>> Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube. Covering AWS re:Inforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web services and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. It's the Cube's live coverage in Boston, Massachusetts for Amazon Webster's AWS re:Inforce: their first inaugural conference around security, cloud security. I'm John Furrier with my host Dave Vellante. If you're talking about security, you can not talk about cybersecurity, how it impacts government, society and commercial. We've got two great guests here from Telos, leader in cyber out of D.C. AJ Turcot, business development, and Tom Ryder, VP of commercial sales at Telos. Great to see you guys. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you, John- (A.J. talks over) >> Thanks, John, great to be here. >> I've been intrigued by Telos over the years. One, great company you guys, so congratulations. John Wood is phenomenal CEO. He's been hanging around for a long, long time. He's seen many cyber waves in security. You guys have a lot of experience. Now, we're talking about modernization of government. A week and a half ago we were at AWS Public Sector Summit which is this show in DC with Theresa Carlson's team. That's all about modernizing government, public sector, procurement, modernization in technology cloud. Here, the security conference feels the same kind of vibe for security. Not so much modernization but kind of level up, get faster, get better, get stronger. You know, everything's great, now lets go do it. So, similar kind of experience. You guys are in the middle of both those worlds. >> Yes. >> What's your impression? Are these coming together? Are they two separate? What's your impression of the show? >> Uh. It's, security is job zero. People have been saying that for a long time. The rubber's meeting the road now. You can see, this is, this wouldn't have been this big years ago. So, we're happy to be here and be part of this. Our company has been focused on cybersecurity since the word 'go'. And we're definitely seeing you can't do modernization without baking security in. Everybody gets it. It's not a bow tie any more. Wouldn't you say? >> Absolutely and it goes from the software development of the life cycle all the way up the stack. Little anecdote, John has been around for a long time. He's actually in the, and he'll hate me for saying this, but he's the longest standing CEO of a company in Virginia right now at 25 years. (laughter) We've been around for a long time. We understand cyber security and we've seen it morph as the various platforms have evolved. But, definitely a great show. A lot of vendors: some new, some old. We meet some friends that were with one that are now with another. And asking them why they changed and they say, "Well, the old school and the new school, different methodologies, different ways to approach it." But the problem fundamentally stays the same. >> Everyone else uses the old guard, uses the term 'old guard, new guard.' That's Jazzy and Theresa's word. But it really is about the transformation of that all companies are becoming security companies. They say that about media. All companies are becoming media companies. You inherently have in this horizontal impact of security. It used to be that this firms does security. You hire them and they come in, they do the job. But now, to where you got to bake it in, you start to see the brands: Microsoft, all these brands that were once software companies in general purpose areas really getting deeper into security. And then companies themselves like Capital One, Liberty Mutual, they're building out. >> Right. >> And potentially now turning it from a cost center to a revenue center. So, the model's upside down right now in a good way. What's that doing to the industry? And do you believe that it's happening then too? What do you see happening? >> The challenge in front of us right now is security has to keep up the pace and the scale of the cloud and the modern world. I know that we've had to change our tunes in our product suite to be able to, you know, test and demonstrate compliance at pace and at scale. Otherwise, you're just slowing down development. I mean, the real beauty of the cloud is, uh, the speed at which you can fail, recover, get the feedback loop, move forward and security's now at that pace and I think you'll see around here the companies that are offering that, not just a new coat of paint on a traditional offering are going to excel in this space. >> Well, this is why I like what you guys do because you talk to practitioners. They say their number one challenge is how to keep up with that pace. I mean, you could talk to one person at Amazon and no one person knows all the services or they think 'Oh, Amazon doesn't have that or oh, yes they do have that." So, having a partner like you guys to help navigate that pace of change is critical. So, how have you made that, you know, a tailwind for you guys. And what are customers telling you that they need help with? >> Uh, what we, our end of it, the piece of the elephant we touch, >> Yeah. is, um, the customers are allowed to use the cloud. They're encouraged to use the cloud. They're going to school to get