>> from Palo Alto, California It's the Cube covering the EM Where women transforming technology twenty nineteen. Brought to you by V. M. Where. >> Hi Lisa Martin with the Cube on the ground at the end. Where. Palo Alto, California For the fourth Annual Women Transforming Technology Even W squared. Excited to welcome back to the Cube. Kathy Chou, VP of R and D. Operations and central services at work. Cappy. It's a pleasure to have you back. It's one of you will be back. So you and I saw each other this morning. Big hug. This is one of my favorite events to be at, and I'm proud to be here with the cute because this this authentic community of women is unlike anything that I've really seen or felt in a long time. Fourth annual. I know it's grown over the last year. What do you What are some of your thoughts, even just walking in the doors this morning? Well, it's funny. It is the fourth annual and I I've been toe all four. The very first time I came, I was not a B M or employee, and I fell in love with the company. The campus because it was the very first time. And every single time I come to one of these events, I either meet someone or multiple people better fantastics or learn multiple things that will help me do what I need to do and I will tell you, and I'm not just saying cause you're here. But last year when I met you, I just felt like there was an instant spark. And like you say at these conferences, don't you feel it's safe? You can. You could be authentic. You could be who you want to be. You could be vulnerable, right? And as we can learn with each other, we can share what we need to work on. You move on and we can also Peter chests a little bit right for stuff that we've done well that sharing is so critical. Eye all the women that I've spoken to today we look at even our own career. Trajectories are looking at a lot of the statistics of the loan numbers that women technology where where is the attrition happening? What's happening in and grade school in middle school when girls, you know between seven and twelve years old, way have to help each other build up cos it's just and I think there's no better >> way than sharing stories and cheer point that means being vulnerable. I think vulnerability is one of the best price you can exhibit, period. But it used truly conceit and feel the impact Hearing. >> As you've said, you've seen that over the last four years that this is really an authentic community in every >> sense of the word. Absolutely. And, you know, you mentioned quite a few things that I'd like to talk about. So first, is these >> young. Let's start first with diversity. Okay, I know a lot of people do talk aboutthe. They think of gender diversity or ethnic diversity. Diversity of the capital. >> Dia's much broader, right? It's okay. Diversity of experience, education, you know, geography, seniority, right. There's all different types of diversity. But if we do hope, focus in a little bit on young girls. Right? Because you think about that. I was just in the I wish conference in Cork, Ireland. Stop back. Yeah. And what was amazing about that was so this is all of Court County. They had all of the what they called secondary school girls every single one of them for two days at this conference. But they got to listen to speakers from all over the world to give them that confidence to stay in, because statistics are when they're in primary school or middle school. Right? Girls say I want to be a computer scientist. I wantto do this techie thing. I'm gonna do Sam with them when they go to high school there, given all these messages like, you can't do it and you don't look like a computer scientist, right? And then all of a sudden it gets It becomes because in her head and it really does affect our confidence. And then, sad to say, years and years ago, when I graduated from college, there was only nine percent of the women were mechanical engineers. Sad to say today, that number is not challenged much. Do something just conferences like these that give us the courage to be better mentors and sponsors of those that will come after us. >> I agree. I think that it's and in some cases it seems like it's so simple where we make I don't think we're making this so hard, but I think that having the opportunity of a community to just have okay like minded people in terms of experiences that they shared well, how did you get through this barrier of, for example, you know, really kind of dissecting to your point diversity with a capital B. There's so many layers to that. What does that mean? How do we achieve it? I mean, if you look at a lot of the statistics companies that have you say females, uh, on the executive staff are like twenty seven percent more profitable. Yes, the amount of oven of reinvesting of income that women do back into the community. Their family's one of the things, Joy said this morning in her keynote joyful Fulham. We need him saying that, >> right? So is it looking at women and people of color as the underrepresented majority that that was absolutely spot on? I absolutely >> thought it was spot on this well, and you know, if you think about it, think about these experiences. You know again about diversity. There's a new dawn. It's a new phrase. But intersectionality is the word, which means, you know Okay, you're a woman. I'm a woman. I'm