(Inspiring rock music) >> Hey everyone, I'm Lisa Martin covering Data Citizens 22 brought to you by Collibra. This next conversation is going to focus on the importance of data culture. One of our Cube alumni is back; Stan Christians is Collibra's co-founder and it's Chief Data citizen. Stan, it's great to have you back on theCUBE. >> Hey Lisa, nice to be here. >> So we're going to be talking about the importance of data culture, data intelligence, maturity all those great things. When we think about the data revolution that every business is going through, you know, it's so much more than technology innovation; it also really requires cultural transformation, community transformation. Those are challenging for customers to undertake. Talk to us about what you mean by data citizenship and the role that creating a data culture plays in that journey. >> Right. So as you know, our event is called Data Citizens because we believe that, in the end, a data citizen is anyone who uses data to do their job. And we believe that today's organizations you have a lot of people, most of the employees in an organization, are somehow going to be a data citizen, right? So you need to make sure that these people are aware of it, you need to make sure that these people have the skills and competencies to do with data what is necessary, and that's on all levels, right? So what does it mean to have a good data culture? It means that if you're building a beautiful dashboard to try and convince your boss we need to make this decision, that your boss is also open to and able to interpret, you know, the data presented in the dashboard to actually make that decision and take that action. Right? And once you have that "Why" to the organization that's when you have a good data culture. That's a continuous effort for most organizations because they're always moving somehow, they're hiring new people. And it has to be a continuous effort because we've seen that, on the one hand, organizations continue to be challenged with controlling their data sources and where all the data is flowing right? Which in itself creates lot of risk, but also on the other hand of the equation, you have the benefits, you know, you might look at regulatory drivers like we have to do this, right? But it's, it's much better right now to consider the competitive drivers for example. And we did an IDC study earlier this year, quite interesting, I can recommend anyone to read it, and one of the conclusions they found as they surveyed over a thousand people across organizations worldwide, is that the ones who are higher in maturity, so the organizations that really look at data as an asset, look at data as a product and actively try to be better at it don't have three times as good a business outcome as the ones who are lower on the maturity scale, right? So you can say, okay, I'm doing this, you know, data culture for everyone, awakening them up as data citizens. I'm doing this for competitive reasons. I'm doing this for regulatory reasons. You're trying to bring both of those together. And the ones that get data intelligence, right, are just going to be more successful and more competitive. That's our view and that's what we're seeing out there in the market. >> Absolutely. We know that just generally, Stan, right, The organizations that are really creating a a data culture and enabling everybody within the organization to become data citizens are, we know that, in theory, they're more competitive, they're more successful, But the IDC study that you just mentioned demonstrates they're three times more successful and competitive than their peers. Talk about how Collibra advises customers to create that community, that culture of data when it might be challenging for an organization to adapt culturally. >> Of course, of course it's difficult for an organization to adapt, but it's also necessary as you just said, imagine that, you know, you're a modern day organization, phones, laptops, what have you. You're not using those IT assets, right? Or you know, you're delivering them throughout the organization, but not enabling your colleagues to actually do something with that asset. Same thing is true with data today, right, if you're not properly using the data asset, and your competitors are, they're going to get more advantage. So as to how you get this done or how you establish this culture there's a few angles to look at, I would say. So one angle is obviously the leadership angle whereby whoever is the boss of data in the organization you typically have multiple bosses there, like a chief Data Officer, sometimes there's multiple, but they may have a different title, right? So I'm just going to summarize it as a data leader for a second. So whoever that is, they need to make sure that there's a clear vision, a clear strategy for data. And that strategy needs to include the monetization aspect. How are you going to get value from data? >> Lisa: Yes. >> Now, that's one part because then you can clearly see the example of your leadership in the organization, and also the business value, and that's important because those people, their job, in essence, really is to make everyone in the organization think about data as an asset. And I think that's the second part of the equation of getting that go to right is it's not enough to just have that leadership out there but you also have to get the hearts and minds of the data champions across the organization. You really have to win them over. And if you have those two combined, and obviously good technology to, you know, connect those people and have them execute on their responsibilities such as a data intelligence platform like ePlus, then you have the pieces in place to really start upgrading that culture inch by inch, if you will. >> Yes, I like that. The recipe for success. So you are the co-founder of Collibra. You've worn many different hats along this journey. Now you're building Collibra's own data office. I like how, before we went live, we were talking about Collibra is drinking its own champagne. I always loved to hear stories about that. You're speaking at Data Citizens 2022. Talk to us about how you are building a data culture within Collibra and what, maybe some of the specific projects are that Collibra's data office is working on. >> Yes. And it is indeed data citizens. There are a ton of speakers here, very excited. You know, we have Barb from MIT speaking about data monetization. We have DJ Patil at the last minute on the agenda so really exciting agenda, can't wait to get back out there. But essentially you're right. So over the years at Collibra, we've been doing this now since 2008, so a good 15 years, and I think we have another decade of work ahead in the market, just to be very clear. Data is here to stick around, as are we, and myself, you know, when you start a company we were four people in a garage, if you will, so everybody's wearing all sorts of hat at that time. But over the years I've run pre-sales at Collibra, I've run post sales, partnerships, product, et cetera, and as our company got a little bit biggish, we're now 1,200 something like that, people in the company I believe, systems and processes become a lot more important, right? So we said, you know, Collibra isn't the size of our customers yet, but we're getting there in terms of organization, structure, process systems et cetera. So we said it's really time for us to put our money where our mouth is, and to set up our own data office, which is what we were seeing that all of our customers are doing, and which is what we're seeing that organizations worldwide are doing and Gartner was predicting as well. They said, okay, organizations have an HR unit, they have a finance unit, and over time they'll all have a department, if you will, that is responsible somehow for the data. >> Lisa: Hm. >> So we said, okay, let's try to set an example with Collibra. Let's set up our own data office in such a way that other people can take away with it, right? Can take away from it? So we set up a data strategy, we started building data products, took care of the data infrastructure, that sort of good stuff, And in doing all