(Inspiring rock music) >> Hey everyone, I'm Lisa Martin covering Data Citizens 22 brought to you by Collibra. This next conversation is going to focus on the importance of data culture. One of our Cube alumni is back; Stan Christians is Collibra's co-founder and it's Chief Data citizen. Stan, it's great to have you back on theCUBE. >> Hey Lisa, nice to be here. >> So we're going to be talking about the importance of data culture, data intelligence, maturity all those great things. When we think about the data revolution that every business is going through, you know, it's so much more than technology innovation; it also really requires cultural transformation, community transformation. Those are challenging for customers to undertake. Talk to us about what you mean by data citizenship and the role that creating a data culture plays in that journey. >> Right. So as you know, our event is called Data Citizens because we believe that, in the end, a data citizen is anyone who uses data to do their job. And we believe that today's organizations you have a lot of people, most of the employees in an organization, are somehow going to be a data citizen, right? So you need to make sure that these people are aware of it, you need to make sure that these people have the skills and competencies to do with data what is necessary, and that's on all levels, right? So what does it mean to have a good data culture? It means that if you're building a beautiful dashboard to try and convince your boss we need to make this decision, that your boss is also open to and able to interpret, you know, the data presented in the dashboard to actually make that decision and take that action. Right? And once you have that "Why" to the organization that's when you have a good data culture. That's a continuous effort for most organizations because they're always moving somehow, they're hiring new people. And it has to be a continuous effort because we've seen that, on the one hand, organizations continue to be challenged with controlling their data sources and where all the data is flowing right? Which in itself creates lot of risk, but also on the other hand of the equation, you have the benefits, you know, you might look at regulatory drivers like we have to do this, right? But it's, it's much better right now to consider the competitive drivers for example. And we did an IDC study earlier this year, quite interesting, I can recommend anyone to read it, and one of the conclusions they found as they surveyed over a thousand people across organizations worldwide, is that the ones who are higher in maturity, so the organizations that really look at data as an asset, look at data as a product and actively try to be better at it don't have three times as good a business outcome as the ones who are lower on the maturity scale, right? So you can say, okay, I'm doing this, you know, data culture for everyone, awakening them up as data citizens. I'm doing this for competitive reasons. I'm doing this for regulatory reasons. You're trying to bring both of those together. And the ones that get data intelligence, right, are just going to be more successful and more competitive. That's our view and that's what we're seeing out there in the market. >> Absolutely. We know that just generally, Stan, right, The organizations that are really creating a a data culture and enabling everybody within the organization to become data citizens are, we know that, in theory, they're more competitive, they're more successful, But the IDC study that you just mentioned demonstrates they're three times more successful and competitive than their peers. Talk about how Collibra advises customers to create that community, that culture of data when it might be challenging for an organization to adapt culturally. >> Of course, of course it's difficult for an organization to adapt, but it's also necessary as you just said, imagine that, you know, you're a modern day organization, phones, laptops, what have you. You're not using those IT assets, right? Or you know, you're delivering them throughout the organization, but not enabling your colleagues to actually do something with that asset. Same thing is true with data today, right, if you're not properly using the data asset, and your competitors are, they're going to get more advantage. So as to how you get this done or how you establish this culture there's a few angles to look at, I would say. So one angle is obviously the leadership angle whereby whoever is the boss of data in the organization you typically have multiple bosses there, like a chief Data Officer, sometimes there's multiple, but they may have a different title, right? So I'm just going to summarize it as a data leader for a second. So whoever that is, they need to make sure that there's a clear vision, a clear strategy for data. And that strategy needs to include the monetization aspect. How are you going to get value from data? >> Lisa: Yes. >> Now, that's one part because then you can clearly see the example of your leadership in the organization, and also the business value, and that's important because those people, their job, in essence, really is to make everyone in the organization think about data as an asset. And I think that's the second part of the equation of getting that go to right is it's not enough to just have that leadership out there but you also have to get the hearts and minds of the data champions across the organization. You really have to win them over. And if you have those two combined, and obviously good technology to, you know, connect those people and have them execute on their responsibilities such as a data intelligence platform like ePlus, then you have the pieces in place to really start upgrading that culture inch by inch, if you will. >> Yes, I like that. The recipe for success. So you are the co-founder of Collibra. You've worn many different hats along this journey. Now you're building Collibra's own data office. I like how, before we went live, we were talking about Collibra