>> Announcer: Live from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami everybody. This is Dave Volante with Peter Burris and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise, and we're here at VeeamON 2019 in Miami at the Fontainebleau Hotel. Raj Perumal is here. He's the CIO of Ducks Unlimited, Canada-based wetland and waterfowl conservation. Great to have you on theCUBE, thanks. >> Thank you. >> The keynote yesterday was awesome. You guys were talking about some of things that you're doing. We're going to get into that. You made a great statement. You said "the wetlands are the kidneys of the world." >> Raj: Yes. >> You know, explain that. >> (laughs) Sure, so, most people are very familiar with the Amazon rain forest, right? When you think about saving the planet and saving the environment, that's where everyone's mind or eyes go to, right? Well, wetlands are Mother Nature's way of essentially filtering water, stopping overland flooding, and so on. So, that's why we say they are the kidneys of the earth. >> Yeah, and so talk a little bit about the trends in the earth. It's been very challenging, right? I mean despite the great work that you're doing, you're still fighting this battle which sometimes might feel unwinnable. But give us the data, yeah. >> Absolutely, urban expansion, right? At the end of the day, you know as humans we're going across the planet. We're constantly building more cities, more parking lots, more everything, right? So wetlands are getting replaced with various things. Same thing with various resource mining, et cetera. Wetlands go away. So what Ducks Unlimited likes to do is adopt a no net loss policy. So what we do is we work closely with governments in various provinces across Canada. So if someone destroys an acre of wetlands, we can try and restore maybe four or ten acres for every one destroyed. It's better not to destroy it in the first place, but if it's going to happen, restore it somewhere else. >> Dave: So, some of the stats I saw. You've done 12,000 projects since you started this in the 1930's. 163.5 million acres that you have preserved. And as I say, still the wetlands loss is enormous. Is it not regulated to the point where public policy can help? >> Raj: Well, there's policy and there's law. And when it comes to Canada, there's policy but there's always exceptions. So what ends up happening is, you have these policies that say you can't do this, but then there's exception, exception, exception, exception. And usually corporations can get a way through some various exception and actually get through. Ducks Unlimited helped pass a law in Quebec not too long ago, so we actually have it in law in Quebec where it is actually being supported. >> So, the old adage that if you can't measure it, it doesn't get done. >> That's right. >> One of the most amazing things about some of these digital transformations is satellite imagery, other types of weather and related data, are making it possible to track typology in unbelievable minute detail. >> Absolutely. >> Peter: Now that's got to help you, but at the same time, it's got to really dramatically require a greater focal point on things like data protection. Especially since operational time series for wetlands is not measured in nanoseconds. It's measured in years. >> That's right. >> So you got to be able to use this technology to both enhance your mission right now, but also be able to show over time how things are changing. Have I got that right? >> That's absolutely correct. With climate change as an example, and yes, that's a real thing. With climate change, you're measuring, We want to keep data like over 30 years. And that's where we actually see true change. We're just talking about five, ten years. That's just weather, that's not climate change, right? So we need to keep that data. So yes, we have a whole GIS department, Geographical Information Systems, where we have satellite imagery, drone imagery of Canada, going years and years and years back. We have to keep all of that data and we can never get rid of it. >> So what does this mission have to do with Veeam? >> Sure, absolutely. So with all of that data, GIS data is very imagery intense. So think of it like x-rays or CAD. So it takes up a lot of space. So we have to back up that data. Every map has layers and layers and layers, so it's almost like a Google Maps for the environment. You can think of it that way. We run something called the Canadian Wetland Inventory. It's the largest inventory of wetlands, mapping of wetlands, in Canada. And we leave that as open data, so anyone can access the data and use it. So we use Veeam to back all of that up, and also to maintain our disaster recovery and so on for all our different operations. That's just one aspect of our operations, another big part, and you talked about the 12,000 projects we were doing. We started a division called conservation technology which is all about using technology to monitor the wetlands. So putting internet of things sensors out in the wetlands, gathering that data automatically through satellite and cellular networks, analyzing it with artificial intelligence and machine learning. Once we have that, we can get those insights, give them to our scientists or PhDs where the big minds