>>From Miami beach, Florida. It's the queue covering a Chronis global cyber summit 2019 brought to you by Acronis. >>Okay. Welcome back to the cubes coverage. Everyone two days here in Miami beach at the fountain blue hotel for kronas cyber global cyber summit 2019. I'm John furrier, our next guest, Phil, she founder of structured research, do an industry analyst firm doing analysis of what's going on here. And the big story is cyber protect as a category emerging from data protection, but a lot of infrastructure going on under the knee. Phil, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. So they got this platform, but underneath the platform they got a hyper converged stack. A lot of stories, lot of networking involved, abstraction layer, platform layer to enable Cisco services. ISV is whatnot. Um, pretty compelling. And you're seeing with cloud computing, cloud 2.0 modernization. These kind of white spaces can become categories. So I kinda like the cyber protection angle. We'll see how it's kind of developed, but you got to make it work under the hood. >>What's your take of their infrastructure, the platform, what's underneath? What's, what's going on there in your opinion? >> Yeah, I mean, I look at the world from the angle of service providers or infrastructure service providers. They come in all shapes and sizes. Uh, typically the crowd here is probably what most would classify as small to mid size. And those kinds of organizations are typically challenged when it comes to resources you have, they have, uh, you know, smaller staffs, you know, less resources to acquire development talent. And so when it comes to approaching, you know, innovative products and services to drive their business, you know, they often have to look to a third party like Acronis, >> they'll talk about them. The evolution of service providers, the deputies has changed over the decades, right? I mean, Cisco Sarvis targeted service providers, what does that means and tell goats what's a, you know, MSP, managed service providers. >>So the word service providers kind of evolving as these platforms start to become more relevant. How do you, how do you, how do you shape the market? How would you talk about the evolution of what a service provider is? >> Yeah, I mean I like to think of it as infrastructure providers, infrastructure service providers. So those that are managing third party infrastructure that lives, uh, typically in some kind of off premise, not on premise environment. Uh, that's certainly a big chunk of the audience here. Uh, those people will run data centers or they'll run multiple data centers. They might run some of their own data sets and they might run some stuff on the public cloud. Uh, and then they manage that for an end user, which could be a small business, mid size enterprise or large enterprise. >> What are the top stories in that market dynamic that you're seeing involved? >>Is it IOT? Is it the SLA, is the required for latency? What are some of the dynamics going on and then that serves provided market? I mean, I think the big thing today is a boil it all down is the impact of hyperscale and what that does to market that these service providers playing. So you have hyperscale just grabbing huge chunks of the infrastructure and it real estate out there. And how that affects MSPs or service providers is that Hey, there's probably a little less market than you would have, like pre hyperscale. And so what that forces them to do is to do two things, I think, uh, which is a specialized focus, uh, and try to drive value from the infrastructure you do get to host or manage or run on, on the public cloud. So that brings the punchline here to be, you know, it's all about value add. >>What is the value add? Well, you know, this is how kind of a kronas came there. They understood that, you know, organizations that are a little more specialized like to work with service providers, they need to backup up infrastructure. They have security requirements, they have compliance requirements, and then, uh, they have to deliver that to the customer. Uh, and being able to do all that is sometimes can be difficult. But if you work with a third party like, what they've done is, you know, package that for you, hence the cyber platform so that people can basically, you know, turn the key and be able to deliver those kinds of services. And get back to focusing on what they're good at, managing customers and dealing with them. What's been the reaction, your opinion on what's happening with the crunch value proposition? Because again, like you said, these they want to differentiate ed services to around it seems like a good opportunity. >>Is it resonating well with um, infrastructure service providers? No, no, I think so because of where, as I mentioned where we are in the marketplace, you know, hyper scale is maybe 10, the public cloud, maybe 10, 12 years old. Uh, and you know, it took some time for, you know, to MSP server the feel it, uh, and now they're reacting, right? The market is changing, customer requirements, becoming more sophisticated and they're saying, Hey, listen, we've got to get out there and do something. So absolutely anything that drives value add on top of, let's call it commodity. Come on. I don't want to use that word. Plain vanilla infrastructure infrastructure. Uh, yeah, anything above value add. I mean, we saw the global service providers like Assensure and these guys doing the same thing because their days were numbered on the consultant and they're building their own sets of services. >>Why wouldn't they? I mean, it's a whole nother cloud expansion opportunity for people with expertise. Why wouldn't they want to increase their gross profits would deliver services on top of something like this. So, so I've got to ask you, um, on the, on the research section, how big is the Tam and you're in this market that, that's in there? I mean, what's it, what's a size? Is it changing? Is it shifting or is it more than saying no, it's definitely, I like to think of, you know, the world, like there's many ways to look at it. Uh, you know, some people throw around the word, sorry, the number $1 trillion a night to spending. Um, but what I like to do is look at, at least for a lot of the guys here, what they're doing is they're managing infrastructure or hosting infrastructure on a third party basis. >>And that means the customer, the end user letting go, not running it themselves in house, in server closets and their own it, their own data centers. Yeah. Uh, and in terms of going from that model, which is a traditional model to outsource infrastructure and all its flavors, you know, we're still not, you know, we use the baseball analogy. Uh, you know, we're not, we used to say that we're in the first or second any further along now, but we definitely haven't hit the seventh inning stretch. So we're middle innings, we're like middle innings of this game. I would argue maybe only the third or fourth. Anyway. Yeah. Um, and not only that, if you think so you can think of that as, Hey, if you put a number on the total value and we're only 30% of the way there, there's still all that addressable market left. >>But you also have to think about all the new workloads, content applications that are being built and created. They are invariably moving to either the public cloud or something that an MSP or a third party or third party provider would touch. So it's a big one. Yeah, it's a big market and the, and, and this channel businesses are very efficient. I was talking earlier with, with the sales guys here who runs growth, it's like they don't mess around. Like they're pretty efficient and if it works they can take it and they run with it doesn't as feedback comes back pretty quick. Yeah. So I can see MSPs liking this kind of approach. The question that I have is that, you know, the adding tier at this show, one of the top stories is they're opening up API APIs. They are doing some developer reaction questions. >>Does that develop our action translate down into like say storage and these other areas? What's your take on the ecosystem and developers specifically opportunity cause ecosystems. The nice to Acronis they have some success there. Now they have a developer piece to it. What's your assessment of that developer angle? No, absolutely. It's important, uh, because they need everybody to get together. They need the ecosystem come together to try to innovate. Uh, if you're looking at, if you're managing infrastructure, you're competing against some pretty innovative platforms. And, and we know the names of those, uh, and the resources they can put at, they can throw it that are just, they're, they're unbelievable. So smaller providers have to team up, they have to work together, they have to work in an ecosystem, you have to encourage each other. And what Kronos I think is doing a great job of is creating a venue and a platform for them to say, Hey you guys, you can be part of this channel. >>You can also work. We're going to open up our platform so that you can innovate and build cool tools that we haven't thought of of building that are specific maybe to your use case and maybe another provider can use them as well. Platforms are hard to figure out and hard to, easy to say, hard to do. But I think one of the validations that I always look for for platforms is, is there an enabling technology angle? Is there a disruptive enable that's gonna create some enablement and then true, what's the valuation value validation from an ecosystem. So I can talk platform, it's like a dance floor. How many people are on the dance floor, you know, if the music is good here, the platform's good, the ecosystem rises up and you can see it. Absolutely. That's a key thing. Feel. Take a minute to talk about the structure research. >>Okay. What do you guys do and what's your, what's your focus, um, how long you've been doing it and what do you see evolve and give a quick plug for what you're working on. Yeah, we're a eight year old firm. We were founded in 2012. Uh, we're based in Toronto. Uh, we yourself as a smaller focused, uh, boutique research firm. Uh, so we cover, uh, we don't cover multiple sectors. We covered infrastructure services, what some people call internet infrastructure, uh, but we live and breathe on a daily basis. The life of the service provider and that service provider could be one, you know, a 10 man shop that's walking around here. There are many of those all the way up to, to a Rackspace, uh, to, uh, the hyperscale clouds as well as the underlying data center infrastructure, uh, encompassing real estate facilities. You guys are laser focused absolutely. >>Service rider is what we all the vote. You know, we have six man analyst team. So yeah we only have time to focus on this. I mean, yeah, what we do is what we've taken with it is try to take a, a global approach to, so we're, we're based in North America. Uh, but we uh, we, we do a lot of research and food just feels to me, I mean I'm not in the, in the weeds of details that you guys are, cause you're laser focused on that. But Dave a lot and I always talk on the Q about how the rich are getting richer, the bigger getting bigger and it's really been sucking in the like that title waves of the beach wave from South and there's a tsunami of, of the hyperscalers dominating. But it's interesting that with the IOT opportunity you start to see him with machine learning and AI kind of really out front you seeing a Renaissance of what I call domain specific apps and services. >>And we think that this is going to create a massive innovation around what I call tier one be or two clouds. Why not build on Google, Amazon or Azure and create a unique service provider model for something that's very domain specific. I mean, that's seems like a great business opportunity. Why? I mean, it's a been a part of the space and I think more so we're headed there faster. And, and you know, to your earlier question, you know, where the impact of hyperscale cloud, how it's taken out certain parts of the more commodity parts of the business and then it's driven service riders who go to pockets of value. You know, we did a panel earlier on, you know, that featured for service providers that had decided to take a vertically focused strategy. So get into areas where their specific expertise with certain platforms or certain software packages, uh, you know, targeted that. >>And then the kind of customers they use, those have specific security and compliance requirements, certain backup NDR requirements that obviously Acronis is more than happy to enable and then these service miters deliver that. So yeah, you absolutely could see, you know, people popping up. Yeah. Doing kind of have an entire business focused on just serving the specific requirements on financial services, uh, for even the dental sector. Uh, and yeah, and they can run on, on private infrastructure, but they also can run on the public cloud. There's a lot of marketplaces popping up too. I had the Ingram micro on Amazon's got a market Wade's, Google's gonna have one. They ever going to have these marketplaces for their clouds. How does multi-cloud fit into your world? First of all, I think multicloud is just BS. Me personally, but I think everyone has multiple cloud providers. If you've upgraded with office three 65 you technically have Azure. >>It doesn't mean that you're using Azure. That's like you might have an Amazon and Google, but know people might have multiple clouds, but hybrid seems to be the operating model. How does hybrid and this hype around multi-cloud impact your research area in any way or? