>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18. We are theCUBE, we are the leader in live tech coverage. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Dave Vellante. We're joined by Jason Wojahn. He is the managing director global ServiceNow practice lead at Accenture. Thanks so much for your, your returning guest. You're a CUBE veteran. >> Yeah, many times. >> Many time CUBE alum. >> Yes, >> Thanks for noticing. >> Back in the early days. >> But for those who have not had the pleasure of watching your CUBE clips, can you explain what your role is and what you do at Accenture? >> Sure, I'm the global ServiceNow practice lead at Accenture, I'm responsible for our global capabilities in ServiceNow for the company of Accenture. So you know, everything to do with ServiceNow from our consulting capability to our training capability. At Accenture we also have, kind of, what we call three estates of ServiceNow. We have the CIO estate, I know you had Andrew Wilson on theCUBE yesterday, and of course we are a fully deployed ServiceNow customer in our CIO's office. One of the top 10 customers of ServiceNow. We also utilize ServiceNow in our AO, IO, and PBO lines of business. Now in that case that's a go to market relationship where we're selling things like HR outsourcing that is platformed and delivered on ServiceNow and of course last but not least our consulting capabilities. Just over 3000 skilled ServiceNow resources across the world What makes us the largest practice for ServiceNow in the world as well. And those are our three estates of ServiceNow in Accenture. >> So don't hate me for saying this but when we first started following ServiceNow I remember Frank Slootman said to me Dave, this thing is a rocketship. We're going to blow through a billion dollars. We're going to be the next great software company. And one of the things Jeff and I said was well, the ecosystem has to grow. There were companies like Cloud Sherpas which nobody ever heard of which were specialists in the space. Now you fast forward five, six, seven years, Accenture gets into the game, other big SI's have gotten into the game and it is the real deal. It feels like the next ERP of the modern era. >> In my view there are three main big surges going on in the ServiceNow ecosystem and you can kind of tie them back to the CEO's. So you had the early day with Fred Luddy of course, kind of the zero to 150 million stage of ServiceNow. of course when Frank Slootman came in in the 2011 time frame you know you have the next big surge, see them getting IPO ready, you see them really ruggedizing their commercial selling capabilities, their delivery methodology capabilities, etc., and then we move all the way to today and with John Donahoe you see the third surge. And here you see every GSI on the planet wanting to do something with ServiceNow for a lot of the reasons that I just discussed. I mean ServiceNow has been a terribly strategic tool in Accenture across multiple aspects. Of course our go to market aspects, our consulting aspects and of course our internal use of the platform as well. >> It's not easy for software companies to reach escape velocity, certainly many of them can become unicorns and have a billion dollar valuation. It's really hard for them to get to a billion dollars of revenue. ServiceNow has blown through that. They'll probably do three billion or close to it this year. So they really are, in many ways, the next great software company, but you know, VMWare got there, Red Hat obviously doing really well. What are your perspectives on the software ecosystem? I mean, personally I think it's great that we see more competition but there seems to be always this pressure to consolidate. What's your sense of what's happening now? >> Well you see a lot of consolidation that ServiceNow is doing to round out their capabilities as a platform and I think that's terribly important. That's how people want to consume technology right now so we spend a ton of time at this event and you've heard ServiceNow as well, talking about experience management, service management, you know trying to get things away from, you know how do I do this and going to why would I do this versus how. And of course you utilize platforms to really set that tenancy. When you got platform like ServiceNow that has the ability to turn on intelligent automation machine learning capabilities across your platform, the ability to turn on chatbox across your platform, analytics across your platform, knowledge across your platform and of course manage your workflow the way they do with portals, etc. I mean there's no reason to go somewhere else but more importantly, the strategy underneath it you know ServiceNow is an outcome of something that's very important. You can't use AI, you can't use Chatbox, you can't automate if you don't have what we call a lake of data, a data lake. You've got to have that kind of single source of information so that you can do those compounded workflows and get that automation benefit and then when you start laying things like AI, machine learning, intelligent automation, chatbox in there, actually you have to have the data in there to make the suggestions, right, to do the modeling and the analyses to find those opportunities. So I think what you're going to see and what you're actually seeing right now is consolidations on platforms. And those platforms are kind of being used as a ubiquitous glue code for everything else behind the infrastructure and really looking at you know, this is the employee first experience. This is where the last yard of the field is