>> Narrator: You are Cube Alumni. Live from Silicon Valley, it's the Cube. Covering Google Cloud Next 17. >> Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of Google Next 2017. Having a lot of conversations as to how enterprises are really grappling with cloud. You know, move from on premises to public cloud, multi-cloud, hybrid-cloud, all those pieces in between. Happy to welcome to the program a first time guest, Paul Scott-Murphy who's the vice president of product management at WANdisco, thanks so much for joining us. >> Yeah, thanks very much, it's great to be here and join your program. >> Alright, so you know, Paul, I think a lot of our audience probably is familiar with WANdisco, we've had many of your executives on, really dug into your environment for the last few years, usually see you guys a lot of not only the big data shows, we've got Strata coming up next week, last time I did an interview with you guys was at AWS re:Invent. So you know, WAN, replication, data, all those things put together, you've got a big bucket of big data in cloud. Tell us a little bit about kind of your background, your role at the company. >> Okay. So I've been at WANdisco now for about two and a half years. I previously worked for TIBCO Software for a decade. Working out of Asia-Pacific, held the CTO role there for APJ. And joined WANdisco two and half years ago, just as we were entering into the big data market with our replication capabilities. I now run product management for the company and work out of our headquarters here in the Bay area. >> Stu Miniman: Great. And connect with us you know, what you guys are doing at Google, what's the conversations you're having with customers that are attending. >> Yeah, so Google is definitely one of the key strategic partners for WANdisco, obviously particularly in the Cloud space for us. We're hosting a booth fair for the conference and using that as an opportunity to speak to other vendors and the customers that we have attending the Google conference. Particularly around what we're doing for replication between on premises and cloud environments, and how we support Google Cloud. Dataproc, and Google Cloud Storage as well. >> Can you help unpack for us a little bit, where are your customers, give us a tip of the customers, you know they're saying hey, I want to start using this cloud stuff, how are they figuring out what applications stay on premises, what goes to the public cloud, and that data piece is a challenging thing, moving data is not easy, there's a whole data gravity piece that fits into it, maybe you can help walk us through some of the scenarios. >> Yeah, as we're progressing the technology, we're certainly finding a broader and broader range of customers getting interested in what they can do around data replication. The sorts of organizations that we deal with primarily are those who are looking to leverage both on premises and cloud infrastructure. All those who are moving from a situation where they've been toying with these environments and moving into production-ready scenarios where the demands or enterprise level SLAs or availability, or the needs around disaster recovery, backup and migration use cases become a lot more dominant for them. The organizations that we work with typically they are larger organizations, we deal a lot with retail, with financial services, telecommunications, with research institutions as well. All of whom have larger needs around taking advantage of cloud infrastructure. Of course they all share the same challenge of the availability of their data, where it's sourced from, isn't always necessarily in the cloud, taking advantage of cloud infrastructure then requires them to think about how they make their information available both to their on premises systems and to the cloud environment where they can run perhaps larger analytic workloads against it, or use the cloud services that they would otherwise not have access to. >> One of the challenges we've seen is when we've got kind of that hybrid or multi-cloud environment, you know, manages my data, kind of the holes, you know, orchestrating pieces and getting my arms around how I take care of it and leverage it can be challenging. Is that something you guys help with or are there other partners that get involved, how are customers helping to sort out and mature these environments? >> Yeah it's a big question of course, you've touched on the management of data as a whole and what they means, and how organizations handle that. WANdisco's role in supporting organizations with those challenges is in ensuring that when they need to take advantage of more than one environment or when they need their data to be available in more than one place. They can do that seamlessly and easily. What we aport to do and what we encourage our customers to do with our technology is rather than keeping one copy of data on premises and using it solely there, or copying your data to another location in order that you can act upon it there, we treat those environments as the same and say well, have the best of both worlds. Have your data available in each location, let your applications use it at the local speed and do that without regard to the need for retaining a workflow by which you exchange data between environments. WANdisco's technology can take care of all of that, and to do so it has to do some very smart things under the covers, around consistency and making it work across wide-area networks. Makes it particularly suited to cloud environments where we can leverage those underlying capabilities in conjunction with the scale of the cloud which is a native home for data at scale. >> Can you give us some, you know, where do you see customers kind of in this maturation, Dan Green made a statement that today 5% of the data is in the public cloud, so what are some of those barriers that are stopping people from getting more data in the Cloud, is it something that we will just see a massive adoption of data in the cloud, or what's your guys viewpoint as to where data's going to live, how that movement is happening. >> Yeah, I think longer term the economic advantages of using cloud environments are undeniable. The cost advantages of hosting information in the cloud and the benefits that come from the scalability of those environments is certainly far surpassing the capabilities that organizations can