>> Live from Toronto, Canada, it's theCUBE! Covering Blockchain Futurist Conference 2018. Brought to you by theCUBE! >> Hey, welcome back, everyone, we're live here in Toronto for the Blockchain Futurist Conference put on by Untraceable, Tracy and her team doing a fantastic job, so shout out to the team at Untraceable for another great event. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, my cohost's Dave Vellante, and we're here with CUBE's friend, CUBE alumni, from the CryptoChicks, Nataliya Hearn, director, good to see you, great to have you back. >> Thank you. (laughs) >> Okay, good to see you, we're laughing, we've got some great funny stories we've been telling, since PolyCon, but really, some great things going on, so give us the update, you had a hackathon recently, you got new things happening here in your organization, take a quick minute to explain what it is for the folks that don't know, what do you guys do, and what's going on? >> Good, well, CryptoChicks is a organization focused on educating women in blockchain and cryptospace. We started because at meetups there would be one or two women out of hundreds of men, who would be afraid to ask stupid questions, so we said, Oh, okay, there's no stupid questions, come and join us, and we'll show you how to open a wallet, what blockchain is all about, so we've been doing that. We've actually grew quite a bit, we are now have chapters in all over the world, in Pakistan, in Bahamas, in Moscow, we just teamed up with She Codes in Israel, which is 50,000 women, so, we're doing really well. >> Congratulations, a great mission, we totally support it, and, you know, I'm proud to say that I love my shirt that says, Satoshi is Female, thanks to Nyla Rodgers, who gave it to me, at Consensus in Blockchain Week in New York, but this is really beyond women in tech, it's beyond that, it's a really, you're doing some innovative things around onboarding, new talent and education, this is a really important, because the Internet is bounded on discovery, learning. >> Absolutely. >> What's the new thing? >> Well, you know when you hear, when you go to the blockchain conference and events, and we hear again and again about the chasm. How do we bridge the chasm, right? That's just the, like, big word that you hear like every third presentation, because the blockchain community needs it. But I think globally, blockchain represents something that's quite unique, and it's an opportunity not just to make money and speculate, or to develop new technology, it's technology that can liberate. But how do we get that message across? And I think we have to start with kids. Kids are our future, but they're also the ones who spend most of their time on social media, so that's a good thing, but if you ask their parents, that's not such a good thing necessarily. So how do we convert them, some of their time from social media to learning? So we've put, we're putting together this program that focuses on children to earn to learn. >> Earn to learn, like they earn coins or money, or? >> That's right, basically they can earn swag, so basically we're creating the marketplace that rewards children for learning. >> All kids, right? >> All kids, well we're focusing on -- >> On girls. >> No, not on girls, we're going to high schools, so immediate next generation. >> So girls, boys, everybody's welcome? >> Absolutely. Yep. >> Awesome. >> Next generation, and they're the next generation that has to solve the problems that we, and opportunities that can be captured, that's coming right to their front door. >> Absolutely, we have a lot of question marks in the blockchain community. Which blockchain, how do we do it, there is going to be multi-chain tokens, we're talking about, next generation is the one who's going to provide solutions for us. So we got to open their minds, and to show that blockchain is a tool like potentially calculus is a tool. To create something that hasn't been there before. >> You know, I have a lot of conversations in Silicon Valley and Nataliya, recently at the Google Cloud event, Google's been very much a great change agent, especially with women in tech and underrepresented minorities, but Aparna Sinha, who's one of the senior people there, dual degrees from Stanford, she's got a PhD, she said we're losing the girls early, and what came out of it was a conversation that, when you have these new market movements like blockchain, AI, these are new skills that you can level up, so the ability to come from behind and level up is an opportunity for people who have traditionally been behind, whether it's women or other minorities, to level up. So it's a huge opportunity now to put the naysayers down to rest, and saying, Screw you, we're going to level up and learn. >> Absolutely, and it's global, the thing is -- >> There's nothing stopping anyone from learning. >> Absolutely, and trust, and the borderless system that blockchain potentially can provide is at a global advantage. As long as you have a cell phone, you can be in a village, an old village, like at our last hackathon, we actually were streaming women hackers from Zimbabwe. So there you go, it's doable. >> So how are you, how are you scaling your message globally? >> So we're starting, one thing is that education today, is basically the bill is being paid either by the government or by parents. The reason I would call that a marketplace, I would like companies to be involved. And it could be local