>>Live from Washington, D C it's the cube covering Boomi world 19 how to buy bullying. >>Hey, welcome back to the cube. Lisa Martin with John furrier covering day one of Dell Boomi world 2019 we're in D C this year. We're not in Vegas. Pretty cool. Big news with fed ramp and Boomi. John and I are very pleased to walk them slalom gas, a couple of them saw them as both a partner and a customer. Please welcome Michelle ye practice area lead and founder slalom innovation for good. Michelle, great to have you. Thank you so much. Excited to be here and we have Shane Fisher solution principle, business applications and integration. Shane, welcome. >>Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate being here. >>So the Boomi World yesterday I know kicked off for partners with partner summit today kicking off for customers and everybody else with a lot of energy, a lot of excitement. But one of the things that Boomi talks Slalom about that solemn is involved in both is their 9,000 plus customers, which obviously you guys have a big hand in and 580 partners of which you guys are winning a number of partner awards over the last few years. She didn't. We're going to start with you and then we're going to get to the innovation for good. Michelle with you, tell us about some, you guys have some really outstanding use cases of where you're helping organizations implement Boomi. Tell us about Illumina, about the business overall and then we'll go into some of those use cases. >>Absolutely. So we are part of a group within slalom that really kind of focuses on, uh, business process, automation integration and things like that. And so we've had just the unique privilege of being able to help a number of life sciences customers in particular. Um, couple of that I'm super excited about are SightLife and Juno therapeutics. Um, you know, both, obviously with great missions, um, you know, Juno therapeutics, they're there, their mission and objective is to cure all, all kinds of lymphomas. Um, and you know, obviously that, that's a great mission, you know, that that just really makes you excited to go to work every day, you know, to, to be able to support that. >>So talk to us about, so I believe it's an immunotherapy company. Yes. Talk to us about what was their it environment like, as you know, on the one on there, they're processing all this data, patient data, wanting to probably get patients into clinical trials to evaluate new potential therapeutics, talk to us about their it environment. I imagine disparate systems, things not connected, give us that before picture and why slalom went in with Boomi. >>Absolutely. Um, so as you can imagine with any sort of startup, you know, even in like the life sciences space, um, you know, you start fairly immature. Um, you know, you don't have a lot of systems. There's a lot of manual processes. Um, you know, a lot of paperwork based processes. Um, you know, tracking patients, you know, manually or using bespoke, uh, you know, like to SQL databases, things like that. Right. Um, it's, it's kind of, you know, it's that necessary sort of bootstrapping that, that a lot of, you know, very early companies do. But then you get, you know, you reach a certain level where it's like, okay, we've got to grow up a little bit. And so what kind of, what started our journey, which, you know, is that they selected Salesforce as kind of that, that center to sort of collect patient data and be sort of that, um, you know, the first touch point, you know, when we first kind of, uh, you know, interact with the patient, um, and are able to kind of track them through their life cycle and give them the best service possible. Um, and obviously once you have Salesforce embedded into your, your infrastructure, now I need to integrate that. Right. And so that was kind of where slalom, uh, became involved, um, and went through a product selection. Um, Boomi came out, the clear winner, um, you know, not surprisingly. Um, and yeah, and we, we stood that up for them, you know, and, and started sort of connecting, you know, Salesforce to some of their other, you know, systems and automated. >>What were some of the reasons why Boomi was the winner? Was there certain categories you had focused on? Was it something specific around what they had? What was the use case that made them stand out? >>So I think speed of delivery and just ease of use are kind of the, the two main things that really stood out. Um, you know, particularly in this, in the Salesforce realm. I mean, Boomi just integrates so naturally and so easily with Salesforce. I mean it's, it's as easy as it could be, right? And so that was just a natural use case. Um, and then just, it's the speed of delivery, you know, being able to attack, crank through these integrations. Um, we heard a gentleman during the keynote talk about man integrations used to take like four months to deliver. And you think about it now, it's like, that is silly, but it's true. That's, that's, that's the world we came from. And so to have a platform that just makes it so much easier, so much snappier, particularly in a, in a, in a space where it's so important, like what the end goal is. So you get that patient care and you know, and get them the best medicine and stuff like that. >>Yeah. Well, and it's such a story that everybody on earth has been touched by. So Michelle, talk to us about Juno therapeutics as a great example of what you're doing with, with, um, the program tech for good innovation for good, but also give us a little bit of your interesting backstory on you had a personal connection to this. Tell us about that. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm, the solemn innovation for good team is only about three months old. So it's a pretty new capability. And what it really stems from is we're an extremely purpose-driven company. I think that's also one reason why we partner so well with Boomi, um, is because we share a lot of that passion together and we're trying to make the world a better place. Um, so, you know, one thing that we try to do is say, Hey, major not for profit. >>Whoever you are, we understand that you have the same challenges all of our other commercial clients do. So do you know, as a great example of I have information everywhere, how do I get this under control and get value out of that? And that's why this partnership makes so much sense. Um, and so we bring to the not-for-profits our expertise in technology, but then also our connections and partners like Boomi to the table to say, all right, what could we be doing to accelerate this person's mission or this organization's mission and do that, you know, using our strengths. Um, and so another client of ours for example, is American cancer society and very well tied to, um, do you know, therapeutics because actually immunotherapy is a huge opportunity, um, for newer treatments that are less invasive and damaging than chemotherapy. Um, and so my own personal story is of course, uh, I have a history of breast cancer in my own family. Um, and