an area that we, we are, you know, put put our, our steaks on in terms of pioneering just because of our experience in that mobility space and in the consumer space. >>That's great. You brought up red hat and IBM obviously red hat was bought by IBM Arvin Arvin Ceo. Well I interviewed in 2019 and the cube that red hat summit, ironically a couple months later by the company just smile on his face. He likes clowns. >>You had something to do with that. You know, >>he wanted to, I could see he wanted to say it, but but he loves the cloud. Everyone who knows Arvin knows that he's into the cloud in a new way in this edge piece that you mentioned that you're using red hat and IBM for hybrid. This is what the new operating system is going to look like. It's a completely distributed system and the edge is just part of that operating model. This is what their vision is, which I love by the way, I think that redefines what that is. Are you saying that you guys are working with red hat and IBM for that hybrid edge piece. How does that work? Can you take me through that? >>Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean this is a obviously the ecosystems bigger than that, but IBM and red Hat really bring the expertise really around uh container ecosystems, certainly the work that they have done in terms of multi hybrid cloud, uh certainly the work that open ship has brought forward in terms of, you know, multi platform capability. We really love the concept of developed once run any sort of a construct. And uh when you think about it, the mobile platforms specifically, you know, ours as well as others has really been that last bastion of, of areas where more of the development is on a particular platform, it's more bespoke. We think that by broaching this uh, you know, in conjunction with IBM and Red Hat, um this is going to give us the ability to have these device architecture has become a full voting member if you will of of that hybrid cloud architecture and of that microservices can contain architecture that is becoming much more prevalent. So this is really the work that we're doing. And then obviously we're working at a vertical level to see where are the applicable use cases in places such as the design studio we have in Singapore, where with the Singaporean government, we're looking at really bringing a renaissance to industry ford auto type application, smart factory automation, public safety. These areas where we believe that this type of architecture can be, can be deployed. >>That's awesome. And totally believe that the edge um it's still gonna be pushed further and further out, honestly having that open, open standards of of hybrid. So I gotta ask you on the edge just well I got you here, you know, one of the things that you see clearly as the industrial edge, it's called factories and whatnot. You mentioned some of those and then you got the human piece, which is like people have phones and wearables and other things are gonna be happening. So as you start to have those endpoints which are then gonna be connected into a distributed network, take a hybrid cloud, so to be multiple clouds. But yeah, that's the subsystem within the cloud construct. The complaint has been not complaint, but the observation has been and complain if you look at it that the edges limited by power and connectivity. Okay. These are like key basic concepts, How is the connectivity option? I know five Gs coming, it's here, we're seeing it being deployed, we got people saying, hey, this is our business application, clearly got higher throughput, not as much range, give us your take on this because this becomes important. I'll see powers battery driven, getting better and better and and power is getting uh is not really that much of a problem, but connectivity seems to be what's your vision of this? >>Yeah, and you know, there's a lot of ways to approach that, I will tell you on the industrial side, at least in some of the deployments and pOC is that we've been involved in over the last year to two years, um connectivity is an issue uh and a lot of it has to do with the infrastructure that is available in many of these uh you know, plants or factories or you know, points of distribution. Uh they're not necessarily, you know, leading edge in many cases we're dealing with uh you know what I would call subpar connectivity, it's not like an office complex where You may have, you know, kind of state of the art wifi capability or you know, 10 gig capability or whatever it might be. Um So what we've, what we've found on that is it requires actually quite a bit of work in terms of fine tuning both on the network infrastructure side, whatever that might be. Uh Or we've also found that on the device side, the program ability of the of the device in terms of tuning it for whatever connective environment would be there. And we worked with everything from, you know, bluetooth, you w b uh to wifi six and everything in between and in many cases they're multiple uh you know, protocols or connectivity methods that are there. So, you know, one thing we've learned is that um you can't you can't necessarily assume that in a especially in a factory environment that those conditions are going to allow for um uh you know, consistency, so you have to engineer around that, you know, and some of the things that we've done are really around making sure that we've got uh, you know, deployable program ability at the device as well