companies, or it could be global. What about creating ARVR classrooms, and providing the information to kids, via a completely new way that they would actually move away from swiping or just looking on some random YouTube videos, to something that they can get a phone, some shoes, mascara, focusing on girls, right? And to understand what that borderless economy really means by experiencing, what does it mean to have tokens that you can trade globally? You are used to your parents giving you some dollars, you go to a corner store. What about if you learn something, you go to a bakery, in Kenya, and for the work that you've done, you get a bun, right, or a meal? >> So this democratizing access, it's bringing education to the masses? >> And it's also uniting the blockchain community, 'cause we would be building this governance platform on blockchain, we would tokenize it, and there will be many elements of it, reward programs, smart contracts that reward content, some level of AI in terms of analysis of what we're doing, so I think this is why I was looking at multi-chain tokens. Maybe that would be a solution to kind of, to deal with -- >> Explain that, what does that mean? >> Well, we've got different chains right now, right? You've got Hyperledger, you've got Ethereum, and all this good stuff. How do you bridge all this, right, instead of having to choose one, you're now saying, I can work in all of them, because each one potentially can offer something unique. Maybe you don't have to choose one. We don't know. Only time will tell, as this, this is such a young industry, and this is why it's so exciting. >> Well, Nataliya -- >> It -- >> Oh, go ahead. >> No, I was going to say, and you're giving the kids examples, so a lot of times kids ask me, Well, what's the difference between crypto and Venmo? I'm like, okay, you know, let's talk about the different things you can do with crypto that you can't do, but they're closer than the older generations are to transferring, you know, money, at least, so now you're applying different use cases and expanding their minds in ways that, perhaps -- >> Absolutely, and I'll give you my example. I mean, I got into blockchain early before Ethereum was launched, and partly I was into public markets, and then I kind of stopped because that project ended, or I stopped and I actually reentered it, because my fifteen-year-old who started mining. But he started mining because I was in that field already, so there you go, it kind of, you know, what comes around. >> Good job. I hope he gets all his Bitcoin. >> Yeah, he did. (laughs) >> So, I want you to tell a story, of what you've seen that's been high impact from your work you've done. You had, again, that whole Pakistan thing going on, you've got all these hackathons, what is a good story you could share? >> You know, the good story we can share, I think the part that we were able to do, the hackathons that we are doing are local, but they're also global, it really is, there's this sense of empowerment, and you know what I think the best story, this is the best story: best story was, at the hackathon that we ran, it was women, over 100 women, that participated. But all our mentors were young, geeky programming guys. Sorry guys. But you really knew they really knew their stuff, so there was technology transfer, and we had a 48 hour hackathon, these guys stayed 48 hours, they didn't go to sleep, they didn't have to as mentors, and there was this amazing technology transfer that happened, and I think some relationships were formed too. >> Yeah, some serious bonding went on, right? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> It's actually a good thing that you're including people. It's not just a certain thing, you got this inclusion. >> Absolutely, and actually all it is is about inclusion, all it is is we are giving a platform for women not to be afraid, I mean, I'm an engineer, so I've been working with men all my life, so for me to ask difficult questions, or stupid questions, it's like natural now, because it's been what my life, but for women, for many, it isn't. So we just wanted to kind of cross that divide, it's not a chasm, it's just a little divide that we're bridged. >> So when you say stupid questions, do you mean like, Why do you do it that way? (laughs) Why don't you do it this way? >> Or, what's a wallet? Like, what's a private key? What's a public key? And asking that not once, but twenty times until you got it. That's okay too. >> That's called learning. >> Yeah. >> Last question, okay I got to ask you, the most important question is, how do someone get a CryptoChicks shirt? >> I think you can order it on our website, sizes are a problem, I know we've discussed this, so we need to -- >> Extra-large. >> Well, CryptoChicks is a not-for-profit organization so there are, we'll have to order this in bunches, so I'll figure this out, but what I wanted to say is that we have another hackathon that's coming up. And the hackathon is in New York, October 5th to 8th, and we have three streams, so if you're a developer, and this is for women, so if you're a developer, we have a stream. If you're not a developer, or you've never coded in your life, but you have a business mind, and you think you have a really good idea that you can put on blockchain, you're welcome to join as well, and now with all the news and regulations, we also have a regulatory stream. >> So for entrepreneurs and for business-minded people, that want to get involved, that they can come too? >> Absolutely. >> Okay, and their website is cryptochicks.ca, that's where you can get access to the information, that's great. >> October 5th to 8th, you said, right? >> That's right. >> And anybody can go? >> Anybody can register. >> And where in New York? >> It's going to be at University of New York, and at their School of Law. >> Great. >> Blockchain Educational Fun Hub. That's what it says on the website, love your website. Looking forward to getting some shirts, and putting it out there, and promoting your mission. Great job, good to see you again. >> You guys are awesome. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Nataliya. >> Thank you. >> This is crypto for good, a lot of education, and this opportunity, and our role is to share that, as a community, and I think this is a great example of the kind of community that crypto is. Education people can level up and move fast through and get proficiency, and change their lives. This is what this is all about, glad to bring us this CUBE coverage live, stay with us! Day One continues, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, we'll be right back from Toronto Blockchain Futurist Summit. Thank you. (techno music)

(Electronic ambient music) >> Announcer: Live from Nassau in the Bahamas, it's The Cube! Covering Polycon 18, brought to you by PolyMath. >> We are live here with The Cube's exclusive coverage at Polycon 18. It's a securitized token conference, but really, it's about cryptography, cryptocurrency, blockchain, token economics. The whole community's here, investors, entrepreneurs, and startups. We have two great guests here from CryptoChicks, Nataliya Hearn and Natalia Ameline. Pioneers in the industry doing something really compelling, the first ever blockchain hackathon coming up in April. It's historic, it's the first. Welcome to the Cube, thanks for joining me. >> Thank you for having us. >> Thank you for having us. >> So I love the t-shirts, CryptoChicks, I want one, a few. Can I buy them on the website? Can I get them made? >> Yeah, you can, absolutely >> I want my daughters to have those immediately, so. People in our community know that the Cube's really been... we love women in tech because there are so many smart women out there and it's awesome to showcase. But beyond that, it's this real technology being innovated. Talk about what you guys are doing. You have a really important mission, had great success, with CryptoChicks. This is like a movement inside this community, but it's also happening all around the world. You guys have big plans. Take a minute to explain the group, how you guys are operating, how it's going, and talk about this big event. >> We started this group because we realized that women are underrepresented in the space, and you don't need to go far; look at what's going on at this conference, right? Even though we are pleased towards the increase in turnaround of women, in events like this, but we still have ways to improve. So we started this group CryptoChicks with the sole mission to increase, improve gender balance, and increase participation of women in the community. And we're doing it in a variety of ways, but largely what we try to do is we try to create an environment where women feels safe to learn. It's small classes. Where women come in, they can ask questions, they can feel at ease, and I think it's very important because not every woman feels comfortable getting up in a big crowd and asking questions. And I think what we do is really helpful for a lot of women this way. >> It's very inspiring. Also you guys as co-founders Nataliya we were talking about you were a professor, and education's a big part of it, but also human nature right? So talk about the dynamic and how you guys approached that because there's different styles, both men and women and we got to kind of get it going together, I mean, you guys have got to get critical mass. Now the good news is, people are talking about it, and it's happening, and... >> Absolutely, I think, kind of knowledge. People hear stuff. You know I had kind of interesting... I was talking to a woman who was in tech but her English wasn't great, and all this kind of stuff. So she called it BigCoin, which I love it. (laughs) Because it is kind of a BigCoin you know? Out of all the coins it's the biggest coin. So stuff like this. If you go to meet ups you would have in a room of a hundred, maybe one or two women. And then they'll go, well what's a wallet? What is all this about? Just even the basic, baby-stepping, through the system. And then I think well we're focusing on only one part of it. The other part of it is that we're creating a really new level of democracy. And that element, I think, that's why we need the education. An education probably, while women is great, but we've got to start a little earlier. The interests should come at least in high school level, where you go well, What is debt? What is value? How do you define currency? Actually all the stuff we're doing at the conference here, in terms of securities. Is it a security? Or is it not a security? How do you define? So all of that starts early on. >> I've been having conversations at many levels about this, at Sundance Film Festival we talk about the role of technology. So it used to be, you know, the Boys Club. That's now changing, which is great, but also there's a trend of multidisciplinary things. You mentioned