>>Fly from San Francisco. It's the cube covering RSA conference, 2020 San Francisco brought to you by Silicon angle media. >>Hi everyone. Welcome back to the cubes coverage here at in San Francisco, the Moscone center for RSA conference 2020 I'm job for your host. We are the very special guests, the COO of VMware, Sanjay Poonen, cube alumni. When you talk about security, talk about the modern enterprise as it transforms new use cases, new problems emerge. New opportunities exist here to break it down. Sanjay, welcome back. Thank you John. Always a pleasure to be on your show and I think it's my first time at RSA. We've talked a number of times, but nice to see you here. Well, it's a security guard. Well, this is really why I wanted you to talk, talk to you because operations is become now the big conversation around security. So you know, security was once part of it. It comes out and part of the board conversation, but when you look at security, all the conversations that we're seeing that are the most important conversations are almost a business model conversation. >>Almost like if you're the CEO of the company, you've got HR people, HR, organizational behavior, collaboration, technology, stack compliance and risk management. So the threat of cyber has to cut across now multiple operational functions of the business. It's no longer one thing, it's everything. So this is really kind of makes it the pressure of the business owners to be mindful of a bigger picture. And the attack velocity is happening so much faster, more volume of attacks, milliseconds and nanosecond attacks. So this is a huge, huge problem. I need you to break it down for me. >> Good. But then wonderful intro. No, I would say you're absolutely right. First off, security is a boardroom topic. Uh, audit committees are asking, you know, the CIO so often, you know, reports a report directly, sometimes, often not even to the CIO, to the head of legal or finance and often to the audit. >>So it's a boardroom topic then. You're right, every department right now cares about security because they've got both threat and security of nation state, all malicious, organized crime trying to come at them. But they've also got physical security mind. I mean, listen, growing a virus is a serious threat to our physical security. And we're really concerned about employees and the idea of a cyber security and physical security. We've put at VMware, cybersecurity and, and um, um, physical security. One guy, the CIO. So he actually runs vote. So I think you're absolutely right and if you're a head of HR, you care about your employees. If you're care ahead of communications, you care about your reputation and marketing the same way. If you're a finance, you care about your accounting systems and having all of the it systems that are. So we certainly think that holistic approach does, deserves a different approach to security, which is it can't be silo, silo, silo. >>It has to be intrinsic. And I've talked on your show about why intrinsic and how differentiated that intrinsic security, what I talked about this morning in my keynote. >> Well, and then again, the connect the dots there. It's not just security, it's the applications that are being built on mobile. For instance, I've got a mobile app. I have milliseconds, serious bond to whether something's yes or no. That's the app on mobile. But still the security threat is still over here and I've got the app over here. This is now the reality. And again, AirWatch was a big acquisition that you did. I also had some security. Carbon black was a $2 billion acquisition that VMware made. That's a security practice. How's it all coming together? Can you think of any questions? Blame the VMware because it's not just security, it's what's around it. >> Yeah. I think we began to see over the course of the last several years that there were certain control points and security that could help, you know, bring order to this chaos of 5,000 security vendors. >>They're all legitimate. They're all here at the show. They're good vendors. But you cannot, if you are trying to say healthy, go to a doctor and expect the doctor to tell you, eat 5,000 tablets and sailed. He just is not sustainable. It has to be baked into your diet. You eat your proteins, your vegetables, your fruit, your drink, your water. The same way we believe security needs to become intrinsically deeper parts, the platform. So what were the key platforms and control points? We decided to focus on the network, the endpoint, and you could think of endpoint as to both client and workload identity, cloud analytics. You take a few of those and network. We've been laboring the last seven years to build a definitive networking company and now a networking security company where we can do everything from data center networking, Dell firewalls to load balancing to SDN in this NSX platform. >>You remember where you bought an nice syrup. The industry woke up like what's VM ever doing in networking? We've now built on that 13,000 customers really good growing revenue business in networking and and now doing that working security. That space is fragmented across Cisco, Palo Alto, FIU, NetScaler, checkpoint Riverbed, VMware cleans that up. You get to the end point side. We saw the same thing. You know you had an endpoint management now workspace one the sequel of what AirWatch was, but endpoint security again, fragmented. You had Symantec McAfee, now CrowdStrike, tenable Qualis, you know, I mean just so many fragmented IOM. We felt like we could come in now and clean that up too, so I have to worry about to do >> well basically explaining that, but I want to get now to the next conversation point that I'm interested