San Francisco extracting the signal from the noise it's the cube covering vmworld 2015 brought to you by VM world and its ecosystem sponsors now your host Stu miniman and Brian Grace Lee welcome back this is the cube SiliconANGLE TVs live production of vmworld 2015 here in moscone north san francisco happy to have back on this segment we're actually gonna dig into some of the networking pieces Brian Grace Lee and myself here hosting it Sean Walsh repeat cube guest you know in a new role though so Sean welcome back here now the general manager of the ethernet business at qlogic thanks for joining us thank you thanks for having me alright so I mean Sean you know we're joking before we start here I mean you and I go back about 15 years I do you know those that know the adapter business I mean you know Jay and I've LJ core business on you've worked for qlogic before you did a stint in ml accent and you're now back to qlogic so why don't we start off with that you know what brought you back to qlogic what do you see is the opportunity there sure um I'll tell you more than anything else what brought me back was this 25 gig transition it's very rare and I call it the Holy trifecta of opportunity so you've got a market transition you actually have a chip ready for the market at the right time and the number one incumbent which is Intel doesn't have a product I mean not that they're late they just don't have a product and that's the type of stuff that great companies are built out of are those unique opportunities in the market and you know more than anything else that's when brought me back to qlogic alright so before we dig into some of the ethernet and hyperscale piece you know what what's the state of fibre channel Sean you know what we said is in those fiber channel the walking dead is it a cash cow that you know qlogic be a bit of milk and brocade and the others in the fibre channel business for a number years you know what's your real impression of fibre channel did that yeah so you know look fibre channel is mature there's no question about it is that the walking dead no not by any stretch and if it is the walking dead man it produces a lot of cash so I'll take that any day of the year right The Walking Dead's a real popular show so fibre channel you know it's still it's still gonna be used in a lot of environments but you know jokingly the way that I describe it to people is I look at fibre channel now is the Swiss bank of networks so a lot of web giant's by our fiber channel cards and people will look at me and go why do they do that because for all the hype of open compute and all the hype of the front end processors and all the things that are happening when you click on something where there's money involved that's on back end Oracle stuff and it's recorded on fibre channel and if there's money involved it's on fibre and as long as there's money in the enterprise or in the cloud I'm reasonably certain fibre channel will be around yeah it's a funny story I remember two years ago I think we were at Amazon's reinvent show and Andy Jesse's on stage and somebody asked you know well how much of Amazon is running amazoncom is running on AWS and its most of it and we all joke that somewhere in the back corner running the financials is you know a storage area network with the traditional array you know probably atandt touched by fibre channel absolutely i mean we just did a roll out with one of the web giants and there were six different locations each of the each of the pods for the service for about 5,000 servers and you know as you would expect about 3,000 on the front access servers there's about 500 for pop cash that was about 15 maybe twelve thirteen hundred for the for the big data and content distribution and all those other things the last 500 servers look just like the enterprise dual 10 gigs dual fibre channel cards and you know I don't see that changing anytime soon all right so let's talk a bit a little bit 25 gig Ethernet had an interview yesterday with mellanox actually who you know have some strong claims about their market leadership in the you know greater than 10 gig space so where are we with kind of the standards the adoption in queue logical position and 25 gig Ethernet sure so you know obviously like everyone in this business we all know each other yeah and when you look at the post 10 gig market okay 40 gigs been the dominant technology and I will tip my hat to mellanox they've done well in that space now we're both at the same spot so we have exactly the same opportunity in front of us we're early to market on the 25 we have race to get there and what we're seeing is the 10 gig market is going to 25 pretty straightforward because I like the single cable plant versus the quad cable plant the people that are at 40 aren't going to 50 they're going to transition straight to 100 we're seeing 50 more as a blade architecture midplane sort of solution and that's where at right now and I can tell you that we have multiple design win opportunities that we're in the midst of and we are slugging it out with these guys everything and it will be an absolute knife fight between us and mellanox to see who comes out number one in this market obviously we both think we're going to win but at the end of the day I've placed my bet and I expect to win all right so Sean can you lay out for us you know where are those battles so traditionally the network adapter it was an OEM type solution right I got it into the traditional server guys yeah and then it was getting the brand recognition for the enterprise customers and pushing that through how much is that traditional kind of OEM is it changing what's having service providers and those hyperscale web giants yes so there's there's three fundamental things when you look at 25 gig you gotta deal with so first off the enterprise is going to be much