can go and crunch that and go and look at it and go, okay, this is what's happening in the world. We need to back that data up too. And once again, going back to what I said before, we need to keep that data over long periods of time so we can actually see patterns and figure out what's going on with our planet. >> Do you do video on the ground as well? I mean, you're right Peter. With satellite imagery, you can get pretty minute detail. But then, like the ground truth, sometimes you got to go on the ground. . Are you capturing video on the ground? >> A little bit, not a lot. >> Dave: The changes in flora and fauna? Do you see that as useful in the future? Or is it just too much data or not as useful to sort of deploy those kind of cameras? >> I would love to be able to capture all of that data real-time. The problem with that is in Canada, our internet infrastructure is quite poor in the rural areas. In some places, you have better-than-dial-up speeds. That's it. So unfortunately, we can't bring that data back. So a lot of the times, we can't capture the video. But where we can, we do. >> Dave: Okay, but so you are putting sensors there and so talk more about that data. What are you doing with that data? Does that come back into a cloud? Yes, so we pull that into the cloud, Microsoft Azure, where we analyze it and do that AI and machine learning, and then spit it out from there. So we are in the hybrid cloud. So we have some stuff internally, some in the public cloud. A little mixture of everything. That's where Veeam comes into play. >> So I had a couple questions. One is on the data source side and one is on the data sync side, starting with the data sync. Certainly, climate scientists and others, folks who are looking at geopolitics and other types of things, are taking this kind of information and they're using it as a source for even more complex and advanced applications. Are you seeing communities evolve and emerge and evolve in response to the availability of your data? >> Absolutely, people are clamoring for more though. Everyone wants real-time data. A lot of our data is manually gathered at this point. We have people driving out to a specific project in the middle of nowhere, gathering the data manually, driving back and then uploading it because that's the only way we can do it. So, absolutely, we are seeing people wanting more use of it and making use of that data, but they want it live. They want it right now. We kind of live in an instant-on society, right? But once again, the challenges of rural areas kind of tie our hands. >> Well that was my second question. Do you see an opportunity to do crowdsourcing of video or other types of information? >> Absolutely. >> So is that becoming a way and are you using artificial intelligence? Start taking an extended number of data sources as people go out and take pictures of ducks, or whatever else it is, and then ingesting that into your system. Does that become part of the flow? >> Yeah, absolutely, so that kind of takes us back to the 1930's when Ducks first started. We had the key men of old that actually kind of stewarded their local areas for conservation. So, absolutely, we can use crowdsourcing in this day and age, and it's something we want to explore. We're not doing it yet, but we're getting there. >> How is your data pipeline? 1930's, you know the data, the data model in 1930's is a lot different than it is today. The keynote speaker today talked about the sort of bending of the innovation curve and how the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years we're going to see more change than we've ever seen before. We'll see. But the data model that you guys are doing, I mean at least in the last 10 years you've seen new technologies come out, new processes. How are you evolving that data model? >> It's more like data models. (laughs) For the various line of business because we do so many different things, right? But essentially what we're trying to do-- >> The big thing is keeping it all connected. Keeping it all in sync. Implementing things like master data management. We're a big partner with Dell Boomi for example. So we leverage them to move our data back and forth between all our systems, et cetera, while Veeam backs it up. So I would say it's hugely important to be continually pushing the envelope and how you move data and how you synchronize data, how you authenticate that data and how you verify that data. Especially in science, you want to make sure that it's not being tampered with. You got to make sure that the data is consistent and true. >> Raj, how long have you been in this role? >> At Ducks Unlimited? A little over two years, but in the industry, over 25. >> So Veeam at Ducks preceded you, is that right? >> No, I brought it in. >> Dave: So you brought it in? Talk about that. Why did you bring it in and what was going on before? Maybe tell us a before and after. >> Sure, absolutely. So I actually used to be on the reseller side of the business. I used to be a CIO for one of the larger IT consulting companies in Canada. And during my time there, I brought Veeam into the province of Manitoba and spent a lot of time with various different customers, putting Veeam into various different projects and company types. So lots of exposure