invest in themselves through their own data centers. So that natural migration of data to the cloud is a common theme that we see across all sorts of organizations. But as many people say, data has gravity, and if the majority of your application information resides today in your own environments or in environments outside of the cloud, whether that's internet connected devices, or in points of ingest that reside outside of cloud environments, there's a natural tendency for data to remain in place where they're either ingested or created. What you need to do to better take advantage of cloud environments then is the ability to easily access that data from cloud infrastructure. So the sorts of organizations that are looking to that are those with either burgeoning problems around consuming data at multiple points. They might operate environments that span multiple contents. They might have jurisdictional restrictions around where their data can reside but need to control its flow between separate environments as well. So WANdisco can certainly help with all of those problems, the underlying replication technology that we bring to bear is very well suited to it. But we are a part of the overall solution. We're not the full answer to everything. We certainly deal very well with replication and we believe we cover that very well. >> I'm curious when you talk about kind of the dispersion of data and where it's being created, of course edge-use cases for things like IOT, are quite a hot topic at that point. Is that something you guys are touching on yet, gets involved in discussions, you know, where does that sit? >> Yeah, definitely. The interesting thing about WANdisco's approach to data replication is that we base it on this foundation of consistency. And using a mathematically proven approach to distributed consensus to guarantee that changes made in one environment are represented in others equally, regardless of where those changes occur. Now when you apply that to batch based data storage or streaming environments, or other forms of ingest is relatively irrelevant as long as you have that same underlying capability to guarantee consistency regardless of where changes occur. If you're talking about high IT environments where you naturally have infrastructure sitting outside of the cloud, and this is the type of infrastructure that needs to reside out of the cloud, right, your edge points where data are captured, where your consuming information are generating it from devices perhaps from an automotive vehicle or from an embedded device, some sort of sensor array, whatever that happens to be, these are the types of environments where it means you're generating data outside of the cloud. So if you're looking to use that inside of the cloud itself, you need some way of moving data around, and you need to do that with some degree of consistency between those environments to make sure you're not just challenged with extra copies of information. >> The other really interesting topic around data that's being discussed at the Google Cloud event is artificial intelligence, machine learning, I'm curious, are your customers involved in that, where do you see that kind of on the radar today? >> Yeah, it's obviously an absolutely critical part of where the IT industry in general is going, and the type of solution that's fed off data. These systems are better as your data set grows. The more information you have, the better they work, and the more capable they become. It's certainly an aspect of how well machine learning technique and artificial intelligence approaches have been adopted in the industry, and the rapid rate of change in that side of IT is driving a lot of the demand for increasing access to data sets. We see some of our customers using that for really interesting things. You might've seen some of the recent news around our involvement in a research project led through the University of Sheffield, looking to use data sets captured from a variety of research institutions and medical environments to solve the problem of identifying and responding to dementia. And it's a great outcome from that type of environment. Through which machine learning techniques are being applied across data sets. What you find though is that because there's a large set of institutions sharing access to data, no single data set is sufficient to support those outcomes, regardless of what intelligence you can place against the machine learning models that you build up. So by enabling the ability to bring those data sets together, have them available in a single location, being the cloud, where larger models can be assessed against the data sets means much better outcomes for those types of environments. >> Okay. Paul, in your role of product management, we've been through some of the hot buzz terms out there, how do you help the company identify those trends, focused on the ones that are important to your customers and the kind of feedback loops that you get from them. >> I guess a lot of work in the end is how we do it but we need to listen to customers directly of course, understand what they're looking to do with their information systems. What they're aiming for. Their goals at a business level, what type of value that they want to get out of their data, and how they're approaching that. That's really critical. We also need to look to the industry in general. We're obviously in a very rapidly changing environment where technologies, the organizations that build IT systems, are increasingly adopting new approaches and building systems that simply weren't available days ago. You look at the announcements from Google of late around their video intelligence APIs as a service, their image APIs as well, all new capabilities that organizations today now have access to. So bringing those things together, understanding where the general IT trends are, how that applies to our customers, and what WANdisco can do with the unique value that we bring is really key to the product management role. >> Alright, and Paul, you've been at the show, curious, any cool things you saw, interesting customer conversations that may want to give our audience a flavor of what's going on, why 10 thousand people are excited to be at the event. >> Yeah well it is a very exciting event, just the scale of these types of events run by Google and similar organizations is something