live from the mandalay bay convention center in las vegas it's the cues covering vmworld 2016 rock you buy vmware and its ecosystem sponsors and welcome back here on the cube to continue our coverage to vmworld from mandalay bay along with peter burrows i'm john woloson it's a pleasure to welcome two fellows are know all about being on the cube one of them very recently Kim Barth is back with a CEO and co-founder of catalyzing software came good to see you oh it's great to see you and Eric Herzog I mean the Hawaiian shirt we know is is your signature moment it was finally a vice president probably marketing and management at IBM but you're an original cubist you said that I think the first year that the cube happened I was on with Dave eons ago must have been either 2010 or 2011 the first cube ever we got to make you like an emeritus member of the Alumni Association something and let it be careful when we say say cubist let's be very clear about it right now I've got to mix words here yeah kubera all right so if you would let's take a look at talk about your relationship Kenta logic at IBM I know you have a long-standing partnership you might call that that's evolving and getting a little bit stronger and Ken if you would maybe paint that picture a little bit oh look I mean these guys are just fantastic to work with we've been working with IBM for a couple of years now we're excited because we're going to continue to move the relationship forward and we've got some exciting new announcements about supporting even more of their storage coming out later this year what we're really excited about is the way that they've jumped in and they have a complete line of flash products and as you know from our conversation the other day flash is just taking the market absolutely by storm particular around the primary applications so what we've done at IBM is dramatic extend our portfolio this year we've been a market leader for years in all flash and we see flashes ubiquity cross all primary data sets so whether that be the high-performance databases VMware environments are virtualized environments cloud configurations big data linux doesn't matter what the workload is and we have all sorts of price points all sorted from performance yo flash does have different performance characteristics depending on how you configure it now you use it substantially now of course any flash configuration abstention faster than a traditional storage array or any hybrid array 10x to as much as a hundred x in real-world application spaces so we've expanded it down from our high end into very cost effective energy products as low as nineteen thousand dollars street price not lit not right there at the point of attack end-user raid five configuration for nineteen thousand we have big data analytics all flash configurations we have mainframe in the upper end of the Linux community of what's left of the UNIX world that's still out there that few Solaris and AIX business we have a lot of products of that space again all going flash and it doesn't matter what the workload is virtualized workloads database workloads virtual server workloads virtual desktop workloads cloud workloads new world databases Splunk spark Bongo Hadoop Cassandra all of those types of workloads now can be all flash and we have the right workloads with the right solution at the rice price point and you pick the right price point right solution you need for the right workload an application and when it seems to me that you talk about performance obviously key factor their speed you know off the charts but cost is the one that once that's been solved as you said is that the big nighter is that's what's going to like the what you're seeing is flash is essentially at the same price as disk was so there's a number of storage efficiency technologies on the primary side which is a we do cattle onic edges efficiency technologies on the copy side because so much copies of data are made not only for disaster protection but for test and dev snapshotting that's n used for backup so they track all that to get efficiency on the secondary side of the equation we do things like real time compression you block level d do we have all kinds of technologies dying to cut the cost of flash and so when you factor that in flash is way less expensive actually then disc and when you look at how it impacts your data center so for example if you were running certain workloads we have a real world public reference to run their work blood which is database work look took 80 servers because the storage was so slow so you over provision your servers because of what's called storage latency that customer just swapped out the storage for flash and went from 80 physical servers to 10 to the exact same workload so the impact of flash is not just performance oriented it's actually very cost oriented not just what does it cost per gigabyte for the storage but if you can take out 70 servers you just cut not only the capex on his server farm right all the operational expenditures around it and then what cat logic does people make copies of the primary data sets and they make everything efficient on the copy cider if you will the secondary side of storage and so they complement each other what we do on primary what they do on secondary so let's talk about that a little bit so if you think about it there no productivity is a function of the amount of work that you can do divided by the amount of cost or resources consumed to form that word so flash has significant benefits as you just said that cause side but when we start talking about a lot more copies that can be made available to developers or decision-makers in a lot of different forms now we're accelerating the speed by which that digital assets get created and we're improving productivity not just through efficiency and the cost but accelerating the value that I t's able to deliver through the business that's exactly right you're hitting the nail on the head