>> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE! Covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019! Brought to you by Citrix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin here with Keith Townsend, two days, wall-to-wall coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019. Keith and I have been geeking out for two full days now, and speaking of geeking out, I think its going to continue because Christian Reilly is here, back on theCUBE, the vice president and CTO of Citrix. Christian, welcome back! >> Thank you so much, it's been a while. >> It has! >> It really has. >> Well, we hope to make it fun. We have had, like I said, such great conversations with your executives, customers, analysts, everybody is so excited about this obvious pivot that Citrix is making towards the general user. You know, the power users being that 1 percent, and what you guys started off yesterday showing, resonates with everybody. I get it. I want my work day to be far more productive. I want apps and actions brought to me, so I can actually get down to the business of what I was hired to do. And we also are hearing over and over again, how employee experience is now elevated to a c-suite imperative, that is so critical because it directly affects the customer experience. >> Yeah, it's super exciting, isn't it? You know, it's great to watch it all come to life, because, you know, we've been working on this for a number of years behind the scenes and, you know, it's just so great to see all the effort that goes in come out on the big stage. And your right, I mean, we've been very calculated about the approach here. We do a lot of research in trying to understand these problems and these challenges. And, you know, quite frankly, customers are looking for more innovation from Citrix, looking for better ways to work, and, you know, I think we've got a very privileged position in being so important in customer application delivery over the decades that Citrix has been around. And so the, you know, the move, even though it seems like it's a quantum leap, is actually a really natural thing for us to go do, because we've won the trust over three decades of being, you know, the vendor to deliver mission critical apps so this is just an extension of that, but it's, yeah, it's super exciting. >> Yeah, so we've talked about that for the past couple of days. Citrix is a verb within IT. You know, "I'm going to Citrix into the application," or, "Is that on Citrix?" Or, "Is it Citrixed yet?" It is, we commonly understand what it means to be Citrix. But that's something that you guys have built over 30 years, and I think what's really interesting, Dana Gardner, we had him on earlier, he said Citrix is much too modest, there should be a Citrix inside for so many SaaS offerings, so that end-users in end-users understand that the foundational technology for this SaaS service, whether it's some payroll software, or some other third party healthcare solution, is being brought to you. The underlying application didn't have to be rewritten because of Citrix. I think we're at another foundational moment now. What you guys announced yesterday was foundational. I tweeted out as David was talking, saying, "You know what? Citrix is going to be the future of work." Like you know what? We'll follow doing automation. Citrix can't possibly be the- be the future of work. And he announced it, but, I want to try and get you- get this in one answer, hopefully, because it's big, you've been working on this for years, it shows, it's natural for Citrix to say that they're going to go to the next step of integrating different applications because you've been there already. What's the foundational technology? As, you know, when Frame back in 1995 was the foundational technology for virtual applications, what's the foundational capability that you're giving businesses today, that we're going to look back 20 years from now and say, "Obviously, that was the innovation"? >> Yeah, so that's a great question, I think there's a of couple things really, you know, We talked about it in the keynote extensively yesterday about the analytics piece. So, I wouldn't say that analytics is the only thing, but certainly when you think about the way we lined up the analytics conversation around security performance and then productivity. So that's the foundational element, and we're going to look back at that in a few years time and realize that we were very privileged to be in the path of user transactions, and the more you're in the path, the more transactions you get. The more transactions you get, the more source data you get. The more source data you get, the more you can feed the machine learning model, and the more accurate you can be about delivering the context of the workspace, so I think that's super important. The next bit, of course, would be the acquisition that we made of the Sapho technology back in November of 2018. And I think, you know, what you see there in the micros and the micro work flows, is really that big shift from the version 1 of the workspace, which was still very much about the traditional applications, traditional desktops, and then bringing together web and SaaS applications, but we sort of always knew that there was a bigger play, which was really to try and, as PJ talked about yesterday, how do we take work and break it down into atomic units? So we don't think about just the application, we think about the why. Why do people use applications? What is it that they do? And if you think about how that plays out with analytics, the more intelligence that we gather, the more intelligent we make the workspace. So I think with a couple of things, we'll look back at the Sapho acquisition as a key technology piece, but we'll look back at analytics as maybe the thing that helped to be the flywheel to deliver that intelligence within the workspace environment itself. >> And the power that that intelligence has to deliver a personalized experience to each user is huge. If we look at the consumerization and the expectations that we all bring to our business lives we want things to be smart enough to serve up just what I'm looking for. To make my life easier, so that the intelligence and the analytics has huge implications on being able to help companies use their applications better. If I'm having to go in and learn sales floors and try to talk glamor and all these things that as a marketer, I don't need to do, but if I could have technology that's under the covers- under the bonnet, is evaluating that and going to learn, "this is all that she needs to do for her role," how much happier am I going to be? How much more productive am I going to be? It's game-changing. >> Yeah, absolutely, and I think that the most