>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back. I'm stew Minuteman, and this is we've actually reached the end of the cubes coverage of VM World 2020. Hard to believe. 11 years we've done lots of interviews here has been great to be able to engage with the audience talk, talk to the executives, talk some customers, but saving one more for you. So happy to welcome to the program is the first time on the Cube. But we've been talking to him since they came out of stealth. So I have the co founder and CEO of Minhai. Oh, and that is a non Babu Harry Asami A B. So nice to see you. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank >>you too. Thank you for having me on the show. >>Alright. So we love when we get to talk to the founders of companies were gonna dig into your company. But before we do just frame for us, you're not really high performance. I Oh, I oh, is in the name of your company. Um, men might make me think that there's some miniaturization, but give us the VM Ware connection. Obviously, VM Ware talked a lot about Cloud this week. They've talked about going deep into a I and computing. So we know this ecosystem has changed a lot in the 11 years that we've been covering it. Tell us how you and your company high end >>sounds good. Yeah. So men in many of those stands for minimalism right somehow in the enterprise like it has always been like shiny, heavy, complex things, find complex solutions to simple problems and charge them a lot. That has been the trend in the past, right? That's what Cloud has recent in the Enterprise and men on mini Iot is actually about solving that data storage problem. A very large scale. And the solution is like find simple solutions to complex problems. And we grew in the cloud in the both in the public and Private Cloud, and we are now the fastest growing object storage for the private cloud. And now we, um, we're coming into the government, the territory we actually CVM where is set to lead the kubernetes race. And in the Cooper Natives, if you look for an object storage pretty much, many ways standard. And this is where we bring our ecosystem toe. Be aware. And we, um where brings the enterprise market of cloud And this is the start off the private cloud. In the long run, I think public and private cloud will look alike. >>Yeah, absolutely. We've We've been writing about this for for for for many years a b We saw the enterprises taking on more of the characteristics of the hyper scholars, the hyper scholars. Of course, they're coming more to the enterprise. Ah, lot of discussion about hybrid and multi cloud these days. But what I want you to explain a little bit when? When When when your company was formed. You talk about, you know, doing these kubernetes environment. You do partner with AWS and azure, but ah, lot of what you do is on premises and that strikes people as a little bit unconventional in the thing. Or definitely 2017 and even for 2020. So help us understand. You know what it is exactly that you know the technology bring and why you think it's the fit for if you extend making private cloud on par with public. >>Yeah, it's not surprising to us at all, but it made no sense when we started with the rest of the world, right? Even the investors like not our other investors but the typical venture community toe the rest of the world. They thought that an object storage if it is not useful inside AWS, there is no use but an object storage at all. And we our question was very simple that the amount of data the world will produce in the next 10 years bulk off the data. Where is it going to be? Right? And it's not going to be in the public cloud. And it didn't sound obvious back then, right? And we saw that in the long run, public and private cloud will look alike but bulk of the data if it's going to be generated outside AWS while AWS s three sets the standard, the rest of the world what are they going to do? So many who was raised to be the S three for the rest of the world and the rest of the world is the biggest market. And back then there was no private cloud. There was public cloud and public cloud. What meant only AWS, right? And this was not so long ago. We're talking like 56 years, right? And then soon multi cloud came from multi cloud private cloud came what really accelerated. This is basically kubernetes and containers, right? In fact, containers started the trend and then Coburn It has accelerated it further nowadays. If you if you see why it's no longer a dream, are a faith based model, right, it's actually we're we're talking about, like a $540,000. Actually, 540,000 doctors pulled a day, right? And 400 like 400 well million or so Dr Pools in aggregate. That shows that the entire industry has changed, and it's already the Coburn. It is even public or private cloud. It is the one hybrid infrastructure layer, and now it has now it's no longer private Cloud is that question right? And customers are now able to move between public and private cloud. The trend is hybrid hybrid cloud. I think it's irreversible. >>Alright, you talked about Dr Poles and the code there, so let's make sure our audience understand exactly what you are. Sounds like your software sounds like open source is a piece of it. Help us understand. You know how you fit with Because if we're talking about object storage, there's gotta be some infrastructure underneath that. What does mean I owe provide and where do you turn to the partners? >>Yeah, so just like server less, it means that it's not like there is no server, right? It's about a software problem. Similarly, storage right When store when object storage is containerized, we still need drives, right? That is where VM ware V Sand