in itself to behold. We're really excited to be a part of that. The things that are really interesting for me out of the show tend to be where we see customers or opportunities coming to us, identifying challenges that they can't address without the type of technology that we bring to bear. Those tend to be areas where either they're looking to do migration from on premises systems into the cloud which is obviously very strong interest for Google themselves, they need to bring customers in to take better advantage of the services that they have. WANdisco can play a strong role in that. We're seeing a lot of interesting things around the edge too, so all of the ways in which data can be used are always exciting and interesting to see. The combination of technologies like artificial intelligence, like virtual reality, the type of work that WANdisco does also, is certainly going to bring forward I think a new wave of applications and systems that we just hadn't considered even a few years ago. >> Yeah. Lots of really interesting things. There's personal assistants at home and personal assistants that are listening. Okay Google, subscribe to SiliconANGLE on Youtube. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from the Cube, talking about Google Next 2017. 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>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP Discover Virtual experience Brought to you by HP >>Hi, welcome to the Cube's coverage of HP Discover 2020 Virtual experience. I'm Lisa Martin, and I'm pleased to welcome from scale any one of our long Time Cube alumni. We have, all specially the chief product officer at agility. Hey, Paul, welcome back to the Cube. >>Hi, Lisa. It's been a long time, and it's just wonderful to be back. Thank you. >>This is our new virtual cube that appear where everybody is very socially distant but socially connected. So since it's been a while since we've had you on and your peers from stability tell us a little bit about scale and then we'll dive into what you're doing with HP, >>Okay? Absolutely. Let me give you kind of a pop down recap of where we're at. So interestingly, we're now it 10 year old company. We actually celebrated our never anniversary last year. Um, we still have our flagship product, the Ring, which we launched originally in 2000 and 10 that is distributed file and object storage software. But about three years ago, we added a second product called Zenko, which is for multi cloud data management. We do continue to invest in the ring a lot, both on the file side and the object side. The current release now is Ring eight. The target market for this is pretty broad, but we really focus on financial services institutions. That's a big base for us. We have something like half of the world's banks, about 60% of the world service providers, a lot of government institutions. But what's been fastest growing for us now is healthcare. We have a lot of growth there in medical imaging and genomics research. And then I guess the last thing I'll add is that partners are just super important to us. We continue to certify and test with SDI Solutions. I think we have 80 of them now deployed and ready to go. But there's a real focus here now on partners like Said Era and with a Iot and Splunk VM HP East or one. So those partners are critical to our business and we just love to partner with them. >>Do you been partners with HP for quite a while? Tell me about the evolution of the partnership as you've evolved your technology. >>Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting, cause I just noted this Ah, a couple of weeks ago. The company is 10 years old. We've been partners with HP for over half of that. It's about 5.5 years. The way to think about this is that we have a worldwide OM relationship with HP for the Apollo 4000 server line. The official name for our product is HP Apollo 4000 systems with scale itty ring scalable storage. Also quite a mouthful, but very descriptive. Ah, and then we work very closely with the HP storage and big data teams. I'm very tied into the product side, talking to the product managers, but also the marketing side and very much so. On the sales side, we've had super success with them in Europe, also here in the US, and there's growing business, but also in a P J in Japan. Specifically, >>you mentioned that one of the doctors right now that's really urging a healthcare and given the fact that we are three months into a global pandemic, anything that's interesting that you want to share in terms of how skeleton is helping some of your health care customers rapidly pivot in this very unprecedented time. >>Yeah, I would say that there's a couple of very notable trends here. The 1st 1 started a few years ago. We really, honestly didn't focus so much on health care until about 2000 and 17 18. But since that time, we now have something like 40 hospital hospital systems globally using our product and notably on H P E servers. Uh, and that's to retain medical images for long term retention. These are things like digital diagnostic images. MRI's CAT scans CT scans. These hospitals are mandated to keep them for a long term right, sometimes for five years, 10 years or even page patient Lifetime. I would say the newer thing that we're seeing now just in the last year or so is genomics research. There's so much concentration now on pharmaceutical and biotechnology around genomics. That data tends to be very voluminous, you know, it can go from hundreds of terabytes and petabytes, and moreover, they need to run simulations on that to do you know, fast iteration on different drug research. We've now been applied to that problem, and a lot of times we do it with a partner or something like a fast tier one file system and then us as the archive here. But we're seeing that the popularity of that just wrote tremendously within hospitals, hospital groups and also just dedicated research for biotechnology. >>The vault. You talked about volumes there, and the volumes are growing and growing each year as his retention periods, depending on the type of data, the type of of ah, imagery, for example. But from a use case perspective, what is it that you're helping your health care customers achieve? Is it is it backup targets? Is it disaster? Recovery is speed of access All the above. >>Yeah, so where we focus in health care is really on the unstructured