important thing to remember about the whole of the the strategy around analytics, is it's constantly learning, so it's not like we just do it once. And if you think about where that goes along the term, you know, we're talking about, obviously, gathering user transaction data that I talked about. That will help us to generate the most valuable micro applications. But then if you think about that a little bit further on, you know, how do we actually then begin to get analytics on the micros themselves, and even begin to free up more productivity. So there's a continuum here that we see. You know, automation, as you mentioned, will be critical, you know, and if you think about what's happening and the industry in general. You know, robotic process information has skyrocketed to the game as organizations look to kind of do exactly what we're talking about, which is to free up the very scarce human capital to work on things that really matter, not on these mundane tasks. And you know, we talked to lots of customers about this, you know, the notion of how much application do you really use, and you know, it's been quite common, and one of the foundation- I guess foundational components that we talked about of why we did what we did was, we looked at enterprise applications that we were delivering through our traditional technologies, and they were really complex for some things that were really actually quite simple. And of course the Pareto thing holds true there that the 80% of people only want to get something out and 20% of people put something in. So that was obviously a key decision point for us to move ahead with, with the intelligent workspace, the micros that you saw. The other thing that's really interesting that we don't really talk about so much is that from a security perspective as well, being able to deliver just a part of the application actually minimizes the entire sort of attack surface, if you like. Whether that's for, you know, nefarious employees internally, or for true people who want to come in or sort of hack into your systems. The less that we can expose generally, then I think that's better overall. So there's actually some other upsides that we don't necessarily talk about in the context of intelligence, but when we talk to CIOs and we talk to the people in the business who really are interested in these technologies and these solutions, then we tend to expand the conversation a little bit into some things that we don't necessarily talk about all the time. >> Yeah, it's surprising how many questions you guys have answered for me today. I was at SAP, sapphire a couple weeks ago, and they were talking about X data, O data, X data being experienced data, and this is the output of digital transformation, and I was having a really tough time wrapping my head around the concept of X data. And I think this is hopefully something you could further along the discussion. When I think of just the access that Citrix has to this raw data, maybe the only other company that has more user data, or more access to user data, would be Microsoft via Windows. But Citrix presents SAP, which 80% of the world's transactions run through, is presented via Citrix a good majority of the time. Your CRM solutions and cloud-based options and sales forces presented again, through Citrix, so you're collecting a ton of data, as customers, you know, say, "okay, what's the account balance out of SAP, let me put it into this CRM solution and sales force". You're capturing that x data. How do you make sense of it? I think is the question, this is where the AI comes in. From a person looking at the process, and they come to Citrix and say, "Christian, you guys have the X data. Help us understand how that X data translates into business productivity. How do I personalize the experience for a individual use?" >> Yeah, absolutely, so I'll give you an example, you know, CTOs like to have a vision, right? So we'll talk a little about the vision. So I'll give you a relatively straight- forward example. So, we tend to see used cases around reviews and approvals and those kinds of things, whether it's expense reports or PTO requests, all the things that we've typically shown in the keynotes and the various demos that we've done as we've grown the solution. So here is what we kind of think about, so let's say, for example, that you have an employee. That employee submits expense reports on a fairly frequent basis and they tend to submit them for under $500. You may get to the point where you say, "actually, why do I keep approving these, because my level of trust with the employee is high, the dollar values of the individual reports is relatively low". So why would the system not just handle that and automatically approve them, until something was an anomaly. So if one came in that was $750, $1000, then I would get an alert. So I think when you talk about the X data, absolutely. The interaction with the X data is really where we see the value from the Citrix perspective, because we can learn how you actually deal with those notifications and those actions. So if there's an example of a micro application which gives you an expense report from let's say SAP Concur, and you never actually open it, you just click the approve button, then is there a real reason for you to continue to see the opportunity to open it? Because, you know, as I've said, the level of trust is high, the dollar value is low, and I could get productivity back that way, by actually looking at it from a sort of, "why should I actually approve this in the traditional way? I'll let the system take care of it until there's something that exceeds the threshold that I've learned that you're comfortable with". >> What- oh, sorry Keith, I was going to say, on that front though, where are enterprise companies in terms of letting that control go to the intelligence in the system? I mean how many times have we all submitted expense reports and maybe some of us like me go to Starbucks twice on the same day, hey, it happens, and you get rejection because it's the exact same dollar amount, and it's wasting all these cycles. But where is the appetite and maybe the trust from some of those larger organizations that culturally say somebody in procurement or finance has to click on every single funding and evaluate every single line item? >> Yeah, so I think the, sort of the beauty of what we've built here, certainly with what you saw yesterday and what we've been talking about at the show here. We're not actually changing any existing business rules or business work flow and gen components, right? So I think that's a really interesting point for us to bring up and to make sure that everybody understands, you know, right now, in the version that we're talking