welcome back to the cube coverage of aws re invent 2021 i'm john furrier your host of the cube this segment we're going to talk about red hat and the aws evolving partnership a great segment really talking about how hybrid and the enterprise are evolving certainly multi-cloud on the horizon but a lot of benefits in the cloud we've been covering on the cube and on siliconangle with red hat for the past year very relevant we've got gunner helixon gm of red hat enterprise linux and joe fernandez vp of and gm of the hybrid platforms both of red hat gentlemen thanks for coming on the cube yeah thanks for having us thanks for having us john so you know you know me i'm a fanboy of red hat so i always say you know you guys made all the right investments openshift all these things that you guys made decisions years ago playing out beautifully and i think you know with amazon's reinvent you're seeing the themes all play out modern application stack you're starting to see things at the top of the stack evolving you've got 5g in the edge workloads being redefined and expanded on the cloud with cloud scale so everything has been going down to hybrid and enterprise grade level discussions this is on the wheelhouse of red hat so one congratulations but what's your reaction what do you guys see this year at re invent what's the top story i can start first yeah sure i mean i mean clearly you know aws itself is huge but as you mentioned the world is hybrid right so customers are running uh still in their data center in the amazon public cloud across multiple public clouds and out to the edge and bringing more and more workloads right so it's not just the applications it's analytics it's ai it's machine learning and so yeah we just can expect to see more discussion around that more great examples of customer use cases and as you mentioned red hat's been right in the middle of this for some time john you guys also had some success with with the fully managed open shift service called rosa rosa which is red hat open shift service on advanced another acronym but really this is about the what the customers are looking for can you take us through an update on openshift on aws because the combination of managed services in the cloud refactoring applications but working on premises is a big deal take us through that why that's so important yeah so we've had customers running uh openshift on aws for a long time right so whether it's our software uh offerings where customers deploy openshift themselves or you know our fully managed cloud service we've had cloud services on aws for over five years uh what rosa brings a red hat open shift on aws is a jointly managed service right so we're working in partnership with uh with amazon with aws to make openshift available as a jointly managed service offering it's a native aws service offering you can get it right through the aws console you can leverage your aws committed spend but most importantly you know it's something that we're working on together bringing new customers to the table for both red hat and aws and we're really excited about it because it's really helping customers accelerate their move to the public cloud and and really helping them uh you know drive that hybrid strategy that we talked about gun early you know i want to get your thoughts on this because one of the things that i love about this market right now is open source continues to be amazing continues to drive more value and this new migration of talent coming in the numbers are just continuing to to grow and grow but the importance of red hat's history with aws is pretty significant i mean red hat pioneered open source uh and has been involved with aws from the early days can you take us through a little bit of the history for the folks that may not know red hat's partnership with aws yeah i mean we've been collaborating with aws since uh 2008 so for over a decade we've been working together and what's made the partnership work is uh that we have a common interest in making sure that uh customers have a consistent approachable experience whether they're going on-premise or in the cloud nobody wants to have to go through an entire retraining and retooling exercise just to take advantage of all the great all the great advantages of the cloud and so being able to use something like red hat enterprise linux as a consistent substrate on which you can build your application platforms is really attractive so that's where the partnership started and since then we've had the ability to better integrate with the native aws services and one thing i want to point out is that you know a lot of these a lot of these integrations are kind of technical well but these are also uh it's not just about technical consistency um across these platforms it's also about operational consistency and business concerns and when you're moving into an open hybrid cloud kind of a situation that's what becomes important right you don't want to have two completely different tool sets on two completely different platforms you want as much consistency as possible as you move from one to the other and i think you and i think a lot of customers see value in that both for the retta enterprise linux side of the business and also on the openshift side of the business well that's interesting i'd love to get your both perspective on this whole enterprise focus because you know the enterprises as you know guys you've been there from the beginning they have requirements and they're sometimes they're different by enterprise so as you see cloud i mean i remember the early days of amazon it's the 15th year of aws 10th year of reinvent as a conference i mean that seems like a lifetime ago but that's not not too far ago where you know there's like well amazon might not make it it's only for developers enterprises do their own thing now it's like it's all about the enterprise how are enterprise customers evolving with you guys because they're all seeing the benefit of re-platforming but as they refactor how has red hat evolved with that with that trend how have you helped amazon yeah so as we mentioned you know enterprises you know really across the globe are adopting a hybrid cloud strategy but hybrid actually isn't just about the infrastructure so certainly the infrastructure where these enterprises are running this application is increasingly becoming hybrid as you move from data center to multiple public clouds and out to the edge but the enterprises application portfolios are also hybrid right it's a hybrid mix of very traditional monolithic anterior type applications but also new cloud native services that have either been filled built from scratch or as you mentioned you know existing applications have been refactored and then they're moving beyond the applications as i mentioned to make better use of data also evolving their processes right for how they you know build deploy and manage you know leveraging ci cd and git ops and so forth so really for us it's how do you help enterprises bring all that together right manage this hybrid infrastructure that's supporting this you know hybrid portfolio of applications and really help them evolve their processes we've been uh you know working with enterprises on these types of challenges for a long time and and we're you know now partnering with amazon to do the same in terms of our joint product and service offerings talk about the rel evolution i mean because that's the bread and butter for red hat's been there for a long time open shift again making earlier i mentioned the bets you guys made with kubernetes for instance and has all been made all the right moves so i love rosa you got me sold on that rail though has been the the tr the tried and true steady uh workhorse how has that evolved uh with workloads yeah you know it's interesting it's uh uh i think when when customers were at the stage when they were wondering if uh well can i use aws for to solve my problem or where should i use aws to solve my problem our focus was largely on kind of technical enablement can we keep up with the pace of new hardware that amazon is rolling up you know can we can we ensure that consistency with on-premise and off-premise and i think now we're starting to shift focus into uh really differentiating rel on the aws platform again integrating natively with aws services making it easier to operate in aws um and a good example of this is using tools like red hat insights which we announced i guess about a year ago which is now included in every red hat enterprise linux subscription using tools like insights in order to give customers advice on maybe potential problems that are coming up helping customers solve them kelvin customers identify problems before they before they happen helping them with performance problems um and uh again having uh additional tools like that additional cloud-based tools um makes rel uh as easy to use on the on the cloud despite all the complexity of all the you know the redeploying refactoring microservices there's now a proliferation of infrastructure options um and to the extent that rail can be the thing that is consistent solid reliable secure uh just as customers are customers getting in um then then we can make customers successful you know joe we talked about this last time we were chatting i think red hat summit or ansible fest i forget which event it was but we were talking about how modern application developers at the top of the stack just want to code they want to write some code and now they want the infrastructure's code aka devops devsecops but as this trend of moving up the stack continues to be a big theme at reinvent um there requires automation that requires a lot of stuff to happen under the covers red hat's at the center of all this action from from historical perspective pre-existing enterprises before cloud now during cloud and soon to be cloud scale how do you see that evolving because how are customers shaping their architecture because i mean this is distributed computing in the cloud it's it's essentially we've seen this movie before but now at such a scale where data security these are all new elements how do you how do you talk about that yeah well first of all as as gunner linux is a given right linux is going to be available in every environment data center public cloud edge linux combined with linux containers and kubernetes that's the abstraction like separating abstracting the applications away from the infrastructure and now it's all about how do you build on top of that to bring that automation that you mentioned right so you know we're very focused on helping customers really build you know fully automated end-to-end deployment pipelines so they can build their applications more efficiently they can automate the the continuous integration and deployment of those applications into whatever cloud or edge footprint they choose and then they can promote across environments because again it's not just about developing the applications it's about moving them all the way through to production you know where you know work their customers are relying on you know on those services to do their work and so forth and so that's that's what we're doing is you know obviously uh i think linux is a given linux containers kubernetes you know those decisions you know have been made and now it's a matter of how can we put that together uh with the automation that allows them to accelerate those deployments out to production so customers can take advantage of them you know gunner we were always joking on the cube you know i was old enough remember when we used to install linux on a server back in the day you know now a lot of these young developers never actually act to install the software and do some of those configurations because it's all automated now again the commoditization and automation trend abstraction layers some say is a good thing um so how do you see the evolution of this devops movement with the partnership of aws going forward what types of things are you working on with amazon web services and what kind of offerings can customers look forward to yeah sure so i mean it used to be that uh as you say you know linux was something that you managed with a mouse and a keyboard and uh and i think it's been quite a few years since uh since any significant amount of linux has been managed for the mouse and keyboard a lot of it is uh whatever scripts automation tools configuration management tools things like this and the investments we've made both in rel and then specifically uh rel on aws is around enabling rail to be more manageable um and so including things like something we call system roles so these are ansible modules that kind of automate routine systems administration tasks um we've made investments in something called image builder