again, like you said, we've all been impacted by cancer. So helping clients like this through our technology is exactly what we should be doing. >>You know, one of the things that's interesting is there's a Renaissance of tech for good startups and yeah, we started reporting on this couple of years ago when we were in DC with Amazon. We saw that with cloud computing and the life cycle changes of delivery and integration that you can get off the ground with very little capital and you could also ran, you don't have to spend all your grant money. So there's a real Renaissance in entrepreneurial thinking in this area, which is now kind of spawning social investing, social impact. But actually businesses are getting to profitability. So what's, this kind of speaks to the Boomi ethos. I want to get your opinion on this. You guys are close to all this. Is that true? Do you believe that? What do you see? What's your thoughts on this wave of tech for good? I won't say philanthropy because people are building real apps and there's real value being created. Your thoughts. >>Yeah. So I can kick us off. Um, yeah. I think exactly as Shane was saying, our abilities. So if we can reduce time for integration, let's say to two months, three months, I don't know, for something simple as a POC, then, um, the speed at which we're changing the landscape is incredible. Um, and as an example, so we did some work with breast cancer images and using AI machine learning in the cloud, um, and we were actually able to reduce the time it takes to do that analysis from three years into a couple of hours in the span of three months. Wow. So when I think about like, okay, like it's not like this massive, okay, first we're going to do this three year integration plan, then when we're done with a three year integration plan, Oh, on the way now we can unlock AI and machine learning. It makes so much sense. Right? Exactly. Oh yeah. You know, all the money that the not for profits have. Right. So, um, you know, I, when I look at them like it makes complete sense that we should be capitalizing on this and transform that whole industry. >>Shane Renaissance, your thoughts and you what did you, what's your opinion? >>Yeah, absolutely. So I was just talking to a gentleman last night from a retail company who again, you know, a very similar story has launched his own private foundation and is using technology to do it, um, and an impact. Absolutely. Um, and there's so, there's so many companies out there that are doing this, um, you know, it's where they call it a responsible capitalism, you know, something like that. Um, and, and yeah, I think the technology is sort of enabling, uh, you know, more of that sort of behavior. If you think of it from a, you know, a classic pace layering standpoint, right? It's the um, you know, where do you want to spend your investment dollars? You want to spend that on infrastructure or do you want to spend that on the things that matter? And I think, you know, making the infrastructure and making these applications so much easier to work with is just unlocking all the rest of the, you know, the potential for, for, you know, just having a unimpactful >>the impact impact is a commercial impact for profit. People do that. That's what businesses do. Yeah. The workloads are workloads. The impact is impact depending upon what you're trying to do. This is the innovation that we're seeing. >>Yeah, absolutely. I'm one of the things too that Chris McNabb talked about this morning that's even more critical when we're talking about immunotherapy, American cancer society and organizations like that is shortening that time to value. John and I were talking about that in our open and when you're, we're talking about literally life and death situations and the element within an organization, the technology stuff where you can save even a couple of clicks for a workflow. There's this snowball effect there because as anybody knows, your family knows we've all been touched by cancer. There isn't time. You're racing against a clock. So that time to value in an example like this really speaks volumes about those outcomes that John was talking about. And I, I mean, I'd love to get your thoughts, Shane on, I feel like as the tools are evolving and becoming even easier and easier to use and we can democratize those insights faster and enable more and more types of people to leverage these technologies. So I don't know if you're seeing the same. Yeah, >>no, absolutely. And that, that sort of, that time to value is kind of, I was thinking about the SightLife use case as you were kind of talking about that, right. And this is literally where, you know, SightLife's mission is about matching, um, I donors to people that need them, right? Um, and you know, tragically, you know, people that lose their lives, but being able to harvest that, you know, those valuable, you know, eyes so that somebody can see every second counts in that, in that overall life cycle. And so if you can reduce that, which is what SightLife did, reduce that life cycle from like a 24 hour cycle down to hours. Um, you know, it's, it's impactful. I mean that's just has huge impact. >>And you're also helping, they have, SightLife has a goal. I was looking at my notes here of ending corneal blindness by 2040. So sh any element that they can possibly shorten in that entire is essential for them to achieve that goal. And I also was reading that the success rate of corneal transplants is very high. Yet the majority of those folks that need it are in areas that are low income, not as accessible. How can Slalom help site SightLife be able to achieve that goal of ending corneal blindness in that time? Like how is Boomi going to be a facilitator of that shortened time to value? >>Yeah, I mean I, from my standpoint, Michelle feel free to, to jump in as well, but um, it's a, it's about kind of exactly what you said, right? It's like finding those opportunities to reduce time. Um, and the other thing particularly in life sciences, right, is, you know, quality is a big, big deal. Um, and making sure you're matching, you know, the right patient to the, you know, blood types matching blood to blood. In the, in the Juno use case we call that the vein to vein process where they actually take the patient's blood ship into a manufacturing site, use their own blood and their, their, you know, their own immune system basically to manufacture a drug and then re-inject that into the patient. Imagine if you messed that up somehow. Um, you know, it's kind of a big deal. So >>we help give them that, that view. Cause we talk about John and I at every cube event that the cube covers, which is a lot data is always one of the number one topics of conversation. And we think, well it's the new blood, it's the new oil. It is. If an organization actually has access and visibility to it. And if the applications like Salesforce, ERP, blood bank applications for example, have the ability to leverage a single source of that data that's governed, that they can trust. How