(bright intro music) >> Hello and welcome to theCUBE coverage of AnsibleFest 2021, virtual, hybrid, all online now. It's been a hell of a year. It's been going great with all the interactions. AnsibleFest 2021, Carol Chen is here. She's the Principal Community Architect for Ansible Community with Red Hat. Carol, thanks for coming on the AnsibleFest 2021 virtual coverage. >> Thanks for having me here, John. >> You know, one of the things about the pandemic I was mentioning, there's the online communities have been really, that have been online, have thrived. Developers know how to do virtual, and virtual, first, now is becoming a norm for developers. So the pandemic, although it's been a really big inconvenience for many, developers, actually, haven't been truly impacted other than the face to face interactions around hallway conversations and events. You're seeing a lot more community open conversations happening more than ever before, just the trend itself was hot. Now you have more people collaborating. What's the state of the Ansible Community right now? Because you know, online content at an all-time high, I'm seeing videos hit. I've seen a lot of content flowing. All around the internet seems to be more action. What's the state of the Ansible Community? >> Yeah, definitely. And actually, from the very start Ansible Community is a very much online community because of the diverse nature in terms of, you know, geographical distribution and just people from all of the world coming together. So initially, I mean, of course we do have like in-person meet-ups, which were a popular thing before the pandemic. That kind of took a little backseat and while it turned virtual, initially, people were like wondering what to do, but, you know, we are used to video conferences and online chats. So virtual meet-ups became quite a popular thing in the first half of the pandemic. So pretty much most of last year, we actually saw a slight rise in the number of, the median number of attendees at these meet-ups, because it's more accessible. You can attend from home, you can, you know, you don't have to go to a physical place to attend these meet-ups. However, this year we are starting to see some virtual fatigue and, you know, the numbers are dropping a little bit, but, you know, hopefully with the, some parts of the world are opening up and we are seeing some meet-ups coming into, in person again, depending on the region, of course, because it's not the same around the world. But I think that the need for people to connect socially is always there, whether it's online or in person. And the Ansible Community is pretty strong in that. And I want to stress that a lot of these meet-ups are organized by the community members, not necessarily by Red Hat or the Ansible team. So, you know, the desire to connect with other people in the community has always there and it's going on strong. >> Yeah, that's a good call out on the community side. I think that the affinity groups around the communities, self forming these meet-ups. >> Right. >> People want to meet in person, that's going to come back. You're starting to see that hybrid. But it's also, you're starting to see again, a fatigue for being like attending these virtual events. But at the same time, you're seeing the asynchronous consumption still go high, too. You're seeing, "Okay, I can do a fly by the event." Or if it's in person, "I'd prefer that." But there's still a lot more asynchronous going on, and a lot more opportunities to contribute. And you guys have done this contributor summits virtually. Can you talk about that trend? Tell me about the virtual contributor summits. >> Sure. So of course we have our regular community meetings, weekly, in fact. But the contributor summit is a place where we can actually gather, previously it was face-to-face, usually part of AnsibleFest, like the day before or after, depending. And, you know, to really, you know, hash out different discussions and more in-depth technical analyses of different parts of the project that we were working on. Even though, virtually, we are still able to do that, and we are, actually, able to increase in frequency of these events. Usually, it used to be once or twice a year, depending on whether or not we have, when we have the AnsibleFest. But last year we had three contributors summits. And this year, the third one will happen along with AnsibleFest in September, end of September, so in this week. So yeah, you know, there's definitely the advantage of making things easier to, for participants. But um... >> Talk about the vibe- Talk about the vibe of the summit. I mean, these contributors. I mean, what's it like and what are people experiencing? Are they just contributing code? They working on projects? Is it hackathons? Is it more, >> Right. >> What's the format of, what are people preferring? What's the best practice? >> So, what we want to encourage is not just one person giving presentations and like a one-way thing, but actually a dialogue. So a lot of these discussions are kind of interactive. So we use tools that allow people, not just like streaming one direction, but people can also appear on video and talk and express their opinions and join the discussions or in chat if they prefer not to show their face. But in any case, it's a lot of times it's not a full presentation, but perhaps an introduction for 5, 10 minutes. And then we go to discussion of a certain topic in-depth. So it's a very, I would say discussion-based, and also we are introducing a hackathon at this contributor summit, because I think it's quite a popular thing for people to get hands-on experience or work on something right away with people to support them then and there. So, you know, you can get results in real-time. So in actual fact, even before the pandemic, our contributor summits have had like, a virtual online component. So we were doing hybrid events before they were, you know, called popular hybrid events, but... >> Before they were necessary, it was cool. >> Right, Right. Exactly. So, because like I said, our contributors are from around the world, so we always made sure that they had a way of participating in the contributor summit as well. >> Yeah. I think that's really important to point out. I mean, I won't say it's cool to do hybrids necessary now because of the pandemic, but that format actually is interesting because you got a linear event that's physical face to face. Certainly that's super valuable when that comes back. But now that the online side has kind of been tied together with the simulated live asynchronous capability, you have this new format. Talk about how you guys are taking that to the next level around trust. Because one of the things about being face-to-face and then being online and knowing people is working together and getting a feeling of trusting each other, right? So, this is a- >> Right. huge part of community. >> How are you guys, now that we're more dispersed than ever, how are you guys handling, or facilitating and nurturing that trust equation? >> Right. So as a open source project, one of the key things is we do a lot of the things in the open. We, you know, the pull request, the development of the code is all done in the open. That's, you know, a very kind of implicit trust that you can have through that. And also the community meetings are open up to the public. Anybody can join if they're interested in. And even if you're not able to join the meetings because time zones or whatever, we share the meeting minutes after the meetings to everyone. Which brings me to, we actually started a newsletter for the community called the Bullhorn, since last April, I think. Because, you know, again, we are trying to explore more channels to be able to reach to different people who may not be able to attend in person, or even during the same time as the community meetings. So they can have this bi-weekly newsletter every two weeks that, you know, shares the meeting minutes. What has been discussed, the new developments in the community, the new collections, updates, new tools and so on. So definitely we see, like, we want to improve the communication to the community and ways that they can provide feedback to us as well. >> And that's called the Bullhorn? That's just getting the