>> Narrator: Live. From Atlanta Georgia. It's theCUBE. Covering, Citrix Synergy, Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by Citrix. >> Hey, Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend and we're comin' to you Live from Atlanta, Georgia. The Showfloor from Citrix Synergy 2019. We're excited to welcome to theCUBE for the first time Simon Bray. Principle and Head of Leadership and Culture at Vega Factor. Simon, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks very much. Great to be here. >> So, I was doing some stalkin' of you online as I do for every guest. >> Simon: Thank you. >> Yup. And I read you're a culture Agent based in New York City. >> Simon: Yes. >> Then you come on set and I'm like , you're not originally from New York City. >> Simon: That is correct. >> You're a transplant and you hail from Brooklyn. >> Simon: Yes, I do. >> Which is where my mom Cathy Dally is from. >> Simon: Very nice, very nice. >> She will love you automatically because you live in Brooklyn. >> Keith: (laughter) >> I consider myself to be a New Yorker. I moved to New York in early 2006. So 14 years, and I think I can make that claim. Although, I am originally form London. >> I would say so. Although your accent is still identifiable. >> Simon: I keep-- I try to keep the accent. >> I mistaked it for a Texas accent, so that's--. >> Texas? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Got confused? Oh there you go. >> I get that a lot. >> I bet. Yeah. Well, regardless of that you're a Culture Agent. >> Simon: Yes. >> What is that? >> Simon: Okay. >> Because we talk about Cultural Transformation and Corporate Cultures and how employee experience is essential. But Culture Agent, I just thought that was very interesting. >> Yes, so my job is to help organizations create great cultures. Essentially, our theory at Vega Factor is that to create a great culture-- First of all you need to make sure that you build an adaptive organization. So one that is able to change, is able to flex is able to innovate. So that's kind of part one. So my role is really to help organizations become more adaptive. The way that I do that is by trying to -- create an operating model in an organization that is highly motivating. We've developed a way of measuring motivation. We call it TOMO. Where, essentially you look at trying to create a system which drives up the Play, Purpose and Potential the individuals feel. Play is enjoying the work. Purpose is when people feel like they're makin' a difference. And Potential, is when people feel like they're developing and growing. And minimizing the emotional pressure, economic pressure and inertia people feel. So were tyin' to design an operating model that drives that up in order to help people become more adaptive. So my work is to work with leaders and organizations all over the place to help them apply the science of that approach to become more adaptive. >> Lisa: That's awesome. So I've heard of FOMO. >> Okay. >> Fear of missing out. Which I imagine -- everybody that's not here at Citrix Synergy has FOMO. >> Well, of course. It's incredible. >> I know JOMO, I don't have that right now goin' on. >> (giggles). >> TOMO. >> Yes. >> Total, motivation? >> Total motivation. Yeah, so we were asking ourselves the question how do you get people to turn up and do their best work? You know, how do you get people to be motivated not just to do what it says on their job description. To actually lean into their role. To be constantly thinking about how to improve it. About how to innovate, about to problem solve. About how to collaborate. When times are tough. And really what it boiled down to is really simple insight. Which is why we work, determines how well we work. So we started lookin' at the psychology behind motivation. That's where we developed this frame work we call TOMO or total motivation. Which is where we're lookin' at trying to get people to turn up and be excited for themselves. Versus doing things because they're being pressured to do it by external forces. >> Keith: So a lot-- a lot of great conversation on stage this mornin' talking about employee experience, employee's not getting disenfranchised or feelin' unmotivated about their jobs. What are some of the largest factors you see, did what Citrix shared this morning correlate with what you're seeing when you're talkin' to clients? >> Simon: 100%, Yeah. I think what was interesting this morning was the focus on not just the technology but the peoples side of things. And making sure that there's a close partnership between people and technology. And really seeing that through the lens of the overall employee experience. The way that we see the employee experience is everything that affects somebody's motivation in an organization is part of the employee experience. So, everything from the way that you frame up your purpose and identity as an organization. To the way that you organize yourselves and design roles and teams. To the way that you work together as a team. To the way that you set up governance, planning, the talent and performance systems. All of these things can be designed poorly. And therefore create disengagement and lack of motivation. They can also be designed really well. To drive that play, purpose and potential that I talked about earlier on. And as I said before, our work is all about helping organizations design the system within which people work to maximize TOMO. And that's our answer to some of the issues that were raised this morning about employees being disengaged. Our view is that that's just not good enough. You need to make sure that you're really focusing on how to make sure that people turn up and do their best work. And then the technology side of it is making sure that they're equipped with the tools, of course, that they need to do that. >> So, where do you start when organizations come to you in the Vega