live from Seattle Washington it's the cube covering dr. Kahn 2060 brought to you by dr. now you're your host John furrier and Brian Grace Lee okay welcome back and we are here live in Seattle Washington for Doc archon 2016 this is SiliconANGLE media is the cubes our flagship program and go out to the events and extract the signal from noise I'm John fourth by coach Brian Grace Lee our next guests Emil khandekar was the CEO of nuage networks part of Nokia welcome to the cube thank you to see you right so my doctor madness is really exploding in the developer community certainly galvanizing the digital transformation at the end of the day we always say in the cube the network's a bottleneck you got it and it's really about what's under the hood we just had talked to head biggest startup about storage you see a lot of disruption certainly and how infrastructures being technology being developed and make it more programmable yeah where is the story with the network where's that fit in what's the updates there because this is the day that's a critical piece of the pie indeed absolutely for ultimately for apps to be deployed on the network on any infrastructure as you said network has to get out of the way to create that developer efficiency to allow for applications to be deployed very quickly and how do you make that happen because containers are really being talked about we are the conference 4,000 plus people fantastic however CIOs know that they have not only the container technology to deal with but they have virtual eyes were closed and have had those words will eyes were closed for a long time they have bare metal servers that are supporting applications that probably will never move for a while so you have these very changing very dynamic environment and you have to understand how the networking can tie those things together seamlessly that's where we come in as much networks because your networks is essentially Sdn venture of Nokia and what we have at large networks what we've done is it's a modern Network policy based automation platform that allows for any workload whether it's a virtualized workload weather is a container workload whether it's a bare-metal server all to come together and be stitched automatically to allow for that application to be deployed quickly how is that different from other Sdn cloud architectures right you guys are doing within Nokia right so first and foremost what we have is it's a platform that we've built it's a virtualized services automation platform it's not a point solution for only the data center assets to be automated or only the SD when as it's called branch to be automated what it is it's is declarative policy-based automation platform that allows for which is open by the way completely open incorporates open source technologies and allows for all types of workloads if it's in and across data centers so virtualized workloads bare-metal workloads existing were closed as well as incorporates different hypervisor and cloud management system technologies and allows for connection to the branch and to the white area so you're saying it was built for cloud in mind is that what it was very much built for cloud enablement in mind making sure that we didn't forget on the way the existing environment and what you're seeing in the difference really between us and other platforms that are out there is essentially some of the SDN platforms are mono if you will and very narrow sliver they're based only for the data center and work on it on only on a mono hypervisor technology or some platforms are only looking at the SD van branch platform then were meant is such that you want and the cios want automation platform that is consistent across private on-prem as well as public resources and works across multiple hypervisor technologies and the big deal there is because you say point technologies but that that's code word for the older older approaches which was you know back in the mini-computer land days internet internet working you stand up some networks have policies and certainly policy based in a packet management and that was it that's right and you manage it within the data center that's right and that was adequate at that time so a vertically integrated stack in that simplified environment was adequate now now have such a variety of use cases you have got to deal with the cloud native applications you go to deal with the older applications but you need a consistent platform because ultimately you're looking to align ID to business needs and how do you align idea to business needs you do that by getting the networking out of the way and creating automation but again delivering operational simplification getting network out of the way I love that I you know a lot of CIOs are CEOs are seeing startups get into their industry you know if you're in pure and automobiles there's people that are trying to disrupt you you're in hotels everybody knows about those would what what is that you know they go great i can go hire some application developers i want to go faster yeah somebody says gilts get the network out of the way who are who are you selling to them what who is that person that says that sounds great but i still got to figure out routing and i got to figure out security i got to make it highly available who's the decision-maker in your world these days great great question Brian so a couple of points one these days any large enterprise that is looking to IT to create differentiation for their core business and if that means almost every large enterprises rely on IT heavily for their requirements as well as to create a differentiation for their own for product whatever it might be but they saw tomato its farmers pharmaceutical its retail those are indeed the customer that we are talking to because what they have is their environment has shifted as John said earlier it's not very simply a simple environment the environment will become complicated and to do that the networking requirements have become a very sophisticated as in you need application isolation you need multi-tenancy you need the ability to deploy policy very very quickly you need effortless governance of your security policies and compliance you need to be able to stitch all these were close together and also have a strategy for private and public cloud what that means is you need the technologies that were available to the top of the if you will only tier one service providers and bring that to the enterprise's and that's what we have done what use can you what use cases specifically around containers and policy do you see out there okay you specific yeah absolutely so I'll give you an example of a customer that was in OpenStack betfair is online betting and we have my cubes yeah that's right you had richard i say i believe and and what they have is they have 100 million plus transactions in a day on their infrastructure dare use cases continuous integration anything that did that scale at that scale and and so they're using the wash to basically create that automation for all their workloads that's one use case the other use cases we have a very large fortune five company that is looking to use the watch for automation of their virtualized machines so they have a cloud stack and they have kvm based hypervisor with virtual as virtual machines and they're using containers with measles and watch is the only platform that's allowing them to stitch these environments together seamlessly apply the same policy and same so you guys are a platform for a cloud native like environment with existing infrastructure you bring those together we bring that together in a highly automated way and then we allow for security very important security as in we prevent you know spread of mile there we die very quickly being able to enforce the policies we provide multi-tenancy doctors a huge security nightmare because just as much the benefits can interoperate with I mean the applications can be put in containers so good viruses exactly a naked scale and that's what our job is to make sure that how do you do it it doesn't do that because by able to very quickly enforce policies and Quarantine the workload so upon detection of malware our system gets a notification based on that notification we are able to because we have full view of all the workloads whether they are in private data center of public data center or in the branch we can very quickly then quickly effectively and surgically quarantine that workload because we know exactly where that workload is and we know exactly the policy to enforce this also helps by the way this system also helps by you know you get a security threat alert today it's it's a brute-force approach you go down and shut down a segment now with this policy based automation you go to the policy and you say I want only this application to not be allowed to do use this protocol and instantly that policy is deployed yeah I'm sort of picking up on two things you talk about sort of end and the platform for everywhere a lot of that's because we don't have boundaries anymore you know mobile phone changes a boundary that its executive office people are moving around so you need to be you need to have that sort of end end visibility you don't have segmentation like you used to and you talk about policy you know I need to be able as a developer to go network team I need you to sort of give me a service and then I just want to call it I don't want to have to call you I might be working at two at night we might have to change something on the fly like that's why the policy piece is so important is that right you are absolutely correct Brian and that is so critical because ultimately what ID is struggling with is how do they enforce the governance the security governance when application needs to be