and so this is a tool that allows customers to kind of compose the operating system that they need create a blueprint for it and then kind of stamp out uh the same image whether it's uh an iso image you know so you can install it on premise or in it or in mi so we can deploy it in aws so again helping customers it's the problem used to be helping customers package and manage dependencies and and that kind of old world three and a half inch floppy disk kind of linux problems um and now we've evolved towards making uh making linux easier to deploy and manage at a grand scale um both whether you're in aws or whether you're on premise joe take us through the hybrid story i know obviously success with openshift's managed service on aws uh what's the update there for you what what are customers expecting this re invent and what's the story for uh for you guys yeah so you know the openshift managed services business is the fastest growing segment of our business we're seeing uh lots of new customers and again you know bringing new customers i think for both uh red hat and and aws through this service um so we expect to to hear from from customers uh at re invent about what they're doing again and not not only with uh with openshift and our uh our red hat solutions but really with with what they're building on top of those uh service offerings of those solutions to to sort of bring more value to their customers so that to me that's always the best part of re invent is is really hearing from customers and you know when we all start going there in person again to actually be able to meet with them one-on-one uh whether it's in person or virtual so far so looking forward to that well great to have you guys on thecube congratulations on all the success the enterprise continues to adopt more and more cloud which benefits all the work you guys have done both on the rail side and as you guys modernized with all these great services and managed services continues to be the center of all the action thanks for coming on appreciate it thanks john okay red hat's partnership with aws evolving as cloud scale edge all happening all distributed computing all happening at large scale it's thecube with cube coverage of aws re invent 2021 i'm john furrier thanks for watching [Music] you

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host for theCUBE. In this segment, we're going to be talking about Red Hat and the AWS evolving partnership. A great segment, really talking about how Hybrid and the Enterprise are evolving, certainly multicloud and the horizon. But a lot of benefits in the cloud, we've been covering on theCUBE and on SiliconANGLE with Red Hat for the past year. Very relevant. We've got Gunnar Hellekson, GM of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, And Joe Fernandes, VP and GM of the Hybrid Platforms, both of Red Hat. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah, thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us John. >> So, you know, me, I'm a fan boy of Red Hat. So I always say, you guys made all the right investments, OpenShift, all these things that you guys made decisions years ago playing out beautifully. And I think, you know, with Amazon's re:Invent, you're seeing the themes all play out. Modern application stack, you're starting to see things at the top of the stack evolve, you've got 5G in the Edge, workloads being redefined and expanded on the cloud with Cloud Scale. So everything has been going down to Hybrid and Enterprise grade level discussions. This is in the Wheelhouse of Red Hat. So I want to congratulate you. But what's your reaction? What do you guys see this year at re:Invent? What's the top story? >> I can start. >> Who wants to start with first? >> Sure, I mean, clearly, AWS itself is huge. But as you mentioned, the world is Hybrid, right, so customers are running still in their data center, in the Amazon Public Cloud across multiple Public Clouds and out to the Edge and bring in more and more workloads. So it's not just the applications, analytics. It's AI, it's machine learning. And so, yeah, we can expect to see more discussion around that, more great examples of customer use cases. And as you mentioned, Red Hat has been right in the middle of this for some time John. >> You guys also had some success with the fully managed OpenShift service called ROSA, R-O-S-A, which is Red Hat OpenShift Service on AWS, another acronym, but really this is about what the customers are looking for. Can you take us through an update on OpenShift on AWS, because the combination of managed services in the cloud, refactoring applications, but working on-premises is a big deal. Take us through why that's so important. >> Yeah, so, we've had customers running OpenShift on AWS for a long time, right? So whether it's our software-based offerings where customers deploy OpenShift themselves, or our fully managed cloud service. We've had cloud services on AWS for over five years. What ROSA brings or Red Hat OpenShift on AWS is a jointly managed service, right? So we're working in partnership with Amazon, with AWS to make OpenShift available as a jointly-managed service offering. It's a native AWS service offering. You can get it right through the AWS console. You can leverage your AWS committed spend. But, most importantly, you know, it's something that we're working on together. Bringing new customers to the table for both Red Hat and AWS. And we're really excited about it because it's really helping customers accelerate their move to the public cloud and really helping them drive that Hybrid strategy that we talked about. >> Gunnar, you know what I want to get your thoughts on this, because one of the things that I love about this market right now is open-source continues to be amazing, continues to drive more value, and there's new migration of talent coming in. The numbers are just continuing to grow and grow. But the importance of Red Hat's history with AWS is pretty significant. I mean, Red Hat pioneered Open-source and it's been involved with AWS from the early days. Can you take us through a little bit of history for the folks that may not know Red Hat's partnership with AWS? >> Yeah. I mean, we've been collaborating with AWS since 2008. So for over a decade we've been working together, and what's made the partnership work is that we have a common interest in making sure that customers have a consistent approachable experience. Whether they're going on-premise or in the cloud. Nobody wants to have to go through an entire retraining and retooling exercise just to take advantage of all the great advantages of the cloud. And, so being able to use something like Red Hat Enterprise Linux as a consistent substrate on which you can build your application platforms is really attractive. So, that's where the partnership started. And since then we've had the ability to better integrate with native AWS services. And one thing I want to point out is that, a lot of these integrations are kind of technical. It's not just about technical consistency across these platforms, it's also about operational consistency and business concerns. And when you're moving into an Open Hybrid Cloud kind of a situation, that's what becomes important, right? You don't want to have two completely different tool sets on two completely different platforms. You want as much consistency as possible as you move from one to the other. And I think a lot of customers see value in that, both for the Red Hat Enterprise Linux side of the business, and also on the OpenShift side of the business. >> Well that's interesting. I'd love to get your both perspective on this whole Enterprise focus, because the Enterprise is, as you know, guys you've been there from the beginning, they have requirements. And there're sometimes, they're different by Enterprise. So as you see cloud, and I remember early days of Amazon, it's the 15th year of AWS, 10th year of re:Invent as a conference. I mean, that seems like a lifetime ago. But that's not, not too far ago where, you know, it was like, well, Amazon might not make it, its only for developers. Enterprisers do their own thing. Now it's like, it's all about the Enterprise. How are Enterprise customers evolving with you guys? Because they're all seeing the benefit of replatforming. But as they refactor, how has Red Hat evolved with that trend and how have you helped Amazon? >> Yeah, so as we mentioned, Enterprisers really across the globe are adopting a Hybrid Cloud Strategy. But, Hybrid actually isn't just about the infrastructure. So, its certainly the infrastructure where these Enterprisers are running these applications is increasingly becoming Hybrid as you move from data center to multiple public clouds and out to the Edge. But the Enterprisers application portfolios are also Hybrid, right? It's a Hybrid mix of very traditional monolithic and tier type applications. But also new cloud native services that have either been built from scratch, or as you mentioned, existing applications have been refactored. And then they're moving beyond the applications, as I mentioned to make better use of data. Also evolving their processes for how they build, deploy, and manage, leveraging, CI/CD and GitOps and so forth. So really for us it's, how do you help Enterprises bring all that together, right? Manage this Hybrid infrastructure that's supporting this Hybrid portfolio of applications that really help them evolve their processes. We've been working with Enterprises on these types of challenges for a long time. And we're now partnering with Amazon to do the same in terms of our joint product and service offerings. >> Talking about the RHEL evolution. I mean, because that's the bread and butter for Red Hat. It has been there for a long time. OpenShift again, making argument earlier, I mentioned the bets you guys made with Kubernetes, for instance, and it's all been made with all the right moves. So I love ROSA. You got me sold on that. RHEL though has been the tried and true steady workhorse. How has that evolved with workloads? >> Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think when customers were at the stage, when they were wondering, if well, can I use AWS to solve my problem, or should I use AWS to solve my problem? Our focus was largely on kind of technical enablement. Can we keep up with the pace of new hardware that Amazon is rolling up? Can we ensure that consistency with the on-premise and off-premise? And I think now we're starting to shift focus into really differentiating RHEL on the AWS platform. Again, integrating natively with AWS services, making it easier to operate in AWS. And a good example of this is using tools like Red Hat Insights, which we announced, I guess, about a year ago. Which is now included in every Red Hat Enterprise Linux subscription. Using tools like Insights in order to give customers advice on maybe potential problems that are coming up, helping customer solve them. Can the customers identify problems before they happen? Helping them with performance problems. And again, having additional tools like that, additional cloud-based tools, makes RHEL as easy to use on the Cloud despite all the complexity of all the redeploying, refactoring, microservices, there is now a proliferation of infrastructure options, and to the extent that RHEL can be the thing that is consistent, solid, reliable, secure, just as customers are getting in, then we can make customer successful. >> You know, Joe, we talked about this last time we were chatting, I think Red Hat Summit or Ansible Fest, I forget which event it was, but we were talking about how modern application developers at the top of the stack just want to code. They want to write some code, and now they want the infrastructure's code, AKA DevOps, DevSecOps, but as this trend of moving up the stack continues to be a big theme at re:Invent, that requires automation. That requires a lot of stuff that happened under the covers. Red Hat is at the center of all this action from historical perspective, pre-existing Enterprises before Cloud now, during Cloud, and soon to be Cloud Scale, how do you see that evolving? Because how are customers shaping their architecture? Cause this is distributed computing in the cloud. It's essentially, we've seen this moving before, but now at such a scale where data, security, these are all new elements. How do you talk about that? >> Yeah, well, first of all, got to mention, Linux is a given right. Linux is going to be available in every environment, data center, Public Cloud, Edge. Linux combined with Linux containers and Kubernetes, that's the abstraction like abstracting the applications away from the infrastructure. And now it's all about how do you build on top of that to bring that automation that you mentioned. So, we're very focused on helping