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, we care about how people deploy their infrastructure and we closely track how, you know, the way they do it and how those patterns change. You know, I would say I would slightly disagree. I think multicloud they starting, I would probably agree that it's not very pervasive. Yeah, it's not, it's not very pervasive, but it is a model we've tracked, uh, and sorry and uses. We've seen, uh, I have definitely, you know, taken a liking to that or at least are putting that on the roadmap and saying, Hey, listen, you know, if we're going to build, you know, most of the architectures that are being built are hybrid. >>Uh, but how w I think the question is in what way? Or how are they hybrid? Does that mean I'm running exclusively on the public cloud and running on AWS and Google for other stuff? Am I running private infrastructure on premise? And then in a private cloud and on backing that up to say the public cloud, there's so many different ways to do it. So, you know, it's interesting. Fill your brain. First of all. I agree. Well, we could debate, I love to have debates, but to me, I think you're right. I look at multicloud in terms of the hype. Hype is good, but you've always gotta be careful of it. Not over, you know, overplay their card on that. But yeah, I would see that multi-cloud basically to me is multi-vendor. I've got I got it. So as that shakes out, that's going to be an operational dynamic. >>And I think that's going to be interesting to see how a company will operationalize their tech stacks to deal with the multi-vendor or multi-cloud case because the workload shouldn't care. Ideally, if it's true multi-cloud, none of my workload, I mean she should run right. And so I haven't seen a lot of that across multiple clouds and some peoples have use case analytics. I get that. But like running a workload on any cloud, probably not there yet. Not there yet. All right. What's the coolest, coolest thing that you're covering right now that you think is important for folks to know that in your space, what's the top burning issues of your sector? Yeah, I mean, I would say that, you know, just the global build out of the cloud, the hyperscale clouds, you know, that short list of very big platforms. He's going, you know, global at a rapid speed. >>Uh, and also just the pace at which they are expanding is just incredible. And that's not just the infrastructure but also just the product and service development. Just the tool sets have gone from dozens to hundreds to probably thousands. You know, as we're speaking right now, just the pace at which this is growing is just, you know, pretty tough to comprehend and it's tough to comprehend because not that long ago we were debating, you know, what is the cloud? Or yeah, running, I as, yeah, I'm running a few things on the cloud, but now people are making much bigger bets. There are businesses now out there that you use on your phone that are run completely on the cloud. I mean, that's, that's big. And I mean, just go back with the, has been around for 10 years riding this wave and covering it. Remember OpenStack? Yeah, of course. >>Hold up a second. Just a hyperscaler just blew that away, just, and then found his place. No, that's just crazy. Great time. Yeah. And I think it's, it's, it's the, you're right, the, the pace at which things are changing is incredible. And we're, the other thing, you know, to answer my second part to the question was not only going to, we're following the global buildup, but at the same time almost kind of paradoxically, like we're talking now and I think it's a really exciting part of RV searches. He's the edge. So the decentralization, you know, everything is building out really rapidly into the, you know, compute as an it infrastructure is consolidate around centralized locations, you know, but now how do we hit mobile eyeballs are eyeballs in kind of more distant locations. And so yeah, edge infrastructure or the decentralization, uh, is we're really excited about, I think edge is beautiful thing. >>It's gonna open up. And by the way, we were talking last night, bunch of the sales guys here, I always like to debate them. Their edge is a box, but there's the deeper edge. There's also deep edge or outer edge, right? This human's right. So there's edge edge, so it's just so many surface points now. It's just manageable challenge. Yeah, there's edge on a kind of like on a geographic basis and then there's edge, you know, how close to the user's device can you get. And that device may not be static. Right. They'll be moving around. So yeah. Well, Phil, thanks for the great insight of structured research. Is there a URL for your site? Yes. Structure research.net structured research.net check it out. Hyper focused on service providers and infrastructure. Super important area as the clouds continue to grow as hybrid multicloud. Certainly IOT is going industrial IOT from national security and physical security to digital security. All big a part of it. Data as the pay is going to be there. Storage and compute. Phil, thanks for coming. I appreciate it. Thanks for having coverage here. Miami beach. I'm John furrier back with more coverage after this short break.

>> Live from the Julia Morgan Ballroom in San Francisco. Extracting the signal from the noise, it's TheCUBE. Covering Structure 2015. Now your host, George Gilbert. >> This is George Gilbert, we're at Structure 2015. Reborn and really healthy from the old GigaOM, and we're pleased to welcome Alex Polvi from CoreOS, everyone seems to want to talk to Alex these days. So we've got first dibs. Alex why don't you tell us a little bit about CoreOS and why it's of such relevance right now. >> Sure, so we started CoreOS a little over two years ago, about two and a half years ago now. And our mission is to fundamentally improve the security of the internet. And our approach in doing that is to help companies run infrastructure in this way that allows it to be much more serviceable and have much better security and so on. This way that we're modeling looks a lot like what we've seen from the hyperscale companies. Folks like Google. So we often call it Google's Infrastructure For Everyone Else, GIFFY for short 'cause that's kind of a mouthful. And that involves distributed systems, containers, and running on standard hardware which in 2015 can be a bare-metal server, or could be an instance in AWS. >> Okay. So help us understand though that, if CoreOS, it sounds like there's an operating system at the core. >> Yeah. >> Is this like a cut down version of Linux that gives it a small attack surface and a sort of easier deployment and patching? >> Exactly, so in our quest to run the world servers to secure the internet we start at the lowest level component possible. There's the OS, then there's the distributed system side. So CoreOS is our company name, but it's also the name of the first product that we released, CoreOS Linux. CoreOS Linux is a lightweight container-based OS that automatically updates itself, 'cause we think that updates are the key to good security. So it's a combination of the updates, the container weight, the lightweight container-based application model. As well as just stripping everything else out. I mean the last 20 years of Linux distributions have created lots of cruft so it was time to kind of rebirth a new lightweight Linux OS. >> Sticking to CoreOS >> Yeah. >> For a moment, in an earlier era, might we have called this like an embedded OS where you just sort of chopped out everything that was not necessary for the application? >> Yeah, it's very much inspired by embedded OSes. On servers you know, you really want to get everything out of the way of the resources like the memory and CPU and so on so you get as much as you want out of it. So while it's a little bit counterintuitive, you have this really monster server, you still want as light and thin of an OS on there as you possibly can like an embedded OS so you can really maximize the performance. >> So something that abstracts the hardware but gets out of the way. >> Exactly. Just focus, get on the things that matter which is running your applications and managing the actual hardware and really nothing else. >> Okay, so, presumably to provide Google's infrastructure for everyone else, and I don't remember the acronym, >> GIFFY. >> Okay. What other products did you have to fill out to make that possible? >> Sure, great question. So the next major piece that we released is a tool called ETCD. It's meant for doing shared configuration amongst servers. Whenever you have a group of servers, the first thing you need to do is they all need to know about each other, and tell each other about the configuration. This is load balancers knowing where the app servers are, the app servers knowing where the databases are and so on. And to do this in the most robust distributed systems way, you have to do this thing in computer science that's very difficult called "consensus". Consensus algorithms is an area of computing, actually speaking about here in a little bit with Eric Brewer, who is a huge academic, a very well respected engineer in the area of consenus and distributed systems. And so we built ETCD, which solves this really hard distributed systems problem in a way that's usable by many operations teams. >> So let me just interrupt you for a second, >> Yeah. >> I mean I've got this sound going off in my head that says "Zookeeper, Zookeeper". >> Exactly. It's Zookeeper for everyone else. >> It's simplified. >> It's a simplified Zookeeper and make it accessible. Areas that a lot of people wanted to use distributed systems but Zookeeper is a little bit too difficult to use as well as really oriented toward the Java and Hadoop community, and there's a whole wide array of other folks out there. >> So it couldn't make as many constraining assumptions as yours, which would simplify. >> It just couldn't be as widely adopted. And so we released ETCD around the same time we released CoreOS Linux and this point, there's been over a thousand projects if you go on GitHub that have built things around ETCD, so our bet was right. Even things like Kubernetes, itself has a hard dependency on ETCD. Without ETCD, Kupernetes will not run. So our hypothesis there was let's make the hardest part of distributed systems easier, and then we will see distributed systems overall accelerate. And that is definitely what's happened with ETCD. >> Okay so help us understand, how you've built up the rest of the infrastructure and then where you'd like to see it go. >> Sure, so the thing that we're targeting is this distributed systems approach. And again we care about this a lot because we think that the ability to manage and service your applications, is what is the key to the security. Keeping things up to date, and when we mean up to date, we don't just mean like patch a vulnerability. Of which we've fixed many of those. But it's also about company's comfort rolling out a new version of their application that they won't break something. If you run your infrastructure in a distributed system, you can roll out a version, if it breaks a little bit of the application that's okay, but you didn't take the whole thing down. And that's kind of the safety net that distributed systems give you. >> Does this require the sort of micro-service approach where there's a clean separation between this new set of bits and the rest of the app? >> It really does. And that's why we've invested so heavily in containers. It requires a container, it also requires the distributed systems components of it. So we first built CoreOS Linux, then we built ETCD, then we started building some distributed systems work very early in the market. And then things like Kubernetes came along, and we were like, "Hey, instead of us reinventing all of this stuff let's partner up with the guys from the Google" if we're monitoring Google's infrastructure for everyone else, let's partner up with the team at Google that built that and get their solution more widely adopted out in the world as well. So the whole platform comes together as this combination of Kubernetes, ETCD, CoreOS Linux, we have our own container runtime called Rocket, which we built primarily to address some security issues in Docker. And so all of these pieces come together and what we call that piece when they're all together is Tectonic. Tectonic is our product that is that Google's infrastructure in a box. >> Okay let me just drop down in the weed for a sec. Derek Collison calls, I'm sorry I'm having a senior moment. And I hope it's not early onset Alzheimer's. The Docker, he calls sort of this generation's Tarball, you know, like to distribute you know, just a sort of I guess equivalent of an executable. Are you providing something that's compatible or does what's inside the container have to change to take advantage of the additional services that's sort of Google-centric. >> Sure. So the packaging, that Tarball piece, we're compatible with. And will always remain compatible with. To even further the compatibility, we've put together standards around what that container should be so many vendors can inter-operate more widely. We've done that first through the app container project and then more recently through the open container initiative which is a joint effort between Docker and us, and the rest of the ecosystem. And so we always, we always want the user to be able to package their application once and then choose whatever system they want to run it in, and the container is what really unlocks that portability. >> Okay. So then let me ask you, does the Google compute engine folks, or the passgroup, do they view you as a way of priming the pump outside the Google ecosystem to get others