deployed I teak generally gets in the way not because they want to because they want to enforce certain security certain compliance policies and until now it has always been that manual process now with the security policy based infrastructure what they are able to do is they are able to put the policy once and they're insured that that policy is deployed seamlessly across all their workloads and so they have to audit the policy once and it's guaranteed provisioning which is error-free provisioning so it's huge in terms of the ability for enterprises to react to problems but also any changes the agility this brings the system brings to the table because ultimately you know without the network there is really no cloud and this is why we're hearing people talk about sec ops and sec DevOps and really security integrated without automation consistently automatable same thing every single time absolutely we have a one customer which is again a very large financial base in New York and their issue was exactly that in terms of being able to when I'm talking their CSO and the chief security officer the biggest thing that they took away from our policy based automation was not only the ability to able to stitch all these environments together seamlessly but being able to provide compliance being able to provide the automated policy infrastructure for all their birth was being able to really provide that application isolation those are big deals yeah very big deals for the CX those and csos Sonia we gotta wrap but I want to get your final thoughts on nuage and Nokia like you spend a minute talk about the distinction between the branding of the sea of nuage honestly the name is different I'll see Nokia is big you guys are part of that yes I explain to the people watching what you guys are about size scope the kind of engagement revenue or and how that compares and contrasts to nokia which we're part of but integers so we had a wholly-owned SD inventor of nokia and what we are focusing on is this policy based automation network automation for the data centers wide area and the branches nokia provides us tremendous sponsorship they are very much behind cash is and they recognize the value in our ability to serve the largest of the largest enterprise customers but also because of nokia we are able to address and are involved in very large service Reuters of projects so that's what helps us be involved they have huge scale so the way we work is we focus on over RND the innovation we bring to the table the community that we serve but nokia provides us and the reach yeah reporting the resources but you're wholly-owned meaning you run and run independently if you will we are yes but we are fully owned by nokia we just operate and focus on this it allows us to number customers can you share some data yeah and if we completed two years in the market and in two years we have over 60 plus customers we have over 200 deployments that we have completed pilot trials and deployments but we have 60 Plus very large service droid our customers cloud service providers for huge integrations and also the very big very big enterprise customers i named a couple of Fortune five companies but we are in retail we are in high tech we are in health care the new fabric your new fabric in these big high scale infrastructures that have diverse needs and diverse workloads there and have the need to stitch all that together in a cohesive fashion to build that automated fabric for a poseable almost right composable yeah to ultimately bring agility and align ID to the business I love the word composable infrastructure it really treats the infrastructure is programmable which is the nirvana make it an invisible make it get out of the way get out of the way but yet make it effortless I leave highly performing too so indeed heuer high-performance invisible that's right that's infrastructure as code and Neil thanks for sharing your insight here and the cube really appreciate nuage networks the CEO here on the cube live at da Kirk on I'm John Foley Brian Grace Lee we write back you're watching the cube

hello my name is Brian Grace Lee analysts with wiki Bond and on today's wiki bond whiteboards we're gonna begin to understand container architectures containers are really the big technology talked about these days especially for infrastructure teams there's a component of it that's both application and infrastructure but in this whiteboard we're really going to understand the basics of how it applies to the infrastructure and we're going to try and put it in the context of things that most infrastructure teams understand today which is virtualization so let's go ahead and begin what we've done and again this is for context we've tried to take a standard environment that people are used to seeing for virtualization and in this case we're going to use VMware as the example because obviously broadest market share and a lot of people understand what they do so let's talk about the basics of what happens here people understand what happens at the host level I've got servers within each server I've got a hypervisor so in VMware's case ESX or ESXi within that hypervisor I'm going to go ahead and create virtual machines so every single virtual machine has a copy of the full operating system and then within that virtual machine I've got a an operating an application itself for multiple applications so everybody understands that pretty well now how I manage those hype with those hypervisors and virtual machines is through a centralized control plane and that's called V Center and V Center may be a single instance it may be a clustered instance but think of it as the thing that's going to manage the scheduling of the resources and the management of those resources and it's really only focused on virtual machines okay now above that we're going to have if we're deploying applications I can either deploy them by hand or I may begin to deploy them through application templates so I may deploy the same type of application over and over again a web server a sequel database something else do that consistently I'm going to use some sort of typically a templating function and a lot of that can come in the management flame framework from something like V realize VMware via realized and then on top of that I'm going to have my applications whatever those might be sequel databases s AP Oracle Microsoft applications whatever those things might be so the key things I want you to understand is at the host level its hypervisor virtual machine full operating system and application and at the control plane it's this sort of structured format of V Center cluster V Center is going to make sure that virtual machines get deployed on to those hosts and it's going to keep track of where they are and make sure that they stay alive using things like VMware H a VM or V motion and VMware fault tolerance okay so now that we have that basic context in place let's take a look at how the container ecosystem is beginning to evolve and in this example we're gonna use docker because similar to VMware right now docker is the most frequently used container technology there are other ones in the marketplace but we're going to use docker just as an example the rest of what we talked about will be applicable whether it's docker core OS rocket or a number of the other container technologies that are out there so let's begin down at the host level just like we did over here in the simplest form I'm gonna have a host I'm gonna have a server we're not going to have a hypervisor we're just going to have the operating system today in most container environments that operating system is going to be Linux now there's a lot going on in the marketplace where this will eventually be Linux and Windows Microsoft is is working quite a bit on this but for right now let's just say that operating system is Linux ok I'm going to have my container runtime which in this case is his docker and you can think about that as sort of being like a hypervisor but it's almost a lightweight hypervisor and then that container runtime is going to create my containers themselves and each one of those containers now what's unique about this that's different from this environment is each one of those containers only uses they all share the same operating system so again all of your containers within a single host have to run the same operating system either all Linux or eventually would be all Windows they're going to use the bits that they need from that operating system so the net-net of it is it's a lighter-weight footprint I should be able to boot them quicker and the reason people get very very fixated on I can boot a container fast is because in this container environment the types of applications that I'm building tend to be more what they call ephemeral pieces of them are going to go away they're going to come back I'm gonna want to spin them up quickly if I have a scalable application spin them up or spin them down and so what you're looking for is a operating environment that will come up very very quickly so just to put that in context to spin up a virtual machine it may take three four minutes because of the operating system coming up to spin up a container usually is on the order of a second or a couple of seconds so big you know order of difference between there now the second piece that's really important and this is where a lot of people kind of get confused about what's going on in the container ecosystem is what happens at that control plane and the first thing to understand is when we talked about you know virtualized applications we tend to talk about very stateful sometimes they're called platform two sometimes they're called legacy applications but they're more or less stateful so the expectation is once