is drinking its own champagne. I always loved to hear stories about that. You're speaking at Data Citizens 2022. Talk to us about how you are building a data culture within Collibra and what, maybe some of the specific projects are that Collibra's data office is working on. >> Yes. And it is indeed data citizens. There are a ton of speakers here, very excited. You know, we have Barb from MIT speaking about data monetization. We have DJ Patil at the last minute on the agenda so really exciting agenda, can't wait to get back out there. But essentially you're right. So over the years at Collibra, we've been doing this now since 2008, so a good 15 years, and I think we have another decade of work ahead in the market, just to be very clear. Data is here to stick around, as are we, and myself, you know, when you start a company we were four people in a garage, if you will, so everybody's wearing all sorts of hat at that time. But over the years I've run pre-sales at Collibra, I've run post sales, partnerships, product, et cetera, and as our company got a little bit biggish, we're now 1,200 something like that, people in the company I believe, systems and processes become a lot more important, right? So we said, you know, Collibra isn't the size of our customers yet, but we're getting there in terms of organization, structure, process systems et cetera. So we said it's really time for us to put our money where our mouth is, and to set up our own data office, which is what we were seeing that all of our customers are doing, and which is what we're seeing that organizations worldwide are doing and Gartner was predicting as well. They said, okay, organizations have an HR unit, they have a finance unit, and over time they'll all have a department, if you will, that is responsible somehow for the data. >> Lisa: Hm. >> So we said, okay, let's try to set an example with Collibra. Let's set up our own data office in such a way that other people can take away with it, right? Can take away from it? So we set up a data strategy, we started building data products, took care of the data infrastructure, that sort of good stuff, And in doing all of that, Lisa, exactly as you said, we said, okay, we need to also use our own products and our own practices, right? And from that use, learn how we can make the product better, learn how we can make the practice better and share that learning with all of the markets, of course. And on Monday mornings, we sometimes refer to that as eating our own dog foods, Friday evenings, we refer to that as drinking our own champagne. >> Lisa: I like it. >> So we, we had a (both chuckle) We had the drive do this, you know, there's a clear business reason, so we involved, we included that in the data strategy and that's a little bit of our origin. Now how, how do we organize this? We have three pillars, and by no means is this a template that everyone should follow. This is just the organization that works at our company, but it can serve as an inspiration. So we have pillars, which is data science, The data product builders, if you will or the people who help the business build data products, we have the data engineers who help keep the lights on for that data platform to make sure that the products, the data products, can run, the data can flow and, you know, the quality can be checked. And then we have a data intelligence or data governance pillar where we have those data governance data intelligence stakeholders who help the business as a sort of data partners to the business stakeholders. So that's how we've organized it. And then we started following the Collibra approach, which is, well, what are the challenges that our business stakeholders have in HR, finance, sales, marketing all over? And how can data help overcome those challenges? And from those use cases, we then just started to build a roadmap, and started execution on use case after use case. And a few important ones there are very simple, we see them with all our customers as well, people love talking about the catalog, right? The catalog for the data scientists to know what's in their data lake, for example, and for the people in Deagle and privacy, So they have their process registry, and they can see how the data flows. So that's a popular starting place and that turns into a marketplace so that if new analysts and data citizens join Collibra, they immediately have a place to go to to look at what data is out there for me as an analyst or data scientist or whatever, to do my job, right? So they can immediately get access to the data. And another one that we did is around trusted business reporting. We're seeing that, since 2008, you know, self-service BI allowed everyone to make beautiful dashboards, you know, by pie charts. I always, my pet peeve is the pie charts because I love pie, and you shouldn't always be using pie charts, but essentially there's become proliferation of those reports. And now executives don't really know, okay, should I trust this report or that report? They're reporting on the same thing but the numbers seem different, right? So that's why we have trusted business reporting. So we know if the reports, the dashboard, a data product essentially, is built, we know that all the right steps are being followed, and that whoever is consuming that can be quite confident in the result. >> Lisa: Right, and that confidence is absolutely key. >> Exactly. Yes. >> Absolutely. Talk a little bit about some of the the key performance indicators that you're using to measure the success of the data office. What are some of those KPIs? >> KPIs and measuring is a big topic in the chief data officer profession I would say, and again, it always varies, with respect to your organization, but there's a few that we use that might be of interest to you. So remember you have those three pillars, right? And we have metrics across those pillars. So, for example, a pillar on the data engineering side is going to be more related to that uptime, right? Is the data platform up and running? Are