using their sort of application model or their infrastructure model? Because I'm trying to understand, you know Azure sort of has its own way of looking at the world, Amazon has its own way of looking at the world, are they looking at you as a way of sort of disseminating an approach to building applications? Or managing applications. >> Sure. So the Google team and their motivations behind Kubernetes, you'd have to talk to them about it. My understanding is that they see that as a way to have a very consistent environment between different cloud providers and so on. It is a next-generation way of running infrastructure as well, and its just better than the previous way of running infrastructure. >> That's sort of the answer I was looking for which is, they don't have to either give away their stuff or manage their infrastructure elsewhere. But you're sort of the channel to deliver Google style infrastructure in other environments. >> Sure, I mean Google Cloud's motivation at the end of the day is selling cores of memory. They put all these other services on top of it to make it, to make it more attractive to use, but the end of the day anything that drives more usage of these products is how they run their business. At least that's my perception of it. I'm obviously not speaking on behalf of Google. >> So where are you in attracting showcase customers? Guys who've sort of said "okay we'll bet", if not the entire business, "we'll bet the success of this application or these set of applications on this". >> Right, so first the technology's been very, very exciting. I mean the past two years we've seen this whole space explode in interest, but the discussion around "how does this solve business problems, how does this actually get adopted to these companies and what motivates them to actually do this" outside of the tech being very cool. That's a discussion that is just getting started and in fact in about two weeks here in early December in New York we're hosting that discussion at an event called the Tectonic Summit. The Tectonic Summit is where we're bringing together all the enterprise early adopters that are using containers, using distributed systems, and talking about why did their management and their leadership decide to make investments in these technologies. And what we're seeing are use cases about multi-data center between your physical data center and your cloud environments. We're seeing folks build their next-generation web services. Many businesses that weren't traditionally in the web services businesses need to be now because of mobile, just modern product offerings. And so we're hearing from these large guys and how they're using our technologies and other companies' technologies today to do this, and it's just two weeks at our event. >> Would it be fair to say, I'm listening to this and what seems to becoming across is that your technology makes it easier to abstract not just the machine, which would be CoreOS, but hybrid infrastructure. And it doesn't even have to be hybrid, it could be this data center and that data center. >> Right. >> Or your own data center and a public cloud. >> Exactly. One of the biggest value props of all this is the consistency between environments. We just give this compute, CPUs, memory, storage, we don't care if it's on cloud or if it's a physical data center, we can allow you to manage that in an extremely consistent way. Not just between your data centers but also between development and production, and that's a really important part of all of this. >> Do you need a point of view built into the infrastructure to make it palatable to developers who want a platform? As opposed to just infrastructure. >> Sure. So one of the things that's most exciting about this space is we're splitting the difference of platform and infrastructure. Platform is typically, platform is a service, this very prescriptive way of running your server infrastructure. And there's raw infrastructure which is a like, "here is a canvas, go to town but you need to bring all your own tools". What's happening right now in this distributed systems container space is a middle category. It's still infrastructure, but it's application focused. And at the end of the day that's what a developer is trying to do, is deploy their application out into the server infrastructure. >> So it doesn't have an opinion that tells the developer "we think you should build it this way", but it does hide all the sort of, the different types of hardware and their location pretty much. >> Right, it gives you a prescriptive way to how you package and deploy that, but doesn't put on any constraints of what you can package or deploy. >> Okay. Very interesting. It's sort of like a, if platform as a service was constraining because developers didn't want a straightjacket for how they should build the app, and infrastructures, our service was too raw. You're giving them a middle ground. >> Exactly. It's still infrastructure, but it's a consistent way of running that infrastructure. And that's why companies like Google and Facebook and Twitter do this, they have millions of servers and data centers all over the world. >> And they can't prescribe. >> Well they need to be able to have a consistent way of doing it so that they don't have to have an infinitely growing operations team as they scale their infrastructure. You need to have consistency, but at the same time you need to be able to have a wide array of tools and things to deploy and interact with that infrastructure. So it's that middle ground, and that's why the hyperscale guys have adopted it because they're forced to, because they have to have that consistency to have that scale. >> Okay let me ask you then, not on the, separate from the hyperscale guys, the sort of newest distributed system that mainstream enterprises are struggling with and sort of off the record, maybe choking on, you know is Hadoop. Because they haven't had to do elastic infrastructure before and like you said the Zookeeper is not that easy, and there's 22 other projects by the way that also have to get stood up. Can you help someone who is perhaps flailing in that or if not flailing, finding the skills overhead really, really tough? >> So, Hadoop. Let's remember Hadoop's roots. Where did that come from? >> Well Yahoo!. >> Well but where did Yahoo! get the idea? >> Oh yeah, Google, sorry. >> Exactly. Yahoo! gets all the credit for it. Even though it was a Google paper that was modeled after. And so again, if Kubernetes and containers and everything is the equivalent of Google's borg, which is that raw application infrastructure, Hadoop is a certain application that consumes the spare resources on that cluster in order to do these map reducing computational jobs. >> So the next question is, how much can you simplify what mainstream enterprises do that don't have the Google infrastructure yet? >> Right, so they have to manage that as its own whole separate thing. It's its own set of infrastructure, it's its own set of servers to manage their Hadoop cluster. If you combine it with this application infrastructure, we just treat Hadoop as another application that runs on the platform. It's not its own distinct, special thing. It's just another application running out there along with your web servers and your databases, and everything else, you have your Hadoop workload in the mix. So you have this consistent pool of infrastructure and Hadoop is just another application that's monitored or managed the exact same way as everything else. >> So, for folks who are a little more familiar with Mesos, which is the opposite of a virtual machine, it makes many machines look like a single one, I assume. >> Well this is a very similar message to Mesos. Mesos is also building Google-like infrastructure for everyone else. The difference with what we're doing is really we just partnered up with the team that built that at Google, and focusing our solution around Kubernetes which is what the Google efforts are behind. So we're all modeling Google's infrastructure. >> Okay. >> Mesos took their own spin on it with Kubernetes, and CoreOS and ETCD, we're taking a different spin on it. >> So and what other products have you built out that we haven't touched on, and what do you see the roadmap looking like? >> Sure, so really, all these things we've talked about are open source projects. They're all components for building this Google-like infrastructure. Tectonic is our platform for companies that want this style of infrastructure but they don't want to have to figure out all the different pieces themselves. And we think once companies adopt Tectonic, just this general style of infrastructure, that we can give them all the benefits of this, better utilization, that consistency, easier management of lots and lots of servers and so on. But we also think we can dramatically improve the security of their infrastructure as well. And that's what we're investing in our roadmap is to leverage this kind of change, and then with that change we can do some things to the infrastructure that was never possible before. >> Okay. >> And that's the things that we're investing in as a company. >> Okay, great. We're going to break at that, this is George Gilbert, at Structure '15, with Alex Polvi of CoreOS. And we'll be back in just a few minutes. (light music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to Commvault Connections. My name is Dave Vellante, and we're going to dig into the changing security landscape and look specifically at ransomware and what steps organizations can take to better protect their data, their applications and their people. As you know cyber threats continue to escalate. In the past 19 months, we've seen a major shift in CISO strategies, tactics and actions as a direct result of the trend toward remote work, greater use of the cloud and the increased sophistication of cyber criminals. In particular, we've seen a much more capable well-funded and motivated adversary than we've ever seen before, stealthy techniques like living off the land, island hopping through the digital supply chain, self-forming malware and escalations in ransomware attacks, necessitate vigilant responses. And we're super pleased today to be joined by Dave Martin who's a global chief security officer at ADP. Dave, welcome, good to see you. >> Thanks for having me today. >> It's our pleasure. Okay, let's get right into it, it's a great topic. I mean, ADP, we're talking about people's money. I mean, it doesn't get more personal and sensitive than that, maybe healthcare, but money is right there on the priority list. But maybe you could start by telling us a bit about your role at the company, how you fit into the organization with your colleagues, like the the CIO, the CDO, maybe describe that a bit if you would. >> Yeah, absolutely. So we're somewhat unusual and both structure and we, one of the ways is we are, I have a very converged organization. So my responsibility extends from both the physical protection of kind of buildings, our associates, travel safety through fraud that we see in attempted in our products all the way through to a more traditional chief security officer in the cyberspace. And the other thing that's a little bit unusual is rather than reporting into a technology organization. I actually report into our chief administrative officer. So my peers in that organization are legal compliance. So it's a great position to be in the organization. And I've had various different reports during my career. And there's always a lot of debate with my peers about where's the best place to report and I think they always come back to, it's not really where you report, it's about those relationships that you mentioned. So how do you actually collaborate and work with the chief data officer, the CIO, the head of product, the product organization, and how do you use that to create this kind of very dynamic angel force to defend against the threats we face today? >> Yeah, now, so let's just want to clarify for the audience. So when you talk about that converged structure, oftentimes if I understand what your point is that the network team might be responsible for some of the physical security or the network security, that's all under sort of one roof in your organization, is that correct? >> So a lot of the controls and operations, something like firewalls is out in the CIO organization, but the core responsibility and accountability, whether it's protecting the buildings, the data centers, the data in our applications, the kind of the back office of all the services that we use to deliver value to our clients and kind of the same things that everyone has, the ERP environments now, all of that, protecting those environments rolls up to my team from an accountability and governance business. >> Got it, so, I mean, as I was saying upfront, I mean the acceleration, we all talk about that acceleration that compression, the force marched to digital that SolarWinds hack. It was like a Stuxnet moment to me 'cause it's signaled almost this new level of escalation by cyber criminals and that had send a shockwave through your community, I wonder you could, if you could talk about at a high level, how did that impact the way that CISOs think about cyber attacks or did it? >> I think we're very used to watching the outside world kind of adversaries don't stand still our businesses don't stand still, so we're constantly having to evolve. So it's just another call to action. How do we think about what we just saw and then how do we kind of realign the controls that we have and then how do we think about our program going forward that we need to address? >> Yeah, so we've seen, when we