data. This is all the file content that they deal with, you know, in a hospital. Think about all the different medical image studies that they have, things like digital files for CAT scans and MRI's. These are becoming huge files, you know. One multi slice X ray or digital scan, for example, can be gigabytes in size and profile, and that's per patient. Now think about the number of patients and the right attention of all of that. It's a perfect use case for what we do, which is capacity optimized storage for long term retention. But we can also be used for other things. For example, backups of the electronic patient records. Those are typically stored in databases, but they need to be backed up. What we found is that we're an ideal long term backup target. So the way hospitals look at us is that they can consolidate multiple use cases, undo our ring system on HP. They can grow it over time. They could just keep adding servers, and typically what they do is they start with a single use case, what they think of as a single modality, perhaps an imaging. And then they grow over time to encompass more and more and eventually think about a comprehensive image management system within a hospital. But those are popular today. Hospitals are also starting to look at other use cases. Obviously, we mentioned genomics, but hybrid cloud is coming at them as well. >>Talk to me about that as we see growing volumes of data, different types of modalities, lots of urgent need to you, said backup data, So data protection is critical. But as as healthcare organizations move to multi cloud, how considerate Ian HP help facilitate that migration? >>Yeah, So what we've noticed is, you know, there's both a feeling that they're fast and they're slow to embrace the public clouds. But one of the things that's obvious is that from a sass perspective, software as a service, they've really embraced it. Most of the big EMR systems, the electronic medical records, are already SAS based, so they are there, and in fact they're probably already multi cloud. But on the data management side, that's where we focus. And we hear a lot of use cases that would involve taking older data from on Prem and perhaps archiving it long term in a HIPAA compliant cloud in the US, for example, for long term retention. But there are other things. For example, they may want to push some data that they've generated on Prem to a public cloud like Amazon or azure, and do some kind of computing against it. Perhaps an analytic service, some kind of image recognition or, you know, image pattern detection. Um, the 3rd 1 that we see now in hybrid cloud is their interest in having second copies of the data so that they can continue operations. Right? I think we all know that hospitals have an absolute uptime need. They need to be running 24 by seven. One of the things that's starting to happen is rather than a second physical data center. They established a second site in a public cloud on and then they stage their applications and we can help with HP. Move the data from on Prem to the public cloud to have this sort of cloud disaster recovery solution. >>So cloud here interesting topic. Do you see there that in healthcare in particular, that hospitals and healthcare organizations are getting less concerned about cloud from a security perspective and more open to it as an enabler of scale? >>I think what they've seen is that the cloud vendors have really matured in terms of providing all of the hardening that you want in terms of data, privacy and data security. You know, 10 years ago, if you looked at the cloud, you would have been extremely nervous about putting your data up there. But now all of the right principles are there in terms of multi tenancy. Ah, secure authentication based on very strong keys. Encryption of the data. One of the first healthcare customers we worked with was completely ready to do this. But then, of course, they said, the images that we store in the cloud must be infected. So we were able to work in collaboration with them, to develop encryption and actually use their own management service for encrypting those images so that our system or the HP servers don't store the keys for encryption. So I would say yes, It's a combination of the cloud's becoming super mature. Some of them are now certified and compliant for this use case on, the customers are just sort of. They passed the first step of trying it on there really to sort of go into these use cases a little bit more broadly. >>And so with that maturity of the technologies and the more the willingness on the part of the customer to try and tell me how to HP and scale a go to market together. >>Yeah, so what we do is we've really focused on specific market verticals, healthcare being one of them, but there are others. Financial services is where we've had other success with them. The way we do it is that we first start by building very specific swim lanes. In HP parlance, that helps aimed the Salesforce on where we can provide a great solution not only with Ring but perhaps with complementary software. Like I mentioned H p e store once for data protection backup. They have other partner solutions that we just love to work with. Vendors like Wicca. Iot has a wonderful fast file system that is now useful in biotech. Um, and they use a system like the ring for storing the data from their file system and the snapshots in that. But the way it's been organized is really by vertical and to go and have specialized kind of teams that understand how to sell that message. We jointly sell with them, so their teams and our teams Goto calls together. It's obviously been very virtual, but we've usually collaborated very extensively in the field working kind of air cover at the marketing level, and now one of the newer things with obviously the new way of working is lots of virtual events were not only doing a discover virtual experience, but we started doing more and more webinars, especially with HP and these other joint part >>and carries in this new virtual era where everything like, he said, This is how we're communicating now. And thankfully, we have the technology. Couple questions on that related to sales and engagement. One. What are some of the things that the sales team but the joint sales teams are hearing now from customers that might be changing requirements given the Koven situation? First >>question. Yeah, I