later because they need the I Triple E version that has backwards auto-negotiation so you know that's definitely a 17 18 pearly transition type thing the play right now is in the cloud and the service provider market where they're rolling out specific services and they're not as concerned about the backwards compatibility so that's where we're seeing the strength of this so they're all the names that you would expect and I have to say one of the interesting things about working with these guys is there n das or even nastier than our Liam India is they do not want you talking about them but it is very much that market where it's a non traditional enterprise type of solution for the next 12-18 months and then as we roll into that next gen around the pearly architecture where we all have full auto-negotiation that's where you're going to see the enterprise start to kick in yeah what what what are the types of applications that are driving this this next bump in speed what is it is it video is it sort of east and west types of application traffic is a big data what's what's driving this next bump so a couple of things you would expect which would be the you know certainly hadoop mapreduce you know those sorts of things are going there the beginning of migration to spark where they're doing real-time analytics versus post or processing batch type stuff so there they really care about it and this is where our DMA is also becoming very very popular in it the next area that most people probably don't think of is the telco in a vspace is the volume as these guys are doing their double move and there going from a TCA type platforms running mostly one in ten they're going to leave right to 25 and for them the big thing is the ability to partition the network and do that virtualization and be able to run deep edk in one set of partitions standard storage another set of partitions in classic IP on the third among the among the few folks that you know you would expect in that are the big content distribution guys so one of the companies that I can mention is Netflix so they've already been out at their at 40 right now and you know they're not waiting for 50 they're going to make another leap that goes forward and they've been pretty public about those types of statements if you look at some of the things that they talked about at NDF or IDF and they're wanting to have nvme and direct gas connection over i serve that's driving 100 gig stuff we did a demo at a flash memory summit with Samsung where we had a little over 3 million I ops coming off of it and again it's not the wrong number that matters but it's that ability to scale and deal with that many concurrent sessions that are driving it so those are the early applications and I don't think the applications will be a surprise because they're all the ones that have moved to 40 you know the 10 wasn't enough 40 might be too much they're going to 25 and for a lot of the others and its really the pop cash side that's driving the hunter gig stuff because you know when that Super Bowl ad goes you got to be able to take all that bandwidth it once yeah so Sean you brought up nvme maybe can you discuss a little bit you know what are the you know nvm me and some of these next-generation architectures and what's the importance to the user sure so nvme is basically a connection capability that used to run for hard drives then as intel moved into SSDs they added this so you had very very high performance low latency pci express like performance what a number of us in this business are starting to do is then say hey look instead of using SAS which is kind of running out of gas at 12 gig let's move to nvme and make it a fabric and encapsulate it so there's three dynamics that help that one is the advent of 25 50 100 the second is the use of RDMA to get the latency that you want and then the third is encapsulation I sir or the ice cozy with RDMA together and it's sort of that trifecta of things that are giving very very high performance scale out on the back end and again this is for the absolute fastest applications where they want the lowest latency there was an interesting survey that was done by a university of arizona on latency and it said that if two people are talking and if you pause for more than a quarter of a second that's when people change their body language they lean forward they tilt their head they do whatever and that's kind of the tolerance factor for latency on these things and again one of the one of the statements that that Facebook made publicly at their recent forum was that they will spend a hundred million dollars to save a millisecond because that's the type of investment that drives their revenue screen the faster they get clicks the faster they generate revenue so when you think of high frequency trading when you think of all those things that are time-sensitive the human factor and that are going to drive this all right so storage the interaction with networking is you know critically important especially to show like this at vmworld I mean John you and I talked for years is it wasn't necessarily you know fibre channel versus the ethernet now it's changing operational models if I go use Salesforce I don't think about my network anymore I felt sort of happen to used Ethernet it's I don't really care um hyper convergence um when somebody buys hyper convergence you know they just kind of the network comes with it when I buy a lot of these solutions my networking decision is made for me and I haven't thought about it so you know what's that trend that you're seeing so the for us the biggest trend is that it's a shifting customer base so people like new tonics and these guys are becoming the drivers of what we do and the OEMs are becoming much more distribution vehicles for these sorts of things than they are the creators of this content so when