Factor and say, Hey guys, whether it's a younger organization that I would think on one hand might have an advantage being younger, maybe less kind of cultural biases built in. Versus an organization that might be a competitor with Citrix. Who's been around for decades and has a very, probably I don't want to say static culture. But probably a lot of cultural elements really locked in. What's the starting point? For that fresher organization versus a legacy organization? Are there any overlaps with where you guys recommend, all right this where we got to go. >> Yeah, I think the same overall framework applies. But just in a slightly different way. So, the way we start our conversations often is by defining performance as being, having two parts. The first part of performance is tactical performance. Which is all about strategy, planning and execution. And doing that as efficiently as possible. So tactical performance is really important. And then there's also the adaptive performance. Adaptive performance is how effectively can you diverge from the plan. Reacting to context changes, innovating, problem solving, solving issues. And those two types of performance are both important but they're opposing. So if you have too much tactical performance, you end up being very rigid. And it kills your ability to be adaptive. If you have too much adaptive performance you end up reinventing things all of the time and having no tactical performance and being a bit chaotic. I share that because when we look at two different types of company. Call it a legacy organization and a high growth start up. We often find that that high growth start ups have too much adaptive performance and that eats their ability to be tactical performance. People go crazy, because they're reinventing themselves all the time. And they haven't got the processes and systems so a lot of times with those organizations it's all about getting clear, on some of the basics. What are the guard rails within which we operate. What is our purpose, and identity? How do we want to organize? So that's all about helping a highly adaptive organization improve their tactical performance. Then the other side of it is a legacy organization. You know, think of any big mega organization. Where, actually as they've grown they've shifted from being really adaptive into being really tactical. They put in place processes and policies and structures, to help them manage their scale. The issue is, is that in doing that they can often lose their ability to be adaptive, By becoming bureaucratic. So, with those organizations a lot of our work is how can you, without losing that tactical performance create the space, and autonomy for teams to be able to be adaptive at the same time? So that's kind of where we come. Same framework, but actually a start point that's really quite different. >> So, let's talk about scale. Small organizations, start ups, I can see how that approach can be very deliberate. You can, spend a percentage of your time building culture. Let's talk about the big battle ships. When your goin' into a large organization. How does a large organization where it's very difficult to impact change and culture change. How do large organization's tackle this challenge? >> That's a great question. You're right, it is much harder to work within a big organization to affect change. I think the way that we would typically approach it is first of all, not to try to change a big organization at the same time. You know, it's hard to change the behavior of a thousands of people quickly. And so what we try to do is to start by taking a small part of the organization. To actually, show using that organization what good looks like. To, and then build from that. So, show the rest of the organization how this can work, how you can manage both tactical and adaptive performance. How you can create a high TOMO way of working. Then we find, that people gradually follow on from there. What's really important about that is, one you're not trying to boil the ocean. But secondly, you're showing people what good looks like and you're giving them the opportunity to opt in. And I found that when people opt into change and they start pulling for it that's a much better way to affect change versus operate in a situation where change is something that's done to people. Where people are told what to do. >> Lisa: It's being pushed on them. >> Yeah exactly. >> Lisa: Right, naturally, you're going to get resistance there. >> Yeah. For sure. >> Some of the stats that we heard this morning and Keith and I are both living this. I think I heard, maybe it was within the last week that by 2020, which is literally around the corner that 50% of the work force is going to be remote. >> Simon: Yeah. >> And I think they were saying this morning that in the next few years there's going to be 65 billion connected devices. With each person having about eight different connected devices. Keith and I are here with out different devices. Where do you see, the necessity of delivering mobile experiences. But also, for cultural impact for businesses, small or large to enable workers to be remote and give them access? Rather than forcing that they sit on a train for an hour, or in the car, and be in the office. Where is that conversation in the Vega platform? >> Yeah, it's an interesting one. So, one of the things that we spend quite a lot of time doing, is working with individual teams to help them operate more as a team. One of the things I found quite surprising in my work with different types of organizations is that often teams are connected by a common manager, but essentially are a collection of individual contributors who aren't actually working on shared issues. So, one of the first things that we like to do is to help teams re-orient themselves around the shared purpose. And, set themselves challenges for things that they