customers really build fully automated end to end deployment pipelines, so they can build their applications more efficiently. They can automate the continuous integration and deployment of those applications into whatever Cloud or Edge footprint they choose. And that they can promote across environments. Because again, it's not just about developing the applications, it's about moving them all the way through to production where their customers are relying on those services to do their work and so forth. And so that's what we're doing is, you know, obviously I think, Linux is a given, Linux, Containers, Kubernetes. Those decisions have been made and now it's a matter of how can we put that together with the automation that allows them to accelerate those deployments out to production so customers can take advantage of them? >> You know, Gunnar, we were joking in theCUBE. I was old enough to remember we used to install Linux on a server back in the day. Now a lot of these young developers never actually have to install the software and do some of those configurations 'cause it's all automated now. Again, the commoditization and automation trend, abstraction layers, some say, is a good thing. So how do you see the evolution of this DevOps movement with the partnership with AWS going forward? What types of things are you working on with Amazon Web Services and what kind of offerings can customers look forward to? >> Yeah, sure. So, I mean, it used to be that as you say, Linux was something that you managed with a mouse and keyboard. And I think it's been quite a few years since any significant amount of Linux has been managed with a mouse and a keyboard. A lot of it is scripts, automation tools, configuration management tools, things like this. And the investments we've made both in RHEL and in specifically RHEL on AWS is around enabling RHEL to be more manageable. And so, including things like something we call System Roles. So these are Ansible modules that kind of automate routine system's administration tasks. We've made investments in something called Image Builder. And so this is a tool that allows customers to kind of compose the operating system that they need, create a blueprint for it, and then kind of stamp out the same image, whether it's an ISO image, so you can install it on-premise or an AMI so we can deploy it in AWS. So again, the problem used to be helping customers package and manage dependencies and that kind of old world, three and a half-inch floppy disc kind of Linux problems. And now we've evolved towards making Linux easier to deploy and manage at a grand scale whether you're in AWS or whether you're On premise. >> Joe, take us through the Hybrid story. I know obviously success with OpenShifts Managed Service on AWS. What's the update there for you? What are customers expecting this re:Invent and what's the story for you guys? >> Yeah, so, you know, the OpenShift Managed Services business this is the fastest growing segment of our business. We're seeing lots of new customers. And again, bringing new customers, I think for both Red Hat and AWS through this service. So, we expected to hear from customers at re:Invent about what they're doing. Again, not only with OpenShift and our Red Hat solutions, but really with what they're building on top of those service offerings, of those solutions to sort of bring more value to their customers. To me, that's always the best part of re:Invent is really hearing from customers. And when we all start going there in person again, to actually be able to meet with them one-on-one, whether it's in person or virtual and so forth. So, looking forward to that. >> Well, great to have you guys on theCUBE. Congratulations on all success. The Enterprise continues to adopt more and more Cloud which benefits all the work you guys have done both on the RHEL side, and as you guys modernize with all these great services and managed services continues to be the center of all the action. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> Thanks John. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Red Hat's partnership with AWS evolving as Cloud scale Edge, all distributed computing, all happening at large scale. This is theCUBE with CUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Yukon and Cloud. Native Con North America 2020 Virtual brought to you by Red Hat The Cloud, Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the cubes Ongoing coverage of Cuba con North America. Joe Fernandez is here. He's with Stephanie, Cheras and Joe's, the V, P and GM for core cloud platforms. That red hat and Stephanie is this s VP and GM of the Red Hat Enterprise. Lennox bu. Two great friends of the Cube. Awesome seeing you guys. How you doing? >>It's great to be here, Dave. Yeah, thanks >>for the opportunity. >>Hey, so we all talked, you know, recently, uh, answerable fest Seems like a while ago, but But we talked about what's new? Red hat really coming at it from an automation perspective. But I wonder if we could take a view from open shift and what's new from the standpoint of you really focus on helping customers, you know, change their operations and operationalize. And Stephanie, Maybe you could start, and then, you know, Joe, you could bring in some added color. >>No, that's great. And I think you know one of the things we try and do it. Red hat clearly building off of open source. We have been focused on this open hybrid cloud strategy for, you know, really years. Now the beauty of it is that hybrid cloud and open hybrid cloud continues to evolve right with bringing in things like speed and stability and scale and now adding in other footprints, like manage services as well as edge and pulling that all together across the whole red hat portfolio from the platforms, right? Certainly with Lennox and roll into open shift in the platform with open shift and then adding automation, which certainly you need for scale. But it's ah, it's continues to evolve as the as the definition of open hybrid cloud evolves. >>Great. So thank you, Stephanie jokes. You guys got hard news here that you could maybe talk about 46? >>Yeah. Eso eso open shift is our enterprise kubernetes platform. With this announcement, we announced the release of open ship 4.6 Eso eso We're doing releases every quarter tracking the upstream kubernetes release cycle. So this brings communities 1.19, which is, um but itself brings a number of new innovations, some specific things to call out. We have this new automated installer for open shift on bare metal, and that's definitely a trend that we're seeing is more customers not only looking at containers but looking at running containers directly on bare metal environments. Open shift provides an abstraction, you know, which combines Cuban. And he's, uh, on top of Lennox with RL. I really across all environments, from bare metal to virtualization platforms to the various public clouds and out to the edge. But we're seeing a lot of interest in bare metal. This is basically increasing the really three automation to install seamlessly and manage upgrades in those environments. We're also seeing a number of other enhancements open shifts service mesh, which is our SDO based solution for managing, uh, the interactions between micro services being able to manage traffic against those services. Being able to do tracing. We have a new release of that on open shift Ford out six on then, um, some work specific to the public cloud that we started extending into the government clouds. So we already supported AWS and Azure. With this release, we added support for the A W s government cloud as well. Azaz Acela's Microsoft Azure government on dso again This is really important to like our public sector customers who are looking to move to the public cloud leveraging open shift as an abstraction but wanted thio support it on the specialized clouds that they need to use with azure gonna meet us Cup. >>So, joke, we stay there for a minute. So so bare metal talking performance there because, you know, you know what? You really want to run fast, right? So that's the attractiveness there. And then the point about SDO in the open, open shift service measure that makes things simpler. Maybe talk a little bit about sort of business impact and what customers should expect to get out of >>these two things. So So let me take them one at a time, right? So so running on bare metal certainly performances a consideration. You know, I think a lot of fixed today are still running containers, and Cuban is on top of some form of virtualization. Either a platform like this fear or open stack, or maybe VMS in the in one of the public clouds. But, you know containers don't depend on a virtualization layer. Containers only depend on Lennox and Lennox runs great on bare metal. So as we see customers moving more towards performance and Leighton see sensitive workloads, they want to get that Barry mental performance on running open shift on bare metal and their containerized applications on that, uh, platform certainly gives them that advantage. Others just want to reduce the cost right. They want to reduce their VM sprawl, the infrastructure and operational cost of managing avert layer beneath their careers clusters. And that's another benefit. So we see a lot of uptake in open shift on bare metal on the service match side. This is really about You know how we see applications evolving, right? Uh, customers are moving more towards these distributed architectures, taking, you know, formally monolithic or enter applications and splitting them out into ah, lots of different services. The challenge there becomes. Then how do you manage all those connections? Right, Because something that was a single stack is now comprised of tens or hundreds of services on DSO. You wanna be able to manage traffic to those services, so if the service goes down, you can redirect that those requests thio to an alternative or fail over service. Also tracing. If you're looking at performance issues, you need to know where in your architecture, er you're having those degradations and so forth. And, you know, those are some of the challenges that people can sort of overcome or get help with by using service mash, which is powered by SDO. >>And then I'm sorry, Stephanie ever get to in a minute. But which is 11 follow up on that Joe is so the rial differentiation between what you bring in what I can just if I'm in a mono cloud, for instance is you're gonna you're gonna bring this across clouds. I'm gonna You're gonna bring it on, Prem And we're gonna talk about the edge in in a minute. Is that right? From a differentiation standpoint, >>Yeah, that That's one of the key >>differentiations. You know, Read has been talking about the hybrid cloud for a long time. We've we've been articulating are open hybrid cloud strategy, Andi, >>even if that's >>not a strategy that you may be thinking about, it is ultimately where folks end up right, because all of our enterprise customers still have applications running in the data center. But they're also all starting to move applications out to the public cloud. As they expand their usage of public cloud, you start seeing them adopted multi cloud strategies because they don't want to put all their eggs in one basket. And then for certain classes of applications, they need to move those applications closer to the data. And and so you start to see EJ becoming part of that hybrid cloud picture on DSO. What we do is basically provide a consistency across all those environments, right? We want run great on Amazon, but also great on Azure on Google on bare metal in the data center during medal out at the edge on top of your favorite virtualization platform. And yeah, that that consistency to take a set of applications and run them the same way across all those environments. That is just one of the key benefits of going with red hat as your provider for open hybrid cloud solutions. >>All right, thank you. Stephanie would come back to you here, so I mean, we talk about rail a lot because your business unit that you manage, but we're starting to see red hats edge strategy unfolded. Kind of real is really the linchpin I wanna You could talk about how you're thinking about the edge and and particularly interested in how you're handling scale and why you feel like you're in a good position toe handle that massive scale on the requirements of the edge and versus hey, we need a new OS for the edge. >>Yeah, I think. And Joe did a great job of said and up it does come back to our view around this open hybrid cloud story has always been about consistency. It's about that language that you speak, no matter where you want to run your applications in between rela on on my side and Joe with open shift and and of course, you know we run the same Lennox underneath. So real