does Boomi facilitate that vein to vein process? For example, I'm just wondering, is there, from a master data hub perspective, is that one of the elements in our that's able to help those on the other end, be sure that the data that they're matching is indeed correct? >>Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a great question. Um, so right now, um, we haven't explored MDH yet at Juno. Um, but I think that's one of those things that may be coming at some point in the future. Um, we call it a chain of identity, right? Is ensuring that the blood that you took from the patient is the same blood that comes back essentially like tracking that through the entire life cycle. Um, and right now, you know, we're using the Boomi platform using Boomi integration to accomplish that. Um, you know, we logged sort of, you know, patient identifying information all the way through the chain, but we also redacted when we log because obviously there's GDPR, there's all these other, you know, regulations around that. Um, so there's a, again, in life sciences is a very interesting balance. You have to walk, you know there's regulations you have to follow and things like >>I'd love to get one last question for the people watching that aren't maybe changing careers or doing something entrepreneurial in social impact, your advice to them because people can see value, they see how path and get their funding requirements are lower. A lot more people saying, Hey, I'm not just doing good. I'm actually can make as a living a lifestyle choice or whatever reason, business reason. What's your guys' advice to folks thinking about making the change? Best practices, lessons learned, scar tissue, anything that you'd share for months or years to four months from four hours hardcore. How do you get this up and running quick? What's the best practice element? Michelle started on this one? >>No, I, I do have some advice. You know, I don't think it's necessarily an easy path to do this. However, I think it's much more feasible now to do it, especially with the speed of technology. And what I would say is, you know, it doesn't have to be a black and white, you know, situation where it's, I either do social good or a drive revenue. And I think at slalom anyway, and with many of these other companies, we have found operating models that support both. And I think if you maintain your passion but also your business mind and the technology sense and combine those, I, I think that's the way to go. >>Shane technical thoughts standing up stuff's cloud Boomi. Yeah. >>I mean it, it's, it's, it's a very wide and deep world out there. Um, but the thing that's so awesome, um, you know, I, I, I tell, um, you know, my directs this all the time, um, the opportunity to teach yourself things is like, at no other time, you know, in our world, uh, it, all the information is there. Um, yeah. Starting with Boomi itself, I mean, buoy verse, you know, you can go teach yourself whatever you need to know. Um, so I, I'd say, you know, follow your passions and, and you know, be a, be a fearless learner because the opportunities are there. Great insight. >>I like that. Be a fearless learner. Well, Shane, Michelle, thank you so much for sharing what you guys are doing at slalom and we look forward to hearing continued successes. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time. Thank you for Shane and Michelle and John furrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube from Boomi world 2019 thanks for watching.

>> live from Anaheim, California. It's the queue covering nutanix dot next twenty nineteen Brought to you by nutanix. >> Hello, everyone. You are watching the Cube and we are live at nutanix dot Next here in Anaheim. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host, John Farrier. We're joined by Michael Bushong. He is the vice president Enterprise marketing at Juniper Networks. Thank you so much for returning to the Cube, Your Cuba Lem. >> So thank you for this is this is awesome and you can't see it on the cameras. But this is a, like, just amazing. >> It's very We are in the clouds up here. It's a very high stage. Everything's coming full circle. >> Jim Cramer. Ask a little bit >> serious. Okay. >> Of course. I'm going to ask the tough questions >> going on. He's going to start slamming everything very soon, >> But we've known each other for a long time, Jennifer Going back ten years ago. So look, a tangle started. We're in our tenth year. You know, if you've seen the journey, I am a juniper. You left juniper startup brocade, then back to juniper. So you've seen that circle? You've seen the couple waves? I mean one of the things we were talking about before we came on camera was saw. Network fabrics to Dover had Juno's and then be anywhere. But you know, So this arrow, which became the ESPN Wave, are now suffer to find data center. So you've been in that journey is a product person. And now marking juniper, it's actually goes back about a decade. This whole esti n stuff networking. So what's What's the role now that you're doing? What's juniper doing? Why Nutanix? What's your story year? >> Sure. So I run enterprise marketing at Juniper, so my goal is effectively toe to make some of the hype makes sense, right? It goes back a decade. Actually, the early days of the only ESPN movement we didn't call it s tiene right. Juniper started with open flow and PC and alto and all these acronyms, and we actually, we're a great engineering company. Maybe not so great marketing company. And we actually call it network program ability. That didn't take off. But the technology's kind of endured. And I think what we saw was this lengthy incubation period to the point that now, as we sit here dot next in twenty nineteen. We're starting to see now some of the attraction of the last couple of years. That's a junipers general position. So we wantto dr Adoption. Certainly there's products and technology that underpins that, but But fundamentally, we're looking at a huge operational shift. And if that operational shift doesn't happen, then that's to the detriment of everyone in the industry. >> What's the relationship with NUTANIX? Can you talk about how you guys work together? What's the connection? >> Sure. So nutanix obviously does the whole hyper converge space. We provide the networking components to that. So whether that's the top Iraq connectivity, how do you get your traffic into the rest of the network? We've done some security stuff which we can talk more about. And then, if you look at the overall management piece, we've got integrations at the management policy layer as well. >> So your relationship you both got a very similar world view. How you see technology, you're both taken on VM. Where to? Can you talk a little bit about the relationships there and and why it works? >> Sure, fundamentally, if you look at what Nutanix is trying to do, it's this whole idea of one click. It ties ing everything right. They talk a lot in their keynote sessions. You hear the executives talk, You look at their