want to solve together to improve their collective performance. So that's a foundational piece. Once we've done that, then the next question becomes, to answer your question, how do you get teams to problem solve together effectively. And there's two different times when teams problem solve. One is what we would call synchronously. Synchronicity is where teams need to get together physically, and actually brain storm and kick around a problem. And there is a time and a place to do that. That's why its still important to have get-togethers and to create that human connection. But actually more and more we find that teams need to also be able to solve problems in parallel asynchronously. And I think that's where technology comes in. Technology allows teams to work together on problems but not all be in the same place at the same time. To be able to do that in parallel and whenever they want to. It's when you get that asynchronous problem solving and synchronous problem solving that you can get teams to generally work together and that way we find people perform at a much higher level than if they're essentially just focusing on the job that they have. >> So obviously, you work across industries, groups and type of functions. Can you share with us some correlation between TOMO, the rise in kind of this-- employee experience measure and performance? Like, what are some of the key indicators that culture is improving performance? >> That's a great question as well. So, one of the things that we spend a lot of time doing in our early research is trying to quantify culture. Because you know, most of us would agree that culture is important but it becomes something that can easily get shunted down the list. Or seen as a nice to have (mumbles) especially if times are tough. So we spend a lot of time trying to measure culture and then to be able to to show a correlation between that measure and the performance of a business. So, the first thing that we did is say well how do you measure culture? And our way of measuring culture is the degree to which people are motivated. So this comes back to TOMO. The way that we calculate TOMO is by adding up the play, purpose and potential that somebody feels. And subtracting the emotional pressure, economic pressure and inertia they feel. And these are weighted according to their proximity to the work. And they end up giving us a nice neat score between minus 100 and positive 100. Like a net promoters score. We get that number by asking them six multiple choice questions. So it's two or three minutes. That gives us an individual score but also of course, we can measure that organizationally. We then looked at the correlation between that score and the performances of business across a range of different industries. And we show a straight line correlation between TOMO and business performance. So as an example, we looked at the airline industry. And we looked at the TOMO of most of the U.S airlines. And we found that the highest TOMO airline -- Can you guess what the highest TOMO airline is? >> Lisa: JetBlue? Southwest? >> Southwest. >> Keith: I was going to say SouthWest. >> JetBlue is second. So we found that when you walk on a Southwest or JetBlue airplane you feel great. It feels different. Because the employees, the flight crew, turn up in a different way. That's because their TOMO is higher. And as a result the performance of Southwest particularly around elements like Customer Experience, Customer Satisfaction is significantly higher than the rest. The lowest TOMO airline in our data set is United. Now-- >> Lisa: I was going to guess that. >> Keith: (laughter) >> Now, if you think of TOMO low TOMO tends to be when people either have low play, purpose and potential. They're not enjoying their job they don't feel like their makin' a difference or they're not learning. Or the system they're in is very high pressured. High emotional pressure, economic pressure. That creates a lower business performance. It can also have a negative effects from a behavioral point of view. As an example, if you saw the story a couple of years ago where United had a big scandal where someone was pulled, man-handled off one of their planes. That's a predictable affect of low TOMO. Our data, our research was done two years before that happened. And we would've been able to predict that United would have issues based upon their low TOMO score. To try to explain, and I wasn't there of course. But to try to explain what happened through the lens of TOMO. If you create a very high pressure system where the ground staff, are being essentially measured on their ability to get the plane to take off on time. When a passenger sits, and refuses to move, because of the pressure the ground crew are under they forget what the right thing to do is. Because of their low TOMO and pressure they ended up man-handling the passenger off. United lost a billion dollars in their share price. And that's a predictable, what we call a cobra affects. Which, is where people kind of feel like they have to cheat or short cut the system, that we are predicting is a result of low TOMO. >> So, we're almost out of time here but I'm so curious, how do you -- what the incentives are, for United airlines to really look at that kind of experience that goes viral on social media and these things happen, I don't want to say all the time. But that was not an isolated incident. >> Simon: Absolutely not. >> So for a company like that that's making money hand over fist flights are always sold out. They're not hurting for business. What incentivizes a business like that to flip that TOMO scale? >> Yeah, it's a great question. I think it's really difficult to make any kind of change happen when you're doing okay. First of all. And that's difficult. But the reality is is that, if you had measured the TOMO of United, and there are many other examples I am not