in operational impact because when you have all these things to operationalize, you saw that with dev ops and cloud now hybrid, you got to operationalize this stuff. >>You guys have been in the operations side of the business for our VMware. That's what you're known for and the developers and now on the horizon I gotta operationalize all the security. What do I do? I'm the CSO. I think it's really important that in understanding operations of the infrastructure, we have that control point called vSphere and we're now going to take carbon black and make it agentless on the silverside workloads, which has never been done before. That's operationalizing it at the infrastructure level. At the end point we're going to unify carbon black and workspace one into a unified agent, never been done before. That's operationalizing it on the client side. And then on the container and the dev ops site, you're going to start bringing security into the container world. We actually happened in our grade point of view in containers. You've seen us do stuff with Tansu and Kubernetes and pivotal. >>Bringing that together and data security is a very logical thing that we will add there. So we have a very good view of where the infrastructure and operations parts that we know well, a vSphere, NSX workspace one containers with 10 Xu, we're going to bring security to all of them and then bake it more and more in so it's not feeling like it's a point tool. The same platform, carbon black will be able to handle the security of all of those use cases. One platform, several use cases. Are you happy with the carbon black acquisition? Listen, you know, you stay humble and hungry. Uh, John for a fundamental reason, I've been involved with number of acquisitions from my SAP VMware days, billion dollar plus. We've done talking to us. The Harvard business review had an article several years ago, which Carney called acquisitions and majority of them fail and they feel not because of process of product they feel because good people leave. >>One of the things that we have as a recipe does acquisition. We applied that to AirWatch, we apply the deny Sera. There is usually some brain trust. You remember in the days of nice area, it was my team Cosato and the case of AirWatch. It was John Marshall and that team. We want to preserve that team to help incubate this and then what breve EV brings a scale, so I'm delighted about Patrick earlier. I want to have him on your show next time because he's now the head of our security business unit. He's culturally a fit for the mr. humble, hungry. He wants to see just, we were billion dollar business now with security across networking endpoint and then he wants to take just he's piece of it, right? The common black piece of it, make it a billion dollar business while the overall security business goes from three to five. >>And I think we're going to count them for many years to come to really be a key part of VMware's fabric, a great leader. So we're successful. If he's successful, what's my job then? He reports to me is to get all the obstacles out of the way. Get every one of my core reps to sell carbon black. Every one of the partners like Dell to sell carbon black. So one of the deals we did within a month is Dell has now announced that their preferred solution on at Dell laptops, this carbon bike, they will work in the past with silence and crowd CrowdStrike. Now it's common black every day laptop now as a default option. That's called blank. So as we do these, John, the way we roll is one on here to basically come in and occupy that acquisition, get the obstacles out of the way, and that let Patrick scaled us the same way. >>Martine Casado or jumbo. So we have a playbook. We're gonna apply that playbook. Stay humble and hungry. And you ask me that question every year. How are we doing a carbon black? I will be saying, I love you putting a check on you. It will be checking in when we've done an AirWatch. What do you think? Pretty good. Very good. I think good. Stayed line to the radar. Kept growing. It's top right. Known every magic quadrant. That business is significant. Bigger than the 100 million while nice here. How do we do a nice hero? NSX? It's evolved quite a bit. It's evolved. So this is back to the point. VMware makes bets. So unlike other acquisitions where they're big numbers, still big numbers, billions or billions, but they're bets. AirWatch was a good bet. Turned out okay. That the betting, you're being conservative today anyway. That's it. You're making now. >>How would you classify those bets? What are the big bets that you're making right now? Listen, >> I think there's, um, a handful of them. I like to think of things as no more than three to five. We're making a big bet. A multi-cloud. Okay. The world is going to be private, public edge. You and us have talked a lot about VMware. AWS expanded now to Azure and others. We've a big future that private cloud, public cloud edge number two, we're making a big bet on AB motorization with the container level 10 zoos. I think number three, we're making a big bet in virtual cloud networking cause we think longterm there's going to be only two networking companies in matter, VMware and Cisco. Number four, we're making a big bet in the digital workspace and build on what we've done with AirWatch and other technologies. Number five, and make it a big bet security. >>So these five we think of what can take the company from 10 to 20 billion. So we, you know, uh, we, we've talked about the $10 billion Mark. Um, and the next big milestone for the company is a 20 billion ball Mark. And you have to ask yourself, can you see this company with these five bets going from where they are about a 