trained and certified. But you can't go at this pace unless you are authorized. Right? You need permission. Nobody's allowed to put in the plug without their permission. And that's where our end of it is. And we've had to really retool to go at this cloud pace. I've been at Telos for over nineteen years and it's exciting now. And when we had the opportunity to go into the commercial side of things, I really lept at that because we're now building, you know, as I said, tooling out to keep at this pace of 'how do I test? Don't be a detractor. Don't be a slower-downer.' and, you know, it's the way we got to be. >> Take a minute to explain your product offerings for the commercial sector. What are you guys offering? What's the value proposition? >> Sure, um, our product suite is called Exacta. It's a mature product in the fed space. It's been around for nineteen years. And it's in very wide use in the fed space to operationalize their assessment and authorization: the NIST risk management framework. We're now seeing NIST cybersecurity standards are getting a lot of traction in spaces outside the fed. If you're a software company like we see around here, you want to business in the fed, you got to get a fed ramp authorization. Exacta's tooled to do that now. We're seeing state and local government embracing NIST cybersecurity standards. The defense industrial base has NIST 800-171. It's built into the defense acquisition regulations. You need to corporately meet these security controls. So, you know, it's not just for an agency on its own anymore. Everyone's getting in the game. >> So those standards are moving to commercial? >> Yes. >> You guys were baked out, bulletproof hardened product you're bringing that into commercial? >> And I would say if you take spreadsheets off the table, Exacta is the number one NIST cybersecurity automation and management platform. >> Yes. >> Spreadsheets will always be number one. It's like- >> Spread sheets are dead sheets >> Other than the pie chart. (mumbling) >> Right, right. >> So, you know, it used to be, and I'm wondering if it still is, the public sector would look to the commercial for sort of best practice, they might be a little slower to adopt things, and there's certainly examples of that today. You see Theresa at public sector announces something that maybe Amazon announced a year ago and now it's available public sector. But the cloud feels a little bit different. You've had cloud first mandates, things like Jedi. Is that trend changing? You just sort of gave us an example where certification's bringing that up to commercial, Is there still a wide gap between commercial adoption and public sector adoption? >> Well, I think one thing that we see is a lot of commercial or government entities built data centers because they had to. Right? Now, you see entities that have, you know, big robust data center infrastructure, they like what they do in there but not necessarily keeping up that data center. So, they're looking, they're all going to the cloud in varying degrees of speed. But nobody wants to be in the data center business like they used to. >> Charles Phillips from Infor says, 'friends don't let friends build data centers." >> Data centers, right. (laughter) >> That's right. AJ, how about some customer use cases and examples where you guys are helping them? What's their challenge? Give us some real-world experiences. >> Sure, sure. So, one of the industries that's highly regulated is financial industry. And, you know, we talk about healthcare with HIPAA, and different regulations. But in financials, they're really hit from regulatory bodies throughout the country. And they can change from state to state and a lot of times it just piles on top. So, one of the main issues that these companies face is audit fatigue. Internal audit teams to make sure they're compliant, external audit requests that come in, and they're really looking for a way to reduce this audit fatigue. One of the ways of doing it is to operationalize as we do with out tool, the systems internally to make sure that you can be compliant and, I'll throw out a phrase here, we believe strongly that you apply good cybersecurity hygiene, a byproduct of that will be compliance. So if foundationally things are good and you're taken care of cybersecurity from the get go, you know, you might have to tweak a few things to demonstrate compliance but you will be able to comply to many different regulatory products. >> So being built in from the beginning. >> Being baked in, right. So, what this particular organization, they've been around for a hundred years, they're in the financial sector, they've got a lot of regulations and state to state, as I mentioned, are different, they were really looking, and they use all the tools, they've got them all. They have data centers. They have one of the largest networks outside of the defense in the country. So they're quite big. And they were really feeling this audit fatigue. Eight hundred auditors working day in and day out to get, to meet these requirements are thrown at them. We're able to help them take the process from months to weeks. So, just there, there's an economy of time as well. So, the resources can really go off and