of that, Lisa, exactly as you said, we said, okay, we need to also use our own products and our own practices, right? And from that use, learn how we can make the product better, learn how we can make the practice better and share that learning with all of the markets, of course. And on Monday mornings, we sometimes refer to that as eating our own dog foods, Friday evenings, we refer to that as drinking our own champagne. >> Lisa: I like it. >> So we, we had a (both chuckle) We had the drive do this, you know, there's a clear business reason, so we involved, we included that in the data strategy and that's a little bit of our origin. Now how, how do we organize this? We have three pillars, and by no means is this a template that everyone should follow. This is just the organization that works at our company, but it can serve as an inspiration. So we have pillars, which is data science, The data product builders, if you will or the people who help the business build data products, we have the data engineers who help keep the lights on for that data platform to make sure that the products, the data products, can run, the data can flow and, you know, the quality can be checked. And then we have a data intelligence or data governance pillar where we have those data governance data intelligence stakeholders who help the business as a sort of data partners to the business stakeholders. So that's how we've organized it. And then we started following the Collibra approach, which is, well, what are the challenges that our business stakeholders have in HR, finance, sales, marketing all over? And how can data help overcome those challenges? And from those use cases, we then just started to build a roadmap, and started execution on use case after use case. And a few important ones there are very simple, we see them with all our customers as well, people love talking about the catalog, right? The catalog for the data scientists to know what's in their data lake, for example, and for the people in Deagle and privacy, So they have their process registry, and they can see how the data flows. So that's a popular starting place and that turns into a marketplace so that if new analysts and data citizens join Collibra, they immediately have a place to go to to look at what data is out there for me as an analyst or data scientist or whatever, to do my job, right? So they can immediately get access to the data. And another one that we did is around trusted business reporting. We're seeing that, since 2008, you know, self-service BI allowed everyone to make beautiful dashboards, you know, by pie charts. I always, my pet peeve is the pie charts because I love pie, and you shouldn't always be using pie charts, but essentially there's become proliferation of those reports. And now executives don't really know, okay, should I trust this report or that report? They're reporting on the same thing but the numbers seem different, right? So that's why we have trusted business reporting. So we know if the reports, the dashboard, a data product essentially, is built, we know that all the right steps are being followed, and that whoever is consuming that can be quite confident in the result. >> Lisa: Right, and that confidence is absolutely key. >> Exactly. Yes. >> Absolutely. Talk a little bit about some of the the key performance indicators that you're using to measure the success of the data office. What are some of those KPIs? >> KPIs and measuring is a big topic in the chief data officer profession I would say, and again, it always varies, with respect to your organization, but there's a few that we use that might be of interest to you. So remember you have those three pillars, right? And we have metrics across those pillars. So, for example, a pillar on the data engineering side is going to be more related to that uptime, right? Is the data platform up and running? Are the data products up and running? Is the quality in them good enough? Is it going up? Is it going down? What's the usage? But also, and especially if you're in the cloud and if consumption's a big thing, you have metrics around cost, for example, right? So that's one set of examples. Another one is around the data signs and the products. Are people using them? Are they getting value from it? Can we calculate that value in a monetary perspective, right? >> Lisa: Yes. >> So that we can, to the rest of the business, continue to say, "We're tracking all those numbers and those numbers indicate that value is generated" and how much value estimated in that region. And then you have some data intelligence, data governance metrics, which is, for example you have a number of domains in a data mesh [Indistinct] People talk about being the owner a data domain for example, like product or customer. So how many of those domains do you have covered? How many of them are already part of the program? How many of them have owners assigned? How well are these owners organized, executing on their responsibilities? How many tickets are open? Closed? How many data products are built according to process? And so on and so forth, so these are a set of examples of KPI's. There's a lot more but hopefully those can already inspire the audience. >> Absolutely. So we've, we've talked about the rise of cheap data offices, it's only accelerating. You mentioned this is like a 10-year journey. So if you were to look into a crystal ball, what do you see, in terms of the maturation of data offices over the next decade? >> So we, we've seen, indeed, the role sort of grow up. I think in 2010 there may have been like, 10 chief data officers or something, Gartner has exact numbers on them. But then they grew, you know, 400's they were like mostly in financial services, but they expanded them to all industries and the number is estimated to be about 20,000 right now. >> Wow. >> And they evolved in a sort of stack of competencies, defensive data strategy, because the first chief data officers were more regulatory driven, offensive data strategy, support for the digital program and now all about data products, right? So as a data leader, you now need all those competences and need to include them in your strategy. How is that going to evolve for the next couple of years? I wish I had one of those crystal balls, right? But essentially, I think for the next couple of years there's going to be a lot of people, you know, still moving along with those four levels of the stack. A lot of people I see are still in version one and version two of the chief data officers. So you'll see, over the years that's going to evolve more digital and more data products. So for the next three, five years, my prediction is it's all going to be about data products because it's an immediate link between the data and the dollar essentially. >> Right. >> So that's going to be important and quite likely a new, some new things will be added on, which nobody can predict yet. But we'll see those pop up a few years. I think there's going to be a continued challenge for the chief data officer role to become a real executive role as opposed to, you know, somebody who claims that they're executive, but then they're not, right? So the real reporting level into the board, into the CEO for example, will continue to be a challenging point. But the ones who do get that done, will be the ones that are successful, and the ones who get that done will be the ones that do it on the basis of data monetization, right? Connecting value to the data and making that very clear to all the data citizens in the organization, right? >> Right, really creating that value chain. >> In that sense they'll need to have both, you know, technical audiences and non-technical audiences aligned of course, and they'll need to focus on adoption. Again, it's not enough to just have your data office be involved in this. It's really important that you are waking up data citizens across the organization and you make everyone in the organization think about data as an essence. >> Absolutely, because there's so much value that can be extracted if organizations really strategically build that data office and democratize access across all those data