10 billion revenue company to 20. Boom. We hope again, >> Dave, a lot that's doing a braking and now he might've already shipped the piece this morning on multi-cloud. Um, he and I were commenting that, well, I said it's the third wave of cloud computing, public cloud, hybrid multi-cloud and hybrids, the first step towards multi-cloud. Everyone kind of knows that. Um, but I want to ask you, because I told Dave and we kind of talked about this is a multi-decade growth opportunity, wealth creation, innovation, growth, new opportunity multicloud for the generation. >>Take the, this industry the next level. How do you see that multicloud wave? Do you agree on the multigenerational and if so, what specifically do you see that unfolding into this? And I'm deeply inspired by what Andy Jassy, Satya Nadella, you know, the past leading up to Thomas Korea and these folks are creating big cloud businesses. Amazon's the biggest, uh, in the iOS pass world. Azure is second, Google is third, and just market shares. These folks collectively are growing, growing really well. In some senses, VM-ware gets to feed off that ecosystem in the public cloud. So we are firm believers in what you're described. Hybrid cloud is the pot to the multicloud. We coined that term hybrid thought. In fact, the first incantation of eco there was called via cloud hybrid service. So we coined the term hybrid cloud, but the world is not multi-cloud. The the, the key though is that I don't think you're gonna walk away from those three clouds I mentioned have deep pockets. >>Then none of them are going away and they're going to compete hard with each other. The market shares may stay the same. Our odd goal is to be a Switzerland player that can help our customers take VM or workloads, optimize them in the private cloud first. Okay? When a bank of America says on their earnings caller, Brian Warren and said, I can run a private cloud better than a public cloud and I can save 2 billion doing that, okay? It turns off any of the banks are actually running on VMware. That's their goal. But there are other companies like Freddie Mac, we're going all in with Amazon. We want to ride the best of both worlds. If you're a private cloud, we're going to make you the most efficient private cloud, VMware software, well public cloud, and going to Amazon like a Freddie Mac will help you ride your apps into that through VMware. >>So sometimes history can be a predictor of future behavior. And just to kind of rewind the computer industry clock, if you looked at mainframe mini-computers, inter networking, internet proprietary network operating systems dominated it, but you saw the shift and it was driven by choice for customers, multiple vendors, interoperability. So to me, I think cloud multicloud is going to come down to the best choice for the workload and then the environment of the business. And that's going to be a spectrum. But the key in that is multi-vendor, multi, a friend choice, multi-vendor, interoperability. This is going to be the next equation in the modern error. It's not gonna look the same as mainframe mini's networking, but it'll create the next Cisco, the create the next new brand that may or may not be out there yet that might be competing with you or you might be that next brand. >>So interoperability, multi-vendor choice has been a theme in open systems for a long time. Your reactions, I think it's absolutely right, John, you're onto something there. Listen, the multicloud world is almost a replay of the multi hardware system world. 20 years ago, if you asked who was a multi hardware player before, it was Dell, HP at the time, IBM, now, Lenovo, EMC, NetApp, so and so forth and Silva storage, networking. The multicloud world today is Amazon, Azure, Google. If you go to China, Alibaba, so on and so forth. A Motiva somebody has to be a Switzerland player that can serve the old hardware economy and the new hardware economy, which is the, which is the cloud and then of course, don't forget the device economy of Apple, Google, Microsoft, there too. I think that if you have some fundamental first principles, you expressed one of them. >>Listen where open source exists, embrace it. That's why we're going big on Kubernetes. If there are multiple clouds, embrace it. Do what's right for the customer, abstract away. That's what virtualization is. Managed common infrastructure across Ahmed, which is what our management principles are, secure things. At the point of every device and every workload. So those are the principles. Now the engineering of it changes. The way in which we're doing virtualization today in 2020 is slightly different from when Diane started the company and around the year 2020 years ago. But the principals are saying, we're just not working just with the hardware vendors working toward the cloud vendors. So using choices where it's at, the choice is what they want. Absolutely, absolutely. And you're right. It's choice because it was the big workloads. We see, for example, Amazon having a headstart in the public cloud markets, but there's some use cases where Azure is applicable. >>Some use his word, Google's applicable, and to us, if the entire world was only one hardware player or only one cloud player, only one device player, you don't need VMware. We thrive in heterogeneity. It's awesome. I love that word. No heterogeneity provides not 3000 vendors. There's almost three, three of every kind, three silver vendors, three storage vendors, three networking vendors, three cloud vendors, three device vendors. We was the middle of all of it. And yeah, there may be other companies who tried to do that too. If they are, we should learn from them, do it better than them. And competition