>>Hey everyone, welcome to this event, HPE Compute Security. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Kevin Dee joins me next Senior director, future Surfer Architecture at hpe. Kevin, it's great to have you back on the program. >>Thanks, Lisa. I'm glad to be here. >>One of the topics that we're gonna unpack in this segment is, is all about cybersecurity. And if we think of how dramatically the landscape has changed in the last couple of years, I was looking at some numbers that H P V E had provided. Cybercrime will reach 10.5 trillion by 2025. It's a couple years away. The average total cost of a data breach is now over 4 million, 15% year over year crime growth predicted over the next five years. It's no longer if we get hit, it's when it's how often. What's the severity? Talk to me about the current situation with the cybersecurity landscape that you're seeing. >>Yeah, I mean the, the numbers you're talking about are just staggering and then that's exactly what we're seeing and that's exactly what we're hearing from our customers is just absolutely key. Customers have too much to lose. The, the dollar cost is just, like I said, staggering. And, and here at HP we know we have a huge part to play, but we also know that we need partnerships across the industry to solve these problems. So we have partnered with, with our, our various partners to deliver these Gen 11 products. Whether we're talking about partners like a M D or partners like our Nick vendors, storage card vendors. We know we can't solve the problem alone. And we know this, the issue is huge. And like you said, the numbers are staggering. So we're really, we're really partnering with, with all the right players to ensure we have a secure solution so we can stay ahead of the bad guys to try to limit the, the attacks on our customers. >>Right. Limit the damage. What are some of the things that you've seen particularly change in the last 18 months or so? Anything that you can share with us that's eye-opening, more eye-opening than some of the stats we already shared? >>Well, there, there's been a massive number of attacks just in the last 12 months, but I wouldn't really say it's so much changed because the amount of attacks has been increasing dramatically over the years for many, many, many years. It's just a very lucrative area for the bad guys, whether it's ransomware or stealing personal data, whatever it is, it's there. There's unfortunately a lot of money to be made into it, made from it, and a lot of money to be lost by the good guys, the good guys being our customers. So it's not so much that it's changed, it's just that it's even accelerating faster. So the real change is, it's accelerating even faster because it's becoming even more lucrative. So we have to stay ahead of these bad guys. One of the statistics of Microsoft operating environments, the number of tax in the last year, up 50% year over year, that's a huge acceleration and we've gotta stay ahead of that. We have to make sure our customers don't get impacted to the level that these, these staggering number of attacks are. The, the bad guys are out there. We've gotta protect, protect our customers from the bad guys. >>Absolutely. The acceleration that you talked about is, it's, it's kind of frightening. It's very eye-opening. We do know that security, you know, we've talked about it for so long as a, as a a C-suite priority, a board level priority. We know that as some of the data that HPE e also sent over organizations are risking are, are listing cyber risks as a top five concern in their organization. IT budgets spend is going up where security is concerned. And so security security's on everyone's mind. In fact, the cube did, I guess in the middle part of last, I did a series on this really focusing on cybersecurity as a board issue and they went into how companies are structuring security teams changing their assumptions about the right security model, offense versus defense. But security's gone beyond the board, it's top of mind and it's on, it's in an integral part of every conversation. So my question for you is, when you're talking to customers, what are some of the key challenges that they're saying, Kevin, these are some of the things the landscape is accelerating, we know it's a matter of time. What are some of those challenges and that they're key pain points that they're coming to you to help solve? >>Yeah, at the highest level it's simply that security is incredibly important to them. We talked about the numbers. There's so much money to be lost that what they come to us and say, is security's important for us? What can you do to protect us? What can you do to prevent us from being one of those statistics? So at a high level, that's kind of what we're seeing at a, with a little more detail. We know that there's customers doing digital transformations. We know that there's customers going hybrid cloud, they've got a lot of initiatives on their own. They've gotta spend a lot of time and a lot of bandwidth tackling things that are important to their business. They just don't have the bandwidth to worry about yet. Another thing which is security. So we are doing everything we can and partnering with everyone we can to help solve those problems for customers. >>Cuz we're hearing, hey, this is huge, this is too big of a risk. How do you protect us? And by the way, we only have limited bandwidth, so what can we do? What we can do is make them assured that that platform is secure, that we're, we are creating a foundation for a very secure platform and that we've worked with our partners to secure all the pieces. So yes, they still have to worry about security, but there's pieces that we've taken care of that they don't have to worry about and there's capabilities that we've provided that they can use and we've made that easy so they can build su secure solutions on top of it. >>What are some of the things when you're in customer conversations, Kevin, that you talk about with customers in terms of what makes HPE E'S approach to security really unique? >>Well, I think a big thing is security is part of our, our dna. It's part of everything we do. Whether we're designing our own asics for our bmc, the ilo ASIC ILO six used on Gen 11, or whether it's our firmware stack, the ILO firmware, our our system, UFI firmware, all those pieces in everything we do. We're thinking about security. When we're building products in our factory, we're thinking about security. When we're think designing our supply chain, we're thinking about security. When we make requirements on our suppliers, we're driving security to be a key part of those components. So security is in our D N a security's top of mind. Security is something we think about in everything we do. We have to think like the bad guys, what could the bad guy take advantage of? What could the bad guy exploit? So we try to think like them so that we can protect our customers. >>And so security is something that that really is pervasive across all of our development organizations, our supply chain organizations, our factories, and our partners. So that's what we think is unique about HPE is because security is so important and there's a whole lot of pieces of our reliance servers that we do ourselves that many others don't do themselves. And since we do it ourselves, we can make sure that security's in the design from the start, that those pieces work together in a secure manner. So we think that gives us a, an advantage from a security standpoint. >>Security is very much intention based at HPE e I was reading in some notes, and you just did a great job of talking about this, that fundamental security approach, security is fundamental to defend against threats that are increasingly complex through what you also call an uncompromising focus to state-of-the-art security and in in innovations built into your D N A. And then organizations can protect their infrastructure, their workloads, their data from the bad guys. Talk to us briefly in our final few minutes here, Kevin, about fundamental uncompromising protected the value in it for me as an HPE customer. >>Yeah, when we talk about fundamental, we're talking about the those fundamental technologies that are part of our platform. Things like we've integrated TPMS and sorted them down in our platforms. We now have platform certificates as a standard part of the platform. We have I dev id and probably most importantly, our platforms continue to support what we really believe was a groundbreaking technology, Silicon Root of trust and what that's able to do. We have millions of lines of firmware code in our platforms and with Silicon Root of trust, we can authenticate all of those lines of firmware. Whether we're talking about the the ILO six firmware, our U E I firmware, our C P L D in the system, there's other pieces of firmware. We authenticate all those to make sure that not a single line of code, not a single bit has been changed by a bad guy, even if the bad guy has physical access to the platform. >>So that silicon route of trust technology is making sure that when that system boots off and that hands off to the operating system and then eventually the customer's application stack that it's starting with a solid foundation, that it's starting with a system that hasn't been compromised. And then we build other things into that silicon root of trust, such as the ability to do the scans and the authentications at runtime, the ability to automatically recover if we detect something has been compromised, we can automatically update that compromised piece of firmware to a good piece before we've run it because we never want to run firmware that's been compromised. So that's all part of that Silicon Root of Trust solution and that's a fundamental piece of the platform. And then when we talk about uncompromising, what we're really talking about there is how we don't compromise security. >>And one of the ways we do that is through an extension of our Silicon Root of trust with a capability called S Spdm. And this is a technology that we saw the need for, we saw the need to authenticate our option cards and the firmware in those option cards. Silicon Root Prota, Silicon Root Trust protects against many attacks, but one piece it didn't do is verify the actual option card firmware and the option cards. So we knew to solve that problem we would have to partner with others in the industry, our nick vendors, our storage controller vendors, our G vendors. So we worked with industry standards bodies and those other partners to design a capability that allows us to authenticate all of those devices. And we worked with those vendors to get the support both in their side and in our platform side so that now Silicon Rivers and trust has been extended to where we protect and we trust those option cards as well. >>So that's when, when what we're talking about with Uncompromising and with with Protect, what we're talking about there is our capabilities around protecting against, for example, supply chain attacks. We have our, our trusted supply chain solution, which allows us to guarantee that our server, when it leaves our factory, what the server is, when it leaves our factory, will be what it is when it arrives at the customer. And if a bad guy does anything in that transition, the transit from our factory to the customer, they'll be able to detect that. So we enable certain capabilities by default capability called server configuration lock, which can ensure that nothing in the server exchange, whether it's firmware, hardware, configurations, swapping out processors, whatever it is, we'll detect if a bad guy did any of that and the customer will know it before they deploy the system. That gets enabled by default. >>We have an intrusion detection technology option when you use by the, the trusted supply chain that is included by default. That lets you know, did anybody open that system up, even if the system's not plugged in, did somebody take the hood off and potentially do something malicious to it? We also enable a capability called U