citizens. Stan, this is an exciting arena. We're definitely going to keep our eyes on this. Sounds like a lot of evolution and maturation coming from the data office perspective. From the data citizen perspective. And as the data show, that you mentioned in that IDC study you mentioned Gartner as well. Organizations have so much more likelihood of being successful and being competitive. So we're going to watch this space. Stan, thank you so much for joining me on theCUBE at Data Citizens 22. We appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me over. >> From Data Citizens 22, I'm Lisa Martin you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. (inspiring rock music) >> Okay, this concludes our coverage of Data Citizens 2022 brought to you by Collibra. Remember, all these videos are available on demand at theCUBE.net. And don't forget to check out siliconangle.com for all the news and wikibon.com for our weekly breaking analysis series where we cover many data topics and share survey research from our partner ETR, Enterprise Technology Research. If you want more information on the products announced at Data Citizens, go to Collibra.com. There are tons of resources there. You'll find analyst reports, product demos. It's really worthwhile to check those out. Thanks for watching our program and digging into Data Citizens 2022 on theCUBE Your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We'll see you soon. (inspiring rock music continues)

>>Hey everyone. I'm Lisa Martin covering Data Citizens 22, brought to you by Collibra. This next conversation is gonna focus on the importance of data culture. One of our Cube alumni is back, Stan Christians is Collibra's co-founder and it's Chief Data citizen. Stan, it's great to have you back on the cube. >>Hey, Lisa, nice to be here. >>So we're gonna be talking about the importance of data culture, data intelligence, maturity, all those great things. When we think about the data revolution that every business is going through, you know, so much more than technology innovation, it also really re requires cultural transformation, community transformation. Those are challenging for customers to undertake. Talk to us about what you mean by data citizenship and the role that creating a data culture plays in that journey. >>Right. So as you know, our event is called Data Citizens because we believe that in the end, a data citizen is anyone who uses data to do their job. And we believe that today's organizations, you have a lot of people, most of the employees in an organization are somehow going to be a data citizen, right? So you need to make sure that these people are aware of it. You need to make sure that these people have the skills and competencies to do with data what is necessary. And that's on all levels, right? So what does it mean to have a good data culture? It means that if you're building a beautiful dashboard to try and convince your boss, we need to make this decision that your boss is also open to and able to interpret, you know, the data presented in that dashboard to actually make that decision and take that action, right? >>And once you have that why through the organization, that's when you have a good data culture. Now, that's a continuous effort for most organizations because they, they're always moving, somehow there, hiring new people. And it has to be a continuous effort because we've seen that on the one hand, organizations continue to be challenged with controlling their data sources and where all the data is flowing, right? Which in itself creates a lot of risk. But also on the other set hand of the equation, you have the benefits. You know, you might look at regulatory drivers like, we have to do this, right? But it's, it's much better right now to consider the competitive drivers, for example. And we did an IDC study earlier this year, quite interesting. I can recommend anyone to read it. And one of the conclusions they found as they surveyed over a thousand people across organizations worldwide is that the ones who are higher in maturity. >>So the, the organizations that really look at data as an asset, look at data as a product and actively try to be better at it, don't have three times as good a business outcome as the ones who are lower on the maturity scale, right? So you can say, Okay, I'm doing this, you know, data culture for everyone, wakening them up as data citizens. I'm doing this for competitive reasons, I'm doing this for regulatory reasons. You're trying to bring both of those together and the ones that get data intelligence right, are just going to be more successful and more competitive. That's our view, and that's what we're seeing out there in the market. >>Absolutely. We know that just generally stand right, The organizations that are, are really creating a, a data culture and enabling everybody within the organization to become data citizens are, We know that in theory they're more competitive, they're more successful. But the IDC study that you just mentioned demonstrates they're three times more successful and competitive than their peers. Talk about how Collibra advises customers to create that community, that culture of data when it might be challenging for an organization to adapt culturally. >>Of course, of course it's difficult for an organization to adapt, but it's also necessary, as you just said, imagine that, you know, you're a modern day organization, phones, laptops, what have you, you're not using those IT assets, right? Or you know, you're delivering them through your, throughout the organization, but not enabling your colleagues to actually do something with that asset. Same thing is true with data today, right? If you are not properly using the data assets and your competitors are, they're going to get more advantage. So as to how you get this zone or how you establish this culture, there's a few angles to look at. I would say, Lisa, so one angle is obviously the leadership angle whereby whoever is the boss of data in the organization, you typically have multiple bosses there, like achieve data officers. Sometimes there's, there's multiple, but they may have a different title, right? >>So I'm just gonna summarize it as a data leader for a second. So whoever that is, they need to make sure that there's a clear vision, a clear strategy for data. And that strategy needs to include the monetization aspect. How are you going to get value from data? Yes. Now that's one part because then you can clearly see the example of your leadership in the organization and also the business value. And that's important because those people, their job in essence really is to make everyone in the organization think about data as an asset. And I think that's the second part of the equation of getting that culture right, is it's not enough to just have that leadership out there, but you also have to get the hearts and minds of the data champions across the organization. You really have to win them over. And if you have those two combined and obviously a good technology to, you know, connect those people and have them execute on their responsibilities, such as as a data intelligence platform like Colibra, then you have the pieces in place to really start upgrading that culture inch by inch if youll, >>Yes, I like that. The recipe for success. So you are the co-founder of colibra. You've worn many different hats along this journey. Now you're building Collibra's own data office. I like how before we went live, we were talking about Collibra is drinking its own champagne. I always loved to hear stories about that. You're speaking at Data Citizens 2022. Talk to us about how you are building a data culture within Collibra and what maybe some of the specific projects are that Collibra's data office is working on. >>Yes, and it is indeed data citizens. There are a ton of speakers here, very excited. You know, we have Barb from MIT speaking about data monetization. We have dig pat at the last minute on the agenda. So really exciting agenda. Can't wait to get back out there. But essentially you're right. So over the years at cbra, we've been doing this now since 2008, so a good 15 years. And I think we