>> Narrator: Live from Vancouver, Canada. It's the Cube. Covering OpenStack Summit, North America, 2018. Brought to you by Redhat, the OpenStack foundation and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Cube. I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host John Troyer, and your watching the Cube, the worldwide leader in tech coverage. Happy to welcome back back to the program, Arturo Suarez, who is with Canonical, program director. Haven't have him on for a couple of hours, Arturo, thanks for joining me again. >> Thanks for having me. >> Alright and David Safaii who is the CEO of Trilio Data. We introduced your company to our community last year at the show in our backyard in Boston, so, thanks for joining us here in beautiful Vancouver. >> Thanks for having me again, good to see ya. >> Alright so, David, let's start with you. It's you know, a year since we talked to you, you know data management, absolutely, you know, such a hot space. Bring us into that update as to your company, what's happening in OpenStack and lets get into it from there. >> Sure. It's been an exciting year since I seen you last, you know. I think part of it's been the evolution and the maturity of this ecosystem that we're seeing. More business units are now moving production workloads into this environment. So the call to Trilio has really taken place. A lot of the times your seeing these cloud teams having to scramble to find the proper data protection solution. Trilio being a cloud native backup solution, you know, for this environment, its just a logical selection. >> Yeah, its one of those things I scratch my head, maybe you can explain to me, is, remember back in I was like, when we did virtualization, it was like took a little while before we had a good backup, you know, solution for there. When we go to cloud its like, wait, oh wait, lets not forget that there are things like security and backup. Why does it take a little bit while for that to kind of catch up into the market and have good solutions? >> So if you think about it this way, when people start this journey, right, the initial intent a lot of the time is to have some stateless workloads. We know that's not the case. Perception and reality. And your going to see it in the container market as well. So that's kind of the evolution that you see, that's kind of the draw that we see. >> Okay, Arturo, explain to us how Canonical fits. >> So, obviously Canonical powers more OpenStack than anyone else does. So OpenStack foundation survey would like to say it. But that's a fact, that's what I'll write. So, we're happy to partner with Trilio. We've always been very keep to accommodate the ecosystem in our story. Trilio vault matches very well our idea of having better economics as well for the data center. And it opens up OpenStack, not only for the original goal of OpenStack, like the hyper scalers or the scale out applications, right, which are cloud native if you want and are born on OpenStack. And OpenStack is born for them right, for that type of application. But now it opens that to a wide range of existing, I wouldn't call it legacy, but, you know what I mean like old applications that are really not going to be refreshed, you know. You'll only refresh that many applications year after year. 10% of your applications, 15% if you have a good devops team. Those still are suffering lock in from being in that virtualization world, or not even there, right. And with OpenStack and the addition of Trilio as a backup DR solution, just somebody provide what a pet VM needs right. So somebody opens up to a large real state of a data center to be accommodated in OpenStack seamlessly. >> It's great, Chris, here at OpenStack Summit this year, kind of the customers your seeing, someone said to me the other day that, you know the people here this year are people with mortgage to pay. And they meant that in a complimentary way, in that they're not like the cloud astronauts or they're not arguing about the philosophy of what is a true cloud. They actually have business to do. So I don't know, your talking about some of what your seeing here at this show and you know the kinds of people or maybe, you know, who are the folks that are using or kind of folks that are using Trilio today? >> Yeah and I think the conversation has been, the high quality conversations, higher caliber conversation where its a lot of day two conversations that have taken place, so, it's been engaging. People need to act, they need to move. They've got these fabulous clouds that's slicing and dicing, they're expanding in every which way possible. Now they say, alright, we have to codify this. You know the journey to the cloud doesn't have to be painful. And that's one of the great things that Canonicals done well, right. Build, operate, manage - here's your cloud, we're going to stand it up, you know, it's everything you need. Now with Trilio its not "Can I add back up to it?", like fries, it's just not like that. It's adding data protection to codify that and again that's why we're seeing these people start, are coming. They're asking that kind of, they're asking that question. >> Are you mostly talking to folks over in the enterprise space? I mean with OpenStack right, a lot of the conversations in the carrier space, they have some slightly different needs. Or how is that working for you? >> No, it's broadened. I'd say our customer base is everything from