to the product. So when I came into Ducks Unlimited Canada, I already came in knowing what was possible, and gave the existing backup product a shot because I didn't necessarily want to rip and replace everything on my team with the CIO coming in day one. >> Dave: New sheriff in town! Ugh, who's this guy? >> But when it wasn't doing exactly what I needed it to do, we decided to bring Veeam in and the rest is basically history. >> Talk more about that. What was the business impact of bringing-- >> Oh sure, absolutely, so before Veeam, we were spending over 40 hours a week just administering backups. >> Peter: 40 hours a week? >> Yeah, easily. And we have large data sets, and so as I was talking about in the keynote, with those large data sets, if you're doing a backup or a restore, especially a restore, if it fails, you can blow a day trying to get that data back. And so you've lost a day. So that's how you easily end up losing that much time. Especially with an organization where you have 27 locations across Canada, and 500 staff, and 4,500 volunteers all accessing this data in some way, shape, or form. So by moving to Veeam, all those tasks that we used to do before, just worked. Veeam always says "it just works." It's true. And so what ended up happening is stuff that was taking the team a week, all of a sudden was taking them minutes. Like literally minutes. And it's unbelievable. That FT, that full-time equivalent staff member all of a sudden becomes freed up to do the work I was talking about in conservation technology and other areas of our business. We're directly impacting science on the planet, so a lot more fun that just supporting regular IT. >> So you have that 40 hours, was arms and legs of the team? And how large was the team? >> 16. >> So six, zero? >> Raj: 16. >> 16! Okay, so it was 16, pieces of 16. Which a lot of times, people hear that and they're like oh, it's going to reduce jobs. I don't want to talk about that. But these guys must have hated that. That job, the 40 hours-- >> Absolutely, they're doing mund-numbing work, right? >> Dave: It's interruptive and-- >> Yeah, and so now they're doing a lot funner stuff, right? >> What funner stuff are they doing? >> Absolutely, so once again being involved directly with conservation technology and our IOT play and all of that AI and machine learning research. All the sexy stuff in IT that's happening now, right? So they're very happy. >> You guys got a pretty interesting IOT use case. So how, I'm curious as to, you know we've been watching various companies come in and announce their grand IOT strategies and say "Okay we're going to bring this box to the edge." What are your thoughts on IOT, the edge, all those sort of buzz words. How do you look at it from a practitioner and a customer standpoint? >> It's very much like building a mobile app. So, you know everyone says we need an app for their company, right? They don't know why they need an app. They just say they need an app. And then they go and build that app and then nothing happens with it, right? And then it all fails. IOT is much the same way. Internet of things, AI, machine learning, it's all the buzz words. But then you need to understand what you want to get out of it in the first place. Like where are you trying to go? What are you trying to do? What are you trying to accomplish? And then if IOT fits that, AI, machine learning, if that fits that, then great. And if it doesn't, then don't waste your time. That's my thought. >> So, specifically, what's your IOT strategy? What can you accomplish with edge? >> Absolutely, if we can get instant live data streaming into the cloud and actively analyzing it on the fly using cloud services like Azure, AI, machine learning IOT et cetera, or even Amazon services, a lot of different services out there. If we can do that on the fly and feed that into the Canadian Wetland Inventory that I was talking about before, using open data initiatives, we can now feed data to the planet about what's happening real-time to academia, to governments, et cetera, so they can make decisions with evidentiary-based statistics, right? Right now it's very hard for, this is why the fight over climate change, people go "There is such a thing." Other people go, "No there isn't", and this happens because there's not enough data available to the general public, right? So by having this open data and making it available to the general public, not just the scientific communities, I think that would go a long way to helping get support for these causes. >> That's awesome, changing the world. What are the skill sets you need to achieve that vision? Is it data science-heavy? Can you sort of outsource some of that? Is the tooling simplified enough now? Talk about that. >> It's a little bit of networking, little bit of data science, a lot of GIS, and a lot of old fashioned networking and talking to people, right? So that's really what makes up the team and allows us to do what we do. >> Are you hiring data scientists? >> Not at the moment, no. We have everyone we need. >> But you have data scientists on staff. >> Yes, exactly. Because even before the IOT thing, we have scientists on staff that do just that, right? It's just in the traditional sense, before that. >> So did you sort of