core os is part of open shift that consistently see leads to a lot of flexibility, whether it's through a broad ecosystem or it's across footprints. And so now is we have been talking with customers about how they want to move their applications closer to data, you know, further out and away from their data center. So some of it is about distributing your data center, getting that compute closer to the data or closer to your customers. It drives, drives some different requirements right around. How you do updates, how you do over the air updates. And so we have been working in typical red hat fashion, right? We've been looking at what's being done in the upstream. So in the fedora upstream community, there is a lot of working that has been done in what's called the I. O. T Special Interest group. They have been really investigating what the requirements are for this use case and edge. So now we're really pleased in, um, in our most recent release of really aid relate 00.3. We have put in some key capabilities that we're seeing being driven by these edge use cases. So things like How do you do quick image generation? And that's important because, as you distribute, want that consistency created tailored image, be able to deploy that in a consistent way, allow that to address scale, meet security requirements that you may have also right updates become very important when you start to spread this out. So we put in things in order to allow remote device mirroring so that you can put code into production and then you can schedule it on those remote devices toe happen with the minimal disruption. Things like things like we all know now, right with all this virtual stuff, we often run into things like not ideal bandwidth and sometimes intermittent connectivity with all of those devices out there. So we put in, um, capabilities around, being able to use something called rpm Austria, Um, in order to be able to deliver efficient over the air updates. And then, of course, you got to do intelligent rollbacks for per chance that something goes wrong. How do you come back to a previous state? So it's all about being able to deploy at scale in a distributed way, be ready for that use case and have some predictability and consistency. And again, that's what we build our platforms for. It's all about predictability and consistency, and that gives you flexibility to add your innovation on top. >>I'm glad you mentioned intelligent rollbacks I learned a long time ago. You always ask the question. What happens when something goes wrong? You learn a lot from the answer to that, but You know, we talk a lot about cloud native. Sounds like you're adapting well to become edge native. >>Yeah. I mean, I mean, we're finding whether it's inthe e verticals, right in the very specific use cases or whether it's in sort of an enterprise edge use case. Having consistency brings a ton of flexibility. It was funny, one of our talking with a customer not too long ago. And they said, you know, agility is the new version of efficiency. So it's that having that sort of language be spoken everywhere from your core data center all the way out to the edge that allows you a lot of flexibility going forward. >>So what if you could talk? I mentioned just mentioned Cloud Native. I mean, I think people sometimes just underestimate the effort. It takes tow, make all this stuff run in all the different clouds the engineering efforts required. And I'm wondering what kind of engineering you do with if any with the cloud providers and and, of course, the balance of the ecosystem. But But maybe you could describe that a little bit. >>Yeah, so? So Red Hat works closely with all the major cloud providers you know, whether that's Amazon, Azure, Google or IBM Cloud. Obviously, Andi, we're you know, we're very keen on sort of making sure that we're providing the best environment to run enterprise applications across all those environments, whether you're running it directly just with Lennox on Ralph or whether you're running it in a containerized environment with Open Chef, which which includes route eso eso, our partnership includes work we do upstream, for example. You know, Red Hat help. Google launched the Cuban community, and I've been, you know, with Google. You know, we've been the top two contributors driving that product that project since inception, um, but then also extends into sort of our hosted services. So we run a jointly developed and jointly managed service called the Azure Red Hat Open Shift Service. Together with Microsoft were our joint customers can get access to open shift in an azure environment as a native azure service, meaning it's, you know, it's fully integrated, just like any other. As your service you can tied into as you're building and so forth. It's sold by by Azure Microsoft's sales reps. Um, but you know, we get the benefit of working together with our Microsoft counterparts and developing that service in managing that service and then in supporting our joint customers. We over the summer announced sort of a similar partnership with Amazon and we'll be launching are already doing pilots on the Amazon Red Hat Open ship service, which is which is, you know, the same concept now applied to the AWS cloud. So that will be coming out g a later this year, right? But again, whether it's working upstream or whether it's, you know, partnering on managed services. I know Stephanie team also do a lot of work with Microsoft, for example, on sequel server on Lenox dot net on Lenox. Whoever thought be running that applications on Linux. But that's, you know, a couple of years old now, a few years old, So eso again. It's been a great partnership, not just with Microsoft, but with all the cloud providers. >>So I think you just shared a little little He showed a little leg there, Joe, what's what's coming g A. Later this year. I want to circle back to >>that. Yeah, eso we way announced a preview earlier this year of of the Amazon Red Hat Open ships service. It's not generally available yet. We're you know, we're taking customers. We want toe, sort of be early access, get access to pilots and then that'll be generally available later this year. Although Red Hat does manage our own service Open ship dedicated that's available on AWS today. But that's a service that's, you know, solely, uh, operated by Red Hat. This new service will be jointly operated by Red Hat and Amazon together Idea. That would be sort of a service that we are delivering together as partners >>as a managed service and and okay, so that's in beta now. I presume if it's gonna be g a little, it's >>like, Yeah, that's yeah, >>that's probably running on bare metal. I would imagine that >>one is running >>on E. C. Two. That's running an A W C C T V exactly, and >>run again. You know, all of our all of >>our I mean, we you know, that open shift does offer bare metal cloud, and we do you know, we do have customers who can take the open shift software and deploy it there right now are managed. Offering is running on top of the C two and on top of Azure VM. But again, this is this is appealing to customers who, you know, like what we bring in terms of an enterprise kubernetes platform, but don't wanna, you know, operated themselves, right? So it's a fully managed service. You just come and build and deploy your APS, and then we manage all of the infrastructure and all the underlying platform for you >>that's going to explode. My prediction. Um, let's take an example of heart example of security. And I'm interested in how you guys ensure a consistent, you know, security experience across all these locations on Prem Cloud. Multiple clouds, the edge. Maybe you could talk about that. And Stephanie, I'm sure you have a perspective on this is Well, from the standpoint of of Ralph. So who wants to start? >>Yeah, Maybe I could start from the bottom and then I'll pass it over to Joe to talk a bit. I think one of these aspects about security it's clearly top of mind of all customers. Um, it does start with the very bottom and base selection in your OS. We continue to drive SC Lennox capabilities into rural to provide that foundational layer. And then as we run real core OS and open shift, we bring over that s C Lennox capability as well. Um, but, you know, there's a whole lot of ways to tackle this we've done. We've done a lot around our policies around, um see ve updates, etcetera around rail to make sure that we are continuing to provide on DCA mitt too. Mitigating all critical and importance, providing better transparency toe how we assess those CVS. So security is certainly top of mind for us. And then as we move forward, right there's also and joke and talk about the security work we do is also capabilities to do that in container ization. But you know, we we work. We work all the way from the base to doing things like these images in these easy to build images, which are tailored so you can make them smaller, less surface area for security. Security is one of those things. That's a lifestyle, right? You gotta look at it from all the way the base in the operating system, with things like sc Lennox toe how you build your images, which now we've added new capabilities. There And then, of course, in containers. There's, um there's a whole focus in the open shift area around container container security, >>Joe. Anything you want to add to that? >>Yeah, sure. I >>mean, I think, you know, obviously, Lennox is the foundation for, you know, for all public clouds. It's it's driving enterprise applications in the data center, part of keeping those applications. Security is keeping them up to date And, you know, through, you know, through real, we provide, you know, securing up to date foundation as a Stephanie mentioned as you move into open shift, you're also been able to take advantage of, uh, Thio to take advantage of essentially mutability. Right? So now the application that you're deploying isn't immutable unit that you build once as a container image, and then you deploy that out all your various environments. When you have to do an update, you don't go and update all those environments. You build a new image that includes those updates, and then you deploy those images out rolling fashion and, as you mentioned that you could go back if there's issues. So the idea, the notion of immutable application deployments has a lot to do with security, and it's enabled by containers. And then, obviously you have cured Panetti's and, you know, and all the rest of our capabilities as part of open Shift managing that for you. We've extended that concept to the entire platform. So Stephanie mentioned, real core West Open shift has always run on real. What we have done in open shift for is we've taken an immutable version of Ralph. So it's the same red hat enterprise Lennox that we've had for years. But now, in this latest version relate, we have a new way to package and deploy it as a relic or OS image, and then that becomes part of the platform. So when customers want toe in addition to keeping their applications up to date, they need to keep their platform up to dates. Need to keep, you know, up with the latest kubernetes patches up with the latest Lennox packages. What we're doing is delivering that as one platform, so when you get updates for open shift, they could include updates for kubernetes. They could include updates for Lennox itself as well as all the integrated services and again, all of this is just you know this is how you keep your applications secure. Is making sure your you know, taking care of that hygiene of, you know, managing your vulnerabilities, keeping everything patched in up to date and ultimately ensuring security for your application and users. >>I know I'm going a little bit over, but I have I have one question that I wanna ask you guys and a broad question about maybe a trends you see in the business. I mean, you look at what we talk a lot about cloud native, and you look at kubernetes and the interest in kubernetes off the charts. It's an area that has a lot of spending momentum. People are putting resource is behind it. But you know, really, to build these sort of modern applications, it's considered state of the art on. Do you see a lot of people trying to really bring that modern approach toe any cloud we've been talking about? EJ. You wanna bring it also on Prem And people generally associate this notion of cloud native with this kind of elite developers, right? But you're bringing it to the masses and there's 20 million plus software developers out there, and most you know, with all due respect that you know they may not be the the the elites of the elite. So how are you seeing this evolve in terms of re Skilling people to be able, handle and take advantage of all this? You know, cool new stuff that's coming out. >>Yeah, I can start, you