word out? >> Yeah, Bullhorn. Yes. Thank you. >> It's like the updates, like it's like, you know, a quick, quick executive summary of kind of what's happening. Is that kind of the vibe? >> Right, Right. >> Okay. Well, I want to ask you specifically, I heard about this new Community Steering Committee. What's the purpose of this? What's this evolving into? Can you give us some background on the purpose and the objective of the community? >> Yeah Sure. Yeah. We established the Ansible Community Steering Committee earlier this year, and as we were saying that the Ansible project is growing, so of course the user community, and also, they're very happy to say that the contributor community is growing. So, you know, we want to provide a better structure for the upstream Ansible project. And a lot of changes are taking place that we want to have some, a group of people to be able to facilitate that. For example, people are, want to make, create new collections, Ansible collections, for automated technologies that they are, you know, working on, or even contribute to existing collections that they have invested interest in. So what are some of the procedures and policies that are needed? Right? So the Steering Committee defines these procedures and make sure that the new content coming in are in compliance to the policies and so on. I mean, this kind of decision-making and stuff has been happening in the committee, I mean the community in an ad hoc manner, to a large extent, even before this. But having the Steering Committee will provide, to add more structure, like I said, and also guidance and accountability for the Ansible Community. >> That's awesome. You know, I love, first of all, I love your title, Principal Community Architect. And you know, one of the things I've always been a big fan of with Ansible, and now as part of Red Hat, is one, Red Hat didn't screw up Ansible. They let it become what it was and became really big with the combination. But the community has always been content driven. And now you've got recipes, you've got collections, you've got content, but the community piece is key. And right now, more than ever with the pandemic, community is more important than ever before. Open source is more important than ever before. How do you look at the architecture of how to sustain and evolve communities to be more inclusive and to grow and to survive and thrive post pandemic? What's your learnings? What's your vision on architecting community for the future? >> I think the key thing is to really find channels and ways to listen to the community. We talk about how to reach our newsletter or whatever, meetings to the community, but it's also what's coming from them. If we don't listen to what they have to say, we don't know what they want and how we can make the community better, the process better for them. I mean, I've been managing different open source communities before Ansible, but every community is different, right? I cannot say what worked for the previous community works for this. So I always try to reach out to the current members in the Ansible Community and hear what they have to say, their complaints, their criticisms, good and bad, because, you know, without those feedback, we cannot grow and we cannot improve. So, and I myself, I've lived in three different continents. So I know the struggle of whether it's like language barriers or time zone restrictions. So, you know, we keep all these in mind as we, you know, build our relationships with the community. >> And I think there's, I think there's a real opportunity with this new virtual standards that not yet emerged. I mean, you mentioned you've been doing hybrid, which has always been part of a physical event, which is going to become normal. But I think there's an opportunity that we're learning in this past a year and a half, where there are new, there are new things and there's, it's good, bad and ugly. I mean, there's been some really ugly conferences. Virtual's a bit painful. But there's also been some really nice moments where people are seeing interaction. So is there any learnings that you've taken away from this past year and a half that you can point to that you might want to share with folks watching around how to tap into the magical moments that could be enabled by, you know, the virtual and or bringing people together? >> You know, I myself, I'm a lover of technology, anything new I like to try. So definitely in this pandemic there's been lots of opportunities to try different technologies. What works, what doesn't work. I think, you know, just trying things out helps. I know sometimes people are resistant to change. I myself sometimes find it hard to change my ways in, in certain, you know, I'm used to this too. I want to use it most of the time, but. But anyway, you know, give, things a chance, but most, I think most importantly, is focus on the people. Because technology aside, it is the people you are reaching out to. Right? So again, listen what they have to say. You know? If this doesn't work for them, find out what they prefer, or you know, what, how we can make things better to improve things for them. So I always keep the focus on the people, on the community and, you know, give new technology a chance. And you know sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but you don't know 'til try and yeah, just- >> Jump in the water is warm. >> Hope for the best. >> Come on in, water is fine. So the meet-ups are happening. >> Right. >> People are getting together where there, where there's a geography opportunity where there's not a lot of scaring, too much scare going on with the meet-ups. So that's cool. What, what is the current AnsibleFest 2021 key thing that you'd like people to walk away with Carol? Because obviously the momentum is continuing. The world needs to go on. We are seeing hybrid, and then we're going to end up coming out of this soon. What's the, what's the key message this year from the AnsibleFest 2021, from the community. >> That, Ansible is open, Ansible is, you know, open to contributions from anyone. And especially the Ansible Community team is working very hard to make things easy and accessible. So please feel free to visit Ansible.com/community for ways of reaching us. And, you know, use Ansible to automate your stuff, and then use the free time that you have from that to spend more time for your family and friends. >> That's great. Be open. Listen. Now you've got a Steering Committee to steer that ship in the right direction. Congratulations. Thanks for coming on theCUBE and for the update, really appreciate it. Again, props to the community at the Ansible part of Red Hat. You guys do a great job. And again, we'll see you on the other side of the pandemic and thanks for coming in remotely all the way in Finland. >> Thank you so much for having me. Its been my pleasure. Thanks. >> Thank you, Carol. I'm John Furrier for AnsibleFest 2021 coverage. This is theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (bright exit music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Red Hat. Summit 2020 Brought to you by Red Hat. >>Hi, I'm stupid, man. And this is the Cube's coverage of the Red Hat Summit 2020 course. The event this year is digital. We're talking to Red Hat executives, partners and customers where they are around the globe, pulling them in remotely happy to welcome back to the program. One of our Cube alumni on a very important topic, of course, that red hat open shift and joining me is Clayton Coleman. Who's the open shift chief architect with Red Hat. Clayton, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you >>for having me today. >>All right, So before we get into the product, it's probably worthwhile that we talked about you know what's happening in the community and talking specifically, you know, kubernetes the whole cloud, native space. Normally we would have gotten together. I would have seen you at Cube Con Ah, you know, at the end of March. But instead, here we are at the end of April. Looking out, you know, more CN cf events later this year, but first Red Hat Summit is a great open source event and broad community. So would really love your viewpoint as to what's happening in that ecosystem. >>It's been a really interesting year, obviously. Ah, with an