have another decade of work ahead in the market, just to be very clear. Data is here to stick around as are we. And myself, you know, when you start a company, we were for people in a, in a garage if you will. So everybody's wearing all sorts of hat at that time. But over the years I've run, you know, pre-sales at colibra, I've run post-sales partnerships, product, et cetera. And as our company got a little bit biggish for now, 1,200, something like that, people in the company, I believe systems and processes become a lot more important, right? >>So we said, you know, Colibra isn't the size of our customers yet, but we're getting there in terms of organizations, structure, process systems, et cetera. So we said, it's really time for us to put our money where our mouth is and to set up our own data office, which is what we were seeing at all of our customers are doing, and which is what we're seeing that organizations worldwide are doing. And Gartner was predicting us as well. They said, Okay, organizations have an HR unit, they have a finance unit, and over time they'll all have a department, if you will, that is responsible somehow for the data. So we said, Okay, let's try to set a an example at cbra. Let's try to set up our own data office and such way that other people can take away with it, right? Can take away from it. >>So we set up a data strategy, we started building data products, took care of the data infrastructure, that sort of good stuff. And in doing all of that, Lisa, exactly as you said, we said, okay, we need to also use our own product and our own practices, right? And from that use, learn how we can make the product better, learn how we can make the practice better, and share that learning with all of the markets of course. And on, on the Monday mornings, we sometimes refer to that as eating our own dog foods or Friday evenings we refer to that as drinking our own champagne. I like it. So we, we had a, we had the driver to do this, you know, there's a clear business reason. So we involved, we included that in the data strategy and that's a little bit of our origin. >>Now how, how do we organize this? We have three pillars, and by no means is this a template that everyone should follow? This is just the organization that works at our company, but it can serve as an inspiration. So we have a pillar, which is data science. The data product builders if you will, or the people who help the business build data products. We have the data engineers who help keep the lights on for that data platform to make sure the products, the data products can run, the data can flow and you know, the quality can be checked. And then we have a data intelligence or data governance builder where we have those data governance, data intelligence stakeholders who help the business as a sort of data partner to the business stakeholders. So that's how we've organized it. And then we started following the calibra approach, which is, well, what are the challenges that our business stakeholders have in hr, finance, sales, marketing all over? >>And how can data help overcome those challenges? And from those use cases, we then just started to build a roadmap and started execution on use case after use case. And a few important ones there are very simple, we see them with our, all our customers as well. People love talking about the catalog, right? The catalog for the data scientists to know what's in their data lake, for example, and for the people in and legal and privacy. So they have their process registry and they can see how the data flows. So that's a popular starting place. And that turns into a marketplace so that if new analysts and data citizens join cbra, they immediately have a place to go to, to look and see, okay, what data is out there for me as an analyst or a data scientist or whatever to do my job, right? >>So they can immediately get access to the data. And another one that we did is around trusted business reporting. We're seeing that since 2008. You know, self-service BI allowed everyone to make beautiful dashboards, you know, by pie charts. I always, my pet peeve is the pie charts because I love buy and you shouldn't always be using pie charts. But essentially there's become proliferation of those reports. And now executives don't really know, okay, should I trust this report or that report the reporting on the same thing. But the numbers seem different, right? So that's why we have trusted business reporting. So we know if a report, a dashboard, a data product essentially is built, we know that all the right steps are being followed and that whoever is consuming that can be quite confident in the result either right, in that silver or browser Absolutely key. Exactly. Yes. A absolutely. >>Talk a little bit about some of the, the key performance indicators that you're using to measure the success of the data office. What are some of those KPIs? >>KPIs and measuring is a big topic in the, in the data chief data officer profession, I would say, and again, it always varies with respect to your organization, but there's a few that we use that might be of interest to you. So remember we have those three pillars, right? And we have metrics across those pillars. So for example, a pillar on the data engineering side is gonna be more related to that uptime, right? Audit is a data platform up and running. Are the data products up and running? Is the quality in them good enough? Is it going up? Is it going down? What's the usage? But also, and especially if you're in the cloud and if consumption is a big thing, you have metrics around cost, for example, right? So that's one set of examples. Another one is around the data science and the products. >>Are people using them? Are they getting value from it? Can we calculate that value in a monetary perspective, right? So that we can to the rest of the business continue to say we're tracking on those numbers. And those numbers indicate that value is generated and how much value estimated in that region. And then you have some data intelligence, data governance metrics, which is, for example, you have a number of domains in a data mesh. People talk about being the owner of a data domain, for example, like product or customer. So how many of those domains do you have covered? How many of them are already part of the program? How many of them have owners assigned? How well are these owners organized, executing on their responsibilities? How many tickets are open closed? How many data products are built according to process? And so on and so forth. So these are an a set of examples of, of KPIs. There's a, there's a lot more, but hopefully those can already inspire the audience. >>Absolutely. So we've, we've talked about the rise of cheap data offices, it's only accelerating. You mentioned this is like a 10 year journey. So if you were to look into a crystal ball, what do you see in terms of the maturation of data offices over the next decade? >>So we, we've seen indeed the, the role sort of grow up, I think in, in 2010 there may have been like 10 chief data officers or something. Gartner has exact numbers on them, but then they grew, you know, 400, they were like mostly in financial services, but they expanded then to all of industries and then to all of the season. The number is estimated to be about 20,000 right now. Wow. And they evolved in a sort of stack of competencies, defensive data strategy, because the first chief data officers were more regulatory driven, offensive data strategy support for the digital program. And now all about data products, right? So as a data leader, you'd now need all of those competences and need to include them in, in your strategy. >>How is that going to evolve for the next couple of years? I wish I had one of those crystal balls, right? But essentially I think for the next couple of years there's gonna be a lot of people, you know, still moving along with those four levels of the stack. A lot of people I see are still in version one and version two of the chief data officer. So you'll see over the years that's going to evolve more digital and more data products. So for next three, five years, my, my prediction