know, open shift. Our focus from the beginning has been bringing kubernetes to the enterprise. So we think of open shift as the dominant enterprise kubernetes platform enterprises come in all shapes and sizes and and skill sets. As you mentioned, they have unique requirements in terms of how they need toe run stuff in their data center and then also bring that to production, whether it's in the data center across the public clouds eso So part of it is, you know, making sure that the technology meets the requirements and then part of it is working. The people process and and culture thio make them help them understand what it means to sort of take advantage of container ization and cloud native platforms and communities. Of course, this is nothing new to red hat, right? This is what we did 20 years ago when we first brought Lennox to the Enterprise with well, right on. In essence, Carozza is basically distributed. Lennox right Kubernetes builds on Lennox and brings it out to your cluster to your distributed systems on across the hybrid cloud. So So nothing new for Red Hat. But a lot of the same challenges apply to this new cloud native world. >>Awesome. Stephanie, we'll give you the last word, >>all right? And I think just a touch on what Joe talked about it. And Joe and I worked really closely on this, right? The ability to run containers right is someone launches down this because it is magical. What could be done with deploying applications? Using a container technology, we built the capabilities and the tools directly into rural in order to be able to build and deploy, leveraging things like pod man directly into rural. And that's exactly so, folks. Everyone who has a real subscription today can start on their container journey, start to build and deploy that, and then we work to help those skills then be transferrable as you movinto open shift in kubernetes and orchestration. So, you know, we work very closely to make sure that the skills building can be done directly on rail and then transfer into open shift. Because, as Joe said, at the end of the day, it's just a different way to deploy. Lennox, >>You guys are doing some good work. Keep it up. And thanks so much for coming back in. The Cube is great to talk to you today. >>Good to see you, Dave. >>Yes, Thank you. >>All right. Thank you for watching everybody. The cubes coverage of Cuba con en a continues right after this.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE! With digital coverage of AnsibleFest 2020, brought to you by Red Hat. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AnsibleFest 2020. We're not face-to-face this year, we're in virtual remote mode. This is theCUBE virtual and obviously it's AnsibleFest 2020 virtual. We've got a great panel of experts and leaders at Red Hat and Ansible. I want to introduce them. Dave Lindquist, general manager and vice president of engineering of hybrid cloud management at Red Hat. Joe Fernandes, vice president and general manager of the Core Cloud platforms at Red Hat. And Tom Anderson, vice President at Red Hat, Ansible Automation Platform, the big news and feature of this event. Tom, great to see you, Joe and David, thanks for coming on. >> Great to be here. >> Every year I love talking about Red Hat because I remember going back a few years ago, Arvind from IBM was on at Red Hat Summit in San Francisco, and you can see the twinkle in his eye. This was three, four years ago. Cloud native was really gearing up and now it's kind of mainstream. Last year at AnsibleFest, all the buzz was collaboration, collections, and you can start to see that integration piece kicking in, and this year at the event, the big story is the same. More collections, more integrations, a lot of collaboration around code. Content equals code. So it really points to the trend with Kubernetes of multi-cloud, multi-cluster. So the first question for you guys is, why would anyone want to deploy multiple clusters simultaneously and why is multi-cluster such a big deal? Tom, we'll start with you. >> Great, okay, yeah. So why is multi-cluster such a big deal? Basically, Kubernetes and our OpenShift container platform have now become a strategic part of our customers' environments, of their infrastructure for building and deploying cloud native applications on. And as becoming a strategic part of that, when you're deploying production applications you're going to need all kinds of things like scale out, redundancy, cloud location for access to different cloud provider locations for application requirements and whatnot. So there are a bunch of requirements for why customers would deploy OpenShift in a multi-cluster way. And maybe I'll turn it over to Joe Fernandes a little bit 'cause he's got a lot of background on the OpenShift side of this. >> Joe, what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, thanks, Tom. Yeah, so I mean, as Tom mentions, a number of reasons why customers may deploy or need to deploy more than one Kubernetes cluster. So within a cluster, you can certainly have multiple applications, multiple developers, multiple teams work, but as you start to scale your usage you may want additional clusters. It could be because you want to separate your production environments from your dev and test environments. It could be for capacity, right? You have more development teams or more production environments than you want to sort of tie to a single cluster. Then you start expanding out into locations, right? Maybe you started in the data center, then you started doing deployments to one public cloud, then to other public clouds, and then that's only going to grow. We see more and more customers deploying multi-cloud strategies. And then the new thing right now that everybody wants to talk to us about is edge, and as you get into edge deployments, now those, the number of clusters could really explode into the hundreds or thousands. And so it all points back to you need a sane way to manage across all these clusters regardless of where they run and regardless of how many you have, and that's really what we've been working on with the Advanced Cluster Management for Kubernetes. >> What's the big draw? What's drawing the customers in with multi-cluster and multi-cloud? Obviously, the multi-cloud makes a lot of sense, you have multiple clouds. Sounds easier just saying it than doing it. But what is it about multi-cluster and multi-cloud that's drawing customers and people into this concept? >> Yes, I can start. I think what's drawing customers in is the need, the desire to have sort of a common abstraction for the applications that's consistent regardless of where they happen to run, right? So making sure that the developers don't have to worry about what infrastructure the applications are landing on, and they have that consistent experience that it's, abstracts their applications away from that infrastructure. So that gives the developers more flexibility, but it's also about flexibility and agility for those infrastructure owners, right, because they too want to make decisions on where stuff runs. Not because they're particularly tied to an infrastructure, but based on things like cost or security or other concerns. And so these are all drivers for multi-cluster and multi-cloud strategies and I think our hybrid cloud strategy at Red Hat really hits the mark to address those needs. >> Well, you guys had great performance. We've been following the past few years just the OpenShift and beyond, kind of the whole Red Hat, and Ansible specifically too, is doing real well in the marketplace so congratulations. David, I want to ask you about the management piece. This comes up over and over again. It's all good having the abstraction layer, you got all kinds of new sets of services, but multi-cluster management is not, (laughs) is not trivial. There's challenges for ops and automation teams. Could you share your perspective on how you guys are looking at the multi-cluster management? >> Sure, sure. The first thing we saw, and this kind of follows on the points that Joe and Tom are making, is that as customers start embracing the development with containers and leveraging Kubernetes, you start finding that they're putting up clusters across their data centers, across cloud, to support different parts of the life cycle of development, or supporting their own production environment or distributed workloads across clouds, across the data centers. And so the challenges that operations and management run into, and security in particular, is how do you start managing the clusters, their life cycle. It's easy to put 'em up, to provision 'em quickly, but how do you update and upgrade those? How do you make sure they're compliant with your various regulatory compliance like PCI, HIPAA, or the various federal standards? How do you make sure that compliance is adhered to across, and security across those clusters, as well as the applications themselves? How do you manage the applications through their life cycle? How do you have deployment policies? So the challenges for ops and automation and security are to have a consistent policy-driven way to take care of the clusters across these hybrid environments, and making sure they adhere to the compliance and security of the enterprise. >> Tom, multi-cluster deployments is a big part of this integration. We heard a little bit, obviously, compliance and governance is huge. IT's been living this world of policies and governance, but when we start moving fast into these new cutting edge services that are providing a lot of value, integration into existing IT infrastructure is important with clusters. How do you view that because this is where I think maybe collections are other things are, is this an indicator of what's happening? Can you give your thoughts on the customers out there who want to do multiple clusters for all the benefits, but then go, "Oh, I got to integrate it into existing IT infrastructure"? >> Yeah, absolutely. So that's what's happening right now. As Kubernetes and as OpenShift has become a strategic platform for our customers, the idea of, I'm going to say, kind of normalizing the operations of that platform as part of a greater IT ecosystem has become a challenge for them. And for the most part, they've already automated security, network, provisioning, app deployment, application updates, using the Ansible Automation Platform, and so it only makes sense that as Kubernetes and as OpenShift becomes a strategic platform for them, they want to use that same language, that same tool set, that same automation fabric, if you will, to integrate the applications that are running on OpenShift with the rest of the environment. So, for example, when I add a new node to a cluster or more capacity to a cluster or to clusters, I probably want to update my systems of record, right? My CMDBs or my ITSM systems. When I deploy a new app or make an update to an app on a cluster or across clusters, I'm probably going to want to update my load balancer to be able to direct traffic correctly to that, and that load balancer probably isn't running, my enterprise load balancer is kind of platform independent, so I'd need to be able to update that load balancer to properly direct traffic. Well, IT has already automated that function using Ansible. So by creating the collections that we have created for OpenShift and for Kubernetes, it makes it much easier for our customers to be able to just plug that in and adapt that to their existing automation infrastructure. So now it just becomes part of their overall IT environment. >> So just a follow-up real quick, if you don't mind. What are some of the challenges you're hearing from your customers around containerization and that growing space? I just talked to the IDC research analyst earlier at another virtual CUBE session where she says, roughly their estimate is 5 to 10% of enterprises are containerized, which is huge growth opportunities. The headroom in containers is massive, so what are some of the challenges? Is it easy to get started? This seems to be a nice opportunity for you guys. What's your take on that? >> Yeah, I think that the way of looking at it with all that growth space, it's also the speed at which Kubernetes adoption and containerized application adoption is happening. And so, IT organizations are having to respond faster than they ever have before as this environment grows, and it is a multi-cloud environment. They have Kubernetes, OpenShift running on-prem, in the cloud, multiple data centers, as both Joe and Dave have said, and it becomes critical that they automate that correctly and accurately to ensure security, consistency, performance, availability. All of the other things that drive the requirement for automation standardization, all of those things that drive the requirements for