EFI secure Boot, which can go authenticate some of the drivers that are located on the option card itself. Those kind of capabilities. Also ilo high security mode gets enabled by default. So all these things are enabled in the platform to ensure that if it's attacked going from our factory to the customer, it will be detected and the customer won't deploy a system that's been maliciously attacked. So that's got >>It, >>How we protect the customer through those capabilities. >>Outstanding. You mentioned partners, my last question for you, we've got about a minute left, Kevin is bring AMD into the conversation, where do they fit in this >>AMD's an absolutely crucial partner. No one company even HP can do it all themselves. There's a lot of partnerships, there's a lot of synergies working with amd. We've been working with AMD for almost 20 years since we delivered our first AM MD base ProLiant back in 2004 H HP ProLiant, DL 5 85. So we've been working with them a long time. We work with them years ahead of when a processor is announced, we benefit each other. We look at their designs and help them make their designs better. They let us know about their technology so we can take advantage of it in our designs. So they have a lot of security capabilities, like their memory encryption technologies, their a MD secure processor, their secure encrypted virtualization, which is an absolutely unique and breakthrough technology to protect virtual machines and hypervisor environments and protect them from malicious hypervisors. So they have some really great capabilities that they've built into their processor, and we also take advantage of the capabilities they have and ensure those are used in our solutions and in securing the platform. So a really such >>A great, great partnership. Great synergies there. Kevin, thank you so much for joining me on the program, talking about compute security, what HPE is doing to ensure that security is fundamental, that it is unpromised and that your customers are protected end to end. We appreciate your insights, we appreciate your time. >>Thank you very much, Lisa. >>We've just had a great conversation with Kevin Depu. Now I get to talk with David Chang, data center solutions marketing lead at a md. David, welcome to the program. >>Thank, thank you. And thank you for having me. >>So one of the hot topics of conversation that we can't avoid is security. Talk to me about some of the things that AMD is seeing from the customer's perspective, why security is so important for businesses across industries. >>Yeah, sure. Yeah. Security is, is top of mind for, for almost every, every customer I'm talking to right now. You know, there's several key market drivers and, and trends, you know, in, out there today that's really needing a better and innovative solution for, for security, right? So, you know, the high cost of data breaches, for example, will cost enterprises in downtime of, of the data center. And that time is time that you're not making money, right? And potentially even leading to your, to the loss of customer confidence in your, in your cust in your company's offerings. So there's real costs that you, you know, our customers are facing every day not being prepared and not having proper security measures set up in the data center. In fact, according to to one report, over 400 high-tech threats are being introduced every minute. So every day, numerous new threats are popping up and they're just, you know, the, you know, the bad guys are just getting more and more sophisticated. So you have to take, you know, measures today and you have to protect yourself, you know, end to end with solutions like what a AM MD and HPE has to offer. >>Yeah, you talked about some of the costs there. They're exorbitant. I've seen recent figures about the average, you know, cost of data breacher ransomware is, is close to, is over $4 million, the cost of, of brand reputation you brought up. That's a great point because nobody wants to be the next headline and security, I'm sure in your experiences. It's a board level conversation. It's, it's absolutely table stakes for every organization. Let's talk a little bit about some of the specific things now that A M D and HPE E are doing. I know that you have a really solid focus on building security features into the EPIC processors. Talk to me a little bit about that focus and some of the great things that you're doing there. >>Yeah, so, you know, we partner with H P E for a long time now. I think it's almost 20 years that we've been in business together. And, and you know, we, we help, you know, we, we work together design in security features even before the silicons even, you know, even born. So, you know, we have a great relationship with, with, with all our partners, including hpe and you know, HPE has, you know, an end really great end to end security story and AMD fits really well into that. You know, if you kind of think about how security all started, you know, in, in the data center, you, you've had strategies around encryption of the, you know, the data in, in flight, the network security, you know, you know, VPNs and, and, and security on the NS. And, and even on the, on the hard drives, you know, data that's at rest. >>You know, encryption has, you know, security has been sort of part of that strategy for a a long time and really for, you know, for ages, nobody really thought about the, the actual data in use, which is, you know, the, the information that's being passed from the C P U to the, the, the memory and, and even in virtualized environments to the, the, the virtual machines that, that everybody uses now. So, you know, for a long time nobody really thought about that app, you know, that third leg of, of encryption. And so a d comes in and says, Hey, you know, this is things that as, as the bad guys are getting more sophisticated, you, you have to start worrying about that, right? And, you know, for example, you know, you know, think, think people think about memory, you know, being sort of, you know, non-persistent and you know, when after, you know, after a certain time, the, the, you know, the, the data in the memory kind of goes away, right? >>But that's not true anymore because even in in memory data now, you know, there's a lot of memory modules that still can retain data up to 90 minutes even after p power loss. And with something as simple as compressed, compressed air or, or liquid nitrogen, you can actually freeze memory dams now long enough to extract the data from that memory module for up, you know, up, up to two or three hours, right? So lo more than enough time to read valuable data and, and, and even encryption keys off of that memory module. So our, our world's getting more complex and you know, more, the more data out there, the more insatiable need for compute and storage. You know, data management is becoming all, all the more important, you know, to keep all of that going and secure, you know, and, and creating security for those threats. It becomes more and more important. And, and again, especially in virtualized environments where, you know, like hyperconverged infrastructure or vir virtual desktop memories, it's really hard to keep up with all those different attacks, all those different attack surfaces. >>It sounds like what you were just talking about is what AMD has been able to do is identify yet another vulnerability Yes. Another attack surface in memory to be able to, to plug that hole for organizations that didn't, weren't able to do that before. >>Yeah. And, you know, and, and we kind of started out with that belief that security needed to be scalable and, and able to adapt to, to changing environments. So, you know, we, we came up with, you know, the, you know, the, the philosophy or the design philosophy that we're gonna continue to build on those security features generational generations and stay ahead of those evolving attacks. You know, great example is in, in the third gen, you know, epic C P U, that family that we had, we actually created this feature called S E V S N P, which stands for SECURENESS Paging. And it's really all around this, this new attack where, you know, your, the, the, you know, it's basically hypervisor based attacks where people are, you know, the bad actors are writing in to the memory and writing in basically bad data to corrupt the mem, you know, to corrupt the data in the memory. So s e V S and P is, was put in place to help, you know, secure that, you know, before that became a problem. And, you know, you heard in the news just recently that that becoming a more and more, more of a bigger issue. And the great news is that we had that feature built in, you know, before that became a big problem. >>And now you're on the fourth gen, those epic crosses talk of those epic processes. Talk to me a little bit about some of the innovations that are now in fourth gen. >>Yeah, so in fourth gen we actually added, you know, on top of that. So we've, we've got, you know, the sec the, the base of our, our, what we call infinity guard is, is all around the secure boot. The, you know, the, the, the, the secure root of trust that, you know, that we, we work with HPE on the, the strong memory encryption and the S E V, which is the secure encrypted virtualization. And so remember those s s and p, you know, incap capabilities that I talked about earlier. We've actually, in the fourth gen added two x the number of sev v s and P guests for even higher number of confidential VMs to support even more customers than before. Right? We've also added more guest protection from simultaneous multi threading or S M T side channel attacks. And, you know, while it's not officially part of Infinity Guard, we've actually added more APEC acceleration, which greatly benefits the security of those confidential VMs with the larger number of VCPUs, which basically means that you can build larger VMs and still be secured. And then lastly, we actually added even stronger a e s encryption. So we went from 128 bit to 256 bit, which is now military grade encryption on top of that. And, you know, and, and that's really, you know, the de facto crypto cryptography that is used for most of the applications for, you know, customers like the US federal government and, and all, you know, the, is really an essential element for memory security and the H B C applications. And I always say if it's good enough for the US government, it's good enough for you. >>Exactly. Well, it's got to be, talk a little bit about how AMD is doing this together with HPE a little bit about the partnership as we round out our conversation. >>Sure, absolutely. So security is only as strong as the layer below it, right? So, you know, that's why modern security must be built in rather than, than, you know, bolted on or, or, or, you know, added after the fact, right? So HPE and a MD actually developed this layered approach for protecting critical data together, right? Through our leadership and, and security features and innovations, we really deliver a set of hardware based features that, that help decrease potential attack surfaces. With, with that holistic approach that, you know, that safeguards the critical information across system, you know, the, the entire system lifecycle. And we provide the confidence of built-in silicon authentication on the world's most secure industry standard servers. And with a 360 degree approach that brings high availability to critical workloads while helping to defend, you know, against internal and external threats. So things like h hp, root of silicon root of trust with the trusted supply chain, which, you know, obviously AMD's part of that supply chain combined with AMD's Infinity guard technology really helps provide that end-to-end data protection in today's business. >>And that is so critical for businesses in every industry. As you mentioned, the attackers are getting more and more sophisticated, the vulnerabilities are increasing. The ability to have a pa, a partnership like H P E and a MD to deliver that end-to-end data protection is table stakes for businesses. David, thank you so much for joining me on the program, really walking us through what am MD is doing, the the fourth gen epic processors and how you're working together with HPE to really enable security to be successfully accomplished by businesses across industries. We appreciate your insights. >>Well, thank you again for having me, and we appreciate the partnership with hpe. >>Well, you wanna thank you for watching our special program HPE Compute Security. I do have a call to action for you. Go ahead and visit hpe com slash security slash compute. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Actifio data driven 2020 brought to you by Actifio. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman. This is the cubes coverage of Actifio data driven, happy to welcome to the program, the Co-founder and Chief Product Officer David Chang with Actifio. Thanks so much for joining us. Great to have you back on theCUBE. >> Great to be here, Stu, thank you. >> All right, so the big theme of the event is the next normal, of course, we've been talking about transformation of data for many years, but the global pandemic has put a real emphasis on some of the transformations that customers are going through and alluding to that next normal because definitely things have changed a bit. What, give us if you could kind of a high level, you know what you've been seeing, you've been there since the start for Actifio. So, you know, what is that next normal for customers? >> Yeah, absolutely, so I would say over the span of the last two years, we've seen definitely a accelerated ramp into the Clouds. But I think this whole pandemic has really accelerated. I mean, this really telltale sign came in, we actually, prior to the pandemic hit, we closed a large European customer. And within a span of two weeks, they were saying, you know, "I can't get access to my data center for all the important work that I have to do." And with Actifio like to move everything into the Cloud. So within the span of three weeks, we were able to move a lot of their critical workloads with them. So I think that gave us the telltale sign that this thing is really truly accelerating. >> Yeah, it absolutely there's that acceleration. It's tough to move data, though. It's not like we can just say, "Okay, hey, you know, we've got petabytes, you know, that the laws of physics still are in place." And also with that move to Cloud, you know, backup and recovery, you know, disaster recovery, you know, still critically important so and any learnings that you've had this year or things where you've had to, you know, help out customers, as they say, "We need to move fast, but we also need to stay secure. And we need to make sure that our data is safe." >> Absolutely, so I think there's a major difference between the lift and shift model in terms of your way at your application infrastructure, and then the actual foundation, building block you're using those pieces are very difficult to lift and shift, because Cloud fundamentally present different set of building blocks. A great example here is that object storage, you know, it's the most scalable and lowest cost storage available in the public sort of Cloud hyperscaler infrastructure. And without that, trying to move to the Cloud would be very difficult indeed, trying to make the infrastructure match. >> So let's dig in and talk a little bit about how Cloud really transforms storage, you know, back in the storage industry, we've talked for a long time that you know, object was the future and that's, what Cloud was built on. So you've got large scalability, you've got some great cost efficiencies. You know, what does that mean for the Actifio solutions and your customer? >> Yeah, I think from the very beginning, I would say recall this conversation three or four years ago, when we were looking at what are some of the next generation architecture we want to build the Actifio technology on? It was very clearly that object storage needs to be front and center in everything we do. It's not a it's a maybe a little known fact. But Amazon AWS service initially started with the S3 architecture and that was the very first service they brought live within the AWS sort of product portfolio. So it is as fundamental to the Cloud as you know, EC2 more so than containers and so on and so forth. And the fact that you have this almost linear scalability horizontally to exabytes of storage and the fact that you can essentially leverage all the performance you need to get out the object storage that's all built into the environment. Those are some of the critical pieces and obviously, the low cost, you know, compared with SSD or spinning drives on the on the EC2 environment, those are all some of the critical elements on why object storage is so critical in this whole Cloud migration, if you will. >> Yeah, I wonder if we could talk a little bit about the application sort of things because of course, the architecture matters, but it's really the the outcomes, it's the reason we have infrastructures for the applications and of course one of the most mission critical applications. We've talked about data, it's those databases. We've seen a lot of transformation in the database world. Most customers I talked to now, it's not their one central source of truth. They now have many databases, especially in the Cloud we've seen that kind of Cambrian explosion of options out there. What does that meant for your customers? You know, take us inside, you know, that most important database world. >> Yeah, I think any customer with their interest to go into the Cloud or minimize the on premise environment anyway, the very first thing they think about is what are I most critical application I need to move right? Database are typically it. You know, there are companies that has a lot of, I would say, projects around migrating some of the traditional databases into NoSQL, or even hosted services like RDS. But I would say the vast majority of the database population that's in fact, that's essentially in production today are some of the traditional databases. So that tend to be also tend to be the most difficult problem in terms of trying to migrate the workload to the Cloud or DR or business continuity into the Cloud. >> So David, how about you know what is new from Actifio now? What should customers be looking at when we talk about the storage capabilities? >> So I would say the first thing is that Actifio allow our customers to kind of maintain the legacy databases they use. And by using Actifio, we normalize the entire Cloud infrastructures. So you can get all the same RPOs and RTOs that you're used to on premise into the Cloud. And through the adoption or of object storage down deep into their foundation blocks of our architecture, now, you can have sort of the best of both world. You can have this on demand capability or using from the public Clouds. You are, you know, getting capability as you need them. But also you can leverage sort of object storage without changing your application architecture, to get that performance and get to the sort of the cost point that you need to make that entire business viable. I think relatively recently, we did ESG sort of project that really validated that you can get 95 to 97% of the performance of SSD, but rather on object storage. And from a cost saving perspective, that cost say that cost actually went down by 88%. So it is indeed the best of both worlds, if you will. >> Yeah, you know, maybe explain that more a little bit more, if you could, yeah. Because, right, you want that scalability, you want high performance, but, you know, there's always been those architectural trade offs. So what is it that Actifio does, you're talking about the object storage that pairing with the Cloud capabilities? Help us understand, you know, what is differentiated about that solution? >> Yeah, absolutely, so I think in some ways, object storage has been getting a bad rap in terms of people's perception of slow performance and so on, so forth. But I think the real reason is because other vendors aren't using it incorrectly if you will. A lot of things we've seen in the past has, like legacy backup vendors taking sort of a looking at object storage as they tape replacement. With all object storage system, there is a fundamental limit on a per object performance you can get out the entire object infrastructure. But really the secret sauce Actifio came up with is to design an infrastructure that natively translate block or file storage that for example, Oracle SQL consumes, and then taking that data, sort of, if you will, from the application perspective, and divided into hundreds of thousands if not millions of objects and that can be spread across the entire object storage infrastructure. And this is how we get you get the performance if you will. That's very very similar if not almost identical to SSD even on object storage. >> Yeah, I saw a blog post on the Actifio site making a comparison to the SnowFlake database, of course, you know, super hot company lots of adoption in their Cloud service, help us understand a little bit, you know that that comparison that your team is making? >> Yeah, absolutely, I think it's a very interesting insight. I think both Actifio and SnowFlake probably independently arrived at the same conclusion about four or five years ago, that object storage is the foundation building block. And this is how you scale massive infrastructure at a cost that's effective for our business models, right? So I think, in many ways, if you look at how SnowFlakes works is they leverage this almost infinite scalability of object storage to consume sort of this data lake to store this data lake, and therefore they can effectively offer that basic service to your customer at a very low cost point. And then when they actually decide, the customer decide to use that information, this is where the business model works and they actually did start charging the customer. So that foundation building block of object storage on, you know, in terms of the fundamental building block for the SnowFlake service, I would argue is also the reasons why they're so popular today. >> Yeah, and David, you know, we've seen, you know, quite a change in the landscape since the early days of Actifio, it's interesting to hear you talk about those analogies with some of those, you know, Cloud native solutions. Give us a little bit of inside, you're the Chief Product officer. You know, what's the biggest change you'd say of Actifio today versus, you know, maybe how, when people first heard of their copy data management, you know, technology? >> Yeah, I would say I think we were kind of fortunate that when we started the company, the fundamental premise of being very efficient, very scalable, and instant reuse is a sort of fundamental premise of our product and architecture that has held true through technology evolution, you know, three or four different waves in the last, I would say 10 years. So I think what's currently the biggest difference between I would say, now versus Actifio five years ago, is that everything with everything we do, we're thinking Cloud first. This is how, you know, essentially, the Actifio platform has evolved into this normalization platform for enterprise customer to achieve the same RPOs and RTO the same applications and be able to using the some of the same building blocks across both their you know, hybrid infrastructure and also public Cloud infrastructure. >> Yeah, absolutely, that hybrid discussion has really dominated a lot of discussion the last couple of years. A challenge for, you know, the engineering teams is architecting into those environments. It's not just once you've got Amazon, you've got Azure, you've got Google, you've got others out there. What do you say? It doesn't feel like we have a standardization. And there's specific work that you need to do. But your ultimate customer, they want to be able to do it the same way no matter where they are. Give us a little bit of what you know, what you're seeing is some of the challenges