manufacturing to receiving financial services all over the world, adopt OpenStack. So, again it goes to the testament of adopting and building much easier than every before and the economics are big benefit. >> In terms of building on top of OpenStack or you know so directly with the APIs. And OpenStack has a number of components all with APIs and component, so how is that relationship been working with Canonical and the state of both Canonical's OpenStack as well as the standard, you know, getting used to the standard parts of the OpenStack stack. >> Yeah so we certify ourselves across the distribution, but you know, part of this is a seamless integration through leveraging juju charms for example. The lifecycle management of that cloud. So whether your going through an upgrade process or staying up a new cloud, Trilio just fits hand and glove with Canonical. >> Yeah at the end of the day APIs are APIs, OpenStack are OpenStack, right. That is very well defined. It's how you build it. When you build it to just take a picture of it and have an OpenStack up and running, or, when you build it to have an OpenStack that's going to be in your data center for ten years, for 20 years, right, that is a credible data center right. So that is our main difference. The OpenStack and the end of the day, the API is just consumable just for us as well as for the other guys, its exactly the same API. We don't modify, not everybody, right, but we do not modify anything from OpenStack. It's pure appstring OpenStack, right, there's no real difference there. >> Okay, what about I think service providers would be key market for this, how does that play in for both of you? >> I mean the service provider market of course is a big adapter of OpenStack and then now your seeing also with NFV environment, the rapid adoption there. It's been an important add to the OpenStack cloud if you think about how do I recover my configurations in that environment, so. >> Exactly and we mentioned before like right, the expansive real estate even in the world of service providers when you move out of the core, right, and they're challenging SLAs, right. So DR is effectively and that data protection as well because the VNFs that their running are effectively managing data that is prone to be protected, specially you know, in countries in Europe for instance, with the GDPR etc., you really need to have accountability of what data is in your data center without, you know, taking into account the economics of having an extra data center there, right. So the DR and data protection elements are key to the cloud strategy of service providers, right. >> What are folks looking at is cross cloud strategies and backup. Like what is the target right, I'm assuming either, cross data center or also up to the public cloud. How are people looking at that? Either one. >> So we see it, as far as the backend store of the target, we really have certified ourselves across any backup target. Within Canonical they're using self storage. If they added benefit of geo replication, right, so the DR story starts to evolve there. So site goes down, you have geo replication, you have Trilio there to spin backup that other site back up again. Relative to the public cloud, you know, as the hybrid world continuously evolves, you know, we're ready for that. We have qualified against S3 for example. But no ones banging down the door just at this moment. I think a lot of people just need to get the blocking and tackling done and leverage really the assets that they have, to make the most out of it, get the ROI there. And then we'll see if the demand evolves. >> So the beauty is to have the choice right, the freedom of choice. Which is what some of the private infrastructure software doesn't allow you to do. Like this is a one thing you can eat today, right. So that freedom of choice, whether you want to put that in a public cloud, if it's security compliant and what not, or you want to have that in another region or replicated somewhere else, another storage backend that is colder and cheaper and you know, so. That freedom of choice is a great asset. >> Arturo, what are you looking forward to in terms of the evolution of OpenStack storage and data capabilities? >> So, OpenStack is already opened up for absolutely everything, right. Storage in fact in OpenStack was, this is my 15th OpenStack, so I've been following it from the very very beginning right. So the storage in OpenStack is actually was the project that was mature first... >> Well I didn't want to start the question off with well, OpenStack storage is kind of done right. But... >> But it is right. At the end of the day when you look at all the existing, more legacy type of a storage filers, already have an integration with OpenStack. OpenStack made a turn few years ago, again, I'm telling my old stories of OpenStack, but when we started doing Cinder. And the Cinder drivers would apply in that to Neutron and the Neutron plugins now for network. But the Cinder drivers actually are a very easy way to plug in literally any other storage solution that you might find out there. And the beauty of it is that you can, you don't have to choose one. You can have many storage back ends in your data center right. So that is there. And then it will be, as we talked before, it be just a decision on the per use cases. Canonical will be part of that. Canonical will have a solution ready for each of those