you deploy them other than maybe Vee motioning them around for availability you're not scaling them up and down you don't expect them to fail frequently and so the scalability needed at the control plane is fairly well-defined maybe it's a thousand hosts or 10,000 hosts when we start dealing with containers the types of applications we deploy tend to be more what they call 12 factor applications sometimes you hear them call modular applications cloud native applications the idea being they're much more modular they tend to be more state less so the idea of maintaining state tends to get pushed somewhere else but they're designed for scale they're designed for mobile applications for real-time data applications and so the control plane unlike here which tends to be somewhat stateful and more confined in terms of scale has to be designed to be a distributed control plane it has to be designed to scale much much larger and so as part of that what we see is we're seeing technologies come out that sort of break up the things that were functions inside of a vCenter control plane into sort of distinct technologies that number one tend to scale more because they're written in distributed manner and number two they've got a certain amount of sort of mix-and-match that you can have with them depending on what your applications gonna do so let's talk through the basic things that are in here the first layer that you'll often hear about is clustering how do I cluster together sets of container hosts an example of this is docker swarm technology another example of this is something like Etsy D from core OS it's a technology to sort of figure out where my clusters of hosts are going to be the next layer is what's called service discovery if I'm deploying hundreds and hundreds or thousands of devices I want to you know containers I want to be able to figure out what services are available queuing services database services you know notification services the things that are out there I need to do that dynamically and automatically the next piece is going to be scheduling those containers just like vCenter is going to put it on the right host to make sure that it's load balanced properly there's a scheduling function to make sure that containers get deployed to the right container and then the next piece is what they call application scheduling so in these environments I don't tend to schedule my applications in these environments they could be a mix of batch applications Hadoop applications long running applications short running applications I need a more advanced intelligent scheduler to make sure that I'm getting the containers and the applications deployed on the right place and as efficient as possible and then on top of that I have my actual applications so the takeaway from this is at the host level some difference between how heavy a virtualized environment is going to be versus a container environment and that you want that to match how your application requirements are and if the control plane a more structured model for doing the functions that you need to manage the environment in a container model a more distributed model so with that I'm gonna go ahead and wrap that up we're going to get into some more depth in other videos we hope you enjoy these once again this has been a wiki bound whiteboard video you can find more information about all of our research and all the information about these technologies at wiki bond com and again if you want to follow me again my name is brian grace lee i'm at be grace lee on twitter or you can follow at wiki bon on twitter as well thank you and have a great day

San Francisco extracting the signal from the noise it's the cube covering vmworld 2015 brought to you by VM world and its ecosystem sponsors now your host Stu miniman and Brian Grace Lee welcome back this is the cube SiliconANGLE TVs live production of vmworld 2015 here in moscone north san francisco happy to have back on this segment we're actually gonna dig into some of the networking pieces Brian Grace Lee and myself here hosting it Sean Walsh repeat cube guest you know in a new role though so Sean welcome back here now the general manager of the ethernet business at qlogic thanks for joining us thank you thanks for having me alright so I mean Sean you know we're joking before we start here I mean you and I go back about 15 years I do you know those that know the adapter business I mean you know Jay and I've LJ core business on you've worked for qlogic before you did a stint in ml accent and you're now back to qlogic so why don't we start off with that you know what brought you back to qlogic what do you see is the opportunity there sure um I'll tell you more than anything else what brought me back was this 25 gig transition it's very rare and I call it the Holy trifecta of opportunity so you've got a market transition you actually have a chip ready for the market at the right time and the number one incumbent which is Intel doesn't have a product I mean not that they're late they just don't have a product and that's the type of stuff that great companies are built out of are those unique opportunities in the market and you know more than anything else that's when brought me back to qlogic alright so before we dig into some of the ethernet and hyperscale piece you know what what's the state of fibre channel Sean you know what we said is in those fiber channel the walking dead is it a cash cow that you know qlogic be a bit of milk and brocade and the others in the fibre channel business for a number years you know what's your real impression of fibre channel did that yeah so you know look fibre channel is mature there's no question about it is that the walking dead no not by any stretch and if it is the walking dead man it produces a lot of cash so I'll take that any day of the year right The Walking Dead's a real popular show so fibre channel you know it's still it's still gonna be used in a lot of environments but you know jokingly the way that I describe it to people is I look at fibre channel now is the Swiss bank of networks so a lot of web giant's by our fiber channel cards and people will look at me and go why do they do that because for all the hype of open compute and all the hype of the front end processors and all the things that are happening when you click on something where there's money involved that's on back end Oracle stuff and it's recorded on fibre channel and if there's money involved it's on fibre and as long as there's money in the enterprise or in the cloud I'm reasonably certain fibre channel will be around yeah it's a funny story I remember two years ago I think we were at Amazon's reinvent show and Andy Jesse's on stage and somebody asked you know well how much of Amazon is running amazoncom is running on AWS and its most of it and we all joke that somewhere in the back corner running the financials is you know a storage area network with the traditional array you know probably atandt touched by fibre channel absolutely i mean we just did a roll out with one of the web giants and there were six different locations each of the each of the pods for the service for about 5,000 servers and you know as you would expect about 3,000 on the front access servers there's about 500 for pop cash that was about 15 maybe twelve thirteen hundred for the for the big data and content distribution and all those other things the last 500 servers look just like the enterprise dual 10 gigs dual fibre channel cards and you know I don't see that changing anytime soon all right so let's talk a bit a little bit 25 gig Ethernet had an interview yesterday with mellanox actually who you know have some strong claims about their market leadership in the you know greater than 10 gig space so where are we with kind of the standards the adoption in queue logical position and 25 gig Ethernet sure so you know obviously like everyone in this business we all know each other yeah and when you look at the post 10 gig market okay 40 gigs been the dominant technology and I will tip my hat to mellanox they've done well in that space now we're both at the same spot so we have exactly the same opportunity in front of us we're early to market on the 25 we have race to get there and what we're seeing is the 10 gig market is going to 25 pretty straightforward because I like the single cable plant versus the quad cable plant the people that are at 40 aren't going to 50 they're going to transition straight to 100 we're seeing 50 more as a blade architecture midplane sort of solution and that's where at right now and I can tell you that we have multiple design win opportunities that we're in the midst of and we are slugging it out with these guys everything and it will be an absolute knife fight between us and mellanox to see who comes out number one in this market obviously we both think we're going to win but at the end of the day I've placed my bet and I expect to win all right so Sean can you lay out for us you know where are those battles so traditionally the network adapter it was an OEM type solution right I got it into the traditional server guys yeah and then it was getting the brand recognition for the enterprise customers and pushing that through how much is that traditional kind of OEM is it changing what's having service providers and those hyperscale web giants yes so there's there's three fundamental things when you look at 25 gig you gotta deal with so first off the enterprise is going to be much later because they need the I Triple E version that has backwards auto-negotiation so you know that's definitely a 17 18 pearly transition type thing the play right now is in the cloud and the service provider market where they're rolling out specific services and they're not as concerned about the backwards