>> Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering Magento Imagine 2019. Brought to you by Adobe. >> Welcome to The Cube. Lisa Martin with Jeff Frick, live at The Wynn Las Vegas, for Magento Imagine 2019. This is a really buzzy event. All e-commerce innovation, tech talks, with about 3,500 folks, and we're excited to welcome to The Cube Tina Mulqueen, CEO of Kindred PR Marketing Agency as well as contribute with Forbes, Digital Trends, expert on e-commerce, I would say. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. >> So we were talking about influencer marketing before we went live. And you have been doing, been working in that kind of before it was even a concept. We were just saying how much marketing has changed in the last few years alone, and how brands have had to to survive and be profitable, evolve with that. Give us a bit of a perspective, first on kind of Kindred PR, what you're doing, how you got involved in influencer marketing. >> Sure, so I was really fortunate to have some great mentors early in my marketing career that kind of ushered me along in the right direction and said hey, I think we should really pay attention to this whole Twitter thing and what's happening with these real, everyday people that are amassing a following on Twitter, and that's really where it started was on that platform. So I ended up on a team for CBS that did some of the influencer marketing for Vanity Fair and for their coverage of The Insider and Entertainment Tonight, and we would work with them to get event coverage to trend online. And as you mentioned, that was before, really, we knew what influencer marketing was. It wasn't really, it didn't have to a name, so to speak, at that time. And so I learned a lot from then, and we have kind of come full circle with influencer marketing, where it, I was at first working with these sort of micro influencers, as we would call them now. And then it was a lot of brands working with more of the celebrity influencers, like the Kim Kardashians of the world, and now it's gone back to brands are really interested in these micro influencers again because of the concept of authenticity, which is a big one right now, that marketers are paying attention to. >> Exactly what I was going to say. >> So how do they dance around the authenticity? It's such an interesting and knife edge, right? Because you want people to promote your products because they like them, and that's the original celebrity endorsement back in the early days, right? People actually did use the product that they endorsed. But now you get paid endorsements, and people can see through that. At the same time, it obviously has some results, or people would not continue to invest, and now it's come full circle, whereas you said because of the internet, I with some particular interest can reach a huge number of people around a really small interest set, because of the distribution of the internet. >> Right. So what's interesting is, influencer marketing, when we first really started talking about influencer marketing, we treated it as word-of-mouth marketing. And it had some incredible benefits over some more traditional kinds of marketing because it was word of mouth. And then because influencer marketing had a lot of investments, brands were investing heavily in influencer marketing, and we were dealing more with celebrity influencers, consumers became smarter as well during this time. And then they started looking at these celebrity endorsements and realizing that these are not real endorsements. And so I think that's where we're seeing this shift back to micro influencers, and people that are really using the products that these brands are touting. >> But how does a brand, how do they engage with the micro influencer? >> Actually, there's a really great case study that I always use as an example of this, and it's actually BECCA Cosmetics, which, BECCA's one of the, I think the number one, sales cosmetic line in Sephora. And they reached out, I think it was about a year ago, maybe a couple of years ago now. They reached out to an influencer because they realized that their website traffic was going up every time a certain influencer would go live on YouTube and was using their products. So BECCA reached out to this influencer that was organically using the products, and collaborated with the influencer to create a line of products of her own. And that really, I think they sold out within the first hour when they actually went live with the product line. So that's a great example of how to engage with an influencer that is organically using your brand, and making sure that you're also including their audience, in, like, the iteration of the product, because then the audience of the influencer is also invested. >> And what defines influencer versus a micro influencer? I imagine the sheer volume of followers, but there's got to be more to it than that, because there's this really cool example that you gave, what BECCA Cosmetics found was much more probably authenticity. So talk to us about not just the number drivers there, but some of the other, I mean, it's one thing to be able to blast something to 100,000 people. It's a whole other thing to actually be able to engage their followers and convert it to a transaction. >> Right. So I think that often when we hear brands talking about micro or macro influencers, they really are talking about the number of followers, but I think you bring up a really great point with respect to that level of engagement of that following and how to really tap into somebody that is engaging their following. So I think brands are going toward actual experts in their field, or actual experts in the product line in a bigger capacity now because they know that what they say is going to be more meaningful to their audience and more engaging to their audience, rather than based on number of followers alone. So there's a lot of different things that are going into play to create a better context for marketing. >> I'm curious how other metrics have evolved beyond just the transaction. So there's the followers, and then, you know, there's obviously transactions, as you said, there's website traffic. But as people, as brands are starting to realize that engagement, ongoing engagement, interaction with content is part of the relationship, separate from and a value to the actual transaction. How have their metrics changed? How are they reviewing these programs? I'm sure a lot of it at first was, "Well, we hope it works, we think it's working." But how has that matured over time? >> It definitely has matured, and there are some platforms out there that will try to quantify influencer marketing in different ways than we've seen in the past. It's gotten a lot more sophisticated. That said, marketers still have a real challenge ahead of them in terms of quantifying their efforts in a meaningful way, because it's still hard to put a number to brand sentiment. And that's a lot of what influencer marketing is. >> Right. And is it, from an investment point of view, I always think of people with a large bucket of money, right, they put a very small piece in their venture fund, which has a real low probability of a hit, but if it hits, it hits big. And when they're budgeting for the influencer program, is it kind of like that? You know, we've got this carve-out that we are not quite sure what the ROI is. We think it's important. We don't want to miss out. Versus, you know, what I'm spending on print or what I'm spending on TV, or what I'm spending on kind of traditional campaigns. How are marketers looking at that within their portfolio? >> It is a great questions, and I think that marketers know that they need to invest in influencer marketing, so we're seeing an influx of investment coming in through influencer marketing. That said, I've been in a lot of conversations with brands that are talking about, do we go the macro influencer route or do we go with the micro influencer route? And right now I think that brands are starting to realize that if you get a lot of voices or a number of voices that are sharing the same sentiment and that are able to feed off of each other with respect to the conversation and amplify each other because even if you have