economics and all these things. So the world now is becoming integrated. So math for instance, there's a lot of math geeks out there, male and female. You don't have to be a coder per say, right? There's certainly more coding opportunities, for women, but it's not just one thing. You can do anything. Fifty percent of the population is women. If this is going to change the world, which it is. Fifty percent of it is going to be impacted too. So they have to have a role in what's going on in the community. So it's natural it should happen, I mean... >> Absolutely. And actually one of the reasons the Hackathon, the reason it's first all women Hackathon in Blockchain, and we actually have two streams. And one stream is for hackers, who are into the nitty-gritty of, sort of, the coding part, and we actually have support for them as well, in terms of learning. And then we also have the business track, where if you have an idea, and you think that Blockchain would be a really good avenue to take that idea, so you could pitch your idea during the Hackathon as well. >> And just to clarify, this is the up and coming Hackathon that you guys are doing. All women. What's the date? Share the details. Share the details. >> So it's going to be actually a conference and Hackathon, we're going to run it parallel. Conference will start on the 6th of April and going through the 8th of April, and the Hackathon will happen at the same time. >> And where is the conference going to be attended? >> So the conference is taking place in Toronto, we're partnering with our venue partner MaRS Discovery District. So it's an absolutely amazing venue in Toronto. And also our partner MaRS has a history of, you know, promoting the women in technology. So it's a good partnership for us. And it's going to be, the Hackathon is going to run about thirty hours and hopefully it's going to be a lot of good connections coming out of it. I think one of the things that we want to accomplish in this Hackathon for women is to make it easy for them to get opportunities. So most importantly we want to connect them with employers. And that's a great venue for that, because when we travel, we have a lot of the times owners of the companies will approach us and say you know, we're really looking to diversify our team. Can you help us? Because women just don't apply. I think that's another way we're trying to really infuse more women into the community. >> Open up channels of opportunity, it's not just having it be like a job interview. >> Exactly. >> So networking, demonstrating skills, style. Are you guys seeing the formula that works with people, with women? Because we see different conversations around this, you know. Take a certain approach, posture this way, be different. Eventually, I interview a lot of women that are saying, I'm going to be hardcore and some say, I just want to wear high heels and I'm a fashion person, that's who I am and why would I want to change that just because I'm a woman? So there's different views on this. Is there any pattern, or formula that you would suggest or observe? >> You know I think we live in a really fortunate part of the globe where we can actually do what we want to do. There aren't too many places like that in the world. And I think that we've got to be really thankful for that, and then it really is, you know, we are empowered to create opportunities. And in this space, it's a really young space. I mean it's really fundamental. Some people say well we've been in it for ten years. Really, most of the people have been in it for, you know, couple years. So don't think, women shouldn't think that well, there's all these guy and they know what they're doing. They also don't know what they're doing, everything's changing. Every wallet and every structure that is being created today is going to be a little different tomorrow, it's a process. >> If you say you're an expert about something here, then you're really a pretender because everyone's always learning. And the real pros are humble about that. So that's one observation. But the other one is, and I want to get your reaction on this because I go to a lot of events. Especially in tech. Where a lot of male-dominated, you know, enterprise here and there. This community's very mission oriented and I don't see any signs of lack of inclusion. So I think the door is open at least my perspective, and certainly we've been covering a lot in the space, Bitcoins in 2010 and crypto and everything else. But being here I see open doors. I can say the other verticals, not so much. Here, it seems open. Do you guys agree with that? What's good about that if you do agree, how do people walk through those doors? And if it's not, what needs to happen? What's your observation? >> I think it depends on the personalities a lot. I find that some personalities, the door is open, and will just walk in. Some personalities are, you know, I want someone to bring me and introduce me, I think it's like this everywhere. I think in this space I mostly see that it's friendly space, pretty happy with it, but I also think there could be some improvements, because quite frankly sometimes the culture is not necessarily that welcoming. For example, you go to the chatrooms on Facebook as an example. A woman makes a comment and after that you'll see lines of guys responding, what are you doing here? And why did you say that? >> Really? >> Yeah it's very common >> It's IRC culture, really. >> Yeah, so