compatibility so that's where we're seeing the strength of this so they're all the names that you would expect and I have to say one of the interesting things about working with these guys is there n das or even nastier than our Liam India is they do not want you talking about them but it is very much that market where it's a non traditional enterprise type of solution for the next 12-18 months and then as we roll into that next gen around the pearly architecture where we all have full auto-negotiation that's where you're going to see the enterprise start to kick in yeah what what what are the types of applications that are driving this this next bump in speed what is it is it video is it sort of east and west types of application traffic is a big data what's what's driving this next bump so a couple of things you would expect which would be the you know certainly hadoop mapreduce you know those sorts of things are going there the beginning of migration to spark where they're doing real-time analytics versus post or processing batch type stuff so there they really care about it and this is where our DMA is also becoming very very popular in it the next area that most people probably don't think of is the telco in a vspace is the volume as these guys are doing their double move and there going from a TCA type platforms running mostly one in ten they're going to leave right to 25 and for them the big thing is the ability to partition the network and do that virtualization and be able to run deep edk in one set of partitions standard storage another set of partitions in classic IP on the third among the among the few folks that you know you would expect in that are the big content distribution guys so one of the companies that I can mention is Netflix so they've already been out at their at 40 right now and you know they're not waiting for 50 they're going to make another leap that goes forward and they've been pretty public about those types of statements if you look at some of the things that they talked about at NDF or IDF and they're wanting to have nvme and direct gas connection over i serve that's driving 100 gig stuff we did a demo at a flash memory summit with Samsung where we had a little over 3 million I ops coming off of it and again it's not the wrong number that matters but it's that ability to scale and deal with that many concurrent sessions that are driving it so those are the early applications and I don't think the applications will be a surprise because they're all the ones that have moved to 40 you know the 10 wasn't enough 40 might be too much they're going to 25 and for a lot of the others and its really the pop cash side that's driving the hunter gig stuff because you know when that Super Bowl ad goes you got to be able to take all that bandwidth it once yeah so Sean you brought up nvme maybe can you discuss a little bit you know what are the you know nvm me and some of these next-generation architectures and what's the importance to the user sure so nvme is basically a connection capability that used to run for hard drives then as intel moved into SSDs they added this so you had very very high performance low latency pci express like performance what a number of us in this business are starting to do is then say hey look instead of using SAS which is kind of running out of gas at 12 gig let's move to nvme and make it a fabric and encapsulate it so there's three dynamics that help that one is the advent of 25 50 100 the second is the use of RDMA to get the latency that you want and then the third is encapsulation I sir or the ice cozy with RDMA together and it's sort of that trifecta of things that are giving very very high performance scale out on the back end and again this is for the absolute fastest applications where they want the lowest latency there was an interesting survey that was done by a university of arizona on latency and it said that if two people are talking and if you pause for more than a quarter of a second that's when people change their body language they lean forward they tilt their head they do whatever and that's kind of the tolerance factor for latency on these things and again one of the one of the statements that that Facebook made publicly at their recent forum was that they will spend a hundred million dollars to save a millisecond because that's the type of investment that drives their revenue screen the faster they get clicks the faster they generate revenue so when you think of high frequency trading when you think of all those things that are time-sensitive the human factor and that are going to drive this all right so storage the interaction with networking is you know critically important especially to show like this at vmworld I mean John you and I talked for years is it wasn't necessarily you know fibre channel versus the ethernet now it's changing operational models if I go use Salesforce I don't think about my network anymore I felt sort of happen to used Ethernet it's I don't really care um hyper convergence um when somebody buys hyper convergence you know they just kind of the network comes with it when I buy a lot of these solutions my networking decision is made for me and I haven't thought about it so you know what's that trend that you're seeing so the for us the biggest trend is that it's a shifting customer base so people like new tonics and these guys are becoming the drivers of what we do and the OEMs are becoming much more distribution vehicles for these sorts of things than they are the creators of this content so when we look at how we write and how we build these things there's far more multi-threading in terms of them there's far more partitions in terms of the environment because we never know when we get plugged into it what that is going to be so incorporating our l2 and our RDMA into one set of engine so that you always have that hyper for it's on tap on demand and you know without getting down into the minutia of the implementation it is a fundamental shift in how we look at our driver architectures you know looking at arm based solutions and micro servers versus just x86 as you roll the film forward and it also means that as we look at our architectures they have to become much smaller and much lighter so some of the things that we traditionally would have done in an offload environment we may do more in firmware on the side and I think the other big trend that is going to drive that is this move towards FPGAs and some of the other things that are out there essentially acting as coprocessors from you you mentioned earlier Open Compute open compute platform those those foundations and what's going on what is what what's really going on there i think a lot of us see the headlines sometimes you think about it you go okay this is an opportunity for lots of engineering to contribute to things but what's the reality that you're dealing with the web scale folks sure if they seem like the first immediate types of companies that would buy into this or use it what's the reality of what's going on with that space well obviously inside the the i will say the web scale cloud giant space you know i think right now if you look at it you've got sort of the big 10 baidu Tencent obama at amazon web as your microsoft being those guys and then you know they are definitely building and designing their own stuff there's another tier below that where you have the ebays the Twitter's the the other sorts of folks that are in there and you know they're just now starting that migration if you look at the enterprise not a big surprise the financial guys are leading this we've seen public statements from JPM and other folks that have been at these events so you know I view it very much like the blade server migration I think it's going to be twenty twenty-five percent of the overall market whether we whether people like to admit it or not good old rack and stack is going to be around for a very long time and you know they're there are applications where it makes a lot of sense when you're deploying prop private cloud in the managed service provider market we're starting to see a move into that but you know if you say you know what's the ten year life cycle of an architect sure i would say that in the cloud were probably four or five years into it and the enterprise were maybe one or two years into it all right so what about the whole sdn discussion Sean you know how much does qlogic play into that what are you seeing in general and you know we're at vmworld so what about nsx you know is that part of the conversation and what do you hear in the marketplace today yeah it really is part of the conversation and the interesting part is that I think sdn is getting a lot of play because of the capabilities that people want and again you know when you look at the managed service providers wanting to have large scale lower costs that's going to definitely drive it but much like OpenStack and Linux and some of these other things it's not going to be you know the guys going to go download it off the web and put it in production at AT&T you know it's going to be a prepackaged solution it's going to be embedded as part of it if you look at what Red Hat is doing with their OpenStack release we look what mirantis is doing with their OpenStack release again from an enterprise perspective and from a production in the MSP and second tier cloud that's what you're going to see more of so for us Sdn is critical because it allows us to then start to do things that we want to do for high-performance storage it allows us to change the value proposition in terms of if you look at Hadoop one of these we want to be able to do is take the storage engine module and run that on our card with our embedded V switch and our next gen ship so that we can do zero stack copies