talk to other CISOs, your colleagues, they tell us, we've made a big sort of budget allocation toward endpoint security, cloud, identity access management and obviously focus on a flatter network. And of course, ransomware, how have you shifted priorities as a result of sort of the last, the pandemic 19 months? >> Yeah, we're definitely seeing that shift in kind of the necessity of working from home and we are kind of thinking by what tools do we need to get to our associates to really make them successful. And then also keep the integrity of our data and the availability of our services in that new model. And so we've made that shift in technology and controls, reinforced a lot of things that we already had. One thing thinking about the supply chain change that we saw out of SolarWinds is thinking about ransomware defense prior to that was very much around aligning the defenses within the perimeter of your network within the cloud environments. And I really thinking about where do I outside that environment where do I exchange files from, what connectivity do I have with partners and suppliers? What services do they provide to support us as an enterprise? And what's going to happen if they're not there at a minimum but then what happens if they had some kind of attack that can actually drive some of this malware and spread into the network or via some of those file transfer, make sure we'd really sure shored up the controls in that area but the response is actually part of that. How am I going to react when I hear from even a client, we're a very customer service focused company, we want to do whatever we can to help. And the instinct of one of our frontline associates say, Hey, send me that Excel file, I'll take care of it. So now yet we still want to help that client through, but we want to think through a little bit more before we start sharing an office file back and forth between two environments, one of which we know to be confident. >> Right, that's interesting what you're saying about the change in just focus on the perimeter to the threats within, without et cetera, because you don't even need a high school degree or diploma to be a ransomware attacker these days, you could go on the dark web. And if you're a bad, bad person, you can hire ransomware as a service. If you have access to a server credentials, you can do bad things and hopefully you'll end up in handcuffs, but that's a legitimate threat today, which is relatively new in the way in which people are escalating, whether it's crypto ransoms, et cetera, really do necessitate new thinking around or ransomware. So I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about the layered approach that you might take, the air gapping, be interested to understand where Commvault fits in to the portfolio, if you will. >> Sure and really it's thinking about this in depth. You're not going to be able to protect or recover everything so really understand, first of all, that if what is most important to be able to maintain service, what data do you do you need to protect and have available, armed with that now you can go through the rest of the NIST Cybersecurity Framework, the main thing you're doing the best for prevention, for the detection and response in that area. And then you kind of really interesting when we get to the recovery phase, both from a Commvault perspective and in many attacks where we really want to focus on prevention, but ultimately we'll likely to see a scenario even in some small part of our environment, where some kind of attack is effective and now we're back at that recovery step. And we don't want that to be the first time we're testing those backgrounds, we don't want to be the first time that we figured out that those backups have been on the network the whole time, and they can't be used for recovery. So partnering with everyone in the environment we talk about it takes a village to defend against this kind of threat, getting everyone engaged, the experts in each of these fields to make sure that we're thinking they understand this threat and how real it is and what their role is going to be in setting up that protection and defense, and then come that dark day that we all hope will never happen, when do you need them? When do you need them to be doing so that you can get back to a restoration and effective operation point as soon as possible. >> Yeah, hope for the best plan for the worst. So it's a big part of that is education. And of course the backup corpus is an obvious target because everything's in there. But before we get into sort of the best practice around that, I wanted to ask you about your response because one of the things that we've seen is that response is increasingly have to be stealthy so that you don't necessarily alert the attackers that you know that they're inside. Is that sort of a new trend and how do you approach that? >> Yeah, I mean, it's always a balance depending on the type of data and the type of attack as to kind of how can violent and swift. And obviously you have to be able to protect the environment, protect the integrity of the data, and then also balance again this kind of tipping off the attacker which could potentially make things worse. So always a conversation depending on the different threat type, you're going to have to go through. And it really helps to have some of those conversations up front, to have tabletops, not just at a technical level, to make sure that you're walking through the steps of a response to make it as seamless and quick and effective as possible, but also having that conversation with leadership team and even the board around the kind of decisions they're going to have to make and make sure that you wherever possible use scenarios to figure out what are some of those actions that are likely to be taken and also empower some teams. It's really important to be able to act autonomously and quickly, you don't want to be at 2:00 AM kind of looking for the CEO or kind of the executive team to get them out there to make a decision. Some of these decisions need to be made very quickly and very effectively, and you can only do that with empowered upfront and sometimes even automated processes to do them. >> Dave, describe what you mean by tabletops. I presume you're talking to a top-down view versus sort of being in the weeds but add some color to that please. >> Yeah, definitely it literally is kind of getting everyone around the table and at ADP at least once per year, we actually get the full executive team together and challenge them with a scenario, making sure that they're working through the problem. They know what each of their roles are at the table. And I am lucky to have a fantastic leadership team. We're actually very practiced. We've done this often enough now that they really pull apart really hard problems and think about what that decision is going to mean to me, so come that dark day, if it ever does, they're not kind of challenged by the never thought, they don't know, they've understand the technical background of why being asked to make the decision or the limitations of what their responses may be. >> So a lot of people and process goes into this always the case, but let's talk a little bit about the tech, I mentioned the backup Corpus is an obvious target before, what are some of the best tech practices in terms of protecting, whether it's that backup corpus, other data, air gaps, maybe you could give us some guidance on that front. >> Sure, we're not going to be able to protect everything. So focus on those favorite children is the best advice up front to think about the the critical components that enable you to bring things up, easy to go focus on that critical data and that most important app that everyone in the company understands. But all of that and cannot even start if you don't have the foundation, the network's not up and running, the authentication services is not up and running. So it's good to get a focus in some elements and practice on technical tabletop setting of how do you go through recovering an active directory forest back to a known, trusted state? Because that's one of the foundations you're going to need to build anything else back up on. On the backup side is make sure that you don't use the same credentials that your backup administrators use everyday, ensure there's only the smallest number of people have access to be able to control the backpacks, if at all possible and Commvault and many backup solutions, now make sure they're using a second-factor authentication to be able to get into those systems, and also make sure that some of the backups that you have are kind of offline, air gaps can be touched. And then also you think about the duration. You talked about the attackers being very smart and determine, they know how enterprises prepare and respond. So think about how long you're retaining them and where you're retaining some of the backups, not just incremental as to be able to fully restore a system, basically from bare metal or from that climate. >> And you're using Commvault software to manage some of this capability, is that right? I'm sure you have a bevy of tooling. >> Yeah, we have a wide range of tooling but yeah we are a certainly a combo farmer, >> And somebody said, a consultant said to me today Dave, I'm thinking about advising my clients that their air gap process should be air gapped. In other words, they should have sort of a separate remote removed from the mainstream process just for extra protection and I was like, okay, that's kind of interesting, but at the same time then do they have the knowledge to get back to a low RPO state? What do you think about about that approach? >> So the challenges of any kind of recovery and control design is like making sure that you're not making things overly complex and introducing other issues and also other exposures, if you're moving out of your normal control environment, that you have a 24 by 7, 365 set of monitoring, the more creative you get your plans are in danger of kind of having control erosion and visibility to that other state. But it is really important to think about, even at the communication level is in this kind of attack, you may not be able to rely on email, kind of Teams, all the common services that you have. So how are you actually going to communicate with this village it's going to take to recover, to be able to work through the process. So that's definitely an area that I would advocate for having offline capabilities to be able to have people react, gather, respond, plan and control the recovery even though the main enterprise may not be currently. >> I wonder if I could pick your brain on another topic, which is zero trust prior to the pandemic. A lot of times people would roll their eyes like it's a buzzword but it's kind of become a mandate where people are now talking about eliminating credentials to talking about converging identity access management, and governance and privilege access management. I mean, what are those some of the sea changes you see around so-called zero trust. >> Yeah, I think kind of zero trust has become that kind of call-to-action buzzword. These concepts that are embodied in zero trust journey are ones that have been around for forever and least privilege and it's how we think about you can't go buy a product that I like I'm just implemented zero trust. How do you think strategically about where you take your starting point and then go on this journey to kind of increase the various tools that start to limit, improve the segmentation not only from a network standpoint, from a service standpoint, from an identity standpoint and make sure you're embracing concepts like persona so that you start to break up the, may not get to zero trust anytime soon, but you're able to get less and less trust in that model. And to think about it in many different worlds, think about your product access. If you're a service provider company like we are, as well as kind of the internal employee context. So there is many elements, it's a complex journey. It's not something you're going to buy off the shelf and go implement but it's one that you're going to have to again partner with those other stakeholders that you have because there's user experience and client experience components of this journey, some of which are actually quite positive. You mentioned passwordless as one of those components in the gym certainly something that actually has a better user experience and also can offer a better security and freedom from the traditional passwords that you've come to love to hate. >> Dave, I know you're tight on time. I got two more questions for you. One is what is the CISO's number one challenge. >> Wow, that's getting enough sleep, now, really is, just staying hard with that business environment, that threat environment and the available tool sets and making sure that we're constantly working with those partners that we keep describing to chat that course to the future so that we're, this is a race that doesn't have a finish line. The marathon gets a little bit longer every year and bringing my peers on and making them understand that it's easy to get fatigued and say, ah, we thought we were done when we when we finished this initiative. It's just keeping everyone's energy up and focus on a very long mode. >> One A in that question if I may is many organizations lack the talent to be able to do that. You may not, you may have a firmer, but the industry as a whole really lacks the skills and the talent, and really, that's why they're looking to automation. How acute do you see that talent shortage? >> It's definitely there. And I think it's important to realize