create that role? Take somebody who's good in math and computers and stats and say "Hey, you're the data scientist now. Go do some training and make it happen." Or did you actually hire in a data scientist? >> We actually created that role, so we have numerous people that feed different aspects of that, but the main man that's actually running that for me is our right hand man and your manager of IT. He started as a biologist that became a GIS guy that became my manager of IT. So he has a little bit of experience in all these different areas and he's like the perfect person to run the conservation technology division for us. >> Cool. >> And he's here today. >> Oh really? So what do you think of VeeamOn? Have you been to previous Veeam shows? >> Yeah, most of them actually. >> Dave: Really? >> It's great, yeah. >> Oh, that's awesome, seeing the CIO crowd hang out with all us backup wonks. So, thoughts from the show, takeaways? >> Sure, absolutely. Well, first of all, if anyone isn't using Veeam, they should be using it already. I got to say that right now. So many people waste their time picking and choosing and hemming and hawing. Just use it, it just works. So please do that. You won't regret it whatsoever. Veeam has done some really great things. I love the announcements with Orchestrator in version 2 there, and some of the good things that are coming with the restore plans and the scopes, et cetera. And that's fantastic. So I think there's a lot of great things that Veeam is bringing to data management and data availability. >> Yeah, so they made a big deal out of being able to do restores from the backup corpus. Not having to go to a replicated chunk of data. Why is that important for you, and will you take advantage of that? >> It's just the speed. It's just the speed, so I don't have to bring it back from another place, right? It's just instant. >> Yeah, okay, so then you're going to use that other place for disaster recovery or just a second copy for just in case? >> Yup! >> But you've got basically a local copy that you can bring back instantaneously. Okay, great. And I presume that supports your sort of compressed RTO and RPO. Which, as long as I've been in this business, they've shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. >> Yup, that's right. >> Shrunk the RPO. Great, okay, I'll give you final words. Cool stuff you're working on, things you'd like to see our industry do better, you pick it. >> Sure, cool stuff we're working on. So, talking about what we're doing at Ducks Unlimited with IT and really kind of changing the shape of IT and how it's involved in science, and I talked about Wetland Inventory, that live data, et cetera. If we can build a model like that here, imagine what we can do across the world, right? I'd love to take that model and take it to other countries where they can do the same type of work, so altruistically, and share that data, that whole open data initiative, so other people can go and save wetlands. If we can get everyone working together that way, I think we'll all be better off. >> That's awesome, Raj, thank you so much for coming to theCUBE, sharing your insights and experiences. Appreciate it. All right, keep it right there buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE live from VeeamON 2019 from Miami. We'll be right back.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Welcome to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. The digital version I'm Lisa Martin and I have a couple of Cuba alumni joining me from Wien. We've got Danny Allen. It's C T O and S VP of product strategy And Dave Russell, VP of Enterprise Strategy, is here as well. Danny and a Welcome back to the Cube. >>Hi, Lisa. Great to be here. >>Hey, Lisa. Great to be here. Love talking with this audience >>It and thankfully, because of technologies like this in the zoom, were still able to engage with that audience, even though we would all be gearing up to be Go spending five days in Vegas with what 47,000 of our closest friends across, you know, and walking a lot. But I wanted Thio. Danny, start with you and you guys had them on virtually this summer. That's an event known for its energy. Talk to me about some of the things that you guys announced there. And how are your customers doing with this rapid change toe? work from home and this massive amount of uncertainty. >>Well, certainly no one would have predicted this the beginning of the year. There has been such transformation. There was a statement made earlier this year that we've gone through two years of transformation in just two months, and I would say that is definitely true. If you look both internally and bean our workforce, we have 4400 employees all of a sudden, 3000 of them that had been going into the office or working from home. And that is true of our customer base as well. There's a lot of remote, uh, remote employ, mental remote working, and so that has. You would think it would have impact on the digital systems. But what it's done is it's accelerated the transformation that organizations were going through, and that's been good in a number of different aspects. One certainly cloud adoption of clouds picked up things like Microsoft teams and collaboration software is certainly picked up, so it's certainly