do what their mission is without having to, you know, daily deal with the grind of going through spreadsheets, for example. >> Yeah. >> And the different systems. >> Do you, do you discern any patterns in terms of can you get more specific on what they're doing with that freed up budget or the digital transformation. Are they developing apps? Are they retraining people? How, how are they dealing with that? >> Sure. In this particular case, a lot of training internally. And it's like moving a cruise ship, you know? >> Yeah. >> It doesn't turn on a dime so you have direction on the top. They take primary focus might change and they have study groups. Interesting about them is they don't make, they make group decisions. So, they do, they're very big on data analytics. They're all actuaries I guess and they're used to that. And they want to look at the value. And I think that's something that we see. That's a tendency we see throughout all the different industries we work with. The demonstration of value. So, it might be neat. It might be fun. It might be more secure, less secure. Do we accept the risk? What value does that bring to the organization? And what they've done through training, through trying to change the old guard, you know, it's also reorganizing their systems internally and how they do things. Not just tools. >> So you guys got to love the fact that Amazon decided to have a security focused show. I mean, every show Amazon does is security focused but dedicated. (mumbles) You were mentioning the other day that, you know, a lot of partners here, a lot of vendors, but actually it's very attendee heavy event. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> This is now like a huge COMDEX show floor. A lot of practitioners, sec ops guys, >> Yes. >> You know, developers. What are your thoughts on why Amazon did this? And your reaction to this. >> Well, Amazon has, you know, like we said, security is job zero for everyone at Amazon. They put their money where their mouth is. This was not an experiment. This was an eventuality. And, you know, there's zero doubt they're going continue to do this year on, year round. It's going to get bigger. >> Houston next year. >> Houston. >> Kind of an interesting choice: Houston. >> Yeah. >> It's going to be hot in June. >> Stay in the air conditioning. (lauging) >> I wish they'd stay in Boston. >> Yeah. >> I like Boston. >> I like Boston, too. >> Better than Houston. >> Yes. >> But the show is to your point, some dev ops and sec ops. So, again, there's bus dev folks here. >> Yep. >> You got geeks here. Not a lot of CEOs of big companies because it's not a glam converse. There's no big fanfare announcements. The announcements are pretty meaty: VPC traffic mirroring huge announcement, security you have general ability, not a surprise, but just smaller announcements. >> A lot of CSOs obviously. >> A lot of CSOs. >> Yeah, I'd say CSO in that vertical down. >> Yeah. >> The CSO, this is CSOs cloud security show. A lot of things getting invested in. Seems to be heavy activity. >> So, going into this when it was announced, you know, AJ and I had our hands up right away saing, "Let's do this." And then we get here and we're like 'okay, is this going to be a direct hit for us?' and I wouldn't say that everyone we talk to's a direct hit, but everyone that comes by the booth has some understanding of what we do. And there's been no wasted time. We're having a lot of good conversations. >> They're right where you guys are. They know what you do, the value to them. >> Right. >> All right, so here's a question for you on the show, given that you guys have this perspective so many years at Telos and cyber, shipping a great product, now commercial's changing cloud scale, cloud security, what do you think the most important stories are that should be told? That the media should be telling? Or maybe they are telling and need to be amplified. Or isn't being told that should be told. What are the top stories coming out of this event and this industry right now that should be told? >> I think that the two trends I'm seeing is that, like we said before, um, building and maintaining data centers is not, it's not cool anymore. And you see the trends of all these entities getting out from under that and they might be making a big commitment to the cloud or phasing out their data centers over time, but that is happening. And I want to read more about it because that helps us, you know, target who's going to be most receptive to our message. And then the other thing, like we said before, the security at scale and at pace. I know we've had to retool for it. The other companies here that are built for that are going to succeed. >> Yeah. >> There's an appetite for that. >> AJ, anything to add on that? >> Good point. No, very good point. At scale and to be able to pivot quickly and someone mentioned before to be able to fail, retool, start again. >> Yep. >> But to have, it's really essential to have security baked in. That confidentiality, integrity, availability of data, you know, the basics. >> You guys have partnered well with Amazon in the public sector now you're in commercial. Not a lot has changed. Amazon is still Amazon. Question for you is what