between nodes to improve latency so it's not just having RDMA is having a smart stack that goes with it and having the SDN capability to go out tell the controller pay no attention this little traffic that's going on over here you know these are not the droids you're looking for and then everything goes along pretty well so it's it's very fundamental and strategic but it's it's a game it's a market in which we're going to participate but it's not one we're going to try and write or do a distribution for okay any other VMware related activities q logics doing announcements this week that you want to share this week I would have to say no you know I think the one other thing that we're strategically working on them on with that you would expect is RDMA capabilities across vMotion visa and those sorts of things we've been one of the leaders in terms of doing genevieve which is the follow-on to VX land for hybrid cloud and that sort of thing and we see that as a key fundamental partnership technology with VMware going forward all right so let's turn back to qlogic for a second so the CEO recently left he DNA that there's a search going on so give us the company update if you will well actually there isn't a search so Jean who is gonna is going to run the ship forward as CEO we've brought in chris king who was on our board as executive chair in person chris has a lot of experience in the chip market and she understands that intimate tie that we have to that intel tick-tock model and really how you run an efficient ship driven organization you know whether we play in the systems in between level you know we're not quite the system but we're not quite the chip and understanding that market is part of what she does and the board has given us the green light to continue to go forward develop what we need to do in terms of the other pieces jean has a strong financial background she was acting CEO for a year between HK and simon aires me after Simon left so she's got the depth she knows the business and for us you know you know it's kind of a non op where everything else is continuing on as you would expect yeah okay last question I have for you Sean I mean the dynamics change for years you know what there was kind of the duopoly Xin the market I mean it was in tellin broadcom oh yeah on the ethernet side it was Emulex and amp qlogic it's a different conversation today I mean you mentioned Intel we talked about mellanox don't you logic you know your old friend I don't lie back on a vago bought broadcom and now they're called broadcom I think so yeah so you know layout for us you know kind of you know where you see that the horses on the track and you know what excites you yeah so again you know if you look at the the 10 gig side of the business clearly intel has the leadership position now we're number two in the market if you look at the shared data that's come out you know the the the Emulex part of a vago has been struggling in losing chair then we have this 25 gig transition that came in the market and that was driven by broadcom and you know for those of us who have followed this business they I think everyone can appreciate the irony of avago of avago buying Emulex and then for all the years we tried to keep him separate bringing them back together was but we-we've chuckled over a few beers on that one but then you've got this 25 gig transition and you know the other thing is that if you look at so let me step back and say the other thing on the 10 gig market is was a very very clear dividing line the enterprise was owned by the broadcom / qlogic emulex side the cloud the channel the the the appliance business was owned by Intel mellanox okay now as we go into this next generation you've got us mellanox and the the original broadcom team coming in with 25 game we've all done something that gets us through this consortium approach we're all going to have a night Ripley approach from there and Intel isn't there you know we haven't seen any announcements or anything specific from Emulex that they've said publicly in that space so right now we kind of view it as a two-horse race we think from a software perspective that our friends at at broadcom com whatever we want to call them or bravado I think is how r CT / first tool that I don't think they have a software depth to run this playbook right now and then we have to do is take our enterprise strength and move those things like load balancing and failover and the SDN tools and end par and all the virtualization capabilities we have we got to move those rapidly into the into the cloud space and go after it for us it means we have to be more open source driven than we have been in the past it means that we have a different street fight for every one of these it represents a change in some of the sales model and how we go to market so you know not to say that we're you know we we've got all of everything wrapped up and perfect in this market but again right time right place and this will be the transition for another you know we think three to five years and there's there's still a lot of interesting things that are happening ironically one of the most interesting things I think it's got to happen in 25 is this use of the of the new little profile connectors I think that will do more to help the adoption of 25 gig in Hunter gig where you can use the RCX or r XC connector there's our cxr see I forgot the acronym but it kind of looks like the firewire HDMI connectors that you have on your laptop's now and now imagine that you can have a car that has that connector in a form factor that's you know maybe a half inch square and now you've got incredible port density and you can dynamically change between 25 50 and 100 on the fly well let Sean Sean you know we've always talked there's a lot of complexity that goes in under the covers and it's the interest who's got a good job of making that simple and consumable right and help tried those new textures go forward all right Sean thank you so much for joining us we'll be right back with lots more coverage including some more networking in-depth conversation thank you for watching thanks for having me

from the noise it's the cube covering vmworld 2015 brought to you by VM world and its ecosystem sponsors now your host Stu minimun and Brian Grace Lee Patrick Shanna's on for a member of the technical staff for dr. Patrick saw you at the end of our spring tour and now you're here at the you know picking up the fall tour so thank you for joining us again hey thanks for having me alright so I mean last year you know containers with VMware I mean was a big discussion we kind of all had that you've got some background with Microsoft right and VMware yeah and VMware so you know there was kind of a joke of you know oh the old Microsoft you know extend embrace and we'll see how we go from there but you know it's been a year later so can you give us a little bit of the update of kind of you know how docker in VMware how do you guys see each other I could evm where is a great partner you so the announcement this morning VMware embrace containers so I'm super excited to be here some of the announcements that were made this morning is now this year is a control plane for containers there's this notion of native containers in this year one of the things that excites me the most is their project bonville that they talked about this morning it's actually been made by one of my friends on the ex-colleagues banchory and what they're doing in there that they are implemented the back end for the darker engine in terms of these fear primitives so when you're creating images it creates a set of vmdk layers and when you're creating when you want to create a container the isolation primitives are the ones of VMS as opposed to linux containers all right so that's a very good way of running container yes sir patrick last time we're in the cube you did a great job of helping us you know kind of walk the stack I don't know if you saw we actually did a research piece kind of layering the whole stack so here the announcement you mentioned this morning is the vSphere integrated containers and they've got photon and they've got Bonneville on and let me ask you am I looking at this right that we're VMware I mean VMware very much down at the infrastructure level yeah so when they build that photon layer you know whether they call it just enough virtualization as Kate kolbert said this morning when I heard him speak um but dr. sits on top of that am I getting that right yeah it's exactly right and actually one of my reasons for joining VMware I think four years ago was for them to go up stack and at that time it was with cloud foundry and I would argue that maybe with cloud foundry we were a little bit too much up stack compared to my vm worries at the bottom when I present the whole stack usually I talk about like the new hardware the new hardware today is your cloud provider it's a Amazon Microsoft Google and then the virtualization with VMware so that's the new hardware and that's where vmware is very strong so they manage networking storage and compute on top of that you have the OS layer and what really got me interested into moving to darker is that the whole landscape just changed when containers appear two years ago and the whole industry is reorganizing around that so what happened at the OS layer that all the OS providers starting with chorus initially who studied that friend started doing minimal release of their OS that are just designed to run containers so coral I started that trend but then very quickly read had followed with project atomic and then we went to with winter core the most interesting to me is Ranchero s where they run docker for everything so they have two darker system darker and userland occur and then VMware came out