think what one of the things we've certainly seen is that almost nothing has slowed down in these industries. I mean, we're focused on industries that seem to kind of think long term, right? I obviously healthcare. They're dealing with the current crisis as much as they can. But what we've seen is that there still planning, right, so they want to build their I T infrastructure. They're certainly thinking about how to leverage hybrid cloud. I think that's it becomes very clear that they see that as not only a way to offer new services in the future, but also to save money today. They're very interested in that right. How can they save on capital expenses and human talent is an example. I think those have been the themes for us. You know, we do have some exposure to industries that might have a little bit more, you know, sensitivity to the current climate, things like travel related services. But honestly, it's been minor. And what we're finding is that even those companies are still investing in this kind of technology, really to think about the 2 to 3 and you're being horizon and beyond. >>Have you done any any messaging, your positioning changes? I know you also in product marketing or corporate marketing that relate to customers. You know, everybody prepares for different types of disruptions or natural disasters. But now we have this invisible disruptor. Any change in your messaging, your positioning either at stability or with the partnership with HP that will help customers understand if you're not on this journey yet, why they need to be >>so, Yeah, we have looked at how we message the technology and the solution, especially in the light of the pandemic. You know, we stayed true to kind of a top level hybrid cloud data management message, but underneath the covers, what do customers care about? They care about a solution that you provide, but they also care about what they pay for it. Let's let's be honest. One of the things we've done very historically is to have a very simplified pricing model. It's based on usable protected capacity. So the user says I have a petabytes of data. That's the license fee. It's not based on how much disk they have or how many copies they want to create or how many sites they want to spread it across. So one of the things we want to do is make that a little bit more clear. Eso that's come out a bit more in our messaging in recent months. The second is that what we feel is that customers really want to know us as a company. They want to feel assured that were here, that will support them in all cases and that were available at all times. And what that's translated into is a more of a customer community focus. We are very much carrying about, you know, our customers. We see them invest in our systems today, but they also continue to expand. So we're doing things like new community portals where they can engage us in discourse. They can ask questions live. We're online. We have a lot of tips and knowledge available for them. So I would say that those are the two changes that we put in our messaging, both on pricing and on a community involved >>and where community involvement is concerned. It's even more critical now because we can't get together face to face and have conversations or meetings or conferences as chief product officer. Imagine that was a lot of what you were doing before. Tell me what it is from your perspective to engage with the community, to engage with sales and your partners during this TBD timeframe of we don't know when we're going to get back together. What do you find? It works really well for continuing continuing that engagement. >>Yeah, I think the keyword for me has just been transparency. You know, customers have always bonded to know, really, what's what's going on behind the scenes. How does the tech work? Right? What's the architecture? And I think now what we're seeing is there sort of a ramp up on that. For example, what's very important for community is for people to know what's coming right? They want to know the roadmaps. They want to be alerted to new things that are not only the next quarter, but in the next year. Right? So I think that's our focus here is to make this community a place where people can learn absolutely everything so that they can plan not only for the next year, but like we said there, they're thinking three years and beyond. So we're going to do our best to be totally transparent and be expressed as we can possibly be >>transparent entrusted. Paul, those are two great words to end on. We Thank you so much for joining us on the Cube, sharing what's new at stability and with the HP partnership. >>It's been a pleasure. Lisa. Thank you for your time. >>Likewise. For my guest, Paul Scott. Sally, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube's coverage of HP Discover 2020. The virtual experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

>> Announcer: Live From Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Las Vegas for Dell EMC World 2017. This is The Cube, I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Paul Gillin. And our next guest Manuvir Das, Senior Vice President of Product Management, Dell EMC, former Microsoft Asure, historic role at Microsoft, been at the EMC for a few years. Welcome to The Cube, good to see you. >> Thank you, it's nice to be here. >> So the last year we had a conversation. We were talking about some of the technology and the kind of direction it was going, so first question is from last year to this year, what's changed and what's the news? >> We've brought together two pretty well-known platforms that we did, Isilon for Scalar file and ECS for Scalar object. It one team that are now around called the Unstructured Data Storage Team. And we've done this really big because from the point of view of the customer, what we see is this confluence between file and object really in the space of unstructured storage, and we think we have some ideas of how to put that together in just the right solution for the customer. So that's why we brought these teams together and we've got a lot of great stuff to talk about this year. >> How are you positioning file versus object right now? It seems like object is the rage, but file is still going to be around for a long time. How do you position that? >> Yes, I think it will be. I think basically, if I may, it's not just two, but we see three