are you guys think about what the opportunity is to differentiate is? You guys have your solution: speed and scale. Totally agree? (agreement) Size, speed, scale. You guys take the benefits of that by partnering with Amazon. But as it gets bigger and bigger, you guys still have to differentiate help customers. >> Yeah. >> How, how, what is the formula for success? You don't just do things, do a relationship saying "we're done" now collect the business. They're moving so fast that if you don't iterate on top of it you die seems to be the playbook. What do you guys think the value for ecosystem partners, the formula to be successful, what does that, what does that formula for, with an eighth of this cloud scale? >> Well, you know, everyone would just love to hitch your partner wagon to a, you know, something that's rising and not do a lot of work. But, that's not the way we roll. I think we get in a great partnership with Amazon because we have a lot of similarities, especially the customer obsession. You know, we want the customer to be successful and we ride along on that train. That's how we're successful. >> Great. Well, guys, congratulations, great to see you here. >> Likewise. >> It'll be a good journey. Cube's kicking off their security coverage at this event. Obviously cloud security changing the game. >> Yep. >> And it's got to level up with dev ops, agility. You guys have been doing. Thanks for sharing your insights. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Thanks for having us. >> It was terrific. >> Cube coverage continues here in Boston for AWS: reInforce. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay tuned for more coverage after this short break. (digital music)

live from the mandalay bay convention center in las vegas it's the cues covering vmworld 2016 rock you buy vmware and its ecosystem sponsors welcome back everyone we're live here in las vegas for vmworld 2016 where the mandalay bay convention center in the hang space winding down day three of three days of wall-to-wall coverage been a great vmworld i got to say it's been one of the best ever i've been to in the past seven years with the cube and a lot of great announcements i'm john ford's costume in this week and the two sets coming to an end our next guest final guest is a GF it tells the senior vice president of product development for vmware cloud services business unit welcome to the q great to see you thanks here great to be here I'm glad you spent the time to come on board here and talk to us so they had a lot of things going on it's been a cloudy picture these days and VMware certainly with the cloud strategy but also clearly in pat's keynote on Monday opening day and certainly Smoove announcements answer from Sanjay putin and others you see that coalescing around what the cloud strategy is for VMware it's not to have their own public cloud but to really be that cross cloud connector correct architectural II like Lego blocks are all snapping together nsx viste and all this that's working together so take a minute to just talk about which products that you guys have other in this new cloud business unit so first of all thank you for the opportunity i run a business unit we form last year called cloud providers software business unit the only reason for my existence now is to make software for service providers VMware last year made the shift from being our cloud service for let ourselves we cloud air to being enabling other cloud providers to build VMware base clouds and the result of the world the great work will be doing is vmware called foundation vmware car foundation is that packaging of compute network storage virtualized to build any cloud and IBM is an example of a week other network partner who is building out a vmware base cloud using the american foundation so think about the cloud and network as our distribution channel for standing up and delivering VMware IP for building clouds through their cloud services the two things the roots of VMware software-based absolutely and partnering absolutely you gotta say hey you know what do we go all in on cloud get distracted or do we go back to our roots data center right and let the cloud game play out that you have some time for a lot of your customers aren't fully going to public loud and they are in different forms absolutely absolutely a cloud needed startup life so I'll give an example right I have 4,200 service providers in might be caught our network 119 countries 99.5 percent temp covered with partners who have their capital deployed using VMware technology with their unique managed services show me one other cloud that's built on any other technology that has a scale this reach these kinds of services that's really what we call it a network is all about it's a big chest move I want you to just I'm going to ask it again so we can get it on camera here describe what the vCloud air network is yes so vCloud air network is 4,200 service providers in 119 countries delivering VMware compatible cloud the epitome of that is someone who's delivering a complete cloud built on vmware cloud foundation but many of my partners have vSphere base clouds vSphere plus NSX and when they take all the components of software-defined