>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware, and its ecosystem partners. (upbeat music) >> Hello everyone, welcome back to The Cube's three day coverage of VM World 2017. This is day two. I'm John Furrier, your host, with Wikibon analysts Peter Burris and Stu Miniman. Peter, head of research, Wikibon.com, Stu Miniman, analyst. Guys, and cohost too on stage two, we have two sets. Day one and we've got two more days, Stu. 27 videos, a lot of content, keynote is up. Gelsinger's on stage with Mike O'Dell. Your thoughts? >> Yes, so, John, first of all, last year, you know, we've been doing this show for a lot of years. Last year, the energy was a little off, you know? We talked about on the intro, there's rumors about management change, everything like that? Energy's up. The attendance isn't up much, but, there's a lot of good discussions. People are digging into, kind of this whole, hybrid cloud, multi-cloud world. The keynote this morning, they've got, you know, folks from Google Cloud, up on stage. It's supposed to be the biggest announcement in the platform, in the last four years. I think we'll dig into that some. I'm not sure if it's the biggest announcement. >> Was there an applause? >> There was actually a bigger applause when Andy Jassy got on stage yesterday, than there was when they announced that, you know, VMware and Pivotal are now part of the Cloud Native Container Foundation, so, you know. CNCF, you know, three weeks, a few weeks ago, Amazon joined the CNCF, Microsoft part of the CNCF. Good step. Cubernetti's absolutely hugely important. VM and Pivotal, they'll want to ride that wave, participate in that wave, but, I'm not sure that they're, you know, that the leading edge of it, I like NSX's plugging into it, they're starting to figure out all of those internetworking pieces. But it's not the one I think, you know, we'll come a year from now and say oh, jeez, remember when they announced PKS, That's the thing that really changed the landscape. >> Yeah, I think the Google announcement was a little bit, seemed desperate to me, although very important, I said it's more of a long game on my tweet stream. But I think they try to force that a little bit. Certainly, I personally don't think it was a good move for them to do that at this stage and try to hype it up given the impact that Jassy had. And also Jassy's jab, a little bit, at some of these optical deals, we used to call them Barney deals, named after the cartoon. Barney, you know, they love each other, but no real deal there. Jassy, he's hinting that most of these cloud deals are optical, not a lot of meat behind it, unlike their deal. >> You know, I'm going to be the contrarian in this one, guys. I'm not going to say it's the most important infrastructure deal in the last four years. I think that's very true, Stu. But I will say this: our research when the AWS VMware deal was announced last October, was that it was an important deal, and it was going to have a material impact on the industry. Because it promised a way for a lot of VM customers to get to the cloud. And now we're seeing that happen. But we also observed that it became pretty clear, it was kind of obvious, that AWS had a lot to gain in that. And VMware was, I don't want to say desperate, but VMware was holding on and trying to remain relevant as we go through these transitions. I think a great thing about this conference is that VMware is demonstrating, is transforming. But think about this Google deal. Who gets the most out of this deal? >> John: VMware. >> VMware, but Google needs this really bad. Google really needs that enterprise presence. And VMware is in a great position relative to the Google deal. So VMware has not got a couple of companies that it can kind of-- >> You're shaking your head. >> Yeah, so here's the thing I'd say: while Google Cloud is standing up there, this is not VMware saying use Google Cloud. This is Pivotal and VMware saying we're fully integrated with Cooper Netties, which means that if I have Pivotal and VMware using PKS, it is now fully compatible with GKE. But that is very different from what we're seeing with Amazon. I talked to a VMware and Amazon joint customer this morning and he said I've got my data center. We've been using AWS for four years. And my data center guys are kind of slow. VMware and AWS allows them to be agile. They have the operating model. They have the tools. They like to use this. As opposed to Cooper Netties. That changes. You don't talk to a lot of people at VMware that are like, oh yeah, hey, I'm ready for microservices. I'm going to refactor all my applications. VMware, from day one, was like I'm going to take my applications, I want to, without changing a lot of code, move it in there. So, we've been talking for years on this show. You know, where are the developers? Are they here? Cooper Netties, all about the developers. I didn't hear a strong developer push in the announcement this morning. So, that's where I