collateral, the messages they take, the customers. It's about making things simple. Junipers Strategy is this idea of engineering simplicity. So just a top level? What's our purpose? What's our role in this industry at large? I think we have a very common worldview. Of course, driving simplicity is going to happen in the context of real architectural change on the change That's kind of everywhere is cloud and increasingly multi cloud. And so both Nutanix and Juniper about really driving simplicity in the context of Cloud multi cloud, giving customers the opportunity, toe run workloads wherever they need Teo without taking on additional operational burden. That's kind of cesarean unwanted in enterprises networking. >> So the Big Tran, this multi cloud you guys. That's a key part of the strategy. Dave along tonight and Stew Minutemen were arguing on the cute couple events ago. There are not one of our sessions about the hype around multi cloud. The reality of it. The reality is, is that everyone kind of has multiple clouds. It's not like that the clouds aren't talking to each other, and then we're just kind of riffing on the cloud is just big. One big distributed network, different computing, distributed networks. These air knew these aren't new paradigms. These are existing things that have computer science behind them. Engineering behind it. So juniper, you have been around for a long time. Connecting networks. The cloud is like some of the same concert on premise Hybrid Cloud and multiplied it basically a distributed network. It's all cloud operations. We get that, but the technology issue is not that hard, but I won't say that that hard, but it's similar to what you guys have done in the past. Just differently. How are you guys looking at that? Because multiple clouds, just like Internet working the switches routers, you move from packet that point A and point B get storage. His store stuff So concepts are all the same. How do you guys seeing the multi cloud opportunity within juniper? >> So I would make the distinction between multiple clouds and multi cloud? I agree with you. If you look at most enterprises, they have a workload in Amazon. They're using sales force, and so you know, they're multi cloud, right? They have multiple clouds, multi clouds, more of an operational condition. It's about taking disparate pools of resource is and managing. That is one thing. So think of it more about how you do stuff and less about where you host an application. If you look it even like describing Amazon, some people say, Well, Amazon is just, you know, Cloud is just using other people servers. It's not. You're not renting their servers. What you're leveraging is their operations. That's the transformation. That's this kind of underfoot. And so while some of the technology bits are common, the ability to do abstracted control moving to declare it over intent based management, right, these air right technology building blocks. What you're seeing now is the operational models are coming along, and that's really that's the change we have to drive on. I'll just kind of close with when you change technology. If it's just about deploying a piece of software, if it's just about deploying a piece of hardware like candidly, that challenge isn't that it's not that hard, right? We know how to deploy stuff when you start talking about changing how people fundamentally do their jobs. When you started talking about changing, you know how businesses operate. That's that's the piece that takes some time and I would venture. That's why you know, you look a decade ago why we're where we started. If you look at what's taking a decade, it's the operational change, not the technology piece >> and the cultural jobs movement. Certainly forcing function on that, which is awesome. And that's the tale when I think. And then again, Gene Came was on yesterday Who wrote The Devil's Handbook and also does that death. The Devil Enterprise. Someone said, We're three percent in. I would agree with him. I think it's so early, but But the challenge. I want to get your thoughts, Michael. And this is that Connecting multiple on disparity environments is great, but late in C kills now. So now late and see these air old school concepts, you know, get a time can't change the laws of physics. Right? So Leighton sees matters s l A's matter. So these air network challenges these air software challenges. What's your view on that piece of the puzzle? >> We leave when we say cloud, you know a lot of people probably think, um, you know, G C P Azure. They might think a WSB probably picture in your head, you know, some logically central cloud. First, we need to disavow people of the notion that cloud is this thing that somehow sits at the center of everything. It's not. There are centralized clouds. If you're optimizing for economics, that makes perfect sense. Tow To do that. There's distributed clouds. The whole rise of multi axis edge computing is about changing the paradigm from moving data to the application. Right. If your applications in Amazon and you're going to send your data there, that's one model Teo. Sometimes you might want to move the application to the data. If you have a lot of data like an i o t. Use case as an example, I was used oil platforms is a really good example. I don't know if you know, but you know how they get all their. They have all these mining and manufacturing bits. They've got lots of data. How did they get that data off the oil platforms? Snowball. So what they do is the helicopters come in, they take the drives off and they they they leave right. The reason they do that because if your reliance on satellite links just too much data, you can't statue >> is going to get a helicopter to ransom helicopter to come in, >> we'LL know when they're swapping the crew out every fourteen days, that's what happens. So here's the thing, right? If in that kind of model than the cloud, the data center exists on premises. And if that's the case, then when we think about you know kind of what the cloud is, cloud is, it's It's a lot. It's a lot more than what we most of us probably think about. Certainly, we see it with Outpost as a WS is starting to move on premises versions, and there's a lot of reasons you might wanna have a distributed cloud. Certainly it could be, you know, your comfort and security and control. There's real privacy implications, country of origin, so subpoenas can access your information depending on where it resides. >> What you're saying is, basically, it's all cloud. It's operational is the new definition. So you figured from an operational standpoint, Ops and Dev's That's it. The rest is just all connected somehow through the text, >> and then you need to have it. Yes. So we we understand the connectivity, bitch, you've gotta have the right, you know, elements. But if it's operational, it's about how do you do policy management? So part of the whole nutanix thing and kind of what drove us together was this idea that if I want a one click everything. If you could do that within