comes. Descends Job is to virtualized the physical layer toe the basically container layer. But end of the day if you see the it is a software problem and what may I would just like a database would solve the metadata data store problem. I mean, I will solve the blob data problem. And in the public, cloud object storage is the foundational piece. It is the primary storage, but we saw this as a software problem, and when customers started building these applications, they actually containerized their application and use Cooper notice to roll out their application infrastructure. And when they do that, they cannot possibly by a hardware appliance on the public cloud. And even on the on the private cloud, they when they when they completely orchestrate two containers, they cannot roll out hardware appliances. This is where the the industry the cloud native community always saw this as a software problem. It was obvious to them for the enterprise I t it was not so clear. And the storage industry giants, if you see everyone off them is a hardware appliance play, and they are in for a total shock. And we were basically as a as reset with their seven or to update one, if there is a lot of interesting things to come. >>All right, So if if I understand Here you sit from a VM Ware environment, I've got V sand underneath. I've got Tangguh above, and you're you're providing that object service in between. So for our for our friends in the in the channel market on when thinking about gear, anything that V san can sit on, you just can come along for the ride. Do I have that right? >>Yeah. So underneath the sand is basically bunch of J boards, right? These are like Dell and HP servers with the drives in them on This is not a hardware appliance anymore, right? You look at the storage market, it is. Stand our NASA plans. That is how the enterprise I t operated not in the club world. And as we and we're moves into the cloud world, everything looks cloud native and in this case, the sand. NASA plans have no role to play. Even the object storage hardware appliance has no role to play because we and we're becomes the end where Visa becomes the new block storage layer. And then they have positioned object storage database. Everything as a data data store are a data persist since layer. So only this software only the software that is contained race gets to play on top of, um, where in the new World, including the storage itself. And it's No, there is no appliance here. >>All right, so and your your solution is is listed as kubernetes kubernetes native. So now you mentioned VCR seven, VCR seven, update one Now house full kubernetes support. I'm assuming Then you can plug into tansy you you can plug into, uh, Amazon Azure. Other kubernetes options out there. Is that the case? >>Yeah, So from a customer point of view, right? If you are on the enterprise, I d. Environment Now from I t administrator point off you. Nothing changes much other than from the V Center console itself. You now get to see me, and I will in in the first suspend data services. You click and deploy entirely as a software without even learning to spell Cooper notice. You can build a private cloud storage multi tenant exactly like how public cloud storage outrage. And that is from the private cloud point a few right, and it's purely software. You're not waiting for six months, but the hardware to arrive and long procurement cycles and provisioning all that is now provisioned as a software container. In just five minutes, you can actually set up a private cloud in Prospector. That's for the private cloud, right? But why? The reason why customers want this to be a software problem is they roll out their software on the on the private cloud on the public cloud for burst, wear clothes and sustained work clothes on private cloud burst workloads on public cloud. Noncritical jobs are anything that is fast moving on, convenience based. They push it to public cloud. Customers do want tohave one leg here and one like there. And nowadays even the edge on decentralized on the from the telco space toe video on other other areas even the edges now growing toe. They want a your software solution. The entire data center software is now containerized. They can roll out Public cloud Our private cloud are on the edge On with me No, we solve the data side the compute side Then we're already has done a wonderful job on the networking side. They have done it on on the beast on the storage site dated the physical toe container layer movies. And now the data storage part is what we solved. Now what does this do to the end user? Now they can build software and truly deploy on public private our age without any modification on entirely it is a software problem. This >>great. What do you find? Or some of the more prevalent use cases, you know, sitting on top, What applications or the key ones that people are deploying your solution for >>Yeah, So in the public cloud, if you see, that's that. That's actually a good place to start if you see in the public cloud, right, starting from even simple static website hosting toe aml, big data, workloads toe. Even the modern databases like Snowflake, for example is built on object storage in the public cloud. It has become a truly horizontal play. And that is how it started right there. W started with history and then came everything else. And now that trend is beginning to percolate into the enterprise. And surprisingly, we found that the enterprise was the explosion of data. Growth is actually not about like cat videos, right? What? What are these touring? Mostly We found that bulk of the data that is drowning that crisis messing generated data. And these are basically