the data products up and running? Is the quality in them good enough? Is it going up? Is it going down? What's the usage? But also, and especially if you're in the cloud and if consumption's a big thing, you have metrics around cost, for example, right? So that's one set of examples. Another one is around the data signs and the products. Are people using them? Are they getting value from it? Can we calculate that value in a monetary perspective, right? >> Lisa: Yes. >> So that we can, to the rest of the business, continue to say, "We're tracking all those numbers and those numbers indicate that value is generated" and how much value estimated in that region. And then you have some data intelligence, data governance metrics, which is, for example you have a number of domains in a data mesh [Indistinct] People talk about being the owner a data domain for example, like product or customer. So how many of those domains do you have covered? How many of them are already part of the program? How many of them have owners assigned? How well are these owners organized, executing on their responsibilities? How many tickets are open? Closed? How many data products are built according to process? And so on and so forth, so these are a set of examples of KPI's. There's a lot more but hopefully those can already inspire the audience. >> Absolutely. So we've, we've talked about the rise of cheap data offices, it's only accelerating. You mentioned this is like a 10-year journey. So if you were to look into a crystal ball, what do you see, in terms of the maturation of data offices over the next decade? >> So we, we've seen, indeed, the role sort of grow up. I think in 2010 there may have been like, 10 chief data officers or something, Gartner has exact numbers on them. But then they grew, you know, 400's they were like mostly in financial services, but they expanded them to all industries and the number is estimated to be about 20,000 right now. >> Wow. >> And they evolved in a sort of stack of competencies, defensive data strategy, because the first chief data officers were more regulatory driven, offensive data strategy, support for the digital program and now all about data products, right? So as a data leader, you now need all those competences and need to include them in your strategy. How is that going to evolve for the next couple of years? I wish I had one of those crystal balls, right? But essentially, I think for the next couple of years there's going to be a lot of people, you know, still moving along with those four levels of the stack. A lot of people I see are still in version one and version two of the chief data officers. So you'll see, over the years that's going to evolve more digital and more data products. So for the next three, five years, my prediction is it's all going to be about data products because it's an immediate link between the data and the dollar essentially. >> Right. >> So that's going to be important and quite likely a new, some new things will be added on, which nobody can predict yet. But we'll see those pop up a few years. I think there's going to be a continued challenge for the chief data officer role to become a real executive role as opposed to, you know, somebody who claims that they're executive, but then they're not, right? So the real reporting level into the board, into the CEO for example, will continue to be a challenging point. But the ones who do get that done, will be the ones that are successful, and the ones who get that done will be the ones that do it on the basis of data monetization, right? Connecting value to the data and making that very clear to all the data citizens in the organization, right? >> Right, really creating that value chain. >> In that sense they'll need to have both, you know, technical audiences and non-technical audiences aligned of course, and they'll need to focus on adoption. Again, it's not enough to just have your data office be involved in this. It's really important that you are waking up data citizens across the organization and you make everyone in the organization think about data as an essence. >> Absolutely, because there's so much value that can be extracted if organizations really strategically build that data office and democratize access across all those data citizens. Stan, this is an exciting arena. We're definitely going to keep our eyes on this. Sounds like a lot of evolution and maturation coming from the data office perspective. From the data citizen perspective. And as the data show, that you mentioned in that IDC study you mentioned Gartner as well. Organizations have so much more likelihood of being successful and being competitive. So we're going to watch this space. Stan, thank you so much for joining me on theCUBE at Data Citizens 22. We appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me over. >> From Data Citizens 22, I'm Lisa Martin you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. (inspiring rock music) >> Okay, this concludes our coverage of Data Citizens 2022 brought to you by Collibra. Remember, all these videos are available on demand at theCUBE.net. And don't forget to check out siliconangle.com for all the news and wikibon.com for our weekly breaking analysis series where we cover many data topics and share survey research from our partner ETR, Enterprise Technology Research. If you want more information on the products announced at Data Citizens, go to Collibra.com. There are tons of resources there. You'll find analyst reports, product demos. It's really worthwhile to check those out. Thanks for watching our program and digging into Data Citizens 2022 on theCUBE Your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We'll see you soon. (inspiring rock music continues)