been a challenging year on many fronts. But on the on the other hand, it's also been very beneficial for us as well. >>Yeah, I've talked to so many folks in the last few months. There's silver linings everywhere. There's opportunity everywhere. But give our audience standing an overview of who them is, what you do and how you help customers secure their data. >>Sure, so VM has been in the backup businesses. What I'll say We started right around when virtualization was taking off a little before AWS and you see two left computing services on DWI would do back up a virtual environments. You know, over the last decade, we have grown into a $1 billion company doing backup solutions that enable cloud data management. What do you mean by that? Is we do backup of all kinds of different infrastructures, from virtual to cloud based Assad's based to physical systems, You name it. And then when we ingest that data, what we do is we begin to manage it. So an example of this is we have 400,000 customers, they're going back up on premises. And one of the things that we've seen this year is this massive push of that backup data into S three into the public cloud and s. So this is something that we help our customers with as they go through this transformation. >>And so you've got a team for a ws Cloud native solution. Talk to me a little bit about that. And how does that allow business is to get that centralized view of virtual physical SAS applications? >>Yeah, I think it all starts with architecture er and fundamentally beams, architectures. ER is based upon having a portable data format that self describing. So what >>does >>that mean? That means it reduces the friction from moving data that might have been born on premises to later being Stan Shih ated in, say, the AWS cloud. Or you can also imagine now new workloads being born in the cloud, especially towards the middle and end of this year. A lot of us we couldn't get into our data center. We had to do everything remotely. So we had to try to keep those lights on operationally. But we also had to begin to lift and shift and accelerate your point about silver linings. You know, if there is a silver lining, the very prepared really benefited. And I think those that were maybe a little more laggards they caught up pretty quickly. >>Well, that's good to hear stick big sticking with you. I'd love to get your perspectives on I t challenges in the last nine months in particular, what things have changed, what remains the same. And where is back up as a priority for the the I T folks and really the business folks, too? >>Yeah, I almost want to start with that last piece. Where? Where's backup? So back up? Obviously well understood as a concept, it's well funded. I mean, almost everybody in their right mind has a backup product, especially for critical data. But yet that all sounds very much the same. What's very, very different, though? Where are those workloads? Where do they need to be going forward? What are the service level agreements? Meaning that access times required for those workloads? And while we're arguably transitioning from certain types of applications to new applications, the vast majority of us are dead in the middle of that. So we've got to be able to embrace the new while also anchoring back to the past. >>Yeah, I'm not so easily sudden, done professionally or personally, Danny, I'd love to get your perspective on how your customer conversations have changed. You know, we're executives like you, both of you are so used to getting on planes and flying around and being able Thio, engage with your customers, especially events like Vermont, and reinvent What's the change been like? And from a business perspective, are you having more conversations at that business? Little as the end of the day. If you can't recover the data, that's the whole point, right? >>Yeah, it is. I would say the conversations really have four sentiments to them. The first is always starts with the pandemic and the impact of the pandemic on the business. The second from there is it talks about resource. We talked about resource management. That's resource management, both from a cost perspective. Customers trying to shift the costs from Capex models typically on premises into Op X cloud consumption models and also resource management as well. There's the shift from customers who are used to doing business one way, and they're trying to shift the resources to make it effective in a new and better way. I'd say the third conversation actually pivots from there to things like security and governance. One of the interesting things this year we've seen a lot of is ransomware and malware and attacks, especially because the attack surface has increased with people working from home. There is more opportunity for organizations to be challenged, and then, lastly, always pivots where it ends up his digital transformation. How do I get from where I used to be to where I want to be? >>Yeah, the ransomware increase has been quite substantial. I've seen a number of big. Of course you never want to be. The brand garment was head Carnival Cruise Line. I think canon cameras as well and you're talking about you know you're right, Danny. The attacks are toe surfaces, expanding. Um, you know, with unprotected cloud