an Asian woman, But I'm also a woman that lived on the East Coast. I went to these sorts of schools. I had these types of experiences. So what it means is everyone bring something to the table. So if you really think about diversity now, we'LL hear this talk about inclusion. That's kind of the big word. And I've I've actually witnessed this myself on my own team because if you look at my direct staff on paper, when you look at them, they look very diverse. But actually diversity. That's like the tip of the iceberg. What you see is only the little piece when you bring down, get to those deeper layers. You realize, >> really how diverse team Miss Wright of spiritual >> diversity, experiential all of that and by including and created a inclusive environment were able to get the most out of diversity. And I think that's how you do it, because I thought about this. When you single out groups, you're not being inclusive, right? That's a good point. So I think the goal is to get what we can call the model. What we think is the majority, which is the minority to embrace the underrepresented majority and >> your perspective? How do you think V m? Where is doing on that? I was talking with Betsy said earlier, and some other folks and learned that the eggs I don't know how far down this goes, but at least execs are actually their bonuses are related to our tied to diversity and inclusion. That's a huge kind of bold statement that a company like the Mars making, not just to the tech industry, but every industry. Where do you think the emperor is on this journey of really identifying diversity and inclusion and actually starting to realise the positive impact? >> Yes. So first of all, I think you said something earlier. This is a It's an epidemic situation. OK, in that I do tell me, almost in every industry, there isthe right entertainment manufacturing, high tech, legal, professional, whatever way, there's an issue with diversity, and you're absolutely right. The peace and above our bonuses air tied to diversity, inclusion the awareness of the, um, where is second of them. The interesting thing is, there's no silver bullet. If it were that easy, we would've solved it. So what? It iss. It's one of those things where I say it takes a village and it's little things like talk about inclusion earlier, right? Hey, when you have a meeting, make sure everyone's voices voices are heard. Doesn't matter who it is. I don't care if it's a woman and under represent minority or white male. It doesn't matter. You shouldn't it? It shouldn't right. Everyone should be heard. And I was just giving a breakout talk about when you increase. Inclusion will drive more innovation. And that's my job as a leader of six hundred folks in an RD organization is to create that culture that allows people to have confidence, to take risks, to be vulnerable, authentic and to innovate right and to do new things. And if I can create that culture of inclusion, it will drive those business results. >> I couldn't agree more Tell me about like since we spoke last year. I love that driving inclusion to drive innovation. What are some of the things that you've actually seen as outcomes? Maybe just for your team as well as your own expertise as a manager? >> Yes. So I've been with him where for two and a half years, and when I first came Basically my team was a compilation of three separate teams, so each of them traditional silo new themselves in their own style but did not understand the power of the team across. So at that time, no one team was greater than one hundred people. Okay, let's say now imagine a mighty force of six hundred strong marching in the same direction, trying to do things together. One of the things that we're trying to do is start to build platforms across our organization. And what are the commonalities? That that's the difference is what commonalities across our teams so that we can drive that innovation much more effectively and efficiently. And so those are some of the things that we're doing have another fun story to tell me. Everything that I do to try to create an inclusive environment, just have opportunities for team members to meet each other. It's a simple assed. Hey, I don't know. Lisa. Lisa, what do you do? Oh, my gosh. I have a project that might need your help. I don't know how many times when we were working in the silos would enter calling someone outside our team to get the expert advice when it was on her own. And so we had one event when we had two people that sat next to each other. They didn't know each other at all. One needed some machine learning expertise. The other one was in machine learning enthusiast Fast. They came together. They have now built a patent pending piece of micro service called instead ML. That's so, uh, that's what happens when people when you're included >> and you think, Why is it so difficult? In some cases, technology is sort of sort of fuels that right because we get so used to being I could do everything from here >> on the phone from an airplane from the hotel from home, from or ever so we get more >> used to being less communicative. Absolutely right, Tio. Let's actually let's let's go back to the olden days where there were, You know, there was no device and phoniness and actually have a conversation because to your point, suddenly are