we look at how we write and how we build these things there's far more multi-threading in terms of them there's far more partitions in terms of the environment because we never know when we get plugged into it what that is going to be so incorporating our l2 and our RDMA into one set of engine so that you always have that hyper for it's on tap on demand and you know without getting down into the minutia of the implementation it is a fundamental shift in how we look at our driver architectures you know looking at arm based solutions and micro servers versus just x86 as you roll the film forward and it also means that as we look at our architectures they have to become much smaller and much lighter so some of the things that we traditionally would have done in an offload environment we may do more in firmware on the side and I think the other big trend that is going to drive that is this move towards FPGAs and some of the other things that are out there essentially acting as coprocessors from you you mentioned earlier Open Compute open compute platform those those foundations and what's going on what is what what's really going on there i think a lot of us see the headlines sometimes you think about it you go okay this is an opportunity for lots of engineering to contribute to things but what's the reality that you're dealing with the web scale folks sure if they seem like the first immediate types of companies that would buy into this or use it what's the reality of what's going on with that space well obviously inside the the i will say the web scale cloud giant space you know i think right now if you look at it you've got sort of the big 10 baidu Tencent obama at amazon web as your microsoft being those guys and then you know they are definitely building and designing their own stuff there's another tier below that where you have the ebays the Twitter's the the other sorts of folks that are in there and you know they're just now starting that migration if you look at the enterprise not a big surprise the financial guys are leading this we've seen public statements from JPM and other folks that have been at these events so you know I view it very much like the blade server migration I think it's going to be twenty twenty-five percent of the overall market whether we whether people like to admit it or not good old rack and stack is going to be around for a very long time and you know they're there are applications where it makes a lot of sense when you're deploying prop private cloud in the managed service provider market we're starting to see a move into that but you know if you say you know what's the ten year life cycle of an architect sure i would say that in the cloud were probably four or five years into it and the enterprise were maybe one or two years into it all right so what about the whole sdn discussion Sean you know how much does qlogic play into that what are you seeing in general and you know we're at vmworld so what about nsx you know is that part of the conversation and what do you hear in the marketplace today yeah it really is part of the conversation and the interesting part is that I think sdn is getting a lot of play because of the capabilities that people want and again you know when you look at the managed service providers wanting to have large scale lower costs that's going to definitely drive it but much like OpenStack and Linux and some of these other things it's not going to be you know the guys going to go download it off the web and put it in production at AT&T you know it's going to be a prepackaged solution it's going to be embedded as part of it if you look at what Red Hat is doing with their OpenStack release we look what mirantis is doing with their OpenStack release again from an enterprise perspective and from a production in the MSP and second tier cloud that's what you're going to see more of so for us Sdn is critical because it allows us to then start to do things that we want to do for high-performance storage it allows us to change the value proposition in terms of if you look at Hadoop one of these we want to be able to do is take the storage engine module and run that on our card with our embedded V switch and our next gen ship so that we can do zero stack copies between nodes to improve latency so it's not just having RDMA is having a smart stack that goes with it and having the SDN capability to go out tell the controller pay no attention this little traffic that's going on over here you know these are not the droids you're looking for and then everything goes along pretty well so it's it's very fundamental and strategic but it's it's a game it's a market in which we're going to participate but it's not one we're going to try and write or do a distribution for okay any other VMware related activities q logics doing announcements this week that you want to share this week I would have to say no you know I think the one other thing that we're strategically working on them on with that you would expect is RDMA capabilities across vMotion visa and those sorts of things we've been one of the leaders in terms of doing genevieve which is the follow-on to VX land for hybrid cloud and that sort of thing and we see that as a key fundamental partnership technology with VMware going forward all right so let's turn back to qlogic for a second so the CEO recently left he DNA that there's a search going on so give us the company update if you will well actually there isn't a search so Jean who is gonna is going to run the ship forward as CEO we've brought in chris king who was on our board as executive chair in person chris has a lot of experience in the chip market and she understands that intimate tie that we have to that intel tick-tock model and really how you run an efficient ship driven organization you know whether we play in the systems in between level