>> Live from San Francisco. It's theCUBE covering Google Cloud Next 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. (electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back everyone. Live here in San Francisco it's theCUBE's coverage of Google Cloud and their big conference Google Next #GoogleNext18. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. Our next guest is Adam Seligman, Vice President of Developer Relations at Google. Man, making it all happen, keeping the trains on time, keeping everyone motivated, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks, glad to be here. >> So, first of all, take a step back, what is your job at Developer Relations? Are you herding cats, are you feeding them great code, are you overseeing a big team? Google's been very big on open-source, you've been part of the code program going back many many years. Google's always been a steward of open-source and developers are just devouring open-source in a big way right now. What's your job? >> I look after Developer Relations. There's around 20, 22 million developers in the world and we want to make every single one of them successful and build cool things, learn new technology, be part of community. That's something that's super important. I try to rally all of Google to sort of stand for developers. >> One of the big trends we're seeing now at open-source is that it's becoming such a good norm. I remember the days when I was getting into the business back in the late '80s, early '90s. Open-source, we'd kind of steal some code here and it kind of was radical. It's so normal now, and you start to see the clean, upstream etiquette, upstream projects, everyone's contributing, co-creating for a common good, monetizing downstream has been really well defined. There's some examples of probably where that could be better but for the most part, I think people are generally seeing a positive contribution. That's a community dynamic. How do you go to the next level for developers? Because this has turned out to be quite an opportunity to one: learn, meet new people, learn new skills and take advantage of some new technologies. How do you foster that community? What are you guys doing? Because no-one wants vendors to put their fingers in these upstream projects (laughs) but they're super important, they're all participating. What's the formula? How is that evolving? How do you see that? >> Google's been an open-source for maybe 20 years. Some big contributions early days, things like GCC, foundational compiler technology. And we have whole businesses that build around open-source, Chrome on the Web, Android for mobile, and now we see kubernetes in cloud and TensorFlow and AI and new things like Knative and Istio, so I think there's a course there where open-source can really shape whole ecosystems and create a lot of opportunity and a lot of innovation. And I think the challenge in all that is to do it in a really healthy, positive, community-centric way. And I think that's some real learning we've had in the last couple of years, is great leaders like Sarah Novotny have really helped guide us and her interface with open-source communities and foster the right kind of community interactions, and that's a big focus. We're trying to bring that here also. >> So, you had a keynote coming up, I know you got a hard stop and we want to try and get as many questions as we can. But I want to ask you, what are you going to be talking about at your keynote, what's the topic? 'Cos this is a, I won't say coming-out party for Google Cloud in particular, but clearly setting a couple stakes in the ground on what's going on. Enterprise focus, checking the boxes, table stakes are being met. And real tech: high performance, large-scale, really a good developer environment. What are you going to talk about at the keynote? >> Well, I think customers like HSBC and Target and others are coming to us, not for table stakes, they're coming to us for what's next. They're coming to us for massive-scale kubernetes, they're coming to us for AI. So, I think that the introductions we've had so far, things like the Cloud Services Platform, Istio 1.0, Knative, it really shows a bright future of service and AI-driven applications. What we're going to talk in the developer keynote, tomorrow, in day three, is really three themes: innovation, openness and open-source, and then that community theme that we were just talking about. And one area of innovation that we're going to talk about is Melody Meckfessel, who I think you talked to earlier, is going to talk about our approach to Cloud Build and integrated toolchains. We have a lot of technology we're going to open up in the DevOps space. But it's really a mentality, and this is the thing that I think is really needed coming to Google, is it's not just about pushing code down the waterfall to production, it's about building services for users and building services that the developers consume. And really flowing from code right out to running services, and then when you're done, the service is a turn on for everybody, you start routing traffic to it, you run canaries. So, it's a big step-change in how we think about continuous delivery and DevOps, we really want to land that in the keynote tomorrow. >> So I got to give some props to my partner, John Furrier, in 2010, John, you said, "Data is the new development kit." It was a while ago, and it's turned out, in my view anyway, to be true, but, Adam, it's also changed the profile of the developer. Data hackers, statisticians, mathematicians, artists. And so it's changed the way in which we think about a developer. I wonder, if you could talk about that, in terms of, how that's changed Developer Relations? >> Yufeng Guo is going to do a section AI in the keynote and he does these videos on YouTube that literally millions of people watch about how to get started on machine learning. And he's got a great line in there, which I think is attributed to him, that says, "AI is programming with data." And so I think we're in a world where all this data of user interactions and event streams and interactive things and mobile applications, we now have a lot of data to program the world on. And I think it's an incredible opportunity for developers. But