it's you know, some women are perfectly fine with it, right? And for me, it's like okay, you know, everybody's entitled to opinions. But some next time would not comment, right? And I don't know, maybe guys have a little bit thicker skin, and they take some ridicule better, I don't know, but I think there's still ways to make the culture a little bit more open and I guess comforted. >> Nataliya, do you agree with that? What's your take on that? >> I think it really starts with upbringing, again, and how we raise our children. I have 3 sons, so I raise them in the way I'd want to be treated, in an environment. I'm an engineer, so I've worked with men all my life, and this is not unusual for me. I've gone to conferences all my life, thousands of people, twenty women. >> Yeah you've got a thick skin, you guys have thick skin. >> And you know, in a way yeah, it takes guts, like you said before, to wear high heels and a skirt and really stand out when you're already standing out. So you've got to put your head up you know? And you walk into that room. >> Be yourself! Right? But don't be afraid. I guess what you're saying is, you could have whatever posture you want to have, just be proud, keep your chin up, as they say. Alright, so let's talk about, you mentioned, you guys are moms. So like, I have four kids too. Two daughters, David Vellante has four as well, the same. These kids that are born now are growing with digital natives, some are kind of pre, post Facebook, pre Instagram, Snapchat, it ranges in the spectrum. Certainly gaming has been a big part of the culture of the youth. So people who are digital natives, and or have come on with the connected social world that is, they are doing things differently. So I wanted to get your thoughts as parents, I get asked the question a lot: should I let him game? Should I let him code? What should I do? What's good? What's bad? There's no data other than kind of anecdotal or vision. I personally believe in gaming as a good future of work scenario, as long as you don't OD on it, and overdose on too much gaming. I think coding is the same. So I think this is going to be the tooling of the future, what do you guys think as parents about the exposure of technology? How do you do it? Is there a diet? Is there a recipe? I mean, what do you guys think? >> I think personally it's great. I think the younger kids get exposed to technology, the more comfortable they feel with it, and the more likely they are to become the next, you know, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates etcetera. And I think our society, whether some people like it or not, it's moving in a direction where we're becoming more and more technology addicted and dependent on it. Technology is everywhere, we don't even realize, that it's there. You know, you wake up in the morning and you look at the internet. You may like it or not, but that's the lifestyle these days. So I think for me, with kids, we need to give them freedom, and we need to observe. Because at the end of the day, I think kids are intuitive, they know what they're interested in, and we need to help them nurture their interests, so that they grow up, and they don't need to go to a job that they hate. Instead they do what they love. And that's how we're becoming a more productive society. >> And the learning online too is an opportunity to go nonlinear. Learn things at the scale you don't have to wait for the next class or semester. Your thoughts on this, Nataliya? >> Absolutely, I think every child has a gift, and I think it's parents responsibility to discover that gift. Instead of shoving your ideas, or things you didn't achieve in life into your children. >> That's called snowplow parent or helicopter parenting. >> So absolutely, and we are a technology-driven society, and you know, I'm an engineer so I'm a techie, so I've introduced my sons to a lot of things, but you know what? They've introduced me, and actually they kept me in this sector. >> I think the observational thing is really important. Freedom with observation. That's not monitoring, and surveillance, or helicoptering. It's really like, let him play, let him explore, let them have a good time. Understand it, but be mindful of what you're observing. And that's key. >> And yeah, too much of anything is not good. You know, you have to balance your sleep patterns, and all this kind of stuff, all of that has to come into a child's life. >> Yeah, intervention is required at some point, you know, when you see that the kid is shaking. (laughing) >> I always say to women in tech who are moms like, man, you have it so easy now, because you know how hard it is to raise children. Being a parent is super hard, and a lot of people look at that, need to understand that's how hard it is. It's really a wonderful thing. So thanks for sharing. Looking forward to following the CryptoChicks and covering the Hackathon, so let us know how it goes. Are there going to be any live feeds, or twitter handles, or hashtag, what's going on? >> There will be, and we'll let you know. Thank you for the opportunity >> Thank you very much >> Thank you very much for sharing, CryptoChicks here on The Cube, I'm John Furrier. Live coverage continuing, day two, of SiliconANGLE Media's Cube exclusive coverage at Polycon 18. We'll be right back. (Electronic music).