as, you know, uh more dynamic network tuning capabilities that will allow for, you know, better connectivity and handle things such as consistency. >>All right, Casey, Great to incite final question for you why Samsung and IBM, what's the bottom line? >>Yeah, I think the bottom line is really straightforward. I mean we've had a, you know, 30 year history of working together, uh you know, we've been mutual customers to each other. We do a lot of work for IBM in regards to foundry type services and semiconductor services and then we work very closely with them over many years on applications. So number one, there's been a natural relationship just in the the the services that we provided to each other. But as as we look at really to go to market, I mean, IBM brings so much credibility from a vertical market perspective. Um there's a trusted advisor type status that I think is is very profound and it's been built over many years, you know, delivering on the promises and on our end. I think what we bring is really this uh this uh cycle time that is driven by our passion in the consumer space. And when we start to apply that into more of these vertical industrial, uh you know, vertical sectors, I think that combination is very powerful. Um the services piece obviously comes into play with IBM and then really the red hat piece of this really just puts the icing on the cake with really the market leadership in uh you know, hybrid cloud and in the container native architecture. So it's just a very powerful combo. And um you know, the cooperation there has been strong and we continue to look forward to delivering more through that partnership. >>Casey great to see a great, great thing to hear. You know, you got scalable infrastructure, you get modern applications at the edge, all of hybrid. Great, great partnership. Casey Choi Executive Vice Corporate Executive Vice President and General Manager of Samsung Mobile B two B team. Great to see you and congratulations on your mission. It's exciting project. Thanks for coming on the cube and sharing. >>Great to see you, jOHn take care of yourself and looking forward to seeing you again. >>Okay, this is the cubes coverage. IBM think 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>Live from San Diego, California at the cube covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back. This is the cubes coverage of CubeCon cloud native con here in San Diego. I am Stu Miniman. He is Justin Warren and our guest for this segment, a cube alumni VJ pan day, who's the vice president and CTO of cloud inside Cisco. Also on the keynote stage this morning. Be joined. Thanks so much for joining us again. Welcome. Pleasure to be here. All right, so, uh, we've got to see the sequel on stage. Uh, network. Please evolve. Part two. Uh, there were magnets involved. Uh, there were some XKCD Keke humor in there, which, uh, definitely this audience appreciates it. Um, but part to come on the networking industry is known for its lightening fast changes. Um, Oh, maybe I'm thinking of this ecosystem, but um, it could give her audience a little bit of a taste of, uh, you know, the, the, the, the premise, uh, of, of what you were talking about. >>Absolutely. I think, uh, so back in Barcelona I talked about how networking needed to evolve for a cloud native environment and the whole idea behind that talk was we've gone from physical infrastructure, which we call infant one dot Oh two virtual, which is in for two Dato. And in that transition, really nothing much changed except taking everything that was physical or even in the application space, taking monolithic apps and just wrapping everything up in a VM. And that was okay because you got a few things around a agility, you got disaster recovery, you got a few aspects that you would like. But largely things are monolithic largely, especially on the networking side, things were still being touted as routers or via routers, switches or switches, mr music, BGP and so on and so forth. Now when you're looking at containers and microservices, and I'm not talking about containers, which are just different shifts, but if you're breaking the application down into microservices or you're using silver less to build your applications, the app is getting thinner and thinner and much more distributed. >>That's where there's a complete reimagining of the application. There's a rearchitecture and because of that, the operational architecture is changing because you can't just have a database admin. The database is now 500 components. So you need your SRE organizations, your DevOps organizations to be aligned to that. You also, and therefore your organization changes because you're following this architecture paradigm shift. Yeah. So when that happens, how can the infrastructure remain the same? So you cannot use the concepts that you've used for physical and virtual networking, which have aggregate statistical networks to solve an application networking problem. Right? >>So w w one of the big challenges there is enterprise especially they've got a lot of applications. >>When you talk about how many of them are modern apps, it's a very small segment. You know, we talk about, Oh, 20% of apps in the cloud. Well how many apps have been modernized? It's a smaller piece of that and we need to have the bridge to the customer in all of the places that they are and are going. And you know, cloud is not a destination. It's, it's an operational