think it's still very different. >> It's a good conversation. I think Pete is right. Google does need this. But here's the nuance that's kind of in this game. It came from the VMware Cloud Native group. So Cloud Native certainly is strategy for VMware to play. VMware doesn't want to have just Amazon. They need to be multicloud. So-- They need to be multicloud, but I don't think that they should be playing the cards. This is a long game. The Cooper Nettiers that you know and I know, it's really difficult. People want to make it simple. There needs to be cross compatibility on, with application workloads. Very strategic, very important. Not a lot of meat on the bone. Okay, they're shipping commercial version of Google. Big deal. >> Most container implementations are running in a virtual machine. They just are. >> John: Yeah, true. >> This is an important deal for users. And that's the most important thing. >> Potential users that are going to be in the evolution of where this is going. To Stu's point, I think that where this connects is, the conversation here is: I'm just trying to get my act together on the on prim true private cloud. >> We're seeing the industry start to reform. So, again, Stu, you're right. It's not the most important thing in four years. But it's not also something to be-- >> It's a strategic enchant. It's very important. >> But it's also got near term implications. That for anyone who's doing container-based development, is running that whole thing inside of VM, and along comes VMware that says, hey you know what, we're going to bring industrial strength to this. It's a good thing. >> It's a good thing. Again, we all have a good conversation. This is a frothy conversation. I love it. Which means it's relevant to you guys out there. I think its timing is interesting. Again, I would have done a strategic play on this one. I would have done a strategic intent. The shipping stuff, okay cool. But you guys are on it. We will be monitoring it. Peter, I've got to ask you the question, and let's kick off Day Two. You guys have been beavering away for two days now here in analyst sessions, meeting all the executives, what's your observation? What's your take away so far? >> Well, the thing that we talked about, we did the wrap up yesterday, and now the analyst day came a couple of things. The first thing I'll say is that: when you pull back the covers of any new VMware initiative, increasingly you find NSX staring back at you. And it didn't used to be that way. So, increasingly, you're finding that NSX is becoming that kind of crown jewel. And that plays into this notion of VMware wanting to be the multicloud orchestrator using NSX as kind of a cross-multicloud technology. The second thing is that it's always interesting to observe how software technology, we talk about software technology in abstraction or independent of hardware. But the two always do move together. And we talked about yesterday about how vSAN has become such an important technology industry, Stu. And the observation we made, and isn't it interesting, that vSAN's importance grew just as people started doing flash-based storage arrays. And so those two things are becoming much more important in the aggregate universe here. And the third thing here is VMware is trying to do more around simplification through the cloud foundation, but they have to make sure it doesn't just look like a new marketecture, a new set of marketing. >> I want to throw some controversy out there. Stu, I heard some hallway conversations all last night, and the theme pretty much was this. I'm kind of paraphrasing multiple conversations. Love the direction, love vSAN, love all this NSX stuff. I do agree NSX is looking like the crown jewel. Clouding over the top. Orchestration is going to be the battleground for middleware. Great, I love that. But now, I'm an operations guy. I have VMware and I've got to go to the cloud in a big way. I've got to manage all this stuff. I have operational stacks merging together that have not been tested into multiple configurations with VMs, hardware stacks, software stacks, jamming together untested. This is a new pain point, and a slow point. We're slowing people down. Stu, do you agree? >> Yeah, really interesting point, because let's look at vSAN and NSX. vSAN, I can hand that to a virtualization admin, and they can get running pretty fast on that. Actually, I have one of the executives from VMware, he's like, we save money for customers really fast. NSX, a little bit more of a longer game. A little bit more complicated. Especially when you start getting into it. This whole interfabric between clouds, this is not an easy button for multicloud or anything like that. But NSX is really cool. John, we've been watching since day one. I mean, I remember when you and I interviewed Martín Cansado right after the acquisition. You know, huge acquisition, and as Pat Gelsinger said in the keynote yesterday, what vsphere was in the last 20 