open source community, you know, we react to this. Um, like we always react to all the things that go on in open source. People come to the community and sometimes they have more time, and sometimes they have less time. I think just from a community perspective, there's been a lot of people you know. It's reaching out to their colleagues outside of their companies, to their friends and coworkers and all of the different participants in the community. And there's been a lot of people getting together for a little bit of extra time trying todo, you know, connect virtually where they can't connect physically. And it's been it's been great to at least see where we've come this year. We haven't had Cube con and that'll be coming up later this year. But Kubernetes just had the 1 18 release, and I think Kubernetes is moving into that phase where it's a mature, open source project. We've got a lot of the processes down. I'm really happy with the work that the steering committee, um, has gone through. We handed off the last of the bootstrap Steering Committee members hand it off to the new, fully elected steering committee last year, and it's gone absolutely smoothly, which has been phenomenal on the The core project is trying to be a little bit more stable and to focus on closing out those loose ends being a little bit more conservative to change. And at the same time, the ecosystem has really exploded in a number of directions, as as Kubernetes becomes more of a bedrock technology for, um, enterprises and individuals and startups and everything in between. We've really seen a huge amount of of innovation in the space, and every year it just gets bigger and bigger. There's a lot of exciting projects that >>I >>have never even talk to somebody on the Kubernetes project. But they have made and build and, uh, and solve problems for their environments without us ever having to be involved, which I think it's success. >>Yeah, Clayton, you know, one of the challenges when you talk to practitioners out there is just keeping up with the pace of change. Can really be challenging. Something we really saw acutely was Docker was rolling out updates every six weeks. Most customers aren't going to be able to change fast enough to keep up with things you love your view point both is toe really what the CN CF says, as well as how Red Hat thinks of products. So you talked about you know, kubernetes 1.18. My understanding, even Google isn't yet packaging and offering that version there. So there's a lag between things. And as we start talking about managing across lots of clusters, how does Red Hat think of this? How should customers think about this? How do we make sure that we're, you know, staying secure and keeping updated on things without getting run over by the constant treadmill of >>change? That the interesting part about kubernetes Is it so much more than just that core project? You know, no matter what any of us in the in the core kubernetes project or in the products that red hat that build around open shift and layers on top, there's a There's a whole ecosystem of components that most people think of this fundamental to accomplishing building applications deploying them, running them, Whether it's their continuous integration pipelines or it's their monitoring stacks, we really as communities has become a little bit more conservative. >>Um, I >>think we really nail down our processes for taking that change from the community, testing it. You know, we run tens of thousands of automation tests a week on the latest and greatest kubernetes code, given time to soak, and we did it together with all those pieces of the ecosystem and then make sure that they work well together. And I've noticed over the last two years that the rate of oops we missed that in KUBERNETES 1 17 that by the time someone saw it, people are already using that that started to go down for us, it really hasn't been about the pace of keeping up with the upstream. But it's about making sure that we can responsibly pull together all the other ecosystem components that are still have much newer and a little bit. How do we say, Ah, they are then the exciting phase of their development while still giving ah predictable, reliable update stream. I would say that the challenges that most people are going to see is how they bring together all those pieces. And that's something that, on open shift, we think of as our goal is to help pull together all the pieces of this ecosystem, Um, and to make some choices for customers that makes sense and to give them flexibility where it's not clear yet what the right choice might be or where different people could reasonably disagree. And I'm really excited. I feel like we've got our We have a release cadence down and we're shipping the latest Cube after it's had time to quickly review, and I think we've gotten better and better at that. So I'm really proud of the team on Red Hat and how they've worked within the community so that everybody benefits from that in that testing of that stability. >>Great. I'd like to teach here, you dig in a little bit on the application side what's happening from the work loads that customers are using? Ah, what other innovations happening around that space? And how is Red Hat really helping? Really, The the infrastructure team and the developer team work even closer together, like Red Hat has done for a long time. >>This is This is a great question. I say There's two key, um, two key groups coming together. People are bringing substantial important critical production workloads, and they expect things both to just work, but also to be able to understand it. And they're making the transition. Ah, lot of folks I talked to were making the transition from previous systems they've got. They've been running open shift for a while, or they've been running kubernetes for a while, and they're getting ready to move, um, a significant portion of their applications over. And so, you know, in the early days of any project, you get the exciting Greenfield development and you get to go play with new technologies. But as you start moving your 1st 1 and then 10 and then 100 of your core business applications from the EMS or from bare metal into containers, you're taking advantage of that technology in a responsible way. And so the the expectations on us as engineers and community members is to really make sure that we're closing out the little stuff. You know, no bug is too small, but it can't trip up someone's production applications. So seeing a lot of that whether it's something new and exciting like, Um uh, model is a service or ai workloads or whether it's traditional big enterprise transaction processing. APS on the other side on that development, um, model I think we're starting to see phase to our community is 2.0, in the community, which is people are really leveraging the flexibility and the power of containers, things that aren't necessarily new to people who had. We got into containers early and had a chance to go through a couple of iterations. But now people are starting to find patterns that up level development teams, so being able to run applications the same way on a local machine as in a production environment. Well, most production environments are there now, and so people are really having toe. They're having to go through all of their tools and saying, Well, does this process that works for an individual developer also work when I want to move it there, my production or staging environments to production, and so on. New projects like K native and tectonic, which are kubernetes native, that's just one part of the ecosystem around development. On top of kubernetes, there's tons of exciting projects out there from companies that have adopted the full stack of kubernetes. They built it into their mindset, this idea of flexible infrastructure, and we're seeing this explosion of new ways where kubernetes is really just a detail, and containers are just the detail and the fact that it's running this little thing called Docker down at the heart of it. Nobody talks about anymore, and so that that transition has been really exciting. I think there's a lot that we're trying to do to help developers and administrators see eye to eye. And a lot of it's learning from the customers and users out