micro influencers with smaller following count, they're going to amplify each other's content, and that ends up in the long run, as we talked about, being more authentic. So that's where a lot of the conversations are going right now in terms of how to spend that influencer marketing budget and weighing the pros and cons of those different options. >> Well, marketing is and should be a science these days. There is so much data about all of us from everything we do every day that brands need to be able to evaluate that, leveraging platforms from Adobe Magento for example, going back to the BECCA Cosmetics and thinking well, if they evaluate these micro influencers and the lift and the traffic that they get, if they're actually using that data appropriately then that should be able to inform how they're actually carving up their investment dollars into which influencers, macro or micro, they know that is going to make the biggest impact on revenue. So it behooves marketing organizations to become scientific and actually use all this consumer data that we are all putting out through our phones, on social devices, constantly. >> Absolutely. I think it's a great point. And I hear often from clients too that they have, they've invested in these platforms that will sort of try to analyze the data, but they're not doing anything with that data. So a lot of e-commerce merchants and retailers, if you don't have a strategy on how you're going to implement that what you're learning from your consumers, then it ends up falling flat. >> What's the biggest surprise you hear from marketers today in terms of this influencer marketing? Are they confused, they're getting it, are there any, I mean you had one really good success story, are there any other, you know, kind of success stories you can share that this is a very different way to get your message into the marketplace? >> You know, one thing that I think people should do more of, that it kind of surprises me that we aren't seeing more of is using media as a channel for e-commerce merchants to have an affiliate strategy. So basically utilizing influencers in collaboration with a media channel to be able to have a new revenue stream. I think that that's something that we haven't seen very often. It's something that when I was working as the CMO for a public trading company called Grey Cloak Technologies, we worked with Sherell's, which is a company that we were acquiring at the time to consult with Marie Claire on how to incorporate influencers into their e-commerce strategy as a publisher. And that's something that I think that people could take more advantage of. >> Even just with affiliate codes or coupon codes and those types of things? They're just not really executing on it that well. >> Right, right. And I think that part of it is a technological component, like the technology isn't quite there to be able to implement, well, to be able to implement that on a wide scale. Like Marie Claire, Sherell's ended up creating the technology for them to be able to incorporate influencers into their e-commerce strategy. But I think that we're going to see more of that. >> Right, because for the influencer, that's one of many sources of revenue that they need to execute on if they're actually going to build, you know, a lifestyle business around being, you know, quote-unquote influencer. They need that affiliate revenue on top of their advertising revenue and all these other little pieces, selling t-shirts, etc. >> Right, right. And we're seeing some companies that are coming to the table to try to provide solutions. One company that I've been watching for a while is called COSIGN, and their platform basically allows influencers to integrate on the platform and link things through social media so that people can buy through a picture, on Facebook for example. So I think we're going to see more of those types of technologies as well. >> Let's talk kind of on the spirit of trends and some of the things that you are seeing. There was this big trend in the last few years of everybody wanting to be able to, we can get anything through Amazon, right? And we can get in a matter of hours. But looking at, and seeing some big box stores that did not do a good job of being able to blend physical, digital, virtual, all these storefronts. What though are you seeing in terms of companies, maybe enterprises, needing to sort of still have or offer a brick and mortar experience? Like we were talking to HP Inc. this morning, he was on stage, and this click and collect program that they launched in APEC where depending on their region, people need to be able to start and actually transact online, but actually fulfill in store. In terms of like, maybe, either reverse engineering online to brick and mortar or hybridizing the two, what are some of the trends that you're seeing that businesses really need to start paying attention to? >> Sure, so I think that omnichannel has been a buzzword for some time, and the way that marketers are looking at omnichannel now, or the way that retailers are looking at omnichannel now is a little bit different. At first, when we started talking about the concept of create this sort of seamless interplay between brick and mortar and online storefronts, it was about taking the brick and mortar experience and putting it online. And now I think marketers are getting better at realizing that those are two completely different channels, and your customer's in a different place in both of those channels. So you need to give them an experience that is relevant for the channel, and it can be totally different than what we're used to in traditional retail stores. But brick and mortar obviously does have a place. We're seeing Amazon come out with their own brick and mortar locations, and we're seeing different e-commerce startups have brick and mortar locations and be very successful with them too as an e-commerce first storefront. So there's definitely a place for brick and mortar. I think people will always have to shop in brick and mortar storefronts, although we obviously are going to get more sophisticated delivery options, and that's coming as well. But I think that it's really an interplay and it's understanding what the channels are and where your consumers are at in that space. >> And then the whole next generation of that, which we're hearing about here, like shopping inside of Instagram. So now as opposed to a destination or I'm going to some place to buy something, whether it's online or a store, now it's actually just part of experiencing the media, as you said, and oh by the way, while I'm here, that looks interesting, I'll take one of those as well. Whole different level of experience that the retailers now have to support. >> Right, absolutely. There are other technology platforms too that, like one of them is basically producing video content that you can scroll over, or let's say you were just watching a commercial on your television, or maybe it's not even a commercial. Maybe it's like real long form content, and if you scroll over a product in the image, you can purchase it out of that video. And so these things are coming as well. It's really an exciting time. But it's an exciting time to be creative as well, because you have to have some creativity behind these strategies in order to make an impression on the consumer. >> It's exciting and creepy at the same time. (Jeff laughing) I don't know if my wallet can handle that. But we'll see. But one of the things I was wondering, when you were talking about, for example, Amazon going, starting as this online mega store and now having brick and mortar stores, the acquisition of Whole Foods. I can't go in there and shop without being asked if I'm a Prime member. But what are some of the sort of foundational customer experience expectations that, because I would think personalization would be kind of a common foundation that whether I'm shopping online with whatever, I want whoever I'm buying from, especially if I have a history, I want them to know what I've bought before, maybe my average order value, to be able to kind of incentivize loyalty. But I probably want the same thing if I'm in a brick and mortar. Are you seeing some sort of key foundations that businesses, whether