years, NSX will be for the next decade or more. So, absolutely, we kind of understand where the battlegrounds are. The devil's always in the details. >> Is it stable, Stu. Is this stuff stable? >> No, none of it is stable. But we're in the midst of a significant transformation, so we shouldn't expect stability. >> You're implying the outcome for the customers is significantly there to make the investment? >> Stu's right. This isn't plug and play world. There's a lot of work going on and what users are looking for now is who in the technology companies are going to make and sustain the investments to drive simplification. And VMware is in the mix. One of the other things we said last night, John, is that, if you look back, there have been very few technology companies that have successfully made a major transformation. IBM did it in the early 1990s. Microsoft has done it a couple of times. We may be witnessing VMware making a pretty significant transformation here. >> This show's not a dud, that's for sure, no doubt. VMworld and reinvent will probably become the two most important shows in cloud, hands down. Obviously besides from the international stuff-- >> Peter: That's important. >> You know, Microsoft, I'm seeing not a lot of clarity around Microsoft. Google, they're trying to get that cloud event going. Again, it's a great cloud wars going on, guys. So this is going to be crazy. >> Peter: It's starting to take shape. >> Well, you mentioned simplicity. Michael Dell's coming on. One of things I'm going to ask him, and I'd love to get your thoughts on what we should ask him. I'm going to ask him how do you make this shit simple? That ultimately, in the era of all this stuff jamming together, stacks, hardware stacks, software stacks, seamless operational capability, new developers coming on board, edge of the network. >> One of the things, a critique I have for Dell the company, is they want to give you choice. You're going to talk to Michael, and he's going to say Azure Stack, I've got that solution. AWS, VMware's got that solution. We've got the VMware solutions. We've got virtu-stream over here and everything. Customers want opinionated offerings to help them through that. Because, oh my gosh, I figured out the virtualization stuff, and I'm figuring out some of the networking security fees, I've got containers and there's other stuff coming from the future, and oh my God, security is beating me over the head nonstop. And now you want to be a major player in that? Yeah, how can they help customers get in the right swim lanes, help customers get comfortable in the deep end? >> Peter just talked about what I think is kind of key, he just mentioned plug and play. I'll just go a step further. This general purpose computing market is over. Nothing is general purpose anymore. Those things that you need to bolt on, but you have a unique requirement by corporations and enterprises-- >> I'll push on that a second, and I'll give you the question I would ask. If we look at the big picture, the big picture goes like this, the first fifty years of the computing industry were dominated by an OLTP-oriented model of how you use computers. Highly imperative programming. The tool sets were set up that way. Single database manager. You serialize everything from the database manager. That is the model that drove the first 50 years. We're in the middle of something totally different right now. We really don't know what it is. We conceived the peace parts with the coming together. It's going to be more hunks of programming, more declarative, distributed data, we're not going to serialize the same way. We can see what it's going to look like. But it's unclear exactly what shape it's going to take. The question I would ask, and I think it kind of builds on what you said, is what is Dell's commitment to the cloud's experience on 2022? We know what the cloud experience is today. The cloud experience today is defined by Amazon. They've done an absolutely magnificent job. Nobody thought they could do it except for Amazon. And they did it. And they did an absolutely magnificent job of it. But what's the cloud experience of 2022? We say it's going to be true private cloud, hybrid cloud, and a set of methods and a computing model that starts with data and finishes with outcome. What is Michael Dell say it's going to be? >> I was just going to say, Peter, that is The Question you talk about. When we think about the mega-merger of Dell, EMZ, and Vmware, at the end of the day, Michael wants to pull through more servers. But it's that operating model that's going to drive things. So, will VMware really be able to fix their management stack. Peter, when I became an analyst seven years ago, I was like, well anytime I can say back security and management are broken and they still suck, right? And so the question is, five years from now, will we, you know, be able to day hey, VMware is really doing some awesome things, Pivotal is really bringing this