you know we're not quite the system but we're not quite the chip and understanding that market is part of what she does and the board has given us the green light to continue to go forward develop what we need to do in terms of the other pieces jean has a strong financial background she was acting CEO for a year between HK and simon aires me after Simon left so she's got the depth she knows the business and for us you know you know it's kind of a non op where everything else is continuing on as you would expect yeah okay last question I have for you Sean I mean the dynamics change for years you know what there was kind of the duopoly Xin the market I mean it was in tellin broadcom oh yeah on the ethernet side it was Emulex and amp qlogic it's a different conversation today I mean you mentioned Intel we talked about mellanox don't you logic you know your old friend I don't lie back on a vago bought broadcom and now they're called broadcom I think so yeah so you know layout for us you know kind of you know where you see that the horses on the track and you know what excites you yeah so again you know if you look at the the 10 gig side of the business clearly intel has the leadership position now we're number two in the market if you look at the shared data that's come out you know the the the Emulex part of a vago has been struggling in losing chair then we have this 25 gig transition that came in the market and that was driven by broadcom and you know for those of us who have followed this business they I think everyone can appreciate the irony of avago of avago buying Emulex and then for all the years we tried to keep him separate bringing them back together was but we-we've chuckled over a few beers on that one but then you've got this 25 gig transition and you know the other thing is that if you look at so let me step back and say the other thing on the 10 gig market is was a very very clear dividing line the enterprise was owned by the broadcom / qlogic emulex side the cloud the channel the the the appliance business was owned by Intel mellanox okay now as we go into this next generation you've got us mellanox and the the original broadcom team coming in with 25 game we've all done something that gets us through this consortium approach we're all going to have a night Ripley approach from there and Intel isn't there you know we haven't seen any announcements or anything specific from Emulex that they've said publicly in that space so right now we kind of view it as a two-horse race we think from a software perspective that our friends at at broadcom com whatever we want to call them or bravado I think is how r CT / first tool that I don't think they have a software depth to run this playbook right now and then we have to do is take our enterprise strength and move those things like load balancing and failover and the SDN tools and end par and all the virtualization capabilities we have we got to move those rapidly into the into the cloud space and go after it for us it means we have to be more open source driven than we have been in the past it means that we have a different street fight for every one of these it represents a change in some of the sales model and how we go to market so you know not to say that we're you know we we've got all of everything wrapped up and perfect in this market but again right time right place and this will be the transition for another you know we think three to five years and there's there's still a lot of interesting things that are happening ironically one of the most interesting things I think it's got to happen in 25 is this use of the of the new little profile connectors I think that will do more to help the adoption of 25 gig in Hunter gig where you can use the RCX or r XC connector there's our cxr see I forgot the acronym but it kind of looks like the firewire HDMI connectors that you have on your laptop's now and now imagine that you can have a car that has that connector in a form factor that's you know maybe a half inch square and now you've got incredible port density and you can dynamically change between 25 50 and 100 on the fly well let Sean Sean you know we've always talked there's a lot of complexity that goes in under the covers and it's the interest who's got a good job of making that simple and consumable right and help tried those new textures go forward all right Sean thank you so much for joining us we'll be right back with lots more coverage including some more networking in-depth conversation thank you for watching thanks for having me

bye okay welcome back everyone this is SiliconANGLE and Mookie bonds to cube our flagship program we got the advances reconsider from the noise I'm John foreach n with Dave vellante here for just a conversation Dave about what's going on oracle openworld day one of three days of live coverage here in San Francisco what's your take dick well first of all John miss you yes I had furrier withdrawals here so welcome back them first segment we've done together all day I was out at Santa Barbara last night in checking out the scene down there made it back not going to miss an Oracle OpenWorld for the world I love a work eloping world because it's like Isla Vista in Santa Barbara except it's tech people going crazy over the technology so mas coyote is draped in Red John well different in a few weeks ago at vmworld but I mean it's always great because you know Oracle has the muscle Dave as you know we always talk about every year Oracle's so you know transitioning from that telco role of extracting value from the ecosystem Oracle's making moves Larry Ellison really is a gamer he wants to make his mark on the industry he sees himself as the heir apparent to steve jobs in the end the end the historic hall fame of tech industry and he's here to win it's a game to him and I think you see oracle just in the past