being delivered to the individual. >> The red zone. >> Yeah. >> So the timing of the Accenture acquistion was actually fortuitous because it coincided with ServiceNow's push into the rest of the enterprise. Accenture obviously deep into lines of business, board levels, C-Suite, etc. Talk about how that's changed the whole relationship motion with your customers, how you've gone deeper and describe, sort of, that dynamic. >> Yeah, so, obviously within Accenture our diamond clients are paramount to the way we run our business and who we are as a business and what's great is we're seeing more and more of those clients where they have comprehensive relationships with Accenture, bringing ServiceNow to bear in that conversation and actually, again, using it as an overarching capability to help get things done better. You know it can be very austere to sit at a Cebol console or an Oracle console or those types of things. We're actually using ServiceNow to kind of keep that from having to happen but you're doing the same transaction on the back end. And again, like I said, you know, once you get some of those data points in there it tends to kind of start to gain some momentum because you get a little bit of automation here or a little bit of automation there and then suddenly that connects you to other aspects of the enterprise and other consolidation points. >> What makes Accenture different, you got all the SI's are now in, elbowing their way in. We want a piece of the action. Why Accenture? >> Well the ego in me says it's because we're number one. We have the largest single certified pool of resources across the globe. There's nobody bigger than us. There's nobody that does more influence revenue than ServiceNow, than us and there's no one with higher customer satisfaction than us We actually got that award two days ago from ServiceNow. So if you value those things, that's why you should work with Accenture. But more importantly than that we've really spent a lot of time making sure that we're doubling down on our methodologies, we're doubling down on our thought leadership, we're leveraging our capabilities that we're you know, trialing and piloting in our CIO's office across the 450,000 person company called Accenture. We're obviously leveraging the things we learn in our AO, IO, BPO practices where we have embedded ServiceNow into those go to market services. But we're bringing that all back to our consulting practice and it's a creed of to not only the way we handle CIO, AO, IO, BPO, but a way we handle our customers from a consulting perspective as well. >> It's the customercentric approach. >> Jason: It is, it is. >> Well Jason thanks so much for coming on the program. It's always fun to have you on theCUBE. >> Thanks a lot. >> Dave: Great to see you. >> Thanks. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18 in just a little bit.

>> Live from Orlando, Florida It's the que covering service now. Knowledge seventeen Brought to you by service now. >> Welcome back to Sunny Orlando. Everybody, This is the Cube, the leader Live tech coverage. My name is Dave Volonte, and I'm here with my co host, Jeffrey Walter Wall coverage of service now. Knowledge seventeen. Jason, Johannes. Here he is. A long time cube along Lamis, a managing director at Accenture. Jason, great to see you again. >> Thanks so much. Appreciate it. >> So when Jeff and I did our for our first service now knowledge in twenty thirteen, we walked around the floor. We saw a company called Cloud Share pose. Uh, we said, you know, for this company to become a billion dollar company, they really have tto evolve the ecosystem, and that's exactly what's happened. But But before we get into that, take us through how you got to Accenture. >> Yeah. So let's see, I had an eleven year career Att. IBM decided tto leave that for no good reason other than to go try something new and way were responsible for a small company called Navigant. Nah, Vegas was one of the first service now partners in the ecosystem. We thought maybe if we had a few good years there, we might pick up some VC funding or something like that. Things moved a lot faster than we had expected. And one one twenty, thirteen We're required by Cloud Sherpas. I became president of service now, Business Unit was a new line of business in Cloud Sherpas, which was really aspiring and was a cloud services brokerage across sales force, Google and service. Now and then, of course, the good news here at the twenty fifteen, we move on to extension er and then I get the opportunity to lead the global platform team for service >> now at Accenture. So before we get into that, when you were a navigates, did you ever do a raise or did you not have two? >> Didn't have to be police tracked it all the way through. So >> what sort of people in our audience are always interested in fascinated the entrepreneur get started? That was with sort of customer funding and sort of getting getting projects, >> you know, it started like a lot of partners did at that point in time. I mean, really, the ecosystem was served by partners nobody ever heard of. Right, And, uh and so they all started kind of one deployment at a time and you see some companies that might have been doing implementations for other it some tools or something of that nature started to gravitate to this thing called service hyphen now dot com at the time, right? And, uh, couple logo changes elimination of Iife in later. Here we are over a billion dollars in the service now ecosystem and on their way to four billion by twenty twenty. >> And you guys were there early. So what advantages