because as Eric over here said it saves capex and opex with just slash but if you had a copy data management product particularly one like ours that has it's really a combination a copy data management we have a workflow engine and we have full access to rest api's that the customer can begin to tailor it to their environment and solve a lot of pain points like around test dev database copies snap copies things like that you know they did some studies IDC actually did some studies earlier this year we're at any given time a customer would have 50 copies of different data floating around the neighborhood 50 snaps and the reason this is a complex issue is because you have many different storage types taking many different stamps you have applications snaps and so if you think about it this all starts by organizing the snaps putting them in a searchable database if you will then offering a workflow engine where you can automate the process even make it self service right and at the end of the day what can happen is they can move delete so they really kind of you have control over your environment but what they can do is they can begin to really save huge money so with flash you're going to have good kept at x + op X but if you put our ECX product in which is what a lot of our customers call copy data management on steroids you can see geometric savings of that op X and capex but you're also accelerate development time absolutely official with all about efficiencies you all those things are absolutely improved absolutely right and then if you start having like we have arrested a series of rest api's you can begin to really tailor it to that customers environment so if you're doing again I go back to the test dev example and test dev we can tie that directly into things like puppets chef bluemix right these are all development tools that make it totally efficient for the software developer right that's just one use case will we go ahead no so Eric as I new introduces more of these products arguments in the storage business for a long time forever yeah ain't that about me and respects IBM created the whole concept of storage administration whatever was 30 years ago now but as IBM does this is storage increasingly being elevated as customers see their data volumes going up and the need to track where this data is who's using it the number of copies in place how is that impacting the way IBM thinks about the concept of an overall system well we look at it from the application space it's all about the applications workloads and use cases and customers want to optimize the business value of that data so as it's growing exponentially you'd be able to access that data quickly and most importantly it needs to be always there so everyone talks about speech BCC speed for flash it's not just about speed of flash your Flash ray needs to be reliable available and serviceable just like our driver ray had to be and so you're looking at different characteristics and performance different characteristics and price different characteristics in the rats capability the reliability available in serviceability and you tie that to what you need for your workloads we've had the highest in oracle database in a company let's say that company is all oracle so you need something like our flash systems a 9000 or flash system 900 but if you've got the oracle database that tracks their asset management which would mean things like chairs tables and whiteboards that's not high performance that could go on our store wise 50 30 f which is way more cost effective and it's incredibly fast compared to our driver e but not as fast as our flash systems so it's very important a that you have the performance but be if you don't have the reliability doesn't matter how fast you are if the thing fails then your cloud goes down your virtual environment goes down your VMware doesn't work you can't access that Oracle or there sa p or that Hadoop and so it's really about how to optimize those workloads those applications and those use cases and storage is the rock-solid foundation underneath that allows you to do that absolutely and when you're going into world that's all about cloud which means real-time access and self service and the self-service suspect by the way it means that you don't always have a store gentlemen accessing it so if the thing fails and the guy's a VMware admin or a developer in Oracle or in any other environment he doesn't know what to do so you can't have the storage fee land in cognitive workloads and big data analytics workloads where you're running petabytes and petabytes and petabytes of information as fast as you possibly can you're trying to make business decisions or rail times you need the speed so what if it's super fast and then it fails so to put it on a black trading you know database for black trading for example or some of financial applications if it's really fast and then it fails that didn't help it hurts you so it's all about how to manage those workloads applications use cases natural for performance which everyone knows flash is but all that reliability available in the serviceability and then they manage a cat logic on the back side all the copies that people create which is it which is critical to make sure that those get managed appropriately and you don't have you really need 50 copies but you don't want 150 it is completely and efficient on the storage side and then developer doesn't know what to use so you just made it worse for yourself so you just introduce raise an interesting point related to data governance so I know that obviously cata logic has some ideas about how data governance is likely evolved partly in response to the need to manage multiple San apples understand where they are talk to us a little bit about how data governance which is fundamentally about how a business brings policy roles responsibilities to assets as data becomes more of an asset house governance changing oh I think governance is