live from Las Vegas Nevada it's the cute covering knowledge 15 brought to you by service now hey welcome back everyone we are here live for day two of wall-to-wall coverage getting down to the end of the day here live for the cube at servicenow knowledge 15 hashtag no 15 join the conversation on crowd chat / no 15 this is the cube our flagship program out to the events and I strike a super low noise I'm John furrier mykos Dave vellante arnessk as a steve bates principle cio advisory at kpmg he runs the global technology business management practice welcome to the cube thanks for having me good to be here we could probably talk for a now or on just a couple different awesome use cases but the digital transformation is a buzzword being promoted by all the top analysts it certainly chums the water and in the mind of sea level suites are we you know Apple we Apple I want to be like Facebook like Google I want to be like that i want to be i got to be digital everywhere all formats all channels get some all hot and bothered end of the day rubber hits the road you guys are in this business with technology business management tvm yep what is that what is this going on here help explain the dynamic teen those two well one's a buzzword one's kind of a practice what's going on with this trend so let's take a step back and look at the method of how we run IT right the paradigm of traditionally running IT as a utility that quiet silent automated environment where you're trying to push down costs to the lowest possible level right digital transformation is going to blows that out of the water right it's no longer about an access to you know a single set of services that you know you have to go through a function to get right technology has been largely democratized and is accessible to everyone so how do you allow that to be how do you get transparency into what's important right how do I invest in the right things if I can just go by services with my credit card how does the CIO get their hands around with the right things are digital accelerates that so much more right no longer we bound to a data center no longer we bound to just a set of applications you need a way to manage your business of IT that's what tbm is trying to do establishing the tools and processes and credibility to allow you to do that so for all its cloud buffs out there we we've been calling that shadow IT that's the term being kicked around playing in the shadows going behind boss's back putting some stuff up on Amazon getting your hands slap then say wait we should do that across the whole company yeah that's kind of what's happening yeah and it's been a shadow IT isn't necessarily a bad thing right sorry exactly didn't a penalty buckle get back out here and implement this was a company-wide right so it's when you use tv-am as the method to manage your business it's to be able to say I want transparency into what we're using regardless of harden it put some practice and play so take us through some examples of top of your head where you've seen this in action what's the platform architectures look like what are the use cases I mean it's hard to rip and replace oh for sure we're so how do you how do you guys look at that and what is an example yeah so if you could start with the fundamentals which is removing the black box around IT right this is about getting transparency into who's using what in the estate all right so an example of the most of our clients start with is the use case of I have no idea how much we spend on i.t it's shocking i know we all we all are surprised about that even seventy percent is for operations what's the number exactly so that that beginning use case usually doesn't come from just the cio that really is typically coming the CFO and so our engagement as often with a CFO or someone in the finance organization saying i need transparency to understanding what we're consuming who's using it and are we actually spending money on the right thing so they know there's you know what they're spending at the top line or not necessarily because of shadow IT correct okay federer so TC oh there's the entire concept of total cost of ownership no I oh forget it but the Bennett but they know what the IT department is spending they know what's budgeted okay that's a capital budget and then there's this other stuff that goes on the career I don't have a handle on and so when you see that that always increasing cost of IT year over year and over year you can tie that to all wise why is it going up you know no one wants to but that's the old paradigm right what you want to say when you're do something with digital disruption is we want more technology alright we want them we want to actually turn that into our differentiator so how do we use more technology while driving down the cost on things we don't care about how do we how do we do it so that's the use of the original use case is always around transparency what you do with that transparency the actions you take that's interesting that's what's next and that's where you're talking around so if I want to reintroduce an entire way of doing our virtualization structure well I know now how much we spend on it I know who's using it I know what applications and services its links to and I now can make a decision a smart decision prior to investing in this what the value is yeah well it's the second third fourth and fifth thing that you just said yes those are the really hard things I mean relatively easy to find out at least what's being spent and that's hard but what applications are supported what's business processes is recorded what value yes is it bringing to my organization well that's where you guys come in that's the whole point it's this is about a value play and making decisions and on what you're going to invest and linking it to value as opposed to cost cost is a component of value but it's not the interesting part right you're only as good as the day you can get so how about the data impact cuz you know running IT as a business you need the data so that's where you guys can explain that get the data right how does the data get into the system that's something that I'm a little fuzzy on let's let's start with the premise that this entire thing or any ideas a business is built on credibility right