(upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's day one coverage of Cloud Native SecurityCon 2023. This has been a great conversation that we've been able to be a part of today. Lisa Martin with John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Dave and John, I want to get your take on the conversations that we had today, starting with the keynote that we were able to see. What are your thoughts? We talked a lot about technology. We also talked a lot about people and culture. John, starting with you, what's the story here with this inaugural event? >> Well, first of all, there's two major threads. One is the breakout of a new event from CloudNativeCon/KubeCon, which is a very successful community and events that they do international and in North America. And that's not stopping. So that's going to be continuing to go great. This event is a breakout with an extreme focus on security and all things security around that ecosystem. And with extensions into the Linux Foundation. We heard Brian Behlendorf was on there from the Linux Foundation. So he was involved in Hyperledger. So not just Cloud Native, all things containers, Kubernetes, all things Linux Foundation as an open source. So, little bit more of a focus. So I like that piece of it. The other big thread on this story is what Dave and Yves were talking about on our panel we had earlier, which was the business model of security is real and that is absolutely happening. It's impacting business today. So you got this, let's build as fast as possible, let's retool, let's replatform, refactor and then the reality of the business imperative. To me, those are the two big high-order bits that are going on and that's the reality of this current situation. >> Dave, what are your top takeaways from today's day one inaugural coverage? >> Yeah, I would add a third leg of the stool to what John said and that's what we were talking about several times today about the security is a do-over. The Pat Gelsinger quote, from what was that, John, 2011, 2012? And that's right around the time that the cloud was hitting this steep part of the S-curve and do-over really has meant in looking back, leveraging cloud native tooling, and cloud native technologies, which are different than traditional security approaches because it has to take into account the unique characteristics of the cloud whether that's dynamic resource allocation, unlimited resources, microservices, containers. And while that has helped solve some problems it also brings new challenges. All these cloud native tools, securing this decentralized infrastructure that people are dealing with and really trying to relearn the security culture. And that's kind of where we are today. >> I think the other thing too that I had Dave is that was we get other guests on with a diverse opinion around foundational models with AI and machine learning. You're going to see a lot more things come in to accelerate the scale and automation piece of it. It is one thing that CloudNativeCon and KubeCon has shown us what the growth of cloud computing is is that containers Kubernetes and these new services are powering scale. And scale you're going to need to have automation and machine learning and AI will be a big part of that. So you start to see the new formation of stacks emerging. So foundational stacks is the machine learning and data apps are coming out. It's going to start to see more apps coming. So I think there's going to be so many new applications and services are going to emerge, and if you don't get your act together on the infrastructure side those apps will not be fully baked. >> And obviously that's a huge risk. Sorry, Dave, go ahead. >> No, that's okay. So there has to be hardware somewhere. You can't get away with no hardware. But increasingly the security architecture like everything else is, is software-defined and makes it a lot more flexible. And to the extent that practitioners and organizations can consolidate this myriad of tools that they have, that means they're going to have less trouble learning new skills, they're going to be able to spend more time focused and become more proficient on the tooling that is being applied. And you're seeing the same thing on the vendor side. You're seeing some of these large vendors, Palo Alto, certainly CrowdStrike and fundamental to their strategy is to pick off more and more and more of these areas in security and begin to consolidate them. And right now, that's a big theme amongst organizations. We know from the survey data that consolidating redundant vendors is the number one cost saving priority today. Along with, at a distant second, optimizing cloud costs, but consolidating redundant vendors there's nowhere where that's more prominent than in security. >> Dave, talk a little bit about that, you mentioned the practitioners and obviously this event bottoms up focused on the practitioners. It seems like they're really in the driver's seat now. With this being the inaugural Cloud Native SecurityCon, first time it's been pulled out of an elevated out of KubeCon as a focus, do you think this is about time that the practitioners are in the driver's seat? >> Well, they're certainly, I mean, we hear about all the tech layoffs. You're not laying off your top security pros and if you are, they're getting picked up very quickly. So I think from that standpoint, anybody who has deep security expertise is in the driver's seat. The problem is that driver's seat is pretty hairy and you got to have the stomach for it. I mean, these are technical heroes, if you will, on the front lines, literally saving the world from criminals and nation-states. And so yes, I think Lisa they have been in the driver's seat for a while, but it it takes a unique person to drive at those speeds. >> I mean, the thing too is that the cloud native world that we are living in comes from cloud computing. And if you look at this, what is a practitioner? There's multiple stakeholders that are being impacted and are vulnerable in the security front at many levels. You have application developers, you got IT market, you got security, infrastructure, and network and whatever. So all that old to new is happening. So if you look at IT, that market is massive. That's still not transformed yet to cloud. So you have companies out there literally fully exposed to ransomware. IT teams that are having practices that are antiquated and outdated. So security patching, I mean the blocking and tackling of the old securities, it's hard to even support that old environment. So in this transition from IT to cloud is changing everything. And so practitioners are impacted from the devs and the ones that get there faster and adopt the ways to make their business better, whether you call it modern technology and architectures, will be alive and hopefully thriving. So that's the challenge. And I think this security focus hits at the heart of the reality of business because like I said, they're under threats. >> I wanted to pick up too on, I thought Brian Behlendorf, he did a forward looking what could become the next problem that we really haven't addressed. He talked about generative AI, automating spearphishing and he flat out said the (indistinct) is not fixed. And so identity access management, again, a lot of different toolings. There's Microsoft, there's Okta, there's dozens of companies with different identity platforms that practitioners have to deal with. And then what he called free riders. So these are folks that go into the repos. They're open source repos, and they find vulnerabilities that developers aren't hopping on quickly. It's like, you remember Patch Tuesday. We still have Patch Tuesday. That meant Hacker Wednesday. It's kind of the same theme there going into these repos and finding areas where the practitioners, the developers aren't responding quickly enough. They just don't necessarily have the resources. And then regulations, public policy being out of alignment with what's really needed, saying, "Oh, you can't ship that fix outside of Germany." Or I'm just making this up, but outside of this region because of a law. And you could be as a developer personally liable for it. So again, while these practitioners are in the driver's seat, it's a hairy place to be. >> Dave, we didn't get the word supercloud in much on this event, did we? >> Well, I'm glad you brought that up because I think security is the big single, biggest challenge for supercloud, securing the supercloud with all the diversity of tooling across clouds and I think you brought something up in the first supercloud, John. You said, "Look, ultimately the cloud, the hyperscalers have to lean in. They are going to be the enablers of supercloud. They already are from an infrastructure standpoint, but they can solve this problem by working together. And I think there needs to be more industry collaboration. >> And I think the point there is that with security the trend will be, in my opinion, you'll see security being reborn in the cloud, around zero trust as structure, and move from an on-premise paradigm to fully cloud native. And you're seeing that in the network side, Dave, where people are going to each cloud and building stacks inside the clouds, hyperscaler clouds that are completely compatible end-to-end with on-premises. Not trying to force the cloud to be working with on-prem. They're completely refactoring as cloud native first. And again, that's developer first, that's data first, that's security first. So to me that's the tell sign. To me is if when you see that, that's good. >> And Lisa, I think the cultural conversation that you've brought into these discussions is super important because I've said many times, bad user behavior is going to trump good security every time. So that idea that the entire organization is responsible for security. You hear that all the time. Well, what does that mean? It doesn't mean I have to be a security expert, it just means I have to be smart. How many people actually use a VPN? >> So I think one of the things that I'm seeing with the cultural change is face-to-face problem solving is one, having remote teams is another. The skillset is big. And I think the culture of having these teams, Dave mentioned something about intramural sports, having the best people on the teams, from putting captains on the jersey of security folks is going to happen. I think you're going to see a lot more of that going on because there's so many areas to work on. You're going to start to see security embedded in all processes. >> Well, it needs to be and that level of shared responsibility is not trivial. That's across the organization. But they're also begs the question of the people problem. People are one of the biggest challenges with respect to security. Everyone has to be on board with this. It has to be coming from the top down, but also the bottom up at the same time. It's challenging to coordinate. >> Well, the training thing I think is going to solve itself in good time. And I think in the fullness of time, if I had to predict, you're going to see managed services being a big driver on the front end, and then as companies realize where their IP will be you'll see those managed service either be a core competency of their business and then still leverage. So I'm a big believer in managed services. So you're seeing Kubernetes, for instance, a lot of managed services. You'll start to see more, get the ball going, get that rolling, then build. So Dave mentioned bottoms up, middle out, that's how transformation happens. So I think managed services will win from here, but ultimately the business model stuff is so critical. >> I'm glad you brought up managed services and I want to add to that managed security service providers, because I saw a stat last year, 50% of organizations in the US don't even have a security operations team. So managed security service providers MSSPs are going to fill the gap, especially for small and midsize companies and for those larger companies that just need to augment and compliment their existing staff. And so those practitioners that we've been talking about, those really hardcore pros, they're going to go into these companies, some large, the big four, all have them. Smaller companies like Arctic Wolf are going to, I think, really play a key role in this decade. >> I want to get your opinion Dave on what you're hoping to see from this event as we've talked about the first inaugural standalone big focus here on security as a standalone. Obviously, it's a huge challenge. What are you hoping for this event to get groundswell from the community? What are you hoping to hear and see as we wrap up day one and go into day two? >> I always say events like this they're about educating, aspiring to action. And so the practitioners that are at this event I think, I used to say they're the technical heroes. So we know there's going to be another Log4j or a another SolarWinds. It's coming. And my hope is that when that happens, it's not an if, it's a when, that the industry, these practitioners are able to respond in a way that's safe and fast and agile and they're able to keep us protected, number one and number two, that they can actually figure out what happened in the long tail of still trying to clean it up is compressed. That's my hope or maybe it's a dream. >> I think day two tomorrow you're going to hear more supply chain, security. You're going to start to see them focus on sessions that target areas if within the CNCF KubeCon + CloudNativeCon area that need support around containers, clusters, around Kubernetes cluster. You're going to start to see them laser focus on cleaning up the house, if you will, if you can call it cleaning up or fixing what needs to get fixed or solved what needs to get solved on the cloud native front. That's going to be urgent. And again, supply chain software as Dave mentioned, free riders too, just using open source. So I think you'll see open source continue to grow, but there'll be an emphasis on verification and certification. And Docker has done a great job with that. You've seen what they've done with their business model over hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue from a pivot. Catch a few years earlier because they verify. So I think we're going to be in this verification blue check mark of code era, of code and software. Super important bill of materials. They call SBOMs, software bill of materials. People want to know what's in their software and that's going to be, again, another opportunity for machine learning and other things. So I'm optimistic that this is going to be a good focus. >> Good. I like that. I think that's one of the things thematically that we've heard today is optimism about what this community can generate in terms of today's point. The next Log4j is coming. We know it's not if, it's when, and all organizations need to be ready to Dave's point to act quickly with agility to dial down and not become the next headline. Nobody wants to be that. Guys, it's been fun working with you on this day one event. Looking forward to day two. Lisa Martin for Dave Vellante and John Furrier. You're watching theCUBE's day one coverage of Cloud Native SecurityCon '23. We'll see you tomorrow. (upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> This past week we saw two of the Big 3 cloud providers present the latest update on their respective cloud visions, their business progress, their announcements and innovations. The content at these events had many overlapping themes, including modern cloud infrastructure at global scale, applying advanced machine intelligence, AKA AI, end-to-end data platforms, collaboration software. They talked a lot about the future of work automation. And they gave us a little taste, each company of the Metaverse Web 3.0 and much more. Despite these striking similarities, the differences between these two cloud platforms and that of AWS remains significant. With Microsoft leveraging its massive application software footprint to dominate virtually all markets and Google doing everything in its power to keep up with the frenetic pace of today's cloud innovation, which was set into motion a decade and a half ago by AWS. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we unpack the immense amount of content presented by the CEOs of Microsoft and Google Cloud at Microsoft Ignite and Google Cloud Next. We'll also quantify with ETR survey data the relative position of these two cloud giants in four key sectors: cloud IaaS, BI analytics, data platforms and collaboration software. Now one thing was clear this past week, hybrid events are the thing. Google Cloud Next took place live over a 24-hour period in six cities around the world, with the main gathering in New York City. Microsoft Ignite, which normally is attended by 30,000 people, had a smaller event in Seattle, in person with a virtual audience around the world. AWS re:Invent, of course, is much different. Yes, there's a virtual component at re:Invent, but it's all about a big live audience gathering the week after Thanksgiving, in the first week of December in Las Vegas. Regardless, Satya Nadella keynote address was prerecorded. It was highly produced and substantive. It was visionary, energetic with a strong message that Azure was a platform to allow customers to build their digital businesses. Doing more with less, which was a key theme of his. Nadella covered a lot of ground, starting with infrastructure from the compute, highlighting a collaboration with Arm-based, Ampere processors. New block storage, 60 regions, 175,000 miles of fiber cables around the world. He presented a meaningful multi-cloud message with Azure Arc to support on-prem and edge workloads, as well as of course the public cloud. And talked about confidential computing at the infrastructure level, a theme we hear from all cloud vendors. He then went deeper into the end-to-end data platform that Microsoft is building from the core data stores to analytics, to governance and the myriad tooling Microsoft offers. AI was next with a big focus on automation, AI, training models. He showed demos of machines coding and fixing code and machines automatically creating designs for creative workers and how Power Automate, Microsoft's RPA tooling, would combine with Microsoft Syntex to understand documents and provide standard ways for organizations to communicate with those documents. There was of course a big focus on Azure as developer cloud platform with GitHub Copilot as a linchpin using AI to assist coders in low-code and no-code innovations that are coming down the pipe. And another giant theme was a workforce transformation and how Microsoft is using its heritage and collaboration and productivity software to move beyond what Nadella called productivity paranoia, i.e., are remote workers doing their jobs? In a world where collaboration is built into intelligent workflows, and he even showed a glimpse of the future with AI-powered avatars and partnerships with Meta and Cisco with Teams of all firms. And finally, security with a bevy of tools from identity, endpoint, governance, et cetera, stressing a suite of tools from a single provider, i.e., Microsoft. So a couple points here. One, Microsoft is following in the footsteps of AWS with silicon advancements and didn't really emphasize that trend much except for the Ampere announcement. But it's building out cloud infrastructure at a massive scale, there is no debate about that. Its plan on data is to try and provide a somewhat more abstracted and simplified solutions, which differs a little bit from AWS's approach of the right database tool, for example, for the right job. Microsoft's automation play appears to provide simple individual productivity tools, kind of a ground up approach and make it really easy for users to drive these bottoms up initiatives. We heard from UiPath that forward five last month, a little bit of a different approach of horizontal automation, end-to-end across platforms. So quite a different play there. Microsoft's angle on workforce transformation is visionary and will continue to solidify in our view its dominant position with Teams and Microsoft 365, and it will drive cloud infrastructure consumption by default. On security as well as a cloud player, it has to have world-class security, and Azure does. There's not a lot of debate about that, but the knock on Microsoft is Patch Tuesday becomes Hack Wednesday because Microsoft releases so many patches, it's got so much Swiss cheese in its legacy estate and patching frequently, it becomes a roadmap and a trigger for hackers. Hey, patch Tuesday, these are all the exploits that you can go after so you can act before the patches are implemented. And so it's really become a problem for users. As well Microsoft is competing with many of the best-of-breed platforms like CrowdStrike and Okta, which have market momentum and appear to be more attractive horizontal plays for customers outside of just the Microsoft cloud. But again, it's Microsoft. They make it easy and very inexpensive to adopt. Now, despite the outstanding presentation by Satya Nadella, there are a couple of statements that should raise eyebrows. Here are two of them. First, as he said, Azure is the only cloud that supports all organizations and all workloads from enterprises to startups, to highly regulated industries. I had a conversation with Sarbjeet Johal about this, to make sure I wasn't just missing something and we were both surprised, somewhat, by this claim. I mean most certainly AWS supports more certifications for example, and we would think it has a reasonable case to dispute that claim. And the other statement, Nadella made, Azure is the only cloud provider enabling highly regulated industries to bring their most sensitive applications to the cloud. Now, reasonable people can debate whether AWS is there yet, but very clearly Oracle and IBM would have something to say about that statement. Now maybe it's not just, would say, "Oh, they're not real clouds, you know, they're just going to hosting in the cloud if you will." But still, when it comes to mission-critical applications, you would think Oracle is really the the leader there. Oh, and Satya also mentioned the claim that the Edge browser, the Microsoft Edge browser, no questions asked, he said, is the best browser for business. And we could see some people having some questions about that. Like isn't Edge based on Chrome? Anyway, so we just had to question these statements and challenge Microsoft to defend them because to us it's a little bit of BS and makes one wonder what else in such as awesome keynote and it was awesome, it was hyperbole. Okay, moving on to Google Cloud Next. The keynote started with Sundar Pichai doing a virtual session, he was remote, stressing the importance of Google Cloud. He mentioned that Google Cloud from its Q2 earnings was on a $25-billion annual run rate. What he didn't mention is that it's also on a 3.6 billion annual operating loss run rate based on its first half performance. Just saying. And we'll dig into that issue a little bit more later in this episode. He also stressed that the investments that Google has made to support its core business and search, like its global network of 22 subsea cables to support things like, YouTube video, great performance obviously that we all rely on, those innovations there. Innovations in BigQuery to support its search business and its threat analysis that it's always had and its AI, it's always been an AI-first company, he's stressed, that they're all leveraged by the Google Cloud Platform, GCP. This is all true by the way. Google has absolutely awesome tech and the talk, as well as his talk, Pichai, but also Kurian's was forward thinking and laid out a vision of the future. But it didn't address in our view, and I talked to Sarbjeet Johal about this as well, today's challenges to the degree that Microsoft did and we expect AWS will at re:Invent this year, it was more out there, more forward thinking, what's possible in the future, somewhat less about today's problem, so I think it's resonates less with today's enterprise players. Thomas Kurian then took over from Sundar Pichai and did a really good job of highlighting customers, and I think he has to, right? He has to say, "Look, we are in this game. We have customers, 9 out of the top 10 media firms use Google Cloud. 8 out of the top 10 manufacturers. 9 out of the top 10 retailers. Same for telecom, same for healthcare. 8 out of the top 10 retail banks." He and Sundar specifically referenced a number of companies, customers, including Avery Dennison, Groupe Renault, H&M, John Hopkins, Prudential, Minna Bank out of Japan, ANZ bank and many, many others during the session. So you know, they had some proof points and you got to give 'em props for that. Now like Microsoft, Google talked about infrastructure, they referenced training processors and regions and compute optionality and storage and how new workloads were emerging, particularly data-driven workloads in AI that required new infrastructure. He explicitly highlighted partnerships within Nvidia and Intel. I didn't see anything on Arm, which somewhat surprised me 'cause I believe Google's working on that or at least has come following in AWS's suit if you will, but maybe that's why they're not mentioning it or maybe I got to do more research there, but let's park that for a minute. But again, as we've extensively discussed in Breaking Analysis in our view when it comes to compute, AWS via its Annapurna acquisition is well ahead of the pack in this area. Arm is making its way into the enterprise, but all three companies are heavily investing in infrastructure, which is great news for customers and the ecosystem. We'll come back to that. Data and AI go hand in hand, and there was no shortage of data talk. Google didn't mention Snowflake or Databricks specifically, but it did mention, by the way, it mentioned Mongo a couple of times, but it did mention Google's, quote, Open Data cloud. Now maybe Google has used that term before, but Snowflake has been marketing the data cloud concept for a couple of years now. So that struck as a shot across the bow to one of its partners and obviously competitor, Snowflake. At BigQuery is a main centerpiece of Google's data strategy. Kurian talked about how they can take any data from any source in any format from any cloud provider with BigQuery Omni and aggregate and understand it. And with the support of Apache Iceberg and Delta and Hudi coming in the future and its open Data Cloud Alliance, they talked a lot about that. So without specifically mentioning Snowflake or Databricks, Kurian co-opted a lot of messaging from these two players, such as life and tech. Kurian also talked about Google Workspace and how it's now at 8 million users up from 6 million just two years ago. There's a lot of discussion on developer optionality and several details on tools supported and the open mantra of Google. And finally on security, Google brought out Kevin Mandian, he's a CUBE alum, extremely impressive individual who's CEO of Mandiant, a leading security service provider and consultancy that Google recently acquired for around 5.3 billion. They talked about moving from a shared responsibility model to a shared fate model, which is again, it's kind of a shot across AWS's bow, kind of shared responsibility model. It's unclear that Google will pay the same penalty if a customer doesn't live up to its portion of the shared responsibility, but we can probably assume that the customer is still going to bear the brunt of the pain, nonetheless. Mandiant is really interesting because it's a services play and Google has stated that it is not a services company, it's going to give partners in the channel plenty of room to play. So we'll see what it does with Mandiant. But Mandiant is a very strong enterprise capability and in the single most important area security. So interesting acquisition by Google. Now as well, unlike Microsoft, Google is not competing with security leaders like Okta and CrowdStrike. Rather, it's partnering aggressively with those firms and prominently putting them forth. All right. Let's get into the ETR survey data and see how Microsoft and Google are positioned in four key markets that we've mentioned before, IaaS, BI analytics, database data platforms and collaboration software. First, let's look at the IaaS cloud. ETR is just about to release its October survey, so I cannot share the that data yet. I can only show July data, but we're going to give you some directional hints throughout this conversation. This chart shows net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and overlap or presence in the data, i.e., how pervasive the platform is. That's on the horizontal axis. And we've inserted the Wikibon estimates of IaaS revenue for the companies, the Big 3. Actually the Big 4, we included Alibaba. So a couple of points in this somewhat busy data chart. First, Microsoft and AWS as always are dominant on both axes. The red dotted line there at 40% on the vertical axis. That represents a highly elevated spending velocity and all of the Big 3 are above the line. Now at the same time, GCP is well behind the two leaders on the horizontal axis and you can see that in the table insert as well in our revenue estimates. Now why is Azure bigger in the ETR survey when AWS is larger according to the Wikibon revenue estimates? And the answer is because Microsoft with products like 365 and Teams will often be considered by respondents in the survey as cloud by customers, so they fit into that ETR category. But in the insert data we're stripping out applications and SaaS from Microsoft and Google and we're only isolating on IaaS. The other point is when you take a look at the early October returns, you see downward pressure as signified by those dotted arrows on every name. The only exception was Dell, or Dell and IBM, which showing slightly improved momentum. So the survey data generally confirms what we know that AWS and Azure have a massive lead and strong momentum in the marketplace. But the real story is below the line. Unlike Google Cloud, which is on pace to lose well over 3 billion on an operating basis this year, AWS's operating profit is around $20 billion annually. Microsoft's Intelligent Cloud generated more than $30 billion in operating income last fiscal year. Let that sink in for a moment. Now again, that's not to say Google doesn't have traction, it does and Kurian gave some nice proof points and customer examples in his keynote presentation, but the data underscores the lead that