uncovering. Oh my gosh. All of these skill sets are here. What if we did nothing for years? >> You're speaking my language. Eso You're absolutely right. But there's this. They used to be this rule that's a new one you wanted to communicate to someone. You have to tell them something seven times, >> right, because they're busy doing other times on the age of social media, they say. Now it's eleven times. Oh, great. And how I got exactly. So how often have you seen people who are sitting like this and they're >> communicating with each other? Be attacks and they're sitting right here. Why, it's >> important to go back old school. By the way, I think I'm old school. >> Whenever I want to pick up the phone, talk to my kids. It's on the phone. I don't care if they're, uh, ready for me to talk >> to her, and I just called them. It's because when you're innovating, it's not just the mind, it's the heart. >> And when you catch those human relationships, right is what makes the innovation stick. It makes you want to do more. It makes you want to achieve greater heights. Then you would have cause you're invested. You see, when it's an academic exercise, it's like check the box. But when you're invested in your hearts and you I feel like I can't let Lisa down, believe me, you're going to get more in depth and more advanced innovation. >> So with that and kind of the empathy approach in love to get your perspectives on a I, we talk about it all the time at every event that we go to on the Cube globally. And there's different schools of thought. Aye, aye is fantastic. It's phenomenal. It's it's becoming new standard, even a baby boomers known to some degree what it is. Yes, then there's the It's taking jobs away yet, But he's going to create new jobs. Yes, and there's the whole ethics behind this morning. Joy really kind of showed us a lot of the models and facial recognition at big companies that are better being built with bias. But one of the things I think that I hear resoundingly at events is it's going to be a combination of humans and machines. Yes, because machines can learn a lot. But it's that heart that you just mentioned in that empathy that comes from the human. So do you see those two as essential forces coming together is a. I continues to grow and take over the world. >> It's essential. Like you say. Technology is very How do we sit? Neutral. Okay, If you put it in front of a bad actor, it becomes bad. If you put it in front of a good actor, it becomes good. Okay, so technology is neutral, right? So now the goal is how do >> we ensure that we Khun tamp down the bad actors, people who want to use it for bad? And >> by the way, I am a fundamental believer that there are some jobs that should be automated. >> I mean, come on, some of the And by the way, things >> in the health industry. When you have big data and you've got a lot of things, you have to process a lot of information so we could be more accurate on things. Um, there other examples of if it's not in check, it can go right, right. Where will Over reliance on machines. Unfortunately, the seven. Thirty seven max eight is an example of it being too smart, right, and that >> you needed the human to actually adjust. So now I think also kind of combining a lot of the topics that we talked about. We need to train our children to understand that this technology is here to stay and with each and every one of them, how can they take that wonderful technology and use it for good? And I think that's the whole that's peace around inclusion. That's the peace around, building confidence in these young people and being examples. And so we need more people like joy out there so that she can. She has now raised this flag up saying, Hey, did you realize this >> happen? We need more young people. By the way, she's very young person. I'm >> totally impressed with what she's been able to do in here great for years, very, very inspiring. But if we all did a >> little bit of what joy did, we could change the world. >> Absolutely. The accountability factor and the social responsibility is so important. I was impressed with her on many levels, but one of them was the impact that she's already making with with Microsoft, IBM, uh, and actually starting to impact facial recognition a. I based on the research that she's done and show them Hey, you've got some problems here. So she's She's kind of at that intersection of your point neutral technology, good actors, bad actors. Maybe it's not good or bad. It's just Well, this is the data that we have. And it's training the models to do this. Oh, the but the accountability in the responsibility that it appears that a Microsoft and IBM face plus plus and even Amazon that she said, Hey, guys, look at how far off your models are. It sounds like these companies are actually starting to take some accountability. Civility for >> that? Yes, well, I think she proved it in our talk because last year, right, the numbers were in the eighty eighty percent tiles, and now they're up to ninety five. So you know, she's saying, by kind >> of being that lightning rod on this issue, one person could make this amount of change. Imagine if all was just a fraction of what she did, right? I mean, I think, and again, I feel very because I'm older and I have my own children just inspiring this generation, too. We