data center integrate them that's we can wear my cloud foundation and IBM is an example who said we're all in we're going to give you a full data center in minutes using VMware cloud foundation early in October announced a similar partnership with OVH Oviatt can stand up a STD see on demand in 60 minutes think about it your data center in 60 minutes on a public cloud fully compatible watch what you're running on from this is huge so AJ I'm wondering if you can for audience kind of give us a little compared and contrasted Oh VMware's really dominant in the enterprise data center you're talking about a you know a nice software stack that goes in the service providers would be it with the azure stack that Microsoft's talking about bringing out next year you know there's some similarities absolutely competitive yeah but the beauty for me 15 million Williams about fifteen percent of them are going to move to the cloud what's the simplest way for a customer take a VMware we em and move it to a public cloud our customers want to get other data center business they don't want to get out of vmware they want a private cloud experience in a public cloud setting and get it on demand VMware offers that with the stack we offered with vmware cloud foundation great well you know one of the you know interesting dynamics to watch in this vmware ecosystem is kind of the changing role in the channel now the channel has been critically important to you know really the beginning days of vmware um you know service providers is who you're working at you talk about kind of that dynamic there's some part of the channel that really understands cloud some are turning in service writers some work with service providers what do you see happening what's happening inside out so you know the marketplace of solution providers of ours we used to sell software and set it up and on Prem a service provider with a cloud holster and I called sis Oh who's trying to provide consulting or managed services on third-party cloud that's all blurring right my focus at the bu is on those guys building clouds but also reselling third-party services so the market is moving between build a cloud high-margin tap into third-party cloud services and deliver a complete cloud experience to our customers CPS be you might be you is really focused on those 4,200 service providers delivering that on the go-to-market side were shifting the company from a perpetual company to a subscription sales company so everything I do is subscription-based what we haven't told the market is weak area network is a couple hundred million dollar subscription business for us we grew twenty five percent year-on-year ten percent quarter-on-quarter this is huge you know there's a mid-year that everything is going to public cloud the reality is everything is going to a VMware managed cloud delivered through a week later Network well if those service providers can attract the onboarding of new customers absolutely the question we just thought with module earlier is that you know I look at like the iPhone the iPhone came out a whole new generation of that came on the iphone that was a growth spurt so if you look at all net new companies going starting right they'll probably start native on the cloud correct will they have a role for VMware absolutely as they're going to probably want to interface via their cloud all right so let's take your typical enterprise how much percentage of the development is net new development how much percent of the budget goes to net new app development don't know less than ten percent in a typical organization unless your netflix or uber and that is your business that is your budget so anywhere from five to fifty traditional enterprise about ten traditional enterprise correct right so ninety percent of the workload what customers saying is I want to be out of the data center business I want to free up that cost so i can put more money for net new development when they do that they first want to move to a public cloud hopefully a vmware managed service private cloud and then they're saying let me add new application with containers cloud service etc so i don't think it's VMware losses and the public clouds win it's an extension this is why we introduced cross cloud services yeah we're expecting customers to use public mega clouds and these VMware clouds in a mix-and-match manner tell me an example so let's just say that Amazon doesn't want to play ball with you guys or Azure and they kind of get let me stay tuned on that one by the way I know that so Pat Pat's answer was we just you know sling api's around we'll do it that way so you could have a lightweight in to interface with API like get that so if they kind of don't play ball if they do hope you sneering that they might that's going to be important to have that use my view is the cloud is a new hardware we will make our software available on as many clouds as we make possible and where we don't our valuable move beyond compute to add value in the air security management right governance visibility we don't need them to open up the api's you already have api's that's the design center we need to add value on top VMware always has been a management company a delivery company