and IT typically has very little credibility because they don't have good data or the data that they do have they can't defend right so how we start with it is with a fact-based conversation rings we do a bottoms-up model that will typically pull from in the ServiceNow case we're pulling from a CMD be a hardware asset management software asset management will pull in contracts will pull in to help desk tickets any information that helps inform us on what the IT estate really looks like and who's using those resources the the data is in service now the data is resident so it's a trusted source right for organizations who do not have a trusted source like for those who don't have a configuration management those that aren't using a service now it's incredibly difficult this disparate universe of data that's all garbage and enriched and manual what we do is we come in and we standardize that and we create trusted sources that can be certified and dependable and that's where you start yeah because I I see why you guys are needed because even if you have a cmdb even if you have service now you might know what all your hardware is but you don't know what apps are necessarily running on that hard way you don't know what business processes they support you don't know what your dependencies are you don't know what the users are you don't know the value of those users I mean that's a complicated situation and so how do you resolve that we enter with what we have in our service hierarchy right so you typically find an IT hierarchy that rolls up infrastructure to some level of IT towers that allow us to see well here's kind of what the operating the OS layer is there's maybe some middleware but organizations usually stop at that layer our model comes in and we built a whole stack we start with for the bottom up and the top down at the same time yeah there we go for business capabilities down to business services from business services to IT services and IT services into capabilities all the way down the stack that for us is an architectural blueprint that then you start running your organization off of its service oriented and then you can look at what Apple you look at the application portfolio and sort of chunks or sweets and then you've got granular yeah there's there's so many different slices you can take so let's just say you're at a application portfolio manager their common pretty common role but you want to know let's say one of your use cases and allow no rationalize my application is very common all right so how do i do that i can look at if I find one lens if I wants to look at licensing okay that's fine I can look at duplicate licenses out there but what do I want to see if I what's the ideal infrastructure to ride this upon able to get the whole stack from standardized my platform on the infrastructure to the application application portfolio managers should know that they shouldn't just be the apps layer it should manage the whole stack what if i want to know though the applications that are tied to a service a business service I can't get transparency of that there's no certain there's no technology today that just simply roles that off the show you can't just do an automated audit right exactly that's what that's what we're doing right is we're building that layer that intelligence layer on platforms like service now that allows you to get transparency from a business service which is a language you and I would use as consumers down to a technology service which IT and infrastructure and applications people okay so now everything we talked about is is challenging especially in organizations that don't have a clue which is the vast majority of organization don't have this data you know built and mapped out yep the hardest part still yet is to me if I'm going to make a decision to sunset applications and retire applications and rationalize my portfolio I want to make it on a value-based you know decision so how do you deal with that is you have a scoring methodology or some kind of balanced scorecard or other KPMG secret sauce or tons of KPMG hey no i would say that there's it's built on three things we tried always tie back to existing business metrics so you know don't create new IT metrics to prove value values already been declared by the business by the metrics they run the business by right so never simple stuff revenue exactly profit customer experience wouldn't you know however want to try that we look at time when we're building a portfolio services we're looking to tie those investments those technology investments directly to those metrics all right so you understand that if this portfolio of applications critical fits your CRM system if it is critical to delivering this revenue we are going to prioritize that is business credit and your codifying that as that tribal knowledge are codifying it based upon the people who know the business and then you're you've got a process to say okay now let's put that into the system correct we come in with a framework that we thinks eighty percent correct and that that twenty percent of enrichment that the business done we think that accelerates the process of getting to the value statement as opposed to what is all the linkages between my applications and this is a great business because that's our that's an organic thing it's always change it always in there so you gotta pee well okay so what happens when it changes how do I manage that so you're talking full lifecycle processes that's why this is a de tbm is a framework under which you manage your business so it's less about a service and it's more about almost an operator you gotta cook even you got a partner you're in the books your full forensic it's a full position but if i'ma see I don't say okay Steve I want you to teach me how to fish yep I don't want you to fish for me you're not gonna say no that's exactly so transfer n decision transfer knowledge transfer so there's there's extremely low value for us to continue to come back and do this as a