even to us is a good thing. All right. My final question for you is in the, yeah, the Dell technologies family of which VMware is a part of, although big part of it, the crown jewel as we've been calling them the cube, they announced RSA is being sold to a private equity company. >>What's the general reaction amongst VMware folks and the, and the Dell technology family? Good move, no impact. What we support Dell and you know, all the moves that they've made. Um, and from our perspective, you know, if we're not owning it, we're going to partner it. So I see no overlap with RSA. We partner with them. They've got three core pillars, secure ID, net witness and Archer. We partnered with them very well. We have no aspirations to get into those aspects of governance. Risk and compliance or security has been, so it's a partner. So whoever's running it, Rohit runs on very well. He also owns the events conference. We have a great relationship and then we'll keep doing that. Well, we are focused in the areas I described, network, endpoint security. And I think what Michael has done brilliantly through the course of the last few years is set up a hardware and systems company in Dell and allow the software company called Vima to continue to operate. >>And I think, you know, the movement of some of these assets between the companies like pivotal to us and so on and so forth, cleans it up so that now you've got both these companies doing well. Dell has gone public, we Hammer's gone public and he has said on the record, what's good for Dell is good, what's good for VMware and vice versa and good for the customer. And I think the key is there's no visibility on what cloud native looks like. Hybrid, public, multi, multi, not so much. But you get almost, it's an easy bridge to get across and get there. AI, cyber are all big clear trends. They're waves. Sasha. Great. Thank you. Thanks for coming on. Um, your thoughts on the security show here. Uh, what's your, what's your take to, uh, definitive security shows? I hope it stays that way. Even with the change of where RSA is. >>Ownership goes is this conference in black hat and we play in both, uh, Amazon's conference. I was totally starting to, uh, reinforce, reinforce cloud security will show up there too. Uh, but we, we think, listen, there's what, 30,000 people here. So it's a force. It's a little bit like VMworld. We will play here. We'll play a big, we've got, you know, it just so happens because the acquisition happened before we told them, but we have two big presences here. We were at carbon black, um, and it's an important business for us. And I said, like I said, we have $1 billion business and security today by 30,000 customers using us in a security network, endpoints cloud. I want to take that to be a multi, multiple times that size. And I think there's a pot to do that because it's an adjacent us and security. So we have our own kind of selfish motives here in terms of getting more Mindshare and security. >>We did a keynote this morning, which was well received with Southwest airlines. She did a great job. Carrie Miller, she was a fantastic speaker and it was our way of showing in 20 minutes, not just to our point of view, because you don't want to be self serving a practitioner's point of view. And that's what's really important. Well finally on a personal note, um, you know, I always use the term tech athlete, which I think you are one, you really work hard and smart, but I got to get your thoughts. But then I saw you're not on Twitter. I'm on. When IBM announced a new CEO, Arvin, um, fishnet Indian American, another CEO, this is a pattern. We're starting to see Indian American CEOs running cup American companies because this is the leadership and it's really a great thing in my mind, I think is one of the most successful stories of meritocracy of all time. >>You're quick. I'm a big fan of oven, big fan of Shantanu, Sundar Pichai, something that Ellen, many of them are close friends of mine. Uh, many of them have grown up in Southern India. We're a different ages. Some of them are older than me and in many cases, you know, we were falling behind other great players like Vino Cosla who came even 10 to 15 years prior. And you know, it's hard for an immigrant in this country. You know, um, when I first got here and I came as an immigrant to Dartmouth college, there may have been five or 10 Brown skin people in the town of Hanover, New Hampshire. I don't know if you've been to New Hampshire. I've been there, there's not many at that time. And then the late 1980s, now of course, there's much more, uh, so, you know, uh, we stay humble and hungry. >>There's a part of our culture in India that's really valued education and hard work and people like Arvin and some of these other people are products. I look up to them, the things I learned from them. And um, you know, it's true of India. It's a really good thing to see these people be successful at name brand American companies, whether it's IBM or Microsoft or Google or Adobe or MasterCard. So we're, we're, I'm in that fan club and there's a lot I learned from that. I just love being around people who love entrepreneurship, love innovation, love technology, and work hard. So congratulations. Thank you so much for your success. Great to see you again soon as you put in the COO of VM-ware here on the ground floor here at RSA conference at Moscone, sharing his insight into the security practice that is now carbon black and VMware. All the good things that are going on there. Thanks for watching.