that did that give you? >> So I think what it taught us early on is kind of how to build, uh, and create service now, consultants, which was, you know, something that the very little of the ecosystem had at that point in time. Um, it wasn't is quite a straightforward. It's just saying, Let's take somebody who did Platform X or or, you know, application Why? And go, you know, go work on service now The first people that were rolling through while they had big company logos, they they did tend to be early adopters and those types of folks that would be kind of earlier in line. So, you know, there's kind of a whole different requirement. Hold this a different necessity. At the time, I would say two thousand, two thousand. It was really kind of the anti other platforms or other tools kind of crowd. And then we move into where we are today, which is, you know, market leading Sim tool moving rapidly into other spaces. HRC sm etcetera. So >> do you find they're still on expertise? Shortage in the marketplace? And >> there is >> How are you feeling? Not >> so. I consider US Foundation Lee a learning organization. We were back then, and we are now with over a hundred certified trainers on service. Now we had fifty of them here at the event, training on behalf of service, now largest of any partner, and we've turned that internally. So while we've very publicly recently made several acquisitions, one in Europe one in Germany are UK, Germany and, of course, Canada. We also organically, in the last fourteen months, crew Accenture's sort of Haitians more than one hundred thirty percent. So we have that training capability, and we can use that to incubate our next consultants that our next certified resource is on the platform. Did you guys know platforms are so broad? You really have to, you know, be broad and deep to be successful, like kind of scale we're at right now. And so it's important that we're kind of climbing down as deep as we can the platform as quickly as possible since Agent and did a century by Cloud services an accelerator or really, Was that there their first kind of big play with service? Now there's quite a big business case around it, because at the time he was a sales force company of with company and a service down company. So I think the answer is a little different for each of the platforms. But I'LL give you the service now platform. So what we did is we took a practice in Cloud Sherpas that was about the same size of centuries practice, and we brought them together, right. We unified the organization, which is kind of a different model for X ensure having a global platform lead on a global platform team where there's a direct line management relationship versus managing across the axes, but what that gives us an ability to kind of globally incubate skills globally moved to, You know where the center of gravity needs to be now versus where it needed to be then and so it came together quite nicely. On top of that, you see us making these few acquisitions. We'd just be three in the last six months. And it's, you know, kind of round out our global presence and capability. So we saw as we brought the organisations together, there were few. Geography is where we needed toe accelerate, Right? I mentioned we were accelerating our certifications one hundred thirty thirty percent more than doubled their staff in that time. We now have more than fifteen hundred certified Resource is in two thousand service now, resource is an extension. And, uh and that was largely through organic efforts Post cloud Sherpas acquisition. Now we layer in these additional acquisitions on top really gives it that full global capability. >> And obviously extent you had a sales force business yet folding that didn't have ah, Google businesses. Well, >> yeah, So platforms and of course, you know, absent in e mail, etcetera. So you know, they're on their way and kind of kind of re adjusting or kind of Swiss Ling for that practices. Well, but obviously my my interest in my >> phone is the service now, Okay. And then you said two thousand a trained now, professionals, >> just over two thousand service. Now, resource is in our platform team over fifteen hundred service now. Certifications. >> Uh, okay. And that's obviously global. Yeah, And then the other thing, the other big team we're hearing is that service now starting to penetrate, you know, different industries. And that's where you guys come in. I mean, you have deep, deep industry knowledge and expertise when if you could talk about how the adoption of service now is moving beyond sort of horizontal, I t into specific industries. >> So that's our big pivot. And that's the future of service. Now is a platform, not an I t. Sm tool, in my opinion. And I think the one of the foundational tenets behind the acquisitions, you see, with, like, dxy and of course, uh, of course, you know, cloud Sherpas to Accenture. Um, one of the things service that has to do to reach their market capitalization has become more than just a ninety seven, too will become a platform. Um, when you start have this platform conversations, you start having conversations that air well outside of it, they'd become business conversations. I'm sure you made the keynote this morning and heard about going horizontal across that full very often. Silas size departments in business. That's the way work gets done. And that's where the opportunity is. We find that most commonly when we're talking to prospects and customers, they want to talk about others in their sector, in their domain. What have you done with customers like me somewhere else and