>>live from Washington, D. C. It's the Cube covering Bumi World 19 Do you buy movie? >>Welcome back to the Cubes. Coverage of Bumi World 19 I'm Lisa Martin with John Ferrier. John and I have a couple of gents joining us. To my right is Jeff Emerson, the global managing director for Custom Application Engineering Ethics Center. Hey, just hey, welcome. Thank you were glad to tell you, and we've got Steve would back with us. The CPO up. Hey, Steve, >>Hayley says. Ages >>minutes. You sticking into some research about that? The history of Bumi and Ipads and just looking at how the consumer ization effect has infected by a bad word has really infiltrated has that every industry organizations went from having enterprise applications. Legacy applications, cloud applications, custom applications. Let's talk about custom applications. What are you seeing in the customer marketplace for the demand for having this level of customization, whether it's a retail or or, you know, utilities company, >>it really doesn't matter what industry it is these days. Custom applications were going through a renaissance. It is. It is truly the renaissance of custom, where there was once a swing towards enterprise applications and the packages and so on. And now it's realized that oh gosh t separate ourselves from our competition. We have two great something that doesn't exist well, that is, by its nature, a custom application. And so these air coming up, Maura and Maur across the industry, and it's really starting to dominate the value chain for software. >>You were here in D. C. And public sector is going through a modernization as well. He looked at government procurement. I mean, essentially with data, everything's instrumental. You have unlimited resource with cloud computing. So essentially personalization. Hot trend. So applications air being personalized. They're customized. So every app should be not general purpose unless it's either under the covers. So this is the country's We've been having you guys. Bumi has a platform. You enable APS? You guys are deploying it. How are customers responded to this? Because to me they might go Will custom haps me, feels expensive. It feels one off the old adage. It's a one off, but it seems to be coming back. >>It does end. Fact is, you're able to do things so much more quickly today than you ever have been able to in the fast in the past and three ability to create new experiences quickly and react in an agile fashion to how those applications are being received in the marketplace. React to the data that is generated both as the primary data and the data exhaust from those systems to determine what your customers need, what they want, how they're going to act, what they're going to buy. All of those things are things that we can pull together so much more quickly today than we could ever in the past. And so it's great. >>Steve, We were talking earlier about how the data's real big part of the equation. Now everything about the application world it used to be the infrastructure would dictate what you could build. Yeah, now you have application developers saying, This is what I want now the infrastructures so programmable it's kind of flipped around that they're dictating kind of terms. >>Well, there's suddenly being this sort of emergence of these low code platforms to kind of help manage that. I mean, and they're kind of taking care of a lot of the infrastructure so you can kind of skill them is needed, but yeah, I mean, there's been a him. It's been a huge birthday. I couldn't agree more. There's like the demand for applications. We're seeing a lot. Sure there's the mega applications. We tend to leave those to our sister company Pivotal toe code those with this whole other ecosystem of applications everywhere. The personalization sze of the line of business needs to improve. Their business processes were going after that layer. We have to do it in the right way to make it super easy to do on the infrastructure that people expected to be with the architecture they expect to see. So they're highly customizable, so get exactly what they want. >>Jeff, you know, we always talk on the industry joke on the Cube, and the game is changed, but it's still the same. And every time a new trend comes, you know it's the death of something. A meteorite media to say something's dying when something new starts right. But nothing really changes everything about applications. It's the same gain just with a different twist. Do it with cloud. How are customers were spouting this? Because obviously his benefits business benefits cost benefits lot of mount up line with how they're attacking the application development. Then they got a data tsunami happening. But they gotta build APS, right, Not anything, right? >>It was once said that absolute in the world, and now it's really that data is feeding the world right? And so the amount of data that's out there and accessible and usable within applications is absolutely incredible. And so, with the emergence of the cloud in order, Thio support those massive amounts of data and Dr Rapid Development and then lo code to make that development much easier. These things all time come together, and you talked about the death of X, y or Z. We talk now about living systems, right on living systems are things that are easy to modify, their absolutely attainable and usable and expandable for for any kind of use and ultimately adaptable. >>So John mentioned the word one off a minute ago, and it reminded me of something where, you know, whatever industry that you're in, Not too long ago it was customers got some one off. Whether it's an application or part of the infrastructure, that's expensive, and it's not something that can be monetized but down to your point it's it's really custom. Applications are a big part of a business. Is competitive advantage. So what is it about the customized app? Is it Is it the fact that it's driven by an A P I? That's programmable that allows it to be customized at scale toe, where it's not a one off from a support perspective, it's something that really a company can use as that competitive leg up. >>Right in the this livings living systems world. We really have agile engineering, agile methods and so that we're doing development quickly. And we're doing this in an engineering fashion that has micro service's and small pieces of functionality that could be grabbed and plugged and played together. Thio great, different experiences. And so that granular ization of software is something that drives his flexibility and enables us to make modifications and updates quickly. >>Actually, ive your customer example that it was something we'd done, which is absence of term it like how the oil and gas industry saved nurses in Africa are saved people in Africa, which is we built, a solution that allowed them nurses in sub Saharan Africa to visit patients out in the field. They built it on a loco pa from witches. Flow part of me connected through a P eyes connected to all the infrastructure. But a lot of the work was on, uh, android tablets offline. So with the loco PA from that could deliver this solution with all offline capabilities, all the connectivity, all the integration, all built in without writing. Really any code? The only code there rose to customize the look and feel so looked exactly what they want. They delivered that on early version of our offline framework and then latterly the oil and gas industry origin energy deployed a similar solution to their rigs. The lot of you seem really complicated