Microsoft and AWS have on Google in cloud. And here's a breakdown of ETR's proprietary net score methodology, that vertical axis that we showed you in the previous chart. It asks customers, are you adopting the platform new? That's that lime green. Are you spending 6% or more? That's the forest green. Is you're spending flat? That's the gray. Is you're spending down 6% or worse? That's the pinkest color. Or are you replacing the platform, defecting? That's the bright red. You subtract the reds from the greens and you get a net score. Now one caveat here, which actually is really favorable from Microsoft, the Microsoft data that we're showing here is across the entire Microsoft portfolio. The other point is, this is July data, we'll have an update for you once ETR releases its October results. But we're talking about meaningful samples here, the ends. 620 for AWS over a thousand from Microsoft in more than 450 respondents in the survey for Google. So the real tell is replacements, that bright red. There is virtually no churn for AWS and Microsoft, but Google's churn is 5x, those two in the survey. Now 5% churn is not high, but you'd like to see three things for Google given it's smaller size. One is less churn, two is much, much higher adoption rates in the lime green. Three is a higher percentage of those spending more, the forest green. And four is a lower percentage of those spending less. And none of these conditions really applies here for Google. GCP is still not growing fast enough in our opinion, and doesn't have nearly the traction of the two leaders and that shows up in the survey data. All right, let's look at the next sector, BI analytics. Here we have that same XY dimension. Again, Microsoft dominating the picture. AWS very strong also in both axes. Tableau, very popular and respectable of course acquired by Salesforce on the vertical axis, still looking pretty good there. And again on the horizontal axis, big presence there for Tableau. And Google with Looker and its other platforms is also respectable, but it again, has some work to do. Now notice Streamlit, that's a recent Snowflake acquisition. It's strong in the vertical axis and because of Snowflake's go-to-market (indistinct), it's likely going to move to the right overtime. Grafana is also prominent in the Y axis, but a glimpse at the most recent survey data shows them slightly declining while Looker actually improves a bit. As does Cloudera, which we'll move up slightly. Again, Microsoft just blows you away, doesn't it? All right, now let's get into database and data platform. Same X Y dimensions, but now database and data warehouse. Snowflake as usual takes the top spot on the vertical axis and it is actually keeps moving to the right as well with again, Microsoft and AWS is dominant in the market, as is Oracle on the X axis, albeit it's got less spending velocity, but of course it's the database king. Google is well behind on the X axis but solidly above the 40% line on the vertical axis. Note that virtually all platforms will see pressure in the next survey due to the macro environment. Microsoft might even dip below the 40% line for the first time in a while. Lastly, let's look at the collaboration and productivity software market. This is such an important area for both Microsoft and Google. And just look at Microsoft with 365 and Teams up into the right. I mean just so impressive in ubiquitous. And we've highlighted Google. It's in the pack. It certainly is a nice base with 174 N, which I can tell you that N will rise in the next survey, which is an indication that more people are adopting. But given the investment and the tech behind it and all the AI and Google's resources, you'd really like to see Google in this space above the 40% line, given the importance of this market, of this collaboration area to Google's success and the degree to which they emphasize it in their pitch. And look, this brings up something that we've talked about before on Breaking Analysis. Google doesn't have a tech problem. This is a go-to-market and marketing challenge that Google faces and it's up against two go-to-market champs and Microsoft and AWS. And Google doesn't have the enterprise sales culture. It's trying, it's making progress, but it's like that racehorse that has all the potential in the world, but it's just missing some kind of key ingredient to put it over at the top. It's always coming in third, (chuckles) but we're watching and Google's obviously, making some investments as we shared with earlier. All right. Some final thoughts on what we learned this week and in this research: customers and partners should be thrilled that both Microsoft and Google along with AWS are spending so much money on innovation and building out global platforms. This is a gift to the industry and we should be thankful frankly because it's good for business, it's good for competitiveness and future innovation as a platform that can be built upon. Now we didn't talk much about multi-cloud, we haven't even mentioned supercloud, but both Microsoft and Google have a story that resonates with customers in cross cloud capabilities, unlike AWS at this time. But we never say never when it comes to AWS. They sometimes and oftentimes surprise you. One of the other things that Sarbjeet Johal and John Furrier and I have discussed is that each of the Big 3 is positioning to their respective strengths. AWS is the best IaaS. Microsoft is building out the kind of, quote, we-make-it-easy-for-you cloud, and Google is trying to be the open data cloud with its open-source chops and excellent tech. And that puts added pressure on Snowflake, doesn't it? You know, Thomas Kurian made some comments according to CRN, something to the effect that, we are the only company that can do the data cloud thing across clouds, which again, if I'm being honest is not really accurate. Now I haven't clarified these statements with Google and often things get misquoted, but there's little question that, as AWS has done in the past with Redshift, Google is taking a page out of Snowflake, Databricks as well. A big difference in the Big 3 is that AWS doesn't have this big emphasis on the up-the-stack collaboration software that both Microsoft and Google have, and that for Microsoft and Google will drive captive IaaS consumption. AWS obviously does some of that in database, a lot of that in database, but ISVs that compete with Microsoft and Google should have a greater affinity, one would think, to AWS for competitive reasons. and the same thing could be said in security, we would think because, as I mentioned before, Microsoft competes very directly with CrowdStrike and Okta and others. One of the big thing that Sarbjeet mentioned that I want to call out here, I'd love to have your opinion. AWS specifically, but also Microsoft with Azure have successfully created what Sarbjeet calls brand distance. AWS from the Amazon Retail, and even though AWS all the time talks about Amazon X and Amazon Y is in their product portfolio, but you don't really consider it part of the retail organization 'cause it's not. Azure, same thing, has created its own identity. And it seems that Google still struggles to do that. It's still very highly linked to the sort of core of Google. Now, maybe that's by design, but for enterprise customers, there's still some potential confusion with Google, what's its intentions? How long will they continue to lose money and invest? Are they going to pull the plug like they do on so many other tools? So you know, maybe some rethinking of the marketing there and the positioning. Now we didn't talk much about ecosystem, but it's vital for any cloud player, and Google again has some work to do relative to the leaders. Which brings us to supercloud. The ecosystem and end customers are now in a position this decade to digitally transform. And we're talking here about building out their own clouds, not by putting in and building data centers and installing racks of servers and storage devices, no. Rather to build value on top of the hyperscaler gift that has been presented. And that is a mega trend that we're watching closely in theCUBE community. While there's debate about the supercloud name and so forth, there little question in our minds that the next decade of cloud will not be like the last. All right, we're going to leave it there today. Many thanks to Sarbjeet Johal, and my business partner, John Furrier, for their input to today's episode. Thanks to Alex Myerson who's on production and manages the podcast and Ken Schiffman as well. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight helped get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE, who does some wonderful editing. And check out SiliconANGLE, a lot of coverage on Google Cloud Next and Microsoft Ignite. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcast wherever you listen. Just search Breaking Analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. And you can always get in touch with me via email, david.vellante@siliconangle.com or you can DM me at dvellante or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And please do check out etr.ai, the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for the CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on Breaking Analysis. (gentle music)

[Music] welcome to thecube's coverage of pure accelerate 2021 i'm lisa martin pleased to be welcoming back one of our alumni to the cube prakash darjee is here the vp and gm of the digital experience business unit at pure storage prakash it's great to have you back on the program yeah lisa thanks for having me it's been i don't know more than a year since i've seen the cube right pre-covered so it's been a little while recover copa remember those days well thank you for joining us virtually we appreciate that and also excited to hear some of the things that are going to be coming out at accelerate an event that i've covered in person several times so talk to me about this digital experience business unit this is relatively new what does it encompass what are you hoping to deliver from a portfolio perspective to your customers well what's interesting is it's new and it's not right because we've we've been as a company a sas company that happened to ship storage boxes on premise so we've had pure one which was largely used for monitoring and supporting our fleet like a sas company would do and customers had access to that as their single pane of class but as we expanded beyond just observability and monitoring we realized that we could use this observability to do more for customers and we introduced our pure as a service offering about three years ago now which customers just sign up for slas like you know they would on a cloud you sign up i want this performance i want this capacity it's storage so you know why don't you just sign up for what you need and we uh created the dx business unit the digital experience business units to bring those things together because frankly we're using pier one to monitor manage and allow customers to sign up for their slas in a very digital way and i guess the world's changed a little bit because you know previously you would you know call up your sales rep to do things and then it happened and i think a lot of people got a little bit of zoom fatigue um and therefore you know we see a lot of traction right now in terms of people just self-serving and going up and signing up for the slas they need talk to me about some of those slas that customers are signing up for what is it that they know with pure as a service for example in pure one that they can get well you want storage you want storage that's high performing you want storage that supports your applications you know number one thing with storage is you're signing up for capacity and performance right when you think storage you're like oh you know i need to store my videos or i need to store my apps or i need to store something and you know right now we've got customers and uh you know multiple hundreds of petabytes range right like big customers lots of storage um and we got small customers as well you know five to ten terabytes of storage as well so um but across that entire range in storage you're basically want to make sure you don't lose your data it's protected it's safe um the world's becoming a little less secure ransomware and attacks and all of those types of things so we've introduced concepts of ransomware assessment and capabilities like that but the performance of capacity are the two things you want to sign up for so what if you just said i want it this fast and i want this much space and all of the other technology problems you give to pure right because you know what you run out of space we'll ship the box we'll manage it you don't need to call us you don't need to order you don't need to do that so it's more than just a i think when people think about services they think about subscriptions right capex versus opex and sure there's an element to capex versus optics but that's not really what a service is that's just a subscription a service is hey i just want this performance in this capacity who's going to run it and operate it and manage it for me you know when you sign up for a sas service you don't really care when you sign up for salesforce how it runs who's running it etc you just want to manage your crm pipeline and you know we're bringing that same sas experience to storage you do expect that you bring up a good point when you're when you're talking about sas applications one of the things that we saw in the last year is this massive proliferation or acceleration of companies in every industry dependent on so many sas apps just for collaboration alone internally let alone externally brought up ransomware it's something i've been talking a lot about in the last year how that's been on the rise talk to me about you know as enterprise enterprises need storage to do more than just that talk to me about how you're working with customers to ensure that this data across the enterprise is secure well so it's interesting um when i talk to people and they ask me are you secure i'm like well that's kind of a silly question um because you know if you think about security there's always more you could do it's not am i secure it's how secure am i and you want to be the nsa where everything's under a lock and key you can do that and it's just going to be really expensive to do so the what we're the way we're approaching it is we're giving customers levels of ransomware that they can actually implement um for protection level zero right the simplest is make sure that i've got you know an air gap of my data and a copy of it to prevent you from altering it for up to 30 days or some time period which you know is the first level of threat that you know someone can't hold you hostage by encrypting your data those types of things and we've done that for our whole portfolio we provide that and we now even give customers an assessment to tell them you know whether they can go into our digital experience and do an assessment to see how secure are they but that's only the first step hackers are actually getting more sophisticated now on air gap and just saying well what if i do a time delayed encryption thing that overcomes the 30-day thing and you know like the world's