the back to that village concept, everybody has a play here. So what is a smaller available talent born in the security industry is we've really got to be that call-to-action, we've got to explain why this is important. We've got to be the consultants that kind of lead through what changes are we going to need to make to be successful? It's tempting to say, oh, they'll never do that. They're like, we've got to do it ourselves. We will never be successful. And just being the security team that tries to do everything, it's bringing everyone along for the journey. And part of that is just going to be this constant socialization and education of what they need to do and why it's so important. And then you really will build a great partnership. >> My last question, I was kind of been keeping a list of Dave's best practice. I saw obviously the layered approach, you want to get to that NIST framework. There's a lot of education involved. You've got to partner with your colleagues, the tabletops, executive visibility. So everybody knows what their role is, kind of the do your job, you've got to build zero trust. You can't just buy zero trust off the shelf and so that was my kind of quick list. Am I missing anything? >> I think that's pretty good. And then just in that partnership this is a tiring kind of hard thing to do and kind of just bringing everyone along, they can help you do so much, especially if you explained to them how it's going to make that product better, how it's going to make that client experience better, how it's going to make the CIO, the internal associate experience better, that this isn't just about adding friction into an already challenging environment. >> Like frontline healthcare workers, the SecOps pros are heroes day-to-day, you don't necessarily hear a lot about the work they're doing but Dave we really appreciate you coming on and sharing some of the best practices. And thank you for the great work that you guys are doing out there and best of luck. >> Thanks for the exchange, it has been a pleasure. >> All right, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, keep it right there. (upbeat music)

from around the globe it's thecube with coverage of kubecon and cloudnativecon north america 2020 virtual brought to you by red hat the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners hello and welcome back to the cube's coverage of kubecon plus cloud nativecon 2020 the virtual edition abinav joshi is here he's the senior product marketing manager for openshift at red hat and tom dean is the senior director of pro product management at cloudera gentlemen thanks for coming on thecube good to see you thank you very much for having us here hey guys i know you would be here it was great to have you and guys i know you're excited about the partnership and i definitely want to get in and talk about that but before we do i wonder if we could just set the tone you know what are you seeing in the market tom let's let's start with you i had a great deep dive a couple of weeks back with anupam singh and he brought me up to speed on what's new with cloudera but but one of the things we discussed was the accelerated importance of data putting data at the core of your digital business tom what are you seeing in the marketplace right now yeah absolutely so um overall we're still seeing a growing demand for uh storing and and processing massive massive amounts of data even in the past few months um where perhaps we see a little bit more variety is on by industry sector is on the propensity to adopt some of the latest and greatest uh technologies that are out there or that we we deliver to the market um so whether perhaps in the retail hospitality sector you may see a little bit more risk aversion around some of the latest tools then you you go to the healthcare industry as an example and you see we see a strong demand for our latest technologies uh with with everything that is that is going on um so overall um still a lot lots of demand around this space so abnormal i mean we just saw in ibm's earnings though the momentum of red hat you know growing in the mid teens and the explosion that we're seeing around containers and and obviously openshift is at the heart of that how the last nine months affected your customers priorities and what are you seeing yeah we've been a lot more busier like in the last few months because there's like a lot of use cases and if you look at the like a lot of the research and so on and we are seeing that from our customers as well that now the customers are actually speeding up the digital transformation right people say that okay kovac 19 has actually uh speeded up the digital transformation for a lot of our customers for the right reasons to be able to help the customers and so on so we are seeing a lot of attraction on like number of verticals and number of use cases beyond the traditional lab dev data analytics aiml messaging streaming edge and so on like lots of use cases in like a lot of different like industry verticals so there's a lot of momentum going on on openshift and the broader that portfolio as well yeah it's ironic the the timing of the pandemic but it sure underscores that this next 10 years is going to be a lot different than the last 10 years okay let's talk about some of the things that are new around data tom cloudera you guys have made a number of moves since acquiring hortonworks a little over two years ago what's new with uh with the cloudera data platform cdp sure so yes our latest therap uh platform is called cbp clara data platform last year we announced the public cloud version of cdp running on aws and then azure and what's new is just two months ago we announced the release of the version of this platform targeted at the data center and that's called cvp private cloud and really the focus of this platform this new version has been around solving some of the pain points that we see around agility or time to value and the ease of use of the platform and to give you some specific examples with our previous technology it could take a customer three months to provision a data warehouse if you include everything from obtaining the infrastructure to provisioning the warehouse loading the data setting security policies uh and fine-tuning the the software now with cbp private cloud we've been able to take those uh three months and turn it into three minutes so significant uh speed up in in that onboarding time and in time to valley and a key piece of this uh that enabled this this speed up was a revamping of the entire stack specifically the infrastructure and service services management layer and this is where the containerization of the platform comes in specifically kubernetes and red hat open shift that is a key piece of the puzzle that enables this uh order of magnitude uh improvement in time right uh now abner you think about uh red hat you think about cloudera of course hortonworks the stalwarts of of of open source you got kind of like birds of a feather how are red hat and cloudera partnering with each other you know what are the critical aspects of that relationship that people should be aware of yeah absolutely that's a very good question yeah so on the openshift side we've had a lot of momentum in the market and we have well over 2000 customers in terms of a lot of different verticals and the use cases that i talked about at the beginning of our conversation in terms of traditional and cloud native app dev databases data analytics like ai messaging and so on right and the value that you have with openshift and the containers kubernetes and devops like part of the solution being able to provide the agility flexibility scalability the cross cloud consistency like so all that that you see in a typical app dev world is directly applicable to fast track the data analytics and the ai projects as well and we've seen like a lot of customers and some of the ones that we can talk about in a public way like iix rbc bank hca healthcare boston children's bmw exxon mobil so all these organizations are being are able to leverage openshift to kind of speed up the ai projects and and help with the needs of the data engineers data scientists and uh and the app dev folks now from our perspective providing the best in class uh you say like experience for the customers at the platform level is key and we have to make sure that the tooling that the customers run on top of it uh gets the best in class the experience in terms of the day zero to day two uh management right and it's uh and and it's an ecosystem play for us and and and that's the way cloudera is the top isv in the space right when it comes to data analytics and ai and that was our key motivation to partner with cloudera in terms of bringing this joint solution to market and making sure that our customers are successful so the partnership is at all the different levels in the organization say both up and down as well as in the the engineering level the product management level the marketing level the sales level and at the support and services level as well so that way if you look at the customer journey in terms of selecting a solution uh putting it in place and then getting the value out of it so the partnership it actually spans across the entire spectrum yeah and tom you know i wonder if you could add anything there i mean it's not just about the public cloud with containers you're seeing obviously the acceleration of of cloud native principles on-prem in a hybrid you know across clouds it's sort of the linchpin containers really and kubernetes specifically linchpin to enable that what would you add to that discussion yeah as part of the partnership when we were looking for a vendor who could provide us that kubernetes layer we looked at our customer base and if you think about who clara is focused on we really go after that global the global 2000 firms out there these customers have very strict uh security requirements and they're often in these highly regulated uh industries and so when we looked at a customer's base uh we saw a lot of overlap and there was a natural good fit for us there but beyond that just our own technical evaluation of the solutions and also talking to uh to our own customers about who they do they see as a trusted platform that can provide enterprise grade uh features on on a kubernetes layer red hat had a clear leadership in in that front and that combined with our own uh long-standing relationship with our parent company ibm uh it made this partnership a natural good thing for us right and cloudera's always had a good relationship with ibm tom i want to stay with you if i can for a minute and talk about the specific joint solutions that you're providing with with red hat what are you guys bringing to customers in in terms of those solutions what's the business impact where's the value absolutely so the solution is called cbd or color data platform private cloud on red hat openshift and i'll describe three uh the three pillars that make up cbp uh first what we have is the five data analytic experiences and that is meant to cover the end to end data lifecycle in the first release we just came out two months ago we announced the availability of two of those five experiences we have data warehousing for bi analytics as well as machine learning and ai where we offer a collaborative data science data science tools for data scientists to come together do exploratory data analytics but also develop predictive models and push them to production going forward we'll be adding the remaining three uh experiences they include data engineering or transformations on uh on your data uh data flow for streaming analytics and ingest uh as well as operational database for uh real-time surveying of both structure and unstructured data so these five experiences have been re-banked right compared to our prior platform to target these specific use cases and simplify uh these data disciplines the second pillar that i'll talk about is the sdx or uh what what we call the shared data experience and what this is is the ability for these five experiences to have one global data set that they can all access with shared metadata security including fine grain permissions and a suite of governance tools that provide lineage provide auditing and business metadata so by having these shared data experiences our developers our users can build these multi-disciplinary workflows in a very straightforward way without having to create all this custom code and i can stitch you can stitch them together and the last pillar that i'll mention uh is the containerization of of the platform and because of containers because of kubernetes we're now able to offer that next level of agility isolation uh and infrastructure efficiency on the platform so give you a little bit more specific examples on the agility i mentioned going from three months to three minutes in terms of the speed up with i uh with uh containers we can now also give our users the ability to bring their own versions of their libraries and engines without colliding with another user who's sharing the platform that has been a big ask from our customers and last i'll mention infrastructure efficiency by re-architecting our services to running a microservices architecture we can now impact those servers in a much more efficient way we can also auto scale auto suspend bring all this as you mentioned bring all these cloud native concepts on premises and the end result of that is better infrastructure efficiency now our customers can do more with the same amount of hard work which overall uh reduces their their total spend on the solution so that's what we call cbp private cloud great thanks for