model. So how do I, how do I span all of the environment? And embrace them and still keep, keep, everything's moving forward to, to drive the business. That's a good question. So I think if you look at, so to your point, there is a small percentage of apps that are cloud native today. I don't think it's as small as 20% I think it's closer to around 40 but we may differ on that number. >>What we are seeing is that that number is only growing. So that's a trend to watch out for. And the other trend to watch out for is it's not just the mobile front end or the dashboard that's becoming cloud native, which was the case a couple of years ago. You're seeing databases, you're seeing a middleware, you're seeing data processing pipelines, things that are critical to our business, do all of the apps that are getting modernized and becoming cloud native. So that's one aspect. The other aspect is you might have a function that remains and legacy, so to speak and get replaced by a cloud native app that does the same thing. So you might not rewrite it, but you might replace it. So that's happening quite a bit. And so, but to your question, how do you connect all of this, these things together? Cloud native is a philosophy. It's a way of operating an infrastructure is a way of building in the redundancy we have building in velocity. So that philosophy needs to percolate not just the new cloud native apps, but you need to uplift the old infrastructure and let them become cloud native as well. So things that we're doing with an assignment, things that we're doing with the attrition and our dynamic and a whole bunch of efforts within Cisco are geared towards uplifting the older gear on all the infrastructure in order applications. Do a client cloud native operational paradigm. >>Yeah, that's true. You mentioned part of that requires changing the way human behavior works, that it changing the way you operate a lot of this infrastructure. So it's not just about purchasing a particular tool, it's about actually using different tools in completely new and different ways. So what are some of the ways that Cisco is changing the kinds of products that it offers to customers that encourages them to operate their infrastructure in a new way? >>So let me start with the networking piece and since it's fresh and new from the keynote today, uh, one of the things, if you think about again, the developers and how they deal with applications, they want the network to be simple, available and pervasive. And so if you think about this in couple of tiers, so there is a physical infrastructure that sits below everything that is again, pervasive across a multicloud environment. And it goes all the way from your handset to the data center, including the edge compute locations. It connects everything together. So taking a network like that and simplifying it in terms of automation, in terms of how dev ops can handle that networking subsystem, in terms of how do you ensure that policy is consistent across this common environment, that is something that Cisco is pushing pretty deeply. So we have this multi-domain architecture that allows you to push policy across the entire network handset to the data center through the van. >>So that's one aspect of it. But above this sits a platform layer that is closer to the developer. And this is why things like NSM comment, because the developers don't want to deal with the bells and whistles at the physical or the virtual infrastructure layer. They are defining the CRDs. They are defining that if I'm a microservice, I want to talk to another microservice, all of bare metal orders over less function. I just want to connect a to B within my application. I don't care about every other application that exists in your infrastructure. And these are the attributes that I want from that connection. So it's like a watch and Wyatt like a bus and these are the attributes to the bus and that's what we're trying to handle from a cloud native perspective. So that's what you see from the NSM side of things. >>So, uh, we, we just had to go on talking about the database and talking about a cloud native database. And, uh, the way he really describes it is, you know, it's baked into Kubernetes even though Vitez doesn't have to have Coobernetti's. And he said he even had customers that it made it possible for them to be able to, uh, have that database from one cloud to another without needing to talk to his team. Uh, and it's, it's made things possible. Help us understand how the network service mesh fit into solutions like that. >>Absolutely. And I think if you think, I mean, I love the Virtus project they've graduated, so congratulations to them. But I think, uh, the concept behind that is taking the multicloud aspect of everything that we do to a layer which is higher in the stack. So we've talked about multicloud in terms of networking, in terms of compute, uh, in terms of infrastructure primarily, but looking at a database which is multicloud looking at storage, which is multicloud. I think that's the next layer of evolution in this entire stack. But one of the examples that are talked about in my keynote, very simple, but as, or not retest, it doesn't matter. Something that every organization wants to do is dig databases that are scattered across a multitude of on-prem or a multitude of clouds and just replicate. And to do that replication, the amount of pain that any organization needs to go