they do one, the other, or both, need to put in place that can span both? >> Absolutely. So I think it's a great point. I think personalization and the experience. Obviously we're hearing so much about experience in terms of e-commerce, but in brick and mortar stores in particular. But I think that the personalization piece is such an important one. But I also think that it's now getting to where we need to personalize more on the marketing for no matter what channel it is. So you need to bring that physical experience with the customer to your e-commerce efforts as well so that you can, for example, if you're going to email market to me, I want it to be relevant. I want to know that you have been paying attention to my shopping habits, and it's kind of a fine line with respect to data, but if you're going to be using my data, I want to make sure that it's useful to me and it saves me time. >> And it kind of goes back to a point Jeff and I have heard a number of times today, and that's validating me as a consumer that you understand that what I'm interested in that you have to offer, you understand it, it's important to both of us. Well Tina, I wish we had more time to keep talking with you, but we thank you so much for joining us on The Cube this afternoon and talking with us about some of the things that you're seeing, your experiences. And now I know the difference between an influencer, macro and micro, and why they can be so important to brands of any size. So thank you for your time. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Our pleasure >> Thank you. >> For Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching us on The Cube live from Las Vegas at Magento Imagine 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat digital music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE covering HPE Discover 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the CUBE's special presentation of HPE Hewlett Packard Enterprise Discover 2017. I'm John Furrier and my cohost Dave Vellante. For three days of wall to wall coverage. This is our intro section of our three days of Hewlett Packard Enterprises transformation and coverage. This is our seventh year covering HPE Discover, formerly HP Discover after the split. Lot of commentary today. We have seen HP over the years transform. We've been watching this, sort of a front row seat to HP, now HPE, really getting hammered in stock market their last earnings again didn't meet expectations, but this is not a quick turn around. I mean, this is a market place that's shifting. HP's had their plan now for multiple years. We're going to cover it for three days. But interesting. The world is turning. You had tweeted this morning on a Twitter storm you put together @dvellante, twitter.com. So it's Dvellante. Everyone should check it out. But it really highlights it. True private cloud, or private cloud, cloud has impacted everything. HP's kind of shifted their cloud strategy. It's becoming clear what they're doing, but private cloud, true private cloud, is legit. It's a 250 plus billion dollar market opportunity, as you guys have put it out on wikibond. Hybrid cloud is very relevant, and on the horizon is multi-cloud, the ability for customers to use multiple clouds. And on top of that we have machine learning, AI, and a myriad of things. Marketplace is shifting significantly, HP has been transforming significantly over the past five plus years. Your thoughts this year at HPE Discover and marketplace conditions and are they poised for success? >> Well, John, we're in the fifth year now of the turnaround that Meg Whitman initiated, and I think it's the light at the end of the tunnel year. HPE-- We've said many times at theCUBE that HP has the strength to grow. Well, it's certainly shrunk. They're about a 50 billion dollar company with a 26 billion dollar market cap, and there's a way to eek out some growth. If you separate all-- Call it Remain Co. Like the remaining company. Take out the software, take out EDS, take out actually tier one, tier one customer who's-- who's not buying as many servers as possible, or as they had previously, and the company grew about one percent. So what you're seeing, John, is some quarters HP grows a little bit, some companies it shrinks a little bit, but essentially it's facing what most legacy hardware companies are facing. Legacy hardware's down, everybody's scrambling to what we call true private cloud, which is essentially hybrid IT, trying to mimic the public cloud. And then HP adds in a dose of IOT at the edge, and then, really importantly, services. Services have never been more important for this company, and that is what I called earlier Remain Co. The remaining HP. Once it jettisons the software business this fall, that's what will be left, basically a 50 billion dollar company with about 55,000 employees. >> I was looking at a-- some IOT stories just last night, and a Business Insider article came up. It was an image, and it had listed the companies that-- by average age. And you had, obviously, Facebook, average age like 28. HP was at the highest end, like 39. And I want to bring up this notion of changing market because HP has always been customer focused, so the question is, if they are truly customer focused, as is Amazon, for instance, we talked to Andy Chasey, he talks about that all the time. And the context of where you've been and where you're going, historical legacy, declining markets, say servers for instance. And where you're going. It brings up an interesting point. And notable is recently Amazon web services hired Gosling, the founder of Java, which had a big conversation on the internet around age. A lot of the winners are older systems guys. So what's interesting is I actually look at that Business Insider article and saying actually age is a wisdom point now, because right now HP's got to solve customer problems. In addition to transforming themselves, they're looking at a customer base that's changing their requirements, so having experience is actually a good thing, as pointed out by some of the big leaders right now in hyperscale are old m systems guys. This is an opportunity for HP, and I think that's where I want to get your thoughts on. Are they customer focused in your mind, and if they are going to be, continue to be, what should their customer focus be? >> Let's talk about what customers are doing. So, first and foremost, customers are deinvesting in non-differentiated, you know, hardware maintenance and provisioning, okay. So they're shifting IT labor from provisioning luns and servers into digital transformation initiatives, so that's sort of one piece. The other pieces there as they're shifting those resources in places up the value stack. So it's applications; it's, as you say, digital transformation services; it's new IOT activity. So they're only investing-- from the HP standpoint, HP's an infrastructure company. They're only investing in infrastructure that looks like public cloud and can focus on hybrid. So are they customer focused? Yes. And what are they doing there? So they're investing in MMA, they're doing some MMA tuck ins. They're focused on develop-- delivering platforms with an API that are essentially programmable infrastructure. And very importantly, they're in a low margin business now. It's sort of low 30 percent gross margin business. So they have to get volume. How do they get volume? How do they reach those customers? Partners. So you are seeing a new partner emphasis. You know, are they customer focused? Yes, but they're really right now partner focused to reach those customers and increase their scale and coverage. That is a critical difference between the new HP, not that they always didn't have partners, now partners are critical to their success. >> One of the things that's the theme here is simplifying hybrid IT and I think from a customer standpoint, simplifying that is going to be critical. At the same time, creating new services opportunities. So I want to get your thoughts on the top story, at least from my perspective, here at the show at HPE Discover, and that is, is it better to be big or small? And HP has a strategy of a collection of small, nimble, agile business units. Dell EMC, for instance, has a