like some kind of log data event data data streams that are continuously produced on that actually can grow from 10 terabytes to 10 petabytes in a very short time. This is where clearly object storage has become the right choice, just like in the public cloud. But customers are now adopting object storage as the primary storage and now multiple applications. Whether it is the cloud native applications in like the Hangzhou Application Service like spring boot and like all the clothes on re stack from their toe. So all the m l big data workloads pretty much everybody has been verging to object storage as there foundation. >>Yeah, absolutely. You seen some of those use cases very prevalent here in the VM Ware community. I heard you talking about it. I was expecting to hear you talk about Splunk data protection, something that's been a big topic of conversation in the last few years. Obviously, VM Ware has a number of key partners. So I'm assuming many of those air who you are also working with. >>Look, it felt good broad Splunk Splunk itself is actually is an important move that what we did recently with VM where finally we can run Splunk natively on BM where at large scale and without any performance penalty and at a price point that it becomes really attractive Now comparing Splunk Cloud, where's the Splunk on Prem? We can actually show like at least like one third off what it would cost to run on Splunk load. So I don't know Splunk themselves would like it, But I think Splunk as a company would like what customers like, right? And this is where Splunk actually now can sit on many, many us, all the all their data stores. They call it smart store underneath underneath me. I will now, when the previous original Visa incarnation, we couldn't actually your huge amounts of data. But now, with the visa and direct, we actually have access to the local drives and you can attach as many drives as you want. Then if you want more capacity, more more number of servers so you can pack thousands and thousands off drives at a price point that even public cloud cannot be anywhere closer. And this is actually important. Yeah, environment for the Splunk customers. Because for them, not only the cost right, even the data is sensitive for them. They cannot really, really push it to the public cloud data generated outside of the public cloud. If data generated inside Public Cloud, probably Amazon has their own solution, and Splunk cloud makes sense. But when data is produced outside, these are sensitive data and it's huge volume, and they produce on an average, like the kind of users VCs center about. It's a day on on, then it's only growing at an accelerated pace. And this is where the Visa and Direct and Mini Oh, you can now bring that workload onto the number. Finally, the ICTY can control the control, the Splunk deployments. This is something important for I t right in the past, if you see big data workloads always ran on bare metal and silos, something I d hated right This time it is flexible that it's not just flexible, exactly gets better. >>Well, it sure sounds like the technology maturation has finally caught up on the VM ware standpoint with the vision that you and the team had. So give us a little bit. Look forward now that you've got kubernetes really being embraced by VM where on and starting to see maturation in this space. Where do we go from here? >>So we were actually, If you see what they brought to the table this time, they didn't actually catch up with others, right? Typically, the innovation in the recent times happened in the open source space and then the large vendors will come and innovate. Startups and open source started the innovation large, large. When the large winters come in later. But this time around, remember, actually did the innovation part and these and direct. It's actually a big step forward in the Covenant of CSE space. And the reason why it's a big step is C s A. Traditionally is designed for the sand gnats vendors and using the same C s. A model, remember, was able to bring in large work clothes and that allowed entirely to use the local drive possibility. Right now it moving forward. What What we will see. What were said to see is the cloud native workload. Actually a ran as a silo in the Enterprise, right? There was big data workloads. There was the applications team that ran Cooper knitters and containers on their own. There are on their on their own develop shop on enterprise. I'd ran the idea introspect These three were not connected on finally this time around. By bringing cover natives native into the I T infrastructure, there is going to be a convergence. You will not. The silos will get eliminated. Big data, big data workloads, ml wear clothes on bare metal will now come toe come toe. Then I will be aware that the Governor disk combination and you will see the the coordinative applications space. They will hand over the physical layer infrastructure onto the VM Ware e and everybody coming together. I think it's the best. Big step forward. >>Well, maybe. I sure hope you're right. We love to see the breaking down of silos. Things coming together. We've been a little bit concerned over the last few years that we're rebuilding the silos in the cloud. We've got different skill sets different there, but we always love some good tech optimism here, uh, to say that we're gonna move these sorts of Thank you so much. Great to catch up with you and definitely look forward to hearing more from you and your customers in the future. >>Thank you to this. Wonderful to be on your show. >>All right. We want to thank everybody for joining VM World 2020 for day. Volonte John, for your big thanks to the whole production team and of course, VM Ware and our sponsors for helping us to bring this content to you. As always, I'm stew Minuteman and thank you for joining us on the Cube