use cases by enabling partners. And obviously there will be some of them that will be more adequate to with the compliance and security terms, right. >> David, I'd love you to follow up on that. So there is the companies that have gone through the alphabet from A through Queens, and have the bumps and bruises. What's it like being a startup, getting into the ecosystem you know more recently. What's the opportunities? >> Yeah, I mean, I think for us the customers are at various points in their journeys right. So we have be able to qualify whether your kilo or your on queens. And we have to be able to deliver a service that you know is rock solid. So that's an onus on us. To deliver all that, make sure it's bullet proof. So it takes a lot of work. But, the community's been great to work with, the customers view us as partners. And they're willing to work with you, which has been fantastic, you know. >> Okay. Want to give you both a final take aways from the event. David you want to start? >> Sure. So as I was saying before I think the conversations been high caliber conversations, right. It's been interesting for us, because if you think about back up and DR, data protection is actually a much broader term and I think it evolves. And I think we're on a great spot for it to evolve even further. We take a workload, a point in time, right, if the conversation becomes about workload mobility inside your cloud, I can move it to any part, and that's some of the conversations that we've had using back up for resource management, right, I want to move tenants from one availability zone to another availability zone. Or I'm standing up a new cloud. That's just part of the by product of backup and recovery. One of the things that we're actually, we're exploring and we'll give you guys a nice showcase of this in Berlin is that we'll be running scanners through our back ups. Doing more with points in time, to give your tenants and your customers the ability to go back to the best last known state, you know it's clean. All the patches, the configurations, the anti-virus type stuff. So this is going to be a great evolution it's going to be a great journey. Having the ability of being a startup gives us the flexibility and we can be nimble, where a legacy data protection has 30 year old code and they don't have that ability. So, it's been great. >> So as you know, following up on what David said, right, the flexibility of having a data protection solution finally on OpenStack, being able to compare and win against all the private cloud infrastructure is a great asset. The fact that OpenStack now you see is ready for prime because it gets less media attention its not shiny anymore it's not that interesting to talk about OpenStack. But everyone needs an OpenStack solution, right. The ecosystem landscape where come from the digital wars back in the day, we're not wasting time right there right. So it's more of a filling a need that OpenStack opens up for. And Trilio has done that very well in the data protection domain. >> It's been a really great relationship. >> Alright, David Safaii, Arturo Suarez, thank you so much for joining us again. And check out thecube.net. If you go to the site, not only can you search by events and by guest but if you put in keyword, for example, getting ready for this event, I typed OpenStack in and there were hundreds of interviews that we've done over the years, not only at this OpenStack summit, but many other shows that have talked about it. Go find them, poke around, you know, so much content to be able to dig in. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, back with a lot more coverage here at OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Thanks for watching the Cube. (Background music)

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Covering OpenStack Summit 2017. Brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, Red Hat, an additional ecosystem of support. >> I'm Stu Miniman here with my co-host, John Troyer, and this is SiliconANGLE media's theCUBE, worldwide leader in live tech coverage. Happy to welcome to the program startup CEO David Safaii, Trilio Data. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> Dave, first time on the program. New startup. Tell us a little bit about your background and what let to Trilio Data. >> Sure, sure, sure, sure. Well, first, thanks, excited to be here. Trilio data started a number of years ago, about 2013, and we had focused on what the problem was going to exist within cloud. Now, traditional backup vendors are not going to fulfill the requirements of cloud. The principles of cloud, of course, as you guys know, forever scalable, multi-tenant, self-service, all the things, all the good buzzwords. So the founders of the company started with those principles and started building out Trilio Data, and built it specifically for OpenStack, to begin. >> Cloud's supposed to be real simple. Couldn't it just take care of that canister stuff, multiple objects-- >> Everything's automated. >> Automated replication, everything. What's different about building for cloud specifically? I mean, OpenStack's core to what you're doing, maybe tease out how you ended up there. >> Yeah, sure. When you look at what we do and how we do it, I think is the interesting part. The traditional backup vendors think about a server or a single VM, or maybe just a bunch of files. We have a different approach. We