that i mean wow we've seen really the evolution from the the wild west days of you know the early days of so-called big data ungoverned a lot of shadow data science uh maybe maybe not as efficient as as we'd like and but certainly today taking advantage of some of those capabilities dealing with the noisy neighbor problem enough i wonder if you could comment another question that i have is you know one of the things that jim whitehurst talked about when ibm acquired red hat was the scale that ibm could bring and what i always looked at in that context was ibm's deep expertise in vertical industries so i wonder what are some of the key industry verticals that you guys are targeting and succeeding in i mean yes there's the pandemic has some effects we talked about hospitality obviously airlines have to have to be careful and conserving cash but what are some of the interesting uh tailwinds that you're seeing by industry and some of the the more interesting and popular use cases yeah that's a very good question now in terms of the industry vertical so we are seeing the traction in like a number of verticals right and the top ones being the financial services like healthcare telco the automotive industry as well as the federal government are some of the key ones right and at the end of the day what what all the customers are looking at doing is be able to improve the experience of their customers with the digital services that they roll out right as part of the pandemic and so on as well and then being able to gain competitive edge right if you can have the services in your platform and make them kind of fresh and relevant and be able to update them on a regular basis that's kind of that's your differentiator these days right and then the next one is yeah if you do all this so you should be able to increase your revenue be able to save cost as well that's kind of a key one that you mentioned right that that a lot of the industries like the hospitality the airlines and so on are kind of working on saving cash right so if you can help them save the cost that's kind of key and then the last one is is being able to automate the business processes right because there's not like a lot of the manual processes so yeah if you can add in like a lot of automation that's all uh good for your business and then now if you look at the individual use cases in these different industry verticals what we're seeing that the use cases cannot vary from the industry to industry like if you look at the financial services the use cases like fraud detection being able to do the risk analysis and compliance being able to improve the customer support and so on are some of the key use cases the cyber security is coming up a lot as well because uh yeah nobody wants to be hacked and so and and so on yeah especially like in these times right and then moving on to healthcare and the life sciences right what we're seeing the use cases on being able to do the data-driven diagnostics and care and being able to do the discovery of drugs being able to say track kobit 19 and be able to tell that okay uh which of my like hospital is going to be full when and what kind of ppe am i going to need at my uh the the sites and so on so that way i can yeah and mobilize like as needed are some of the key ones that we are seeing on the healthcare side uh and then in terms of the automotive industry right that's where being able to speed up the autonomous driving initiatives uh being able to do uh the auto warranty pricing based on the history of the drivers and so on and then being able to save on the insurance cost is a big one that we are seeing as well for the insurance industries and then but more like manufacturing right being able to do the quality assurance uh at the shop floor being able to do the predictive maintenance on machinery and also be able to do the robotics process automation so like lots of use cases that customers are prioritizing but it's very verticalized it kind of varies from the vertical to a vertical but at the end of the day yeah it's all about like improving the customer experience the revenue saving cost and and being able to automate the business processes yeah that's great thank you for that i mean we we heard a lot about automation we were covering ansible fest i mean just think about fraud how much you know fraud detection has changed in the last 10 years it used to be you know so slow you'd have to go go through your financial statements to find fraud and now it's instantaneous cyber security is critical because the adversaries are very capable healthcare is a space where you know it's ripe for change and now of course with the pandemic things are changing very rapidly automotive another one an industry that really hasn't hadn't seen much disruption and now you're seeing with a number of things autonomous vehicles and you know basically software on wheels and insurance great example even manufacturing you're seeing you know a real sea change there so thank you for that description you know very often in the cube we like to look at joint engineering solutions that's a gauge of the substance of a partnership you know sometimes you see these barney deals you know there's a press release i love you you love me okay see you but but so i wonder if you guys could talk about specific engineering that you're doing tom maybe you could start sure yeah so on the on the engineering and product side um we've um for cbp private cloud we've we've changed our uh internal development and testing to run all on uh openshift uh internally uh and as part of that we we have a direct line to red hat engineering to help us solve any issues that that uh we run into so in the initial release we start with support of openshift43 we're just wrapping up uh testing of and we'll begin with openshift46 very soon on another aspect of their partnership is on being able to update our images to account for any security vulnerabilities that are coming up so with the guidance and help from red hat we've been we've standardized our docker images on ubi or the universal based image and that allows us to automatically get many of these security fixes uh into our into our software um the last point that i mentioned here is that it's not just about providing kubernetes uh red hat helps us with the end to end uh solution so there is also the for example bringing a docker registry into the picture or providing a secure vault for storing uh all the secrets so all these uh all these pieces combined make up the uh a strong complete solution actually the last thing i'll mention is is a support aspect which is critical to our customers in this model our customers can bring support tickets to cluberra but as soon as we determine that it may be an issue that uh related to red hat or openshift where we can use their help we have that direct line of communication uh and automated systems in the back end to resolve those support tickets uh quickly for our customers so those are some of the examples of what we're doing on the technical side great thank you uh enough we're out of time but i wonder if we could just close here i mean when we look at our survey data with our data partner etr we see containers container orchestration container management generally and again kubernetes specifically is the the number one area of investment for companies that has the most momentum in terms of where they're putting their efforts it's it's it's right up there and even ahead of ai and machine learning and even ahead of cloud which is obviously larger maybe more mature but i wonder if you can add anything and bring us home with this segment yeah absolutely and i think uh so uh one thing i want to add is like in terms of the engineering level right we also have like between cloudera and red hat the partnership and the sales and the go to market levels as well because once you build the uh the integration it yeah it has to be built out in the customer environments as well right so that's where we have the alignment um at the marketing level as well as the sales level so that way we can like jointly go in and do the customer workshops and make sure the solutions are getting deployed the right way right uh and also we have a partnership at the professional services level as well right where um the experts from both the orgs are kind of hand in hand to help the customers right and then at the end of the day if you need help with support and that's what tom talked about that we have the experts on the support side as well yeah and then so to wrap things up right uh so all the industry research and the customer conversation that we are having are kind of indicating that the organizations are actually increasing the focus on digital uh transformation with the data and ai being a key part of it and that's where this strategic partnership between cloudera and and red hat is going to play a big role to help our mutual customers uh through that our transition and be able to achieve the key goals that they set for their business great well guys thanks so much for taking us through the partnership and the integration work that you guys are doing with customers a great discussion really appreciate your time yeah thanks a lot dave really appreciate it really enjoyed the conversation all right keep it right there everybody you're watching thecube's coverage of cubecon plus cloud nativecon north america the virtual edition keep it right there we'll be right back

>> [Announcer] From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering OSIsoft PIWORLD 2018, brought to you by OSIsoft. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're in downtown San Francisco at the OSIsoft PIWorld 2018. They've been doing it for like 28 years, it's amazing. We've never been here before, it's our first time and really these guys are all about OT, operational transactions. We talk about IoT and industrial IoT, they're doing it here. They're doing it for real and they've been doing it for decades so we're excited to have our next two guests. Tyler Duncan, he's a Technologist from Dell, Tyler, great to see you. >> Hi, thank you. >> He's joined by Ed Watson, the global account manager for channels for Osisoft. Or OSIsoft, excuse me. >> Glad to be here. Thanks, Jeff. >> I assume Dell's one of your accounts. >> Dell is one of my accounts as well as Nokia so-- >> Oh, very good. >> So there's a big nexus there. >> Yep, and we're looking forward to Dell Technology World next week, I think. >> Next week, yeah. >> I think it's the first Dell Technology not Dell EMC World with-- >> That's right. >> I don't know how many people are going to be there, 50,000 or something? >> There'll be a lot. >> There'll be a lot. (laughs) But that's all right, but we're here today... >> Yeah. >> And we're talking about industrial IoT and really what OSIsoft's been doing for a number of years, but what's interesting to me is from the IT side, we kind of look at industrial IoT as just kind of getting here and it's still kind of a new opportunity and looking at things like 5G and looking at things like IPE, ya know, all these sensors are now going to have IP connections on them. So, there's a whole new opportunity to marry the IT and the OT together. The nasty thing is we want to move it out of those clean pristine data centers and get it out to the edge of the nasty oil fields and the nasty wind turbine fields and crazy turbines and these things, so, Edge, what's special about the Edge? What are you guys doing to take care of the special things on the Edge? >> Well, a couple things, I think being out there in the nasty environments is where the money is. So, trying to collect data from the remote assets that really aren't connected right now. In terms of the Edge, you have a variety of small gateways that you can collect the data but what we see now is a move toward more compute at the Edge and that's where Dell comes in. >> Yeah, so I'm part of Dell's Extreme Scale and Structure Group, ESI, and specifically I'm part of our modular data center team. What that means is that for us we are helping to deploy compute out at the Edge and also at the core, but the challenges at the Edge is, you mentioned the kind of the dirty area, well, we can actually change that environment so that's it's not a dirty environment anymore. It's a different set of challenges. It may be more that it's remote, it's lights out, I don't have people there to maintain it, things like that, so it's not necessarily that it's dirty or ruggedized or that's it's high temperature or extreme environments, it just may be remote. >> Right, there's always this kind of balance in terms of, I assume it's all application specific as to what can you process there, what do you have to send back to process, there's always this nasty thing called latency and the speed of the light that just gets in the way all the time. So, how are you redesigning systems? How are you thinking about how much computing store do you put out on the Edge? How do you break up that you send back to central processing? How much do you have to keep? You know we all want to keep everything, it's probably a little bit more practical if you're keepin' it back in the data center versus you're tryin' to store it at the Edge. So how are you looking at some of these factors in designing these solutions? >> [Ed] Well, Jeff, those are good points. And where OSIsoft PI comes in, for the modular data center is to collect all the power cooling and IT data, aggregate it, send to the Cloud what needs to be sent to the Cloud, but enable Dell and their customers to make decisions right there on the Edge. So, if you're using modular data center or Telecom for cell towers or autonomous vehicles for AR VR, what we provide for Dell is a way to manage those modular data centers and when you're talking geographically dispersed modular data centers, it can be a real challenge. >> Yeah, and I think to add to that, there's, when we start lookin' at the Edge and the data that's there, I look at it as kind of two different purposes. There's one of why is that compute there in the first place. We're not defining that, we're just trying to enable our customers to be able to deploy compute however they need. Now when we start looking at our control system and the software monitoring analytics, absolutely. And what we are doing is we want to make sure that when we are capturing that data, we are capturing the right amount of data, but we're also creating the right tools and hooks in place in order to be able to update those data models as time goes on. >> [Jeff] Right. >> So, that we don't have worry about if we got it right on day one. It's updateable and we know that the right solution for one customer and the right data is not necessarily the right data for the next customer. >> [Jeff] Right. >> So we're not going to make the assumptions that we have it all figured out. We're just trying to design the solution so that it's flexible enough to allow customers to do whatever they need to do. >> I'm just curious in terms of, it's obviously important enough to give you guys your own name, Extreme Scale. What is Extreme Scale? 