together, Dell technology's really front and center to help that experience. >> I was going to ask him who he's voting for, Mayweather or McGregor, in the fight night. >> Mike Tyson, right? >> Put you over to Mike Tyson. All right, serious question to end this. Peter, I know this is something near and dear to your heart, and Stu, at Wikibon, you guys are really, there's a lot of end user conversations, how should end users start preparing themselves. Because Pat Gelsinger's still laying out the narrative of today is the last day, the shortest time, whatever his quote was, it's going to get faster. And to your point of all this work that needs to get done on the investment, the customer environment is going to get crazier and harrier and more complex. What are end user enterprise customers having to do? >> So if I'm a CIO I'm doing three things. The first thing I'm doing is I'm introducing the core principles that are related to Agile. So I'm telling my people, culturally, we're going to me empirical, we're going to use data to make decisions, we're going to be iterative, we're going to cycle, and we're going to be really opportunistic. We're going to be very willing to break down sacred cows. That's the first thing I'm doing. The second things I'm doing is I'm starting to introduce a set of etics that say if we can put it in the public cloud, we will put in in the public cloud. But we have to use iterative, empirical, and opportunistic to recognize that we won't always be able to put it in the public cloud. And we have to be prepared to be able to do stuff on-premise, because we are going to be doing things on-premise. The third thing that I'm going to do, and I think this is really important, is that IT, for the last n number of years, has been focused on taking costs out of the business. David Floyer talks about this a lot, the idea of automation. Well, increasingly IT is going to be asked to find ways to add revenue to the business. That's kind of where a lot of his digital engagement goes. What that boils down to, ultimately, is that the history of working, collaborating, has been based on taking costs out driven by procurement, and this notion of strategic relationships has been kind of a fraud, has been kind of something we just say. So the third thing is: you're going to have to start focusing on what it really means to be strategic. Vendor management, to truly partner, to transfer and control intellectual property boundaries and how that happens. So those are the three things I think CIOs absolutely must start doing. >> And that is what Andy Jassy's been hinting around is optical illusions, is whether its vendor. Where's the partnerships? Where's the coding? Great observation, Peter, I've got to say that was phenomenal. I would agree. I mean, this is ultimately coming to a new era with computing with AI, IOT Edge. I think Pat Gelsinger laid out the wave slide beautifully yesterday. >> We're throwing the computing industry up in the air right now and seeing where it's going to land. It's time to start shaping that into the new model of how we're going to think through problems and how we're going to solve problems with technology. >> And we had the CIO perspective yesterday with Bask Iyer, who's the CIO of VMware. He said, John, look it, some things in IT are recognizable. There are certain patterns. We know when retail has spiked. So, yeah, I'll do bursting of the cloud, but most things can be patternized, and that's okay. Some things will always be unrecognizable. But it's not always that dynamic. Once you get that nailed down, that's where the true private cloud report comes in. Congratulations, by the way, on the true private cloud report from Wikibon. It's going viral here on the show. >> Some great work from Stu and David Floyer for many years. >> Great work. It's going viral. Talk of the town here in Vegas. Congratulations, Stu. >> Well, thank you. It's something, we've been having this conversation in this community specifically at VMworld for years. Because it was that air gap between I virtualized and that helped utilization to I really need to get to that operating model of the cloud. I interviewed a consultant from Australia last year on the other set. And he said a lot of the companies he still talks to is IT is still a call center. And we've been talking for years about moving from just being a call center to really partnering with a business. Or, you know, Jeremy Burton, who I interview recently, he's like no It's driving the business. And it's great that there are some companies that fully transformed and they are engaging in that or at least they tell a good story. But there's a lot of customers that are still working on their own journey. And that's what shows like this are all about. >> So really quick John. So the way I describe that is when you think about cost benefit, when you think about productivity, it's how much work am I going to get done for how much cost? The cost is the denominator. What