is it's all going to be about data products because it's an immediate link between the data and, and the dollar essentially, right? So that's gonna be important and quite likely a new, some new things will be added on, which nobody can predict yet. But we'll see those pop up in a few years. >>I think there's gonna be a continued challenge for the chief data officer role to become a real executive role as opposed to, you know, somebody who claims that they're executive, but then they're not. Right? So the real reporting level into the board, into the CEO for example, will continue to be a challenging point. But the ones who do get that done will be the ones that are successful. Yeah. And the ones who get that done will be the ones that do it on the basis of data monetization, right? Connecting value to the data and making that very clear to all the data citizens in the organization, right? Really and in that sense, value chain, they'll need to have both, you know, technical audiences and non-technical audiences aligned of course. And they'll need to focus on adoption. Again, it's not enough to just have your data office be involved in this. It's really important that you're waking up data citizens across the organization and you make everyone in the organization think about data as an essence. >>Absolutely. Because there's so much value that can be extracted if organizations really strategically build that data office and democratize access across all those data citizens. Stan, this is an exciting arena. We're definitely gonna keep our eyes on this. Sounds like a lot of evolution and maturation coming from the data office perspective. From the data citizen perspective. And as the data show that you mentioned in that IDC study, you mentioned Gartner as well, organizations have so much more likelihood of being successful in being competitive. So we're gonna watch this space. Stan, thank you so much for joining me on the queue at Data Citizens 22. We appreciate it. >>Thanks for having me over >>From Data Citizens 22, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage.

>>From around the globe. It's the Cube covering data citizens 21 brought to you by culebra. Hello everyone john walls here as we continue our cube conversations here as part of Data citizens 21 the conference ongoing caliber at the heart of that really at the heart of data these days and helping companies and corporations make sense. All of those data chaos that they're dealing with, trying to provide new insights, new analyses being a lot more efficient and effective with your data. That's what culebra is all about and their founder and their Chief data Citizen if you will stand christians joins us today and stan I love that title. Chief Data Citizen. What is that all about? What does that mean? >>Hey john thanks for having me over and hopefully we'll get to the point where the chief data citizen titlists cleaves to you. Thanks by the way for giving us the opportunity to speak a little bit about what we're doing with our Chief Data Citizen. Um we started the community, the company about 13 years ago, uh 2008 and over those years as a founder, I've worn many different hats from product presales to partnerships and a bunch of other things. But ultimately the company reaches a certain point, a certain size where systems and processes become absolutely necessary if you want to scale further for us. This is the moment in time when we said, okay, we probably need a data office right now ourselves, something that we've seen with many of our customers. So he said, okay, let me figure out how to lead our own data office and figure out how we can get value out of data using our own software at Clear Bright Self. And that's where it achieved. That a citizen role comes in on friday evening. We like to call that, drinking our own champagne monday morning, you know, eating our own dog food. But essentially um this is what we help our customers do build out the offices. So we're doing this ourselves now when we're very hands on. So there's a lot of things we're learning again, just like our customers do. And for me at culebra, this means that I'm responsible as achieved data citizen for our overall data strategy, which talks a lot about data products as well as our data infrastructure, which is needed to power data problems now because we're doing this in the company and also doing this in a way that is helpful to our customers. Were also figuring out how do we translate the learning that we have ourselves and give them back to our customers, to our partners, to the broader ecosystem as a whole. And that's why uh if you summarize the strategy, I like the sometimes refer to it as Data office 2025, it's 2025. What is the data office looked like by then? And we recommend to our customers also have that forward looking view just as well. So if I summarize the the answer a little bit it's very similar to achieve their officer role but because it has the external evangelization component helping other data leaders we like to refer to it as the chief data scientist. >>Yeah that that kind of uh you talk about evangelizing obviously with that that you're talking about certain kinds of responsibilities and obligations and when I think of citizenship in general I think about privileges and rights and about national citizenship. You're talking about data citizenship. So I assume that with that you're talking about appropriate behaviors and the most uh well defined behaviors and kind of keep it between the lanes basically. Is that is that how you look at being a data citizen. And if not how would you describe that to a client about being a data citizen? >>It's a very good point as a citizen. You have the rights and responsibilities and the same is exactly true for a day to citizens. For us, starting with what it is right for us. The data citizen is somebody who uses data to do their job. And we've purposely made that definition very broad because today we believe that everyone in some way uses data, do their job. You know, data universal. It's critical to business processes and its importance is only increasing and we want all the data citizens to have appropriate access to data and and the ability to do stuff with data but also to do that in the right way. And if you think about it, this is not just something that applies to you and your job but also extends beyond the workplace because as a data citizen, you're also a human being. Of course. So the way you do data at home with your friends and family, all of this becomes important as well. Uh and we like to think about it as informed privacy. Us data citizens who think about trust in data all the time because ultimately everybody's talking today about data as an asset and data is the new gold and the new oil and the new soil. And there is a ton of value uh data but it's not just organizations themselves to see this. It's also the bad actors out there were reading a lot more about data breaches for example. So ultimately there is no value without rescue. Uh so as the data citizen you can achieve value but you also have to think about how do I avoid these risks? And as an organization, if you manage to combine both of those, that's when you can get the maximum value out of data in a trusted manner. >>Yeah, I think this is pretty interesting approach that you've taken here because obviously there are processes with regard to data, right? I mean you know that's that's pretty clear but there are there's a culture that you're talking about here that not only are we going to have an operational plan for how we do this certain activity and how we're going to uh analyze here, input here action uh perform action on that whatever. But we're gonna have a mindset or an approach mentally that we want our company to embrace. So if you would walk me through that process a little bit in terms of creating that kind of culture which is very different then kind of the X's and oh's and the technical side of things. >>Yeah, that's I think where organizations face the biggest challenge because you know, maybe they're hiring the best, most unique data scientists in the world, but it's not about what that