evolving so the next level is a physical gap where you take it off the primary system and you actually put it on a secondary system your data well so you know your virtual air gaps one thing your physical distance provides another layer of security because now it's another physical asset with another copy of your data sure it costs more money because you're storing it twice so you have to decide based on the sensitivity of your information how many layers of security you want to build it you can even build in a third layer that says if something happens i don't want to pay the ransomware i just need to be able to recover quickly so let me have a rapid recovery sla and you know we use our flash play to deliver that because it's one of the you know fastest recovery products on the planet based on the performance threshold so you know we've seen a lot of companies now adopt and use flashblade is kind of that level three for rapid recovery in instead of paying for the insurance they're paying for the remediation you know what i mean so it's a different it's interesting how the landscape has evolved right and as the threat actors have access to more and more sophistication obviously that becomes a challenge but you bring up a good point and that is it's sort of it's not a matter of is it going to happen to us it's it's when and it's kind of that tolerance level based on the data but the modern data experience here's been talking about this obviously the modern data experience has changed a lot in the last year talk to us about what that is how does the modern data experience are pure one and pure as a service foundational to that and talk to me about the benefits in it for customers well so when we think about the modern data experience there's really three pillars we talk about in the modern day experience the first one is just innovation leadership pure's got a little bit of a history of redefining storage first of all flash first the unified fast fallen object you know we're on a third generation of qlc technology so we figure if we don't invent the future who else is going to you know we look around the landscape and there's a lot of data technology so we need to invent a future that people have a blueprint to copy like and that's that's our goal of modernizing the landscape you know we don't see a lot of original and innovative thought happening in the industry so we have to create the blueprint of the future right we pride ourselves on that innovation leadership um and evergreen which you know we've introduced is an innovation where you know if people buy a 500 terabytes of storage today they don't have to re-buy it every three to five years that innovation that we introduced is still unmatched in industry after we've been in industry for 10 years because companies haven't figured out how to copy it evergreen is still a differentiator it sounds like the modern data experience what you're looking to do is also define it with and for customers and have that be a unique differentiator for what care delivers 100 um so you know this innovation leadership's big um making sure that you can run your landscape like a cloud you know have a service catalog you know service catalog for developers as containers and you know we we lean very heavily into what we're doing for devops and developers not just storage administrators and you know part of the modern data experience is being cloud ready and container ready and then finally just having the best digital experience which you know pier one and peer piers of services foundational tube uh where customers can go in procure easy support easy and all of it starts with the data like if i was to say hey you're gonna get a get into a tesla right and you're gonna turn on the self-driving mode would you turn it on if you knew that there were zero miles clocked on the odometer right where no like yeah you're the first we haven't really trained this yet right no one would turn that on so for you to be able to offer a digital experience and a service experience to a customer it's all about miles driven and since we've introduced pier one five years ago you know now on a yearly basis we're collecting over 20 petabytes of data tons of signals training the algorithms around giving customers recommendations which we've been doing now customers can get performance recommendations and upgrade recommendations and now we've used the recommendations are such high fidelity that because of our miles driven we're using that internally to run and operate our services on behalf of customers and when companies think about disruptive events let me take my old portfolio and create a new one you're resetting the odometer at zero so without something like evergreen it makes no sense in terms of how do you get to as a service you can get to capex versus opex right and you know we were the first people to do that in storage with peers of service three plus years ago but we've moved beyond a financial offering now to talk about you know how do you run and operate performance and capacity slas well your point is so much more that customers need especially as there's more and more data being generated um you know the edge is exploding iot devices are exploding and there's more challenges that customers have to do but it's also being able to get those fast insights from data to be able to make those data-driven decisions which it sounds like what you're doing from all of the mileage that pure1 and pure as a service have so talk to me about some of the things that are being announced with respect to the digital experience of pure one at accelerate so there's three primary announcements um we've moved beyond observability first to do assessments so you know we can now say you know instead of just monitoring and watching what's going on we can give you a threat level assessment specific to ransomware that's a new capability we're introducing we've also been you know in monitoring monitoring storage and monitoring virtual machines for a while but we've if you take a look at how people deploy on storage they deploy vms and they deploy containers we've seen very little like they also have bare metal right but between those three now you cover how people are using storage from a deployment model and we've brought container monitoring into pier one for end-to-end traceability monitoring for you know both your container landscape as well as your storage landscape underneath with our flash frame flash plate so you know this observability and assessment space has a lot of new capabilities we're bringing the second piece is recommendations so previously we've had this data and customers could go into pure one and use the data they could simulate adding performance they could simulate adding capacity they could simulate moving this workload from here to here but now instead of you doing it we've we've created a recommendation engine where we'll tell you what to do because we actually tracked you know how much time is spent with people trying to figure out what to do there were times when storage admins were in the products like let me try moving it from here to here and see what would happen let me try moving it from here to here if you've got thousands of volumes and hundreds of arrays and that type of thing um you could spend weeks trying to figure out what to do by running permutational combinatorics so instead we've used our ai engine now to simulate taking into account customer preference load capacity previous buying patterns etc to create high fidelity recommendations for performance capacity placing new workloads workflow rebalancing and even for pure as a service which sla should i sign up for when you go to amazon one of the biggest problems on the on the cloud is too much choice there's like 300 items on the service catalog even in storage there's like i don't know 20 30 options of should i pick this storage type or this storage type for that storage type how do you even know um because we've been the miles driven analogy because we now know how customers have been deploying you can choose your workloads and based on what we've seen based on the wisdom of what we've collected across all the other customers we can tell you which service instance type you need so this recommendation approach is big and then the last one is self-service so customers now can control and set their reserved instances expand set their renewals we've even introduced a partner persona where partners can manage things on behalf of a customer and see transparency in billing and order traffic so all of those things that you're used to in kind of a commerce and a cloud experience we've brought that to traditional storage so some pretty big changes there and i like how how here has always been very bold in defining its differentiators using its own data to make better decisions as you you said customers have a ton of choice which is great it's also challenging at the same time for them to be able to understand objectively what is it that my environment needs talk to me a little bit about some of the changes that you saw in the last year as companies shifted almost overnight to a remote working situation can't get into my data center what are some of the ways in which pure has helped organizations with the advancements that you've made in your services portfolio well so the first thing we did and we did this kind of literally i think last february when you know everything immediately went into lockdown we introduced a zero touch provisioning category you don't want people in the data data data center right you like you need to obviously if there's physical stuff you have to rack stack and cable but beyond that everything else should be zero touch and so we've introduced zero patch provisioning capability immediately and some of like the largest uh one of the largest you know video conferencing providers on the planet um happened to call us immediately saying look we can't even get stuff to keep up with the demand and overnight we were able to go ahead and work with them to you know get them the efficiency that they needed so you know if i take a look at our supply chain throughout covid we were able you know to meet most shipments in some four days throughout covid even in a globally disrupted supply chain because of the agility and the flexibility we have in our portfolio and frankly just a phenomenal supply chain team as well so you know that that approach has engendered a ton of trust whenever you do anything like you know in this environment covid pandemic etc people are under stress it creates stress for human beings it even creates stress for families right have two small children it creates stress [Music] what do you how do you get through that stress all the things that are unnecessary are things you just forget about and to get the things that are necessary done you go to the people you trust so that's a great that's a great point you bring up about trust because that is table stakes for an organization to trust its partners or its customers to be able to trust that it's going to deliver what it needs it's no longer a nice to have i think this one of the things that coveted clement has shown us is that it's absolutely essential last question progression i want to get to you is let's talk about ai ops for a second we're seeing more and more organizations turning to ai ops for more intelligent operations what is it what are some of the benefits that pure can deliver in that response well look i have a lot of opinions on aiops but the first one is like saying aaiops now was like saying web 2.0 a few years ago right um it's a hot term everyone likes to talk about it and very few people actually do anything real ai right it's like well let me tell you something so as you think about aiops today you need to first get the data in the miles driven manner the second thing you need to do is you could use that data and create a ton of recommendations that you tell send to customers and you will be the equivalent of facebook ads right like click click click click click some of these are relevant some of these aren't right if all you do is create recommendations you're creating a spam flow to your customers the number one thing to really make it learning based is if someone rejects a recommendation you now have to collect that and train your algorithms to say you know what this person doesn't need that right and maybe the other person accepted that same recommendation and they do so the time isn't just about data collection and miles driven but the amount of recommendations that customers accept and reject can train and personalize how you do your ai operations and i feel like this economy because aiops is hot everyone's just like i have ai ops and it's just so facetious you need to think about how you're going to continually evolve and train and learn and who's going to train the way you train support is support personnel and bug fixes you need to monitor how your support personnel fixes things to be able to replicate and have higher efficiencies and support so even small customers can get the same level of support as the large customers because you know it's not like the big guys get 50 people and the small guys only get one right you need to use software as the great equalizer and the same thing goes in sales when you're approaching customers with offers and recommendations or when customers whether they need performance or capacity the fidelity matters and data and technology will only go so far you need to use the human feedback loop to train your ai if you don't do that you're missing the concept of machine learning agreed to last question since we have about 30 seconds left or so talk to me about how pure is going to continue to utilize ai and to your point not just throw out recommendations but actually have learning going on so that the right relevant offers for example can be delivered to the right customer at the right time well we pride ourselves on simplicity and customer first right our net promoter score is you know one of the top trust scores in the industry and because of that we've got a very vibrant and active customer community that goes into you know pure one on a daily basis to monitor the landscape to see what's going on to create support cases whatever it may be and because of that we're going to continue engaging and learning from our customers and you know i think you can't do it without the trust and you know a large portion of our business is large sas providers so you know you think about you know very very large sas companies we service them because of our evergreen model and now bringing this level of predictability creates a level of efficiency for sas companies um that means they could do more with less and that's what this industry is about well said prakash thank you so much for joining me at your our coverage of accelerate excited to see what's going on with the modern data experience how you're getting in there and working and partnering with customers using the data to learn and tweak and improve uh excited to hear some of the other stuff that comes up but i appreciate you joining me this morning thanks for having me lisa i enjoy the conversation excellent for prakash darjee i'm lisa martin you're watching thecube's coverage of pure accelerate 2021.