from Las Vegas it's the queue covering VMworld 2018 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners welcome back to the cube here in Las Vegas at VMworld 2018 I'm Stu moon with a co-host John we're happy to welcome to the program believes the first time guests know woz Murr who is the senior vice president and general manager of EUC or end-user tutoring at VMware thanks so much for joining us yeah absolutely thrilled to be here great show this year ya know we do a lot of interviews but we don't have enough room for every single GM but we're excited we got a lot going on at this show I mean we've been watching since Sanjay got put in charge of that group of years ago big acquisitions like AirWatch so tell us the the big news yeah I mean there's there's several things that we know a great a great opportunity for us to showcase some of the big big opera leases with work space one you know that we're finding that customers you know really have loved our product for ios and android we've had a lot of customers doing virtual desktops virtual apps now with workspace one we've brought all of it together seamless where they can now manage iOS Android Windows 10 obviously huge in the market both physical and virtual all with one tool and now even Mac right one of the big initiatives we've seen as Mac is a choice right where where employees say hey you know I really want to use a Mac but you know obviously there's one or two windows apps that we have to bring to Mac to make it successful in the enterprise and so obviously workspace one really bringing that together I mean know what you were early in VMware and left for a while came back you've been kind of the art one of the architects of this thing I was at VMware and it's doing with history and EMC you know on the server storage side there was this explosive excitement around virtualization and then desktop virtualization VDI came in that's right and I don't you know we were joking before about the earth video your VDI but it's been there its I went there it's a it's been more of a slow burn but it's it's it's crazy now and it's working and it's here what has been I'm just kind of curious what has been your philosophy and where you want to take VMware now that these you know but with all these technologies super useful super valuable kind of and trance I mean to use some buzzwords transforming the workspace right and it's real so yeah you know the first and foremost you know I think one of the things that we've done is we've matured virtual desktops virtual applications is is really look at what are the right use cases that they come in right you know I think for a while it was every PC is gonna be replaced with virtual and and I think we've you know now seen where it makes sense it's a phenomenal technology right where we have you know folks working from home in sensitive data can we deliver that secure you know real-time experience so I think we've become a lot smarter the second thing is that heterogeneity is now everywhere right people want to work on all these different devices you know there's there's there's Windows and Mac and Chromebooks and and people really want to have that that ability to work anywhere on any platform that they choose you know CIOs are telling us that that they're having a hard time recruiting key talent if they don't give a you know users choice right and so virtualization now helps us it helps us do that a little bit more in a more sophisticated way the other thing is that now people can start to run these workloads a little simpler in the cloud right we introduced Verizon cloud now and SoftLayer and you know on VMC as well now with this you're right so now you're seeing all the tech titans come together say you know run it on your local laptop run it in the cloud so we really see a lot of synergies again bring it back to workspace born yeah I like that the discussion choice you mentioned a whole bunch of cloud tech I made a joke that you know they have both Coke and Pepsi in the solutions Expo you know you can choose your containerized beverage of choice that's right there but at the same time sometimes people don't understand is that when Dells in the mix with VMware Dell has you know some really good history with everything down to the desktop I think back to the wise acquisition absolutely like so what is that whole stack you know if you will look like when you put it together how does that fit yeah it Dell has been a fantastic partner you know we you know as passed out on stage you know we announced a partnership with HP last year Dell this year Dell has done a phenomenal job now with what's called Dell provisioning for workspace one where out of the box you can take a physical Dell PC power it up and go directly into that that local management you know that is managed over over-the-air that you deliver the right applications the right services the right security patch and one of the really interesting things as you know del command tools underlying the OS now can be all managed by workspace one you know you tie that to you know the solutions like del complete where you can get VDI in a whole stack with Dell now you can start to say you know bring together that that whole solution of physical laptops virtual you know really make sense to tie it all together with Dell as an overall provider of the complete solution for enterprise you know one of the interesting things in the cloud evolution last few years is the is the rise of GPUs right we know it's not just a box of x86 and your 616 I've got all these GPUs in the cloud that kind of boomerang straight back to the desktops and how how important is that and how can the workspace you know horizon horizon and workspace view is one of those things I wish we can have the one a couple of customers I talk to you today said you know I said how's it going you know just flat out you tell