with photon I think twas last June or something like that and today I think they have a preview to of that coming out on top of that you have ducker so the rocker engine running and on top of the darker engine you have orchestration platforms and these are the ones that are replacing what used to be past platform as a service and when I was at Google I was doing google appengine at vmware i was doing cloud foundry now you see cloud foundry reinventing itself as a control plane for containers and so one of the announcement that excited me most in the keynote this morning is that now Cloud Foundry is running with photon they have an integrated distribution so finally vmware is going up stack with its own stack like vSphere at the bottom then on top of that you have photon and then on top of that you have cloud foundry yeah so really exciting times yeah I think for me one of the things that I always hear that feels like it's confusing or off the markets a lot of people want to kind of get into this containers replaces VMs or VMs versus container debate and as if they're both sort of infrastructure layer which if you think about them is something that holds that I could see you make the mistake but but Dockers is something that developers love they love to package their applications they love this idea of right on my laptop push it somewhere do you find that confusion a lot in the marketplace I mean oh yeah I find that a lot and I think it's tied to the rise of DevOps it really in the past five years the this new movement called DevOps like really took off and DevOps is a lot about people and processes a little bit about products as well and I think when docker appeared it was the right level of abstraction for DevOps to happen like the right packaging construct where developers can put all their dependencies in a container and then ups have all the right knobs to tweak for putting that in production but it's the same thing that you put in production that you have on your developer machine so to me a lot of the confusion assoc d2 docker is tied to that because it's a technology that you use both by developers and by ops I think vmware is doing a really good job of giving up so kind of control they need to put darker in production yeah so we're here at vmworld a lot of talk about vmware in containers you guys doing a ton of stuff with Microsoft like yeah talk a little bit about because you know for a long time people like to say what containers have been along for on for a long time Linux containers and but but windows and microsoft adopting this like what's going on there yeah so the partnership with Microsoft is super exciting so after a VMware I actually moved to Microsoft and at Microsoft my role was to help all the darker partners to get onto Azure and since I join I've seen all the work that happened with microsoft recently we've done tons of stuff we end many many different integration points to me the most important one is finally we have native windows containers that shipped with a Windows Server tv3 like literally I think two weeks ago so that's something that was pre announced that dark on and my croissan'wich came onstage with the ducati sure to do a demo now you can run it on Azure yourself what's exciting there is that the concepts that are at the heart of docker are based on using c groups and name spaces which are linux kernel features for isolation of your workloads the thing is these isolation primitive similar ones existed in windows server and especially the version of Windows Server that was running within Microsoft data center for to power Bing and things like that to have denser workloads in the data center where the Microsoft team has done is that they re implemented the darker back end in terms of windows containers primitives and so now you can create Windows net application running on windows server in windows native containers the beauty of it if you're a developer especially an enterprise developer in the enterprise basically you have half and half Java and.net very often like developers go from one to the other or they are developers who do Java others doing dotnet they have completely different tool chains now with darker they have a single tool chain that they can use to build a multi container application that use different technologies behind the scene so finally developers can use the best tools for the father father job yep so pattern one of the things we look at every year here at vmworld is how are we doing it kind of fixing the things that broke when virtualization went into both storage and networking yeah and it was big discussion point at dr. Khan this year you put up a beta of docker networking yep storage I'd say is even a little bit you know further behind there so you know what's the latest on how you guys think of that you know where are we along that maturity curve of you know storage and networking for for containers so I'm really glad you asked that because when i joined occur in march that was my first project to kick-start a project to do darker extensibility and the two extension points that we created based on ecosystem and customer demands were about storage and networking and so I'd acha kaun in June we announced to extension points for dr. a plug-in system one for networking and one for volumes and what I really love about what happened at vmworld today this morning in the keynote is that VMware implemented a networking plug-in based on NSX as well as a volume plug inning in collaboration with a cluster HQ who had built flutter and help us create that extension point four volumes so finally one of the big issues with containers is that when you were deploying it in a multi host set up especially with swarm and compose when you're stunning to the orchestration before June there was no way to to move one container when state full container with data to another machine with a volume plug-in now you can do that and with the networking aspect now you can refer to containers by instead of like doing links and there were some complicated ways to do that now you can use either the native networking driver that comes with ducker but as usual we use the philosophy of batteries included but replaceable and so you can plug networking plug-in coming from nsx if you're using this fear under the hood yeah so still we're we're going to be doing a panel tomorrow on on containers one of the things I want to dig into we're gonna have intel on the show and tells doing some neat things where they're they're calling it clear containers but in essence it's it's kind of the equivalent for the vm we're proud of you know VT technology right hardware isolation of processes talk about just what's the potential of that for containers ability to better leverage hardware to make containers a it's faster and yeah so that aspect of internal research is super exciting and it corroborates some of the things i see happening in the marketplace right now especially on the research side where you have both like Linux containers became super successful in the past two years now that we're going in production there will be lots of different type of isolation technologies applied to containers and so one of the first one I heard about West project banville where it's implemented in terms of this year primitives another one is the clear container by Intel another one that I heard about that that came through the oci project that will talk about that new standard that we announced a cocoon is called is called things of run V and it's based on the hyper SH container technology based on virtualization so I see more and more people using virtualization as an implementation for isolation in containers yeah talk about what's going on with run see so you know six months ago it was we had this you know are we gonna have diverging container standards you guys stood up with core OS and 20 other companies and said we're no we're going to have one standard what's going on with with oci and run c and that thing that's been super exciting so that was my second project that docker we announced it at Daka Connie you that we had a 20 of the biggest companies in the industry joining to create a standard container especially core OS joining as well as Google and Amazon and everybody and what blew my mind is that we're what were free month later less than three months later the team right now is preparing a first draft of the spec for September they've been working actively all throughout the summer we put out we started working on the spec just after dark on we had the darker contributor summit and the the working group for OC I was the largest we had like 15 people from different companies starting to iterate on the spec they continued throughout the summer and now we have something that's close to a first draft of the spec with a reference implementation that's runs in one of the most interesting development that happens there and that really speaks to the power of open source and open stone is is that once the specs started to mature we started to have already a second reference a second implementation of the spec that's called rungy that's been built by the hyper SH project based on virtualization and then why way contributed a test suite for compliance of the of the spec so that spec is advancing really fast yeah so I was having a conversation with Jim's emmalin who runs the Linux Foundation II week or so ago at linux con and we asked him we said you know it's hard because you love them all like your kids do you have a favorite project he said yeah no question oci is my favorite project right now just because of the promise of portability the sort of write once run anywhere so you're working on it it's an important product the Linux domain is really looking at you guys to make this work and and