four years since we've been covering them being kind of a this is a throwaway game for them to like really being in the game they're making the announcements they're heavy and cloud they're making a faster more relevant timely announcements again they're a monster they're in there a huge accounts huge dollars and a rounding number on their sales spreadsheet would take a company public these days so you know those startups are doing well Oracle still has the muscle and they have huge clients and I'm going to watch and I think you know you ask me might take perform over here a consistent story from Oracle it's engineered software engineered heart with hardware it's vertical integration it's trying to develop best to breed its spending on R&D now they've basically co-op to the Big Data theme you know we hear a lot about their cloud so you know it's fun to criticize Oracle right they charge a lot a you know coops industry terms and act like they invented it on and on but here's the deal they spent a lot of money on R&D Allison's like a start-up CEO I mean he's that engage them I resisted this session talking to some executives and in the infrastructure business and they're telling me I Larry's call me every week wants to know the update on the new product and output when it's coming when it's ready you know herds the same way so you guys are intense focus on as you said winning that is all about winning it's a zero-sum game to Oracle it's the chest it's a chess board for Larry and I think you know one of the things we're seeing some news here we had our guys at the press conference mark hurd made an announcement about the human capital management software you know they're you know it's classic Oracle swiping at the competition work day has been booming of late and you know they're under pressure you know and you know workday asli the PeopleSoft guides have a huge chip on their shoulder they're winning they're doing well and Oracle's not happy about it so I mean obviously they're going to be moving very very aggressive against that and then just in all fronts the chessboard of conversion infrastructure the Sun acquisition really the ultimate cherry on top for Oracle relative to their future positioning they are betting the ranch on an apple-like strategy where containing the hardware focusing on the software and bundling in the hardware to the software as a fully enclosed system purpose-built hardening it out is ultimately their big bet David I'm telling you it will work for some companies and that lock in is a small price to pay for the functionality if they can deliver well and I think they I think Oracle can deliver you know the question is is as we're talking about with ray Wang can they deliver both on the promise of integrated systems I have no doubt Oracle can do that because they're spending a lot of money on it they got good technology people they've got good technology and and so eventually they're going to make that integration play work and they already are making Network the big question I have John is can they innovate and be best to breed at each layer of the stack that's something that's really hard to do guys like EMC and Cisco and VMware have chosen to partner to do that that's always been IBM's big challenge right i mean what's IBM number one at what product is IBM number one besides mainframes it's hard to come up with one okay then same question of Oracle what product is Oracle number one at besides database that's Oracle's challenge you know can they be best in storage can they be best in servers can they be best in applications they would argue their best in applications and I think big date is a big challenge here we heard inside the cube here day one that people don't want to pay licenses for data that's not being used and there's a big issue around the how data works how people using their computing environment it's not a monolithic environment anymore relative to the database there's new unstructured environments most of the data is not stored in relational databases why should I pay an Oracle lights of them I got virtualization I got scale-out open source these are new environments that are putting great pressure on Oracle and if you look at Mark Hurd and how he reports to the street all he talks about is our revenues licenses are up x percent barrel tins of the market well if demarcus declining and you're up what does that mean maybe this shifting to another area so Dave this is a concern that I have about Oracle is their core business metrics might not be on the right numbers yes software's growing relative to what I'm a declining market or shifting market those are the open questions we will find out this backdoor I think that well here's here's something I want to share with you so we did some wheat research and Wikibon fifty percent of the customers that we talked to in the Wikibon community said they're willing to risk lock-in to get integration and function so then and only fifteen percent said we're dogmatic about open source now over time that open source crowd as you well know is going to build up the capabilities but fifteen percent is the toehold for the start of startup crowd Oracle's working on that fat middle and that's really where they do let's talk about the dogmen the dogma for IT enterprises simply there's contract negotiations all posturing for contract negotiations almost every single CIO I talk to and we've talked to Dave have either told us publicly and privately hey at the end of the day I care about the cost structure the environment and to if there's a hardened top unlock in it doesn't it's irrelevant then and the example that we've always using the cube is you the Intel microprocessor do you really care about the proprietary software involved in an Intel processor no just gets the job done and it enables other things that's the key question