could build up more joys in this world. >> So you have four boys. Yes. How are you inspiring them to finally become good humans, but also to look at the technology, the opportunities that it creates to be inclusive why it's important that some of the lessons that even parted on your boys >> Yes, first of all, I've one thing that's really >> important to me is I want them to accept whoever their partner will be for whatever they want to do. So if their partner wants to stay home and then you support them, if they want to work and go, do you support them? But just be supportive, be that partner, whatever that is, that's really important. >> The other thing is, I think just >> my husband and I are excellent examples of how that isthe, because he's an orthodontist and I've got a busy high tech job. I'm traveling a lot. My husband does more than his fair share of the household duties, and we split things pretty evenly. So I hope they've seen witness. It's not just talk, it's action and that this can actually work. And fortunately, I'm >> boys are a little older now because if you begin in the beginning, I thought, Oh, working. I don't >> know how these boys are going to turn out right, but three of them are college age and older, and they really turned into some fantastic children. The youngest is on his path as well as a junior in high school. And, you know, and I also see the type of friends that they make and how they treat women and other people that are different from them, and it just makes me very proud. >> Think the world needs more? Kathy Chow's I really dio Are you going off to see Ashley Judd? Her? What? Some of the things that you're looking >> forward to hearing her talking. Well, it's funny. I just came from a VP session. She is I again. You see someone right on the screen and you see him as an actor and you heard about Time's up and her speech and that sort of thing. But way had, but how were we just answered? Questions. She is so thoughtful, so connected, so well spoken communicates in a way that really touches you. She's another one of those lightning rides. I think w t, too, didn't excellent job of getting English speakers this year. Uh, and it's very different from joy. It's much more from a from her view, in her mind went in arts, and Joyce was much more from a technical aspect. But messages are the same, right? It's to be inclusive, understanding, embrace diversity and be authentic. You >> inclusive animators. Kathy is so great to have you back on the Cube. And Charlie, I know we could keep chatting, but we thank you so much of your time. We can't wait for next year. Wait. Excellent. Thank you for the Cuban Lisa Martin. You're >> watching the show from women Transforming Technology, fourth annual somewhere. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: From the VMware Campus in Palo Alto, California It's the CUBE. Covering Women Transforming Technology >> I'm Lisa Martin with the CUBE and we are on the ground in Palo Alto at VMware headquarters with the third annual Women Transforming Technology event. Excited to be speaking with Kathy Chou, the VP of R&D Operations and Central Services from VMware. Kathy, nice to meet you. >> Nice to meet you, as well. >> So, third annual Women Transforming Technology event. Sold out within hours. It was standing room only in the keynote this morning. We got to hear from Laila Ali. So inspiring. What a strong female, who used the word purpose a lot during her talk this morning. You're a mom of four boys. You've been a female in tech for a long time, now. What is it that has kept you in tech and pursuing a career in technology as a leader? >> Well, I have been in tech for over 25 years. And it has been an absolute amazing journey. From early career to mid career to now, I'm going to say mid-to-late career, it's just a passion that's I've had. When I was a young girl, I was just good at math and science. And I pursued that passion and ended up with a mechanical engineering degree. And there are many steps along the way where I was getting discouraged. "Why do you want to do this tech thing? "You should maybe drop out, do something else." But I'm so glad I stuck with it. And really, as you mentioned, the four boys. I want to be an example for my sons because I want them to understand there can be women with all sorts of talents. And if they happen to find someone who is technical and wants to do something in this world or do something in hi-tech or management or whatever that is, that they support them in every way, shape, or form. >> How have you gotten the coveted or sought-after work-life balance? What are some of you tips and tricks we can learn from? >> Well, first of all, I call it work-life integration. Because it's really not a balance. You've got to integrate it. And one of the things I've also ... First thing, I've chosen companies that really believe in that. VMware is a company that really believes in this bringing your authentic self to work and making sure that you can integrate your work with your life. And you need to have that balance. In fact, I do a career journey. And when I talk about my career journey, there's above line, below line. And above the line is the work stuff, and below the line is the life stuff. And you need to make sure that they're equally full. Because I believe that if you