pillars of unstructured storage. The first is file, which is really more towards compatibility with traditional workloads. A lot of the application ecosystem is comfortable programming against NFS or SMB, and that ecosystem is going to remain for a long time. For instance, in the space-like video surveillance. So that's where we see file. It's optimized more for performance rather than Scale, although you do get Scale. The next level was really object, which is more for your modern workloads, for your web and mobile sort of workloads. Optimized more for Scale rather than performance. And then, the third pillar that we see that we'd be working on now is really realtime data, or what you call streaming data, from things like IOT, where you're getting a firehose of information coming out and you got to store it very, very quickly. So we see these are three different pillars of unstructured storage. And really, what we've been working on in our Unstructured Data Storage Team is how to bring all of these three together in the right solution for the customer. >> So tell us about the group that you're in because this is kind of a new, not new industry, we're talking about unstructured data for many years, going on eight years, but it's becoming super important now as you have this horizontal data fabric development. We talked a little bit about it last year, but you can see a clear line of sight now with apps using data very dynamically. So you need under-the-hood storage, but now you need addressability of data. And so, there's a challenge of getting the right data from the right database to the right place on the app in less than a hundred milliseconds. I mean, that's like the nirvana. >> So I think there's a couple of things happening. Firstly, the advances in hardware have changed the game a fair bit, because you can take a software stack that was not optimized for latency to begin with, you can put it on all Flash hardware and you can reduce the roundtrip a lot, that's one thing. The other thing I see is that especially with the advancement of object >> For the stage of life in IT, you have research background, PhD in Computer Science, I mean, it's a pretty awesome time to be in computer science right now. There's a ton of opportunity that applies from that. Machine learning, all this goodness there. What's your vision of how the next 30 years are going to play out? Because Michael Dell said, "Hey, it's been 33 years," since he's started the company, the next 33 are going to be amazing, and I believe that to be true as well given the science opportunities. How do you look at this, from a personal level and also from a Dell EMC? >> I think what's really going to change is, up 'til now, a lot of things that have been done with computing have started with the thought of, "How much data can I really have?" And then, once I've decided how much data I can really have, what am I going to do with it? And I think sort of the innovation that's happened in storage that I'm a part of, what has really changed is it said, "You don't have to stop and think "about how much data you're going to have." You can just keep all of it. And so, what that means is I don't have to figure out upfront what I'm going to do with this data. I'm just going to bring it all in, it's going to be really cheap, the systems are really scalable that can hold it, and everything is sort of tagged in such a way that after the fact, five years from now, I can go do something with this data that I hadn't envisioned when I brought it in. And I think that just opens up a range of things that were hard to imagine. The other thing I think is, >> Programmatically meaning, from a software standpoint. Discoverability, >> That's right, I think as you said, machine learning is a big part of it. Because I think machine learning unlocks opportunities to mind the data that people hadn't really thought of before. And it comes back to the same thing that when I bring data in, whether it's from sensors or aircraft engines or what have you, I have no idea what I'm going to do with the data, so I have no idea which part of the data is important and which part of the data is less important. But when I can apply things like machine learning after the fact, I don't actually have to worry about that. I just bring it all in, and the algorithms themselves will figure out which part of the data is the useful part of the data. >> Your ScaleUp product line and ScaleOut product line, how are you positioning those two application-wise to your customers? >> So I think there is distinction between tier one storage and tier two storage. I think when you think about tier one storage, it's not just about the numbers, like latency and IOPS, but it's about the whole experience of tier one storage. Do I have, for my disaster recovery, do I have RPO-0, which means I can recover to the exact point in time I was at when I failed over data center. How does my replication work, what data services that I have? So I think our ScaleUp technologies are very well oriented towards the tier one kind of capabilities. And then our ScaleOut technologies are very well oriented towards sort of the ubiquitous tier two storage, which is much more deployable at Scale. It's pretty good performance in two, actually, but not with that complete set of capabilities you think about with tier one in terms of RPO-0s, synchronist replication, those kinds of things. So I think there's a very natural sort of mace between the two. And really, I think from a storage vision, what we see is the tier two storage is so scalable and so cheap, that all of your bools of tier one storage on the top tier down automatically into the tier two storage. And what that means is for our customers, if you think about how much tier one storage they have to provision today, they should be able to provision less of that, because they should be able to tier more of that down to the tier two storage, which is now capable enough to hold the rest of the data. >> And be available. >> And be available, >> Okay so, customers want to do this, a no brainer. So when we hear Amazon talk about this all the time, Jeff Bezos was just talking about just the other day a new chassis, they've got the recognition software so you see facial recognition, a lot of great stuff happening all over the Cloud world with this kind of modeling, with the power of computes that's