automation are applicable to Kubernetes environments and containerized environments as well except they're moving and expanding faster, so teams have to respond quicker to the need. >> Joe, what's your take on this? I mean, to me, I'm the glass half full. I think I've seen containers be great and that maybe I'm looking at the early adopters, but those numbers seem a little bit low to me. What does that mean to you? More people are now getting up to speed. Is it a tipping point? It just seems a little bit low, and David, if you want to comment too, I think this an important number there. Joe, what's your take? >> Yeah, I mean, I think the rate represents an opportunity, but I see the growth as having been tremendous even in just the first few years. But to get to that broader market we did continue making it easier for customers to bring their applications to this new environment, to ride on existing infrastructure, and ultimately for our customers that means an evolution, right? An evolution of how they are going to manage those applications, how they're going to build and deploy them. And so with the integration of OpenShift and our advanced container management platforms with Ansible we can bring that automation to the mix to sort of tie those together, right? So to tie in the existing compute infrastructure, to tie in storage and networking and configure those as needed. And then as Tom mentioned, all those other systems, whether it's an IT service management system, something like a ServiceNow or other ticketing systems or other enterprise systems that exist that you just can't ignore. Because the more you try to go against the grain and do something different, the even harder it'll be. So we need to help customers evolve to take advantage of cloud and cloud native approaches, and the solutions that we're bringing to market are all about enterprise Kubernetes, enterprise container platforms. The combination of those technologies with something like Ansible really helps pave the path for the next phase of growth that we're expecting. >> So, ready for prime time right now. >> Right. >> David, your thoughts real quick on this. Containerization upside. >> Yeah, real quick, the development organizations, development teams, have picked up on containers very rapidly. Everybody is leveraging containers when they develop new applications or modernize the existing applications. So what we found is that a lot of the folks that pushed out very quickly, some greenfield apps, that's the 5, 10, 15, 20% that you're seeing occur. What started getting complex is how you really scale this to your enterprise. How do you really run this at scale from management operations and security perspective? OpenShift is critical, that gives a consistent platform across the hybrid cloud environments. What we're doing with ACM and the Advanced Cluster Management brings in the security and compliance. And what you'll see through AnsibleFest, what we're doing with Ansible is then, how do we then hook these environments right into all the existing IT environments? That's, to me, what's critical to really bring this to scale to the enterprise. >> Yeah, I think this, to me, the number points to exactly what you guys said. Ready for prime time, scale's there, and the demand's there. And I think, Tom and Joe, I want to ask you specifically the relationship between OpenShift and Ansible, but before that, I remember, forget what year it was, we were doing a CUBE event at, I think it might've been OpenStack, going back to the day, but I remember OpenShift and it was a moment where OpenShift adopted containers and then next year Kubernetes. And I remember talking to the team, them saying, "This is going to be a big bet for OpenShift." Looks like it was a good bet. (laughs) It paid out real well, congratulations. And it was good, you guys stayed the course. But you made it easier, and one of the things was is that the complaint at the time was they didn't want Kubernetes to be the next Hadoop. Easy to use but gets out of control. Not that I meant they're comparable, but Hadoop had that problem of it was easy open source but then it was hard to manage. So OpenShift really took advantage of that. You guys, I think, did a good job on that. But now you got Ansible winning the game on developers, on easy to deploy, so as that scales up, automation's there. So I'd like to hear you guys talk about the connection between OpenShift and Ansible and how that expands the scope of what both products can do for customers. >> Yeah, maybe I'll give it a shot first and then let Joe go after me, which is, look, here's what we have, is we have lots and lots and lots of customers, Red Hat customers that are OpenShift users and that are Ansible users, right? So we have this two large pools. They also represent two very large and vibrant open source community projects. The Ansible project and the Kubernetes project are two hugely popular, vibrant communities, and so it just made sense to kind of be a catalyst in those communities, to bring those two things together, to work together, to the benefit of our customers and to kind of capture the innovation that's going on upstream in the communities. So we decided to get really kind of serious about the integration of these two platforms and integrated Ansible in a native way on Kubernetes so that OpenShift and Kubernetes operators, as well as application developers, could take advantage of that integration without having to learn something new or foreign in order to be able to do it. So it was a native integration using operators, which is the right way to integrate with the Kubernetes platform, with OpenShift in particular. And so that's the way we kind of brought it together to the benefit of our customers. Our customers are, like I said, normalizing the operations of OpenShift as a strategic part of their infrastructure, deploying production applications, and want to be able to tie that into their other systems and other parts of their infrastructure, both from an app deployment process as well as from an infrastructure deployment and management process. So it only made sense that it actually, our customers have been asking us for this and talking to us about this, so it only kind of made perfect sense to kind of get out there and do that, get the communities together innovating, and then take that innovation out for our customer. >> Joe. >> Yeah, the only thing I'd add to that, there's really two specific personas at play here, right? When you think of, there's the IT operations and infrastructure teams. They own those clusters, the provisioning, the configuration, the management of those clusters. And with ACM, with Advanced Cluster Management for Kubernetes, we have now an interface that they can use to see and manage the life cycle of all their clusters. So through that we can integrate Ansible as another automation tool in their portfolio to do things that need to happen when those clusters first get configured or when those clusters get updated and so forth. So if they need to update an ITSM system or configure a network or do whatever it needs to, you have Ansible automation scripts that can be plugged in at the appropriate time in that cluster's life cycle to do that. On the other side, you have the developer and DevOps teams that are consumers of these platforms, right? And what they care about is the applications that they're building, but there's a lot that goes into building it, right? There's the source code management systems, there's the CI systems, the CD systems, there's the test environments and stage and prod. And so there's a lot of moving parts, and again, and then there's the services themselves that they're configuring so you have, or building, not configuring, you have Ansible again ready to sort of take on some of those tasks, automation tasks that go beyond what Kubernetes is focused on or what you're trying to do with OpenShift. And again, doing it at the appropriate time in the life cycle, all tied in through Advanced Cluster Management which can actually see out to all those clusters and be in that sort of application deployment workflow across those clusters. So those are sort of some of the specific areas and how they pertain to those specific personas that are driving the activity. >> What's interesting, this automation piece really is key across multiple environments, and we've heard that from some of your customers. 'Cause you got now private clouds out there, you got large scale. But, Dave, I want to ask you, what makes Advanced Cluster Management a natural fit with OpenShift and Ansible? What's your take? >> Yeah, good question, John. First, ACM is purpose-built for the Kubernetes environment. It's a cloud native management system, and as we said earlier, we really focused on managing the cluster life cycles, managing the security compliance, and managing applications deployed into these environments. So it was a very natural extension of OpenShift, to be able to manage OpenShift, multiple clusters of OpenShift in hybrid environments. Within your data center, across data centers, across clouds, and the combination. So, very natural fit with OpenShift. As we've been all talking about, as we looked at how did we then bring OpenShift and these resources closer through automation to many of the other parts of your IT environment, that made it natural from ACM to call out into the playbooks of Ansible. So just a simple example, and I think we circled around this a few times. You're deploying a cluster or you're deploying, say, an application to that cluster. You need to configure that into a firewall. Maybe configure it into a load balancer. Maybe register it with a service management system. That, all those calls, they come out through policy from ACM over into Ansible to take advantage of the wealth of playbooks that are available in Ansible to perform those operations. Whether it's security, network, service management, storage, et cetera. >> Real quick follow-up for you is, how has bringing your ACM team and product into Red Hat changed the scope and approach of what you're trying to do? >> Yeah, well, let me say first of all it's been a great experience bringing the team into Red Hat. The environment, the open culture, it's really been invigorating for the whole team. Also, getting much, much closer into the open communities and open sourcing ACM and doing development in the open has really brought us closer really to users, the ecosystem, the communities, accelerating our delivery quality, as well as really getting much more closer insights, getting insights into what's happening in the community, what's happening with the users. So it's really, it's been a great experience all the way around. >> Joe and Tom, quick comment, what do you think people should pay attention to this year at AnsibleFest 2020? What's the big story? Obviously we're in a pandemic. We're going to come out of the pandemic. People want to have a growth strategy that has the right projects on the right rails. They want to either maybe downplay some of the projects that maybe not be a fit, that were exposed during the pandemic. Best practices that are emerging, shifting left for security is one. You're seeing remote workers. People have kind of had a wake-up call on cloud native being relevant for the modern app. Now they're running as fast as they can to build the infrastructure, and guess what? People are not actually in the workplaces. The workforce, the workplace has all changed. Can you guys share your expertise over the years on what is the best practice and approach to take? Because the clock's ticking. >> Yeah, from my perspective and from an Ansible perspective here, we had always been about kind of automate everything, right? Automate every task that is automatable, right? A repeatable task, automate it. Repeatable task, automate it. And over the past couple of years we've really been focused on automation across teams by using Ansible content, the actual automation code, if you will, itself to bring teams together and to cross teams and cross functions. So not just focused on what a network operations person or a network engineer needs to do in their day-to-day job, but connect that to what a security operations person is doing day-to-day in their job in terms of threat detection and intrusion response, or intrusion detection and threat response, and connecting those two teams together via automation to make both of them more responsive and more effective. So we've been on this bandwagon for the past couple of years around Ansible content, and now Ansible collections and Automation Hub, to try and accelerate the way these teams can collaborate together. The pandemic and the pressures that put on the system with remote users and having to do things in a different way only