about for release later this year, you know, we're actually honoring most of the business rules and the work flows that are in the system of records. So that could be, you know, the HR system, the finance system, all the ERP system or whatever. So you know, I think when audit perspective, then we're good from that perspective, because you know, when we actually submit things back into the system of record from the micro apps, we're doing it on behalf of the user. So the transactions are still valid as if they were coming from the native experience. So I think that's great that we don't mess with any of that, because I think the higher, you know, we kind of make the hurdles for people to adopt by, and then, you know, whether it's cultural or whether it's regulatory, that obviously, you know, there's a downside to that. So, I think that's a good sort of first pass for us. I would suspect that as we go through this a little bit later though, there's going to be some potentially interesting questions that come up about, certainly of highly regulated environments about, you know, the legality of a robot, or digital assistant, or some kind of, you know, ancillary system being able to submit and do things on your behalf. So, you know, that's- this is not a GDPR thing by the way, or anything of that nature, it's more a, you know, if something was to happen in the system that wasn't intended, who's responsible? Is it the robot or is it the individual that's allowed the robot to work on their behalf? So I think there will be some interesting questions that come up along those lines, but I think, you know, in the v1 we're honoring the business rules, we're honoring the business logic and the work flow. And so, you know, I'm expecting that most customers will look at this and say, "yeah, I kind of get it," and you know, it's more valuable than it is a problem. That's certainly the goal. >> So let's talk about scale of this new foundational capability. Like I can easily see this working inside of your existing set of VDI products. You have visibility into the analytic data, but at some point, you're going to have enough data that the VDI isn't needed to create these work flows and these solutions. I can see this actually freeing up desktops for some employees where the only reason why they ever needed a desktop because they had to go on to Concur or the time management solution. If I do 40 hours every week for 52 weeks, I don't need to log into a portal to do that. How tied to your existing set of products is this capability? Is this something that, from a total addressable market that you- whether it's a mobile app or mobile first app that you guys can ingest this type of capability into? >> Yeah, so you know, as you know well, Kieth, we've been talking about the death of the PC in the industry for a decade, right? And it's- the reality is that most customers have an application portfolio that's heavily reliant on Windows. Now, having said that, there are obviously cases- and we look at sort of, some of the, what we call the customer jobs to be done, okay? Which is a Harvard business thing that came from Clayton Christianson. And it's a really interesting way of making sure that the innovations that we bring are actually addressing things that customers need to get done within their own environments. So if you take a used case, let's say it was a field technician. So you're going out, you're going to fix a faulty gas meter, or you're going to go out and perform some kind of maintenance work. It's highly likely that you're going to use a mobile device. And so, what we showed yesterday with the mobile version of the intelligent experience, what we show with the work space assistant, absolutely. I see used cases where we can give them instant productivity. So you know to pull and to push data into the systems of record, where the underlying operating system on the mobile device is kind of academic. But there will certainly be used cases where VDI or physical Windows desktops will be around for a very long time. So I think the value that we have is making sure that all those user transactions go through the workspace one way or another, so that helps us with the analytics piece. But I think I'll look a little bit further out, you know, again, we showed some demos of it yesterday, in one of the CTO breakout sessions that we had. The real ultimate goal is to think about the work space overall as more of an experience that will evolve. It's not necessarily an app, an app is one way to consume it, but we want to build a platform that can consume and be consumed by other things. So whether that's Microsoft teams that we showed yesterday, whether that becomes slack, Facebook for work, or whether it's an integrated voice assistant within, you know, an Apple device, or a Microsoft device, or a Google device, or a Samsung device. See, the value of that from a choice perspective is that we really then don't demand what the customers use, and ultimately their end use. So I think when we get a little bit further along in the thinking on the platform itself, it opens up endless possibilities to interact with the information you need. And it's not predicated upon any operating system because hopefully we can be ubiquitous. >> So, Citrix has over 400,000 customers worldwide. I think I read 98-99% of the Fortune 500, the Fortune 100, intelligence experience goes generally available later on this year, there's some customers in beta. What are you looking forward to as 2019 continues, coming off the high that is Citrix Synergy 2019? >> Well, you know, so like I said at the start here, I've been working on this thing with, frankly, the brilliant team we have here at Citrix for just about three years, so I wouldn't say it was quite stealth, but we've gone through these kind of programmatic changes internally. I'm looking for- I'm most looking forward to when customers understand the power of what we're going to give them with the builder. So the builder, again, is something we showed yesterday, but, you know, you think about the approach that we have is that we're going to, obviously, help customers to get productive and to get going with the intelligent experience by creating these out with the box micro apps and micro work flows for many of the most popular SaaS applications. The real big thing I'm looking forward to is when people can actually take the builder that we've developed and give it to their line of business people and say, "hey, you can create as many micro apps as you think are necessary within the constructs of your business process to enable your people". So that, to me, is kind of like, going to be the ultimate wow, when people say, "actually, I can give this to a person who is capable of creating a