the hyper converge space, you still have to do that over the connected environment, which means managing policy from a single location, regardless of where it is. And of course, using that policy to Dr Security >> and their strategy is to take what that worked for. The CIA and the data center move that into this new operator operating model, which spans multiple quote, disparity, environments or clouds or edges. It's similar similar concept, but different environmental. Yeah, >> that's exactly right. And so then what Nutanix needs that is a strong networking partner because they have tto do the bits that they do. They need other people to do the bits that that you know that we can do. We pull those things together and then you can provide essentially a secure environment for hybrid workload. >> So you guys embed it into their product? You guys joined cell together. Is it more of a partnership? How deep is the partnership with you With Nutanix >> s all just They'LL say yes, we get along s o and it kind of the most surface level you know, you need to have top Iraq switches. You gotta connect to the network and so we do qualification there. So if you deploy nutanix, you can deploy juniper alongside and that looks more like a kind of a co selling meat in the channel type model. Beyond that, if you look at how we provide security over like a workload environment, the question is, then you know what's the security element? So we've taken our virtual firewall. We cut our V s are axe, which essentially runs in the V M. And we can run it on a V, and so that gives them a segmentation strategies. So if you look it workloads that air distributed across the cluster by having a firewall element that we can enforce policy. Of course, that firewall element is then integrated with prism. So if I want to deploy these things when I spin up a new V M. What I want to do is spin up the security with it, and so you see management integration. Then if we continue this too, it's kind of full conclusion. We have, ah, product suite We call contrail in the enterprise version Contra Enterprise Multi Cloud, which is all about policy management and underlay management. And so, as we extend the partnership, it gives us additional opportunity to take um to provide routed elements which provide policy enforcement points and then to give us a way of managing policy over a diverse environment. >> And you guys can bring in that platform element for nutanix. Is there now a platform? They have a full stack of software on Lee. So you guys, you cannot take their stuff, put it there and vice versa. >> That's exactly right. So whether the workload resides in a ws on two or whether it resides kind of on premises in a jiffy, weaken one, we're kind of co managed and then to it gives us the security elements toe play across that >> one of the things that we're talking a lot about at this rinse it and at a lot of other events like it, it's sort of or the dark side of technology. We're at a time where major presidential candidates are talking about breaking up. Big tech were becoming much more aware of the privacy concerns. The biases that are built into algorithms. Exactly. I want to hear your thoughts as a technology veteran. Do you? Are you still a technology optimist or do you did? Does this stuff keep you up at night? I mean, how where do you fit your personal views? I was >> somewhat of a technology optimists, but I'm a skeptic when it comes to the people. I think if the technology existed in a vacuum, I think some of the problems go away. I think privacy is a major concern. I think it's going to shape regulatory action, especially in Europe. Well, so I think we'LL see similar actions in the US I don't have quite a strong connection to what's happening in Asia. Um, I think that the regulatory, the challenge I have from a technology perspective is that if the regulations come in the absence of understanding how the technology works, then you end up with some really terrifying outcomes on DSO I'm Sam. I'm a fan of the technology. I'm nervous of the people on that in terms of like, our overall Ruelas is cos here, I think, you know, we need to do a candidate a better job of, of making sure things land before we move on to the next big thing on DH. You know, we're talking cloud. We're ten years into cloud and people were always talking about the next frontier. To some extent, I think the world doesn't move as fast as we like to think it does. I don't think that the even like the mark, I'm in a marketing role. I don't think that the marketing hype necessary. I don't think it serves us by moving too far ahead because I will tell you when the gap between the promise and the reality becomes insurmountable e wide. I think it's Ah, I think I think everyone loses Andi. You run the risk of stranding an entire generation of people who who gets stuck behind it, and I don't you know, I'm nervous about about what that means, and I think it's you asked the question that you're the dark side. I think it's Certainly it plays out in our industry. I think it plays out. You know, there's a digital divide that's growing in the U. S. Based on broadband access. By the way, that's gonna widen with five G. I think it plays out between different nation states. So I Yeah, I don't know. I'm an optimist. Maybe I'm a pragmatist. >> Realist. >> Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm a little scared. >> Little cloud definitely happened, and that's a good point. And we took a lot of heat at looking ankle. Keep on the cube. Was too many Men in the team put out the first private cloud report People like this is nonsense. Well, well. And our thesis was clouds grade if you want. If you're in the cloud as a cloud native or, you know, new startup, why wouldn't you go on Amazon? Everyone, we did that. But if once you taste cloud operations, you go Wow. This is so much awesome. Right? Then go into a modern and enterprise. It's not going to be overnight. Change over. I mean, we might say it's going to take about a decade. We fell from the beginning that cloud operations once you taste cloud you realize this is a new operating model. There's a lot of benefits to that, but to change it over in the enterprise, and that turned out to be what everyone's now do it. But that was three years ago. >> Well, there's implications. So if its operations then operations is inherently an end end proposition, you can't have operations in a silo. Things like you're monitoring tools. How do you do cloud monitoring it on premises monitoring. How do you do workflow Execution? How do you do? You know, automation, whether that's event driven or even just scripted. If you have wildly different environments that require you to buy for Kate, your investment, then there's a very real There's a complexity that comes with that your people have tto do more than one thing that's that's hard. There's a cost that comes with that because you have different teams for different things. There's a lack of coordination. I don't think you unlock the value of cloud in that in