for optimizing workloads the new hardware is a cloud vm will continue i'd value on top so aj one of the concerns i'd heard from the really the vmware partners on vCloud air was how do they differentiate how do they make money so did tell us with vCloud air network and cloud foundation you know what is the answer so what we're doing is we're leveling the playing field of VMware IP that we had in vCloud air and our on prem and making available to everyone every partner differentiates itself in a different way so when i go to a soft layer they're differentiating on their bare metal service their compliance their GTS service when you go to OVH they're providing a soft service developer cloud as well as they were to go after the mid-market very cost-effectively when you go to a skyworks they're doing on security and compliance every one of them has their unique IP and their managed services there is no one-size-fits-all they are differentiating and they're all growing all growing north of thirty percent which is a great you know the market is really evolving and people are finding that niche as they go after this business what I love about vmworld this year is the competitive strategy 3d chess game going on with the VMware exec it is plus the clarity absolutely other the back to the roots back to the roots of the roots on software back to the data center and looking at that future but in the cloud I think you got some time my opinion you have time to catch up to what how that hardware game plays out as you say but the question on the software you mentioned your job is to is to do software right the role of the developers will be the canary in the coal mine yes how do you guys look at the developer community because if they all flock dude as Pat calls amazon the developer cloud right how are you guys going to engage the developer community has that fit of your plans oh uh Greg I just got my IBM friend sent me their forest a report for IBM was rated as the number one developer car for enterprise here's an example of bluemix cognitive services all being pulled in running on a vmware cloud our strength is they're taking the best of breed ecosystem making sure that the workload then lands on a vmware cloud I don't think what a developer company amex Oracle I know what it takes to build a java community and we're not going to get there on our own and working with Cabernet DS for the container imposter manager that's the strategy we support those working with Cloud Foundry I'm the treasurer of our foundry it's about enabling the ecosystem we hide Dirk as an open source leader it's about embracing the open source community bringing the communities to VMware was just trying to create our own so that's hardcore for you the national strategy absolutely the case of central of our strategy we've been Switzerland we won the game we continue wanted to be Switzerland and attract the marketplace that's awesome and one final question your big takeaway as you leave vm world this year all the conversations you talk to customers here's a very customer centric very impressed with the customers doing a lot of talking here and seeing like people going to relieve they can see the clarity and the strategy and kind of how the products are fitting together and certainly the integration I was very strong this year what's your takeaway for for you to go back to the ranch and talk to your your team and your colleagues I think the excitement is really the customer momentum we have the number of conversations were having with customers their plans to start adopting it I had an IBM rep called me and saying who's the VMware rep I can call because all the stuff i saw i want to bring vmware into my accounts so a channel is pulling for us yeah we're in a great position I'm really excited for the name it brings back to either VMware that was that independent absolutely no software work with everyone the hardware vendors brought us even in the weekend were optimizing their the infrastructure we believe the similarly the service providers the system integrators they need an a VMware landing pad and when Herod had a great line on the cube yesterday when I asked you know what is take on vmware is and we were riffing he was thinking out loud and he said something pretty profound he said vmware is always in their DNA has always been to solve complex problems make them simplify and create an abstraction layer this audience of this cloud networks interesting you're creating a cloud abstraction layer in the power of numbers I love numbers and that is a competitive move against the the Amazon Web Services and Azure tell me 119 countries who has data centers there I do all right without a single penny out of my pocket okay cloud is the new hardware according to AJ AJ thank you for spending time wrapping up vmworld for us this year thank you thanks for being here again and we'll talk more about cloud foundry as we'd love cloud foundry so that's the cube I'm John Force too many men wrapping up vmworld day three thanks for watching all the videos are up on youtube.com slash SiliconANGLE of course code SiliconANGLE com so going on TV and Wikibon calm for all the best research thanks for watching our coverage of vmworld 2016