Pivot Table in Microsoft Excel," as an example. And they can then actually use the technologies that we provide to create the micros and micro work flows for their own part of the business without the help of traditional development. I think that's going to be huge and I can't wait until we've got, you know, the first examples of people who have said, "hey, you've made my life easier, I can't work without Citrix". >> While businesses can be built on that, the new Excel uh, Citrix builder, the new Excel. >> I hope so, I hope so. >> Well, we'll all be excited to- and be watching with close eyes. Christian, thank you for joining Kieth and me on theCUBE, but Synergy 2019! >> Thank you so much. >> Our pleasure. For Kieth Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from Citrix Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching! (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana it's the Cube, covering Dot Next Conference 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman here at the Cube in New Orleans, the Nutanix Dot Next Conference. Joining me is Keith Townsend, going wall-to-wall with interviews for two days. And going to dig into some really geeky techy stuff, Micro segmentation and the like. Happy to welcome to the program two first-time guests, Harjot Gill, who is the Senior Director of product and engineering at Nutanix and Rajiv Mirani, who's the CTO of Cloud Platform. Thank you both for joining us. >> Both: Thanks, thanks for having us. >> Alright, so Rajiv you've been with Nutanix for a bit, so we're going to get Harjot first. So we beat four acquisitions that Nutanix has made in the software space in the last year or so. One of them was Netsil. >> Harjot: Yes. >> So bring us back. You were and are the CEO of the Netsil Group. Tell us, kind of, a why of the company, size of the team, things like that. >> That's good yeah, so previously, as I was co-founder and CEO of Netsil, which I don't know whether you noticed, is listen spelled backwards. And, essentially, it was like microservices analytics platform and the core technology of Nexus was, where designers at University of Pennsylvania in the research group. That's where most of my team came from. It's a really small team, like just 10 engineers, who took on this like very interesting challenge in the industry as micro services were taking off, applications were, like, ported to modern platforms, like kubernetes. We saw an opportunity to take, like, a network centric approach in doing performance analysis and liability analysis. And the product that we built is very interesting. It can be thought of as, like, Google Maps for your cloud applications just like Splunk, in the past, was Google search for data center. So we came up with this concept where you can, like, visualize different abstractions and different virtualization layers of your application delivery. And that was our product. >> Alright, Rajiv, we've been talking about the, really, expansion of services that you're offering. You know, security and networking, obviously a big space. So first of all, not not a Stanford team that you brought in but University of Pennsylvania. Explain a little bit for us justification, how Netsil fits in with the Nutanix portfolio. >> Yeah, the Netsil Technology is unique in many different ways and we actually see a lot of different applications for it. The core product that they have today, the way they do performance monitoring by staying just on the network, not installing any host agents. It's pretty unusual. It's something that we really liked about the technology. The fact that they can do this at layer seven can actually look at application data to deep packet inspection at line speed. It's even more impressive. And they really build at the scale out architecture based on Harjot's research work. We looked at that and we said, "hey look, this can be used for performance monitoring, it can be used for application discovery, it can be used for security operations." There's just so many different directions we can take this in. And it's a great team that's built it with a relatively small number of people. We want these guys to be working with us not not as a separate company. And it moved very quickly. The acquisition happened quite quickly. We talked a little bit this morning about how they're going to use it for micro segmentation but there's many other use cases we see coming down the pike. >> So let's talk a little bit about the enterprise of applicability. You know, when you guys looked at it, you mainly looked at containers and the challenges of a micro, i'm sorry, of multi services and basically twelve fact applications. >> Harjot: Yeah. >> How is that applicable to the typical enterprise, which 90% of their applications are modern lifts. Same capability? What what capabilities are you bringing to Bear for traditional application? >> It's pretty applicable everywhere because network is a very stable source of truth, like what remains constant in the legacy as well as in the new world is your TCP/IP stack. And it's a very stable source of truth to tap into. So one of the value proposition that Netsil had with an offer very, like, the early enterprise customers that we signed up, was helping them migrate from this monolithic architectures to micro services. And their existing tools on the market, if you look at APM tools or even the logging tools, were inadequate when taking them on this journey. And you can think of Netsil as a very pervasive solution. I mean, the analogy that I usually give people is, like drones versus troops on the ground. Where Netsil can quickly set up, like a breadth of coverage in any environment, whether it's like Legacy or micro services, you are covered. And and then once you find issues in your environment with security issues or performance issues, you can systematically drill in. Either add more instrumentation creating or add policies with micro segmentation. That was the whole idea. So there was a gap in the market for this kind of a tool. >> So let's talk about integration of Nutanix. One of the, what I'm calling, first principles for Nutanix is, push button one click easy. >> [Harjot And Rajiv] Yes. >> What does the Netsil application look like in a Nutanix environment to the Nutanix administrator? >> So let's take the micro segmentation example again, right. So today, if you were to micro segment an existing application, it's pretty hard to know where to begin. So Netsil described it as a hairy problem but we know he likes hair. But what Netsil does is it takes all the data it's gathering from the network and it gives you all this visibility into how every part of your application is interacting with each other. You can group it in different ways, so it's not just