databases. I think that was the Facebook Tic Tac Instagram pack. And so it's and also is getting more personal, which we have more people from home, more distractions. And that's a big challenge that organizations need to be prepared for, because, really, it's not a matter of are we going to get a hit? But it's It's when, and we need to make sure that we have that resiliency. They've talked to us about how them enables customers toe have that resiliency. >>Yeah, you know, it's a multilayered approach like you know, any good defensive mechanism. It's not one thing it's trying to do all of the right things in advance, meaning passwords and perimeter security and, ideally, virtual private networks. But to your point, some of those things can fail, especially as we're all working remotely, and there's more dependence on now. Suddenly, perhaps not so. I t sophisticated people, too. Now do the right things on a daily basis and your point about how personal is getting. If we're all getting emails about, click on this for helpful information on the pandemic, you know there's the likelihood of this goes up. So in addition to try and do good things ahead of time, we've got some early warning detection capabilities. We can alert that something looks suspicious or a novelist, and bare bears out better investigation to confirm that. But ultimately, the couple of things that we do, they're very interesting and unique to beam are we can lock down copy of the backup data so that even internal employees, even somewhat at Amazon, can't go. If it's marked immutable and destroy it, remove it, alter it in any way before it's due to be modified or deleted, erased in any way. But one of the ones I'm most excited about is we can actually recover from an old backup and now introduce updated virus signatures to ensure we don't reintroduced Day zero threats into production environment. >>Is it across all workloads, physical virtual things like, you know, Microsoft or 65 slack talked about those collaboration tools that immune ability, >>so immune ability. We're expanding out into multiple platforms today. We've got it on on premises object storage through a variety of different partners. Actually, a couple dozen different partners now, and we have something very unique with AWS s three object lock that we you can really lock down that data and ensure that can't be compromised. >>That's excellent, Danny, over to you in terms of cloud adoption, you both talked about this acceleration of digital business transformation that we've all seen. I think everyone has whiplash from that and that this adoption of cloud has increased. We've seen a lot of that is being a facilitator like, are you working with clients who are sort of, you know, maybe Dave at that point you talked about in the beginning, like kind of on that on that. Bring in the beginning and we've got to transform. We've got to go to the cloud. How do you kind of help? Maybe facilitate their adoption of public health services like AWS with the technologies that the off first? >>Yeah, I'd say it's really two things everyone wants to say, Hey, we're disrupting the market. We're changing everything about the world around us. You should come with us. Being actually is a very different approach to this one is we provide stability through the disruption around you. So as your business is changing and evolving and you're going through digital transformation, we can give you the stability through that and not only the stability through that change, but we can help in that change. And what I mean by that is if you have a customer who's been on premises and running the workloads on premises for a long while, and maybe they've been sending their backups and deaths three and flagging that impute ability. But maybe now they want to actually migrate the workloads into E. C to weaken. Do that. It's a It's a three step three clicks and workflow to hit a button and say send it up into Easy to. And then once it's in AWS, we can protect the workload when it's there. So we don't just give the stability in this changing environment around us. But we actually help customers go through that transformation and help them move the workloads to the most appropriate business location for them. >>And how does that Danny contending with you from a cost optimization perspective? Of course, we always talk about cost as a factor. Um, I'm going to the cloud. How does that a facilitator of, like, being able to move some of those workloads like attitude that you talked about? Is that a facilitator of cost optimization? Lower tco? I would imagine at some point Yes, >>Yes, it is. So I have this saying the cloud is not a charity right there later in margin, and often people don't understand necessarily what it's going to cost them. So one of the fundamental things that we've had in being back up for a W s since the very beginning since version one is we give cost forecasting and it's not just a rudimentary cost forecasting. We look at the storage we looked compute. We looked at the networking. We look at what all of the different factors that go into a policy, and we will tell them in advance what it's going to cost. That way you don't end up in a position where you're paying a lot more than you expected to pay. And so giving that