that environment. And I think that operational pieces really around converging on >> Michael your point about people in technology. It's so right on. We see that all the time where I'm a technology Optimus. I love technology, but I totally agree that people can really destroy it looked fake news. It's just, you know, it's infrastructure network effect with bad content policy because Facebook's immediate company not a platform >> well, technology's only is good on our end are >> gonna run. The government don't even have the Internet work. So you know when you when you go to the cloud, same >> knowledge just also want the government to come away with that we do it >> where the government just doesn't know how the Internet works. Some people that do but like the good hearings, it's ridiculous. But you know, there's a real D o. D project going on future military Jet I contract. We've been reporting on where modern data driven application workloads. I could use a soul, cloud or multi class so that the dogma of what multi vendor was in the old days is changing. >> I don't I actually don't know if you look at multi cloud. If it's an end end proposition, then by definition it's also going to be multi vendor like there's no future where it's like end in all one vendor. I think we have to come to grips with that is an industry. But I think if you're clinging to your you know, kind of I want my single procurement vehicle. I want my single certification. By the way, I think if you believe fundamentally that incumbency is going to be that your path forward, I think it's a dangerous place to be. That's not to say that. I think the incumbents all go away. I don't There's a there's a heavy rule to play but certainly were going to open things up. And >> you see procurement modernized. I mean, I mean, government goes back to nineteen ninety five procurement standards, but either the enterprise procurement moving So the text moves so fast. Procurement still has rules from >> so no, I don't think all >> of the second right. >> Then there's a whole A procurement in our industry is driven by our peace. Our peace tend to be derivative. I take my last r p. I had some new lines. If you want Esti n so you take the cup copy and paste five hundred seventy four lines at the five hundred seventy fifth line. S T n. You're gonna end up in the same solution because the first five seventy four of the same I do think we should learn a little bit from what the big public cloud cos they're doing, which is, you know, tightening refreshed cycles, retiring things with as much passion as they introduced new things tightening up. Ultimately, what gets deployed? Maintaining diversity of underlying components so you could maintain economic leverage when you're doing procurement. But then solidifying on operationally streamlined model, That's I think that's the future. That's certainly what we've been on as a company. I think that's what we're betting on with Nutanix From a partnership point of view, I think we'LL be on the right side of change on that, and I think it's going to, you know, it may take some time to play out. That's where I think things go >> well. Michael Bushong. Always a pleasure having you on the Cube. Thank you for coming on. >> Thank you very much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. You are watching the Cube

>> Live from Mountain View, California it's theCUBE, covering DevNet Create 2019. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Okay welcome back everyone we're here live for day two coverage we're winding down at DevNet Create this is Cisco's, conferences theCUBE coverage I'm John Fourier, your host. Two days of coverage DevNet is the group the developer group DevNet Create in the never event that they bring together. We're here with Zeus Kerravala, principal analyst ZK research breaking it down with me we're going to do a debrief, break down what's happening at DevNet. Zeus great to see you thanks for coming on, let's wrap this up so what's going on with Cisco 'cause you know we've been following, I've known Susie Wee for many many years over a decade watching, what's happened is almost like I never would've thought this would have been possible almost like 10 years ago. Cisco the incumbent bought all these companies maybe lose grip on the networking, boom there's a renaissance with Cloud, they got their mojo, back developers repp in to the right a whole new changing of the guard. >> Well the network's certainly back and in fact I've been following Cisco a long time I was a customer Cisco section before I was an analyst and I've been following the developer initiatives at Cisco since 2001 the first time they tried and when Susie took this role I was as skeptical as they could be because I saw developer initiative failed developer initiative failed and I said it's not going to work the culture inside Cisco is not ready for it and behold, you know a few years later after all our hard work almost six hundred thousand members I'd say it's working I think one of the trends that's actually helping Cisco is that the IT in the world's kind of come to them I think they spend a lot of along time on the outside looking in that you know being a major strategic IT partner that was more the compute vendors the application partners but if you look today at the trends digital transformation the technology that are driving that are things like Internet of Things, Mobility, Cloud computing and Artificial Intelligence and those are all Network centric paradigms so in a way we you know we live in a world where everything's connected and think about it your own personal life John what can you do without the network, you can't watch movies, you can't play games, you can't read books, you can't do anything without the network and so the network has never been more important and Cisco's finally opened their network up to the point where developers can actually build things on top of it so you know they used to talk about the network being a platform and it was really just a platform other Cisco stuff but now it's truly a platform for others to create on it to add value. >> I mean I think it's one of you're totally right on that I think it's create analysis because it's like hey they didn't really screw it up there they didn't such a great strategic position as a supplier to the network's and it was like they wake up, oh my god we're in good position here why don't we just take advantage of the fact that everything's networked, network effect, social networks, network constructs you're totally right I think this is a game changer but then how do you explain the success now, I mean obviously new leadership, was it a leadership change, was it a realization, what's your analysis of the Susie as a team, she was a catalyst, what was the real turning point in your mind? >> Well I think leadership change was part of it and in fact part of the very first thing one of the very first things Chuck Robbins ever said to me when he took over as CEO, he promised me that Cisco would listen to