strategy of being big and using leverage and supply chain and what not. Two different strategies. We pointed that out on the web. Certainly we've heard a lot of different approaches. Your thoughts on HP's strategy vis a vis bigger and better, or smaller and nimbler is better. >> Well, HP's not small. Hewlett Packard Enterprises is still big. I mean, it's a, it's a company that's twice the size, or more, than EMC was at its peak. So it's still a very, very large company. The difference is, John, I think they're focused. So they really are focused on hardware and infrastructure, the support, you know, the digital transformation, whatever you want to call it. The big question I have, John, is now that HP is getting rid of its software business, its outsourcing and EDS business, what is HP going to do with regard to software and services. So, they reinvented the whole services organization. The big question mark for me is software. Will they get into this, what you call inter-clouding business? Software to manage multiple clouds. It's a wide open space, everybody's going after it, and I haven't heard much from HP there. So what is their software strategy? Now, the other thing I'll add, is the good thing about being smaller is that it's going to generate cash for them. So they're going to get, going to get cash out of the spin merge with CSC. They're going to get cash out of the spin merge with MicroFocus. And you've already seen HP become more aquisitive with the Simplivity acquisition, certainly with Nimble recently, previously the Aruba acquisition, and some other tuck ins. That's critical in order for HP to reposition and continue to grow. >> Yeah, and my take on HP right now is they got to be more assertive. Their voice in the marketplace, at an industry level, has to be very assertive and relevant. I think that's something you've got to put the stake in the ground and hammer that home. I think we got the piece parts, and I think the spin merge is not a "they're getting out of that business." They're just decoupling from the monolithic entity that was HPE and creating kind of cohesive entities. And I think there's a strategy, in my opinion, that looks really strong there in the sense that, hey, at the end of the day, it's going to be a services game. And if you look at the IOT Edge, to me that's the tell sign of the marketplace. As the value shifts from IT-- So, simplifying IT, having true private cloud, having some hybrid pathways for IT, maybe a declining market from a service perspective, but simplifying that and operationalizing that and shifting the value to the Edge with services is a huge opportunity for HP. This is something that not a lot of people on Wall Street are kind of rocking at this point. But the value shift from IT, centralized IT, to a distributed kind of network effect is a really interesting play. And I think this a bet I think HP's making from my standpoint, and that's where the intelligent Edge piece comes in. If they could nail that, and layer on the services, and bring real value paths for customers with outcomes that are, not pie in the sky-- Sure, they throw some AI in there, machine learning, it's all relevant. Getting into open source. Taking that labs machine and memster technology and bringing that out at an appropriate timing. With the services in place. I think that's a good strategy for HP. >> Well, you mentioned Wall Street. Look, Wall Street is very tactically focused on the quarter and the margin decline, and, you know, D-Ram prices doubled in January, okay? So a company like HPE is going to get hurt by that. So that's head winds for these guys, these currency head winds. The stock, the price will go up and down. But the point I want to make, John, is there's a new competitive reality. CIOs have woken up to open source and cloud. And as a result, we've emerged into a new competitive dynamic where HPE is competing with Dell. It's competing with China, and it's competing with AWS. And it's one different-- Two differentiable advantages or services, you know, clearly HP's doubling down on services. I'll actually add a third. The second is partnerships, and the third big one, which is green field, is an ecosystem around IOT and what they call the intelligent edge. >> Well, Dave, great commentary. My, again, my feeling is customer focus at an industry level, having the right product mix that's relevant in the, for the solutions customers want. And also their partners. Leveraging that partner network. Really going to be a two pivot points for me. I see that as great leverage for HP. At the end of the day, everyone talking about declining market of servers and storage. I actually don't see that. There's more computers available now, more storage available. The key is can that shift to true private cloud, which again is a 250 billion dollar market, partly declining. And hybrid cloud is certainly growing. So, declining and growing, I mean they're all different perspectives, and I think HP's messaging here-- Come the end of the show, we're going to look at that and understand and impact and unpack that, that analysis. So, I'm Jeff Furrier, Dave Vellante. Day one of coverage, of three days of wall to wall coverage at HPE Discover 2017. More live coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> We're here, about to go live, here in a selfie on the pre Silicon Valley Friday Show, about to go live for our show, for some live Friday. We've got a great lineup, it's on my Twitter. Donald Trump and all his viral tweets and now there's an algorithm out there that creates a shorting stock called Trump and Dump, we're going to be talking to the inventor of that new app. Bunch of other great stuff, controversy around Silicon Valley and Intel, controversy on Google, and we'll be watching a great show, well, hopefully you'll be watching. >> Male Announcer: Live, from Cube headquarters in Palo Alto, California it's the Silicon Valley Friday Show, with John Furrier. (serene techno music) >> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Silicon Valley Friday Show, I'm John Furrier, we are here live in Palo Alto, California for the Silicon Valley Friday Show every Friday morning we broadcast what's going on in Silicon Valley, what's going on in the streets, we call up people and find out what's going on, this show we've got a great lineup. We're going to talk about, I'll say, the news, Twitter, but we've got this fun segment where we have an algorithm, a bot, an AI bot that goes out there and takes all of Donald Trump's tweets and creates a shorting of the stock and creates making money, apparently, Donald Trump's tweets do move the market. We're going to talk about Snapchat, Snap Inc's IPO, and a refiling and some controversy going around that. Also, controversy around Intel Corporation that just announced a fab plant in Arizona and the CEO is in the White House making the announcement, giving the impression that Donald Trump was all behind this, turns out the CEO is a Republican and supports Donald Trump, when apparently this has been in the works for multiple years, so, not sure that's going to be a game changer for Trump but certainly Intel's taking advantage of the schmooze factor and the PR stunt that has people in Silicon Valley up in arms. Obviously, Intel is pro-immigration, bringing people in, obviously, Andy Grove was an immigrant, legend of Intel. And we have also tons of stuff going on, we're going to preview Mobile World Congress the big show in Barcelona at the end of the month. We're doing a two day special here, live in Pal Alto, we're going to do a special, new Silicon Valley version of Mobile World Congress. We'll give you a preview, we're going to talk to some analysts. And also, the fake news, fake accuracy, and all the stuff that's going on, what is fake news? What is inaccurate news? Is there a difference? Does it matter? It certainly does, we have an opinion on that so, great show lineup. First, is actually Twitter earnings are out and they kind of missed and hit their up on the monthly active uniques by two million people. A total of I think 300 million people are using the number here, just on my notes here says, that there are up to 319 million active, monthly active users. And of course, Trump has been taking advantage