there who really paved the way the which is the open source way. It's learning from others and helping others benefit from that. >>Yeah, I think you bring up a really important point we've been saying for a couple of years. Now that you know KUBERNETES should get to the point where it's boring and boring in a way also cause it's gonna be baked in everywhere we saw from basically customers just taking the code, really spending a lot of their own things by building the stack to, of course, lots of customers have used open shift over the year to If I'm adopting Public Cloud more and more, they're using those services from that standpoint. Can you talk a bit about how Red Hat is really integrating with public clouds? And you know your architectural technical philosophy on that? And how might that be? Differ from some other companies that you might call a little bit more, you know, Cloud of Jason, as opposed to being deeply integrated with the public cloud. >>The interesting thing about Kubernetes is that while it was developed on top of the clouds, it wasn't really built from Day one assuming a cloud underneath it. And I think that was an opportunity that we really missed. And to be fair, we had to make the thing work first before we depended on these unreliable clouds. You know, when we started, the clouds were really hitting their stride on stability and reliability, and people were it was the hot was becoming the obvious choice to some of what we've tried to do is take flexible infrastructure is a given, um, assume that the things that the cloud provides should be programmed for the for the benefit of the developer and the application, and I think that's a that's a key trend is we're not using the cloud because our administration teams want us. We're using the cloud because it makes us more powerful developers. That enables new scenarios. It shortens the the time between idea reality. What we have done in open shift is we've really built around The idea of open shift running on a cloud should take advantage of that cloud to an extreme degree, which is infrastructure could be flexible. The machines in that cluster need to come and go according to the demands of the applications on top of it. So giving a little bit more power to the cluster and taking a little bit of way from the cloud I'm. But that benefits. That also needs to benefit that those who are running on premise because I think, as you noted, our goal is you want this ubiquitous kubernetes environment everywhere, and the operations teams and the development teams and the Dev Ops teams in between need to have a consistent environment and so you can do this on the cloud. But you don't have that flexibility on premise. You've lost something. And so what we've tried to do as well is to think about those ideas that are what we think of as quote unquote cloud native that starts with a mutable operating systems. It starts with everything being declarative and working backwards from, you know, I wanna have 15 machines and then the cluster or controllers on the cluster say, Oh, well, you know, one of the machines has gone bad. Let's replace it on the cloud. You ask for a new I'm cloud infrastructure provider or you ask the the cloud a p i for a new machine, and then you replace it automatically, and no one knows any better on premise. We'd love to do the same thing with both bare metal virtualization on top of kubernetes. So we have that flexibility to say you may not have all of the options, but we should certainly be able to say, Oh, well, this hardware is bad or the machine stopped, so let's reboot it, and there's a lot of that same mindset that could be applied. We think that'll, um if you need virtualization, you can always use it. But virtualization is a layer on top benefits from some of the same things that all the other extensions and applications on top of kubernetes competitive trump. So trying to pay that layer and make sure that you have flexible, reliable storage on premise through our SEF and red hat storage products, which are built on top of the cluster exactly like virtualization, is both on top of the cluster. So you get cloud native storage mixed in working with those teams toe. Take those operational best practices. You know there's well, I think one of the things that interests me is no. 1 20 years ago, who was running an early version of SEF wouldn't have some approach to run these very large things that scales organizations like CERN have been using SEF for over a decade at extremely large scales. Some of what our mindset is we think it's time to bake some of that knowledge actually into our software for a very long time. We've kind of been building out and adding more and more software, but we always left the automation and the the knowledge about how that software supposed to be run to the side. And so by taking that and we talked about operators. Kubernetes really enshrines. This principle is taking that idea, taking some of that operational knowledge into the software we ship. Um, though that software can rely on kubernetes open shift tries to hide the details of the infrastructure underneath and our goal. I think in the long run it will just make everybody's lives easier. I shouldn't have to ship you a SEF admin for you to be successful. And we think we think there's a lot more room here that's really gonna improve how operations teams work, that the software that they use day to day. >>So Clinton you mentioned virtualization is one of the topics in there. Of course, virtualization is very prevalent in a customer's data center environment today. Red Hat open shift, oftentimes in data centers, is sitting on BM ware environments. Of course. Recently, VM Ware announced that they have kubernetes baked into the solution, and red hat has open shift with red hat virtualization. Maybe, you know, without going into too much depth, and you probably have breakouts and white papers on this. But you know what kind of decision point should customers be thinking about when they're deciding? Do I do this in bare metal. Do I do it in virtualization? What are some of the, you know, just high level trade offs there when they need to make those decisions, >>I think it's, um I think the 1st 1 is Virtualization is a mature technology. It's a known quantity for many organizations, and so those who are comfortable with virtualization, I'd say, like any responsible, uh, architecture engineering team. You don't want to stop using something that's working well just because you can. And a lot of what I would see as the transition that companies on is for some organizations without a big investment in virtualization. They don't see the need for it anymore, except as maybe a technical detail of how they isolate insecure workloads. One of the great things about virtualization technology that we're all aware of over the last couple years is it creates a boundary between work loads and the underlying environment. That doesn't mean that the underlying environment and containers can't be as secure or benefit from those same techniques. And so we're starting to see that in the community, this kind of spectrum of virtualization all the way from the big traditional virtualization to very streamlined, stripped down virtualization wrappers around containers. Um, like some of the cloud providers use for their application environments. So I'm really excited about the open source. Community is touching each of these points on the spectrum. Some of our goals are if you're happy with your infrastructure provider, we want to work well with, and that's kind of the pragmatic of everyone's on a different step in that journey. The benefit of containers is no matter how fast you make of VM, it's never gonna be quite as fast, is it containers. And it's never gonna be quite as easy for a developer to run on their laptop. And I think working through this is there's still a lot of work that we as a community to do around, making it easier for developers to build containers and test them locally in smaller environments. But all of that flexibility can still benefit from virtualization under later or virtualization used as an isolation technology. So projects like Kata and some of the work that's being done in the open source community around projects like firecracker taking