>> What? Welcome to a special keep conversation here in Palo Alto. Shot for host of the Cube. The Palo Alto Studios here in Palo Alto. Where here With Adam Casella, CEO and co founder of Snap Route and Glenn Sullivan, Cofounder. Snap. Right, guys, Good to see you. Thanks for coming on. So, you guys are a hot startup launching you guys? Former apple engineers, running infrastructure, I would say large scale an apple, >> just a little bit >> global nature. Tell the story. What? How did you guys start the company? We did it all come from the apple. A lot of motivation to see a lot there. You seeing huge trends? You'd probably building your own stuff. What was that? What was the story? >> So, yeah, basically way. We were running a large external stuff at Apple. So think of you know, anything you would use his user, Siri maps, iTunes, icloud, those air, the networks that Adam and I were responsible for keeping up, keeping stable on DH. You know, there was a lot of growth. So this is pretty twenty fifteen. We started snapping on August twenty fifteen, so it's a big growth period for, you know, icloud. Big growth period for iTunes. Lots of users, lots of demand. Sort of lots of building infrastructure in sort of a firefighting mode on DH. One of the things that occurred is that we needed to move to more of, you know, infrastructure kind of building out as you need it for capacity. If you start talking to the folks up the road, you know, with Facebook and Google and Microsoft and all those folks, you realize that you have to kind of build it, and then they will come. You can't really always be reactionary and building these kind of bespoke artisanal networks, right? So him and I had to come at it from both a architectural apology network kind of network engineering, geeky kind of level, and also from an automation orchestration. Visibility standpoint. So we pretty much had to do a Nen tire reimagining of what we were building as we were going to build these new networks to make sure we could could anticipate capacity and deploy things before you know it was necessary. >> Yeah, and make sure that the network is agile, flexible enough to respond to those needs, and change isn't required. >> You mentioned. The surge came around time for twenty, twelve, twenty, thirteen, different exactly apples been around for a while, so they had. They were buying boxes and start racking and stacking for years. So they have applications probably going back a decade, of course. So as Apple started to really, really grow Icloud and the iPhone seven, you still got legacy. So how did you guys constantly reshaped the network without breaking it with some of the things that you guys saw? That was successful because it's kind of a case study of, you know, you know, the next level without breaking >> anything. Yeah, did when migration was interesting, uh, essentially into doing it. She start attacking it for the legacy environments as Iraq. Iraq process, right? You gotta figure out what applications better most easily be able to move and start with the low hanging fruit first so you could start proving out the concept that you're talking about. You try with the hardest aspect or the Horace Apt to move. You're going to get it with a lot of road block. If my you might actually fail potentially and you won't get what you need where you need to go if you took, took some low hanging fruit applications that can easily migrate between, you know, an old environment and new environment. >> It's not dissimilar to environments where things are acquisition heavy, like we've got some friends at some other Silicon Valley companies that are very active. You know, acquisition heavy, right? It's It's a company that's one name on the outside, but it's twenty thirty different Cos on the inside, and what they typically end up doing is they end up treating each one of those as islands of customers, and they build out a core infrastructure, and they treat themselves more like an ice pick. So if you if you Khun, meld your environment where you're more like a service provider and you're different legacy applications and new applications arm or you know customers, then you're going to end up in a better situation and that we did a little bit of that, you know, at Apple, where they have, you know, really, really core service provider, head the type. You know, if a structure with all of these different customers hanging >> off his isolation options there. But also integration, probably smoother. If you think it was a service provider. >> DeMarcus solid right and clear. >> So talk about the nature you got cloud experts. I'll see infrastructure experts. You're really in the The Deep Dev ops movement as it goes kind of multi and agree because he got storage, networking and compute the holy trinity of infrastructure kind. All changing on being reimagined. Storage isn't going away. More data is being stored. Networks need to be programmable on DH, Secure and Computers unlimited. Now it's naming all kinds of innovation. So you're seeing companies, whether it's the department defense with the Jed I contract trying to. You're the best architecture on enterprise that might have a lot of legacy trying to re imagine the question of what to do around multi cloud and data center relationships. What's your perspective on this phenomenon? OK, we have tohave scale, so we have a little bit on Prem or a lot of fun. Prem, We'll have cloud and Amazon maybe cloud over Microsoft, so it's really gonna be multiple clouds. But is it simply the answer