customers and if there's something that's good for customers, Cisco wanted to lead that effort and you could argue that historically they weren't really on board with things that might have been bad Cisco but good for customers, now they are and one of the trends that in order for DevNet to work one of the things you have to do, is open up the network and conceptually you might think well if we open up the network now we might put ourselves in a competitively weaker position but ultimately that's good for customers you can build applications that add value to that network and so I think the big culture chip with Cisco came in with Chuck Robbins their new CEO it's not so new anymore, but a willingness to listen to customers be open and allow others to co-create on the network and that's really been the foundation for DevNet and Susie taken the ball and run with it. >> She's got the chops, technical chops MIT background understands tech knows research, knows how to make it real, she's done that but it's also the wave that they're on to, they've got some waves that are really in their favor, that's right in great position, I mean IoT you couldn't ask for the edge of the network exploding an opportunity now more than ever I mean it's been over, Cisco you always heard over the years we got to move up to the stack, there's now the full, got to go to the edge and push beyond the edge now you got power at the end you got tons of opportunity, OT, Operational Technologies, the software is kind of all built for hardware, you got IT connected devices in an IoT with GPUs on them, I mean come on, and then Wi-Fi sits over the top, >> I think one of things IoT done is its democratized the edge, if you think historically about the value of the network was commonly thought that the closer you get to the data center, the more value the network had, the branch edge less value more edge but now you've got a user edge, client access edge, an IoT edge, branch edge or wireless edge, there's is so many edges now and we're are creating data at every one of those points and what that means, we need to do analysis we need, you know to be able to do with Machine Learning at those points we need access to the data we need to be able to develop in those points and so the whole network has now been democratized where I feel there's not one part of the network that has more valuable it's all valuable and DevNet allows customers be able to tap into that. >> Can we just give it all those IoT names, called the network. >> Well that's what essentially what it is, that's a big shift for the industry to start thinking about the wireless network and the wired network and the data center network and you're right it is just one network and it needs to be treated that way. >> And on-prem Clouds still got to move packets from A to B, store stuff as well, states important all these things are coming back it's not really changing what distributed computing used to be so you know given that being said Cisco has a position. I want to get your thoughts on something that some we talk about here at the event not many people in mainstream might get this or not, I want to get your take on it. Having the portfolio of products all have api's is the potential game changer across the board what's your analysis of what that could possibly turn into because you know having things with api's on them every device is only going to create more connections of data to other devices to share and compose and create data what's the impact for the people watching that it might be in wall street saying what's the impact of having api's on every single product? >> Yeah I think it turns Cisco into a platform company and I think you're right it is a game-changer for the company. I think historically Cisco value was driven by the Cisco product, the product portfolio, it's like the routers the switches things like that, now that they've opened up their API is you're going to start seeing small software companies, large software companies systems integrators ISPs all building things to run the Cisco network and that creates a fantastic pull through effect the fact that was talking with one of the Cisco earlier today about when they do get pulled through, the cost to sale goes way down because the application partner that pulls them through so their cost to sale is really just whatever they pay out to the application vendors, it's very very low so their margins will go up you'll see them in bigger deal sizes and when you're part of that application ecosystem there's not as much tendency to pound the vendor for discounts right, so I think it puts this on a much more strategic position because now they're a part of something bigger, they're part of company transformation, they're part of application transformation and that will have a significant impact both on revenue but more important on margin company will start making more money. >> That's a great point on the pull through and sales cost impact a margin but also if you also factor in first of all great analysis but I want to get your thoughts on the ecosystem impact is the conscious i've been having with solution providers they're like, well hey I'm coming into retail and I'm coming into manufacturing in healthcare and I'm actually deploying solutions. I'm getting higher margins on my stuff. So you have contribution value going value contribution going to the partners as well not just on the Cisco. >> That's important 'cause Cisco company it's a partner led company of ninety percent of their sales go through their partner channel and for them they're always want to drive more value into that and I think for the resellers too, for their partners they need to understand that if they embrace DevNet, they embrace a lot of the applications, they are going to have more strategic relationships with their customers, their deal sizes will go up, they'll have better margins and it'll put them in a better position as well. So I think the loyalty that you see in Cisco's channel will continue to grow and frankly nobody's got the size, the install base that Cisco has so it's hard, it's really going to be hard to compete with them. >> Let me get your thoughts on as a study of the industry the horses on the track, you got other competitors you got good opportunities for expansion with Cloud Multi-Cloud, but I'm not sure that they might see the clear visibility yet into the financial impact of Multi-Cloud, so the question is what point do they start cannibalizing and eating their own to get that pole position as the battle ship of the big move happens with Cisco is that is they have this company transformation they have really huge revenue streams in other markets, Telco is that's disrupting, okay. Multi-class so when do they start cannibalizing and eating their own to bring in the new, is that on their minds, 'cause i just see there might be some antibodies that might be inside Cisco trying to say well this Cloud things not yet proven or let's see the revenue visibility into the Cloud. >> Yeah I think