available. What are the customers do now? Because now they get it, it's a no brainer obviously. Now they've got to change how they did IT 30 years to be agile for tomorrow. What's the playbook? >> So what we're seeing is, the step one that we're seeing more and more today, and have seen really for the last couple of years with Isilon and with DCS, is what I would call Consolidation of the Tier Two. So where we had 12 different clustered silos of storage for the different use cases, let's buy into this model that I can just build one large storage cluster, and it can handle the 12 different use cases at the same time. And that's what we've been proving out for the last few years. I think customers have really, enterprise customers are really getting there. And now, what we're beginning to see this year is the next phase, whether it's the industrial internet with the automotives, et cetera, the more IOT style use cases. In fact, on Wednesday, we'll be talking about a new thing we've got called Project Nautilus, which is the third leg of our stool with the streaming storage that is built on top of Isilon and ECS. And we're now at the point where are first customers are beginning to work with that, where they're saying, "From my sensors, "in the automobiles, on the cameras, "I'm going to bring in this firehouse of data, "I'm going to store it all with you, "but later on, I'm going to do analytics on it. "As it's coming in, I'm going to do "some real-time analytics on it, "and then after the fact, I'm going to do "the more batch style." >> I know Paul Scott wants to jump in, but I want you to just back up because I missed the three pillars. >> The three pillars were file, for which we have Isilon, object for your modern applications and web workloads, for which we have ECS, and then streaming storage for IOT. >> Which is Nautilus? >> Which is Project Nautilus, >> Okay, got it. >> The way I put it to people is traditional storage systems, ScaleUp or ScaleOut, file or object, they need resilience. So when you write the data, you have to write and think at the same time, because you have to record all kinds of information about it, you have to take locks, et cetera. For IOT, you need a storage system that writes now, and thinks later, so that you can just suck it all in. >> It sounds like an operating system. You've got a storage that's turning into like LUNs, provisioning, hardware. It's essentially intelligence software that has to compile, runtime, assembly, all this stuff's going on. >> And there's all these fancy names like LAN Architecture and all that kind of stuff. And what that's all saying is, "I bring the data in "and as it's coming in, "there's some things I already want to do with it, "I do that analytics in real-time. "There's other things when I go tag it, "who was in the photo, where was it, "and then the rest of it, I'm going to do later." And who knows what and when, and that's a beautiful thing. >> You're way along the thinking curve on this obviously, but where are your customers? I mean, you're talking about a pretty radically, different approach to processing and storing data even in realtime. Machine learning, meta tagging, there's a lot for them to absorb. >> And I think that part, it's a vertical driven, use-case driven thing. So there's some industries where we see a lot of uptake on that. Automotive is a great example. >> Financial services, >> Financial services, fraud detection, those kinds of things. And there's other verticals where it's not time for that yet. Like I said, healthcare is a great example. So in those verticals, we see more of just the storage consolidation, let me build one pool of tier two storage, if you will, and consolidate my 12 use cases sort of what we refer to as the Data Lake in our words, but I think it's specific verticals. And that's fine, if you look at even the traditional unstructured storage, I think it really started with certain verticals like media and entertainment, life sciences, and that's sort of where it kicked up from. And I think for the streaming storage, it's these verticals that are more oriented towards IOT, your automotive, your fraud detection, those kinds of things where it's really kicking off, and then it'll sort of broaden from there. >> How is this playing into the Dell server strategy? >> It's really a fantastic thing, I don't want to say so much for us as for our customer, because I've talked to a number of people in these verticals where the customer wants a complete solution for IOT. And what that means is number one: on the edge, do I have the right equipment with the right horsepower and the right software on the edge to bring in all the data from the edge and do the part of the processing that needs to be done right there on the edge of realtime, and then it has to be backed by stuff in the backing environment that can process massive amounts of data. And with Dell, we have the opportunity for the first time that we didn't have with the EMC alone to do the complete solution on both ends of it, both the equipment on the edge as well as the backing IT, so I think it's a great opportunity. >> You bring up so many awesome conversations because it's boring storage, now storage is not boring anymore because it's fundamental to the heartbeat of a company. >> Exactly. >> So here's a question for you, kind of like thinking out loud and riffing with you. So some debate, like, "Listen, I want to find "the needle in the haystacks, "but the haystacks are getting bigger," so there's a problem with that. I got to do more design and more gig digging, if you will. And the second point is customers are saying, to at least to us on The Cube and privately is, "I got a data lake that's turning "into a data swamp, "so help me not have swamps of data, "and I want more needles, "but the stack's getting bigger." What's your advice to those CXOs? Could be a CDO, chief data officer, a CS CISCO, these are the fundamental questions. >> I would say this, whatever technology you're evaluating, whether it's an on-premise technology or a hosted technology from a vendor like us, or it's a service out there in the Public Cloud, if you will, ask yourself two questions. One is, "If I size out what I need right now, "and I multiply it by 10 or 100, "what is it going to cost? "And is it really going to work the same way, "is it going to scale the same way?" Look at the algorithmics