of multiple clouds just for the sake of being multi cloud? Or is there a reason for Multi Cloud is reason for one cloud. You sure? Your perspective on the >> sure it's it it's the thought might be that it's kind of most important have one overarching strategy that you adapt to everything, and that's sort of true, right? We'd say, Okay, well, we're going to standardize something like you, Bernetti. So we're gonna have one Cuban, these cluster and that Cubans cluster is going to run in desert. It's got running. Google is going to run in, you know, on Prem and all that. It's actually less important that you have one fabric or one cluster, one unified way to manage things. What's more important is that you standardize on a tool set and you standardize on a methodology. And so you say, Okay, I need to have an orchestration later. Find that's communities. You have a run time environment for my container ization. Sure, that's Dr or whatever other solutions you wantto have. And then you have a P structures that used to program these things. It's much more important that all those things they're standardized that then they're unified, right? You say I have Cooper Natives control, and I'm gonna control it the same way, whether it's a desert, whether it's in Google Cloud or whether or not it's on Prem. That's the more important part. Rather than say, I have one big thing and I try to manage so to your point, >> by having that control point that's standard with all the guys allows for. The micro services camp allows for all these new agile and capabilities. Then it becomes the cloud for the job. Things are exactly Office three sixty five. Why not use Azure? >> Yeah, I mean, that's the whole problem with doing like technology. Pick technology sake. Technology doesn't solve problems. Old is maybe a, you know, piece technologies to peace technology. And I think it's why you look at like, cloud native communities and doctor and and you know why Dr initially had a lot more struggle and widely more successful after you, Seymour, that cloud that have come out there because cloud native put a process around how you could go ahead and ensure these things. We deployed in a way that was easily managed, right? You have C I. D for I want my container. But out there, I have a way to manage it with communities in this particular pipeline and have a way to get it deployed. Without that structure, you're going to be just doing technology for technology sake. >> Yeah, and this is modernizing, too. So it's a great point about the control point. I want to just take it the next level, which is, you know, back when I was breaking into the business, the word multi vendor was a word that everyone tossed around every multi vendor. Why we need choice choices good. While choice down streams always, it was always something. There's an option. More optionality, less of a reality, so obvious is good. No one wants the vendor locking unless you It's affordable and spine, right? So intel chips a lock in, but no one ever cares, processes stuff and moves on. Um, so the notion of multi vendor multi cloud How do you guys think about that? As you look at the architectural changes of a modern compute, modern stories modern network facility, >> I think it's really important. Tio, go back to what you said before about office three sixty five, right? Like why would you run that? Other places other than deserve rights, got all the tools. Lt's. It's really, really critical that you don't allow yourself to get boxed into a corner where you're going to the lowest common denominator across all the platforms, right? So so when you're looking at multi cloud or hybrid cloud solution, use what's best for what you're doing. But make sure that you've got your two or three points that you won't waver on right like communities like AP Integration like whatever service abstraction layers that you want right? Focus on those, but then be flexible to allow yourself to put the workloads where they make sense. And having mobile workloads is the whole point to going into the Qatar having a multi cloud strategy anyway. Workload mobility is key >> workloads and the apse of Super Port. You mentioned earlier about ass moving around, and that's the reality, correct. If that becomes the reality and is the norm than the architecture has to wrap around it, how did you advise and how do you view that of unfolding? Because if data becomes now a very key part of a workload data, considerable clouds late and see comes. And now here you go, backto Leighton Sea and laws of physics. So I just start thinking about the network and the realities of moving things around. What do you guys see as a A so directionally correct path for that? >> Sure. So I kind of see if you look if you break down, OK? You have storage, You have network. You have, You know, applications, right? And I heard something that from a while ago actually agree with that. I says, you know, Dad is the new soil, right? And I look at that, OK, That that is new soil. Then guess what network is the water and the applications air seats. And if you have missing one of those, you're not going to end up with a with a, you know, a growing plants. And so if you don't have the construct of having all these things managed in a way that you could actually keep track of all of them and make them work in chorus, you're going to end up where e Yeah, I could move my application to, you know, from point A to point B. But now it's failed. Haven't they? Don't have connectivity. I don't have storage. Or I can go out there and I have storage and, you know, no connectivity or kind. Give me and, you know, missing one. Those competed on there and you don't end up with a