why from Boston Massachusetts it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2019 watch you bye Red Hat well good morning welcome back to our live coverage here in Boston with the BCC and we're at Red Hat summit 2019 you're watching exclusive coverage here on the cube this is day three of three great days here at the summit's two minimun John wall's and we're joined now by Paul Cormier who's the president of products and technologies at Red Hat good morning Paul morning how are you doing I'm doing great great so are we a wonderful job on the on the keynote stage yesterday and we're gonna jump into that a little bit but I wanted to run something by you here a great man once said every great achievement begins with a bold goal I heard that I'm looking at that man yeah so one of the many statements that I thought really jumped out yesterday let's talk about that in terms of just the Red Hat philosophy what's happened with rl8 where you've gone with openshift for and just how that is embedded in your mind to how red hat goes about its business well you know we've we've we've been in the enterprise space for 17 plus years and prior to that red had you know we were basically through the retail through the retail channel but first and foremost Red Hat started as an open source company that's where they started not as an enterprise company once we decided with the bold goal that we're gonna get this into the enterprise that's what we really set you know really transformed into what you've maybe heard before from out of my mouth is where we're we're not an open source company although everything we do is open source for an enterprise software company with an open source development model that was kind of the beginning of the first bold goal let's get Linux to the enterprise and so that's sort of how we've thought about it from day one is let's take it one step at a time you know as I said get Linux in the enterprise make make rel the operating system in the enterprise now let's take on virtualization versus n then KVM and then as that all happens so much innovation happened around Linux that all these other pieces came you know Hadoop kubernetes all the other pieces so we just kept growing with that because it's all intertwined with Linux that's one step at a time so Paul before we get off this place I want you to put a fine point on it for our audience because you look out there you know open source is not a community it's lots of communities and it's not you know one thing it's many things out there and today people will look at there's certain companies how do I create IP and monetize what we're doing and you know where the project and the company are you know sometimes intertwined and licensing models changing you know Red Hat has a very simple philosophy on it and it's not something that's necessarily easily replicatable yeah I mean there's simple simple philosophy is it so it's it's upstream first that that's that's our philosophy yes we are a business and certainly making our products successful is is is important number number number one goal number zero goal before that is make the project successful our products can't be successful unless we're we're built on a successful project and it's not something that we even think about because it's just ingrained it's it's it's in our DNA so I mean I'll give you examples you know even kubernetes we didn't start the project Google started the project but we knew in order if we were going to incorporate that in a big way into our products that we had to be prominent in the community so that's what we did first and then it rolled out into the products it's just ingrained it's in the DNA yeah so let's talk a little bit about kubernetes openshift you've now got over a thousand customers congratulations on that and openshift for we spent a bunch of time talking with the team but let's start a little bit higher level because you know there's dozens of you know kubernetes options out there people look at is there interoperability between them you know in the early days customers would just spin their own pieces and on you know today every cloud provider has at least one option if not multiple options and there's all the independent how does this play out you know where are we along the maturity and how do all these pieces fit together or do they I mean if you look if you look at kubernetes I mean the thing here's the the good news the good news is open source has become so prominent in in everywhere we wear now ourselves included we make this mistake ourselves we've confused projects with products so kubernetes is a project it's a development project and we all talk about that like it's a product the same it's the same thing with Linux so I'll give you an example with the Linux kernel where all you know all the commercial vendors and everyone else is in that same upstream development tree with the Linux kernel but when the commercial guys like ourselves when we go to build a product we make choices of which file systems we're going to support which installers we're going to support you know what we're gonna do for management what we're gonna support for storage and for many reasons we all make different decisions so that's why at the end of the day when we come down to our products even though they're all completely open you know rel is different from Susu which is different from a bun too which is different from all the others it's the same exact thing with kubernetes we all develop here but now we bring that down into a platform like open shift that kubernetes touches userspace api's it such as kernel a api's and so unless you you integrate those and they all move forward in the lifecycle of that platform at the same time we get out of sync with each other and that's one of the reasons why it's a product and they don't necessarily work across each other with you know with all the other products it's the same exact principle that made rel and at the same exact principle how linux works right so what advice do you give to customers is how they look at this because they're like oh wait there's now azure an open shift this jointly offered solution but do I use that or Duty as the native you know aks solution out there you've got partnership to the AWS you know where does open shift versus anthos on google fit it's it definitely is a little bit fragmented well the other thing that's happened around the cloud one of the things that happened in early in the cloud a lot of the cloud providers said every applications going to the cloud tomorrow I think that was ten years ago and the last number I thought sorry we're about 20 percent there and so and that's great we think that's great but customers still have on-premise applications and they have a running on-premise either bare metal virtual machine they have their own private clouds in many cases and now they want to go across clouds every customer I talked to and it's not just for lock-in that's definitely an issue they want to go across clouds because this cloud provider might have a better service here than that cloud provider and vice versa so what customers want to do is they want one common operating environment both of the applications developer in the operators they can't afford to have five different silos because just like the example I used with Linux distributions being different every one of these kubernetes distributions is different and so anthos for example if you're gonna have all your applications including bare metal applications on Google Linux then that's good because your operators have one operating environment you developers have one development environment but that's impractical and that's why that's that's not gonna work I mean the reason why I think Microsoft is one of our best partners here is they understand this which is why they've embraced openshift so so deeply even though they have aks in their stable and the reason why I think they understand this is because they like us have been in the enterprise space for a long time this is how enterprise computing works and I think that's the model that our customers they don't have no choice to deploy they just can't afford to have five different you know operating environments it's like the UNIX days it's like the UNIX days all over again and you know when you had one vertical stack and you know customers started to roll out a common fact that's why Rell succeeded because we gave them that commonality and they couldn't afford five different silos to try to manage and develop their applications to you know is there a different rhythm or unique rhythm to the open source community in terms of development in terms of new products that might be a little different than then old older models because you know if I'm saying if I if there's an interest that focuses maybe in one area and the interests of ER you know or momentum shifts over to a different direction and and maybe this standard or this old way kind of loses a little bit of its impetus or its force I mean what that creates decision challenges on customer sign but but absolutely and and that's why as they said even with kubernetes we didn't jump in full force exactly right away you know we sort of we sort of worked in many of it with many container orchestration technologies out there most of which besides kubernetes are gone by the wayside a bit now and you know we sort of sort of look at that and see where this plays out well we get involved but we also try to make make the best technical decision as well kubernetes now it's got way too much momentum in in in the in with open source because it's got so much momentum that's where the innovation is happening and at the end of the day customers even though they have confused many projects with products they still want they still want the right technology to solve their business business problems right and so cuckoo Bernays has so much momentum around it that's where the innovation is happening so that's that's that's the plot that's the big part of the platform right now and so I think that's the other thing I think that a lot of people that try to jump into this space miss is if you're gonna base your enterprise product on an upstream project you better have good influence in that upstream project because when your customers ask you to address an issue or or take it in a direction or help take it in the direction if you don't have that influence you can't satisfy your customers so we learned very very early on that upstream is is not a bolt-on for us it's an integral part that starts even before the product starts so Paul I've heard many people often call Red Hat the Switzerland of IT you know being where you sit in the community and you know for years at this show we've interviewed you know all of the hardware players and everything like that sorry sorry I'm taking important calls it's no worries you know live audience can wait we'll show you the clip of John Cleese when we got interrupted on a program once we won't think was my admin telling me I needed to come here you're good but so you know with Red Hat starting as that as that Switzerland when I look at the multi cloud world its you've got interesting combination you know Satya Nadella up on stage is not something that we would have thought of right five years ago so you know VMware supporting OpenShift announced today is not something that many people will look at and be like oh geez you know that seems surprising to me because you know we have you know fights over virtualization or various piece of the stack what do you see in kind of the software and multi cloud world today that's maybe a little different than it was five or ten years ago I think I mean to VMware's credit they're trying to satisfy their customers and their customers are saying I want OpenShift and so we we work with trying to satisfy our customers to the Microsoft arrangement I mean as you guys probably well know we weren't the best of friends you know five six seven eight years ago and I think Satya said it on stage and they our customers got us together literally we had a set of big customers that almost took us in a room and said you guys need to talk and and frankly I think they're one of our best partners right now I'm not sure it could have happened without Satya but they're one of our best partners because we're both interested in satisfying our customers in and as I said I think Microsoft really understands the enterprise world and that's why we're going in the common direction we almost when we get in the room with their engineers we almost complete each other's sentences of you know when we start talking about what we need to do you know there's been an announcement early in the week ahead of a global economic study done IDC came up with this huge number right 10 trillion dollar impact that Linux is having globally speaking just if you would just curious about your perspective on that what kind of a statement that is and and the dollar values that are achieved or the incremental values that are achieved in terms of applying these technology I think it's a couple things I think I think it's a statement that this is the innovation most so open-source is the innovation model going forward period end of story full stop and I think as I said in my keynote yesterday you know leading up to the the biggest acquisition ever for a software company not an open-source software coming a software company that happened to be an open-source software company I don't think there's any doubt that that open source has one here here today it and it's because of the pace of innovation I mean yes I mean we've been at rel for 17 plus years well we probably spent the first third or so without 17 plus years trying to convince the world that Linux was secure and it was stable and it was ready for the enterprise once we got through that hurdle it was just off to the races from there and kubernetes what you know I said yesterday containers came on the scene although they've been here technically for a long time they came on the scene in 14 herba Nettie's in 15 it's only 2019 it's really not that far downstream where