project this isn't a project to not an outsourcing project correct you guys just say here's you been transformed you open your way and have a good business so good time to go grass all I got it I got and so when do you get the call you know man I my rooms around fire finally the second rooms burn like oh heck yeah I mean I'm gonna be proactive works really good right now I want you to come in and do an audit I mean is there a catalyst give me an example oh so pattern you got the name names or just give us a the consistent theme you're seeing well we often house is on fire breach something's going on shadow ID what are the new use cases well we often get called when there's someone standing outside a pile of rubble that used to be their home that is smoldering fortunately it's already dead we'd like okay we'd like to get past that listen I just started a new job my old places burn to the ground no I honestly I think that it comes back to the drivers are an organization is either getting challenged on the value of that of the IT dollar and it's and it is a reactive stance it's CIO is being beat up repeatedly and their credibility is gone see if typically the CFO or the actual consumers so you'll find that you know an enterprise CIO is getting hammered by the business unit CIO soon to which he is selling common backbone services as an example when when the equation comes down to cost that is always the first point the best organizations got past cost a while ago right that's the kind of drain that swamp and there's not a lot you can do there's not a lot of levers so you start talking about value and that's where organisms like it's like corporate kangaroo court yes get warring factions CIO saying no no we're doing our best for peddling as we can is their fault they didn't give us the requirements the CFO's in the middle trying to blow whistles you guys get called in everyone kind of goes to their corner yeah and you figure it out and let's have a fact-based conversation on an emotional conversation but this facts are there but get it set sorted out get the data yeah i hit the facts that that's the hard part is getting actually coming in with a method that de stablished is a fact pattern a base that a model that we can agree on and use a common language you'd be shocked how hard that is for so many organizations because their data is so this pressure point really is market I mean revenues dropping wine or they're not modernize this is now the payback for bad investment decisions yeah you know hey we should have done that or medicine stead of Khalid Saleh dating servers we should have done that and done this you have a client really you know just we discussing us today at one of our breakout sessions of a client who under invested for about ten years in their infrastructure they're paying for those sins now and they but the problem is they don't know how to take the two to three hundred million dollars and refresh money they don't even know where to apply it and and they don't know that they don't it just rip and replace and want to do like for like right they want to take digital disruption as an example I want to say this this is an opportunity for us yeah to remake our land great examples with a guest on open from the beer company on here is fantastic example where 19 years in the business craft beers growing and the winds were perfect they pivoted up a service now and what happened was they got the retail operation odd bistros they have distribution manufacturing so they have now just not just one business in three so they've now grown significantly stone stone brewery so let's use that as an example of the new I TFM application and service now let's say then we're super excited about that about service now entering into the TBM supplier ecosystem in this space that's a big move because service nails that really the only platform that has all of the data that you want resident to it right as a platform you can just feed it and and by putting this analytics layer around this IT financial management portion of it it accelerates you very quickly past transparency and gets you into the interesting conversations or well what would happen if I got into a new line of business let me model back what would happen if I you know shut down this move to this it gives you I chief it puts IT from a basement organization to full-on in control the master the universe because you had Internet of Things there and mobile right you cut every connected device AKA person yep and system so now you can they can do a lot with that I mean really great position yes hold position in the market absolu stevis it's the cio tag cloud of the stuff he or she has to worry about mobile cloud social security service management etc is pretty complicated matter so why should they be focused on technology business management and are they focused enough on T technology business management is it part of their priority list so I think it has to be most of the organizations that are mid size to large scale enterprises this is simply that though the way to have to shift to be able to meet this they don't think of it think of it this way that there's for every other function in an organization there's a management system all right for the finance group there's an ERP systems the marketing and group there's a sale system right there's there's no such system for IT there's no management framework for IT we have lots of principles we have frameworks like I till & Co so and cobit and on and on and on but there's really no management principles there tbm is kind of an international standard that thousands of companies are adopting that allow especially large-scale complex enterprises to make smart actionable decisions by running IT transparently why big organizations versus small organizations adopt this is exactly what the point you made is we have all of these competing priorities GRC and compliance and I mean you go on and on and on what are you going to spend your time on how do you prioritize what is the