we like to say is that IT has to start taking on a numerator mentality. What benefits am I going to create? What opportunities am I going to create? What revenue am I going to help create? Got to think on the numerator side of the equation. >> You guys are doing some great work. You know, a lot of analysts are always pumping in reports: Oh, you got to see this. And then pushing out to the analyst relationship. If you're in this business, whether you're a CXO, an advisor, or you work for a company and you don't read that true private cloud report, you possibly could be fired. It's really game-changing. It's like the software reading the world memo. This is the marketplace that's hot right now. True Private Cloud Report by Wikibon. Check it out. The Cube Day Two Coverage continues. We'll be right back with more after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from Austin, Texas. It's The Cube. Covering DockerCon 2017, brought to you by Docker and support from it's ecosystem partners. (techno music) Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is Silicon Angle Media's production of The Cube, the worldwide leader in enterprise tech coverage and this is DockerCon 2017. We're here at the Austin Convention Center, just had the day two kick-off at the keynote. Really, yesterday was the developer day, today is the enterprise day. And to help me break down the latest news and what's happening in the ecosystem, I grabbed just some guy. (laughter) And of course, that's actually in his Twitter bio, which is why I do this, and I happen to have a good friend of mine, a good friend of the community, Stephen Foskett, who is the organizer of TechFieldDay. Stephen, always great to see ya and thanks for taking time out to get a little casual and dig into some open-source developer stuff. >> Yeah, you know, these are the developers, I'm used to wearing my fancy clothes, but I figured I would try to blend in a little bit here with the DevOps crowd at DockerCon. >> Yeah, I saw one of the demo guys had like a flashy jacket. I figured you'd come in in tails and- >> Yeah, I do usually have flashy shirts and stuff on, but yesterday I felt a little out of place, I mean these guys are, well, a lot of t-shirts here. >> Yeah, so today not as many announcements but it's always interesting. Shows like Amazon, shows like this, it's like, okay, one day let's talk to the developers and one day let's talk to the enterprise. What's your take on that? How is Docker doing with their maturation and what do you see in the marketplace? >> Yeah, I think that's really the key to what they're planning, so yesterday, I don't want to say developer because it was developer and ops but it was basically traditional Docker day, yesterday. And today is all about the enterprise. And I think that Docker had a very clear goal from today and that was to really plant their flag and say, not just Docker Day the center like last year, but that Docker is not only ready to be in the enterprise and not only has the tools to be in the enterprise, but is already there with some major customers. >> Yeah and great customers, had Visa and MetLife up onstage and no better way to say we're ready for enterprise applications than say, hey, Oracle is in the store there. What's your take, anything on the customer case studies Oracle? >> Well, let's take the customer case studies first. So clearly the takeaway from the Visa presentation and the MetLife presentation was nothing more than Visa is using Docker and Anchore, MetLife is using Docker and Anchore. I mean, basically these are massive, traditional companies with absolutely critical workloads, huge security requirements, and they're using Docker in production. I think that, if we would have all listened, Ben could have stood up there and said, "Hey everybody, Docker, MetLife, enterprise, production" and that would have been a substitute for 45 minutes of discussion. Because it's not like Visa's really going to tell us the secret ins and outs of their infrastructure, but they told us the most important thing, which is that a lot of those transactions are running through Docker containers. And that's what Docker wanted us to hear. >> It's interesting. Ben kind of blew up the myth of bimodal IT. And one of the things we'd kind of been looking at and want to get your opinion on, is taking my older applications and just kind of wrapping and moving them. Without changing a line of code, I can bring this into this environment what, you know many of us called for years, 'lift and shift'. What do you think about the modern, building new applications versus the old applications and, of course, customers don't have two IT environments. They usually need to move things together and have kind of a whole strategy. >> Yeah and well, I'm ambivalent about this whole concept of bimodal IT, but I'm not ready to reject it. I think it still matters from an app perspective, from an app-to-app perspective, and I think it's absolutely