were as you said we've got a thousand commercial customers and the keynote this morning talking about some of the use cases that we're solving with with OpenShift I mean Boston Children's Hospital is just unbelievable of what they can do in a matter of a week that used to take them a matter of a month to do right that's because of the innovation model we have dr. Ellen Grant on yesterday by the way so if you haven't watched that yet go back to the cube net and check that interview out yeah I mean fascinating kind of customer conversation we've had about transformation but want to get your take on the only constant in our industry which is change I wrote right after the the announcement of the acquisition and meeting with your changes Red Hat the one thing that they've actually built themselves for is to deal with the massive amounts of change you know you could tell better than more how fast the Linux kernel is changing you know a third of the codes changed in the last two years and kubernetes is actually not as many lines of code as Linux but it's massive amounts of change I heard you know we relate out to about five years of development on that I heard the the pace going forward will only get faster every three years you're gonna have a major release every six months right a minor release so how do you get the team in the community and all these things you know ever keeping up and even turning it up to 11 that day that's that's probably the one of the biggest parts of our job our customers can't deal with that change you know frankly I think in the bidding beginning of OpenStack one of the one of the mistakes that we as a community did for our customers was there were some vendors out there trying to tell customers you need to stay close to the head to the upstream head you need to stay close to the head and we really all try to get things out in six months that's great to try to start to evaluate innovation and how what you can do with that it's not great for necessarily running a stable business on and that's what and that's what I think our job is is to help our customers consume open-source developed technologies in a way that they can continue to run their business and that was the goal that was the audacious goal of rel from the beginning is that the model of rel it's in it's no I it's it's not necessarily about the bits because they're free it's about the life cycle of that and how we can help our customers consume that and that's what we do that frankly it to the core well just to follow up on that if you ask your customer and you say hey you're using Azure what version you are using they're like Microsoft patches and updates that constantly as opposed to the traditional you know Patch Tuesday in Windows so you know we seem to be closing that gap a little but it's challenging between the stuff I control and the stuff that I consume well we'll look at even OpenShift for we used I mean I know ashesh was on yesterday talking about that but we used a lot of the great technology we got from core OS to start to bring that model bet on to even on premise if you so choose with open shift because there's so many of the components that are that are intertwined with each other you know you've got kubernetes with talking the user space talking the kernel user space talking to the kernel talking the storage talking to networking so now automating that for our customers for that updates is is is what they want because that's how they consume it in the cloud I remember when we first started rel we used to put the the features on the side of the box and the first thing was what version of the kernel it was that quickly went away - they don't want to have to worry about that because they don't have the expertise to do to be added' eyewire themselves well congratulations Paul great week thank you very much again well done now on the keynote stage yesterday fascinating stuff this morning - so well done on the program inside and we wish you look down the road and don't forget to check your voicemail no I will thank you guys very much might be important all right always a pleasure back with more here from Red Hat summit 2019 you're watching us live here on the Q [Music]

>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE covering Microsoft Ignite brought to you by Cohesity and theCUBE's Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host Stu Miniman. We are joined by Chris Menard, he is the lead storage administrator at Brown University. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, Chris. >> Thanks for having me. >> So in your role, you would do storage, backup recovery, and disaster recovery. I mean, I think our viewers, we have a sense of what you would do at a large Fortune 500, But what do you at an Ivy League University? What kinds of things are you working on? >> So from disaster recovery we're doing things to protect all of the data that the university has. So research data, academic data, business data. So we're making sure that if something were to happen in Providence itself, we would be covered and have access to our data, our applications. If our data center were to go away. >> So in a way your constituents are a lot larger because you're also thinking, is it student data as well? So student data, research data? >> Yes, so student data, research data, administrative data, faculty data. Any kind of data that gets generated by pretty much anybody that either works or attends the university. >> Chris, wonder if we step back for a second. We're here at Microsoft Ignite, I know that Microsoft has a strong connection with higher education. But have you been to this show before? What's the relationship between the university and Microsoft that you have interactions with? >> So this is my first time coming to Ignite with Brown. I've been to Ignite when it used to be called TechEd, so a long time ago. But we do have a pretty good relationship with Microsoft. Obviously, we have everything from Windows Operating Systems all the way up to cloud services with Azure. Something that we just kind of started delving into this year. So we're looking at running things like Remote app in the cloud. We have some of our disaster recovery data in the Azure cloud as well. And I'm sure they'll be more to come as we learn more about what we can put there and how that can help us. >> Yeah, Microsoft really sits at the center of this multi-cloud discussion. As you've said, they've got SaaS offerings. They've got public cloud. >> Yep. >> They're in your data center. How does Brown look at, kind of, cloud overall? And you said starting to look at some of the public cloud offerings. So maybe give us a little bit of what you can about this strategy today. >> Right, so, we are doing a lot with secondary backups, secondary data for our backups going to the cloud. So for disaster recovery, hopefully in the future we'll be able to use that data for test and dev or maybe moving workloads from one place to another place. We're looking at putting some actual workloads in Azure, in the cloud for bursting capabilities, things like that. >> Yeah, you look at data in a multi-cloud world, tell us, what are you looking for when you talk about how you manage your data in a multi-cloud world? Even we talk about, some people when they went to SaaS they were like, "Oh, I don't need to worry about things like "security and data protection." Well, those people might have had to learn faster or they'd be out of a job. So what do you look and how do you use? >> Right, so security is definitely one of the main concerns. So, I mean, we have a whole security team that that's all they do is look at these projects and look at what we're trying to do and say, "Wait a second, what's the security around it?" As far as the tools that we're using for security. >> Data protection. >> Data protection we're using Cohesity. We just started using them at the beginning of this year. We switched off, we were a long time Legacy backup infrastructure. So a lot of moving parts. We decided that we wanted to find something that was more streamlined and was looking to the future with the way that they did data protection and disaster recovery. >> And where do you use the Cohesity solutions? Is it in your data center, public cloud, which offerings? >> So we have a Cohesity Appliances in our data center. We protect all of our virtual machines and physical machines using Cohesity. We tier that off into Azure cloud as a secondary copy, so then we have flexibility on what we can do with that data now that it's been virtualized and sent off to the cloud. >> Great, and are you realizing any cost savings? I mean, I know it's still early yet, you've only recently gone to Cohesity. But what's the... >> We have realized a lot of cost savings. Probably about 50% reduction in costs, CapEx style costs. And we also have reduced some of our year-to-year maintenance with licensing. >> All right, maybe talk about the operational side of things too. How many people did you have managing these kind of environment before? What's it look like after? What's that change mean? >> We have the same amount of people still managing the same environment. The only difference is now we're not spending as much time. So we kind of manage it across different teams within our environment. So our systems teams will do recoveries of virtual machines or data, whereas my team will actually manage the backups and adding clients and troubleshooting and things like that. Our team probably saves 10 or 15 hours a week. And the other teams about the same, with not having to troubleshoot things that just weren't working in the old platform compared to the new platform. >> Yeah, it was actually one of the things in the keynote this morning Satya Nadella was talking about business productivity. You always say it's nice if I could shave off an hour here, five hours there. There's always fear in IT, it's like, "Oh, wait, "they're going to put me out of a job." But the reality is you've always got more projects to work on and more things to do. >> There's always something else for us to do, which we're finding there's plenty of work for everyone to do. So we don't have to spend that time doing things that we shouldn't have been doing. >> I'm curious about how you stay on the cutting edge. I mean, typically you think about academia in general as being a little slow to adopt the latest and greatest technologies. And yet, this is where the research gets done, so much of it at these top universities. So what's the balance in your experience, and how do you stay abreast of all the new gizmos? >> We're pretty lucky because we're more of the central IT for the university even though we do work with researchers in different departments. So we are always constantly out there looking for, how can we do what we're doing now better, more efficiently, maybe cheaper, maybe not? But we're constantly looking for, what's the best way we can deliver the service that all of our users need. And it's a pretty broad base of users. Like you said, from students to researchers to just regular admins. They're all very different workloads and different users. >> All right, so, Chris, as you've rolled out Cohesity and you're starting to adopt Azure, what learnings have you had? If you're sitting down with one of your peers, and you hear them said, "I'm looking at this." What was the experience? What can I do to make it a little faster, save the team some heartburn maybe? >> I would say the biggest thing is just to do your homework. Go out and look and see what are your pain points today. And talk to people like Cohesity and say, "Honestly, here's my pain points, what can "you do to help me?" Cohesity's sat with us from the very beginning and they were very open to, "We can help "you with this, this, and this. We can't do that, "but we can get it into the product down the road." And they've done with with a lot of things that we've asked for to help us with whatever our needs might have been. >> Yeah, anything particular that you're asking of Microsoft, Cohesity, or others in the ecosystem that would help you do your job better? >> Not at this exact moment. Since we started with Cohesity, we have put in some requests with them over the first couple of months. And the product has evolved, maybe not because of stuff that we only asked for. I mean, it could have been a whole hundred other customers that asked for the same thing. I'm not sure. But they're very quick to put those things into the system, and they roll out updates very, very quickly and keep it going. >> Yeah, so we talk about education might be slow to adopt things. You've got a storage group, storage is not known as the latest and greatest. How do you manage things like upgrades? I was standing in line waiting and joking, it's like, "We're in a Microsoft event, remember Patch Tuesdays?" Yeah, how do you look at the, kind of, cloud on-demand, always on the latest generation versus balancing to make sure that things are trusted, secured, and tested? >> You're exactly right. In the storage world you might only do an upgrade once or twice a year at most. With Microsoft you're doing them once a month, maybe. With Cohesity, if they tell me there's a new upgrade or a patch, I'm ready to install it on a moment's notice. It's non-disruptive and the support team they have is so very good and quick that even if something were to go wrong, I am very confident they would have it fixed in very short order. So the confidence level with doing upgrades is very high. >> In terms of one of the big buzz words we hear, at this conference as well as at other technology conferences is "digital transformation." What does that mean to Brown University? Or does it mean anything? >> Well, it does. Our CIO had put out in his last year that we were going to start working on digital transformation as one of our big projects. What that exactly means for like my group is just what we have to do to support whatever the other groups are going to do to support moving toward a digital transformation. So if that means buying some new storage, or adding more storage to what we have, or talking to them about what apps are being added and how can we back that up and how can we perform disaster recovery services for those? That's the kind of things that our group would be worried about. More so than, what's the actual digital transformation itself. So it is something that is on our plate, but it's not the actual transformation itself. >> Well, Chris, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It was a lot of fun talking to you. >> Thank you for having me. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, we will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite in just a little bit. (upbeat techno music)