(upbeat electronic music) >> Narrator: Live from Nassau in the Bahamas, it's theCUBE! Covering Polygon '18, brought to you by Polyman. >> Welcome back everyone, we're live here at theCUBE in the Bahamas, this is the live coverage in the Bahamas for Polycon '18, I'm John Furrier, this is a wrap up of our day two. We're going to do show wrap up, brought in special analyst guest, Dave Vellante, they had to jump on a plane, head back to Boston, get out before the snow storm, to head to California. Al Burgio and I are going to wrap it up. Al, serial entrepreneur, founder of FuseChain, and CEO of FuseChain and DigitalBits, an open source project, had you on yesterday, we also were out scouring last night and getting all the data. You were the only Cube alumni at this event, now we add in another 20, good success, good to add more, thought leaders into the family, with Polycon, but big story here is the security token. I mean, I was talking to the founder of Polymath, and Genevieve with Grit Capital, and just my take is, looking at the ecosystem, it's been a sigh of relief on one hand, oh my god, finally, documents we understand accredited investors, no scams, a feel for a good, solid foundation to get funding, no rush to do a utility token, because although utility is super important, people were using utility tokens to get funding, using that money and running as fast as they can to build a product, sub-optimized kind of role there, so again, big news there. >> No, absolutely, it's been, it's the natural evolution and companies like Polymath and Secure Ties and others are helping with this natural progression and birth of the security token. There's clearly a lot of people here interested in that, lot of action, lot of new announcements at the event as well. >> John: What jumped out at you for news announcements? >> The news, I guess. >> John: Ecosystem news is big. >> If we go with the latest today, announcement with Barbados Stock Exchange, folks at Polymath, it's interesting. These emerging markets embracing new technology, it's the next wave and a lot of capital is going to be raised this way. >> What did you learn last night, I mean, first of all this event just for the folks watching, was a real interesting event, it was a 400 plus attendees, really an industry conference about, what the thought was, you had whales, billion dollars of whales here, called whales, which they have a net worth in billions and millions, hundreds of millions, then you have investors, variety of investor types and then entrepreneurs, all coming together. I heard a lot of different things last night, what did you hear? >> You know, it's interesting, I mean a lot of people were sharing their perspectives. Some are presenting different perspectives of the future, (laughing) >> Come on, spit it out! >> Others are, you know, really, in some cases, stating the obvious. But there's definitely a strong ecosystem that's coming together here, strong alignment on a number of things, irrespective of where everybody's sort of come from or the industry that they're in. A lot of people want to see this new ASA class, come and grow and be very successful. So, you had YouTuber influencers here, you had CEOs of well-established organizations, and up-and-coming CEOs of a lot of these blockchain emerging companies. There's definitely tremendous synergy amongst some of them as well, in terms of how they're sharing perspective, and how they're, in some cases, working together. >> Liquidity has been a big option, I heard people talk about liquidity. What's your take on that? What's your observation of how that's evolving? >> Well, I think there's a huge opportunity with areas where traditionally, they've lacked liquidity. Or there's been minimal liquidity, tremendous friction and challenges in terms of being able to leverage what one possesses. Blockchain really presents a huge opportunity to change the game there, as it relates to DigitalBits and what we're focused on, we see a huge opportunity in all things loyalty rewards. There's in a lot of cases, these centralized organizations, you can kind of think of them like a central bank, and people have had these difficulties in earning points, if it's a pair of golf clubs you want, you maybe have to earn points for maybe three years and you get tired after a year. >> That's your venture. >> Yeah. >> I mean FuseChain and DigitalBits specifically is solving a big problem. >> Big problem, there's tremendous lack of liquidity in all things loyalty rewards. >> What's your angle of attack there? Obviously disrupting the pre-existing and somewhat fragmented loyalty programs. I mean, I'm in so many, I don't even use the airlines things anymore. I get so many points, I never use them, I try to use the good ones that I use a lot, like Southwest or whatever, as an example, I use because my kids need to fly to an event or soccer or whatever. But other ones, I've lost all my points. I don't even know the number. I mean, where the hell is it? >> Well it's. >> What email address did I use? >> It's about perceived value, right, maybe you started off with some degree of enthusiasm and had a higher perceived value, but then towards the end it goes to nil. 