of Twitter and the Trump bump did not happen for Twitter, although some say Trump kept it alive. But Trump is using Twitter. And he's been actively on Twitter and is causing a lot of people, we've talked about it many times on the show, but the funniest thing that we've seen, and probably the coolest thing that's interesting is that there's an entrepreneur out there, an agency guy named Brian, Ben Gaddis, I'm sorry, president of T3. He's a branding guy, created viral videos on NPR, all over the news, went viral, he created an AI chatbot that essentially takes Donald Trump's tweets, analyzes any company mentioned and then instantly shorts the stock of that company. And apparently it's working, so we're going to take a look at that. We're also going to talk to him and find out what's going on. We're going to have Ben Rosenbaum on, we're going to have someone from Intel on, we have a lot of great guests, so let's take a look at this clip of the Trump and Dump and then we're going to talk to Ben right after. >> Announcer: T3 noticed something interesting about Twitter lately, particularly when this guy gets hold of it. Anytime a company mentions moving to Mexico or overseas or just doing something bad, he's on it, he tweets, the stock tanks. Tweet, tank. Tweet, tank. Tweet, tank. Everyone's talking about how to make sense of all this. T3 thought the unpredictability of it created a real opportunity. Meet the Trump and Dump automated trading platform. Trump and Dump is a bot powered by a complex algorithm that helps us short stocks ahead of the market. Here's how. Every time he tweets, the bot analyzes the tweet to see if a publicly traded company is mentioned. Then, the algorithm runs an instant sentiment analysis of the tweet in less than 20 milliseconds. It figures, positive or negative. A negative tweet triggers the bot to short the stock. Like earlier this month, his Toyota tweet immediately tanked the stock. But the Trump and Dump bot was out ahead of the market. It shorted the second after his tweet. As the stock tanked, we closed our short and we made a profit, huge profit. Oh, and we donated our profits here. So now, when President Trump tweets, we save a puppy. It's the Trump and Dump automated trading platform. Twitter monitoring, sentiment analysis, complex algorithms, real time stock trades. All fully automated, all in milliseconds. And all for a good cause. From your friends at T3. >> Okay, we're back here in Silicon Valley Friday Show, I'm John Furrier and you just saw the Trump and Dump, Trump and Dump video and the creator, that is Ben Gaddis on the phone, president of T3, a privately owned think tank focused on branding. Ben, thanks for joining us today. >> Thanks for having me, John. Excited to talk with you. >> So, big news NPR had on their page, which had the embed on there and it went viral. Great video, but first talk about the motivation, what's going on behind this video? This is very cool, explain to the folks out there what this Trump and Dump video is about, why did you create it, and how does it work? >> So, we had just like, I think, almost everyone in the United States, we were having a conversation about what do you do with the fact that President Trump is tweeting and tweeting about these companies, and in many cases negatively. So we saw articles talking about it and actually one day a guy in our New York office came up with this idea that we ought to follow those tweets in real time and if he mentions a publicly traded company negatively, short the stock. And so, we kicked that idea around over slack and in about 30 minutes we had an idea for the platform. And about two days later one of our engineers had actually built it. And so what the platform does is it's really actually simple yet complex. It listens to every tweet that the president puts out and then it does two things: it determines if there's a publicly traded company mentioned and if there is, and it actually does sentiment analysis in real time, so, in about 20 milliseconds, it can tell if the tweet is positive or negative. If it's negative, we've seen the stocks typically go down and we short sell that stock. And so, the profit that we develop from that, then we donate it to the ASPCA and then hopefully we save a puppy or two in the process. >> Yeah, and that's key, I think that's one thing I liked about this was you weren't arbitraging, you weren't like a real time seller like these finance guys on Wall Street, which by the way, have all these complex trading algorithms. Yours is very specific, the variables are basically Donald Trump, public company, and he tends to be kind of a negative Tweeter so, mostly to do with moving to Mexico or some sort of you know, slam or bullying kind of Tweet he does. And which moves the market, and this is interesting though, because you're teasing out something clever and cool on the AI kind of side of life and you know, some sort of semantic bot that essentially looks at some context and looks at the impact. But this is kind of the real world we're living in now, these kinds of statements from a president of the United States, or anyone who's in a position of authority, literally moves the market, so you're not doing it to make money you're doing it to prove a point which is that the responsibility here is all about getting exposed in the sense that you got to be careful of what you say on Twitter when you're the president of the United States. I mean, if it was me saying it, I mean, I'm not going to move the market but certainly, you know, the press who impact large groups of people and certainly the president does that so, did you guys have that in mind when you were thinking about this? >> Well, we did. I mean, I think, you know, our goal was, this is what we do for a living, we help big brands monitor all their digital presences and build digital strategy. So, we're already monitoring sentiment around Twitter and around social platforms so, it's pretty core to what we do. But we're also looking at things that are happening in pop culture and societally, what kind of impact social might have on business. And so, the fact that we're able to take an action and deliver a social action, and deliver a real business outcome is pretty core to what we do. What's different here and what's so unique is the fact that we've never really seen things like, policy, whether it's monetary policy, or just general policy be distributed through one platform like Twitter and have such a big impact. So, we think it's kind of a societal shift that is sort of the new norm. That, I don't know that if everyone has figured out what to do with yet and so our goal is to experiment and decide one, can we consume the information fast enough to take an action? And then how do we build through AI platforms that allow us to be smarter in the world that we're living in today that is very, very unpredictable. >> We have Ben Gaddis, as president of T3 also part of the group that did the Trump and Dump video but he brings out a great point about using data and looking at the collective impact of information in real time. And this interesting, I was looking at some of the impact last night in this and Nordstrom's had a tweet about Ivanka Trump and apparently Nordstrom's stock is up so, is there a flaw in the algorithm here? What's the take on that? Because in a way, that's the reverse of the bullying, he's defensive on that one so, is there a sentiment of him being more offensive or defensive? >> It's pretty standard. So, we're starting to see a pattern. So, what happens is that actually, the Nordstrom stock actually did go down right after the tweet. And so, we saw that that's a pattern that's typical when the president tweets negatively. When he tweets positively, we don't see that much of a bump. When he tweets negatively, typically the stock drops anywhere between one and four percent, sometimes even greater than that. But it rebounds very quickly. So, a big part of what we're trying to do with the bot and the algorithm is understand how long do we hold, and what is that timeframe before people actually come back to more of a rational state and start to buy back a stock that's valuable. Now what's really interesting, you mentioned, you know, the algorithm and whether