you end up having a conversation. So we did this here. We did that there. We did this over here, right across that whole platform. We're going deep into service now. Catalyst Model, which they just released here at acknowledged seventeen. And the reason for that is because that's where we're moving. We're creating an entire conversation across the platform, so we're certainly gonna have an industry lends to the same conversation. But we're going to bring more to that. We're gonna bring the integration stacked that we're gonna be in the custom ap Stop to that. We're gonna be the configured abstract to that. Of course you're gonna bring those outside of T APS to that. >> And the catalyst is what the gold standard of partners. >> Yeah, it really is. I mean, the service now just release the program to the partners just a few days ago. There are three partners that have catalyst today. There'LL be more of a course in time. Ours is focused on the financial sector, which we have really found to be a high growth area for us in the platform. And we also had a significant amount of domain and intellectual property in that space. That was easy for us to aggregate and really hit the market running with that one. But we'LL have more intime retail and a few others coming very quickly. And so that's where you're building a solution on top of service. Now you got exactly right cell as a solution across the platform. So just it's important not to think of it as just a new individual app or just a individual integration. But it's important to think of something much bigger >> than that. And then, you know, we're obviously it feels like we're on the steep part of the S curve. You predicted this a couple years ago that the future of service now is beyond me. But you were there doing the heavy lifting with getting people to buy into a single c M d b. Adopt the service catalog, you know, do a host things that were necessary to really take leverage. And in the early days, there was some friction in order to get people to do that. It was political, didn't really see, you know, the long term benefits, that they would maybe do it in a little pocket of opportunity. Has that changed as it changed dramatically? And how has that affected your ability to get leverage with customers, specifically the customers themselves getting leverage in other areas? >> You know, customers they're all trying to digitize, right? Everyone's trying to digitize, and it's a digitize, er die moment. It really has been digitized by moments for the last several years. Um, there's only so many places going to be able to do that. And what's so important about service now is the ability to actually bring that across work flows across organisations to relate to people in a user interface and a design that they're familiar with. You know, service now does a fantastic job. That's why we've been here in this sector. So order this software so long. But, you know, it's it's, uh, it's it's imperative anymore. It's not something that are seeing our clients have an option, too, except a reject. It's a demand. >> Yes, I want to I want to stay on this, uh, point for just a minute. I've said several times today and Jeff, you and I have talked about this that in the early days, the names that you saw in the ecosystem, you know, no offense, but like cloud Sherpas, you know, it was not a widely known brand. And now you've got the big I mean, except yours. You know, not number one, number one or number two. And what what you do on. So that lends an air of credibility. Two customers, they feel the comfort level. You've got global capabilities, got the ability to go deeper. So where do you see >> stay? Tune? It's also validation. I mean, when you're a start up company, that is a tremendous validation that a company like a century, they don't make small bets, you know, they're not going to They're not going to come and try to build a practice around your solution unless they feel like they could make some serious >> coin. So it feels Jason like we're on the cusp of Ah, you know, decade, Plus, you know, opportunity Here. You feel that way? >> I think there are other platforms that kind of paved the way of what you should expect to see out of the service now. But in my opinion service now does it better? Um, you know, I'm envisioning a place where, as service now is moving towards, you know, there's four billion mark that we're moving. We're having comments to our stack to write in that process and and the type of industrialization and rugged ization that you'd expect to see in a digital kind of movement in a digital world, you know, the least single a platform of records, a single place of record. It becomes so important for so many reasons, people adopted service down because the best of what it did, and it's extremely capable platform. But just start layering things like a I and chat bots and some of these things as well, especially a I. It needs a single source of record to make its best decisions. And if you don't have that someplace, you're not going to get the value out of a I. So not only the service now happy automate now very tactically kind of down your Peredo chart, but it's set you up for the future because it gives you that contacts that place where you can warehouse the information and let your automated solutions get in there and kind of ripped and release the best of of the solutions that they have a party available. >> I wonder if we get a riff on the sort of structure of the software business for a minute. I mean, you know, it's much different today. Like you said, everybody's going, going