exacerbated, it only kind of enhanced the requirement for that collaboration, that automation across teams. So in a lot of ways, the past six, seven months, both for our Ansible business as well as for the way our customers have been using the technology, has really been an accelerator for that kind of cross-team collaboration, our subscription business, and our Ansible consumption. >> Yeah, well, I said it last year in-person when we were in Atlanta for AnsibleFest 2019, a platform approach is a great way to go. You start out as a tool, you become a platform. You guys are doin' the work over there. I really appreciate it and I want to call that out 'cause I think it's worth calling out. Joe, cloud platforms. Cloud is certainly an enabler. Red Hat and OpenShift has been a great success and can, only has got more work to do. People still got to build out these platforms, and you're seeing private cloud not going away. I mean, we just had a conversation at OpenStack and you guys got customers with a lot of private cloud everywhere. (laughs) So you got private, you got hybrid, you got multi, and you got public. It's pretty crazy. What's your thoughts on what people should take away from AnsibleFest and then going forward post-pandemic? >> Yeah, so, first Tom hit on a number of key points there, right? COVID-19 and everything going on in the world has really just accelerated a lot of these transformations that were already in the works at many of our enterprise customer accounts, right? And now when we're all working remotely, we're all meeting virtually, we're educating our children remotely, it just exacerbates the need to scale our networks, to extend security out to remote workforces, and to do all of these things at much larger scales than we ever envisioned before, and you can't do that without automation. And I would argue, without taking advantage of some of these modern cloud native platforms and cloud native development approaches. And we always say Red Hat's been a big proponent of hybrid cloud, of our open hybrid cloud strategy. We've been talking about that for years, and what we always say is even if that's a strategy that you aren't specifically looking for, it's something that, everybody ends up there, right? Because nobody's running everything in the data center anymore, but as they move out to public cloud they're not completely shutting those data centers off either. As they expand their consumption of public cloud, they tend to start exploring multi-cloud strategies, and now that hybrid cloud is extending out to the edge. So the hybrid cloud is sort of where everybody is, right? And the ability to sort of manage consistently, to run consistently across all those environments, to be able to secure all those environments and scale those environments, and that's what we're all about here at Red Hat and that's sort of the key to our open hybrid cloud strategy and what we're really trying to do with our entire portfolio. >> Awesome, David, final word. We're in a systems world now. The cloud is one big distributed computer. We got the edge, we heard that. Developers just want to code, they want infrastructure as code, you guys got to help 'em get there. What's your take on the importance of AnsibleFest and this systems world we live in? >> Well, there's probably not a more critical time. We've all been saying this and seeing this the last 10 months now. The transformation digitally that's been going on for years, the development transformations, it's all hit a fever pitch. It's been accelerated through COVID. In particular, how quickly can I adjust to a digital transformation? How quickly can I adjust my business processes? How quickly can I really become a very agile DevOps SRE organization? That is so critical. So at AnsibleFest what we're doing is bringing together platforms with automation with the ability to manage it at scale with security. That's what's going on from Red Hat in a open environment, open world, with communities and huge ecosystems. That, to me, is the critical rallying points, and really necessary to drive this accelerated transformation. >> Yeah, and again, open source continues to power it. One thing I'm impressed with is this concept of content, not content as in a video, but content as code. It's collaboration. It's what people are sharing their playbooks and they're sharing their, are opening things up. I think there's going to be a whole 'nother level of developer collaboration that's going to emerge and you guys are on the front end of all of this. I think it's going to be pretty powerful. I don't think yet clearly understood yet by most folks, but when you start seeing the automation benefits, Tom, I'm sure your team will be like, "Yeah, see, automation platform." Thank you so much for coming on, appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thanks a lot. >> Thanks. >> I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, hosting theCUBE virtual for AnsibleFest 2020 virtual. Thanks for watching. (relaxing music)

>> From around the globe, it's the CUBE with digital coverage of Red Hat Summit 2020 brought to you by Red Hat. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is the CUBE's coverage of a Red Hat Summit 2020 happening digitally. We're connecting with Red Hat executives, thought leaders, practitioners, wherever they are around the globe, bringing them remotely into this online event. Happy to welcome back to the program, Joe Fernandez, who's the Vice President and General Manager, of Core Cloud Platforms with Red Hat. Joe, thanks so much for joining us. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. Glad to be here. >> All right, so, Joe, you know, Cloud, of course, has been a conversation we've been having for a lot of years. When I went to Red Hat Summit last year, when I went to IBM, I think last year, there was discussion of moving from kind of chapter one, if you will, to chapter two. Some of the labels that we put on things back in the early days, like Hybrid Cloud and Multicloud, they're coming into a little bit clearer picture. So, let's just give a high level, what you're seeing from your customers when they talk about Hybrid and Multicloud environment? What does that mean to your customers? And therefore, how is Red Hat meeting them where they are? >> Yeah, sure. So, Red Hat obviously, serves an enterprise customer base. And what we've seen in that customer base, really since the start and it's really informed our strategy, is the fact that all their applications aren't going to run in one place, right? So they're really employing a hybrid class strategy, a Hybrid and Multicloud strategy, that spans from their data centers out to a public cloud, typically then out to multiple public clouds as their cloud investments grow, as they move more applications. And now, even out to the edge for many of those customers. So that's the newest footprint that we're getting asked about. So really we think of that as the open hybrid cloud. And you know, our goal is really to provide a consistent platform for applications regardless of where they run across all those environments. >> Yeah. Let's get down a second on that because we've had consistency for quite a while. You look at the largest cloud provider out there, they said, hybrid environment, will give you the exact same hardware that we're running in the public cloud of your bet. You know, that in your environment. Of course, Red Hat's a software company. You've lived across lots of platforms. We're going to Red Hat's entire existence. So, you know, where is that consistency needed? How do you, well, think about how Red Hat does things? Maybe the same and a little different than some of the other players that are then, positioning and even repositioning their hybrid story over the last year or so. >> Yeah. So, we're really excited to see a lot of folks in the industry, including all the major public cloud providers are now talking about Hybrid and talking about these types of initiatives that we've been talking about for quite some time. But yeah, it's a little bit different when we talk about Hybrid Cloud, when we talk about Multicloud, we're talking about being able to run not just in one public cloud and then in a non-premise clients that mirrors that cloud. We're really talking about being able to run across multiple clouds. So having that consistency across, running in, say Amazon to Azure to Google, and then carrying that into your on-premise environments, whether that's on Bare Metal, on VMware, on OpenStack, and then, like I said, out out to the edge, right? So that consistency is important for people who are concerned about how their applications are going to operate in these different environments. Because otherwise, they'd have to manage those differences themselves. I'm speaking as part of Red Hat, right? This is what the company was built on, right? In 20 years ago, it was all about Linux bringing consistency for enterprise applications running across x86 hardware, right? So regardless of who your OEM vendor was, as long as you're building to the x86 standard and leveraging Linux as a base, Red Hat Enterprise Linux became that same consistent operating environment for applications, which is important for our software vendors, but also more importantly for customers themselves as they yep those apps into production. >> Yeah, I guess, you know, last question I have for kind of just the landscape out there. We've been talking for a number of years. When you talk to practitioners, they don't get caught up in the labels that we use in the industry. Do they have a cloud strategy? Yes, most companies have a cloud strategy, and if you ask them is their cloud strategy same today, as it was a quarter ago or a year ago, they say, of course not. Everything's changed. We know in today's day and age, what I was doing a month ago is probably very different from what I am doing today. So, I know you've got a survey that was done of enterprise users. I saw it when it came out a month ago. And, you know, some good data in there. So, you know, where are we? And what data do you have to share with us on kind of the customer adoption with (mumbles). >> Yeah, so I think, you know, we put out a survey not too long ago and we started as, I think, over 60% of customers were adopting a hybrid cloud strategy exactly as I described. Thinking about their applications in terms of, in an environment that spans multiple cloud infrastructures, as well as on-premise footprints. And then, you know, going beyond that, we think that number will grow based on what we saw in that survey. That just mirrors the conversations that I've had with customers, that many of us here at Red Hat have been having with those same customers over the years. Because everybody's in a different spot in terms of their transformation efforts, in terms of their adoption of cloud technologies and what it means for their business. So we need to meet customers where they're at, understand that everybody's at a different spot and then make sure that we can help them make that transition. And it's really an evolution, as opposed to , I think, some people in the past might've thought of as a revolution where all the data centers are going to shut down and everything's going to move all at once. And so helping customers evolve. And that transition is really what Red Hat is all about. >> Yeah. And, so often, Joe, when I talk to some of the vendors out there, when you talk about Hybrid, you talk about Multicloud, it's talking about something you mentioned, it's a box, it's a place, it's, you know, the infrastructure discussion. But when I've been having conversations with a lot of your peers of these interviews for Red Hat Summit. We know that, it's the organization and it's the applications that are hugely important as these changes go and happen. So talk a little bit about that. What's happening to the organization? How are you helping the infrastructure team keep up and the app dev team move forward? >> Yeah, so first, I'll start with, that on the technology side, right? One of the things that that has enabled this type of consistency and portability has been sort of the advent of Linux containers as a standard packaging format that can span across all these different (mumbles), right? So we know that Linux runs in all these different footprints and Linux containers, as a portable packaging format, enables that. And then Kubernetes enables customers to orchestrate containers at scale. So that's really what OpenShift is focused on, is delivering an enterprise Kubernetes platform. Again, spanning all these environments that leverages container-based packaging, provides enterprise Kubernetes orchestration and management, to manage in all those environments. What that then also does on the people front is bring