'Cause you said it isn't necessarily because it's dirty data and hardened and kind of environmentally. What makes an Extreme Scale opportunity for you that maybe some of your cohorts will bring you guys into an opportunity? >> Yeah so I think for the Extreme Scale part of it is, it is just doing the right engineering effort, provide the right solution for a customer. As opposed to something that is more of a product base that is bought off of dell.com. >> [Jeff] Okay. >> Everything we do is solution based and so it's listening to the customer, what their challenges are and trying to, again, provide that right solution. There are probably different levels of what's the right level of customization based off of how much that customer is buying. And sometimes that is adding things, sometimes it's taking things away, sometimes it's the remote location or sometimes it's a traditional data center. So our scrimpt scale infrastructure encompasses a lot of different verticals-- >> And are most of solutions that you develop kind of very customer specific or is there, you kind of come up with a solution that's more of an industry specific versus a customer specific? >> Yeah, we do, I would say everything we do is very customer specific. That's what our branch of Dell does. That said, as we start looking at more of the, what we're calling the Edge. I think ther6e are things that have to have a little more of a blend of that kind of product analysis, or that look from a product side. I'm no longer know that I'm deploying 40 megawatts in a particular location on the map, instead I'm deploying 10,000 locations all over the world and I need a solution that works in all of those. It has to be a little more product based in some of those, but still customized for our customers. >> And Jeff, we talked a little bit about scale. It's one thing to have scale in a data center. It's another thing to have scale across the globe. And, this is where PI excels, in that ability to manage that scale. >> Right, and then how exciting is it for you guys? You've been at it awhile, but it's not that long that we've had things like at Dupe and we've had things like Flink and we've had things like Spark, and kind of these new age applications for streaming data. But, you guys were extracting value from these systems and making course corrections 30 years ago. So how are some of these new technologies impacting your guys' ability to deliver value to your customers? >> Well I think the ecosystem itself is very good, because it allows customers to collect data in a way that they want to. Our ability to enable our customers to take data out of PI and put it into the Dupe, or put it into a data lake or an SAP HANA really adds significant value in today's ecosystem. >> It's pretty interesting, because I look around the room at all your sponsors, a lot of familiar names, a lot of new names as well, but in our world in the IT space that we cover, it's funny we've never been here before, we cover a lot of big shows like at Dell Technology World, so you guys have been doing your thing, has an ecosystem always been important for OSIsoft? It's very, very important for all the tech companies we cover, has it always been important for you? Or is it a relatively new development? >> I think it's always been important. I think it's more so now. No one company can do it all. We provide the data infrastructure and then allow our partners and clients to build solutions on top of it. And I think that's what sustains us through the years. >> Final thoughts on what's going on here today and over the last couple of days. Any surprises, hall chatter that you can share that you weren't expecting or really validates what's going on in this space. A lot of activity going on, I love all the signs over the building. This is the infrastructure that makes the rest of the world go whether it's power, transportation, what do we have behind us? Distribution, I mean it's really pretty phenomenal the industries you guys cover. >> Yeah and you know a lot of the sessions are videotaped so you can see Tyler from last year when he gave a presentation. This year Ebay, PayPal are giving presentations. And it's just a very exciting time in the data center industry. >> And I'll say on our side maybe not as much of a surprise, but also hearing the kind of the customer feedback on things that Dell and OSIsoft have partnered together and we work together on things like a Redfish connector in order to be able to, from an agnostic standpoint, be able to pull data from any server that's out there, regardless of brand, we're full support of that. But, to be able to do that in an automatic way that with their connector so that whenever I go and search for my range of IP addresses, it finds all the devices, brings all that data in, organizes it, and makes it ready for me to be able to use. That's a big thing and that's... They've been doing connectors for a while, but that's a new thing as far as being able to bring that and do that for servers. That, if I have 100,000 servers, I can't manually go get all those and bring them in. >> Right, right. >> So, being able to do that in an automatic way is a great enablement for the Edge. >> Yeah, it's a really refreshing kind of point of view. We usually look at it from the other side, from IT really starting to get together with the OT. Coming at it from the OT side where you have such an established customer base, such an established history and solution set and then again marrying that back to the IT and some of the newer things that are happening and that's exciting times. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Well thanks for spending a few minutes with us. And congratulations on the success of the show. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Alright, he's Tyler, he's Ed, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE from downtown San Francisco at OSIsoft PI WORLD 2018, thanks for watching. (light techno music)

>> Announcer: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering OSIsoft PIWORLD 2018, brought to you by OSIsoft. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're in downtown San Francisco at the OSIsoft PIWorld 2018. They've been doing it for like 28 years, it's amazing. We've never been here before, it's our first time and really these guys are all about OT, operational transactions. We talk about IoT and industrial IoT, they're doing it here. They're doing it for real and they've been doing it for decades so we're excited to have our next two guests. Tyler Duncan, he's a Technologist from Dell, Tyler, great to see you. >> Hi, thank you. >> He's joined by Ed Watson, the global account manager for channels for Osisoft. Or OSIsoft, excuse me. >> Glad to be here. Thanks, Jeff. >> I assume Dell's one of your accounts. >> Dell is one of my accounts as well as Nokia so-- >> Oh, very good. >> So there's a big nexus there. >> Yep, and we're looking forward to Dell Technology World next week, I think. >> Next week, yeah. >> I think it's the first Dell Technology not Dell EMC World with-- >> That's right. >> I don't know how many people are going to be there, 50,000 or something? >> There'll be a lot. >> There'll be a lot. (laughs) But that's all right, but we're here today... >> Yeah. >> And we're talking about industrial IoT and really what OSIsoft's been doing for a number of years, but what's interesting to me is from the IT side, we kind of look at industrial IoT as just kind of getting here and it's still kind of a new opportunity and looking at things like 5G and looking at things like IPE, ya know, all these sensors are now going to have IP connections on them. So, there's a whole new opportunity to marry the IT and the OT together. The nasty thing is we want to move it out of those clean pristine data centers and get it out to the edge of the nasty oil fields and the nasty wind turbine fields and crazy turbines and these things, so, Edge, what's special about the Edge? What are you guys doing to take care of the special things on the Edge? >> Well, a couple things, I think being out there in the nasty environments is where the money is. So, trying to collect data from the remote assets that really aren't connected right now. In terms of the Edge, you have a variety of small gateways that you can collect the data but what we see now is a move toward more compute at the Edge and that's where Dell comes in. >> Yeah, so I'm part of Dell's Extreme Scale and Structure Group, ESI, and specifically I'm part of our modular data center team. What that means is that for us we are helping to deploy compute out at the Edge and also at the core, but the challenges at the Edge is, you mentioned the kind of the dirty area, well, we can actually change that environment so that's it's not a dirty environment anymore. It's a different set of challenges. It may be more that it's remote, it's lights out, I don't have people there to maintain it, things like that, so it's not necessarily that it's dirty or ruggedized or that's it's high temperature or extreme environments, it just may be remote. >> Right, there's always this kind of balance in terms of, I assume it's all application specific as to what can you process there, what do you have to send back to process, there's always this nasty thing called latency and the speed of the light that just gets in the way all the time. So, how are you redesigning systems? How are you thinking about how much computing store do you put out on the Edge? How do you break up that you send back to central processing? How much do you have to keep? You know we all want to keep everything, it's probably a little bit more practical if you're keepin' it back in the data center versus you're tryin' to store it at the Edge. So how are you looking at some of these factors in designing these solutions? >> Ed: Well, Jeff, those are good points. And where OSIsoft PI comes in, for the modular data center is to collect all the power cooling and IT data, aggregate it, send to the Cloud what needs to be sent to the Cloud, but enable Dell and their customers to make decisions right there on the Edge. So, if you're using modular data center or Telecom for cell towers or autonomous vehicles for AR VR, what we provide for Dell is a way to manage those modular data centers and when you're talking geographically dispersed modular data centers, it can be a real challenge. >> Yeah, and I think to add to that, there's, when we start lookin' at the Edge and the data that's there, I look at it as kind of two different purposes. There's one of why is that compute there in the first place. We're not defining that, we're just trying to enable our customers to be able to deploy compute however they need. Now when we start looking at our control system and the software monitoring analytics, absolutely. And what we are doing is we want to make sure that when we are capturing that data, we are capturing the right amount of data, but we're also creating the right tools and hooks in place in order to be able to update those data models as time goes on. >> Jeff: Right. >> So, that we don't have worry about if we got it right on day one. It's updateable and we know that the right solution for one customer and the right data is not necessarily the right data for the next customer. >> Jeff: Right. >> So we're not going to make the assumptions that we have it all figured out. We're just trying to design the solution so that it's flexible enough to allow customers to do whatever they need to do. >> I'm just curious in terms of, it's obviously important enough to give you guys your own name, Extreme Scale. What is Extreme Scale? 