and how Actifio is facing that. >> Yeah, I think there are fundamentally two ways to go to the Cloud. I think one is to entirely consume a log or higher log of functionality that Amazon Google and Azure has, right? That mean that does mean rewriting your application from scratch to take advantage of that. I think some of the benefit there is you have some very low entry cost and you don't have to worry about operationally how to keep that going. But I think more commonly, what we're seeing customer enterprise customer do is to taking their existing stack, rewriting portions of this and kind of build it on EC2 you know, and a container environment. And those are sort of I think, more of the more popular choices that people are making in terms of making the move to the Cloud at least from my enterprise customer perspective. And that is an area that Actifio could really help, by again, normalizing what they're familiar with on premise to the Cloud and we can provide the same service level and provide really this level of flexibility for you to shift workloads back and forth to make that work for your business case. >> Yeah, I'm curious, I remember back you talked about Actifio five years ago, and some of the early days it was like, "Well, you know, the traditional storage companies might not like Actifio because at the end of the day, they're going to sell less capacity. And that's really how they price things." Feels like the Cloud providers, think about it very different, you don't really think as much about, you know, "I don't buy capacity, I have scalability, I build out my applications in a certain way." Do you see that Cloud model taking over any other comparisons you'd make kind of the Cloud world versus the data center world? >> Yeah, I think it really I think that really the switches is very, very telling, right? It's very, I would say in some ways surprised a lot of people at the pace and and that it has happened. But I think it is, that pace is pretty solid at this point. I mean, we are seeing broad adoption of sort of that strategy all over the world, and it's only accelerating. >> All right, final question I have let's bring it on home that next normal, what do you want customers to have as their takeaway from this year's data driven event? >> I think they are, I think the probably the most important thing we want to communicate to our customer and potential prospect is that you can have the best of both world, right? It's not a one or two or other decision you have to make, you could be in the Cloud and enjoy a lot of the same benefits and saw a lot of the same service level that you're used to, but taken advantage of that, you know, there is a separate, very large company running world class operations for you in the Cloud. The elasticity of that capability is very important as well. But with Actifio without having to rewrite your application per se, you can have advantage if you will to of the new world, still maintaining the presence of the old and you can manage both environment in the same way. >> David Chang, thank you so much for the updates. Great to catch up with you and thanks for having us at the event. >> Thank you, Stu for having me. >> I'm Stu Miniman, and thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

from around the globe it's thecube with digital coverage of actifio data driven 2020 brought to you by actifio hi everybody my name is david chang i'm the chief product officer and co-founder of actifio extremely excited to have you join actifio's data driven where it's the only event customer essentially is on the center stage telling you what they're using actifio for excited to have you looking forward to the event

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Actifio data driven 2020 brought to you by Actifio. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman. This is the cubes coverage of Actifio data driven, happy to welcome to the program, the Co-founder and Chief Product Officer David Chang with Actifio. Thanks so much for joining us. Great to have you back on theCUBE. >> Great to be here, Stu, thank you. >> All right, so the big theme of the event is the next normal, of course, we've been talking about transformation of data for many years, but the global pandemic has put a real emphasis on some of the transformations that customers are going through and alluding to that next normal because definitely things have changed a bit. What, give us if you could kind of a high level, you know what you've been seeing, you've been there since the start for Actifio. So, you know, what is that next normal for customers? >> Yeah, absolutely, so I would say over the span of the last two years, we've seen definitely a accelerated ramp into the Clouds. But I think this whole pandemic has really accelerated. I mean, this really telltale sign came in, we actually, prior to the pandemic hit, we closed a large European customer. And within a span of two weeks, they were saying, you know, "I can't get access to my data center for all the important work that I have to do." And with Actifio like to move everything into the Cloud. So within the span of three weeks, we were able to move a lot of their critical workloads with them. So I think that gave us the telltale sign that this thing is really truly accelerating. >> Yeah, it absolutely there's that acceleration. It's tough to move data, though. It's not like we can just say, "Okay, hey, you know, we've got petabytes, you know, that the laws of physics still are in place." And also with that move to Cloud, you know, backup and recovery, you know, disaster recovery, you know, still critically important so and any learnings that you've had this year or things where you've had to, you know, help out customers, as they say, "We need to move fast, but we also need to stay secure. And we need to make sure that our data is safe." >> Absolutely, so I think there's a major difference between the lift and shift model in terms of your way at your application infrastructure, and then the actual foundation, building block you're using those pieces are very difficult to lift and shift, because Cloud fundamentally present different set of building blocks. A great example here is that object storage, you know, it's the most scalable and lowest cost storage available in the public sort of Cloud hyperscaler infrastructure. And without that, trying to move to the Cloud would be very difficult indeed, trying to make the infrastructure match. >> So let's dig in and talk a little bit about how Cloud really transforms storage, you know, back in the storage industry, we've talked for a long time that you know, object was the future and that's, what Cloud was built on. So you've got large scalability, you've got some great cost efficiencies. You know, what does that mean for the Actifio solutions and your customer? >> Yeah, I think from the very beginning, I would say recall this conversation three or four years ago, when we were looking at what are some of the next generation architecture we want to build the Actifio technology on? It was very clearly that object storage needs to be front and center in everything we do. It's not a it's a maybe a little known fact. But Amazon AWS service initially started with the S3 architecture and that was the very first service they brought live within the AWS sort of product portfolio. So it is as fundamental to the Cloud as you know, EC2 more so than containers and so on and so forth. And the fact that you have this almost linear scalability horizontally to exabytes of storage and the fact that you can essentially leverage all the performance you need to get out the object storage that's all built into the environment. Those are some of the critical pieces and obviously, the low cost, you know, compared with SSD or spinning drives on the on the EC2 environment, those are all some of the critical elements on why object storage is so critical in this whole Cloud migration, if you will. >> Yeah, I wonder if we could talk a little bit about the application sort of things because of course, the architecture matters, but it's really the the outcomes, it's the reason we have infrastructures for the applications and of course one of the most mission critical applications. We've talked about data, it's those databases. We've seen a lot of transformation in the database world. Most customers I talked to now, it's not their one central source of truth. They now have many databases, especially in the Cloud we've seen that kind of Cambrian explosion of options out there. What does that meant for your customers? You know, take us inside, you know, that most important database world. >> Yeah, I think any customer with their interest to go into the Cloud or minimize the on premise environment anyway, the very first thing they think about is what are I most critical application I need to move right? Database are typically it. You know, there are companies that has a lot of, I would say, projects around migrating some of the traditional databases into NoSQL, or even hosted services like RDS. But I would say the vast majority of the database population that's in fact, that's essentially in production today are some of the traditional databases. So that tend to be also tend to be the most difficult problem in terms of trying to migrate the workload to the Cloud or DR or business continuity into the Cloud. >> So David, how about you know what is new from Actifio now? What should customers be looking at when we talk about the storage capabilities? >> So I would say the first thing is that Actifio allow our customers to kind of maintain the legacy databases they use. And by using Actifio, we normalize the entire Cloud infrastructures. So you can get all the same RPOs and RTOs that you're used to on premise into the Cloud. And through the adoption or of object storage down deep into their foundation blocks of our architecture, now, you can have sort of the best of both world. You can have this on demand capability or using from the public Clouds. You are, you know, getting capability as you need them. But also you can leverage sort of object storage without changing your application architecture, to get that performance and get to the sort of the cost point that you need to make that entire business viable. I think relatively recently, we did ESG sort of project that really validated that you can get 95 to 97% of the performance of SSD, but rather on object storage. And from a cost saving perspective, that cost say that cost actually went down by 88%. So it is indeed the best of both worlds, if you will. >> Yeah, you know, maybe explain that more a little bit more, if you could, yeah. Because, right, you want that scalability, you want high performance, but, you know, there's always been those architectural trade offs. So what is it that Actifio does, you're talking about the object storage that pairing with the Cloud capabilities? Help us understand, you know, what is differentiated about that solution? >> Yeah, absolutely, so I think in some ways, object storage has been getting a bad rap in terms of people's perception of slow performance and so on, so forth. But I think the real reason is because other vendors aren't using it incorrectly if you will. A lot of things we've seen in the past has, like legacy backup vendors taking sort of a looking at object storage as they tape replacement. With all object storage system, there is a fundamental limit on a poor object performance you can get out the entire object infrastructure. But really the secret sauce Actifio came up with is to design an infrastructure that natively translate block or file storage that for example, Oracle SQL consumes, and then taking that data, sort of, if you will, from the application perspective, and divided into hundreds of thousands if not millions of objects and that can be spread across the entire object storage infrastructure. And this is how we get you get the performance if you will. That's very very similar if not almost identical to SSD even on object storage. >> Yeah, I saw a blog post