that we're looking at right now in the computer industry is where is that hardened environment where being collapse elation of the complexity has been taken away to the point where it's absolutely functional that is ultimately to be the key and I think that's going to have to enable data fabric layer and then top of stack of applications I think that's a VMware strategy is a good one I think of Oracle can pull that off they could be the Intel of this cloud error well the other big battle is the organizational battle because Oracle obviously sells the dbas and application heads and everybody else in the hardware business sells to infrastructure people and let's face it the dba's and the application heads have all the juice in the marketplace so that's those guys are driving the buying decisions now as companies like VMware become more strategic they can maybe get some access to those individuals but still Oracle an essay p own that it all you do skoda you go to sa p sapphire you come to oracle openworld a lot of suits you go to emc world and you're seeing you know a lot of infrastructure people so that's a big battle that people taking on but i would if i'm a customer i would absolutely have some alternative infrastructure around wouldn't go just all red stack there might be some situations where i want to do that i guess the point I'm making is a lot of the application heads don't care if they spend more on infrastructure they don't care if they get locked in because they care about how fast the application runs how easy it is deploy how agile it is what their service experience is like that's what they care about I think ultimately it's going to come down at ability to be flexible have the application support so Oracle obviously will have the ability in most their companies to do that the question is do they have the right product mix and I think giving the customer's choice that's what we've seen with OpenStack in particular and you look at OpenStack what that's done is given this choice to the enterprise's to do whatever they want relative to having a private and public and hybrid cloud environment and that's ultimately going to help with the kind of the choice option so I mean that's kind of we've heard Oracle's portfolio or has got one of everything we heard you were in the cards so you didn't hear Thomas curing this morning but I mean you would have thought they were invent big data I mean it was a dupe connectors in-memory databases you're talking oh you know no sequel key value stores we got at all and they do actually have a lot of that hey so the portfolio is very robust they can tick the boxes they can they can play that functionality game with anybody and the real advantages they talk to the CIO now over here you've got the walk-off the marc andreessen crowd right none of my startups by Oracle hey stuff so it's those guys it's the open source crowd that ultimately is going to get leverage in the marketplace and you know John you and I have talked about this in the cube a lot ultimately long term open source wins Gary Blum was on the cube earlier CEO of now CEO president MarkLogic Dave he's been a I think 17 years of Oracle insane amount of years he's been there from the beginning he goes back to veritas as well you know he had an interesting point he said that in MarkLogic they have a half a DBA for ten dba's that are on staff for oracle that's a nine and a half labor pool reduction in cost and you're granted some of those guys might retire kind of like mainframe guys in the old days but like still you don't know about a massive amount of restricting of resources I want to get your take on the data economy type role I mean the data economy we're talking about new economics what's your take on I mean that ratio is really the kind of magnitude we're seeing relative the big data so here's my take on that is is I think that rightly so the startups are doing what Larry always does he compares his state of the art to somebody else's n minus 2 and that's what the startups are doing right there's a lot of legacy Oracle environments very easy to go in and say okay I can reduce your operating expense here's the challenge Oracle knows this and they see that threat so what Oracle's trying to do is is is cut that you know to whatever degree it can cut that and and close that gap and then you know have the cios bet on oracle because their quote unquote less risky right nobody ever get fired for bringing on IBM so the game that they have to play I heard Gary say we have a five-year lead on the competition so it's like fusion-io and EMC right EMC it lead on on emc we had packed LC on the QB said hey we're behind we're going to catch up how did they catch up they went out and they bought a company now I haven't caught up yet but they went out bought a company they started investing R&D but they're closing that gap and so that's the game that they play okay we're here inside the cube this is SiliconANGLE Yvonne's coverage of the cube stay with us we're going to be going to come back with Jeff Kelly Dave next we have any more guests coming in we're done this is a wrap for the day okay we'll be back tomorrow on Tuesday stay here SiliconANGLE guns the cue our flagship program day one wrap up here at Oracle OpenWorld yes my goal she's coming on we got a bunch of guys coming on from emc emc has 80,000 oracle customers oracle itself says it has 40,000 hardware customers so that's going to be an interesting we want having a special thanks out the qlogic for letting us stay in their booth again fourth consecutive year the legacy SiliconANGLE and CNBC are broadcasting live here at oracle openworld this is day one coverage with new Act tomorrow with the keynote in the middle of the afternoon all day coverage starting at nine at ten o'clock tomorrow morning here from the cube stay with us and see you tomorrow