true that there are multiple kinds of apps. In fact, I think there's probably more than two kinds. I think that's maybe the real problem. You've got the real traditional applications, you know Southwest just announced that they're moving their reservation system forward from some old mainframe to some new mainframe, and that's causing all sorts of disruption in travel. Those kind of applications and then there's the more open systems packaged applications from the '90s and the 2000s and those things can be moved forward. And then there's sort of the applications that can be really modernized with containers and then there's the applications that you can 'microservice-cize' and then there's real cloud applications. So it's not just bimodal IT, it's really octomodal IT. >> And I like that Ben put it up there, it was a journey that they talked about. It's let's get everything on kind of a shared platform and have a way that we can do it the old way, start breaking it apart into more pieces, or totally rewrite. Because we know the migration cost of having to rewrite an application, it's really tough. >> Stephen: It's huge. >> But it's something that, for too long, people were like, 'oh well, I'll just run on that really old application that kind of sucked for way too long,' so I know sometimes I'm getting on my soap box and being like, please, your users hate that application and they'd like to be a little bit more modern. But it's not an easy thing and there's multiple paths to get there. There was an announcement, they called it the 'modernized traditional applications'. Any take on that and how that fits into the discussion we were just having? >> Well they talked about that a little bit today, not to put in too much of a plug, but we actually had a 45 minute discussion of that with TechFieldDay on Monday and it was embargoed. But the video is actually uploaded now and so if you just Google 'TechFieldDay Docker modernized tradition applications', there's a much deeper dive into that and really what that means and essentially, it's a take on the old P2V strategy that we saw in virtualization that it is possible to literally just scoop up a traditional application and put it in a container. But it's doing more than that and there's all sorts of things that are going on here there identifying which components are part of the application, they're helping you set up the network so that the application will connect still the right way. And I think by choice, Docker didn't really want to emphasize all the real nuts and bolts. I mean, they showed a great, well, an amusing demo of this in action with Ben playing the straight man at the keynote, and that's worth watching as well, but it remains to be seen to what extent they're going to be able to modernize traditional applications and containerize traditional applications. >> Okay, so Stephen, one of the things that is probably the least mature in the Docker ecosystem is storage. I know it's something you've spent some time digging into, what's your take on where we are with storage and containers, where it needs to go, what's the truth and reality? >> Yeah, well my, as you say, my background is storage. And I love storage, I really do. But absolutely, Docker, when I first started experimenting with Docker, I was really blown away by the sort of amateur hour storage approach that they took, I mean, it was essentially, here's a company that knows nothing about storage or networking, building a storage and a networking system. You know, what's wrong with these people? But over time, I've kind of, my view has become a little more nuanced. Because I see that Docker wasn't trying to build an enterprise-grade storage infrastructure, they were trying to build a storage layer that would allow you efficiently to deploy containers. The whole idea always was that storage would be external to the container. And if you're using internal container storage, if you're using the layered file systems, you're doing it wrong if you're doing any kind of real IO. And so, you know we saw a proliferation of plug-ins to allow you to use real storage systems, enterprise storage systems. Ben mentions Nimble and NetApp and companies like that. And in addition, we're starting now to see a whole raft of really interesting, basically container storage arrays. So you've got companies like Storage OS and Portworx developing real enterprise-concept storage specifically targeted at containers. And I think that that's really what's going to happen, is we're going to have the containers using the layered Docker storage but real heavy IO and enterprise applications are either going to us plugged-in enterprise storage or Dockerized enterprise storage. >> Reminds us a lot of what we saw with virtualization- >> Stephen: Absolutely. >> We spent a decade fixing that, I actually remember at Intel Developer Forum, gosh was it like two years ago, Nick Weaver, good friend of ours, works over at Intel, used to work at