language of business language of business is financed right so we teach CIOs how to speak the language of business and sounds a little bit rudimentary but it's truly not when you have speak wallet correct speak follow the dollars and that's what we're doing through TV and that's why so many companies have adopted this principle as the right way to run IT as a business but the tech enablement layer underneath it still very nascent just growing service now entry into it is you know just this year so it's going to be it's what's next in our mind so I got to ask the final question your outlook for service now buying opportunity of course bye bye bye doc took a real hammering on Friday and we kind of busted Frank's chops a little bit about that buddy address and we wanted to get that out there but it's a platform that is really well architected for this agile cloud native cloud born the cloud whatever you want to buzz where you want to call it and be enterprise grace interesting how they backed in from enterprise to now agile right so I mean this is really a unique historic use case for you know vendors right I mean usually oh I'm the big startup but I'm going to go the enterprise all right you go consumer then you go enterprise the interesting here there in the enterprise but now with consumerization of IT kind of happening yep interesting model do you see anything else like this out there I think it's unprecedented frankly I think it's a new model that service now is setting the standard for the platform the design principle that service now has had of being a platform first right and being able to be elastic and extend into non-traditional use cases i think is at the core of why there's so much value vendors it's a very easily accessible you system and it allows you to take the importance of of dead equality workflow analytics and link them in a way that is just simple I think Frank's movement built a new boat that is faster and more agile than the big aircraft carriers that are absolutely device absolute software companies I mean monolithic big book upfront licenses I mean yeah and why why wouldn't you as a consumer why wouldn't you want an agile platform that I could start as a rowboat and build an aircraft carrier and then take it back to a rowboat again why wouldn't I want to have that flexibility like uber okay trade rowboat for business growth let's go by the way battleship modern nukes they have machine and I mean so this is the model by you go create time to value yep in the budget so this is disruptive and innovative like Amazon yes but difference but the enterprise grade but it allows you think of it follows the speed of business it follows the nature of the contractions and expansions of it that that's the model I think going for if you're not enterprise-grade you're going to be meet and struggle to keep up with the change of business and again a platform like a service now allows you to scale and contract and expand into areas where you are comfortable right now it aligns with your strategy yeah so its purpose built for the enterprise it's not purpose-built for a function and I think particularly think that's powerful final question because we talk about digital transformation also i'll throw another word buzzword out there social business IBM used to call the web ebusiness no one uses that term anymore ebusiness that's the web that's the internet but they're also tell muscles which is now transcend it to be more okay social media all this stuff you know buzz more PR PR function maybe some buzz but now you're seeing the touchpoints be more business driven workflow driven so rank mentions email sucks you know that kind of thing my kids kind of figured that out already on their own right so you know they don't use email very much so good phone access is consumer so social business real not real similar to the like way IBM used to call ebusiness early on and what's your outlook for this categorical new direction I get I think it's just the next logical step or the evolution you're like they're like all things the speed of these changes are just compounding but gold again back to your your digital disruption your mobile your mobile platform is just now that piece of glass is is now your foundation for everything right and that's that's just simply a fact the the paradigm again of having a very set of elastic technologies that can get any set of glass that you want and you can transact business with that's fine i think the question any much most people are asking is where's the great user experience associated with that and you'll see I kpmg is a great example we we acquired a company that just focuses on the social experience that giri that you're having through this and and that's that's a science right and it's it's not just making pretty web pages like we did back in the dot-com days you know the spinning logo that wasn't not the point it's around what is the science behind me having a great customer experience which creates brand loyalty on this screen versus this screen versus my TV screen and how do I make that consistent I think you're going to see that more and more than science because it John please yesterday after we had our great bit kind of for the folks out there saw it throwing the water having a lot of fun he said I don't believe how holly was making the big movies and then the kids are watching on this screen so his whole point was old school like hey you have art now in the small screen yeah I think that's that's the technology business management angle to this is you got it you've got to be able to shift and make the right decisions steve bates principal and global director of their technology practice and KPMG the transformation is happening thanks for joining spending time and sharing some great insights here on the cube of course we believe everything you're saying as well so great stuff we write back on our next guest kind of grinding down day two of three days of coverage it's the cube we'll be right back after this short break you