the same, um, open source ideas and remixing them a different points gives us a lot of flexibility. So I would say, um, I'm actually less interested in virtualization then all of the other technologies that are application centric and at the heart of it, a VM isn't really a developer centric idea. It's specifically an administrative concept that benefits the administrator, and developers can take advantage of it. But I think all of the capabilities that you think of when you think about building an application like scaling out and making sure patches are applied, being able to roll back separating your configuration on then all of the hundreds of other levels of complexity that will add around that like service MASH and the ability to gracefully tolerate failures in your database. These were where I think, um, virtualization needs to work with the platform rather than being something that dominates how we think about the platform. It's application first, not being first. >>Yeah, no, you're absolutely right that the critique I've always given, you know for a number of years now is if you look at virtualization, the promise was, let's take that old application that probably should have been updated and just shove it in a VM and never think about it again. That's not doing good things for the user. So if I look at that at one end of the spectrum away at the other end of the spectrum, trying not to think about infrastructure, you mentioned K native s 01 of the things that you know I've been digging in tryingto learn more about at Red Hat Summit has really been the open shift server lists. So give us the update on that piece. Um, you know, that's obviously very different discussion than what we were just having from a virtualization standpoint. Eso How does open shift look at server lists? How does that tie into what? You know, if I'm doing server, listen, Amazon versus you know some of the other open source options for serverless. How should I be thinking about that? >>There's a lot of great choices on the spectrum out there. I think one of the interesting things and I love the word spectrum here because cane native kind of sits in a spot where it tries to be, as the name says, it tries to be as kubernetes native as possible, which lets you tap into some of those additional capabilities when you need it. And one of the things I've always appreciate it is the more restrictive framework is usually the better. It is doing that one thing and doing it really well. We learned this with rails. We learned this with no Js. And as people have built over the years, the idea of simple development platforms. The core function idea is a great simple idea, but sometimes you need to break out of that. You need extra flexibility or your application needs to run longer or slow Start is actually an issue. One of the things I think is most interesting about K native and I see comers and user. I think this way it's a good point. Um, that gives you some of the flexibility of kubernetes and a lot of the simplicity of, um, the functions is a service, but I think that there's going to be an inevitable set of use cases that tie into that which are simpler where open organization has a very opinionated way of running applications, and I think that flexibility will really benefit K native. Whereas some of the more opinionated remarks around server lists lose a little bit of that. So that's one dimension that I still think a native is well positioned to kind of capture the broadest possible audience, which for kubernetes and Containers was kind of our mindset. We wanted to solve enough of the problems that you can solve. You can run all your software. We don't have to solve all those problems to such a level that there's endless complexity, although we've been accused of having endless complexity and Cooper days before, but just trying to think through what are the problems that everyone's going to have to give them a way out? I'm at the same time for us, when we think about prioritization functions is service about integration. It's about taking applications and connecting them, connecting them through kubernetes. And so it really depends on identity and access to data and tying that into your cloud environment. If you're running on top of a cloud or tying it into your back end databases, if your on premise, >>I >>think that is where the ecosystem is still working to bring together and standardize some of those pieces in kubernetes or on top of Kubernetes. What I'm really excited about is the team as much. You know, there's been this core community effort to get a native to a G, a quality. Alongside that, the open shift serverless team has been trying to make it a dramatically simpler action. If you have kubernetes and open shift, it's a one click action to get started with, Um Kay native and just like any other technology. How accessible it is determines how easy users find it to get started and to build the applications they need. So for us, it's not just about the core technology. It's about someone who's not familiar with Serverless or not familiar with kubernetes. Bring up an editor and build a function and then deploy it on top of open shift. See it scale out like a normal kubernetes application, not having to know about pods or persistent volumes or notes. And so these air, these are some of the steps. I've been really proud that the team's done. I think there's a huge amount of innovation that will happen this year and next year, as the maturity of the kubernetes ecosystem really grows up, we'll start to see standardized technologies, for I'm sharing identity across multiple clouds across multiple environments. It's no good if you've got these applications on the cloud that need to tie into your corporate L dap. But you can't connect your corporate held up to the cloud. And so your applications need 1/3 identity system. Nobody wants 1/3 identity system. And so, working through some of this thing where the challenges I think that hybrid organizations are already facing and our job is just to work with them in the open source communities and with the cloud providers partner with them and open source so that the technologies in kubernetes fit very well into whatever environment they run it. Alright, >>well, Clayton, really appreciate all the updates there. I know the community is definitely looking forward to digging through some of the breakout sessions reading all the new announcements. And, of course, we look forward to seeing you on the team participating in many of the kubernetes related events happening later this >>year. That's right. It's ah, gonna be a good year. >>All right. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm still Minuteman and as always thank you for watching you. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat okay welcome back everyone live here in San Francisco California at Moscone West is the cubes exclusive coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John for your Cohoes with my co Sam John Troy co-founder of tech reckoning and as an analyst firm and community development advisory a next guests a star meter senior manager community leads at Red Hat welcome to the cube good to see you again so obviously the success of open source is grounded in community we'd love talking about community and there's a lot of new things happening new dynamics that are somewhat similar to us in the past but a new generation is coming into open source it's clear by the growth I mean go to any any event and you know just that the Linux Foundation event Jim's daylan's or is it to slide out exponential growth more code coming in so you know give to trot out all the ethos contribute be part of a project and so that the lines are still there but it's evolving and what's your thoughts on on it as it grows I'm looking at the big ecosystem here growing at Red Hat more contributors more projects more products yeah we definitely have the communities are growing and we have more participation and all the projects across the board and I think one of the things that's interesting is the the projects that we're working on are things that one person can't develop or use all on their own and we're talking like software-defined storage or talking OpenStack big solutions and so companies are paying people to work