digital. You've got this whole big data trend going on, and a eyes now seems to be really. But if you look at some previous examples, I mean, Salesforce's an obvious example. You got used to have a sales force practice. I still do. I was in your company in your smaller company, and and I guess Oracle is the other one I look at. They had the system of record with the database ago. Probably go back to IBM Devi, too, but it was sort of that database was the main spring, uh, and then you know, Salesforce's sort of came from from C R M. But sales force It seems like there it's not the greatest workflow engine in the world. It seems like there's a lot of called the sex where service now seems to have the potential to really permeate throughout the organization. I wonder if you could give us your perspectives from you know, your your experience and in these businesses, how do you compare service now? Other software companies? >> Well, you know, a lot of software companies. Um, there's a lot of room, right? So it's It's very regular that we see successfactors workday or sales force and service now in office and azure. All kind of kind of sitting in the same place is a W s et cetera. Um, you know, those are just going to be natural. There's gonna be those that grow and scale and those that do not. But one of the things that I think it's most powerful about a service now, is it my opinion? It's got the best workflow capability to span across those different stacks, and that gives you your Swiss army knife, right? That gives you your ability too almost integrate with anything you want to in a meaningful way by directionally uniter, actually etcetera to bring that data in an enriched away into a single repository and then the layer these other things like Aye, aye and chat bots. On top of that, you get that console experience. A lot of the executives I'm talking to you right now are wrestling things with things like universal cues or a single approval Q. Or things of that nature search now does that really easy. That's an easy thing to do. What isn't easy right is making sure you aggregate all those things up in a meaningful way to a single source and then putting in somebody's hand that they can actually do something with contacts. But it's in St John. Donnie in the Kino talked about what? What's cool about centric? Uh, entry is you cross all those different silos where, if you're coming in, is the CIA right amount for your coming in as a marketing automation after you're coming in as a pick, your favorite silo SAS app. You don't have the benefit of being involved in so many kind of cross silo processes where service now came in, uh, check. They said it is our homies, uh, Frankie, So to say so you're already kind of touching, which gives you a better footprint from which to now go up into those. There are many organisations in a business that understand their underlying technology. But tonight, T Wright brothers, they kind of understand the blueprint. But, you know, I've seen a lot of articles about the rise of the chief digital officer. Anything like that. Reality is the CEO is a digital officer. Now, if they're not, they're not gonna be that CEO very long. And they need to be able to work within the context of digitizing everything. >> Well, this gives him a platform to actually deliver that value across the enterprise. So Alright, Jason, Hey, it's great to see you again. Thanks so much for coming on. Sharing your perspectives and congratulations on all the great success and continue. >> Appreciate it. Thank you very much. And >> I keep it right there, buddy. Jeff and I'll be back with our next guest right after this. We're live from service now. Knowledge seventeen. This is cute

live from Las Vegas Nevada it's the kue covering knowledge 15 brought to you by service now okay welcome back everyone we are live in Las Vegas a circus mountain on 16 hashtag no 15 this is a cube our flagship program you go out to the events are strictly simply noise i'm john furrier with my co-host cable on things chasing the weight on President assertion house business unit for cloud sherpas a business partner top of the heap for these guys congratulations thank you appreciate it oh you're sorry how about cloud shivers and what you guys do house of the integrations use what key areas sure so at Cloud Sherpas is a cloud services brokerage as a gardener term we provide cloud advisory and technology services for three key platforms where a partner with Salesforce platinum on three continents with the top three in the world we're also a have a line of business supporting the Google for work or Google's partner of the year 2012 2013 2014 largest Google partner in the world of course I'm responsible for our service now practice we were none of the first partners in the ecosystem one of the few partners that are global platinum excuse me master services partner in the in the ServiceNow space and very large presence not only in the training practices we had over 28 the trainers here helping to do the pre-conference training on behalf of service now and you know over 3,000 clients today on the ServiceNow platform so you're in the middle of the digital transformation we certainly aren't there you got senseless Google servers three really top products what's your take on the cloud I mean what else or the challenge me hace cloud is whatever we're seeing where are we in the cloud evolution are people so president we in the third inning first inning why would you pay go back in terms of going into this modern era I say you know I have my take on the clot is it's the only take right now there