have a very, very full and busy life outside of work, it'll actually make you a better employee. So I encourage my folks, as a leader now, I'm finally a leader and I manage a team, that if folks have to go and do something in the middle of the day, doctor's appointment, do something with the kid, go do it. Because as long as you get your job done, you can integrate both work and life. >> Lisa: I love that. I think you're absolutely right, that it isn't about ... It's integration. They have to work together. So, from your career in mechanical engineering, what were some of the things that ... Were you just sort of born with an innate, "I'm really interested in this," in terms of keeping your head down and focused and getting into a fairly male-dominated industry and field? Was it just sort of that innate, that you were born with, "Hey I like this. "Yeah, I'm in a male-dominated field, but I don't care?" >> Yeah, it kind of was. Because, you know, my love ... So I had two focus areas in mechanical engineering. One was material science. I just loved material science. And so I ended up working for my first job out of Stanford was Instron Corporation which was a materials testing firm. My other love was robotics. So, I had actually worked for GM on the production line and helped program some of those early robots. And so, I was able to combine those two passions when I ended up going to Instron and developed their robotics line. Now, here's the thing. As I'm going through all of this, am I looking around and realizing, "My goodness, there are no other females here?" That was the case. But my passion for learning new things, and doing something, and making a difference seemed to outstrip the fact that there weren't females. And now that, as I'm getting, again, more advanced in my career, I'm realizing that I have a duty to play as a role-model to say "Hey, you can do it. "You can have a family. "You can have a great job. "You can have a great life outside of work. "You know, as long as you integrate all of those things." So I think with that perseverance, that's how you can get through. >> And I think that there is such a need for those role models because like we were talking about Laila Ali this morning who clearing was born with this natural confidence, which not a lot of women are, >> Kathy: Yes. >> Not a lot of people are, in general. So, I think it's really important that you've recognized you're in this position to be a mentor. >> Kathy: Mm hmm. >> What are some of the ... How do you advise, either women that are in their early stage careers or even those maybe in the middle of their careers that are pondering, "Hey, I don't see any "or a lot of strong female leaders "in the executive suite. "Should I stay here?" You had that internally, but what is your advise to women who might be at that crossroads. >> Yeah. I think the first and most important thing is that it takes courage to stay the course. I know that sounds a little odd, but don't care about what you see around yourself, right? Just know about what do you love? What is your passion? And, you know, I always say that there is something I call the sweet spot. It's where your passion meets your talent. And if you're in a place like that, you're in a very special place. Because that means it's a strength of yours that you also love. And if you do that, it doesn't matter who else is around you. You know, one thing Laila said that I really loved and I really, really believe in myself is preparation. You have to be prepared so as long as you are prepared that's what gives you the confidence. We don't ... Okay, maybe she was born confident. She came out of the womb confident. I certainly wasn't. I was someone who grew up with ... I really lacked a lot self confidence. I was painfully shy. I had trouble speaking in front of people. I worked very, very hard. I was prepared to get over that fear. You know, I put myself ... She mentioned this thing about being uncomfortable. And I think I put myself in a lot of uncomfortable situations as well. I was really resonating with what she said. Speaking in front of large audiences. In fact, I used to memorize a lot of my speeches and then I remember I would forget it in the middle of it and- (gasp) I would be horrified. But you know what? You do a few of those things, you get better and better at it and if you just get out of that comfort zone and you have those little butterflies. I always say if you have those little butterflies, you're stretching your learning and that's what helps you achieve. >> I couldn't agree more. I think that, you know, I think that I always say, "Get comfortably uncomfortable." >> Kathy: Yeah. >> No matter what you're doing. If it's above the line or below the line as you were saying before. But you're right, she talked about preparation, being prepared and we talk a lot about imposter syndrome. >> Kathy: Mm hmm. >> Often times at Women and Technology events, just because it comes up, it's something I didn't even know what it was until a few years ago. And I think just simply finding out that this is a legitimate issue that many people face of any industry, gender, you name it. That alone, knowing that that was legitimate, was, "Okay, I'm not alone here." But if you can go, "Let me prepare and get prepared for what I need to do." That preparation