on them and I think over the last 10 years that's been the really big difference like our shares with Dirk at VM was heading up all their open sources and we just didn't Copenhagen and he was reiterating and reminding me because I found myself falling in the trap and a lot of new companies that come into open source I am gonna I'm gonna get people involved in a product I'm gonna join that project so we can commercialize the project versus commercialize their offering and being part of our project so Dirk when I were talking and he was emphasizing languages everything language defines behavior and that the project is an open contributed project on it the product that's commercialized is different and this is not new to read that but it's worth just reeling some of the language as new people come in your thoughts on this yeah so Red Hat we're really clear on what's upstream what's the open source version that everyone is working on together and then what's the version that we're supporting for our customers they have the same codebase they have the same features but the upstream version we call a project and the downstream version we call a product and sometimes they're even branded differently for example manage IQ is the upstream project in cloud forms Red Hat cloud forms is the downstream product and that's where the action is for Red Hat to to commercialize and or productize alright Lord and get all around it but then they contribute everything backups everything's developed upstream so you and you and the other community managers are you at Red Hat it's a little bit different right open source the open source way and open source ethos so you do have a you know these open source communities as well as user communities are you involved with both I mean how do you how do you meld the two how do you differentiate the two you know in the context of Red Hat if I'm a Red Hat customer yes so they're all the same or overlapping so usually you'll have a core group of contributors who maybe some maybe Red Hat employees some may work at another company that either a user company or a partner company some may be individuals working on it and it's kind of your core base but then you have like people that that are participating watching very carefully may be contributing once in a while that are watching that and then you have users and so they're not separate groups of people they're overlapping groups of people that's great the in terms of community here at the show right once you have community that's that's 365 right you come you come to an event and it's like kind of like homecoming so how has the experience been this year for you at Red Hat summit with the Red Hat community people coming together you know a community activities that sort of thing it's it's a really great place to bring people together so that we have all of our customers we have contributors and everyone is on the floor talking so like we're in community central here the floor and our booth has been full of people all day long even when they announce that it's closing there's still people around and talking and we have everything from customer events where we talk to customers about how we work on an upstream - actually that we've had contributor meetups where everyone gets together and meets all their fellow contributors in person how do you guys handle the growth because you know with with growth you have still new ideas coming in so you want to keep an open inclusive environment is there any new things you guys are doing they make sure all the best ideas are being surfaced up or is it the same program seems to think keep going that that way I think I think the best projects evolve over time so we're always looking at the governance of our projects and does it fit where that project is right now and so when a project first starts out it might have a benevolent dictator and then later when it has more contributors and more companies involved you might have even might evolve to a board or to a technical group so for example Gluster we just graduated to a group of maintainer x' that make decisions as opposed to just a project lead is there like a norm or is there a certain pattern that emerges for the puck the programs up I mean the project's having a certain format that you seen that works best or this is more ad hoc based on who's involved it's a little ad hoc but I think most of them start with a very strong personality who has a vision and so a lot of them start either as benevolent dictators or as you know someone who's the main project lead and then as they grow bigger over time you end up with more of a voting member to board of directors Stiles to like Apache and then now today there's a lot of foundations involved to write some some things are are in the Red Hat orbit more more closely others we you know like we were just at KU con so the all the Linux Foundation different the for instance the kubernetes the CN CF as well as stuff like you know the Cloud Foundry and OpenStack foundation so I mean can you talk a little bit about the role of foundations now in modern community in socially open-source yeah I think it's it's part of this evolution from all the contributors we're working as individuals which they still are two companies being able to to pay for people to work on these projects and so the companies want to not just give people time to these projects they also want to donate money and pull their resources to do joint marketing or to push kubernetes forward and so organizations like the CNCs the Linux Foundation enable those companies to work together more effectively if done a good job of balancing I mean they got a lot of logos I mean a lot of people paying them money so there's a commercial aspect but they've been very transparent about that trying to create a great core community and they've separated the technical steering committee from the membership which is smart most the foundations are really good about leaving the technical steering committee to work as it's worked well in open-source and then having the company has pulled their money for for marketing or for filling in the holes where they're not getting volunteers start go ahead well story I just wanted to extend the governance conversation a little bit to the culture as well the I mean we're we're in an interesting place again 2018 in our bigger culture those of us who've been involved in online culture and online communities we know the ways these things can go wrong and we've seen it you know how do you as an individual and your team develop and foster a inclusive and participatory culture in your in the communities of Red Hat I think he said we've all seen things go wrong but I think we also have a lot of experience now about how to foster the culture that we would like and how to include people and so you're seeing a lot more efforts like most online communities are pretty nice places to hang out these days and you're seeing a lot of effort to make sure there's code of conduct for the projects that there's kind of conduct for the events that people are welcome there's a diversity event tomorrow here and so I think we're seeing a lot more inclusiveness and a real effort to bring people in you guys attract a younger demographic we were talking earlier with Denise and because it's open source you got academic you could go as high school is seeing everything from robotics clubs - you know coding early on so you get the redheads getting the mirth for her Li and so she made the kind we're gonna grow our own talent so you know kind of a tongue-in-cheek but you guys have access to a lot of the younger developers any commentary on you know the orientation shop see their loved mission-driven act the younger folks love mission driven and tech but is there any kind of a new school kind of concepts you seen coming from the young guns that are coming up through the ranks so I recently had a chance to speak to a classroom full of college students and that was you really impressed like they knew what open source was they were familiar with licenses and they all wanted to like make their app or make money but they were really focused on humanitarian causes at the same time and so as you really impressed with that I want to do well in my career but I want to make a