Yeah, I'm Aala, They're the co-founder back to back. This is the cube silicon angle.com, Silicon angle dot TV's production of the cube, our flagship telecasts. We go out to the event. That was a great conversation. I was really just, just cool. I could have, we could have probably hit on a few more things, obviously well read. Awesome. Co-founder of Cloudera a. You were, you did a good job teaming up with that co-founder, huh? Not bad on the cube, huh? He's not bad on the cube, isn't he? He, >>He reads the internet. >>That's what I'm saying. >>Anything is going on. >>He's a cube star, you know, And >>Technology. Jeff knows it. Yeah. >>We, we tell you, I'm smarter just by being in Cloudera all those years. And I actually was following what he was saying, Sad and didn't dust my brain. So, Okay, so you're back. So we were talking earlier with Michaels and about the relational database thing. So I kind of pick that up where we left off with you around, you know, he was really excited. It's like, you know, hey, we saw that relational database movement happen. He was part of that. Yeah, yeah. That generation. And then, but things were happening or kind of happening the same way in a similar way, still early. So I was trying to really peg with him, how early are we, like, so, you know, as the curve, you know, this is 1400, it's not the Javit Center yet. Maybe the Duke world, you know, next year might be at the Javit Center, 35,000 just don't go to Vegas. So I'm trying to figure out where we are on that curve. Yeah. And we on the upwards slope, you know, down here, not even hitting that, >>I think, I think, I think we're moving up quicker than previous waves. And actually if you, if you look for example, Oracle, I think it took them 15, 20 years until they, they really became a mature company, VM VMware, which started about, what, 12, 13 years ago. It took them about maybe eight years to, to be a big company, met your company, and I'm hoping we're gonna do it in five. So a couple more years. >>Highly accelerated. >>Yes. But yeah, we see, I mean, I'm, I'm, I've been surprised by the growth. I have been, Right? I've been told, warned about enterprise software and, and that it takes long for production to take place. >>But the consumerization trend is really changing that. I mean, it seems to be that, yeah, the enterprises always last. Why the shorter >>Cycle? I think the shorter cycle is coming from having the, the, the, the right solution for the right problem at the right time. I think that's a big part of it. So luck definitely is a big part of this. Now, in terms of why this is changing compared to a couple of dec decades ago, why the adoption is changing compared to a couple of decades ago. I, I think that's coming just because of how quickly the technology itself, the underlying hardware is evolving. So right now, the fact that you can buy a single server and it has eight cores to 16 cores has 12 hards to terabytes. Each is, is something that's just pushing the, the, the, the limits what you can do with the existing systems and hence making it more likely for new systems to disrupt them. >>Yeah. We can talk about a lot. It's very easy for people to actually start a, a big data >>Project. >>Yes. For >>Example. Yes. And the hardest part is, okay, what, what do I really, what problem do I need to solve? How am I gonna, how am I gonna monetize it? Right? Those are the hard parts. It's not the, not the underlying >>Technology. Yes, Yes, that's true. That's true. I mean, >>You're saying, eh, you're saying >>Because, because I'm seeing both so much. I'm, I'm seeing both. I'm seeing both. And like, I'm seeing cases where you're right. There's some companies that was like, Oh, this Hadoop thing is so cool. What problem can I solve with it? And I see other companies, like, I have this huge problem and, and, and they don't know that HA exists. It's so, And once they know, they just jump on it right away. It's like, we know when you have a headache and you're searching for the medicine in Espin. Wow. It >>Works. I was talking to Jeff Hiba before he came on stage and, and I didn't even get to it cuz we were so on a nice riff there. Right. Bunch of like a musicians playing the guitar together. But like he, we talked about the it and and dynamics and he said something that I thoughts right. On money and SAP is talking the same thing and said they're going to the lines of business. Yes. Because it is the gatekeeper that's, it's like selling mini computers to a mainframe selling client servers from a mini computer team. Yeah. >>There's not, we're seeing, we're seeing both as well. So more likely the, the former one meaning, meaning that yes, line of business and departments, they adopt the technology and then it comes in and they see there's already these five different departments having it and they think, okay, now we need to formalize this across the organization. >>So what happens then? What are you seeing out there? Like when that happens, that mean people get their hands on, Hey, we got a problem to solve. Yeah. Is that what it comes down to? Well, Hadoop exist. Go get Hadoop. Oh yeah. They plop it in there and I what does it do? They, >>So they pop it into their, in their own installation or on the, on the cloud and they show that this actually is working and solving the problem for them. Yeah. And when that happens, it's a very, it's a very easy adoption from there on because they just go tell it, We need this right now because it's solving this problem and it's gonna make, make us much >>More money moving it right in. Yes. No problems. >>Is is that another reason why the cycle's compressed? I mean, you know, you think client server, there was a lot of resistance from it and now it's more much, Same thing with mobile. I mean mobile is flipped, right? I mean, so okay, bring it in. We gotta deal with it. Yep. I would think the same thing. We, we have a data problem. Let's turn it into an >>Opportunity. Yeah. In my, and it goes back to what I said earlier, the right solution for the right problem at the right time. Like when they, when you have larger amounts of unstructured data, there isn't anything else out there that can even touch what had, can >>Do. So Amar, I need to just change gears here a minute. The gaming stuff. So we have, we we're featured on justin.tv right now on the front page. Oh wow. But the numbers aren't coming in because there's a competing stream of a recently released Modern Warfare three feature. Yes. Yes. So >>I was looking for, we >>Have to compete with Modern Warfare three. So can you, can we talk about Modern Warfare three for a minute and share the folks what you think of the current version, if any, if you played it. Yeah. So >>Unfortunately I'm waiting to get back home. I don't have my Xbox with me here. >>A little like a, I'm talking about >>My lines and business. >>Boom. Water warfares like a Christmas >>Tree here. Sorry. You know, I love, I'm a big gamer. I'm a big video gamer at Cloudera. We have every Thursday at five 30 end office, we, we play Call of of Beauty version four, which is modern world form one actually. And I challenge, I challenge people out there to come challenge our team. Just ping me on Twitter and we'll, we'll do a Cloudera versus >>Let's, let's, let's reframe that. Let team out. There am Abalas company. This is the geeks that invent the future. Jeff Haer Baer at Facebook now at Cloudera. Hammerer leading the charge. These guys are at gamers. So all the young gamers out there am are saying they're gonna challenge you. At which version? >>Modern Warfare one. >>Modern Warfare one. Yes. How do they fire in? Can you set up an >>External We'll >>We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Okay. >>Yeah. Just p me on Twitter and We'll, >>We can carry it live actually we can stream that. Yeah, >>That'd be great. >>Great. >>Yeah. So I'll tell you some of our best Hadooop committers and Hadoop developers pitch >>A picture. Modern Warfare >>Three going now Model Warfare three. Very excited about the game. I saw the, the trailers for it looks, graphics look just amazing. Graphics are amazing. I love the Sirius since the first one that came out. And I'm looking forward to getting back home to playing the game. >>I can't play, my son won't let me play. I'm such a fumbler with the Hub. I'm a keyboard controller. I can't work the Xbox controller. Oh, I have a coordination problem my age and I'm just a gluts and like, like Dad, sorry, Charity's over. I can I play with my friends? You the box. But I'm around big gamer. >>But, but in terms of, I mean, something I wanted to bring up is how to link up gaming with big data and analysis and so on. So like, I, I'm a big gamer. I love playing games, but at the same time, whenever I play games, I feel a little bit guilty because it's kind of like wasted time. So it's like, I mean, yeah, it's fun and I'm getting lots of enjoyment on it makes my life much more cheerful. But still, how can we harness all of this, all of these hours that gamers spend playing a game like Modern Warfare three, How can we, how can we collect instrument, all of the data that's coming from that and coming up, for example, with something useful with predicted. >>This is exactly, this is exactly the kind of application that's mainstream is gaming. Yeah. Yeah. Danny at Riot G is telling me, we saw him at Oracle Open World. He's up there for the Java one. He said that they, they don't really have a big data platform and their business is about understanding user behavior rep tons of data about user playing time, who they're playing with. Yeah, Yeah. How they want us to get into currency trading, You know, >>Buy, I can't, I can't mention the names, but some of the biggest giving companies out there are using Hadoop right now. And, and depending on CDH for doing exactly that kind of thing, creating >>A good user experience >>Today, they're doing it for the purpose of enhancing the user experience and improving retention. So they do track everything. Like every single bullet, you fire everything in best Ball Head, you get everything home run, you do. And, and, and in, in a three >>Type of game consecutive headshot, you get >>Everything, everything is being Yeah. Headshot you get and so on. But, but as you said, they are using that information today to sell more products and, and, and retain their users. Now what I'm suggesting is that how can you harness that energy for the good as well? I mean for making money, money is good and everything, but how can you harness that for doing something useful so that all of this entertainment time is also actually productive time as well. I think that'd be a holy grail in this, in this environment if we >>Can achieve that. Yeah. It used to be that corn used to be the telegraph of the future of about, of applications, but gaming really is, if you look at gaming, you know, you get the headset on. It's a collaborative environment. Oh yeah. You got unified communications. >>Yeah. And you see our teenager kids, how, how many hours they spend on these things. >>You got play as a play environments, very social collaborative. Yeah. You know, some say, you know, we we're saying, what I'm saying is that that's the, that's the future work environment with Skype evolving. We're our multiplayer game's called our job. Right? Yeah. You know, so I'm big on gaming. So all the gamers out there, a has challenged you. Yeah. Got a big data example. What else are we seeing? So let's talk about the, the software. So we, one of the things you were talking about that I really liked, you were going down the list. So on Mike's slide he had all the new features. So around the core, can you just go down the core and rattle off your version of what, what it means and what it is. So you start off with say H Base, we talked about that already. What are the other ones that are out there? >>So the projects that we have right there, >>The projects that are around those tools that are being built. Cause >>Yeah, so the foundational, the foundational one as we mentioned before, is sdfs for storage map use for processing. Yeah. And then the, the immediate layer above that is how to make MAP reduce easier for the masses. So how can, not everybody knows how to learn map, use Java, everybody knows sql, right? So, so one of the most successful projects right now that has the highest attach rate, meaning people usually when they install had do installed as well is Hive. So Hive takes sequel and so Jeff Harm Becker, my co-founder, when he was at Facebook, his team built the Hive system. Essentially Hive takes sql so you don't have to learn a new language, you already know sql. And then converts that into MAP use for you. That not only expands the developer base for how many people can use adu, but also makes it easier to integrate Hadoop through all DBC and JDBC integrated with BI tools like MicroStrategy and Tableau and Informatica, et cetera, et cetera. >>You mentioned R too. You mentioned R Program R >>As well. Yeah, R is one of our best partnerships. We're very, very happy with them. So that's, that's one of the very key projects is Hive assisted project to Hive ISS called Pig. A pig Latin is a language that ya invented that you have to learn the language. It's very easy, it's very easy to learn compared to map produce. But once you learn it, you can, you can specify very deep data pipelines, right? SQL is good for queries. It's not good for data pipelines because it becomes very convoluted. It becomes very hard for the, the