part is, I think, a huge key that, if more people understand that just work and be prepared, you're not alone in feeling that. Sort of maybe setting the level setting there. I think that can go a long way to helping those women in any stage of their career just get that little bit more courage that you said. >> Yes. >> That you need to get out of that comfort zone. And I agree I think goals that make you a little nervous, are good goals to have. >> Totally agree. I have some tips on how to get out of that comfort zone, Or get out of your comfort zone. So, I find, okay, there's always the smartest-person-in-the-room thing you hear about, and, forget about that, okay? Ask questions. You always here this: There's no such thing as a dumb question. And there really is no such thing. I know how many times someone has asked a question say, "I asked that question." >> Lisa: Absolutely. >> And actually it's a brilliant way to be heard. Because a lot of times, a lot of women ... Actually, it doesn't matter. A woman, unrepresented minority, it could be a white male who's shy, right? In an inclusive environment, if you don't speak up, you're not heard. And a lot of the brilliant things that people have, are those questions that people have. Because if they don't understand something, I'm sure there's someone else who doesn't either. And so if you just ask some questions, you'll find that you'll get that courage to ask a few more. And then eventually you get to the point where you actually can advocate. >> I agree. You have to be willing to try and I love that. So, the theme of this event, Inclusion in Action. >> Kathy: Yes. >> I'd love to get your perspective on how do you see inclusion in action here at VMware in engineering, for example in R&D. >> Yes. First of all, I'm on the Diversity and Inclusion Council. So I represent R&D. Yes, I just had a meeting with Betsy Sutter. We had our Diversity and Inclusion Council for VMware so I was representing R&D. So it's something that is very, very important to us. One thing I will say that I've learned at this conference is it's not about the stats. It's not about the fact that you have meetings or goals. It's something you must internalize. It's something, as a leader, I think it's my job and duty to exude it, you know, through example, through being inclusive, to making sure, like I was at an event the other day here at VMware I was talking about I was at the Watermark Conference, and I was basically doing a replay of what I did at the Watermark Conference. And in there, I saw three men. And I said to myself, "You know what? "We need more men at this event." And so, even at this conference today, I want to see more men. It's all about inclusion, right? And I think people sometimes forget that, even though it says Women Transforming Technology, men, women, whatever your sexual orientation, whatever that is, we all care about how women can transform technology. You don't have to be a woman to do that. >> Right. Well one of the things that came out today was the great news about this massive investment that VMware is doing. 15 million to create this lab at Stanford. >> Kathy: Yeah. >> This innovation lab. And we were talking with Betsy earlier. And actually, in the press release, it cited that McKinsey report that states that, companies that have a more diverse executive team, >> Yes. no stats or anything, more diverse, are 21 percent more profitable. And it just seems like a no brainer. Every company wants to be profitable, right? Except for an NPO. So, if all you need to do is to increase that thought diversity alone and you're more profitable, why is this so difficult for so many other organizations to culturally adopt that mindset? >> Yeah. What I find fascinating is that diversity and inclusion is obviously a very hot topic in Silicon Valley, right? Every company is either fearing having their numbers publicly outputted or their working on these things. And yet we're doing a lot of things, but the needle isn't moving, right? So, I think it was mentioned today, by a professor from Stanford. She was saying there's not a silver bullet. Some of these things will take a long time. One of the things that we had talked about was this pipeline of, it doesn't matter again, young women, under-represented minorities, whatever you say in the STEM fields. We need to encourage more of that, okay? And so, what's interesting is there's more, well certainly more females than males that are graduating these days, yet, when you start off in a hi-tech company, you will see quite a bit of balance between male and female, I'll just use that as an example. It's even worse as far as under-represented minorities. But as you move up the chain, what happens is the numbers just fall off. And, one of the root causes that I see as an issue, is that when these women look up at the top and say, "I don't see women." Or if I am a person of color, "I don't see a person of color in this leadership position. "Why should I continue?" And then you see just a lot of attrition happening at those levels. And so, what it takes is every single one of us internalizing how important this is. And I think when that happens, when it's not a, "Oh, it's a project." Or, "Oh, it's an initiative." Or, "Oh, it's a goal." And this, by the way, may take a decade or more. But once we