things of form, validation and better validation rules and better data synchronization that really forced us to improve our offline framework to something which is a Steve a big jump ahead of where it was before. And then lo and behold, the nurses nafta came back to us and said, Well, actually went up, Did or are we gonna run on desktops as well as ipads? Funnily enough, and we're like, Well, good news. We've actually already added that support. And so literally from three days of that phone call to them going live within our laptops and ipads. That was all it took. They didn't have to write any CO. They literally We just give them access to the new you. I will find framework. They installed it, turn off the wet. And that's kind of the power of this kind of next gen of up building that for this kind of line of business applications where you just need to innovate, how you work, you don't have to spend three years rebuilding those for iPad and >>Jeff houses. That dynamic, which is pretty much, I think, consisted a lot of these new APS. How's it changed your business? Because you know the theme that we've been identifying the mega trend is that there's more project work going on fast time to value, agile. You guys been doing exceptional work there and following Madu Center's been doing talking to Paul Doherty amongst others. Get a huge data science team you guys are on. I know you guys have transformed but big project and now a bunch of little projects going on, so it's kind of have to make you guys more agile as a practice because you've got to go out and solve the business problems with the customers. How is this dynamic changed? >>You're right. We absolutely do. And we have to assume muchas anything. It's helping our customers get into that mode of thinking as well. What was once a six months of gathering and documenting requirements is now done in a handful of ours. At first to get the first small bit of what's gonna be valuable functionality to put out there. And you keep doing that irritably. Overtime is instead of in a six month period, but then gets thrown over the wall. Thio have other people do this for another build stuff for six or nine >>months. I mean, the federation and getting those winds early gets proof points, gets mo mentum validation. You're not waiting for a gestation period. >>You make good decisions about what to do next on DDE. What to not do that you were planning on doing but turns out, doesn't mean >>I want to get your thoughts on something important you mentioned humanization. We see that big trend because Avery people centric and you're thinking at Bumi and we've had this debate in the queue we? We didn't come in on either side yet, but you know it orations great, great, fast. But the old days of software was a lot of craftsmanship involved, you know, crafting the product, getting it right now it's ship be embarrassed, ship it fast and then injury, which is great for efficiency. But there's a trend coming back to crafting product. They're absolutely. What is your thoughts on this? Because craft Manship is now design thinking. Would it be calling in different names? But this is a new thing. It's happening all the time. >>That software software craftsmanship is something that is more important today than it ever has been. Because you're going fast. And because you're putting things out into the market very quickly, you can't afford to make big mistakes, right? You could make functional decision mistakes, right? Oh, that wasn't the right thing for the customer, but having it not work or creating it bad experiences, right? Very bad, right? And so that craftsmanship building in all the Dev Ops pipelines and the error check in the testing and gateways and security checking all that happens automatically every time you check in code that is critical and it drives that craftsmanship back to the developer, right? Pushing left so that you make a mistake. You fix it within minutes, as opposed to >>you. Run private engineering, Smile on your face. Come on, What's your angle on this >>time? And craftsmanship is obviously huge mean? When we thought about like Bumi, we kind of wanted to make sure that yeah, that way we used to talk a little bit. No code platforms. And I think that what they did was they left out the craftsmanship that developers could do. And I've kind of thought it was like, Hey, if you can put like the business or the person who really understands the process of the application into the beating heart of the creation process so they could be on the right side of the soft waiting the world like they could be a creator and producer as much as they could be a consumer of applications, you allow them to do that and then let developers have radiate that that out with new engage with models, coding out new experiences that really hyper specific to the EU's case of the user. That's kind of the ultimate you get the core business value, and then you get the craftsmanship of the engineers together, I think, >>and I'm glad you said that because there's so many cases where here, we want to push it so that we don't even need software engineers for our software. And that's an interesting idea. Yeah, but it's actually not a good idea. Ll know or idea, Yes, simply because you there's an important aspect of software and and how I t runs that even if you have low coach, uh, components in order to drive the functionality right, these things that have to be done. But frankly, professional software engineers know how to do. >>It's better and faster and easier to do it that way. >>I think the federation certainly makes the problem that you're trying to solve. Solvable, right? Don't take your eye off the main ball, which is saw the problem, but get it elegantly designed all right, but I think that's a good This is a big discussion. You're seeing a lot with loco. So again, this is back. The custom maps custom APS just means a targeted app that solves a specific problem because it is a unique problem and it's different than the other one, right? That's the speed game. It's a speed game to nose in it that fast, fast, fast. >>And the engineering methods have changed really over the last couple of decades. While I've been doing this. Where way talked a moment about ago about the waterfall ways and then the agile ways. And the simple fact of the matter is that you're developing small pieces of software to get out into the market quickly, and you can do this in a matter of days and weeks. A supposed to months and quarters >>right, which many businesses don't have that time for company competitors gonna get in there. I'm curious as the development methods have changed so dramatically have the customer conversations like Are you guys talking more with business leaders vs You know the Guys and Girls and Dev Ops is that is this movie business little conversation that a CEO CFO, a CEO is involved in? >>So from our perspective at Accenture that the technology is always there to drive a business need, and so that conversation is first with the business owners, and that was true 20 years ago as well. The a CZ much as we do. I t transformation. It's a business lead. I transformation and, more often, technology supported business transformation. >>Excellent. Well, guys, thank you for joining John and me on the program today. Talking about all the things that you guys are seeing out in the field. Exciting stuff. >>Thanks for having us. >>We appreciate your time. Thank you for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Bhumi World 19. Thanks for watching.