individual can do, right? It's about what the combination of data citizens across the organization can do. And I think there it starts first by thinking as an individual about universal goal Golden rule, treat others as you would want to be treated yourself right the way you would ethically use data at your job. Think about that. There's other people and other companies who you would want to do the same thing. Um now from our experience and our own data office at cordoba as well as what we see with our customers, a lot of that personal responsibility, which is where culture starts, starts with data literacy and you know, we talked a little bit about Planet Rock and small statues in brussels Belgium where I'm from. But essentially um here we speak a couple of languages in Belgium and for organizations for individuals, Data literacy is very similar. You know, you're able to read and write, which are pretty essential for any job today. And so we want all data citizens to also be able to speak and read and write data fluently if I if I can express it this way. And one of the key ways of getting that done and establishing that culture around data uh is lies with the one who leads data in the organization, the Chief Petty Officer or however the roll is called. They play a very important role in this. Um, the comparison maybe that I always make there is think about other assets in your organization. You know, you're you're organized for the money asset for the talent assets with HR and a bunch of other assets. So let's talk about the money asset for a little bit, right? You have a finance department, you have a chief financial officer. And obviously their responsibility is around managing that money asset, but it's also around making others in the organization think about that money asset and they do that through established processes and responsibilities like budgeting and planning, but also ultimately to the individual where, you know, through expense sheets that we all off so much they make you think about money. So if the CFO makes everyone in the company thinks about think about money, that data officer or the data lead has to think has to make everyone think uh in the company about data as a as it just as well and and those rights those responsibilities um in that culture, they also change right today. They're set this and this way because of privacy and policy X. And Y. And Z. But tomorrow for example as with the european union's new regulation around the eye, there's a bunch of new responsibilities you have to think about. >>Mhm. You know you mentioned security and about value and risk which is certainly um they are part and parcel right? If I have something important, I gotta protect it because somebody else might want to um to create some damage, some harm uh and and steal my value basically. Well that's what's happening as you point out in the data world these days. So so what kind of work are you doing in that regard in terms of reinforcing the importance of security, culture, privacy culture, you know this kind of protective culture within an organization so that everybody fully understands the risks. But also the huge upsides if you do enforce this responsibility and these good behaviors that that obviously the company can gain from and then provide value to their client base. So how do you reinforce that within your clients to spread that culture if you will within their organizations? >>Um spreading a culture is not always an easy thing. Um especially a lot of organizations think about the value around data but to your point, not always about the risks that come associated with it sometimes just because they don't know about it yet. Right? There's new architecture is that come into play like the clouds and that comes with a whole bunch of new risk. That's why one of the things that we recommend always to our uh customers and to data officers and our customers organizations is that next to establishing that that data literacy, for example, and working on data products is that they also partners strongly with other leaders in their organization. On the one hand, for example, the legal uh folks, where typically you find the aspects around privacy and on the other hand, um the information security folks, because if you're building up a sort of map of your data, look at it like a castle, right that you're trying to protect. Uh if you don't have a map of your castle with the strong points and weak points and you know, where people can build, dig a hole under your wall or what have you, then it's very hard to defend. So you have to be able to get a map of your data. A data map if you will know what data is out there with being used by and and why and how and then you want to prioritize that data which is the most important, what are the most important uses and put the appropriate protections and controls in place. Um and it's fundamental that you do that together with your legal and information security partners because you may have as a data leader you may have the data module data expertise, but there's a bunch of other things that come into play when you're trying to protect, not just the data but really your company on its data as a whole. >>You know you were talking about 2025 a little bit ago and I think good for you. That's quite a crystal ball that you have you know looking uh with the headlights that far down the road. But I know you have to be you know that kind of progressive thinking is very important. What do you see in the long term for number one? You're you're kind of position as a chief data citizen if you will. And then the role of the chief data officer which you think is kind of migrating toward that citizenship if you will. So maybe put on those long term vision uh goggles of yours again and and tell me what do you see as far as these evolving roles and and these new responsibilities for people who are ceos these days? >>Um well 2025 is closer than we think right? And obviously uh my crystal ball is as Fuzzy as everyone else's but there's a few things that trends that you can easily identify and that we've seen by doing this for so long at culebra. Um and one is the push around data I think last year. Um the years 2020, 2020 words uh sort of Covid became the executive director of digitalization forced everyone to think more about digital. And I expect that to continue. Right. So that's an important aspect. The second important aspect that I expect to continue for the next couple of years, easily. 2025 is the whole movement to the cloud. So those cloud native architecture to become important as well as the, you know, preparing your data around and preparing your false, he's around it, et cetera. I also expect that privacy regulations will continue to increase as well as the need to protect your data assets. Um And I expect that a lot of achieved that officers will also be very busy building out those data products. So if you if you think that that trend then okay, data products are getting more important for t data officers, then um data quality is something that's increasingly important today to get right otherwise becomes a garbage in garbage out kind of situation where your data products are being fed bad food and ultimately their their outcomes are very tricky. So for us, for the chief data officers, Um I think there was about one of them in 2002. Um and then in 2019 ISH, let's say there were around 10,000. So there's there's plenty of upside to go for the chief data officers, there's plenty of roles like that needed across the world. Um and they've also evolved in in responsibility and I expect that their position, you know, it it is really a sea level position today in most organizations expect that that trend will also to continue to grow. But ultimately, those achieved that officers have to think about the business, right? Not just the defensive and offensive positions around data like policies and regulations, but also the support for businesses who are today shifting very fast and we'll continue to uh to digital. So those Tv officers will be seen as heroes, especially when they can build out a factory of data products that really supports the business. Um, but at the same time, they have to figure out how to um reach and always branch to their technical counterparts because you cannot build that factory of data products in my mind, at least without the proper infrastructure. And that's where your technical teams come in. And then obviously the partnerships with your video and information security folks, of course. >>Well heroes. Everybody wants to be the hero. And I know that uh you painted a pretty clear path right now as far as the Chief data officer is concerned and their importance and the value to companies down the road stan. We thank you very much for the time today and for the insight and wish you continued success at the conference. Thank you very much. >>Thank you very much. Have a nice day healthy. >>Thank you very much Dan Christians joining us talking about chief data citizenship if you will as part of data citizens 21. The conference being put on by caliber. I'm John Wall's thanks for joining us here on the Cube. >>Mhm.