there's probably some of that inside Cisco and you'll have some fighting between groups. But I do think it's a net additive Cisco, I think you wind up what what the Cloud does is it makes you want network services and more places. I want, I need a network, I certainly can't get rid of my network if I'm connecting to the Cloud right they need to connect to it, but then I'm going to want to have the Cisco portfolio and network services available in Amazon or Google or Microsoft Azure and they have relationships with those companies, so I'm sitting away what it does is it takes what Cisco started on the company premise and it extends it up to the Cloud and so ultimately, what customers want almost every large enterprise they want, want some kind of hybrid environment, but the environment has to look the same on-prem in the Cloud and I think Cisco is a good position to be able to bridge that gap and so I you could look at it as cannibalizing, I don't really think it does. I think it's a net additive to Cisco, I think internally they may need to restructure things in order to get some of the business units that might be affected on board with that but ultimately it's-- >> Some tweaks basically not hardcore wholesale changes >> No they've already done a lot of tweaking. If you look the leadership team that some place now is completely different than five years ago. So they've done a lot of realignment and a lot of tweak and I think they're ready for this. >> Horses on the track, competition, Cisco's in good place Multi-Cloud seems like a great play, Multi-Cloud, internetworking was a big, Coax cables head hubs, you had subnets it sounds like Multi-Cloud might be a great similar trajectory of what internetworking was as a segment. Multi-Cloud might seem like a perfect fit for Cisco. >> Yeah well multi-Cloud extends the the current network out to the multiple Clouds and I think what what's important understand there is it does raise the bar on complexity a Multi-Cloud network is going to be more complicated to run than a plain simple On-premise network but Cisco's this is where a Cisco software business is important, DNA Center they've done a lot of work in that area to to mask a lot of complexity so if customers that use DNA center they're going to be able to use that software interface as a way to manage it and so now instead of having to configure every box one by one and I was a network engineer I do that now you do it in one central location and push it out everywhere, if I had that I would have had a lot more free times. >> Yeah, since you're a network engineer I used to do those wide area networks myself back in the day command line in telnet it into boxes all that good stuff, when you look at the vision of programmability of networks which I love that term by the way. I've always loved even when Juniper had Juno so originally that overlay love software mixing in. I love this notion of programmability not yet fully understood but it makes sense. How do you think that's going to play out? Looking back, are we going to look back in time saying hey you know 2019 this was a seminal moment or was it not seminal moment? How important is this programmability going to be for Cisco in the industry? >> Well it's extremely important as a way to be able to automate network functions and I talked a lot of the DevNet people here I think they're starting to warm up to automation, I think there's a little bit of trepidation at first that's hey it's going to take my job but I think what's happening to IT people today is there's so much to do that they simply don't have time to do a lot of what they did before you know what it's like if I'm running a legacy Network, I'm literally configuring every box one by one. So if I got a thousand branches, I'm going to make a change, I got to hit a thousand boxes right, that's not very efficient so now I can do it in one place and push it out across and so I think what programmability does is it lets me automate and orchestrate things better to the point where the network should be able to run itself and now as an IT person I can go focus on more strategic initiatives. I'll give me an anecdote from a CEO I talked a little while ago this is a few months ago. He said my IT department is becoming less and less relevant to me and I need them to become more relevant, I need them to help me innovate but they can't because they're busy running the day-to-day, I need them to find a way to offload that and that's what programmability does. It lets you offload the things that aren't strategic right my advice to IT people is if you're doing things today there aren't strategic to your resume or your company, don't do them find a way to automate them and that's where programming. >> And giving good cost structure in line but driving revenue is a great resume boost. (laughing) >> No one's going to hire you because you can configure that ACLS through that command line faster than the next guy, that's not a strategic way to drive your-- >> Are we're going to see you obviously at Cisco live as well? >> I'll be at Cisco live. >> Great love to get your perspective in summary, put a bow around DevNet, I'm a big fan of Susie and her team I've seen it from day one, yours as well, what are they going to do next I was they got a good success formula here. How do they scale it, how do you see them taking this inside Cisco and continuing to explode it internally as well as externally what's your view on what they what they should be doing? >> Well I think it's reached critical mass and I think there was a couple of things they had to do to get to this point. One was obviously build the user base but also get DevNet relevant across the portfolio and it is that everything from collab to data center security. I think looking at ahead what's next, is they got to find a way to get the general Cisco salesperson to be able to sell this to understand the value which I'm not so sure it's there and also they have a massive partner community as you talked about all the resellers, this has to now become part of that partner sale, the partners need to understand if I sell the concept of some of these advanced applications that run on top of it, I'm going to have better feel for myself and so I think now it's about the structures in place, now it's about executing to be able to get the kind of exponential value out of this. >> This is really operationalize it to the next level, is it on a startup budget, did it create success, thanks for sharing that great commentary. They're breaking it down here in the end of the game, games over, end of DevNet Create third year we've been cover the beginning while in Susie journey following Cisco as developers become more important in the modern era of new applications where network programmability will be an advantage, this is the future they're betting on Cloud computing, AI, GPUs on all devices, API is everywhere, this is the Cisco strategy it's theCUBE coverage signing off from Mountain View, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)