about VMs talking to Vms. If you have a micro services based application, that's actually very little value. You really want, which services are talking to each service or even more, which service tiers are talking to which service tiers. But gathering all that data, we can actually fully automate the creation of micro segmentation policies for existing applications. So today what we saw was more of a manual thing. We've set it up previously. It's just that we haven't enough time to do integration yet. You expect that to become completely automated. Similarly with the remediation stuff, the troubleshooting stuff. We have it integrated with the Netsil technology, with the machine learning things that we have been working on. Once we do that, we can explain a lot more automated insights into your applications, integrated alert system, integrated with our metrics and stat systems. So a lot of work to do but a lot of potential for this technology, I think. >> So yeah, so it actually does solve this chicken and an egg problem, as Rajiv said, with actually making micro segmentation operational by first discovering these ground field apps and then suggesting policies, right? And all the goodness of Netsil will be brought on to, like, products like Prism, where out-of-the-box, Netsil can provide visibility and metrics for workloads such as VDI and all the packaged applications and all the Mongo Db and all of the stuff that is hosted on top of Nutanix platform and selling it to the same ID ops. >> Harjot, the space you're playing in is really changing so so fast. >> Harjot: Yes it is. >> Talk about micro segmentation and containers and serverless and the like. What, at its core, will allow your product to be able to stay up with the pace of change? >> So the code of the product, as I mentioned, I mean, it's network based, so one of the things, like, you get with that is, like, it's a very stable source of truth. So your languages keep evolving. So in if you look at the, I mean, this mind-boggling introduction of, like, open source technologies into enterprise environments, which you don't control what languages they are written in. And your developers are like picking up the latest and greatest tools. So in that world the core of the technology, which is like network based, still works the same and that allows us to be ,like, really future-proof this thing here. >> Languages of frameworks change. The network protocols are much more stable. >> Yet, to some people's chagrin, the protocols don't change. So let's talk a little bit about products and overlap of products. One of the, I think, confusing points, or can be confusing, is where Netsil fits in when it comes to Comm and overall to Zai. Where, where's the interaction and overlap or what's the relative? >> Yeah, so you can think of every workload in the cloud as a coup de loop, observe, orient, decide, and act. Now what Comm helps the customer is to like act faster, right. Whereas Netsil comes in and provides the observe and the orient piece. So it's all part of the same workload workflow. If you are an IT ops person, you need tools to observe and help orient, so you can decide faster. And tools like Comm and kubernetes, in the future, with one click, just a few clicks, you can make massive changes to your cloud infrastructure. But without observability you are just flying blind. That's where Netsil comes in. So that's why, as you've said, as Rajiv said, like it's going to enhance a lot of areas within Nutanix and, possibly like, even continue selling as a multi cloud monitoring solution. >> Just as we do brownfield input for micro segmentation, you can imagine that it would be a great great product for Comm as well. Being able to do brownfield import of applications and making them into Comm blueprints. >> Yeah, Rajiv, you've had some pent up demand from customers for the micro segmentation piece but give us a little bit.. You said there's other applications, what should we be expecting to see from the Netsil product line? >> So as CTU I can talk future, so let me tell you some stuff on the kubernete timelines. One great area for us to explore is around security operations. Since since Netsil is already in the net world looking at all traffic, it can easily establish a baseline, of which Vms, which containers normally talk to each other. What kind of requests to make. And it's registered at layer seven, so it can even go and look into what kind of API endpoints are normally called. And once it's base-lined this, detecting variation, selecting violations is going to be relatively simple. So we can alert on security violations, unusual behavior, services making calls to services that shouldn't be making calls to. All that kind of stuff. So that's one area for us to explore. We talked about Comm, so Comm can benefit greatly by being able to import brownfield applications into the Comm umbrella, making blueprints out of them. There's integrations with Prism Pro, which will enable the kind of metrics that Netsil is collecting and integrating it to what Prism Pro already does, putting into one single framework, adding it to capacity planning, adding in all the Prism Pro features that we have. So there's a lot of stuff we can do. >> So that's an awful lot of data. Where's this stored and what's the engine behind it? >> That's a great question. Actually, Netsil not only innovated in this unique way of collecting, we also invented a lot in-time series databases. So the back end of Netsil is powered by a database called Apache Druid, which is an OLAP time series database. So it can ingest that scale and you can run complex queries in sub-second latency XQ. So it can like summarize billions of data points at sub-second latencies. And the third thing that Netsil innovated is, in the visualizations. We are talking about, like, visualizing this complex data that is coming from these modern transforming environments. That's another area where Netsil innovated with this Maps interface to summarize and build easy-to-understand visualizations on your complex infrastructure. >> Now I'm scared that my head would explode but I would love to get you guys on with Satyam and talk through what additional data and when it comes to IOT machine learning, what additional insights. Quick question, are you guys working with Satyam at all at this point? >> We've started, like, understanding the lay of the land, so we're, like, still getting introduced to a lot of teams. As you guys know, these Nutanix is now growing very rapidly, there's so many areas to, like, learn about. And we are primarily working with a micro segmentation team right now but going forward, you will see Netsil's goodness being brought into other areas at Nutanix. >> Yeah, Rajiv one question I have from a