human brain to understand it. So Pig is much more natural to the human. It's more like Pearl very similar to scripting kind of languages. So with Peggy can write very, very long data pipelines, again, very successful projects doing very, very well. Another key project is Edge Base, like you said. So Edge Base allows you to do low latencies. So you can do very, very quick lookups and also allows you to do transactions. So you can do updates in inserts and deletes. So one of the talks here that had World we try to recommend people watch when the videos come out is the Talk by Jonathan Gray from Facebook. And he talked about how they use Edge Base, >>Jonathan, something on here in the Cube later. Yeah. So >>Drill him on that. So they use Edge Base now for many, many things within Facebook. They have a big team now committed to building an improving edge base with us and with the community at large. And they're using it for doing their online messaging system. The live mail system in Facebook is powered by Edge Base right now. Again, Pro and eBay, The Casini project, they gave a keynote earlier today at the conference as well is using Edge Base as well. So Edge Base is definitely one of the projects that's growing very, very quickly right now within the Hudu system. Another key project that Jeff alluded to earlier when he was on here is Flum. So Flume is very instrumental because you have this nice system had, but Hadoop is useless unless you have data inside it. So how do you get the data inside do? >>So Flum essentially is this very nice framework for having these agents all over your infrastructure, inside your web servers, inside your application servers, inside your mobile devices, your network equipment that collects all of that data and then reliably and, and materializes it inside Hado. So Flum does that. Another good project is Uzi, so many of them, I dunno how, how long you want me to keep going here, But, but Uzi is great. Uzi is a workflow processing system. So Uzi allows you to define a series of jobs. Some of them in Pig, some of them in Hive, some of them in map use. You can define a series of them and then link them to each other and say, only start this job when these other jobs, two jobs finish because I'm waiting for the input from them before I can kick off and so on. >>So Uzi is a very nice framework that will will do that. We'll manage the whole graph of jobs for you and retry things when they fail, et cetera, et cetera. Another good project is where W H I R R and where allows you to very easily start ADU cluster on top of Amazon. Easy two on top of Rackspace, virtualized environ. It's more for kicking off, it's for kicking off Hadoop instances or edge based instances on any virtual infrastructure. Okay. VMware, vCloud. So that it supports all of the major vCloud, sorry, all of the me, all of the major virtualized infrastructure systems out there, Eucalyptus as well, and so on. So that's where W H I R R ARU is another key project. It's one, it's duck cutting's main kind of project right now. Don of that gut cutting came on stage with you guys has, So Aru ARO is a project about how do we encode with our files, the schema of these files, right? >>Because when you open up a text file and you don't know how to what the columns mean and how to pars it, it becomes very hard to work for it. So ARU allows you to do that much more easily. It's also useful for doing rrp. We call rtc remove procedure calls for having different services talk to each other. ARO is very useful for that as well. And the list keeps going on and on Maha. Yeah. Which we just, thanks for me for reminding me of my house. We just added Maha very recently actually. What is that >>Adam? I'm not >>Familiar with it. So Maha is a data mining library. So MAHA takes some of the most popular data mining algorithms for doing clustering and regression and statistical modeling and implements them using the map map with use model. >>They have, they have machine learning in it too or Yes, yes. So that's the machine learning. >>So, So yes. Stay vector to machines and so on. >>What Scoop? >>So Scoop, you know, all of them. Thanks for feeding me all the names. >>The ones I don't understand, >>But there's so many of them, right? I can't even remember all of them. So Scoop actually is a very interesting project, is short for SQL to Hadoop, hence the name Scoop, right? So SQ from SQL and Oops from Hadoop and also means Scoop as in scooping up stuff when you scoop up ice cream. Yeah. And the idea for Scoop is to make it easy to move data between relational systems like Oracle metadata and it is a vertical and so on and Hadoop. So you can very simply say, Scoop the name of the table inside the relation system, the name of the file inside Hadoop. And the, the table will be copied over to the file and Vice and Versa can say Scoop the name of the file in Hadoop, the name of the table over there, it'll move the table over there. So it's a connectivity tool between the relational world and the Hadoop world. >>Great, great tutorial. >>And all of these are Apache projects. They're all projects built. >>It's not part of your, your unique proprietary. >>Yes. But >>These are things that you've been contributing >>To, We're contributing to the whole ecosystem. Yes. >>And you understand very well. Yes. And >>And contribute to your knowledge of the marketplace >>And Absolutely. We collaborate with the, with the community on creating these projects. We employ committers and founders for many of these projects. Like Duck Cutting, the founder of He works in Cloudera, the founder for that UIE project. He works at Calera for zookeeper works at Calera. So we have a number of them on stuff >>Work. So we had Aroon from Horton Works. Yes. And and it was really good because I tell you, I walk away from that conversation and I gotta say for the folks out there, there really isn't a war going on in Apache. There isn't. And >>Apache, there isn't. I mean isn't but would be honest. Like, and in the developer community, we are friends, we're working together. We want to achieve the, there's >>No war. It's all Kumbaya. Everyone understands the rising tide floats, all boats are all playing nice in the same box. Yes. It's just a competitive landscape in Horton. Works >>In the business, >>Business business, competitive business, PR and >>Pr. We're trying to be friendly, as friendly as we can. >>Yeah, no, I mean they're, they're, they're hying it up. But he was like, he was cool. Like, Hey, you know, we know each other. Yes. We all know each other and we're just gonna offer free Yes. And charge with support. And so are they. And that's okay. And they got other things going on. Yes. But he brought up the question. He said they're, they're launching a management console. So I said, Tyler's got a significant lead. He kind of didn't really answer the question. So the question is, that's your core bread and butter, That's your yes >>And no. Yes and no. I mean if you look at, if you look at Cloudera Enterprise, and I mentioned this earlier and when we talked in the morning, it has two main things in it. Cloudera Enterprise has the management suite, but it also has the, the the the support and maintenance that we provide to our customers and all the experience that we have in our team part That subscription. Yes. For a description. And I, I wanna stress the point that the fact that I built a sports car doesn't mean that I'm good at running that sports car. The driver of the car usually is much better at driving the car than the guy who built the car, right? So yes, we have many people on staff that are helping build had, but we have many more people on stuff that helped run Hado at large scale, at at financial indu, financial industry, retail industry, telecom industry, media industry, health industry, et cetera, et cetera. So that's very, very important for our customer. All that experience that we bring in on how to run the system technically Yeah. Within these verticals. >>But their strategies clear. We're gonna create an open source project within Apache for a management consult. Yes. And we sell support too. Yes. So there'll be a free alternative to management. >>So we have to see, But I mean we look at the product, I mean our products, >>It's gotta come down to product differentiation. >>Our product has been in the market for two years, so they just started building their products. It's >>Alpha, It's just Alpha. The >>Product is Alpha in Alpha right now. Yeah. Okay. >>Well the Apache products, it is >>Apache, right? Yeah. The Apache project is out. So we'll see how it does it compare to ours. But I think ours is way, way ahead of anything else out there. Yeah. Essentially people to try that for themselves and >>See essentially, John, when I asked Arro why does the world need Hortonwork? You know, eventually the answer we got was, well it's free. It needs to be more open. Had needs to be more open. >>No, there's, >>It's going to be, That's not really the reason why Warton >>Works. >>No, they want, they want to go make money. >>Exactly. We wasn't >>Gonna say them you >>When I kept pushing and pushing and that's ultimately the closest we can get cuz you >>Just listens. Not gonna >>12 open source projects. Yes. >>I >>Mean, yeah, yeah. You can't get much more open. Yeah. Look >>At management >>Consult, but Airs not shooting on all those. I mean, I mean not only we are No, no, not >>No, no, we absolutely >>Are. No, you are contributing. You're not. But that's not all your projects. There's other people >>Involved. Yeah, we didn't start, we didn't start all of these projects. Yeah, that's >>True. You contributing heavily to all of them. >>Yes, we >>Are. And that's clear. Todd Lipkin said that, you know, he contributed his first patch to HPAC in 2008. Yes. So I mean, you go back through the ranks >>Of your people and Todd now is a committer on Edge base is a committer on had itself. So on a number >>Of you clearly the lead and, and you know, and, but >>There is a concern. But we, we've heard it and I wanna just ask you No, no. So there's a concern that if I build processes around a proprietary management console, Yes. I'm gonna end up being locked into that proprietary management CNA all over again. Now this is so far from ca Yes. >>Right. >>But that's a concern that some people have expressed. And, and, and I think one of the reasons why Port Works is getting so much attention. So Yes. >>Talk about that. It's, it's a very good, it's a very good observation to make. Actually, >>There there is two separate things here. There's the platform where all the data sets and then there's this management parcel beside the platform. Now why did we make the management console why the cloud didn't make the management console? Because it makes our job for supporting the customers much more achievable. When a customer calls in and says, We have a problem, help us fix this problem. When they go to our management console, there is a button they click that gives us a dump of the state, of the cluster. And that's what allows us to very quickly debug what's going on. And within minutes tell them you need to do this and you to do that. Yeah. Without that we just can't offer the support services. There's >>Real value there. >>Yes. So, so now a year from, But, but, but you have to keep in mind that the, the underlying platform is completely open source and free CBH is completely a hundred percent open source, a hundred percent free, a hundred percent Apache. So a year from now, when it comes time to renew with us, if the customer is not happy with our management suite is not happy with our support data, they can, they can go to work >>And works. People are afraid >>Of all they can go to ibm. >>The data, you can take the data that >>You don't even need to take the data. You're not gonna move the data. It's the same system, the same software. Every, everything in CDH is Apache. Right? We're not putting anything in cdh, which is not Apache. So a year from now, if you're not happy with our service to you and the value that we're providing, you can switch. There is no lock in. There is no lock. And >>Your, your argument would be the switching costs to >>The only lock in is happiness. The only lock in is which >>Happiness inspection customer delay. Which by, by the way, we just wrote a piece about those wars and we said the risk of lockin is low. We made that statement. We've got some heat for it. Yes. And >>This is sort of at scale though. What the, what the people are saying, they're throwing the tomatoes is saying if this is, again, in theory at scale, the customers are so comfortable with that, the console that they don't switch. Now my argument was >>Yes, but that means they're happy with it. That means they're satisfied and happy >>With it. >>And it's more economical for them than going and hiding people full-time on stuff. Yeah. >>So you're, you're always on check as, as long as the customer doesn't feel like Oracle. >>Yeah. See that's different. Oracle is very, Oracle >>Is like different, right? Yeah. Here it's like Cisco routers, they get nested into the environment, provide value. That's just good competitive product strategy. Yes. If it they're happy. Yeah. It's >>Called open washing with >>Oracle, >>I mean our number one core attribute on the company, the number one value for us is customer satisfaction. Keeping our people Yeah. Our customers happy with the service that we provide. >>So differentiate in the product. Yes. Keep the commanding lead. That's the strategist. That's the, that's what's happening. That's your goal. Yes. >>That's what's happening. >>Absolutely. Okay. Co-founder of Cloudera, Always a pleasure to have you on the cube. We really appreciate all the hospitality over the beer and a half. And wanna personally thank you for letting us sit in your office and we'll miss you >>And we'll miss you too. We'll >>See you at the, the Cube events off Swing by, thanks for coming on the cube and great to see you and congratulations on all your success. >>Thank >>You. And thanks for the review on Modern Warfare three. Yeah, yeah. >>Love me again. If there any gaming stuff, you know, I.