through today. >>It's just like programming with magnets. Going back to my keynote where you're dealing with the technical complexities of doing this, you're talking to so many routers and switches, you're talking to firewalls, you're talking to colo providers, you're talking to cloud providers and especially every tore provider has their own compliance and configuration paradigms. So all of that being different. That's just the technical complexity within one organization. They like multitudes of teams. They have dev ops, net ops, tech ops, they all need to talk to each other. Even within Cisco we talked to our Cisco ID guys. Just dev ops is like 20 teams. There's not one team. So just imagine talking to all of those teams trying to fix this thing and trying to get just database application, simple problem like that. And then process complexity. So all of those things exist. And with NSM, all you do is say, just put me on the Santa Sam domain that lets me talk securely to every other database on the same domain, wherever they happen to be in a different cluster within the same data center or geographically somewhere else in the globe. I really don't care. And NSM basically takes care of that. So that's the simplicity that we're going after. And it's a simplicity that walks across. There are seven meshes across simple layer three problems like this across service provider use cases across a whole bunch of use cases. >>Hmm. Yeah. And it just, the simple act of moving data around you would think that we'd managed to solve that problem by now, but it turns out it's hard problem to solve and being able to connect this myriad of new services together to one why we have technologies like service mesh is changing the nature of the way we operate it. And, and as you say, putting tools in place to automate a lot of the mechanisms that go on so that we as humans don't have to do it anymore because it's just not attractive or attractable problem for the humans to deal with. And I think a lot of organizations are still wrestling with that concept of, of how they can change the way that they do things so that the humans aren't going to be able to do this. It's not actually a matter of choice. They are going to be going and having, they're going to go and do different things, new and interesting things, but they're going to be at a higher level of abstraction. And I think a lot of people are very concerned by that, that we may not have jobs anymore. No, no, no, you can't have these jobs. It is just not possible for humans to do them. We need to get you to go and do these other new jobs so that we can get on with solving these business problems. >>That's a very good problem point. And I think, uh, so prior to this role I was at Google and I ran the networking infrastructure for a while and then I ended up writing the automation and telemetry stack for running that infrastructure. And one of the things that we used to say back there was, if you are infrastructure depends on humans to scale out, then there aren't enough humans to hire. Even if you have the dollars to invest, there aren't enough humans to hire to fix that problem in a human centric way. So one of the things that we are doing at Cisco for example, is this whole push towards intent based networking. And to me that's an evolution from where SDN was to now where IBM is, because SDN has had these very specific connotations around it with said software defined separation of control and data. >>It gets into this very heated debates about what this is. To me, the answer is actually intent based networking. We did some of that back at Google as well, which is treat the entire network as a singular entity and operated in a very declarative fashion. That's what this is, regardless of whether they're built in a control data separated with all their traditional BGP networks, so we are pushing IBN in a very big way and the whole problem statement there is to your point, humans can't comprehend the complexities that arise. One one, one quick topic where we were sending telemetry data through SNMP, now we are sending telemetry data was the streaming and the amount of data that any operator receives is just through the roof. What are you going to do with it? So humans can't deal with that kind of complexity. So putting formal verification, formal models, formal closed loop automation systems with AI in place. I think that's the only way to go forward at least on large scale networks and on the other side, I think on the application side, like I said, being deep and narrow and being very selfish about the application that you're trying to connect to simplifies the problem because as an app developer I'm only concerned about this particular app and have what it connects to and that is going to attract a book from a human perspective. >>Yes. thank you so much. I think anyone that's attended this conference can definitely agree with that. There is a flood of information that no one person could keep up with. So, uh, thank you so much for joining us. We hope that, uh, your journey of network please evolve, uh, that we had comes to a successful conclusion in the near future. Absolutely. Look forward to chatting with you again soon for Justin Warren. I am Stu Miniman. Uh, stay tuned. We're going to wrap up day two, and we have a whole nother day tomorrow of our coverage here from CubeCon cloud native con 2019 in San Diego. Thank you for watching the queue.