all internalize this, I think that's when the needle's going to move. >> Yeah, we talked a lot earlier about accelerating this. Because you're right, the attrition rates are incredibly high, much higher for women leaving technology than leaving other industries. And a lot of women are looking for those role models, like somebody like you for example. But, I think the more awareness, the more consistent awareness we can get ... And also the fact that, you know, in the last six months we've had the Me Too Movement explode onto the scene, getting this unlikely alliance with Hollywood, Time's Up, Brotopia coming out a couple of months ago, and was something that I actually put off reading because I thought, "I don't think I want to know", and I thought, "Actually, yes I do." Because there's no reason that these things should continue. >> Right. >> But, to your point, it's not just about getting more women involved. It's really about integrating and including everybody. >> Kathy: Absolutely. >> To move the needle, but much faster. Half of 2018 is almost over. There were no big females onstage for CES five months ago. And there's really no reason for that. So the more we can all come together and just identify role models and examples and share the different things that we've been through, the more I think we can impact this acceleration of this movement. >> Totally agree. I actually have a thought that you just triggered around perhaps accelerating this in the best way we can. Knowing, again, there's no silver bullet. But I was at my business school reunion and I was shocked to see that 80 percent of my business school graduates were not working. And what happened is many of these women had taken jobs in consulting firms, investment banking firms, that weren't that friendly. And when they started to have children, they stopped out. And they didn't want to compromise their family. Who does? Nobody wants to do that. But when they wanted to come back, they found that they had either gotten off, they call it the mommy track, right? The train left the station, they couldn't make it back on. Or they weren't willing to take a lower job. And so, because of that, many of them ended up not working. And, you know, that's sad. Because these are really, really smart, brilliant ... >> Lisa: These are Harvard graduates, right? >> They are. Harvard Business School graduates that were not working. And so, like you said, it requires everyone to understand, right? It's the employers, a lot of these men, need to understand that women, if they want ... And by the way, it's not even women these days. It's young men who want to be with their families, as well. Paternity leaves, time off with the kids, those sorts of things. If you allow those people that freedom. You know, when I was young, I felt like I went through this by myself. So I had three kids five and under. My career was not progressing. I was just doing lateral moves and I didn't feel like I was successful in anything. Not successful in my job, not successful at home. And then I had no friends, 'cause I was too busy and work and home. But if I had more of a support network at the time, fortunately I didn't drop out. I could have. I think many people do. So, if we can provide more support at that really important time when they're raising their families, people can see that, "Hey, I can have a great family life and also a great work life." >> So key, just for support alone. And that's one of the things that I think is really exciting about Women Transforming Technology. It's this consortium of organizations and industry and academia and non-profits, coming together to identify and tackle these issues that we're facing. 'Cause the issues that women are facing are issues that corporations, profitable corporations, are facing. But to connect on these challenge points, provide that support and that network, and also, to your point, maybe even providing an unlikely mentor to somebody who might have in your position where, "I don't think I'm being successful anywhere." But you stuck with it, and you might have at times gone, "I don't know why I'm sticking with this." But you had some intestinal fortitude to do that. More of those supportive and mentoring voices and people, the more we can elevate them, and show them to other people who might be struggling, the better we're going to be able to move this needle. >> Completely agree. And you know what? They always say "it takes a village," right? It takes a village to raise a family. It takes a village to work and do what you need to do and make a change in the world, and we all need to do this together. And, by the way, there's nothing more inclusive than that, is there? >> Lisa: Right. >> We all have to deal with this. It doesn't matter your sexual orientation, your age, your gender, your ethnicity, doesn't matter. We all share in this common bond, right, around how do we integrate our work and our life. >> Kathy, brilliantly said. Thank you so much for stopping by the CUBE and sharing your experiences and your wisdom. I, for one, was very inspired. So thank you for your time. >> Thank you, I was inspired as well. I really appreciate it. >> Oh, thank you. Thank you for watching the CUBE. We are on the ground at VMware for the Women Transforming Technology event. Thanks for watching. (music)