fully functioning you know, environment that allows you >> so. The interplay between stories, networking and compute has to be always tightly managed or controlled to be flexible, to manage whatever situation when I was growing >> and you gotta have the metadata, right, like, you've got to be able to get this stuff out of the network. That's why that's why what we're doing it's not proud is so critical for us is because you need to have the data presented in a way, using the telemetry tools of choice that give you the information to be able to move the workloads appropriately. The network can't be a black box, just like in the in the storage side. This storage stuff can't be a black box, either, right? You have to have the data so that you could place the workload is appropriately >> okay. What's your guy's thesis for a snapper out when you guys started the company? What was the the guiding principle or the core thesis? And what core problem did you solve? So answer the question. Core problem. We solve his blank. What is that? >> So I think the core problem we solve is getting applications deployed faster than they ever have been right And having making, doing, making sure it's not a secure way in an efficient way. Operationally mean those air, basically, what the tenants of what we're trying to solve a what we're going for. And, uh the reason for is that today the network is withholding back the business from being able to employ their applications faster, whether it be in a polo sight, whether it be local on data center or whether being, you know, in the cloud from, you know, their perspective connectivity between their local, on prep stuff on whatever might be in, you know, eight of us is ordered >> Google and enabling that happened in seamlessly so that the network is not in the way or >> yeah. So if you could now see what's happened on the network and now you can have control over that aspect of it, you do it in a way. It's familiar to people who are deploying those applications. They now have that ability to place those work clothes intelligently and making sure that they can have the configuration of activity that they need for those applications. >> Okay, so I say I said, You guys, Hey, I'm solvent. Assault, sold. I love this. What do I do next? How doe I engage with you guys, Do I buy software? So I loaded Bokkelen infrastructure. What's the What's the snap route solution? >> So so the first part of the discussions, we talk about hardware. Obviously, we don't make our own hardware. That's the whole point of this allegation. Is that you by the harbor from somebody else? Andi, you buy the software from us, so there's a lot of times of the initial engagements. There's some education that goes on about this is what this aggregation means, and it's very, very similar to what we saw in the computer world, right? You had your classic, you know, environments where people were buying. You know, big iron from HP and Dell and IBM and Sun and everybody else, right? But now they can get it from, you know, ziti and kwon and sort of micro and and whoever else and they wouldn't They would really think of buying software from those same companies. Maybe some management software, but you're not going to buy your licks version from the same people that you're buying your harbor from. So once we explain and kind of educate on that process and some folks that are already learning this, the big cloud providers already figuring this out, then it's a matter of, you know, here's the software solution and here's howto >> be a threat to civilians getting what? My plugging into my connecting to certain systems, how would I just deploy? It will take me through the use case of installing it. What is it? Connect to >> shirt. So you have your white box top Iraq device or, you know, switching my on there. You load our code on there. We used only to initially deploy the stuff on there on. Then you can go. You can go ahead and load all the containers on. They're using things like helm and pulling it from harbor. Whether that be exciting, if you have locally or internally or you Khun bundling altogether and loaded in one particular image and then you can start, you know, interacting with that cabinet is a P I. To go ahead and sort of computing device. Additionally, we'll make sure this is clear to people who are, you know, networking guys going on. Cooper. Netease. God, what is all this? I never heard of this stuff. We supply a full fledged CIA, lied. It looks and feels just like you want a regular network device toe act as a bridge from what you do, those guys are comfortable with today to where the future is going to be a and it sits on top of that same apia. >> So network as we're comfortable with this correct that's going >> and they get to do stuff using cloud native tools without worrying about, you know, understanding micro services or continue ization. They now have the ability to pull contenders off, put new containers on in a way that they would just normally use. Is he alive? >> I want to get you guys thoughts on a trend that we've been reporting on and kind of coming on the Cube. And I certainly have been a lot from past couple years past year. Particular covering this cloud native since the C in C S Koo coupon was starting, were there when that kind of started. Developers, we know that world develops a scene and agile, blah, blah, blah, All that good stuff. Networking guys used to be the keys, have keys thinking they were gods. You're networking engineer. Oh, yeah, I'm the guy saying No, All the time I'm in charge. Come through me. But now the world's flipped around. Applications need the network to do what it wants yet. Right. So you start