software standpoint in general, where does AI fit into, you know, what you're doing with Zai and Comm? >> Yes, so for all of them, you know, we're using machine learning fairly extensively today to even do basic things like capacity planning, the what-if modeling that we've been doing. But to go beyond machine learning, if we actually invest in building an AI platform, I feel we can do a lot more in terms of root cause analysis and mediation, troubleshooting of applications, finding performance bottlenecks automatically. Essentially, really making that invisible infrastructure dream come true. We're close, we're not quite there yet. >> Yeah, and it's really about, like, getting quality data in without friction. So you have, like, AI is now being commoditized in the industry like all the algorithms are now like mainstream. So the biggest challenge has always been how do you go and capture the data at low friction? That's what Netsil brings onboard. >> Yeah, I'm super excited for the micro segmentation. Let's talk about what if customers... What has been the customer reaction to Netsil and just the new capability? >> We see a lot of excitement. This is micro segmentation barely been out, what, a couple of months at this point? And we already have fairly large customers deploying it out there, and a lot of demand for proof of concepts and so on at this point. It was very clear to us from the beginning that when people were looking at other SDN solutions, the number one use case they were using in the enterprise was for micro segmentation. So we took that, we made it as simple as we could. In true Nutanix fashion we said, "okay, let's make micro segmentation as one-click as we can." And it's been gratifying, I think, to see the initial reaction. In fact, some of the initial feedback we've gotten has been along the lines of, this is almost too simple. >> So one of the challenges that we've had in Enterprise is hybrid cloud. When you look at a EC2 instance and you have an internal database and the two communicate, that EC2 instance is ephemeral, we don't know how to handle that. Does Netsil address that challenge at all? >> It does, in fact, it's been designed for even a faster moving world of containers. I'll give you an example of kubernetes, it is, I mean, a similar example. So next Hill installs as a daemon set on kubernetes experiencing structure insertion. You are, like, independently inserting without developers. And as soon as it is installed, it's not just looking at packets, it's also like tapping into docker socket for metadata. So as soon as containers go up and down, new ones brought up, it actually pulls the metadata, the container IDs, the service IDs, kubernetes, pod names and whatnot. And then measures that to the metrics that we are collecting. So that in the UI, as you saw in the demo today, you're not so much slicing and dicing by IP addresses. You're slicing and dicing by that service tax, so your BMS can come and go, containers can come and go. But we are looking at the behavior of this group of cattle, and you know the cattle versus pets analogy, the whole idea in the new world is, to like, create these services as the new pets and your cattle are ephemeral, and the whole idea that Netsil can discover micro-services, discover the boundary of micro services by looking at layer 7 behavior and by smartly grouping things based on the behavior. So we know exactly what a MySQL database and different installations of MySQL look like based on the behavior and the query behavior, and group them together. >> So enforcement. And is that at the bot level or is that at the container level? >> So on the enforcement side, Netsil is mostly on the visibility. So on the micro segmentation side there is... >> Today micro-segmentation, of which for Vms as we build out our next version of container services, we are looking into building a micro segmentation for kubernetes as well, and that will be at the bot level. >> Alright Kieth, I'm looking forward to this is CTO advisor podcast, digging a little bit more into micro-segmentation. It may be Rajiv and.. >> We'll have them on for sure. >> ...and Harjot can stop by so time. But thank you gentlemen so much for coming. Congratulations on the update. Looking forward to hearing more. Keith and I have a little bit more here left of day one of Nutanix dot next 2018. I'm Stu Miniman, Kieth Townsend. Thank you for watching the Cube. (Electronic Music)

(lively brass music) >> Narrator: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana. It's the Cube covering .NEXTconference 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> So, you're watching the Cube and there's 55 hundred in attendance, here at the Nutanix .NEXTconference. Getting ready for a big party this evening at Mardi Gras world, get a flavor for the local cuisine and one of the things we always love at the show is, really, being able to dig in with the practitioners. Happy to welcome to the program, first, my guest Mike Spencer, vice president of hosting and managed services at ICF Olson, thanks so much for joining us. >> Well thank you very much for having me. It's been a great event, so far. Very inspiring keynote speech this morning. >> Awesome, so Mike. First of all, it's your first time here at .NEXT, tell us what brought you here and a little bit of background of yourself and your organization. >> Yep, so one of the reasons why we came here is my team is up for an award. We've been a user of the Nutanix platform for about three and a half years and it's done a lot to help us in our position in the marketplace, and so part of this is giving a little bit back, and some of it's, you know, coming to hear about what's next, so. >> So actually, could you tell us, what does this award mean to you, your team, and everything like, some people, like there's vendor awards, there's show awards, and like what's that like? >> Well, you know, I think my team is really excited to have some sort of external validation that, you know, the last three and a half or four years that we've been working towards this, you know, journey towards dev ops and infrastructures code, that somebody externally is starting to recognize that what we've done is great, and appreciating that work, so. >> Alright, so Kieth and I, I think are, you know, excited to dig in, we hear things like dev ops and infrastructures code. Something we've been documenting and talked to a lot of customers about, kind of digital transformation. Can you tell a little bit of the story? Bring us back. What was the challenge? What'd your organization look like and walk us through what you did. >> Yeah, so I think initially, very traditional IT team. Really managing things on a per-server basis, on a per-client basis and really