there's a flaw in it, we learned something very interesting yesterday about Nordstrom's. So, the president tweeted and in that tweet he talked negatively about Nordstrom's, but he also talked very positively about his daughter, Ivanka. And so, the algorithm actually picked up that tweet and registered it as 61.5% positive. So, it didn't trade. So, we actually got kind of lucky on that one. >> You bring up a good point, and this is something that I want to get your thoughts on. You know, we live in an era of fake news, and it's just Snapchat just filed IPO filing to make a change in their filing to show that Amazon is going to be a billion dollar partner as well, which wasn't in the filing. So, there's a line between pure, fake news, which is essentially just made up stuff, and inaccurate news, so what you're kind of pointing out is a new mechanism to take advantage of the collective intelligence of real time information. And so this is kind of a new concept in the media business. And brands, who used to advertise with big media companies, are now involved in this so, as someone who's, you know, an architect for brand and understanding data, how are brands becoming more data driven? >> Well, I think what brands are realizing is that they live in this world that is more real time, that's such a buzzword. But more real time than I think they even thought would ever be possible, the fact that someone like the president can tweet and have literally cut off billions of dollars in market cap value in a moment's time is something that they have to figure out. So, I think the first thing is having the tools in place to actually monitor and understand, and then having a plan in place to react to things that are really quite unpredictable. So, not only, I don't think that you can have a plan for everything but you have to at least have a plan for understanding how you get legal approval on a response. Who would be responsible for that. You know, who do you work with, either through partners or inside of your organization to, you know, to be able to respond to something when you need to get back in promoting, you know, minutes versus hours. The thing that we don't hear people talk near as much about is, our goal was to see how close we can get to the information so we can zoom the data from Twitter's fire hose, so we get it hopefully when everyone else does. And then our goal is to take an action on that quicker than anybody else, and that delta is where we'll make a profit. What's really interesting to me is that the only person closer to that information than the president is Twitter. >> Ben, great to have you on, appreciate it, love to get you back on as a guest. We love to talk about is our model here, it's looking angle, it's extracting the signal from the noise. And certainly the game is changing, you're working with brands and the old model of ad agencies, this is a topic we love to cover here, the old ad agency model's certainly becoming much more platform oriented with data, these real time tools really super valuable, having a listening engine, having some actionable mechanisms to go out there and be part of and influence the conversation with information. Seems to be a good trend that you guys are really riding. Love to have you back on. >> We'd love to be back on, and thanks for the time, we enjoyed it. >> That was Ben Gaddis, who's the president of T3, the firm behind the Trump and Dump, but more importantly highlighting a really big megatrend which is the use of data, understanding its impact, having some analysis, and trying to figure out what that means for people. Be right back with more after this short break. >> [Female Announcer] Why wait for the future? The next evolution in IT infrastructure is happening now. 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Unify your data center with Cisco UCS. >> Male Announcer: You're listening to Cube Fridays, brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. Now, here's John Furrier. >> Okay, welcome back to the Silicon Valley Friday Show, I'm John Furrier, great show today. Our next guest is Dan Rosenbaum, who is the editor of Wearable Tech Insider, Media Probe, been around the industry for years, been a journalist, reporter, editor, variety through his career, knows the tech business certainly on the infrastructure level with the device. Okay, welcome to the show, great to have you, thanks for being available, he's in New York so, Palo Alto, New York connection here. >> Yeah, we got about maybe an hour or so of snow left. But you know, it's February, it does this in New York. >> Great to have you on, we were just talking on our earlier segment before the break about the guy who created the Trump and Dump video which is a chat bot that goes out, looks at Donald Trump's tweets, and then identifies if there's a public company, shorts the stock, and donates to save puppies. So, they're not doing it for profit but they're, you know, they have their intelligence and listening, and we were just riffing on the concept of that there's been fake news and inaccuracy and a new dynamic that's impacting the media business, which is real time information, data, and certainly the world that you're in with Wearables, this new internet of things, which is hard to understand for most common people but it's really the AI new connected network. It's really impacting things, certainly how people get information, how fast they create data, and it's changing the industry landscape certainly from a media standpoint. You get on TV and the mainstream... >> It really is. When the press secretary stood up and said that that the administration sees the media as the adversary, you know, everyone got sort of upset about it but you know, in a lot of ways it's true. That's a fitting way that the media and any administration, any power structure should be facing each other. There's been such a hop in the media to report the truth as best as it can determine and as accurately as it can. Now, there are differing impacts depending on which sphere you're in, and in politics there's always going to be sort of the tension, well, we think, we look at these facts and we think that and we look at those facts and think the other. >> I think ultimately this new formats that are developing really comes back down to I would add to that as trust. This is a collision course of a complete re-transformation of the media landscape and technology's at the heart of it and, you know, you're in the middle of it. With Wearables, you're seeing that at the edge of the network, these are new phenomenons. What's your take on this new trend of, you know, of computing? And I'm not saying singularity, as Ray Kurzweil would say, but you know, ultimately, it is going down to the point now where it's on your body, potentially in your body, but this is a new form of connection. What's your thoughts on this? >> 12 years ago, I was at the party where they launched MSNBC, and I ran into Andrew Lack, who's the CEO of MSNBC at the time, and asked him, why NBC was cutting this collaboration deal with Microsoft, because remember that's how it was started, when there wasn't any means for the news to go upwards. There was no way for citizen news gathering to be represented on this Microsoft-NBC co-venture. And Andrew actually looked down his nose at me, sneered, and goes, "Who in the world would want "people to be contributing to the news?" Well, now we're 10 or 12 years later and as you say, Snapchat and Skype, and all these mobile technologies have just transformed how people get their information, because they're now witnesses, and there are witnesses everywhere. One of the big transformations in, or about wearable technology is that computing infrastructure has moved from islands of stand-alone, massive computers, to networks of massive computers to stand-alone PCs, to networks to PCs, and now the model for computing and communication is the personal area network, the idea of sensor-based technologies is going to change, or already has changed the world of news, it's in the process of changing the world of medicine, it's in the process of changing the way we build houses, the construction business, with the smartphone, the way that we build and relate to cities. >> So, we're here