transparency, giving the the visibility into what the costs of the cloud migration and adoption are going to be is a critical motivator for customers actually to use our software. >>Awesome. And Dave, I'm curious if we look at some of the things trends wise that have gone on, what are you seeing? I t folks in terms of work from home, the remote workers, but I am imagine they're getting their hands on this. But do you expect that a good amount of certain types of folks from industries won't go back into the office because I ts realizing, like more cost optimization? Zor Hey, we don't need to be on site because we can leverage cloud capabilities. >>Yeah, I think it works, actually, in both directions least, I think we'll see employees continue to work remotely, so the notion of skyscrapers being filled with tens of thousands of people, you know, knowledge workers, as they were once called back in the day. That may not come to pass at least any time soon. But conversely to your point everybody getting back into the data center, you know, from a business perspective, the vast majorities of CEO so they don't wanna be in the real estate business. They don't wanna be in the brick and mortar and the power cooling the facilities business. So >>that was >>a trend that was already directionally happening. And just as an accelerant, I think 2000 and 20 and probably 2021 at least the first half just continues that trend. >>Yeah, Silicon Valley is a bit lonely. The freeways there certainly emptier, which is one thing. But it is. It's one of those things that you think you could be now granted folks that worked from home regardless of the functions they were in before. It's not the same. I think we all know that it's not the same working from home during a pandemic when there's just so much more going on. But at the same time, I think businesses are realizing where they can actually get more cost optimization. Since you point not wanting to manage real estate, big data centers, things like that, that may be a ah, positive spin on what this situation has demonstrated. Daddy Last question to you. I always loved it to hear about successful customers. Talk to me about one of your favorite reference customers that really just articulates beams value, especially in this time of helping customers with so many pivots. >>Well, the whole concept of digital transformation is clearly coming to the forefront with the pandemic. And so one of my favorite customers, for example, ducks unlimited up in Canada. They have i ot sensors where they're collecting data about about climate information. They put it into a repository and they keep it for 60 years. Why 60 years? Because who knows? Over the next 60 years, when these sensors in the data they're collecting may be able to solve problems like climate change. But if you >>look at it >>a broader sense, take that same concept of collection of data. I think we're in a fantastic period right now where things like Callum medicine. Um, in the past, >>it was >>kind of in a slow roll remote education and training was on kind of a slow roll. Climate change. Slow roll. Um, but now the pandemics accelerating. Ah, lot of that. Another customer, Royal Dutch Shell, for example. Traditionally in the oil and petrochemical industry, their now taking the data that they have, they're going through this transformation faster than ever before and saying, How do I move to sustainable energy? And so a lot of people look at 2020 and say, I want how does this year? Or, you know, this is not the transformation I want. I actually take the reverse of that. The customers that we have right now are taking the data sets that they have, and they're actually optimizing for a more sustainable future, a better future for us and for our Children. And I think that's a fantastic thing, and being obviously helps in that transformation. >>That's excellent. And I agree with you, Danny, you know, the necessity is the mother of invention. And sometimes when all of these challenges air exposed, it's hard right away to see what are the what are the positives right? What are the opportunities? But from a business perspective is you guys were talking about the beginning of our segment, you know, in the beginning was keeping the lights on. Well, now we've got to get from keeping the lights on, too. Surviving to pivoting well to thriving. So that hopefully 2021 this is good as everybody hopes it's going to be. Right, Dave? >>Yeah, absolutely. It's all data driven and you're right. We have to move from keep the lights up on going the operational aspect to growing the business in new ways and ideally transforming the business in new ways. And you can see we hit on digital transformation a number of times. Why? Because its data driven, Why do we intercept that with being well? Because if it's important to you, it's probably backed up and held for long term safekeeping. So we want to be able to better leverage the data like Danny mentioned with Ducks Unlimited. >>And of course, as we know, data volumes are only growing. So next time you're on day, you have to play us out with one of your guitars. Deal >>definitely, definitely will. >>Excellent for Dave Russell and Danny Allen. I'm Lisa Martin. Guys, thank you so much for joining. You're watching the Cube