on the Actifio site making a comparison to the SnowFlake database, of course, you know, super hot company lots of adoption in their Cloud service, help us understand a little bit, you know that that comparison that your team is making? >> Yeah, absolutely, I think it's a very interesting insight. I think both Actifio and SnowFlake probably independently arrived at the same conclusion about four or five years ago, that object storage is the foundation building block. And this is how you scale massive infrastructure at a cost that's effective for our business models, right? So I think, in many ways, if you look at how SnowFlakes works is they leverage this almost infinite scalability of object storage to consume sort of this data lake to store this data lake, and therefore they can effectively offer that basic service to your customer at a very low cost point. And then when they actually decide, the customer decide to use that information, this is where the business model works and they actually did start charging the customer. So that foundation building block of object storage on, you know, in terms of the fundamental building block for the SnowFlake service, I would argue is also the reasons why they're so popular today. >> Yeah, and David, you know, we've seen, you know, quite a change in the landscape since the early days of Actifio, it's interesting to hear you talk about those analogies with some of those, you know, Cloud native solutions. Give us a little bit of inside, you're the Chief Product officer. You know, what's the biggest change you'd say of Actifio today versus, you know, maybe how, when people first heard of their copy data management, you know, technology? >> Yeah, I would say I think we were kind of fortunate that when we started the company, the fundamental premise of being very efficient, very scalable, and instant reuse is a sort of fundamental premise of our product and architecture that has held true through technology evolution, you know, three or four different waves in the last, I would say 10 years. So I think what's currently the biggest difference between I would say, now versus Actifio five years ago, is that everything with everything we do, we're thinking Cloud first. This is how, you know, essentially, the Actifio platform has evolved into this normalization platform for enterprise customer to achieve the same RPOs and RTO the same applications and be able to using the some of the same building blocks across both their you know, hybrid infrastructure and also public Cloud infrastructure. >> Yeah, absolutely, that hybrid discussion has really dominated a lot of discussion the last couple of years. A challenge for, you know, the engineering teams is architecting into those environments. It's not just once you've got Amazon, you've got Azure, you've got Google, you've got others out there. What do you say? It doesn't feel like we have a standardization. And there's specific work that you need to do. But your ultimate customer, they want to be able to do it the same way no matter where they are. Give us a little bit of what you know, what you're seeing is some of the challenges and how Actifio is facing that. >> Yeah, I think there are fundamentally two ways to go to the Cloud. I think one is to entirely consume a log or higher log of functionality that Amazon Google and Azure has, right? That mean that does mean rewriting your application from scratch to take advantage of that. I think some of the benefit there is you have some very low entry cost and you don't have to worry about operationally how to keep that going. But I think more commonly, what we're seeing customer enterprise customer do is to taking their existing stack, rewriting portions of this and kind of build it on EC2 you know, and a container environment. And those are sort of I think, more of the more popular choices that people are making in terms of making the move to the Cloud at least from my enterprise customer perspective. And that is an area that Actifio could really help, by again, normalizing what they're familiar with on premise to the Cloud and we can provide the same service level and provide really this level of flexibility for you to shift workloads back and forth to make that work for your business case. >> Yeah, I'm curious, I remember back you talked about Actifio five years ago, and some of the early days it was like, "Well, you know, the traditional storage companies might not like Actifio because at the end of the day, they're going to sell less capacity. And that's really how they price things." Feels like the Cloud providers, think about it very different, you don't really think as much about, you know, "I don't buy capacity, I have scalability, I build out my applications in a certain way." Do you see that Cloud model taking over any other comparisons you'd make kind of the Cloud world versus the data center world? >> Yeah, I think it really I think that really the switches is very, very telling, right? It's very, I would say in some ways surprised a lot of people at the pace and and that it has happened. But I think it is, that pace is pretty solid at this point. I mean, we are seeing broad adoption of sort of that strategy all over the world, and it's only accelerating. >> All right, final question I have let's bring it on home that next normal, what do you want customers to have as their takeaway from this year's data driven event? >> I think they are, I think the probably the most important thing we want to communicate to our customer and potential prospect is that you can have the best of both world, right? It's not a one or two or other decision you have to make, you could be in the Cloud and enjoy a lot of the same benefits and saw a lot of the same service level that you're used to, but taken advantage of that, you know, there is a separate, very large company running world class operations for you in the Cloud. The elasticity of that capability is very important as well. But with Actifio without having to rewrite your application per se, you can have advantage if you will to of the new world, still maintaining the presence of the old and you can manage both environment in the same way. >> David Chang, thank you so much for the updates. Great to catch up with you and thanks for having us at the event. >> Thank you, Stu for having me. >> I'm Stu Miniman, and thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the cue with digital coverage of active Eo data driven 2020 Brought to you by activity. >>Hi, everybody. My name is David Chang. I'm the chief product officer and co founder of Active Fio. Extremely excited to have you joined Active feels data driven where it's the only event. Customer essentially is on the center stage telling you what they're using active before, excited to have you looking forward to the event.

>> from the Cosmopolitan Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the Cube covering Cooper inspired. 2019. Brought to you by Cooper. >> Welcome to the Cube. Lisa Martin on the ground at Cooper Inspire 19 at the Cosmopolitan, the chic Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas. Very pleased to be joined by my friend David Chang, the VP of business from Hello. Sign a drop box company. David, Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you for having me on. >> Great to have you here. It is a lot of fun. You could really geek out talking technology all day >> too much. So, >> yeah, there's that >> play that you gotta gamble. It'll keep it real. >> You know, I have no skills in that whatsoever, but maybe I'll try it. I'll take your advice. Give her audience an overview of Hello. Sign. Sure. Drop box Company. What? You guys are what you do. All that good stuff. >> Great. Great. So hello. Sign is today one of the fastest growing, if not the fastest growing electronic signature company in market place today and today we host, I think, over 100,000 paying businesses that use one of our products and over 150 different countries. today we actually were acquired by Dropbox. Sure, everybody's familiar Dropbox or one of the biggest brands in the Internet industry today by the leader in consumer and business files Thinking chair. So John Box actually purchased this, you know, for a number of reasons. First of all, even amazing product and cultural fit with them. But also, Electronic Signature Day is an enormous market. It is one piece of the overall digital transformation, but Elektronik, six year alone, analysts view, is probably a $25,000,000,000 industry, which we've only barely scratched the surface. So it's a huge opportunity, absolutely, and it's that big. That's exactly the you know. That's actually what's shocking about how big it is, because if you think about almost in every business, there are not just one, but probably dozens of different use cases where you need to sign documents. So electronic signature honestly is relevant for everything from all your sales agreements to all of your HR and offer letter and on boarding agreement. It's relevant specifically for all of your procurement and buying agreements, all your vendors contracts that need to be signed, your supply agreements that needs to be signed and D A s o purchase orders. All these documents need to be signed. And today you know, only a few of these use cases have been brought into the digital arena. So there's a whole huge area to grow. And with Dropbox being a leader and content management, where you normally store your documents, >> right, it's >> a natural workflow extension two haven't signed by. Hello, son. >> Excellent. Well, one of the things that we've been talking a lot about we talk about this in every show is the effects of consumer is Asian. And we talked about this yesterday with Rob Bernstein, Cooper's CEO in a number of gas yesterday and today is that we're consumers every day, even when we're at work. Oh, I forgot. I gotta buy this when we go on Amazon, we know we could get it in a day, but now we have the same expectations whether we're buying business, you know, software or what not? And we also want to be able to do things from our mobile phone, including sign. Hey, I got this new job offer or whatever happens to be without having out. Oh my God, there's a pdf. I have to go home, get to my desktop, talk to me about PDS because I can imagine when people either fill them out manually, then they scanning back in and somebody's gotta print it out or fax it. That date is stuck in Pdf. How does hello sign work to free dot data in a Pierre? >> Sure, our design philosophy really is about, you know, make making a superior user experience both for the person who needs to get a document, a document side, but also somebody who's actually gonna be signing it. So when we designed our products, you might as easy as possible for user's to sign that and recognizing some of the difficulties with P D EFS and signing on your mobile phone. We've made our products specifically Mobley responsive, so they don't have to pension, screen, pension, pension scan and all that kind of stuff and typing data. We make it very easy walking through the data entry process to streamline the whole process. We just want to make user customer satisfaction first and foremost >> moving the friction, probably getting documents signed much faster. >> Absolutely. I mean the base, you know, benefits associated the signature. Overall you know, our honestly getting your documents signed significantly faster and more efficiently. We have customers that used to take up to two weeks to get a contract signed. And, you know, as a salesperson, that gets your real nervous, right? So we've seen those contracts now get signed in less than a day. Also, Elektronik senator provides a tonic transparency. So throughout the process, we can actually provide notifications that let the sales people know that somebody's opened up the the >> end. Lt >> looked at the document, reviewed it, signed it, completed it. And even if the document has been signed, the consent of reminders to make sure to sign it. And the third thing is, you know you can't can't emphasize this