with Dan Rosenbaum, he's the editor of Wearable Tech Insider, but more importantly he's been a tech insider in media going way back, he's seen the cycles of innovation. Love your point about the flowing conversations coming out of the MSNBC kind of executive in the old broadcast models. I mean, I have four kids, my oldest is 21, they don't use, they don't really care about cable TV anymore so, you know, this is now a new narrative so, those executives that are making those comments are either retired or will be dinosaurs. You now have Amazon, you have Netflix, you have, you know, folks, trying to look at this internet TV model where it's fully synchronous so, now you have collective intelligence of vertical markets that have real time ability to surface information up to bigger outlets. So, this collective media intelligence is happening, and it's all being driven by mobile technology. And with that being said, you know, you're in the business, we've got Mobile World Congress coming up, what is that show turning into? Because it's not about the mobile device anymore, the iPhone's 10 years old, that's a game changer. It's growing up. The impact of mobile is now beyond the device. >> Mobile World Congress is all about wireless infrastructure. It goes from everything from a one millimeter square sensor to the national grade wireless network. But what's really cool about Mobile World is that it's the place where communications or telecom ministers get together with infrastructure carriers, get together with the hardware manufacturers, and they hash out the problems that won't resolve five, 10, 15 years down the road in new products and new services. This is the place where everyone comes together. The back rooms at Mobile World Congress are the hottest place, and the back rooms are the places that you can't get into. >> We're here with Dan Rosenbaum, who's an industry veteran, also in the media frontlines in wireless technology, I mean, wearable technology and among other things, good view of the landscape. Final point, I want to just get a quick comment from ya, I was watching on Facebook, you had a great post around Facebook is feeding you an ad for a $19 million staid-in, let's feel Connecticut. And then you said, "One of us as the wrong idea, so you must be really loaded." This retargeting bullshit on Facebook is just ridiculous, I mean, come on, this bad, big data, isn't it? >> (laughing) Yeah, I mean, the boast of Google is that they want to make, you know, ads so relevant that they look like content. Well, in the process to getting there, there's going to be misses. You know, if this real estate agent decides that they want to hit everyone in my zip code, or everyone in my county, or whatever, and they wanted pay the five dollars so that I'd see that video, god bless 'em, let 'em do it, it's not going to make me, it's not going to overcome any kind of sales resistance. I don't know that I wanted to move up to Litchfield, Connecticut anyway, but if I did, sure, a $19 million house would be really nice. >> You could take a chopper into Manhattan, you know, just drop into Manhattan with a helicopter. >> They would want to take it. >> Alright, we can always take the helicopter in from Litchfield, you know, right at the top of your building. Dan, thanks so much for spending the time, really appreciate it, and we'll have to bring, circle back with you on our two day Mobile World Congress special in Palo Alto we'll be doing, so appreciate the time. Thanks a lot. >> Love to do it, thanks for having me. >> Okay, that was Dan Rosenbaum, really talking about, going down in the weeds a little bit but really more importantly, this Mobile World Congress, what's going on with this new trend, digital transformation really is about the impact to the consumer. And what's going on Silicon Valley right now is there's some hardcore tech that is changing the game from what we used to know as a device. The iPhone's only 10 years old, yet 10 years old, before the iPhone, essentially it was a phone, you made phone calls, maybe surf the Web through some bad browser and do text messages. That's now completely transforming, not just the device, it's the platform, so what we're going to see is new things that are happening and the tell signs are there. Self driving cars, autonomous vehicles, drones delivering packages from Amazon, a completely new, digitized world is coming. This is the real trend and we're going to have an executive from Intel on next to tell us kind of what's going on because Intel is at the ground zero of the innovation with Moore's Law and the integrated circuit. But they're bringing their entire Intel inside as a global platform, and this is really going to be driven through a ton of 5G, a new technology so, we're going to dig in on that, and we're going to have a call-in from her, she's going to be coming in from Oregon and again, we're going to get down to the engineers, the people making the chips under the hood and bringing that to you here on the Silicon Valley Friday Show, I'm John Furrier, we'll be right back after this short break. >> My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm a long-time industry analyst. So, when you're as old as I am you've seen a lot of transitions. Everybody talks about industry cycles and waves, I've seen many, many waves. I've seen a lot of industry executives and I'm a little bit of an industry historian. When you interview many thousands of people, probably five or six thousand people as I have over the last half of the decade, you get to interact with a lot of people's knowledge. And you begin to develop patterns so, that's sort of what I bring is an ability to catalyze a conversation and, you know, share that knowledge with others in the community. Our philosophy is everybody is an expert at something, everybody's passionate about something and has real deep knowledge about that something. Well, we want to focus in on that area and extract that knowledge and share with our communities. This is Dave Vellante, and thanks for watching the Cube. (serene techno music) >> Male Announcer: You're listening to the Silicon Valley Friday Show with John Furrier. >> Okay, welcome back to the Silicon Valley Friday Show, I'm John Furrier, we're here in Palo Alto for this Friday Show, we're going to go under the hood and get into some technology impact around what's going on in the industry, specifically kind of as a teaser for Mobile World Congress at the end of the month, it's a big show in Barcelona, Spain where the whole mobile and infrastructure industry comes together, it's kind of like CES, Consumer Electronics Show, in the mobile world but it's evolved in a big way and it's certainly impacting everyone in the industry and all consumers and businesses. This is Intel's Lynn Comp and this is Intel who, we know about Moore's Law, we know all about the chips that make everything happen, Intel has been the engine of innovation of the PC revolutions, it's been the engine of innovation now in the Cloud and as Intel looks at the next generation, they are the key player in this transformation that we are seeing with AI, wearable computers, internet of things, self driving cars, AI, this is all happening, new stuff's going on. Lynn, welcome to the program. >> Thank you so much, it's great to be here. >> So, you're up in Oregon, thanks for taking the time to allow us to talk via phone, appreciate it. Obviously, Intel, we've been following you guys, and I've been a big fan since 1987, when I almost worked there right out of college. Went to Hewlett Packard instead, but that's a different story but, great, great innovation over the years, Intel has been the bell weather in the tech industry, been a big part of the massive change. But now, as you look at the next generation, I mean, I have four kids and they don't watch cable TV, they don't like, they don't do the things that we used to do, they're on the mobile phone all the time. And the iPhone is now 10 years old as of this year, this early winter part of this, Steve Jobs announced it 10 years ago. And what a change has it been, it's moved from telephone calls to a computer that happens to have software that makes telephone calls. This is a game changer. But now it seems that Mobile World