talk about capturing the full environment. And that starts with the application blueprint for that tenant. So that's the app, OS, VM, configurations across the VMs. Security groupings, policies, metadata and data as a whole. So now, when you talk about recovery, recovery is fast. It happens instantaneously, as opposed to trying to stitch together these applications that now reside on the Cloud that have all these different components affiliated with it. I joined the group as CEO in 2014. Seeing the need that will exist within the OpenStack community. As folks start to codify their clouds, and the business units are saying, "All right, "we're ready to move our applications within the clouds." The business assurance needs that were going to pop up. Data protection absolutely is one of them. So that's what really excited me. >> One more question on the base tech. You talk about the application blueprint. Apps on the Cloud, more than just a VM. Do you handle things like the network configuration? Connection back to storage, and things like that? >> Everything for the tenant. The tenant manages the whole backup, and they can restore that whole environment. So you think about it as almost environmental capture per tenant. >> And are people typically backing up from one OpenStack cloud to another, from one OpenStack cloud, maybe to a public cloud? What are you seeing, the use cases? >> Good question. I think first and foremost, and it's kind of this crawl-walk-run scenario, right, everyone's looking to get their OpenStack clouds to a great and steady state. The larger folks have done that. They spent a lot of blood, sweat and tears to do that and they've got these great, elastic, scalable clouds. Recovery for us is, you can recover in place. You can recover in a different availability zone. You can recover into a different data center, or a different OpenStack cloud. And so as the story continues to evolve and emerge, we'll be showing off hybrid cloud data at AWS in the next quarter. And that will be a request from folks in time, as we start to look at hybrid cloud being one singular cloud, really. And then empowering these people to move workloads to and from is very interesting. Creates new problems, but you still need the ability to control and manage and start providing governance around a hybrid type of an environment. >> I think most of our audience is probably aware with some of the pain points that we've had with backup for a while. What are your early customers, what's exciting them? What can they do now that they didn't before? We know backup windows are long gone in the past, but what does this enable them to do that they couldn't? Why this solution rather than some of the other options out there? First, we are completely agentless. We're talking about environments of scale, and so to manage another agent, I mean, it's got to be painful. So we are agentless, which is fantastic. We are non-disruptive, so at any point in your OpenStack Journey, you can deploy us. And you can roll us out with using Ansible scripts, et cetera. We try and make that component very easy. And then again, it's empowering the tenant. Cloud's all about the tenant. Alleviating the pain for IT operations. Having, again, that full environmental capture, changes things. You don't have to worry about, I mean, you can replace files if need be, or folders, but IT operations don't have to worry about that anymore. >> I'm curious. As far as I know, there hasn't been an open source project to solve this kind of issue. Is there open source involved in your code, are you guys closed source? How does that fit of the OpenStack to what you're doing go? >> Good question. We first, actually, started with a specification called Raksha, that we put out there. We quickly closed-sourced it. We're built on open source, soup to nuts. But we did closed-source it because there's a need, there's a need for this solution today. We're big supporters of the community, we believe in community. But there's certain aspects that is required by the enterprise, and they need to move now, and they can't wait for projects to spin up. You're starting to see a couple of other similar projects appear, but as I said, the need is now. That's also part of the issue, is you're having all these overlapping projects that start to emerge. It's not helping the community. So, yeah. We're ready to deliver. >> And this is installed, this can be installed in a data center? Is that the delivery mechanism? >> Absolutely. It's downloadable. We're downloaded as a VM. As I said, we are agentless, so it's a small, little Python script that gets put on all your computer nodes. We appreciate scale. We work with telcos, all the way down to-- >> I was going to ask. OpenStack is many things to many people. It's not one market. So, as CEO, which markets are you looking at that are OpenStack adopters that you would like to be talking with? >> I think it's interesting, as you look at the landscape, not just by industry, but by geo, too, which has become interesting. Here, it's the large environments that are ready for data protection today. That really spans across financial services, to telco, et cetera. I think rest of world, if you start talking about data protection in governments, things that are happening in Europe, for example, they're a little more sensitive to the public cloud. This is the third coming of open source, right, so people are happy