>> - From around the globe, it's the cube covering data citizens, 21 brought to you by Collibra. >> Hello, everyone, John Walls here, As we continue our cube conversations here as part of data citizens, 21, the conference ongoing. Collibra at the heart of that, really at the heart of data these days and helping companies and corporations make sense. Although this data chaos that they're dealing with, trying to provide new insights, new analysis being a lot more efficient and effective with your data. That's what Collibra is all about. And their founder and their chief data citizen, if you will, Stan Christiaens joins us today. And Stan, I love that title, chief data citizen. What does that all about? What does that mean? >> Hey John, thanks for having me over. And hopefully we'll get to a point where the chief data citizen Titelist cleaves to you. Thanks by the way, for giving us the opportunity to speak a little bit about what we're doing with our chief data citizen. We started the company about 13 years ago, 2008. And over those years, as a founder I've worn many different hats from product to pre-sales to partnerships and a bunch of obvious things. But ultimately the company reaches a certain point a certain size where systems and processes become absolutely necessary if you want to scale further. And for us, this is the moment in time where we said, okay we probably need a data office right now ourselves, something that we've seen with many of our customers. So we said, okay, let me figure out how to lead our own data office and figured out how we can get value out of data using our own software at Collibra itself. And that's where the chief data citizen role comes in. On Friday evening, we like to call that drinking our own champagne moment morning, either eating our own dog food but, essentially this is what we help our customers do, build out the data offices. So we're doing this ourselves now, when we're very hands-on. So there's a lot of things that we're learning, again just like our customers do. And for me, at Collibra, this means that I'm responsible as a chief data citizen for our overall data strategy, which talks a lot about data products, as well as our data infrastructure, which is needed to power data products. Now, because we're doing this in the company and also doing this in a way that is helpful to our customers. We're also figuring out how do we translate the learnings that we have ourselves and give them back to our customers, to our partners, to the broader ecosystem as a whole. And that's why if you summarize the strategy, I like to sometimes refer to it as data office 2025, it's 2025. What is the data office look like by then? And we recommend to our customers to also have that forward looking view just as well. So if I summarize the, the answer a little bit and it's fairly similar to achieve that officer role but, because it has the external evangelization component, helping other data leaders, we like to refer to it as the chief data citizens. >> Yeah, and that, that kind of, you talked about evangelizing, obviously with that, that you're talking about certain kinds of responsibilities and obligations. And I, when I think of citizenship in general I think about privileges and rights and you know, about national citizenship. You're talking about data citizenship, So I assume that with that you're talking about appropriate behaviors and the most well-defined behaviors, and kind of keeping it between the lanes basically. Is that, is that how you look at being a data citizen or, and if not, how would you describe that to a client about being a data citizen? >> It's a very good point, as a citizen you have rights and responsibilities, and the same is exactly true for a data citizen. For us, starting with what it is, right for us, A data citizen is somebody who uses data to do their job. And we've purposely made that definition very broad because today we believe that everyone in some way uses data to do their job. You know, data is universal. It's critical to business processes and it's importance is only increasing. And we want all the data citizens to have appropriate access to data and the ability to do stuff with data but, also to do that in the right way. And if you think about it this is not just something that applies to you in your job but, also extends beyond the workplace because as a data citizen, you're also a human being, of course. So, the way you do data at home with your friends and family, all of this becomes important as well. And we like to think about it as informed privacy aware, data citizens should think about trust in data all the time, because ultimately everybody's talking today about data as an asset, and data is the new gold, and the new oil, and the new soil, and there is a ton of value in data but, as much as organizations themselves to see this, it's also the bad actors out there. We're reading a lot more about data breaches, for example. So, ultimately there's no value without risk. So, as a data citizen, you can achieve a value but, you also have to think about, how do I avoid these risks, and as an organization, if you manage to combine both of those, that's when you can get the maximum value out of data in a trusted manner. >> Yeah, I think this is pretty, an interesting approach that you've taken here because obviously there there are processes with regard to data, right? I mean, the, you know, that that's pretty clear but, there are also, there's a culture that you're talking about here that, that not only are we going to have an operational plan for how we do this certain activity and how we're going to analyze here, input here, action, or perform action on that, whatever but we're going to have a mindset or an approach mentally that we want our company to embrace. So, if you would walk me through that process a little bit in terms of creating that kind of culture, which is very different than kind of the X's and O's and the technical side of things. >> Yeah. That's I think when organizations face the biggest challenge, because, you know maybe they're hiding the best most unique data scientists in the world but, it's not about what that individual can do, right? It's about what the combination of data citizens across the organization can do. And I think it starts first by thinking as an individual about universal goal, golden rule, treat others as you would want to be treated yourself, right? The way you would ethically use data at your job. Think about that, There's other people at other companies, who you would want to do the same thing. Now, from our experience, in our own data office at Collibra, as well as what we see with our customers. A lot of that personal responsibility which is where culture starts, starts with data literacy. And, you know, we talked a little bit about Plymouth rock and the small statues in Brussels Belgium, where I'm from but, essentially here we speak a couple of languages in Belgium. And for organizations, for individuals data literacy is very similar. You know, you're able to read and write which are pretty essential for any job today. And so we want all data citizens to also be able to speak and read