drive that portability yeah and the Linux Foundation has done a really great job at coordinating the work of all the maintainer Xin there it's really a neutral ground where we can advance so that all of us can innovate on top of it now a lot of the competition is happening at the upper layer of the stack like oci I think we all agree on the semantics of what a container runtime should be now at the higher level there are lots of discussions about how the orchestration should be done and there you have 15 different projects you have swarmed from darker this mess those this coup banaras which is very opinionated and one of the other development this summer is that Google and many others including us dr. with part of that announced an another foundation called the CNC F the cloud native computing foundation where the goal there is to create reference tax for orchestration that can interoperate together pretty much along the same line of the work that darker did with a mesosphere for having a swarm plugin for mezclas so Patrick boy there's been so much movement in this space we talked multiple foundations a lot going on one of the things we came out of dr. Khan that we were just I guess a little concerned about is how many people actually run an import and we know you know I mean live through the the VMware lived through the Linux you know adoption phases so is it fair to kind of gauge that piece of it you know what do you see when you know you're talking to the practitioners and the you pick users out there as to you know how should we be measuring you know that's a naturally occurring production yeah so I would say it's maturing a lot we see more and more users putting darker in production there are lots of holes still in the offering that needs to be filled and that's why I'm pretty excited to see VMware stepping in and saying hey for production use we have a lot of technology that you can use to put that in production some of the things that we've seen is a like networking and volumes so that was really needed now that there are lots of plugins I hope that people will have an easier time putting that into production the agreement on what orchestration should be so people are still asking a lot of question about which orchestrator should i use for my containers in production and so I've seen so people using measures others using coronary some are trying swarm there's still lots of questions out there about what the right stack should look like and I would say as usual in software project it kind of depends on what you're running well the one thing that concerns me and it's always there's so many good things going on around docker I've been doing some research over the last couple of months looking at all the different platforms so everything from you know dr. native to what hoshi corp is doing to what openshift is doing and we were we talkin to Adrian Cockroft he said you know dockers reached sort of plaid in terms of speed it moves so fast you guys are releasing some every two months how do you deal with that because you deal with the ecosystem how do they deal with the fact that you're now part of their core platform but you're releasing new stuff every two months I mean are we going to get into something where it's like well it's it's one dot six and two dot one and how do you deal with that yeah so ducker itself as a company is maturing addict Akane you one of the big things that we announced is a darker trusted registry and aqus yes so we have a version of docker that is supported where we're going to do backwards a porting of patches so for people who really want to run it in production we have an offering that supported for them so that they are not obliged to run on the tape every time some of the startups that I've seen out there like large startups with a more in the consumer space who have larger data center and a pretty mature ops team they some of them are running on tip or on the latest version of darker but in the enterprise you can assume that like the adoption of new versions will be slower and so we have that like support offering for for all the versions of darker now the darker open source project is continuing to fire I like to create lots of things and there are lots of poor request the project is more successful than ever I think in the last like recently the most prolific contributor was Microsoft in the project there are lots of torrid has a huge contributor that Google as well is sending lots of pull requests so there are not lots of new features coming with each new release but at the same time we're really working on a platform that everybody is going to use and that needs to mature that's why you have that really fast pace of innovation in that space yeah so I mean Patrick here you're you're in the weeds of some of this so the other one that comes up quite a bit of courses security so even just this last week there's a big back and forth on Twitter and a couple of blog posts talking about it you know what what your thought is to how how we should talk about kind of the maturity and where we're going with the container security discussion yeah so as you guess container security is one of our big focus abductor because that's one of the things that people are expecting from a platform especially to run in production my colleague yoga Monica did lots of blog posts recently about how to improve your security in production security is not only a factor of the software itself but on the all the processes that you put in place around it and basically around darker you have to put in place with some kind of processes you have for operating systems like getting the latest release of the official images I don't know if you saw that there's been a blog post like talking where they looked randomly at all the images in docker hub and evaluating them for security issues one of the things that they didn't look at is that the latest releases of operating systems that we have in there in blocker images are just tracking the upstream releases and people who have sound security practices internally I'll just pulling these latest releases all right last question I have for you Patrick it's it easy for people to come I come in here and be like oh well you know biggest threat to vmware is is docker what what I love talking to you is you know this is a real small community I over the last year a lot of former VMware people now working over a doctor and not that they're unhappy with VMware and you know Microsoft is is in the mix you know so I mean this whole community is pulling together and doing a lot of work a lot of contribution you know what do you see out there from the technology community to help mature this whole space yeah I'd say both VMware and Microsoft at the operating system an infrastructure level as well as Google at the orchestration layer VMware a red hat at the operating system layer like everybody is trying to make darker a sound platform to run in production so what I see in all corners is just darker getting solidified and getting part of most people's production infrastructure with all these efforts on the security and stability and processes as well as the development processes there are lots of innovation in the terms of CI CD integration with darker no no she saw the work that cloudbees has been doing for integrating jenkins with darker so doctor is both the platform for apps and for devs and in that in that qualification that the ecosystem is very broad both on the dev tools side as well as on the ops and platform side all right well Patrick unfortunately at a time is always great chatting with you thank you so much for joining us we'll be back with lots more coverage here from being real 2015 and thank you for watching you inseam six months you

from Seattle Washington extracting the signal from the noise it's the cube on the ground at OpenStack days Seattle 2015 now here's your host John furrier hello and welcome to Seattle this is a special Q presentation cube on the ground OTG we call it on the ground we go out to the event and talk to all the thought leader I'm John far with the QNX arendelle with SolidFire also the famous cloudcast podcast great to see you again I know good to see John cloudcast is a hot podcast all the thought leaders are listening customers are listening guys are really the signal out there on cloud and also SolidFire growing yes all flash storage you gotta kick in some but they're always keeping tabs on you guys new approach the cloud what's going on with cloud give us the update of OpenStack what's the bottom line I mean is it failing is it winning is it growing is it stalled what do we expect to see ya know so it's at an interesting point because it absolutely is growing but it still has some operational challenges that's the number one thing we're seeing right now is actually just talking to some folks in the hall of common theme is you're still trying to figure how to upgrade it easily still figuring how to operate it easily right and the gentleman from canonical made that made the the reference you know ketchup right everyone has the in green stuff in your kitchen but no one makes their ketchup right and I thought that was fantastic because it's you know everyone's kind of looking for that easy button and it's starting to show up you know you've got you the blue box folks you've got the platform nine folks you've got some interesting startups actually coming into the OpenStack space which shows us there is some definitely some innovation and some new things going on but it's because of the challenges we faced until now the question is the ketchup good I mean is that last ingredient going to make it so that it's not too watery I mean is Cooper Nettie's is containers so truly is it good ketchup and yeah what's the next was the key