'Cause it's really. >> John: But I can't get (mumbles) with my points. This is the problem I want to ask you. >> Traditionally, what you see now, a few weeks ago we saw announcement by Singapore Airlines, announcing by August their existing loyalty programs and we place them into a blockchain. We're seeing examples of this almost every week now, companies are embracing blockchain technology and what this allows for now is a more frictionless transfer of points. So, for those companies that are embracing blockchain technology, if you have points, and yeah you could potentially, after you have X number of points, go and redeem them for something you like, but in the meantime, you get discouraged, maybe you love Southwest, but maybe some of these other programs, you could trade them and hand them over to someone that actually could take advantage of it and get an alternative asset that you have a higher perceived value for. >> Digital currencies and gaming has been around for a while. We've seen the young guns get that, that's like a fish to water. Obviously loyalty has different assets than old school techniques, old stacks, technology, if that. So anyway, I ask you the question, how is blockchain disrupting the loyalty program that is the massive billions of dollars being spent and earned in that market? >> A third of points never get redeemed. There's a huge problem with many corporations, they have, as they're issuing points, it's a liability on their balance sheet. More points get issued, it's a hemorrhaging issue. It could potentially create solvency issues for companies. There's actually been professors from some reputable organizations that have really done a tremendous research in this area, it really evolves nicely into what blockchain can do. >> Like, give me an example, I mean what is the disruptive nature of it? Is it storing of the value? Is it trading on that value? Is it, I mean what is the real one thing that blockchain does to the loyalty program? >> The fact that it allows for a more frictionless transfer of points, so for the programs that are tokenizing their points on a block chain, it empowers the user to be able to directly transfer those points. >> So you guys of FuseChain and DigitalBits, you're tokenizing loyalty. >> We're supporting organizations, our big mission is to support organizations that have either existing loyalty programs or wishing to create new loyalty programs to be able to tokenize those on chain, and the ability to then allow the consumers, the users of these points programs, to, in addition to the traditional uses, redeeming them perhaps in a rewards store or what have you, the ability to transfer them for other assets that they like. >> John: So if I understand this correctly. >> Other points that they like. >> The trend that you like, or would like to see continue or happen, is retailers or loyalty programs would tokenize themselves. So, there'd be, literally, thousands and thousands of loyalty tokens and you would be the platform to support that? >> That's correct, absolutely. So, I've used the sort of red hat analogy, we have FuseChain as well that's really focused on helping support enterprises that maybe are struggling to spell blockchain. But they see all the value. >> That's everybody. >> Well from a technology perspective. Similar to Linux being born, enterprises needed to go to companies like a red hat, to support them with the integration, maintenance, so on and so forth of such technology. We're focused on having an evolving ecosystem of other organizations that can support enterprises that have loyalty programs, consume blockchain technology. >> You're a tech entrepreneur, I'm a tech entrepreneur. I have a media business, you're building another business, you sold your last business, you're very successful. You and I always talk about this, but I want to ask you here live on theCUBE, as a tech entreprenur, what is the opportunity that this ecosystem of tokenizing your business, using blockchain, how do you look at it and how would a solid tech entrepreneur look at this opportunity to integrate it, a new enabling technology, what's the orientation, what's your view on how tech entrepreneurs should look at it, and how do you look at it? >> Well, so, if we just, as it relates to the liquidity issue, this is a very powerful thing. Right now, perceived value for many points programs is very low. So, if the perceived value, you solve the liquidity issue or you create technology that can help solve the liquidity issue, the opportunity for the perceived value to be perceived in a more optimal light, everybody kind of wins. The merchant, the business that is issuing these points, they now have a more desirable asset that they're issuing, and as a result of that, consumers have an ever-growing desire to want to be part of these programs and earn points. So this is, it's fascinating when you start to think of it, in terms of. >> Technology is applying, 'cause it's the application of societal impact, whether it's a retailer or a non-profit, tokenization is happening. >> Absolutely, and it's happening obviously, not just in loyalty rewards, we've seen it happen, starting to happen now in other spaces, and with different. >> John: Your big takeaway, obviously. >> ASA classes. >> You've done a lot of work, and I know you can't talk about it 'cause you're in start-up mode and you're doing some financing right now, but just generally speaking, and I'm totally, the landscape of this ecosystem, health-wise, feels like the security token has been a good thing, utility token is still evolving, under observation, obviously SEC and other regulatory challenges, good, bad, ugly, I mean still scams out there? We're hearing the community loud and clear, we're going to stamp out the scams and flush that through the system, as fast