and write data fluently. If I, if I can express it this way. And one of the key ways of getting that done and establishing that culture around data, lies with the one who leads data in the organization, the chief data officer, or however the role is called. They play a very important role in this. In comparison, maybe that I always make there is think about other assets in your organization. You know, you're organized for the money assets, for the talent assets, with HR and a bunch of other assets. So let's talk about the, the money assets for a little bit, right? You have a finance department, you have a chief financial officer, and obviously their responsibility is around managing that money asset. But it's also around making others in the organization think about that money. And they do that through established processes and responsibilities like budgeting and planning but, also ultimately to the individual where, you know, through expense sheets that we all love so much, they make you think about money. So, if the CFO makes everyone in the company thinks about think about money, that data officer, or the data lead, has to think, has to make everyone think in the company about data assets, asset, just as well. And those rights, those responsibilities in that culture, they also change, right? Today, they're set this and this way because of privacy and policy X and Y and Z. But tomorrow, for example, as, as with the European union's new regulation around BI, there's a bunch of new responsibilities you'll have to think about. >> You mentioned security and about value and risk, which is certainly, they are part and parcel, right? If I have something important I've got to protect it because somebody else might want to, to create some damage, some harm and and steal my value, basically when that's, what's happening as you point out in the data world these days. So, so what kind of work are you doing in that regard in terms of reinforcing the importance of security culture, privacy culture, you know, this kind of protective culture within an organization so that everybody fully understands, you know, the risks but, also the huge upsides. If you do enforce this responsibility and these good behaviors that that obviously the company can gain from, and then provide value to their client base. So how do you reinforce that within your clients to spread that culture, if you will, within their organizations? >> Spreading a culture is not always an easy thing, And especially a lot of organizations think about the value around data, but to your point, not always about the risks that come associated with it. Sometimes just because they don't know about it yet, right, there's new architectures that come into play, like the clouds and that comes with a whole bunch of new risks. That, that's why one of the things that we recommend always to our customers and to data officers in our customer's organizations, is that next to establishing that, that data literacy, for example, and working on data products is that they also partner strongly with other leaders in their organization. On the one hand, for example, the legal folks, where typically you find the the aspects around privacy and on the other hand, the information security folks, because if you're building up sort of map of your data, look at it like a castle, right, that you're trying to protect. If you don't have a map of your castle, with the strong points and the weak points, and you know where people can build, dig a hole under your wall or what have you, then it's very hard to defend. So, you have to be able to get a map of your data, a data map if you will, know what data is out there. Who its being used by, and why and how, and then you want to prioritize that data, which is the most important what are the most important uses and put the appropriate protections and controls in place. And it's fundamental that you do that together with your legal and information security partners because you may have as a data lead that you may have the data knowledge, the data expertise but, there's a bunch of other things that come into play when you're trying to protect, not just the data but, really your company on its data as a whole. >> No, you Were talking about 2025 a little bit ago, and I thought good for you, that's quite a crystal ball that you have it, you know looking to, you know, with the headlights that far down the road, but I know you have to be, you know that kind of progressive thinking is very important. What do you see in, in the long-term for number one, your kind of position as a chief data citizen, if you will, and then the role of the chief data officer, which you think is kind of migrating toward that citizenship, if you will. So, maybe put on those long-term vision goggles of yours again, and tell me, what do you see as far as these evolving roles and, and these new responsibilities for people who are CEOs these days? >> Well, 2025 is closer than we think right? Then obviously, my crystal ball is as fuzzy as everyone else's but, there's a few things, that trends that you can easily identify and that we've seen by doing this for so long at Collibra. And one is the, the push around data. I think last year, the years, 2020,` where sort of COVID became the executive director of digitalization. Forced everyone to think more about digital, and I expect that to continue. So, that's an important aspect. The second important aspect that I expect to continue for the next couple of years, easily in 2025 is the whole movement to the cloud. So these cloud native architectures become important, as well as the, you know, preparing your data around it, preparing your policies around it, etc.. I also expect that privacy regulations will continue to increase as well as the needs to protect your data assets. And I expected a lot of key data officers will also be very busy building out those data products. So if you, if you take that that trend then, okay data products are getting more important for key data officer's, then data quality is something that's increasingly important today to get right, otherwise, becomes a garbage in garbage out kind of situation, where your data products are being fed bad foods and ultimately their outcomes aren't very clear. So for us, for the chief data officers, I think it was about one of them in 2002, and then 2019 ish, let's say there were 10,000. So there's plenty of upsides for the chief data officer there's plenty of roles like that needed across the world. And they've also evolved in, in responsibility. And I expect that their position, you know, as it it is really a C-level position today in most organizations. Expect that, that trend will also continue to grow. But ultimately those chief data officers have to think about the business, right? Not just the defensive and offensive positions around data, like almost policies and regulations but, also the support for businesses who are today, shifting very fast and will continue to, to digital. So, those key data officers will be seen as key notes. Especially when they can build out the factory of data products that really supports the business. But at the same time, they have to figure out how to reaching all of the branch to their technical counterparts, because you cannot build a factory of data products in my mind at least, without the proper infrastructure. And that's where your technical teams come in. And then obviously the partnerships with your video and information security folks, of course. >> Well heroes, everybody wants to be the hero. And I know that's a, you painted a pretty clear path right now, as far as the chief data officer's concerned and their importance and the value to companies down the road. Stan, we thank you very much for the time today and for the insight, and wish you continued success at the conference. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. Have a nice day. Stay healthy. >> Thank you very much Stan Christiaen's joining us, talking about chief data citizenship, if you will, as part of data citizens, 21 the conference being put on by Collibra. I'm John Walls. Thanks for joining us here on the cube. (upbeat music)