enough. The value associate with productivity increases. Come on. Everyone's gone out. Printed out the document, walked it over to the scanning machine, you know, then uploading it back in your computer, you know that that whole step, you know, should be completely digital and automated as >> much as >> possible. So we see productivity increases to some of our customers between two x three x for X right in the number in reducing the number of man hours people have to spend to get >> documents only. Is that a cost savings? But all of the you can think of all the other benefits like we're talking about, even for the procurement officers were talking about it at Kuba inspires. It's not just saving money. It's all of the other ripple effects that cost savings, resource, reallocations, speed. All enable this digital transformation, which then enables the business Thio capture new customers. Increased customer, lifetime value, shareholder value. There's a lot of upside to this, >> especially for a company like Cooper. First of all, it's an incredible fit for what we do. Procurement documents. That whole host, um, they need to be signed but by, you know, utilizing Hello, son. We really facilitate that whole experience, and we're very excited to expand our partnership today. We're Cooper Advantage partner. >> Tell me about the Cooper Advantage program benefits. Who wins your >> coop? Advantage is this very unique marketplace that Cooper's brought together. They're pulling together both their customers, some of their lead customers and their matching them with some of the suppliers selected suppliers that provide their customers. Ah, whole host of service is that they need so it could be everything from goods and office supplies. All the way to service is like travel service is, and staffing service is all the way to software key software that their customers would utilize in conjunction with their procurement business. Spend management So companies like close on. So by matchmaking it for the suppliers, they get some pre negotiated discounts that offer them immediate savings off of buying direct from retail and then from ah, supplier side. We get huge benefits because we get to meet some of the most targeted companies that we want. So Cooper effectively is one of our favorite matchmakers. >> Nice. So, yeah, there's a tremendous amount of suppliers in their program. I forget the number and I don't want to misquote it. But I can imagine Cooper customer that's using them for procurement and expenses and invoices and payments. I talked a lot about Cooper pains of new things today. Well, then have the opportunity through the Cooper Advantage program to do prick human contract Scorpios with Hello sign as the e signature. >> Exactly, really, exactly. And that that is, like I said, a great match for what their customers need and by being virtue of a coupe advantage part. Sorry. Keep advantage Supplier. We've been pre vetted by Cooper have also worked out some special pre negotiated discounts with Cooper to make sure we passed that value on to their customers. >> So some of the things that came out today regarding yesterday as well with the Amazon extension you and I talked about the consumer ization affect a few minutes ago. What opportunities is that? Open up to Hello, sign for Cooper paid to be able to enable I t folks to have this visibility for the entire software from search to management. With this consume arised approach, open up doors for Hello Sign. >> Well, I think you know, if you look at the total life cycle of any purchase right from from beginning to end from everything from identifying the products that you want to being able to, you know, negotiate and secure a price that is good for you, you know that whole process. There's always tradition, but a lot of friction there. So the same way that there's friction on the e commerce side, we'll check out and purchase right and getting lining up your payment and Internet payment information Cooper. Streamlining that whole thing for the customer so long without sod is if there's documents they're associated with that with that workflow than by using companies like Hello Sign and our products were able to continue that process of digital izing the end and purchase cycle. >> And I imagine, from an information security perspective, everything >> Come on the old >> days usedto signed >> a contract and I thought, Oh, my boss's desk, Anybody could come by and pick that up So nowadays we you know nowadays we keep it stored securely in the cloud. We have some of the highest security requirements of any signature company out there, and that really matches Cupid's philosophy as well. They go overboard on security, which we really appreciate. That mission is completely lard with each other. >> Awesome. So last few seconds here. I know that you guys are early in the acquisition with Dropbox. What's exciting You for the rest of the calendar. 19. Since all these fiscal years are different. And what's next with you guys in Cuba? Yeah, >> So first of all, with Dropbox, we're just excited to be part of an enormous community of over 500,000,000 users globally So it's It's It's the reach is insane. >> I know >> my mom. Yeah, I think everybody has a DROPBOX account on >> eso getting introduced to their segments, whether it's a consumer segment, SMB and increasingly, the business segment offers huge brand recognition and the potential for new customers with Dropbox. So there's a great synergy from a go to market perspective, and with Cooper, we're very excited about the next stage of our partnership is entering the Cooper Link program. So, uh, you know said Now Cooper customers will be able to sign and send for signature from within the Cooper clr module. Eso any of their contracts vendor agreements that are stored within Cooper without ever having to leave Cooper. You consent for signature and seek the document back. And for a company like Cooper, this is a great strategic value. A because of the benefit it brings its customers, but also with all the great features that Cooper's coming out with leading edge. They want to keep a cz much of that procurement experience from within Cooper. They want Cooper to be that system of record per se and system of transaction for all your business. Ben Management So now you don't have to leave Cooper to perform to get your contract signed. You can do it from all within one place within Cooper, and we enable that. >> That's awesome. That's that's what we want. Keep him. In the experience of that, they actually adopted. They get it done. They're more efficient and and and well, David, it's been such a pleasure to >> have you on >> the Cube. Thank you for joining me today. >> Thanks, Lisa. >> All right, we'll see you next. Time for David Chang. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Cooper Inspired 19. Thanks for watching.

from around the globe it's thecube with digital coverage of actifio data driven 2020 brought to you by actifio hi and welcome to the cube's coverage of actifio data driven 2020 i'm stu miniman my co-host for this event is dave vellante but joining me to help kick off this discussion is david floyer he is the co-founder and chief technology officer of wikibon of course the research arm of siliconangle media which includes also thecube david great to see you thanks so much for joining us great to see you stu all right so we we've got a really nice lineup of course last year dave and i were in boston with the actifio team they had a really good lineup uh you know analysts thought leaders and of course lots of users you know love to talk to those users uh you and i are quite familiar with actifio uh really the company that that created copy data management as a category and a solution out there so why don't we start there david you know what what's the importance of copy data management you know here in 2020 you know many years after uh when actifio had created it well this year has really uh amplified the importance of copy data management and being able to manage across different locations across different clouds manage the copies manage the the reuse of data in different places um the the the covert has really emphasized the importance for example of putting just backup onto a cloud because it's on many occasions it's not going to be possible to get into your own data centers or if you're sharing a data center so uh automation and uh use of clouds multiple clouds has really driven uh i've become of a supreme importance uh since covert had started and and that's how it's going to be from here on in that's not going to change yeah david absolutely i mean we said for many years when you you know adopt cloud you know i still need to think about my data protection i need to think about security uh those aren't just covered uh because i have you know lovely object storage or it you know spreads things out amongst the different cloud regions um and even this year's you brought up covid uh we've been having so many conversations with with companies uh in many cases they're accelerating or new groups are diving in and therefore we need to make sure that they take the proper control precautions so you know my my disaster recover me my backup is so important uh maybe flush out a little bit for us if you would you know cloud we've been looking at uh that you know hybrid and multi-cloud architectures how people should be building it and of course data the critical component uh that we look at there what what should people be looking at well absolutely if you're going to have a multi-cloud strategy you uh you have to there are several things which are really important you have to be able to operate across each cloud natively in the cloud it's not it's not good enough to uh just be an appendage if you like um so and equally important is that you have to make sure that you're taking advantage of the characteristics of the cloud in particular object storage backup has always gone to object storage but object storage itself is not that fantastic if you're trying to just recover something from a from a lot of different objects unless you put an architecture around that unless you make it such that you can uh take all the workloads and be able to address them in the cloud itself and uh in in particular what's very interesting is there are two fundamental philosophies of moving to the cloud one of which is that you migrate everything you you convert all of your databases to a database that's operating in the cloud that you go to um and the other one is to say well that type of lift and shift is not good enough what you want to be able to do is be able to use the same databases the same applications that you're using at the moment avoid that enormous expensive cost of moving everything and then be able to operate on those databases using the cloud principles the cloud object store and have the same level of performance yeah absolutely david i know i'm looking forward to uh you know dave's got uh you know ash the ceo of actifio uh on today tomorrow uh i'll be talking to david chang who's the co-founder uh also onto the product there to really understand you know how is activio building an architecture that meets what you were just talking about uh and david you know things i i've heard you talking about for many years you know uh migrations obviously are something that anybody in it dreads uh i i used to say in the storage world uh it you know upgrade came with that four-letter word it was migration because you you had to do that and you know databases of critical importance um one of the other uh discussions i have is with ibm and ibm has had a long partnership with activio um but they're also they're they're getting involved with that data usage so maybe if you could expound a little bit you know how is it just you know the early days copy data management i looked at it it was a you know financial savings it was okay hey we've got way too many copies out there how can we enable them to be used better and not have you know just lots and lots of big capacity that the the storage vendors uh