infrastructure and operations teams together, right? Because Kubernetes containers represents the agility for both sides, right? Or application developers, it represents the ability to pay their application and all their dependencies. And know that when they run it in one environment, it will be consistent with how it runs in other environments. So eliminating that problem of, works on my machine, but it doesn't work, you know, in prod or what have you. So it brings consistency for developers. Infrastructure teams, it gives them the ability to basically make decisions around where the best places to run these applications without having to think about that from a technology perspective, but really from things that should matter more, like cost and convenience to customers and performance and so forth. So, I think we see those teams coming together. That being said, it is an evolution in people and process and culture. So we've done a lot of work. We launched a global transformation office. We had previously launched a Red Hat open innovation labs and have done a lot of work with our consulting services and our partners as well, to help with, sort of, people in process evolutions that need to occur to adopt these types of technologies as well as, to move towards a more cloud native approach. >> All right. So Joe, what one of the announcements that made it the show, it is talking about how OpenShift is working with virtualization. So, I think back to the earliest container days, there was a discussion of, "oh, you know, Docker and containers, "it kills VM." Or you know, Cloud of course. Some Cloud services run on VMs, other run on containers, they're serverless. So there's a lot of confusion out there as to. >> Yep. >> What happened, we know in IT, no technology ever dies, everything's always additive. It's figuring out the right solutions and the right bet. So, help us understand what Red Hat is doing when it comes to virtualization in OpenShift and Kubernetes and, how is your approach different than some of what we've already seen in the marketplace? >> Yeah, so definitely we've seen just explosive adoption of containers technology, right? Which has driven the OpenShift business and Red Hat's business overall. So, we expect that to continue, right? More applications moving towards that container-based, packaging and deployment model and leveraging Kubernetes and OpenShift to manage those environments. That being said, as you mentioned, virtualization has been around for a really long time, right? And, predominantly, most applications, today, are running virtualized. And so some of them have made the transition to containers or were built a container native from the start. But many more are still running in VM based environments and may never make that switch. So, what we were looking at is, how do we manage this sort of hybrid environment from the application perspective where you have some applications running in containers, other applications running in VMs? We have platforms like Red Hat, OpenStack, Red Hat Virtualization that leveraged the KVM hypervisor and Red Hat Enterprise Linux to serve apps running in a VM based environment. What we did with Kubernetes is, instead, how could we innovate to have convergence on the orchestration and management fund? And we leveraged the fact that, KVM, you know, a chosen hypervisor, is actually a Linux process that can itself be containerized. And so by running the hypervisor in a container, we can then span VMs that could be managed on that same platform as the containers run. So what you have in OpenShift Virtualization is the ability to use Kubernetes to manage containerized workloads, as well as, standard VM based workloads. And these are full VMs. These aren't micro VMs or, you know, things like Firecracker Kata Container. These are standard VMs that could be, well, Windows guests or Linux guests, running inside those VMs. And so it helps you basically, manage that type of environment where you may be moving to containers and more cloud native approach, but those containers need to interact or work with applications that are still in a VM based deployment environment. And we think it's really exciting, we've demoed it at the last Red Hat Summit. We're going to talk about it even more here, in terms of how we're going to bring those products to market and enable customers. >> Okay, yeah, Joe, let me make sure I understand this because as you said, it is a different approach. So, number one, if I'm moving towards a (mumbles) management solution, this is going to fit natively into what I'm doing. It's not taking some of my traditional management tools and saying, "oh, I also get some visibility containers." There's more, you know, here's my Kubernetes solution. And just some of those containers happen to be virtualized. Did I get that piece right? >> Yeah, I think it's more like... so we know that Kubernetes is going to be in in the environment because we know that, yeah, people are moving application workloads to standard Linux containers. But we also know that virtual machines are going to still exist in that environment. So you can think about it as, how would we enable Kubernetes to manage a virtual machine in the same way that it manages a Linux container? And, what we do there, is we actually, put the VM inside the container, right? So because the VM, specifically with (mumbles) is just a Linux process, and that's what a Linux container is. It's a Linux process, right? So you can run the hypervisor, span the virtual machines, inside of containers. But those virtual machines, are just like any other VM that would run in OpenStack or Red Hat Virtualization or what have you. And you could, vSphere for example. So those are traditional virtual machines, that are now being managed in a Kubernetes environment. And what we're seeing is sort of, this evolution of Kubernetes to take on these new types of workloads. VMs is just one example, of something that you can now manage with Kubernetes. >> Okay. And, help me understand what this means to really the app dev in my application portfolio. Because you know, the original promise of virtualization was, I can just stick my application in a VM and I never need to think about it ever again. And well, that was super helpful when windows NT was going end of life. In 2020, we do find that most companies do want to update their applications, and they are talking about, do I refactor them? Do I make them microservices architecture? I don't want to have that iceberg of an application that I'm just dragging along slowly into the new world. So. >> Yeah. >> What is this virtualization integration with Kubernetes? You mean for the AppDev and the applications? >> Yeah, sure, so what we see customers doing, what we see the application development team is doing is modernizing a lot of their existing applications, right? So they're taking traditional monolithic applications or end tier, like the applications that may run in a VM based environment and they're moving them towards more of a distributed architecture leveraging microservices based approach. But that doesn't happen all at once either, right? So, oftentimes what you see is your microservices, are still connected to VM based applications. Or maybe you're breaking down a monolithic application. The core is still running in a VM, but some of those business functions have now been carved out and containerized. So, you're going to end up in a hybrid environment from the application perspective in terms of how these applications are packaged, and deployed. The question is, what does that mean for your deployment architecture? Does it mean you always have to run a virtualization platform and a container platform together? That's how it's done today, right? OpenShift and Kubernetes run on top of vSphere, they run on top of Amazon and Azure and Google bands, and on top of OpenStack. But what if you could actually just run Kubernetes directly on Bare Metal and manage those types of workloads? That's really sort of the idea. A whole bunch of virtualization solution was based on is, let's just merge VMs natively with Kubernetes in the same way that we manage containers. And then, it can facilitate for the application developer. This evolution of apps that are running in one environment towards apps that are running essentially, in a hybrid environment from how they're packaged and deployed. >> Yeah, absolutely, something I've been hearing for the last year or so, that hybrid deployment, pulling apart application, sometimes it's even, the core piece as you said, is on premises and then I might have some of the more transactional pieces happening in the public cloud. So really interesting. So, how long has Red Hat been working on this? My (mumbles), something, you know, I'm familiar with in the CNCF. I believe it has been around for a couple of years. >> Yeah. >> So talk to us about just kind of how long it took to get here and, fully support stateful applications now. What's the overall roadmap look like? >> Yeah, so, so (mumbles) as a open source project was launched more than two years ago now. As you know, Red Hat really drives all of our development upstream in the open source community. So we launched (mumbles) project. We've been collaborating with other vendors and even customers on that. But then, you know, over time we then decided, how do we bring these technologies to market, which technologies make sense to bring the market? So, (mumbles) is the open source project. OpenShift and OpenShift Virtualization, which is what this feature is referred to commercially, is the product that then we would ship and support for running this in production environments. The capabilities, right. So, I think, those have been evolving as well. So, virtual machines have a specific requirements in terms of not only how they're deployed and managed, but how they connect to storage, how they connect networking, how do you do things like fencing and all sorts of live migration and that type of thing. We've been building out those types of capabilities. They're certainly still more to do there. But it's something that we're really excited about, not just from the perspective of running VMs, but just even more broadly from the perspective of how Kubernetes is expanding to take on new workloads, right? Because Kubernetes has moved far beyond just running, cloud native applications, today, you can run stateful services in containers. You can run things like AI and machine learning and analytics and IoT type services. But it hasn't come for free, right? This has come through a lot of hard work in the Kubernetes community, in the various associated communities, the container communities, communities like (mumbles). But it's all kind of trying to leverage that same automation, that same platform to just do more things. The cool thing is, it'll not just be Red Hat talking about it, but you'll see that from a lot of customers that are doing sessions at our summit this year and beyond. Talking about how, what it means to them. >> Yeah, that's great. Always love hearing the practitioner viewpoint. All right, Joe, I want to give you the final word when it comes to this whole space things kind of move pretty fast, but also we remember it when we first saw it. So, tell us what the customers who were kind of walking away from Red Hat Summit 2020 should be looking at and understanding that they might not have thought about if they were looking at Kubernetes, a year or two ago? >> Yeah, I think a couple of things. One is, yeah, Kubernetes and this whole container ecosystem is continuing to evolve, continuing to add capabilities and continue to expand the types of workloads, that it can run. Red Hat is right in the center of it. It's all happening in open source. Red Hat as a leading contributor to Kubernetes and open source in general, is driving a lot of this innovation. We're working with some great customers and partners, other vendors, who are working side by side with us as well. And I think the most important thing is we understand that it's an evolution for customers, right? So this evolution towards moving applications to the public cloud, adopting a hybrid cloud approach. This evolution in terms of expanding the types of workloads, and how you run and manage them. And that approach is something that we've always helped customers do and we're doing that today as they move out towards embracing a cloud native. >> All right, well, Joe Fernandez, thank you so much for the updates. Congratulations on the launch of OpenShift Virtualization. I definitely look forward to talking to some the customers in finding out that helping them along their hybrid cloud journey. All right. Lots more coverage from the CUBE at Red Hat Summit. I'm Stu Miniman ,and thank you for watching the CUBE.