as possible. Your take on this ecosystem? >> I think those that are taking their time to build great technology and doing it at the right pace will build great products and ideally do it at such a rate and in such an order that they'll stay out of trouble. (laughs) We're seeing a lot of great entrepreneurs come together, surround themselves with their own ecosystems and building great platforms. I think where we see others that are moving a little too quickly, they might trip on their shoelaces. >> Yeah and people don't, I mean the general consensus is "You're going to move fast, but you don't want to be in jail." Literally, I heard that quote here on theCUBE. (laughs) Investors we've been meeting, we've had on theCUBE but also we've chatted, I know I've seen you chatting, sidebars, I've had a lot of sidebars, Dave has as well, conversation among investors, not necessarily with you, I know you can't talk about it, 'cause that's, it's a hot deal, but I mean, in general, generally speaking, what's the conversations in the investor landscape that you're seeing and hearing here? >> Its interesting, everyone is trying to find their own point of view or speculating in terms of what's going to happen next. I've heard comments in terms of arbitrage as a result of income tax, people realizing that transferring between alt coins is actually likely taxable, and accountants making new investors in the space aware of these things, and having to potentially sell to be able to pay that bill. Then there's others where a lot of us are seeing this as an emerging technology, the actual use of certain, let's say, utility coins, it has not yet been demonstrated. That doesn't necessarily suggest that a particular project is bad, things do take time, I mean, we saw in the 90's with the internet, I mean, remember starting in that space, I call it the dial-up modem era, (laughs) You know, but we had these big visions of video, and theCUBE could not be possible at that time. But the vision of a Cube could be, you know, a wonderful thing, people could've bought into that. You kind of ride the trend, evolve your technology, and then you disrupt and you help change the game. >> Final question, obviously your business is, you're doing some things here, how did the show go for you here? You feel good about it? >> Absolutely. Obviously this is not like an Amazon, some of the other events we've been at but. >> It's more intimate. >> But. >> John: But there's money here, there's billionaires here. >> Absolutely, and look at any of those type of events, I mean they start with thousands, and tens of thousands, and the next year it's twenty thousand, we're going to see that kind of growth in this space as well. It's great to be involved in it early, but there's definitely quality, high-profiled individuals here, high net worth individuals, and they're investing their money in this space and they're going to help drive it forward. >> I remember the first show we did with Amazon and meeting Andy Jassy for the first time, first of all, really like him a lot, sports fan like me, but he's also really smart, a great operator, he made a comment that some of the best companies are ones that are misunderstood in the beginning, obviously we run a different kind of media business, people don't really understand us, cryptocurrency and blockchain is funny because everyone understands it, but doesn't understand it. (laughing) They understand how big it's going to be, and there's money involved, so that's the key learning that I had this week, was, yeah, we see the big opportunity, we can see money being made, but people still don't truly understand what it is. If you talk to all the smartest people, whether it's Jeremy, that came on at 26 years old, to Bill Tie, they say, "We're learning, everyday." The women in tech, the CryptoChicks came on and said, "This is learning environment, "this is still not understood." >> Absolutely. >> "And this is the big opportunity." >> It is a huge opportunity. In the early 90's, people didn't understand the internet, and there's a classic program episode of The Today Show, and I think it was Bryant Gumbel trying to understand what is the internet, you know, and so forth. Fast forward, here we are. Fascinating things, there's smart individuals that can see and embrace the vision right away, others were scratching their head but eventually, we'll all get there. (laughs) >> Al, great to see you and great to see a Cube alumni here too, I'm glad you were here, 'cause I get to know at least one person that I know intimately of Cube alumni. We added 20 more new Cube alumnis, the sun is setting here in theCUBE, day two of wall-to-wall coverage, I'm John Furrier, really excited to have been part of this event, it begins, kicks off our 2018 cryptocurrency tokenizing the world, blockchain, top events, theCUBE will be there, theCUBE is there, it's relevant, we're going to be tracking all the signal, and extracting it from the noise and sharing it with you. It's a wrap up of the cryptocurrency token economics decentralized internet at Polycon 18, here in the Bahamas, thanks for watching. I want to thank all the crew here, great job, and you guys watching. More to come! Stay tuned, check out siliconangle.com, thecube.net, and wikibon.com, of course, CubeCoin coming soon, stay tuned for what we're doing love to tokenize that business, everyone's doing it, it's really relevant and thanks for watching. (upbeat electronic music)