difference in the world in a better place on that I was really exciting the safe and now more than ever you with a global footprint we just had UNICEF on earlier here Red Hat labs doing some pretty cool things around you know code for good so I think that's cool the challenge we're seeing is is that okay as enterprises come in the continued balance has always been the case you don't want the big one vendor coming in for on their weight around and we're seeing like even with Java you know which is Oracle Java emails Oracle seeing movement that's kind of opening up so it seems the business model seems to be pretty clear opens winning we certainly think so at Red Hat the best model is to be open what's it like to work here it's a really awesome place to work I love all the people that I work with you know everyone red hat really takes the open-source culture not just to its codebase but also to the culture that it has within the organization and decisions are made openly discussed openly everyone gets input everyone doesn't always get to a vote but everyone gets to to have a say and it's listen to it it's a great place to work technical culture as well I'll see techies very technical - as the as the ecosystem grows right there's obviously a lot more participants in the community and so if a company wants to get involved either say like in the kubernetes community or in the openshift community you know what's the right way for a company to come in and participate in that kind of a community and and maybe what are some wrong ways if a company wants to get involved in the community I think the first thing they do is find them online right are they on IRC talking are they on flack talking join the mailing list go to whatever events are local to you your local meetups go to the big events if you can and just put people on it people that know what you're trying to do with it and can contribute you know either with getting started documentation or with bug reports yeah I think it does have to come down to the people you have to send actual people and it can't be some sort of corporate motion and in some ways community is all about people and making connections it's absolutely about people I start talk about your experience this year right had somehow see the numbers are bigger they're getting great the company's being rate reviews from financial analysts open ship has been very popular some of the obviously this is what kubernetes has been phenomenal o open stacks got a bunch of life into it you seen separation clear visibility now on how things are kind of clicking together on the app side core OS is in it's just interesting right is there it heads kind of going to a home of the level what's the conversations like here inside the hall people who aren't here watching didn't have a chance to come what's what's the main conversations the chatter what's been the focus in the community central booth I think the focus has been on how things work together like how our different products work together and how you can use them together as well as like how do I follow along like how do I participate if I want to know where our do is going where do I go to to be part of it what's the coolest thing you've heard here at the show and you could share story oh the coolest thing I've heard I don't know if I have a moment but it's just been all the conversations and like the fact that there's people flowing through all the time it's like standing room only in the booth because people want to talk there's a lot of action a lot of face-to-face engagement all right I do have a stir so we had um we taught these uh these red hat when she Boston and taught these middle school girls how to make cameras that open the hardware and open-source software has anyone talked to you about this no and so they made these cameras and then we flew a couple of them out here and they taught a group of people here at the events on Monday how to make so these 11 year olds twelve year olds taught them how to make cameras how to open hardware and open-source software and I was out talking to one of them about what was different about teaching it that that was probably my favorite moment it's hard to be teacher when yeah you got em together know the material yeah but that's paying it forward that's the open sore thief ethos yeah that's we're talking about sorry thanks for coming on the cube and sharing good to see you again congratulations on all the success and again the community is buzzing you guys are doing great and exciting so thanks for coming on and sharing appreciate it thanks for having me live cube coverage here in San Francisco for Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John Frusciante for stay with us day 2 coverage continues for three days of coverage after this short break be right back [Music]

>> SiliconANGLE Media presents... theCUBE! Covering AlibabaCloud's annual conference. Brought to you by Intel. Now, here's John Furrier... >> Hello everyone, welcome to Silicon Angle's theCUBE here on the ground, in Hangzhou, China. We're here at the Intel Booth as part of our coverage, exclusive coverage of Alibaba Cloud Conference here in the cloud city. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE, Wikibon and theCUBE. And I'm here with CJ Bruno, who is the Corporate Vice President and General Manager of Global Accounts of the sales and marketing group at Intel. That's a mouthful but basically you run a lot of the major accounts, you bring a lot of value to Intel Supplier to these big clouds. >> I do, John. We look after our top 20 or so largest partners and customers around the world. Amazing like Alibaba, edge to cloud enterprises, deep rich engagements, just an exciting, exciting time to be in the business with these big customers. >> And there's no borders to the cloud so its not as easy as saying PC, like people might think of Intel in the old days. You guys have these major cloud providers, there's a lot of intel inside so to speak but that value is enabling a new kind of functionality. We're hearing it here at the show. >> You are. We work together with partners like Ali, in the area of such big artificial intelligence development, big data analytics and of course, the cloud. We've been working with them for over 12 years now and you can see the advancements and the services that they're providing to their customers, not only domestically, here in China but on a global stage as well. >> Its interesting, Intel, you've been working with these guys for 12 years, what a journey, from an entrepreneurial 12 guys in a dorm room, or an apartment for Jackie Ma, that he talks about all the time, to now the powerhouse. What's it like, because these guys have an interesting formula going on here. They're bringing culture and art, with science, kind of sounds like Steve Jobs, technology meets liberal arts, bringing a cultural aspect. How far have they come? Give us some insight into where they've come from and where you think they're going. >> Its amazing, Jack Ma, yesterday in his keynote, talked about this event eight years ago. 120 people, John, we're standing amongst 60,000 or so, in this event today, just eight short years later. Its amazing what they've been able to do. They're driving innovation, this is not a copy economy, it's an innovation economy. They invest, very high-degree of technical acumen. Willingness to break barriers, try things people have not. Fail fast and correct. Take risks. They're entrepreneurs at heart, they're technologists in their bloodstream and they really invest to win. >> You guys are supplying. We talked to people who talk about Photonics, Deeraj Malik, who's really going deep on these pathways around. Some of the Intel innovations, some of it's like wow, mind-blowing. The other end is just practical stuff, making it easier, faster, simpler to run things. IoT, their big use case, I mean you can't get any more sexier than looking at a city cloud that's actually running the city with traffic and all those IoT devices, so what is the big thing that you guys do for Alibaba? Talk about that journey because its not one thing, what is it? What is the magical formula? >> Sure, of course, first off we deliver, we think, world-class ingredients to their world-class cloud. And enable them to deliver amazing services to their customer, at the base level. But we really work together to solve societal problems. Look at the precision medical cloud that we announced last April together, John. Genome sequencing, solving people's cancer problems, in a matter of days, instead of months. Just one example of the real use case that we bring these technologies to bear on and have an amazing influence. We work on them with the Tenatchi Medical Imaging Competition. 