as it was you know hard disk and then flash converting there so you know how are we actually unlocking the value of data in today's world well there are two aspects of that one of which is you want the the original data wherever possible you uh you you want to have be able to access that data as quickly as possible so if you have for example a system of record and you want to be able to access that system of record uh it may be one day you want to be able to bring it right to one day before the day before not have a week waiting for it coffee management is essential to be able to access that data and the same data for everybody and know that and know from a compliance point of view you have the right data so that's the first stage but then from a development point of view you want to have the flexibility of using real-time data whenever you can so you want to be able to access any data you want from anywhere and know that it's the correct data and and move your business processes from asynchronous business processes to as synchronous as you can and you can only do that with automation through uh real-time data management yeah uh absolutely david and it's even it's even more pertinent right now as everyone is you know the discussion is you know work from home is becoming work from anywhere uh so it's it's not just oh hey i can get into the data warehouse uh and know that i have uh you know a low latency connection when i'm sitting in the corporate uh internet now you know developers uh typically are dispersed people need to be able to access it um talk a little bit about uh the data pipeline the discussion we've been hearing from uh you know the cdo events that we've gone to as well as discussions you know how does you know actifio in the industry as a whole streamline that data pipeline that you started talking about yeah that that's absolutely essential uh you you you have to have processes and procedures that identify the data where it's going to go uh and and have essentially a data plane managed data plane which is taking it from where it need where it is to where it needs to go sharing the metadata across that fabric um those are the ways that you build a consistent data pipeline where people know what the provenance of that data is and the less copies that you have and the more single copies of that data a a a copy of record a single version of the truth then the less complicated the systems become and even more the the systems between the systems the the human interaction that's required to to manage that data goes down so it and it makes development so much easier so a data pipeline is absolutely essential and it's part of that data plane and it's part of the overall architecture that has to be there we've lived in silos for so long and getting out of silos is not it's not easy at all and uh you've got to have the right tools to be able to do that yeah uh the the keynote speaker uh that actifio has for the event is gene kim somebody we've had on the cube a few times and excited to have him back on at this event uh what i thought was really interesting david i read his first book uh his first fiction book i should say he's also written many non-fiction books uh the phoenix project was really the go-to book to kind of understand devops i've i've recommended so many friends uh people in the industry his new one the unicorn project is really about software development but what i found really interesting because i i didn't get to read it earlier this year because there was just no travel but made sure i did read it ahead of this event and the lesson that it called out to me was you know moving faster using these modern tools you know breaking through silos was all well and good but the the real turning point for the company was enabling that use of data and as you said that real time not looking historically but be able to react fast so you know not giving away the secrets of the book there but uh you know a retail organization that could trial things could update in real time what the inventory was and having everybody in the company get access to that so the product people the marketing people uh the field people all accessing that single source of truth and that being fed throughout the organization really invigorated and drove uh the the ability for a company to react and move fast which really is the the clarion call for business today so david yeah you know any any final word from you as to you know we've we've been beating that drum for years that you know data data data um is is critically important whether you're taking that specific example if you can take that all of that data and then start updating the pricing according to that data you've suddenly made repricing a dynamic event uh one that's going to respond to the customer and they their characteristics uh good or bad and the availability of those uh availability and the uh and the the pipeline of products if you understand all of that then suddenly your ability to increase revenue by being able to reprice more quickly uh automatically become an amazingly uh effective in terms of revenue increase yeah absolutely i i feel like uh i remember back in the early days of hadoop it was you know how can i make an ad better to increase increase click rate but the promise of unlocking data today is to really understand and customize for that environment so some of it is we can maximize profitability there will be certain clients um which are willing to pay for more premium products and others uh that you need to have that value option but when you understand the data you understand the customer you understand the need for the portfolio of solutions you have data can just be that key enabler all right well hey david floyer thank you so much for helping us kick off our coverage here i want to tell everybody make sure to you know tune in for the rest of it uh dave vellante and myself going through the interviews of course on demand with actifio as well as i'm sorry live with actifio as well as on demand on thecube.net as always for david floyer dave vellante i'm stu miniman thank you for joining us for activio data driven and thank you for watching thecube [Music] you

>> Announcer: From the Silicon ANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's The Cube. Now here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, welcome to this Cube conversation, eliminating barriers to enterprise multi-cloud. Multi-cloud is all the rage, all the buzz, it appears to be here and now David Chang is here, he's the Senior Vice President of Products and Co-Founder of Actifio and AppIQ, welcome back to The Cube, good to see you again. >> It's a pleasure to be here, thank you very much. >> You are very welcome, so eight years ago, you guys started this journey, the cloud was kind of new a little experimental, maybe put some stuff in the cloud and see what happens and then boom, all of a sudden it is become mainstream, your thoughts. >> Yeah it's been quite of a journey, I think when we initially started, we were focused around, all about making enterprise as efficient as possible, right. In the old traditional enterprise IT model, that resulted in net savings in terms of reduction to hardware, software, and so on and so forth. But in the cloud, now you're in a completely brand new category in terms of you're being charged on a per use basis. So all the technology we build out over the years just has a direct correlation to this new model of consumption that the cloud is enabling everybody to do. >> So if you think about when you started, platforms were really all mostly on prim, the definition of those platforms has really changed, it's sort of shifted from whether it's a server manufacturer or a storage type or maybe a networking type to the big cloud players, Amazon, Google, Microsoft Azure, Oracle's got a cloud, IBM's got a cloud, you see the China clouds emerge. How were you able, well first of all is that sort of an accurate view? That you guys had this sort of platform agnostic approach to your business and that platform has shifted. >> No that's absolutely true, I think we kind of walked into this by accident, because of some of the architectural advantages we kind of built into our infrastructure from the beginning. But, over the last eight years or so, our customer initially asked us how could we, Actifio, help them to enable them to go from a traditional IT to a private cloud type implementation. So we had a lot of traction in terms of the MSP's and private cloud implementations and that's where I would say four, five years ago, even now I would say we had a lot of traction and a lot of customers that came to Actifio for us to help them in that endeavor. But within the last four or five years we definitely see an acceleration of extending that infrastructure as a service platform from on-premise traditional IT to private cloud infrastructure now into the public cloud. So all the capability we kind of built, really applied very nicely to this new platform agnostic model regardless of where you want to go. >> Can we dig into that capability a little bit? What is it about your architecture, kind of your secret sauce, that makes you multi-lingual and maybe in this case, allows you to go from a world that is largely on prim, or managed hosted services, to one that's massive public cloud scale? >> If you think about it, the only thing that's constant as you move your application from IT, to private cloud, to public cloud, is the application, right. So from the beginning we had this very tight application focus, everything we do is from an application perspective. That really enabled us to play nicely, in terms of these platform shifts, from these one location to another, and fundamentally decouple the application and its data from the infrastructure. So now this normalization of this infrastructure really enabled our customer to make that switch very easily. >> So talk more about that, how do you do that, is it software code, is it architecture, give us some understanding. >> I think it's the approach that we take in terms of supporting of a lot of these data management and copy data functions. And it's really looking at the application data set as the entity that we want to focus on. And focusing on enabling the application as the entity that we add value. So what I mean by that is, if you look at a traditional Oracle database, say if you want to move that from a traditional, let's say an AIX type of environment into a Linux environment for your private infrastructure, so we really fundamentally decouple that application and enable you to very quickly migrate that information from that AIX infrastructure into a Linux environment. Then once that's done, our capability in terms, it's all software if you really, really enable us to kind of have a very efficient incremental tap to that database, and then move that information incrementally into the cloud. And once you're into the cloud, you can now make multiple virtual copies if you will, all consuming sort of the same amount of resources. So you have a drastic reduction in the capacity needed to do that. >> So it's your ability to essentially jailbreak the data from the siloed infrastructure, is that right? >> That's right, and I think four, five years ago we realized that cloud, the public cloud would be an infrastructure that we need to support in depth. So the engineering group has been looking at, for an application consumed cloud natively you have to understand a lot of new technology and new terminologies and new capability. Things like object storage, for example, is not something that a traditional application can consume readily, if you will, without going back and rewriting a lot of those applications. With Actifio, we enable our customers to not having to go back and retro-fit and rewrite these applications but be able to consume these new cloud technologies natively, so they can reap the value immediately versus having to go back and retro-fit their applications. >> One of the practitioners that we had on, of course very recently, Jake Burns