are very few things that you can do in technology that it gives you the extensibility of the scalability of a cloud platform really reduce that time to value once you get those clouds in place what we find is is very few customers we talked to you today that don't have some sort of cloud application in fact Dave I think last year we talked a bit about you know that the proliferation and cloud being a bit of a challenge in some cases you can see custom customers with you know 30 to 35 different cloud applications and of course then clearly if you've gone that deep in cloud there's some overlap you're going to start sub optimizing we're focused on three core platforms iono sleaze most concerned with the ServiceNow platform what we're finding is you know we're really just in the honeymoon of extending the platform past IT I think our consumers that we see there they're well beyond to understanding that you know service now is an extremely capable IT service management tool and now we're in the space of exploring you know those adjacent spaces and and and looking at the power of the single source of record in the work for an automation engine of service now talk about the convergence of the consumer consumerization trend with the reconstruction of the back ends of IT and businesses which is computer systems as you got the converge is all coming in user and user experiences iphone app store meets plumbing all that stuff it's an integration potentially nightmare it's a challenge but the opportunity if you crack the code it's pretty significant but share your thoughts and observations on on that dynamic what are you seeing a success formulas for folks that want to integrate fast modernized to have that you know it feel of a consumer company but yet still scale and have all the requirements yeah we see very few companies that aren't interested in some level of a case of integration in their operation we're well past this notion of you know you go to product expert for one activity product Y for another activity our consumer behaviors if you look at that bridge between hardware and the service experience or the user experience you know apples so famous for many others you know those bridges have been crossed from a consumer perspective and what we're seeing is tools like service now being that chasm or being that bridge really in the corporate you know back office we spend a good deal of our time working with IT departments because it's not uncommon and fastest most common for service now to be implemented as an IT tool first and so there's this education process you have to go through that that starts to reveal what the opportunities are to expand the platform the best way to always do that is through case examples other users experiences we've got a lot of really interesting you know use cases over seen today I mean last year we spoke about Einstein know a hundred and thirty-seven percent increase in food borne illness and stores right not because they changed their the way they did business because they automated that workflow on service now we're working with a large Brewer and looking to modernize some of their brewery systems and those forward-looking maintenance task and you know it goes on and on and on folks an IT don't tend to understand or don't tend to think of what they're doing is some kind of chasm you know crossing you know major issue in strategy they're just trying to solve a problem and now they've got a tool that really enables them to do that quickly so Jason we've talked before about you guys made some early bets with with Salesforce but really Google and service now you know it wasn't clear several years ago that this was going to be the type of business that it's become so talk about the momentum in that business what's driving that and then I want to talk about the extension into the business side beyond IT so the momentum is is the market the market was really ready for something else particularly in that IT space right in it once you get IT and you know necessity is the mother of invention you've got this wonderful cloud platform you know that you can extend and use for other things and and you know your IT your IT folks tend to be pretty crafty right so they're going to they're going to find those opportunities they're going to look for solutions they're trying to delight their clients and the way they're going to do that is through the cloud platform you know the market was just ready for something different service now is that that that thing that was different you can certainly see the the way they've gobbled up the market in the ITSM space I Tom's next management also you know getting very significant at this point so you know if you really look at modernizing that IT the Department of IT and and the users that the touch IT across the corporation there's there's no better place to be than right where we are with service now and then two years ago at knowledge 13 it was sort of Fred ludie so it gave us a glimpse of you know creating apps on the platform big announcements now this week you guys are part of that contributing to that why don't you talk about the store what you guys are doing there yeah so just today in fact service now released the service now store we have been fortunate to be part of the the initial pilot group of partners out there we have two apps that we released on the store today we have a legal application we can talk about what that is and what that does and we also have a security incident management application and you know that's just really going to be our start there we have plans you know