the flip side, if we just restrict it to a couple thousand data scientists, it doesn't open up the world to everyone. So I think beyond that 20 million, what are the next 20 million we could pull in with AutoML? The next 20 million that can do SQL queries and can use BigQuery and do ML in BigQuery? So that's the vision of opening it up to more people, more developers. >> And the democratization of software, I mean, it's interesting, that's my background in software engineering, computer science, in the '80s you were called software engineering. Then it became software developer, then it became a software hacker. Now we're hearing words like software artisan. I interviewed Aparna, she said, "You don't need three PhDs, three degrees "in computer science, to do development anymore." The aperture's widening, big-time, because now craft is coming back to development. Because a lot of these abstractions, both on the business and tech side, are enabling different personas to come in. >> It's not legacy development anymore, it's heritage development, right?. (John laughs) I love that developers have the freedom to define their own titles and define their own tools they want to work with, and do a mix of the old and the new, and mix it up. So I think it's really important that we're not too narrow in how we define people and you don't have to be this tall to ride the ride, we really welcome everybody in to be a part of the community and if your entrance to ML is AutoML, but then eventually you graduate to TPUs, that's just fantastic. >> And how about crypto developers? They've exploded with innovation, what do you see in there? >> I could just go back to security, I think every company is really wrestling with security right now. How do they get two-factor everywhere? How do they stop phishing? How do they keep their employees safe? How do they have shielded VMs at every level of security? And it's a challenge to get developers to think about security sometimes. It's the operators that have to live with it, and so understanding your dependencies, way back up with developers are like, "Oh, I'll just use this library, "and I'll just use this library." How do you ensure you're using trusted dependencies back there, you don't have vulnerabilities you're introducing by taking dependencies in other codes. So I think there's a lot of education and best practice to share with developers to get them to care about security. >> My final question, I know you got to go. I just want to get it out there, years ago, when David and I used to hear on theCUBE, people come on, "We want to win the developers," no, they're not winnable. You don't win developers, you earn trust and you earn relationships and they might work with you and enjoy the services that they might provide to them. So I always kind of used to poo-poo that. But now with the Cloud you're seeing again, more range with developers. So, how do you keep developers happy? That might be a better question, because in order to earn and have a relationship with people who are going to be contributing IP and building IP, how do you keep harmonious relations? How do you keep people happy if you have things, like technical debt bothers people and people are like, "Oh, technical debt," you know, shipping codes, times. How do you think about that because keeping people happy is a broad answer, but in general, what's your view on keeping developers happy, harmonious, loving, working together, doing the things they love to do? >> It's a little different at Google, it's an interesting place, because there's never an "us and them" with developers, this is a company with tens of thousands of engineers on staff, most of the senior leadership team have an engineering background. So it's more like we live in the community of developers, my engineers are all over the world, living in developer communities. And so I think it really does matter how we show up and how we interact. But we sort of live it every day. So I don't think we have a hill to climb, so much as get to developers, I think we just have to have a really clear narrative, and then a really keen ear to listen to what they need and that's what I'm trying to orient them around. >> Listening, I think that's a great answer, listening. "What do you want?" you know, "What's important to you?" And then you have that perspective yourselves. Yeah, I mean, we're sort of a developer-centric company and I think the important thing is we put them at the center of everything we do, I use the word with my team, it's empathy. We have empathy for developers, you know, they have great jobs, great opportunities, but also great challenges, and as humans, can't we have empathy for them. >> I was hosting a panel one time, a night event, it was all out of fun, bunch of nerds on there were talking tech, getting on the hood, talking developers, all this stuff, range of questions, and one guy introduced himself as the, "I'm the CTO, I'm the Chief Toy Officer." (Adam laughs) Because we play with technology then we turn it into product. And you guys brought a lot of toys out here with Google, all this open-source. >> And then if we can amplify that for all the amazing talent that's in the world, at Google I/O, we host the developers' student clubs from Indonesia, and these young Indonesian women are teaching other college kids how to do android development. So, if we could bring that kind of magic to all of our assets, to the Cloud assets, I think there's this amazing, receptive community out there that could give us a bunch of whole new ideas that we don't just get in South of Market, San Francisco. >> It's inspiring to see people build things with open-source, pay it forward, contribute upstream, be part of a community, this is what it's all about, Developer Relations. Congratulations, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, so glad to be here, thanks guys! >> This is theCUBE paying it forward with content here from Google Next, all out in the open, co-creating with Google, Google's team, Google's customers, the best engineers, the best talent here at Google Cloud, I'm with theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, thanks for watching. Stay with us, more coverage after this short break. (electronic music)