just trying to pick on them. You would've been able to guess that this would happen. And so, our advise to organizations is regardless of how successful you are regardless of how well your business results are in the short term. You need to be thinking long term about culture. You need to be thinking about what is the operating system that you're putting your employees into. And getting ahead of what could be consequences that happen down the stream as a result of well intended moves that you make now to improve your tactical performance. >> Awesome, Simon. This has been so interesting. I learned a new acronym >> Together: TOMO. >> It's some great stuff. >> Lisa: I want to have TOMO everyday, and I'm going to really work on that. Being on theCUBE it's not hard to achieve that. >> Simon: This is great. >> Well Simon, we, Keith and I so appreciate you comin' by and sharing what you guys are doin' at Vega. And really, really interesting. TOMO. >> Thank you very much. Thanks guys. >> Lisa: Our pleasure. For Keith Townsend, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE Live on the show floor of Citrix Synergy 2019, from Atlanta Georgia. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE, covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019 brought to you by Citrix. >> Hi, Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend, coming to you live from day one of our coverage of Citrix Synergy in Atlanta, Georgia. We're very pleased to welcome Citrix's Chief People Officer, Donna Kimmel, EVP-- >> Yeah. >> And Chief People Officer. Thank you so much for joining Keith and me this afternoon. >> My pleasure. It's great to be here, Lisa and Keith. Thank you. >> I was telling you before we went live, Donna, this has been a great event. This is our first day of coverage, but the keynote really kicked things off very, in a way that's so relatable, just showing workforce, and some of the stats you guys gave were staggering. The fact that power users are who enterprise software is designed for. But that's 1% of the users. >> Donna: Exactly. >> Or things like $7 trillion is wasted a year, and Keith's brought this up on a number of our interviews, of wasted productivity. There's a huge need for employee experience to become a C-level business imperative. >> Donna: Yeah. >> Talk to us about that from Citrix's point of view. >> Absolutely. Employee experience is incredibly important. When I think about the concept, it is really about people and technology together. And we can't do great things in the workplace if we don't have the right tools at our fingertips, and technology really supports that. But employee experience is also very broad. It's all encompassing. When we think about employee experience, it's everything from when somebody starts or applies to a company, what kind of experience are they having with that company? What is their interview process like? What is their pre-hire process like? What happens when they come for their onboarding? Are they experiencing the company the way that they should, and then it's about their career journey. So employee experience is incredibly important, and it's incredibly pervasive. But I think it also starts with understanding why it matters to companies. And I think when you look at why it matters to companies, companies can't be successful without people. It's people that are the one's that are driving results. It's people that are the ones that are collaborating and bringing the culture of that company to life, and it's people that are driving new product design and thinking about what customers need and putting customers first. And companies are successful because of the people within it, so we need to create experiences that make a difference. >> So as we talk about those experiences, when I think of Citrix, I think of Citrix in a traditional sense. You front end a work day. You front end HRM from SAP, those solutions. So as Citrix starts to engage more with HR directly, talk me about that value conversation Citrix is having with HR and how Citrix adds value versus a company that's specific focus is in creating HR software. >> Exactly. So we're creating software that enables employees and people in an organization, talent in an organization, to be successful to do their best work on a daily basis. So though we are not creating HR software per se, what we are creating is employee experience, and it's employee experience through the technology. So when employees have the right tools at their fingertips in a way that cuts out the continual searching, as one of the things that we talked about this morning in the keynote, was all about how much time is wasted. At least 25% of an employee's time is wasted searching or context switching between applications, not being able to use the applications to their fullest. And we recognize there's a fair amount that employees need to do that are very task-oriented. And if you can automate those and bring them to the employee in a very intelligent way, using the analytics. You also heard about that this morning as well. The analytics get to know the employee. So it's more personal. So you get what you need to at your fingertips, you can do it more quickly, more easily, and then really focus on some of the more critical things that are going to help you be successful as an employee. >> You bring up the personal aspect, and I think personalization is becoming more and more a critical element of... because as consumers we expect that. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So we're starting to see the influences of the consumerization of IT, and it really is something that can be a big differentiator to attract talent and retain talent-- >> Yeah. >> Which is also a business imperative. I'm glad, though, that you brought up, hey, employee experience isn't just, okay, this intelligent experience, and I can have access to all my apps. It starts with the hiring process. >> Absolutely. >> The interviewing, the recruiting. We were talking about our different onboarding experiences, Keith and I were at lunch and how that really can set the tone-- >> Donna: Exactly. >> Of an employee with their employer, and you're right. It's not just about the technology needs to be an enabler, but it's got to start from even the recruitment. >> Exactly. >> When I step back, and I think about employee experience, it brings me back to the concepts that we've been talking about for a while now regarding the future of work. It's really about a company having the right culture, creating the right physical space and digital space, and then also, the technology that's used. And again, culture can be a real differentiator for an organization, just like we know that the talent is a differentiator for companies. But when you think about the culture, it really speaks to what's important to human beings, what's important to employees? Are they socially involved? Is their product meaningful? Is what their doing meaningful to the community, to the customers that they're serving? So are we tapping into what's meaningful to people? Are employees being given opportunities for flexibility and collaboration? Are they being given opportunities for choice? And that also brings me back to what you were talking about in terms of personalization. If we think about the workforce, right now, at least at Citrix, we have about five different generations in our workforce. And you might be able to look across all those different generations and look for trends and different ways that generations might work, but the reality is it's about the individual. It's truly about understanding that individual's choice for working anywhere, anyhow, anyway, on any device. That's what's really going to drive a difference. That becomes part of the culture. If you have the right, again, grounded values, you have the right environment that you're creating, that is part of the appeal to employees. And then you try to create the right space, and you want to create the right physical space because when employees are in the workforce, and when they come into the office, you want it to feel like a place where they can collaborate, where they can change and move, and move into private space if they need it, or quiet space if they need it, or opportunities for, as we say, collisions at the coffee machine where all of a sudden new ideas come out because you're generating thoughts and conversation. So space, physical space, and all of that movement also mimics our personal worlds, right? We get up and we move around to different kind of spaces throughout the day. We want our workspace to feel the same way. And then the other piece to that is technology. And are we creating the right technological tools that enable employees to have that freedom and that choice around the kinds of devices they're using and the spaces where they're working in to really be able to bring their best selves to the workplace and contribute because ultimately, we want to be part of successful organizations. So it's a combination of all of those for me in terms of the question that you were just asking. >> So you're a EVP of a nice size software company. And some of these things you've had to put into practice. Citrix is a 30-year-old company. I think I'm aging myself because I've done a few Citrix deployments early in my own career. >> Yeah. >> As you start to pivot, you're part of these executive-level conversations saying, "We're going to invest in AI, machine learning," and you look at this job market for AI, ML data scientists, it's a tight market. It's really hard to attract the talent. While Florida is lovely, it may not be the place for ML or AI talent, but more specifically, this type of talent might be spread across the world. >> Donna: That's right. >> What types of changes have you had to oversee inside of Citrix to attract and retain that talent? >> Absolutely. I think it's a great point because I think not only are we at Citrix doing it, but many other companies are looking at the same kind of question, which is where do we find the best talent, and how do we enable that talent anywhere around the world to successfully contribute to our company? And because it is so challenging to find talent, we do need to be more flexible as organizations. We need to look at distributed office locations. We need to look at opportunities for people to be able to work from their homes. We look at a total labor force, like gig workers, in addition to contractors and employee base. So our technology enables that. And I think that's one of the great selling points of having people join Citrix is you are part of the movement of helping organizations be flexible. You're part of helping to drive that kind of employee experience so you can hire anyone from anywhere around the world in order to help you achieve the business results that you're looking for. >> In the four years that you've been EVP and Chief People Officer, how have you helped this culture to evolve? As Keith mentioned, this is a 30-year-young company, and cultural change is challenging, again, but we think about it in our personal lives, change is hard. >> Donna: Yeah. >> What are some of the key strategies that you've employed to help facilitate that cultural change? >> It's a great question. When I joined about three and a half years ago, we were embarking on a transformation at the company and part of that transformation was taking a look at where we needed to evolve from a product strategy perspective and from meeting our customer needs in a very different way. And the more we got out there and listened to our customers, it helped solidify what we needed to do from a strategy perspective. What we also realized is you'll never be able to accomplish your strategy without the right people. And you