us the goods the bads and they said I have to say the horizon experience is amazing right and part of that I think is because we have that back-end GPU power that we've never had before where you know there's it literally is difficult to tell the difference between physical and virtual you know we have a lot of our customers some in an auto and anytime people are using CAD or healthcare where they're trying to do rendering of imagery they can now use these back-end GPUs to actually get that full fidelity experience so it's really been opening up the use cases and really making this a real solution for especially highly regulated environments that's super nice so I mean a lot of news product news right that came out anything that you're particularly excited about I want to highlight you know one of the the biggest things is what we call workspace one intelligence I mean every software company here is saying you know analytics and and the machine learning and you know and I'd love to bring it back to you some real-world scenarios you know one of the areas that we all know app compatibility right when we're going for that latest upgrade now with Windows 10 upgrading every six months or so we've been able to look at that and say you know which apps are going to be incompatible how do we go fix them before we do the rollout and that also comes back to user experience right guaranteeing that the users are going to have a great experience making sure that we get those patches down but doing it in a smart way so that we don't break the user experience at the end of the day I really do think that that is going to be a major thrust you know for much of the industry as we get you know bigger and better one of the the facts that I know it's a it's interesting to note just six months in for 150 billion events ingest at a month on this cloud service right and we're just at the very beginning so you're gonna see some numbers over the next coming quarters and months and just how we're able to improve experience really remediates security almost instantly you know be able to do things like you know get rid of the mundane tasks and start to automate out you know some of these these trivial things alright so no I talking to some of the community members and security came up and and specifically around to you see it was like okay NSX I understand but security should s be table stakes in this environment shouldn't be something else it seemed to be a little bit of frustration with how it how it is today you know what's your feet I think Pat really said it well is that that security has to be built in right has to be intrinsic into into what we're building you know one of the things that you've seen we have this solution called trust network where we're what we're trying to do is take the information that we're ingesting all these data points of mobile devices Mac Winton and now start to share that in a way that that partners like CrowdStrike carbon black Symantec McAfee checkpoint Palo Alto you know 11 different providers all looking at that and saying if I correlate your data with my data we are getting insights that we've never seen before right and the the interesting thing about it is that the difference is real-time remediation right you see an event and so for example think about it from from your iPhone right if you jailbreak your iPhone within 30 milliseconds we can say hey you know let's let's eliminate enterprise data leave your personal stuff alone right we don't we don't care we don't want to know but let's get enterprise data off now how about on Windows 10 the same same opportunity right something looks strange listen well you know you're authenticating on this laptop and somebody else is authenticating over in you know Europe let's just pump for a multi-factor right like hey something looks wrong let's take a real-time remediation that's the difference that's the new game-changer that we see in this new modern era is is this ability to see something and just start to go into a normal escalation path of something might be wrong let's let's actually taking that and take an action no want to give you the final takeaway you know you've you've been in this part of the market for a while it's gone through a lot of changes for people that hadn't looked at a little bit what's what's the takeaway you want them to have no I think first and foremost is that this is a journey right this isn't like ESX where you pop a CD into the ROM and hit power on and like all right we're ready to go this is one that we say you know every three months can we say how we're either improving user experience improving security or radically changing the cost paradigm of management right and that's where we say hey you want to roll it office 365 let's make that you know a goal for the next three months hey you want to you know you want to figure out how to improve access to every SAS application in your environment great that's next hey do you want to figure out you know how are you gonna get better insight to where cost is or you want to move workloads out to the cloud here's how we can help you do that that makes our or our partners our customers heroes every three months right getting out in front of that CIO and saying here's what we're delivering for the business there's real business value okay and just in case for our audience a a CD was a thing before he had that's right driver we could have been it was this physical world that we lived in as opposed to today it's more virtual and the clouds that's right thanks so much there's a pleasure to work with you John Troyer I'm Stu minimun stay with us more coverage here from VM roll 2018 thanks for watching the Q thanks a lot [Music]