huge because dated you know data is exploding and particularly you start moving you have numbers of copies like Eric was saying how do you track that how do you know where it is how do you you know if you're in a compliance based business you could be in a lot of trouble so you've got to make sure you can audit and know where it goes and again one of the ways to do that is to keep it under control and not have so many copies floating around in his example you might make 10 to 15 copies of that database why do that if you only need one right that's one of our big advantages that we have versus some of our competitors we do what's called in place copy data management which means we we simply leverage Eric's great storage out there so a lot of our competitors will actually put a copy of that they'll make a copy on Eric storage move it to their storage and then you've kind of exacerbated the problem a little bit right what's like hoarding right exactly right but I and I mean kind of the Peters pointing some what you're saying is is that because we can we do right and so we make all these copies and it's exactly not need you know fifth down but but because I can and it's cheaper and storage is going down like cleaning out that closet we all have that closet at the house that we just keep putting stuff in and one of these days we think we're going to clean it out and the thing just grows and grows and they have to buy another house to get another closet so again how does this all this curb that behavior and that allow me to monitor through some governance policy when somebody is going over the line and we bring it back of the line and and we get a little more regular restrictive act again because of our workflow engine that we have in the product you can set thresholds you can automate the process so is example when a you know when a DBA or somebody gets a copy of the database you can put a time limit on when it's going to wipe it out they're going to stay in sync across the board so again you're not replicating this thing time and time again they're getting timely data when they need it and then it can automatically be removed but if I mean time one of the biggest problems within an IT organization is making available making data available to the disparate groups that need it solutely administrative costs of I need data well we'll get around to giving you that second to sorry in September right being able to do this much faster and utilize flaps technologies to facilitate that process has an impact on cost has an impact on the benefits which increases productivity has an impact of governance but also is an impact on the healthy friendly relations between IT and the business yes well what's happening is you're undergoing a revolution in the data center cloud obviously it's started with virtualization now it's extending to the cloud now you have a line of business that's more involved in IT than it's ever been before so the last thing you want is to worry about your storage or you just want it to be the foundation okay I'm from Silicon Valley we have earthquakes buildings really fall down on earthquakes if they have a bad foundation if you have a rock-solid foundation your cloud your cognitive your database workloads will always be fine you want to make sure that as you're doing that you're doing a cost effectively so both high performance that you need but high performance has a whole bunch of different price points at high performance because the entire world's got high performance other thing from an IT perspective and a business on a perspective flash storage is actually the evolution the revolutions the rest of the data center right I'm old enough where when I took my first computer class of University of California not a punch card then it all went tape anyone's seen a 1985 Schwarzenegger spy movie it's all tape then you see a 1995 Schwarzenegger spy movie and it's all hard drive arrays now it's all flash arrays so it's just an evolution from a storage perspective and it coincides with a revolution in the data center of cloud cognitive big data analytics real-time evaluation of data sets and so flash is coming at the fur and perfect time as you have this revolutionary confluence in the data center in the cloud and the web application workload yusuke space the fact that flash is only at evolution is actually great because you don't have to worry about it it's just an evolution of storage and allows you to take advantage of the revolution in your gayness enter your application or workload space that's the way the flash brings is is it's not a revolution it helps the revolution it does because as Eric was saying it you want to modernize your data center is what you're out to do and if you splash is a good step towards that and then if you had a copy data management tool like our product ECX on top of it it gives you the flexibility to move to the cloud move move it move data up to the cloud and back right it allows you to start offering self-service to your people so it doesn't take you know weeks or days to get that copy of the data they can start doing it themselves so it's a step in the right direction as he said from an evolution to the revolution of the data center yeah I'll bet out there somewhere right now there are a couple Millennials watching say did you already said about punch cards what a punch good oh no that's all it's all about date at the right place at the right time for the right people and you guys are a great example of getting that job done and thanks for being with us and sharing your story and we wish you continued success that's right I'd like to say one thing with you it is finished real quick if anybody out there has SVC or if they have in the flash from IBM please come see us we've got a great product that will greatly increase the capex it's cattle ajik software or can bart thank you gentlemen for being with us here on the cube we continue our coverage from vmworld after this thank you