Congress has changed from being a telephone centric, voice centric, phone device centric show to a software show, it seems to be that software is eating the world just like CES is turning into an automotive show. What is Mobile World Congress turning into? What's the preview from Intel's perspective? >> You know, it's a really fascinating question because many years ago, you would only see a bunch of very, very intense base station design, you know, it was very, very oriented around wireless, wireless technology, and radios, and those are really important because they're an engine of fabric that you can build capabilities onto. But last year, just as a reference point for how much it's changed, we have Facebook giving one of the main keynotes. And they're known for their software, they're known for social media, and so you'll see Facebook and Google with an exhibitor there last year as well, so you're not just seeing suppliers into the traditional wireless industry for equipment and the operators who are the purchaser, you're seeing many, many different players show up very much like how you said CES has a lot of automotives there now. >> Yeah, we've seen a lot of revolutions in the computer industry, Intel created a revolution called the Computer Revolution, the PC Revolution, and then it became kind of an evolution, that seems to be the big trends you see, that cycle. But it seems now that we are, kind of been doing the evolution of mobile computing, and my phone gets better, 10 years down to the iPhone, 3G, 4G, LT, okay, I want more bandwidth, of course, but is there a revolution? Where can you point to? Where is the revolution, versus just standard evolutionary kind of trends? Is there something coming out of this that we're going to see? >> That is such a great question because when you look at the first digital wireless technologies that came out and then you had 2G, and 3G, and 4G, those really were evolutionary. And what we're finding with 5G that I believe is going to be a huge theme at Mobile World Congress this year is it is a completely different ballgame, I would say it's more of an inflection point or very revolutionary. And there's a couple reasons for that, both tie up in how ITU is specifying the use cases, it's licensed and unlicensed spectrum which is kind of unusual for how it's been done if you will get 2, 3, and 4G. The other thing that's really interesting about 5G, that it's an inflection point is there's a lot more intelligence assumed in the network and it helps address some of the challenges I think that the industry is seeing a different industry with some of the IoT promise we'll roll out where some of the macro design networks that we'd seen in the past, the ability to have the right latency, the right bandwidth, and the right cost matched to the needs of a specific IoT use case was much more limited in the past and I think we'll see a lot more opportunities moving forward. >> Great, great stuff, we're with Lynn Comp with the Network Platforms Group at Intel. You know, you bring up some, I like the way you're going with this, there's so much like, impact to society going on with these big, big trends. But also I was just having a conversation with some young folks here in Palo Alto, high school kids and some college kids and they're all jazzed up about AI, you can almost see the... I don't want to say addiction but fascination and intoxication with technology. And there's some real hardcore good tech going on here, could you just share your thoughts on, you know, what are some of those things that are going to, 'cause I mean, 5G to wireless, I get that, but I mean, you know, these kids that we talked to and folks that are in the next generation, they love the autonomous vehicles. But sometimes I can't get a phone signal, how are cars going to talk to each other? I mean, how does this, I mean, you've got to pull this together. And these kids are like, and it's into these new careers. What's your thoughts on what are some of the game changing tech challenges that are coming out of this? >> Let's just start with something that was a great example this year 'cause I think I have kids a similar age. And I had been skeptical of things like even just virtual reality, a augmented or virtual reality. And then we had this phenomena last summer that really was just a hint, it wasn't really augmented reality, but it was a hint of the demand that could be met by it and it's Pokemon Go. And so, an example with that, I mean, it really wasn't asking a significantly higher amount of data off the network, but it did change the use profile for many of the coms service providers and many of the networks where they realized I actually have to change the architecture, not just of what's at the edge but in my core network, to be more responsive and flexible, you are going to see something even more so with autonomous driving, even if it's just driver assist. And similar to how the auto pilot evolution happened, you're still going to have these usage patterns where people have too many demands, too much information coming at them, they do want that assistance, or they do want that augmented experience to interact with a brand, and it's going to really stress the network and there's going to have to be a lot of innovation about where some of these capabilities are placed and how much intelligence is close to the user as opposed to just a radio, probably going to need a lot more analytics and a lot more machine learning capabilities there as well. >> We had a segment earlier in the show, it was the entrepreneur who created the Trump and Dump chat bot that would go out and read Donald Trump's tweets and then short all public companies that were mentioned because the trend is, they would do that, but this is an example of some of these chat bots and some of this automation that's going on and it kind of brings the question up to some of the technology challenges that we're looking out at the landscape that we're discussing is the role of data really is a big deal and software and data now have an interaction play where you got to move data around the networks, networks are now ubiquitous, networks are now on people, networks are now in cars, networks are now part of all this, I won't say unstructured networks, but omni-connected fabric. So, data can really change what looks like an optimal architecture to a failed one, if you don't think about it properly. So, how do you guys at Intel think about the role of data? I mean, how do you build the new chips and how do you look at the landscape? And it must be a big consideration, what's your thoughts about the role of data? Because it can happen at any time, a tsunami of data could hit anything. >> Right, the tsunami of data. So for us, it's any challenge, and this is just in Intel's DNA, historically, we'll get challenges as opportunities because we love to solve these really big problems. And so, when you're talking about data moving around a network you're talking about transformation of the network. We've been having a lot of discussions with operators where they see the data tsunami, they're already seeing it, and they realized, I have got to reconfigure the architecture of my network to leverage these technologies and these capabilities in a way that's relevant for the regulatory environment I'm in. But I still have to be flexible, I have to be agile, I have to be leveraging programmability instead of having to rewrite software every generation or every time a new app comes out. >> Lynn, thanks so much for coming on. Like we always say, you know, engine room more power, you can never have enough compute power available in network bandwidth, as far as I'm concerned. You know, we'd love to increase the power, Moore's Law's been just a great thing, keeps on chugging along. Thanks for your time and joining us on the Silicon Valley Friday Show, appreciate it. Thanks so much. >> Thank you. >> Alright, take care. Okay, this is Silicon Valley Friday Show, I'm John Furrier, thanks so much for listening. I had Ben Gaddis on, Dan Rosenbaum, and Lynn Comp from Intel really breaking it down and bringing you all the best stories of the week here on the Silicon Valley, thanks for watching. (techno music) (bright instrumental music)