inside the product, not the Power Point and say, "The way "they've designed this thing, "when I put 100 times the data "on 100 times the number of servers "on this storage system, "are things actually going to work the same way or not?" >> So it's a scale question, kind of what are the magnitude thinking you need to kind of go out and size it up a bit. >> Because I see right now, the landscape is full of new technologies for storage, and a lot of them sound great and look great on the PowerPoint, and you go do a POC with four nodes or eight nodes, and you put Flash in there and it works really well. But the thing is, when you have 200 nodes of that, when you've got a 30 petabyte cluster and you've got to fail it over because your data center went down, how does that go? >> Well, it's also who's going to run it, too. You want less obstacles, not more, and you don't them to be huge, expensive developers. >> TierPoint, that's the other thing. We really don't talk to our customers in terms of storage acquisition costs anymore, we talk in terms TCO, total cost of ownership. You look at power, you look at cooling. >> That killed the Duke, basically, it was so hard to run and total cost of of ownership. Michael Dell was just on, I was interviewing Michael and I asked him like, "Where's the Cloud strategy?" I was just busting his chops a little bit, 'cause I know he's messaging, trying to get him off his messaging. But he made an interesting comment and metaphor. He goes, "Well John, I remember the days "during the internet days, where's you internet strategy?" Look where that happened, the bubble popped. But ultimately, everything played out as according to plan. There's pet food online, now we've got food delivery, DoorDash, all this stuff's happening. So he kind of was using it to compare to the Cloud today. There's a lot of hope and promise, where's your Cloud strategy? But yet, his point was it's going to be everywhere. >> Yeah, and I would say this, I think people sometimes confuse Cloud with Public Cloud. And I think what happened is, having that issue myself, I would say that Public Cloud exposed a certain model that had some benefits for the customer base that were new. That is, I can use as a service, I don't worry about operationalizing things, I can pay as I go, so I get that, it's elastic. But it also came with a lot of drawbacks. I don't have the kind of control that I would like to have. A normal thing that any person who takes a dependency on infrastructure has is, "Today's my Superbowl Sunday. "Don't touch my environment today." Now you go to a Public Cloud and you use a service that is used by thousands of other customers, so which day is Superbowl Sunday? Every day is Superbowl Sunday for somebody. >> It was a metaphor, Public cloud was a metaphor for virtualization that would effect the entire environment. >> And so, I think the journey we're all in, all the vendors, the Public Cloud suppliers, everybody is, "What are the right set of models "that are going to cover the space for all our customers?" There's not going to be one. There's several. I think the dedicated private Cloud models are certainly very appealing in a number of ways if you do the economics right. And I think that's the journey we're all on sort of together. >> I tweeted a little bit of the jewels out there this morning. True, Private cloud is going to be a $265 billion dollar market, but they were the first ones to actually size that, let's say true private public means essentially hybrid, but on-prem with a data center. That's huge numbers, it's not like rounding errors. >> We believe that, too. And that's why one of the neatest things we've announced this year with ECS object storage is something called ECS Dedicated Cloud, which is basically saying, "You can take the object storage "from us, but it's going to run in our data centers." We operate it, it's actually the developers who wrote the code from my team who are actually operating it, and you can do a variety of hybrid things. You can keep some of it on-prem, some of it off-prem, you can keep all of it off-prem. But regardless, it's your stuff. You can hug it, it's dedicated to you. You're not sharing the cluster with anybody else. You get to decided when you update your version, when you take a maintenance window or what have you. So, we're all searching for that sweet spot, if you will. >> I want to ask you about something, some of the different containers. The hottest thing right now in infrastructure, lack of persistent storage has been a real problem for containers. Is that a problem that's yours to solve or is it Docker's to solve? >> No, I think it is ours to solve with them. So, I'll say a couple of things. Firstly, our modern products, ECS and object storage as well as ScaleIO, our block ScaleOut storage, these are built with containers. So for instance, if you take ECS today, every ECS appliance that we ship, if you look inside very server, it's running Linux with Docker. And all the ECS code is running on Docker containers. That's just how it works. So A: we believe in containers, and two: I think we have been doing the work to provide that persistence ecosystem for containers using our storage. So we have a great team at Dell EMC called EMC Code. And these are people, they do a lot of this integration stuff, they work very closely with Docker and a number of the other frameworks to really plug our storage in. And I think it's a very open ecosystem. There are APIs there now, so you can plug anybody's storage in. And I think that's really if you compare VM-based infrastructures with container-based infrastructures. That's really the gap, because when you operationalize the stuff, you need things like that. You need persistent storage, you need snapshots, you need a VR-storage, you need those kinds of things, but I think that'll all come. >> Well, we're looking to continuing the conversation, I know time's tight. We'd like to follow up with you after the show, maybe bring you into our studio via Skype. You're in a hot area, you got the storage, you got the software, you got some Cloud action going on. Thank you very much for coming on The Cube, appreciate it. >> My pleasure for being here, thank you for having me. >> This is TheCube, live coverage here at Dell EMC World 2017. And I'm John Furrier with Paul Gillin, we'll be right back. Stay with us. (bright tech tones)