to build wherever they can. We're seeing, from a size perspective, deployments. The small guys are trying all over the place. South Africa, Japan, Australia, Latin America and Europe. Here it's a lot of the bigger folks, everywhere else, people are ready to jump into OpenStack. They're excited. >> So your product itself, couple things. Is it fully GA today? Anything you can share on number of customers, what state of deployment they're in, and maybe get into some of the go-to-market pieces as to how they roll that out. >> Yeah, I know, absolutely. So we are GA. As I mentioned, we were founded in 2013, but because this is enterprise software, it needs to be bulletproof, right? We wanted to wait. You get one shot to announce yourself. We went GA last year. Since that time, we've had a number, our installs right now is probably the 20-plus. As I said, the company's range, all over the place. Our go-to-market, really, is subscription-based model. Either the smaller end of the spectrum, number of VMs. 'Cause the smaller guys understand how many VMs they need to manage. Middle of the market, they know how much hardware they've purchased, so how many compute nodes you need to manage. And the larger end of the spectrum, we're hearing people say, "Look, I need to manage "10 petabytes, and I need protection for that." And so that's a different conversation for the much larger guys. As I mentioned before, some of these folks are looking to start, smaller folks, let's say in Europe, MSPs are starting to pop up again. Or the VARs that are evolving. And of course everyone's margin-sensitive, so we have a different tactic in our MSP program, where it's a consumption-based model. One of the great things about OpenStack is that people don't see us as vendor. It's a partnership. It's a clear partnership. And we want to empower people to use it from the MSP side as well as, you know, I talked to a bank the other day who said, "Look, we have OpenStack." "We don't talk about it, in size." "Now that I know that you exist, I get to bring "stateful information, do all these workloads, "we get to use more of OpenStack." So we become an enabler, really, for folks. >> Dave, you bring up the workloads. Anything particular you do for specific applications? OpenStack, you know, very diverse set of work cases. What do you do special for different workloads? What do your customers tend to be using from an application standpoint? >> That's a good question. It's image-level capture, so whatever is running within the image, so if you need application awareness, some of the databases. We'll manage Oracle, or MySQL or Postgres or whatever need be, and then some of the NoSQL market. We're sensitive to those applications that reside there. From the container market, if containers are sitting inside an image, that's fine, too. Containers don't need backup, per se, today, but they need DR, and so you should use us for that perspective. Same thing on the NFV side. NFV's a really exciting thing. You may not need backup, but you need DR. You lose a site, you need to get spun up. And it's not just about spinning up a VM. I need to get back to the configurations that I had before. 'Cause there's a lot of tweaking along the way, right? >> You're a private company, I understand. You've got investors there. There any concern from them in general, that they say, "Hey, we hear all these "various things about OpenStack." "Should that be a core piece of your business?" >> That's a good question. It's exciting for us because it's all been inbound, quite frankly. Just finding out that we exist, people are getting excited, so I think that our investors are excited about that, when I talk about 90% of the people are coming to us. As the model starts to evolve, data protection is one aspect today. If you think about what we do to recreate a point in time in the Cloud, you start talking about migration, upgrade cycles, managing all those sorts of things. Data protection evolves into resource management as you start bringing in the hybrid cloud scenario. Being able to recover wherever, whenever I want. And then it broadens into more business assurance. We start in OpenStack, we ride the data protection wave, we grow with the customer, we continue to provide great functionality, and then we branch out, also, with other clouds. 'Cause at the end of the day, cloud becomes this commoditized layer. It comes down to managing my workloads, my applications, when and where I want to. >> You spoke about the crawl-walk-run. Give us a little bit of the forward-looking, what should we expect from Trilio Data throughout the rest of the year? What are some of the big things that you're trying to knock down? >> Sure. Next quarter we're announcing GA with Amazon, the hybrid cloud from that perspective. We already talk hybrid clouds within multiple OpenStack clouds, but we'll have a public cloud from there. And first is managing just backup. From there, we're going to talk about rehydrating your application in a native format of that public cloud. So now it's taking that next step of that one single pane of glass, if you will, to get to that point. That's going to be the journey across this year. >> Dave Safaii, really appreciate you joining-- >> Thanks for having me. >> Sharing with our community. Everything with Trilio Data. John Troyer and I will be back. More coverage here from OpenStack Summit 2017. You're watching theCUBE. (energetic music)