EMZ, goes to this presentation, I get up at the end, I'm like, 'hey Nick, how are we going to solve all these issues like we did for VMware?" And he was like, 'oh my gosh.' >> And it's pretty much the same story, isn't it? >> It is that same story. >> You know, we're seeing basically the same thing, like virtual storage appliances equals container storage appliances. >> The oversimplified thing of it for me is I felt like we moved along faster with storage and networking took a long time in the virtualization layer, and here it's flipped. Networking seems to move along a little bit faster and storage is there and it's a little nuanced as to what that storage solution looks like, it's not just like, 'oh, we put it all in the hypervisor and eventually it works and we do everything in VM layer.' It's like, well, containers are a little bit different. >> Yeah and some of these container storage solutions are really clever. They've take the lessons from virtualization, from cloud storage, they're building distributed storage, it's really cool. But I think there's another thing to think about there too and that's that Docker invested pretty heavily in creating a, I don't want to say a real enterprise networking layer, but a better networking layer for Swarm. And I think that that may be a road sign of what they may do for storage as well. I think we may see Docker developing a more advanced storage layer, maybe not an enterprise storage layer, but at least something scalable, something distributed for Swarm customers. >> Yeah, I want to get just a little broader from you, just your take on storage these days. I look at adoption of Amazon, VMware's going to go on Amazon. Look, Azure Stack's coming out this summer and you know, we're going to have the S2D as the storage layer for what that's built on. What's the storage market look like from the Foskett viewpoint? >> Well storage is really conservative and when you talk about the market and you talk about the technology, these are two very different things. So the technology is rapidly advancing, we're seeing the world is right now being blown away by the current wave, which is distributed, NVMe, ultra high-performance flash storage, exemplified by a company like Excelero, for example. That's absolutely the coolest stuff out there right now. But then the market is still adopting SAN. You know what I mean? The market is still, you know, 'hey, should we implement iSCSI? Hey, should we look at NFSv4?' Things like that and it's a real kind of facepalm thing because you look at the reality of storage and it doesn't keep up with the promise of enterprise storage. But it's, yeah and then there's the whole aspect of sort of cloud storage, off-premises storage and that is also a potentially game-changer for the market. But overall, I would say that you'd be a fool to bet on radical transformation of storage. It's just not going to happen. You know, that's why HP's going to get tremendous value out of buying Nimble. That's why NetApp and Dell EMC are going to be selling a lot of product for a long time. Because although they're innovating and advancing and keeping up with some of these new waves of storage, the truth is most buyers are buying very calm, boring stuff still. >> Alright, Stephen, unfortunately we're running low on time. Why don't you be the final word, let's talk about the community aspect. I loved, you come into a lot of these open-source shows, it's just got a great vibe, enthusiastic, really people that want to learn. And I know that always excites me, it's the kind of thing that you love, hanging out with those people too. What's your take on kind of the Docker ecosystem and community? >> It's wonderful. I mean, it reminds me of how VMware was back, well, the last decade. It's a warm, inviting, exciting community. And one of the things that I really want to highlight here at DockerCon that I've seen is that it's a lot more of a diverse community than I've seen traditionally in IT. I'm more of in enterprise IT and so there's a lot of people walking around that look like me. And looking here, there's a lot of people that don't. And that is fantastic. Docker has done a great job of emphasizing diversity, they've got onsite child care, they've got, I mean, Solomon tweeted that there's 20% women attendees at DockerCon. To me, yeah, the vibe is great, but wow! Talk about broadening IT and talk about modernizing IT. That's modernizing IT. >> Alright, well Stephen Foskett, always great to catch up with you. I'm sure I will see you at many conferences throughout our travels throughout the year and we've got a full day of coverage here from DockerCon 2017. Solomon Hykes is coming on, we do have Visa who did the case study, many other partners, Oracle who made an announcement today. I've got a couple of service providers who actually participated in Stephen's TFDX event here before the event. So stay tuned for all our coverage and thank you for watching The Cube. (techno music)