ingredient well yeah and that's that's a fantastic point because we are at this inflection point where OpenStack was a necessary next that without a doubt we had to get that first step into cloud native applications had to do it but where we're going with Mesa sand cabrion at ease with mesa con going on down the street is that the true next evolution is it like the OpenStack Murano project where you're kind of getting containers built into OpenStack we'll have to wait and see because that anytime you talk to burn a DS anytime you talk Mesa that's is so cutting edge so at this point I'm still Silicon Valley home so OpenStack obviously meme of a sec being dead is kind of falls we saw some things happen last year so it opens dec sv some people aren't going to be there this year that were there last year yes either went out of business or executives have left but yet a lot of dynamics going on palma risks is stepping down as CEO of cloud pivotal cloud foundry cleans 100 million dollars in revenue leather to see those books but but the question now see amazon is doing their thing and but it's really a dynamic market right now so so it's there yes the question is who's doing what in revenue what's the numbers is it all professional surgery and cloud found your hundred million that's a huge number i just is that all professional services do they actually selling product yeah and that's a fantastic moment because the m the cloud cast we saw this consolidation coming for a long time we really started covering OpenStack about four years ago and we were just waiting for at some point you know when we first started there was 15 plus startups in the OpenStack space and there just wasn't enough customers there there wasn't enough revenue there and you just saw this natural consolidation come to a head last year and yeah some are no longer here a lot of them were sucked up into the various vendors and what you're seeing now is especially at the OpenStack summits and like these events here you have a much more mature ecosystem it's almost like the new legacy of you know all of these vendors are there they're all mature they're trying to play in this space they're trying to make money off of it and time will tell and then it's an evolution anybody brought to point you right over the easy button what is that easy button now is it just deployment in a box is it like just give me prefabricated OpenStack is it tooling is it management we're hearing a lot of different things yeah and I think time will tell but I do think the preference we're seeing in our customers is definitely moving towards that easy button as a service if you will of some of those companies where the operations have open stack because it hasn't gotten easier at the same level of the adoption people are looking to what is that next step if the operations were to get easier i don't think we'd see that market be as popular as it is right now is it is the market still in early adopter that's the thing that's on my mind has it crossed over yet I think it has I think we're at least in OpenStack context where we're beyond early adopter phase there is a lot of folks out there using it but what's interesting is is to kind of go back around to the previous question a little bit the district's taken off like I think they probably should have most of the large customers I've seen are still roll your own and it is still that staff of Engineers really keeping up and running and again because the what was the value-added the distributions we're starting to see the Red Hat distribution get a you know to that point where we're getting good adoption of that we're seeing the marantis one with all the fuel work they're doing we're getting good adoption with that so the question on adoption is it's either not Oh people aren't aware of it or the product sucks so is it mix of both is it awareness issue or is it a product issue oh that's a great question i think it's a it's a question of differentiation I don't know that it's differentiated enough at this point in time it's it's you know if you go build your own versus you farm it out if you will completely big differences right but it's almost like shades who could be fear yeah it could be a third dimension you could absolutely be fear well that's the thing you've been the issue solution of operators we hear a lot of an operator so the question is if I'm an engineering team I might want to have my tire kickers go through the motions and that's not necessary approval con so that's just core competency building so that fear could be an issue of cork opera so maybe they're aware of it maybe the products decent maybe it's just that their team's not core enough to do that yeah when it comes to the folks in house um yeah again going back to the easy button what we really need in the opposite community is that POC in a box and that's probably there today don't get me wrong but but everyone sees that POC in a box but then they're afraid of does that mean can I scale it out to 100 nodes a thousand nodes and will it be as easy and it's almost gotten a reputation now of know and and so how do we get it to grow to 100 notes thousand nodes whatever you want and do the business value out of I don't need a big staff of people and how do I get you know the underlying infrastructure to be simpler at the end of the day a little cloud cast we got going on here I mean I think in my opinion my opinion I think it's just a matter of the customers having the ability to execute and have the total cost of ownership equation nailed I think there's still this gray area of there's no straight and narrow on on the execution what's my cost i'm gonna be locked into that vendor what's going to be the lock-in oh my god yeah the shark fin the iceberg whatever metaphor you want to use yes no is that reading is their visibility on the ownership side because downstream what's the impact well it what's interesting there too is the biggest thing I'm seeing is for again from an operation standpoint how do we make this as simple as possible because what happens is you have this weird convoluted thing if you have the whole legacy apps versus cloud native apps and you take that put it aside for a second rank if we take that and put it aside well what what do they really want doesn't matter what kind of app it is well the developers want API driven infrastructure you can call it cloud but the end of the day it's it's an infrastructure that's driven by api's and then as simple as possible you know being able to really guarantee the uptime guarantee the performance and that's where OpenStack at times it gets a bad rap I don't and I'm not even necessarily agreeing with that might not even be worthy of a bad rap in that agreed absolutely because there are known customers out there that are doing it and doing it very well but again is how do you get beyond that room well Stu miniman I'm Wikibon and Brian Grace Lee and now Wikibon and and I Robin conversation about this and I think Dave vellante even chimed in and we were debating was up across the board different opinions yes what the hell is cloud native app mean you know is it is amazonas cloudy of course they're cloud Facebook a cloud native app okay but what does that mean for enterprises that mean that the app was built for just API so to me it just doesn't seen it's been a lot of there's not a lot of cloud native apps out there right now or are now what is a cloud yeah and and it's a fantastic question and my opinion have always been you know there's there was this kind of trend in the industry how do I take these legacy apps and make them cloud native well the simple answer is you don't the way I look at it is it's really more of like a star of the old build the new mentality you you want to maintain those legacy systems but the same time as those kind of age off the books if you will you're going to have to build a new infrastructure so if you're going to build new infrastructure you might as well build it the new way but that has to happen over time that is not something that happens you know most businesses out there today they don't do technology for the sake of technology there has to be a business reason and a business driver if that legacy app is still out there making them money they're going to keep using I not untrue to your point it's you cloud native is the future the soil asked of you know yeah yield some fruit on that tree if you will so that's going to take some time exactly so so you know I very much see this as a longer tail that most people would like without a doubt it is just a matter of how are we going to get their long-term and yeah there's lots of terminology and the cloud native and what does that mean big picture and architectural II that's all solved it's getting the businesses to rewrite the apps and really give them Aaron we're in Seattle right now on the ground so quickly describe to the folks out there what's the vibe here what's it like a Seattle it's been it is so it's been interesting I've been in here since tuesday now and i've done lenox con cloudstack day OpenStack day and mesa con all in the in three days now so it's what did you learn yeah it's been a world in 30-second I know yeah so it the biggest thing is there is still a lot of confusion in yes people are starting to get legacy versus cloud native but when it comes to which technologies do i use why would i use them what are the actual business drivers to actually go adopt some of these new technologies massive amounts of confusion around that and that's probably the biggest reason for you know trying to get knowledge out in the industry without a doubt okay we are OTG on the ground this is the cube in Seattle I'm John for thanks for watching and all the coverage here at OpenStack innovation day thanks for watching