'Cause you said it isn't necessarily because it's dirty data and hardened and kind of environmentally. What makes an Extreme Scale opportunity for you that maybe some of your cohorts will bring you guys into an opportunity? >> Yeah so I think for the Extreme Scale part of it is, it is just doing the right engineering effort, provide the right solution for a customer. As opposed to something that is more of a product base that is bought off of dell.com. >> Jeff: Okay. >> Everything we do is solution based and so it's listening to the customer, what their challenges are and trying to, again, provide that right solution. There are probably different levels of what's the right level of customization based off of how much that customer is buying. And sometimes that is adding things, sometimes it's taking things away, sometimes it's the remote location or sometimes it's a traditional data center. So our scrimpt scale infrastructure encompasses a lot of different verticals-- >> And are most of solutions that you develop kind of very customer specific or is there, you kind of come up with a solution that's more of an industry specific versus a customer specific? >> Yeah, we do, I would say everything we do is very customer specific. That's what our branch of Dell does. That said, as we start looking at more of the, what we're calling the Edge. I think ther6e are things that have to have a little more of a blend of that kind of product analysis, or that look from a product side. I'm no longer know that I'm deploying 40 megawatts in a particular location on the map, instead I'm deploying 10,000 locations all over the world and I need a solution that works in all of those. It has to be a little more product based in some of those, but still customized for our customers. >> And Jeff, we talked a little bit about scale. It's one thing to have scale in a data center. It's another thing to have scale across the globe. And, this is where PI excels, in that ability to manage that scale. >> Right, and then how exciting is it for you guys? You've been at it awhile, but it's not that long that we've had things like at Dupe and we've had things like Flink and we've had things like Spark, and kind of these new age applications for streaming data. But, you guys were extracting value from these systems and making course corrections 30 years ago. So how are some of these new technologies impacting your guys' ability to deliver value to your customers? >> Well I think the ecosystem itself is very good, because it allows customers to collect data in a way that they want to. Our ability to enable our customers to take data out of PI and put it into the Dupe, or put it into a data lake or an SAP HANA really adds significant value in today's ecosystem. >> It's pretty interesting, because I look around the room at all your sponsors, a lot of familiar names, a lot of new names as well, but in our world in the IT space that we cover, it's funny we've never been here before, we cover a lot of big shows like at Dell Technology World, so you guys have been doing your thing, has an ecosystem always been important for OSIsoft? It's very, very important for all the tech companies we cover, has it always been important for you? Or is it a relatively new development? >> I think it's always been important. I think it's more so now. No one company can do it all. We provide the data infrastructure and then allow our partners and clients to build solutions on top of it. And I think that's what sustains us through the years. >> Final thoughts on what's going on here today and over the last couple of days. Any surprises, hall chatter that you can share that you weren't expecting or really validates what's going on in this space. A lot of activity going on, I love all the signs over the building. This is the infrastructure that makes the rest of the world go whether it's power, transportation, what do we have behind us? Distribution, I mean it's really pretty phenomenal the industries you guys cover. >> Yeah and you know a lot of the sessions are videotaped so you can see Tyler from last year when he gave a presentation. This year Ebay, PayPal are giving presentations. And it's just a very exciting time in the data center industry. >> And I'll say on our side maybe not as much of a surprise, but also hearing the kind of the customer feedback on things that Dell and OSIsoft have partnered together and we work together on things like a Redfish connector in order to be able to, from an agnostic standpoint, be able to pull data from any server that's out there, regardless of brand, we're full support of that. But, to be able to do that in an automatic way that with their connector so that whenever I go and search for my range of IP addresses, it finds all the devices, brings all that data in, organizes it, and makes it ready for me to be able to use. That's a big thing and that's... They've been doing connectors for a while, but that's a new thing as far as being able to bring that and do that for servers. That, if I have 100,000 servers, I can't manually go get all those and bring them in. >> Right, right. >> So, being able to do that in an automatic way is a great enablement for the Edge. >> Yeah, it's a really refreshing kind of point of view. We usually look at it from the other side, from IT really starting to get together with the OT. Coming at it from the OT side where you have such an established customer base, such an established history and solution set and then again marrying that back to the IT and some of the newer things that are happening and that's exciting times. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Well thanks for spending a few minutes with us. And congratulations on the success of the show. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Alright, he's Tyler, he's Ed, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE from downtown San Francisco at OSIsoft PI WORLD 2018, thanks for watching. (light techno music)

from Gillette Stadium in Foxborough Massachusetts it's the cube covering Vita winter warmer 2018 presented by silicon angle hi I'm Stu minimun and we're here at the Vita winter warmer 2018 have with me Chris Harney who's the founder yes and president Vita great to see you Chris great to you so 12th annual one of this event it's gone through a couple of name change it's actually the fifth year we've been doing it I'd been coming for a few years before that but for just for our audience that doesn't know explain kind of the why of the V Tugg you know and what's what's changed you know over the years so so V tug was originally a still founded on the principle that we can get smarter together you know if everyone learns a little piece and teaches everyone because back when it started there was no YouTube there was no Google he had to learn on your own and you know we started out learning how to virtualize machines we learned how the emotion worked well now you're talking serverless applications you're talking crowd or cloud native you talk it's tough going to the cloud is it staying on Prem how do you automate and it's changing I mean Moore's law has gone out the window you know change is happening win weeks rather than years yeah and Chris I always love this it's one of our first events of the year the last few years it's a user group it's good grounding for me to really understand you know the typical people NIT what do they care about what are they struggling you know in what's going on in their world so you know you're going to bring us some of the users that we have on here but from your standpoint you know what are you seeing you know what are you hearing yeah so I'm hearing that users are struggling you know that the old adage 80% of their job is maintaining systems and 20% as upgrades yet 20 of some of the budget is spent on upgrades and 80 so that the dumb numbers are skewed so that having trouble keeping up with technology yeah it you throw out some things you talked about you know server lists type applications you'd key notes this morning we had Microsoft Amazon yet some developer to tracks going on looking at you know orchestration and yet some stalwarts the in the industry you know talking about you know what what's happening from from an IT standpoint where is kind of there is no typical but you know when you look at the range of people that are here um you know are they still I'm doing my virtualization rollout are they you know where are they in the cloud journey have they heard about things like kubernetes and server list yet so this audience may have heard of kubernetes very few people are implementing it I still think you know we matured 10 years ago we haven't kind of made that next leap yet so people are still they've got VMware they've got they're looking at NSX and they're running on what's the next hardware platform hyperconvergence is still a big deal yeah uh and hyper-converged is a big deal I mean we've been watching you for many days as I said this is a good grounding for us because right it's like oh well why is that AWS reinvent I was at cube con and you talk about all this stuff where you know the future is going but you know what what's happening today is super important um I like you you talked about some of the dynamics about like how they spend budget you know we talk a lot today about you know it's got to be a switch from kappa to op X and consumption and you know that that's changing a lot people's roles so training education so super important what are they getting coming to an event like this and what are the resources are you seeing that's and that are important today so at this event I think there's a lot of validation you know we we get inundated with marketing go to the cloud go to cloud and all of these users are coming together hey what are you doing for cloud and they're realizing that everyone is pretty much in the same boat together you know so so that's one thing they get networking they share their problems and what the fixes are and then the vendors they bring their a-game they really do some great training sessions so you know we've got 20 different training sessions going on upstairs and the users will go up there and they'll be able to talk one-on-one with real engineers who are doing this stuff yeah so Chris you know both big Patriots fans we've got you know Tedy Bruschi behind us here the Patriots are actually on the practice field right now getting ready for yet another Super Bowl so yeah it's amazing hopefully bring in ring number six home I think we're good lucky were the cube every time we've done your event the Patriots have still been the hunt so you know we got to keep that going but you know you look at the Patriots you say they've done so well you know other than Belichick and Brady there's been a lot of change you know you're gonna have you know this Patriots alumni is coming and I'm hoping we'll talk to like Logan Mankins and be like you know the game it seen the people change you know the strategies change but you know how do you keep that winning formula and it's a lot of its same an IT I mean so much tech has changed you know in 12 years what's the same and we you know what what's different from your viewpoint so the same you know we all have end users you know we aren't applications delivered without without hesitation or without issues so that's that will always be the same what's changed is how do we deliver that you know we used to put a server in one application and then we had sans you know so we could put the sands in and have smaller servers to virtualization to automation you know people are still looking at clones and making that automation happen faster but I think security is starting to take a 4-4-2 that you know we're seeing what's the Intel some viruses and some weaknesses so I think a lot more people are spending more time remediating possible issues and less time building new stuff yeah great points they are I mean I'm in a first structure guy by background and right you talked we went from server to we went to a VM and even we talk about things like containers and then functions it's that delivery of how do I deliver my application right how do I build modernize applications you know term you know cloud native gets thrown out a lot you know developers you know are involved here and you know it still matters some of those underneath piece even something like serverless eventually somebody is responsible that for for that infrastructure it's just you know we looked at the wiki bond research looked at you know we see a big shift going to platforms whether that be a public cloud or even something like hyper-converged there's less that I need to be worried about building and playing with those geek knobs and more software is going to allow me to handle that as data grows as scale happens I can't have people you know in there having to worry about some of those pieces you know machine learning needs to help you know the the the software itself needs to do it in that that's a shift it's challenging for people to kind of embrace that change understand where they add value and where they need to go and it's events like this that I think help people you know make understand where they need to make those transition points and where they can keep adding value is spot on there and I think people just see a point they need to learn that the more things they can affect the more positive influence they can have on that company and the long longer they'll be there the long they'll want them there if you're just affecting one thing you don't add as much value if you're affecting a thousand things there's a lot more value to you all right well Chris once again it's pleasure having you on the program we really appreciated that we could come you know help share the user activity with our community so thanks so much and you know wishing the past good luck absolutely you up for addiction on the score I hate to do predictions when we're going to be there you know I'm confident the Patriots do well if history has shown us anything it's usually a close game absolutely you know so you know I've seen a couple of Eagles fans here but a lot of Patriots colors so thanks so much and we're gonna be back with lots more coverage here from the V tog winter warmer 2018 I'm stew min Amman and you're watching the cube