3,000 entrants competing to see who can identify lung cancer quickest, and we have some winners selected, just this week. So these things are real, taking this technology, solving real life problems, and business problems, around the globe. >> And its not just the big, heaving lifting technology that moves the needle, like you were mentioning but its also the micro technologies, like FPGA, you guys have got lot of things. This is like the new Intel, so I'd love to get your thoughts, if you can just take a moment to share the journey that Intel is on right now because you gave a talk yesterday, a kind of a keynote, onstage. What is the Intel journey right now look like? >> We're transforming ourselves from a PC centric company to a company that runs the cloud and powers countless numbers, billions and billions of smart-connected devices. That's a big journey we're on. We've diversified our business significantly in a five year period, John. Driving our data-center business, our IoT business, our programmable logic business as you said, our friends from former Alterra are now two years inside Intel. Our memory business, our NSG technologies, 3D NAND Optane, driving breakthroughs in SSDs and of course new technologies that we're exploring, like drones and neuromorphic computing, making sure we never miss the next big thing. >> I've been following Intel for 30 years of my career and life, as an initial user-developer and now in the media. It's interesting, Intel has never done it alone, it's always been part of the ecosystem. You have brought a lot of goods to the party, so to speak, in technology, Moore's law and the list is endless. Now is an end to end game but you look at 5G for instance, you kind of connect the dots, put a radio frequency cloud over a city and you got to run the IoT devices like a city brain, they're showing here. You got to tie it together with programmable arrays, it's a hardware thing but now the software guys are doing it. You've got cloud native with the Linux Foundation, that's DevOps. You've got data centers that are 10 to one silicon to the edge, this is a wide opportunity, how do you guys make sense of it to customers? Because its a complex story. >> It is John, look, we're the ultimate ingredient supplier. We're bringing forward technologies in artificial intelligence, in 5G, in VR and AR, areas that are just autonomous everything. Autonomous driving in particular. These are big investment areas we're driving into that require an enormous amount to compute, storage, networking, connectivity and we're making the investments to make sure we're critical partners with our customers, in all those huge growth areas. Making us a big growth company now. >> I had a great conversation with Dr. Wong, who's the founder of Alibaba Cloud, he's on the Technology Steering Committee for Alibaba Group and yesterday they just announced a 15 billion dollar investment over three years for FinTech, across the board IoT, AI, collaborate with scientists as well as artisans. This is a big deal. >> It is John, this is exactly an example of what I mentioned earlier. These guys invest to win and they have a will to win. And they want to pioneer and they want to innovate and they put their money where their mouth is, in that announcement, its pretty exciting. >> So the cloud serves quite a market, doing really well. Your global accounts are doing well, certainly in Asia and People's Republic of China, PRC, as you guys call it, extremely well but now there's a Renaissance in cloud in general, so we're expecting to see a lot more cloud service providers, maybe not as big as Alibaba but Alibaba is going to start getting customers that become SaaS companies, that's technically a cloud service provider if you think about it, if they have an application, how do you look at that mark? >> We see what is known as the super seven in the industry, the large folks, both US based and China based but then we've identified the next 60-70 next wave CSPs that are growing vibrantly around the globe and there's a long tail of another 120 that we're interacting with. You're absolutely on point, an exploding area. Significant double-digit growth for years to come and just solving, big, big life and business problems. >> So at SiliconANGLE also silicon is in the name and Wikibon Research is really big in China, here, interesting dynamic that's happening here with the data and the software and was brought up with Dr. Wong about the IoTs, kind of a nuanced point but I want to get it out for the folks watching that you're going to start to see new compute at the edge because data is now the currency of the future. It needs to flow, it's like water but at the edge it can be expensive, low latency that table stakes that everyone wants to get to. You're going to see a lot more compute or silicon at the edge of network. Internet of things coming, your view on that? >> There's no question John, that's exactly the way we see it. The time to get the data back to the long-haul data center, is very expensive and very challenging and requires an absolute redo of the network. We're moving to compute closer and closer to the data, of course, the cloud remains a vital, vital part of that but we move that compute capability closer to where the data is sensed, you can analyze it quicker, you can make faster decisions and you can implement those decisions at the edge. >> CJ, final question for you, obviously Alibaba, big part of their growth strategy is going outside mainland China, obviously doing very well here, not to knock them there but great opportunity to go into the global marketplace, specifically North America. That's going to put more competition, competition was good but it's also going to require more growth. How are you helping Alibaba and how does your relationship at Intel expand with Alibaba? >> We work with Alibaba, not only on the technical front of course but on their go-to-market plans, on ecosystem development plans and even some business models. We do that across our entire customer and partner base, John. We're seeing this explosive growth in cloud and being able to work with our partners on all four of those fronts; technology development, ecosystem development, business model development, are obviously a benefit to both of us. >> Alibaba is going to need some help because you know its competitive, Amazon had a nice run for a while, Microsoft nibbling at the heels, Google and now Alibaba coming in. Competition is good. >> We're proud to call all those innovators our customers and we work hard everyday to earn their business. >> Final, final question, this one just popped in my head. What should folks in America know about this PRC market or China market that they may not know about? Obviously they read what they read in the paper. They see the security hacks, they see the crypto-currency temporarily on hold but blockchain certainly has a lot of promise, but it's a dynamic market here. A lot of of opportunities. What should that audience know about the China market? >> I think the first thing they should know is that if they haven't come to experience it themselves they should. The scale of the opportunity, the scale of the country is like nothing people have ever seen before. As I said, the investments they're making-to innovate, to drive an innovation economy is breakthrough. You take that scale and that investment and this is a market to be reckoned with. >> Congratulations on the 12 year run with Alibaba, and now Alibaba Cloud. Looking really, really, strong, love the culture, got to unique twist; artistry and scientific cultures coming together, looking good. >> Absolutely John, thanks for letting us tell our story. >> CJ Bruno, Group Vice President, General Manager Global Accounts for Intel. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE, thanks for watching.