needing that guy there to click next or to pay attention to a server. Really kind of that old adage of treating all of our servers like a pet versus more like cattle, which is where we are today and the efficiency around it. So we had some issues around stability, performance, availability, those types of things that really drove us to take a different look at the way we were doing things and so that's kind of what kicked us off on the journey to start looking at, how do we totally rethink this whole space and bring innovation in, in a space that historically doesn't have a ton of innovation. >> So let's talk about the innovation because, you know, the whole thing, whole thing services, you buy commodity hardware as cheap as possible, let it run as long as possible. When I think of Nutanix, I don't think commodity. Help bring the story together for us. >> Yep, so, you know, as architecturally, as we looked at everything we were doing, one of the unique things that we did is we decided to look at our infrastructure as more of a service-based architecture, which is very much more of a software development look at the world, versus an infrastructure look and some of the key tenants in that space are around driving for simplicity in your environment, and the Nutanix platform helped us eliminate a lot of the specialties that we needed in our area, right? So we are very much a commodity type person when it comes to servers, right? The name on the front of the server wasn't really important but what was really important for us and what Nutanix brought to the table was, they merged together all of the pieces in the server part of the stack down to the network stack. We no longer had to deal with things like storage. I didn't need to have SMEs on staff that were specialists in that space. It helped to simplify our networks. It helped us manage things through a single pane of glass, right? And we did it all in a very cost effective way. For us, it really helped us take that 25% of our labor in that space and refocus about 25% of it into really driving forward with the infrastructures code and dev ops methodologies. >> Mike, what does this mean for your business? Funny, I look at your website. It's a customer experience agency built to help you through this digital transformation. It's like, wow, it's what we're talking about at this kind of show. What does that mean to your company and, you know, your end users? >> So ICF Olson is the marketing services wing of ICF, our parent company, which is a large consulting wing but from a customer experience agency standpoint, we span everywhere from PR, brand, all the way down the stack, including managed services and hosting. A lot of our clients say, hey, you know what, you guys are really good at designing this. Why don't you guys go and run it for us? And so that's really where my art comes into place, is not just the hosting of something but also the running of something and working with the clients. It allowed us to become more of an end to end agency, right? It allowed our clients to focus on things more important like, you know, how they were going to change their brand, how they were going to look at the market, how they were going to advertise. And so from a business perspective, itself, one of the things that it did is it helped enable, you know, frankly we want a lot more business, right? Because we were willing to take these things on. We were able to repeat those types of things with a high level of success, so. >> How do you measure success? >> Success is... In our space, in particular? Honestly it is our clients not having to interact with us. (laughing) Right? We're not the sexy part of the digital ecosystem. (laughing) >> Modernization of data center is a critical piece of it. Clients are looking to you to basically make that invisible. The data center should be just something that they consume. As Nutanix has moved, you've been a customer for three years and Nutanix has moved from a hardware, software appliance, where they're selling you the entire platform to software only solution, how has, what has that meant to your business? >> Well, I mean, it's allowed us to take our focus off being experts in the hardware space. Again, something that didn't necessarily bring value, even in our private cloud. We do manage both public and private cloud but our private cloud space, it allowed us to not have to focus on the energy there and really allowed our infrastructure team to become more of a software development team. So that's been a big, big win for us. >> Talk to us a little bit about the organizational dynamics, rolling out dev ops. What did that mean for your team? You say things are invisible now. Was there a adjustment in head count, or roles, or retraining that you can share? >> Yes to all of that. In its simplest form, yeah. So a lot of people look at the implementation of dev ops being something that's kind of done to an infrastructure team. Right, it's designed to make an infrastructure team look more like a software development team or work more fluidly with a software development team and I think those things are all true but it also helped us transform our overall SDLC for software development. There's a lot of things. As we continue to build skill and trade out skill, right, continue to move up the stack, we basically became middleware developers, to where, now, our software developers for our core products and things that we sell for our clients, and support for our clients, those developers are now working on purely code and the aesthetics of things, the UX side of it. Where we are much more managing the middleware component, which interacts nicely with the hyper-converged platform. Right, Nutanix. There was a shift in labor, without a doubt. As you mature through the process you do a lot of investment in people. Right, making sure that they're kind of keeping up with the times, understanding the new methodologies. Huge shifts from the methodologies that a traditional IT team would use to what a software development team uses, right? It wasn't only moving an infrastructure team into that methodology, it was also getting the business and the software development team we work with used to us working more like them versus more like the old IT team. And so honestly, we probably caught the software development team more off guard than we did ourselves, so. (laughing) >> There's another side of that coin. As you develop that skill, as you develop that capability, retention becomes a problem. There's a natural headcount where, you know what, you don't need as many people to come in at midnight to do firmware revisions, do the low level work, but as they skill up, you look around, you know, you look at what happens in the rest of the