was saying that even in AWS, the block storage really isn't kind of enterprise ready, friendly. I want to ask you a question about, if you think about the on-prim, you know block storage players that you guys eight years ago understood that you had to be compatible with, I'll use that term. Whether it was EMC, or Netapp, or IBM, or HP or whatever it was, were those block storage sort of interfaces, the entries and the exits all very similar and is it harder in the cloud or is it actually easier in the cloud, 'cause it's all sort of the API driven economy? I wonder if you could give us some insight there? >> I would say the foundation layer is much easier on the cloud. So as Jake was mentioning before, you don't have to order the hardware, hardware gets here, so the agility of this picture improves drastically when you move to the cloud. However, some of the cons of that, is a lot of the advanced features that you used to get on premise with these enterprise infrastructures, are no longer available on the public infrastructure. So in many ways, many of our customers, as they move into the cloud, a lot of the IT operational staff have to deal with a reduction in terms of capabilities or availability or time it takes to make that data, in terms of cloning and so on and so forth. So that's sort of, I think the challenges many of our customer are facing and that's where Actifio can help you with. >> Can we talk about this notion of rewriting apps, because in IT, if you have to rewrite the app, you got to freeze the code, if you freeze the code then you're enduring all this risk, you know if you have to freeze the code for N number of months, that's N number of months you can't keep up with your competition. So am I correct that your customers are not having to rewrite their apps, because of your ability to isolate sort of the data model? >> That's right >> And maybe you could talk about that a little bit and what impact it's had on your customer base. >> Yeah as you know, in the cloud, the economic is per use, and in the cloud the type of capacity you have to deal with tend to be in multiple categories, you have the EBS of the world which is relatively expensive compared with the object storage. So if you take just lift and ship, you enterprise the application model into the cloud where a lot, I would say most of your application data, is stored EBS, then you're not really fully utilizing the economics of the cloud. So how do you make effective use, in terms of minimizing the elastic block service on Amazon, versus the object storage capability that you have available. That is I think a difficult topic for a lot of the traditional enterprise applications doing the lift and ship, where you have to essentially go back and rewrite those applications to take advantage of the cloud native capability for you to really drive that availability and cost to the new level that you were expecting. >> So I've been in this storage business a long time, and I'm somewhat embarrassed to ask this question, but I have an architect here, a technologist, I'll ask you. When you think about block storage in the cloud, an EBS in particular, that was not Amazon's first announcement, did they announce that because they realized that they need to accommodate, you know block storage, to get more people from the enterprise or is there something specific about block storage that is here to stay forever? Another way of asking that is, can we run these applications on object storage? Is that the direction, thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I think it's going to be a hybrid model, right. So what Actifio really enables our customer to do, is not really running your production on object storage, but a lot of the secondary sort of data cloning, data analytics, and DR type of use case, you can shift, I would say, reduce your usage of EBS block storage to object storage. So we think that's the low hanging fruit that enable our customer to move to the cloud faster, cheaper, and with better capabilities. I think longer term as our customers start to develop applications that's native to the cloud, it's probably more efficient for you to consume some of these cloud native capability directly, but we're talking about a lot of time and resources that not all organizations will be able to afford to a high percentage of their applications moving to-- >> So new applications might be rewritten to take advantage of object storage and what about things like performance or latency and recovery et cetera, do you see the block storage world being able to get there? To actually compete effectively with, or the object to compete effectively with block or is that? >> We believe so, because if you look at object storage it's now proven over the last, I would say six, seven years, it's the most scalable storage that's available to the industry period, right. That scalability also enable you to reduce any hot spots that you may have from a performance perspective. So what Actifio's engineering group has done, is really leverage that capability, the ability for you to fully utilize the full bandwidth of that entire object storage, and having multi-parallel streams of access into that. So the way we look at object storage, it's just another access protocol, if you think about it, you have block storage, you have iSCSI, Fibre Channel, you have NFS access protocols. Object is simply another protocol that enables you to have persistent storage. And what Actifio has done is really leverage the performance and scalability characteristic of this object storage to have our customers, in terms of realizing value from day one. >> Is it true to your DNA, you don't really care whatever the customer chooses you're going to support it? If the whole world goes object, great no problem. If the world stays mixed. >> I think for the foreseeable future, it's going to be a mix environment, but as Jake was mentioning before, it's all about optimization in terms of capability and cost. And object storage is a key piece of that equation we can really enable you to kind of tweak that knob to exactly what you're looking for. >> When customers make a move to the cloud, it's a migration, any migration is risky, how does Actifio generally, and your product specifically, reduce that risk? >> I think it's all about keeping it simple, right, so the ability for you to kind of lift and ship your applications without having to go back to rewrite, that's a huge value proposition, or a huge reduction in terms of risk that you can achieve in your environment. The ability for us, for Actifio to tap your into your enterprise IT existing production environment without a lot of sort of dangerous or latency effect, is a huge value we can bring to the table as well. Because Actifio from day one, is designed to be very efficient in terms of tapping your applications data while it's running, while it's in production, right. So the ability for us to incrementally do that and move that information into the cloud effectively for you to do that migration process, can drastically reduce your risk if you will. >> Let's talk about cost a little bit. We heard a lot from Jake about cost, in theory anyway, you guys can help optimize, not in theory, in actuality, you can help me get rid of stuff I always say. Talk about the optimization angle, how have your customers taken advantage of that, we heard from Jake, you have some other favorite examples you can maybe share with us David? >> Yeah so I think one of the key things, instead of doing, for example, if on a traditional IT perspective you want to keep data for a long time, you typically employ deduplication technology, right. Dedup technology typically works really well if you own the entire asset and you have sort of big servers, big number of cores, big memories, and so on and so forth. When you actually do a lift and ship of that technology, into the cloud environment, all of a sudden your price tag, in terms of what you charge on a monthly basis goes through the roof, because now every CPU cycle and every IO you generate to do that deduplication, now becomes very expensive, you're essentially charged on a per use basis into the cloud. So what Actifio has done, is really enable our customers to eliminate a lot of the cost in terms in doing that, in doing a lift and ship into the cloud, by enabling you to use leverage object storage directly without having to employ these expensive deduplication technology there as well, so that's one example. >> I want to talk about digital transformation a little bit, it's the buzzword, we go to a lot of conferences and every time you hear, oh digital transformation, Uber, Airbnb, you know blah, blah, blah. We tend to have these detailed storage discussions and product discussions, and it seems like it's really far away, but I want to run something by you and see if you can respond. Digital means data, right, if it's not data it's not digital, you guys are in the data business, we'd observe that the big digital players, the big internet players, their data driven, your conference upcoming, we're going to talk about that, it's called data driven, what does that mean? It means that data is at the heart of your enterprise and humans, human expertise is sort of surrounds that, but it's foundational is the data, most companies in the enterprise, human expertise is at the center and data's in silos and bolted on all over the place. You guys in a big way are a silo buster, you allow me to have sort of a comprehensive view of my virtual data store. Are you seeing that in your customer base, can you help enterprises who are scared to death that they're going to get disrupted, cross that digital divide and close the gap with the disrupters? >> Absolutely, so Actifio does not do AI for example, but what we really do is unlock the data you already have in your environment so it's absolutely free to be, so you can run analytics, you can run analytics on demand whether it's on your primary IT infrastructure, in a private data center, or in a public cloud. So by, if you think about it some of the biggest challenge our customer have in terms of going digital, is how do I fundamentally uncouple or decouple my data from the infrastructure that I'm running, right. Once I have that detachment of that data from my underlying infrastructure, now I'm free to move that information to anywhere I want, in terms of make use of that information, or to run analytics, to actually run a lot of the advanced algorithms that you could monetize that information for your business. So that acceleration or the agility we provide and the reduction of the number of copies for all these use cases, is at the center of what we can do for you for that use case. >> Or even move code, bring code to that data wherever it lives, because I may not want to move petabyte of data around, is that right? >> That's right. >> Okay, so data driven, so you can't be data driven unless you put data at the core of your enterprise, that's part of what you guys do. The conference is June 5th and 6th, it's called Data Driven, it's at the Fontainebleau in Miami. We did a Cube gig there a couple years ago, it was fantastic. Tell us about the event and what people can expect. >> We're very excited about the event, it's a really an industry wide event, we have many customers or many partners within the community coming in and sharing with the entire sort of industry around some of the best practices in terms of monetization of the data you already have, some of the best practices in terms of making the data self-service, some of the best practice in terms of leveraging sort of the best economics in terms of the private or public cloud to make effective use of that information. So we're very excited and like to see everyone there in June. >> Great David thanks so much for coming back in The Cube, really a pleasure, congratulations on all the success and good luck in June. >> Thank you very much, pleasure to be here. >> Thanks for watching everybody, this is Dave Vellante, from our East Coast studios, we'll see you next time.