to see program ability around networks. Let's go live. We saw the trend. The trend there is definite there. Developer programs growing really, really fast. He started. See networking folks turned into developers. So youjust smart ones do. And the networking concepts around provisioning is that you see service measures on top of you. Burnett. He's hot. So you start to see the network. Parent Policy based this policy based that program ability Automation. It's kind of in the wheelhouse of a network person. Yeah, your guys. Thoughts on the evolution of the developer, The network developer. Is it really? Is it hyped up? Is that and where's ago? So >> we're going back to where we're networking originated from right. Developers started networking. I mean, let's not forget that right. It wasn't done by some guy who says I have a sea lion. I'm going now that work's work. Know someone had to write the code. Someone have deployed out there. But eventually you got to those guys where they went to particular vendors and those systems became or closed. And they weren't able to go ahead and have that open ecosystem that we, you know, has been built on the compute side. So that's kind of, um it does say, or, you know, hindered those particular that industry from growing, right. Never going. She's been hindered by this. We have been able to do an open ecosystem to get that operational innovation in there. So as we've moved on further and now as we get that, you know, those people saying no. Hey, you can't do anything. No, no, no. We have the keys to the castle. We're not gonna let you through here. The devil's guys, we're going when we still need to. The player applications are business still needs to move forward, So we're going to go around. And you could see that with some of the early ESPN solutions going on there says, you know what? I figure like that we just exist. Okay. Tunnel we're going to go over you. That day is coming to an end. But we're not going to go do that long termers air going on here because that efficiency there, the overhead there is really, really high. So as we start going on further, we're good. I have to pull back in tow. When we originally started with networking where you have people will use that open ecosystem and develop things on there and start programming the networks to match what's happened with the applications. So I see it. Something just >> clicked in your thoughts. >> Yes. So the smart network engineers, the guys and girls out there that want to be progressive and, you know, really adapt themselves are going to recognize that their value add isn't in being a SEAL I jockey and cutting and pasting from their playbooks in their method. They're forty eight page method of procedures that they've written for how to upgrade this chassis. Right. Um, your your expertise is an operational, you know, run time. Your your expertise is an operational best practice, right? So you need to just translate that. Lookit communities, looking operators, right, operators, existing communities to bake in operational intelligence and best practices into a bundle deployment, Right? So translate that. Right? So what's the best way to take this device out of service and do an upgrade? It's us step. It's a method of procedures translating that new acumen and his operator to put that in your communities bundle Senate in your image. You're good to go like this is. The translation has happened there. There is an interim step right. You know, our friends over at answerable are friends and puppet, insult and chef and all. They've got different ways to control. You know, traditional see allies using, you know, very, very kind of screen scraping, pushing the commands down and verifying getting output in changing that, it's possible to do it that way. It's just really painful. So what we're saying is, why don't you just do it? Natively use the tool like an operator and then put your intelligence into design operational intelligence layout like do that level instead of, you know, cutting and pasting >> for so developers are it's all developers. Now it's emerged together. Now you have open >> infrastructure is code right? >> Infrastructures code? Yeah, everything >> Israel programmer, I mean, but you can't you can't and I want to make sure it's already clear to include was saying that you can't get away from the guys who run networks and what they've seen experienced that they've had so but they need to now take that to his point and making it something that you actually can develop in code against and actually make into a process that can be done over and over again. Not just words on paper. >> That's what I think they were. Developer angles. So really, it's about translating operational efficiencies into the network into code because to move APS around do kind of dynamic provisioning and containing all the services that are coming online. >> And you can only do that if you've actually taking a look at what how the network operating systems architected and adopt a new approach of doing it because the legacy, ways of doing it don't work here >> and getting an operation from like what you guys were approached. Your strategy and thesis is having OS baked as close to the network as possible for the most flexible on high performance. Nice thing. Secure abstraction, layers, first proxies and >> simple it down >> with that great guys. Thanks. And good luck on eventually keep will be following you. Thanks for the conversation. Thank you for your conversation here in Palo Alto. I'm John for you're talking networking cloud native with snap route. Launching a new operating system for networks for cloud native. I'm John Forget. Thanks for watching.