dev ops movements, where you have entire teams leaving the fortune 500s to go to another fortune 500 to implement their dev ops. How do you encourage your team to stay? >> So to me, it's all about culture, right? Our team can work remote. They all choose to be in the office, right? They enjoy each other. It's also investing in people and investing in their growth. So it's not always about, necessarily, the size of a paycheck. It's also about work-life balance, the willingness of the organization to invest in their people, and giving them time to innovate. I mean, when you talk to the majority of infrastructure guys or even technology guys out there, what drives them every day is not necessarily their paycheck. That's a side effect of the good work they do. It's really the challenge, the pure problem solving of IT. We give them that opportunity to be able to innovate. >> Tell us a little bit about your Nutanix solution that you have, what you started with, how much you grew, what's not on your Nutanix today? >> So private cloud, we are 100% Nutanix today. We started with a four node environment that was, really, purpose built around our analytics platforms. We were looking for some way to isolate IOPS from our production environment. More of a standard, three tier architecture (clearing throat) and we did some research out there, this is at the same time that we're rethinking the architecture of everything, really kind of looking at the way we do business, and we came across several vendors, one of them being Nutanix. It was a very young company, fairly unproven, in at least our market, but their message was exactly the same message that we had developed and so we decided to take a chance on them. We put them in. You know, we did some load testing between that platform and our traditional platform and were very pleasantly surprised to find what we found. Almost a three X increase in disc IOPS and so we went live with this analytics platform, and really did a lot of testing there, right? And then we kind of started the natural process after we got comfortable with it for about six months of hey, why don't we start working through the life cycle process and bring through, bringing in Nutanix to offset? Instead of buying, you know, a storage shelf, right? I can go get a Nutanix cluster that has the same amount of storage but also brings compute with it. (clearing throat) So once we started doing that, we started putting production workloads onto the Nutanix platform and seeing great results. We expedited our journey. Within about a year and a half, we had replaced all of our traditional stand and compute plaforms. So the infrastructure guys, once they saw it in action, once the business saw the results, even the financial side of it, (laughing) you know, we were almost asked to expedite the process of moving towards Nutanix. Which, for us, it was great because it was less to manage. >> So as you guys moved to the Nutanix infrastructure, talk about the more advanced services that they've offered over the past few years. Specifically, the hypervisor, haven't you guys embraced AHV? >> So we have in dev. We are not running it as our primary hypervisor right now. In our architecture, we run VMware today. I'm not probably supposed to say that here but we run VMware. We have been looking at Acropolis. Really, the way we look at the hypervisor is as a component in our service space architecture. We are in a position where we can replace that because it's not an important part to us. We just haven't had the cycles in our roadmap to be able to put towards the replacement of VMware, yet. But it is certainly something on our roadmap and something we're marching towards because the APIs have continued to evolve on the Nutanix platform, we work quite closely with Nutanix on that. They seem to accommodate a lot of our asks but, yeah, it really has been more of a time thing, you know? There's so many things to code in this space, right now. >> You've got the award but what were you looking to really accomplish this week? Are there sessions you're looking for, are there products you're looking to dig into for you and your team? >> A lot of it was about vision, right? How well does the Nutanix vision align with our vision? And, like I said, from the keynote speeches this morning and some of the new services we see coming out, I think they're doing a great job. Their head is where our head is. They're headed the same direction we are. You know, in a lot of places where we're doing custom development, we can actually go in and say, hey, why don't we acquire this? You know, one of the exciting announcements this morning was around Beam. The ability to do compliance across our cloud platforms. We run today about 50% public cloud, 50% private cloud just depending on what the solution is we're providing, so it gives us that one pane of glass. >> What public clouds are you using and how does that, kind of the hybrid, hybrid world that Nutanix laid out this morning fit into your vision? >> Well, so. The right answer for me should be it shouldn't matter what cloud I'm running. But we are running Azure as well as AWS, just depending on the solution. So we have partnerships on both sides. But we don't necessarily look at them as being a long running relationship because, you know, this is a very, this space is changing at a very rapid pace. You know, who knows who the next person is that's going to stand up that we need to support. So we're very platform-agnostic when you look at it. When we deploy something, it really doesn't matter if it's on private cloud, public cloud, doesn't really matter. To us, it's just all building blocks that we plug in together and let code do its job. So, in that model, you guys do 50% public, 50% private. Nutanix has an opinionated view of cloud. How does that impact your business and services? >> Nutanix's approach? >> Yeah they're vision versus the...? >> Yeah, well I think their vision's great, right? Because it is a fairly agnostic vision. With them being, obviously, wanting the private cloud side of that but understanding that there is no 100%, you know, private cloud and 100% public cloud in today's world. It is all hybrid cloud environment and that certain workloads are better on prim, and certain workloads are better in the public cloud. I think that was in total alignment with everything we do. Our primary job is web hosting. So we deal with geographic workloads all the time. >> Well, Mike Spencer. I wish best of luck to the ICF Olson team. >> Yeah, thank you very much for having me. >> On the award this afternoon. You're a big winner in our books either way. Kieth Townsend, I'm Stuart Miniman. Thanks so much for watching the Cube. We'll be back with lots more. (electronic music)