need the right culture and the right set of values that are going to underpin everything you do as a company. So we took some very strong values that were already part of Citrix and kind of modernized them, brought them into words that had meaning for our employees. So we did quite a few feedback sessions, surveys, and things, and gathered. And we really focus, from a strong values perspective, on integrity, respect, curiosity, courage, and unity. And those words have incredible meaning for us in terms of what we're doing to not only transform the products and the markets that we're in, but how do we transform our own workplace to continue to drive an employee experience that lives out those values and that culture? So it underpins everything that we do. >> So let's talk about lessons that can be applied from Citrix, a big company, to smaller companies, because Citrix has customers across the spectrum from the small shop with less than 10 people, to companies with tens of thousands of people. Is employee experience something that only large companies should consider, or is this something that as entrepreneurs like myself only have a couple of employees, should I be thinking about employee experience in a specific way? >> Yeah, that's a great question. When I think about, again, why employee experience is so important, I think, first, it's because it's about people and it's about humanity, and why it matters to any business regardless of your size, is that it's about people first, and people first are going to help any business be able to achieve its goals and its results. The technology that we're creating also is what we call general purpose. It is for individuals to enable individuals to be successful in their workplace. So I do believe strongly it is for any size organization. And the principles ring true, whether you're a small business or whether you're a large business. I know my sister also has a small business, and the team members that work with her, very small business, the team members that work with her need to feel that same vibrancy of what she's trying to create for her clients. And so I think it's the same for any size business. Culture, values, grounding, experience that you can create to enable those employees to feel like they're part of what you're doing and they're part of your success. >> We talked with Simon Bray earlier, and I learned a new acronym, TOMO. >> Yeah. >> I love that. >> Yeah, it's great. >> Total Motivation. >> Exactly. >> How do you measure cultural transformation within Citrix? What are some of those key, is there an internal NPS survey, or other things that you guys do to go, we're going in the right direction here? >> We do, absolutely. It's no doubt challenging to measure. We do an employee net promoter score, and we do an engagement score. So the net promoter score that we do on a quarterly basis, and our full engagement survey, we do on an annual basis. And since we started our transformation, three and a half years ago, our net promoter score has gone up dramatically. And we are nearing the 50% mark, which is very high for employee net promoter scores. So we feel really proud about the constant movement in the right direction around that score, and the same thing with our engagement scores. And we've become certified two years in a row through Great Places To Work. So again, that movement in the right direction is telling us that our employees do feel connected to who we are, what we're doing, and that they feel part of driving those solutions and those results. >> So I was looking at some of the Citrix revenue numbers over the weekend. Looks like a lot of things are up. Subscription revenues, SAS revenue, workspace revenue, and employee satisfaction is up as well. >> Absolutely, and we're proud of all of it. We talk in a very positive way. David, our CEO, always talks about up and to the right. And we are, all of our measures have been up and to the right on a consistent basis, from an employee perspective and from a business results perspective. And it takes every single employee to be able to do that. >> What are you most excited about as we wrap up here. I know we're so early in Synergy 2019, but like I was saying, we've had such an exciting start to our time here. What are you excited about when this is all done in terms of feedback that you're hoping and expecting to hear from the employees? >> I think probably one of the most exciting things for me is to be in the field that I'm in, Human Resources, focusing on people, and focusing on talent, and recognizing that the product that we are putting out there is making a difference from an employee experience perspective. So being part of that vision, that mission I think is incredibly exciting. So we can live it internally as well as help our customers live it within their own environment. And that connection, I think, is incredibly powerful and really meaningful to be a part of. >> It can be such a differentiator as well if your customers see, ah, there's a Citrix on Citrix story. >> Donna: Absolutely. >> And you're transforming using your own technology, that's one of the best brand validations that you can get, right? >> Absolutely, it helps us tell the story with our customers, and it's a great selling point for new employees that are attracted to coming to work for us, become part of the movement and the change of really driving employee experience and driving that partnership through technology. >> Donna, it's been so great to have you on theCUBE with Keith and me-- >> Thank you. >> Helping to expand, at least my perspective of employee experience. >> Lisa: Thank you so much. >> Thank you, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. >> Lisa: Oh, likewise. For Keith Townsend, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from our day one coverage, Citrix Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)