through the rest of the year to add additional applications into that store service now from a platform perspective is caught up to the point where you can now abusive by your IP so you can protect your own capital from you know coding perspective and it's it's enabling that to really propel us into a space where we can make those applications that were today we're building one off for clients we can make them you know something that is built once and repeated many times so let's let's unpack those let's start with the legal app what is it what does it do with problems is assault yeah so we've we've implemented a legal application that was the foundation of this at six different legal organizations you know since we've been part of service now and we're really addressing three different aspects of what's important in illegal operation first and foremost there's a workflow between lawyers and document processors people that do research requests and things of that nature and they needed a way to track that very often it's done by email and you know there are no kpi's or service level commitments or ability to really report around that or understand who's being responsive and who's not being responsive and what information is needed in a transparent way so we've addressed that workflow that that lawyer to research request or document processor that the second piece of the application is legal firms have very vast digital libraries now and they have to manage their subscriptions to those digital libraries they also have to manage information requests for those digital libraries and so we've got those built in as well and then last for all legal firms it's extremely important that they have good understanding of billable time and so many organizations are using tools like Kronos or others and we've been able to actually integrate service now with those tools to not only ensure that you've got a good understanding of the billable hours for the lawyers but more importantly that as you go into those shared services and legal organizations we've got a good bility to abstract what their billable hours are and get those back to the appropriate project out of for instance Kronos exact okay so where does Kronos leave off and we're to serve us now pick up and we request into that system or can you describe that a little bit more d yeah so it's a it's usually used in this applications used in a way to kind of give the legal departments transparency and where those billable hours are coming from you know anybody can log into a prono system and pull a record but it's not often associated to a task we're not often associated to the specific activity you might have an hour of billable time but that our billable time may be made up of four or five unique tasks and some legal organizations customers want to get a little bit more transparency this is the way they can do that you're actually associated down to a task level I know we want transparency John when we got our bill from lawyers no way okay and then you know the workflow between lawyers and document processors what people might say well can I just use a ticketing system to do that what's different here you could use a ticketing system to do it in fact you know incident management is a foundation of any good transaction of work between groups you know so that sounds a lot like a ticketing type of application that the benefit would service now is that of course it has that but in addition to that you have the ability to get reporting you have the ability to automate the workflow you can add raw security and draw roles and and groups a little differently and so you have the ability to target those things are really useful for those individuals and not distract them with everything else and you've got integration potentially if you have a single system of record with other processes within your organization got it we all right what about the security app let's unpack that a little bit you know your service now talking about security and what's your security so it's I really look at as a precursor of a really dis notion of how are you going to really comprehensively manage security incidents if you think about what securities teams do today particularly with threats new virus new code those types of things there are a lot of different channels where they could pick up that information in fact many security organizations follow certain handles on Twitter because they might get the information first their email is coming from vendors there emailed coming from other organizations there are websites that get updated in other types of places where you've got to be able to integrate with these many different sources of records parse that information down to what's relevant for you and then you have to structure some work flow around that so you can manage it so what our application does is it creates the ability for you to create unique streams and query those different repositories of information looking for those unique strings right threat virus a for example and it will then create automatically those tickets so you don't have to have a person parsing out emails parsing out websites parsing out Twitter information things of that nature the system is going to do it automatically for you going to create that in a service now record going to give you the taxonomy of where that threat information came from and give you the ability to tie that back into your IT operation ok so now talk about the business model for these apps how you charge for them is it a subscription what you go to market on them so if your app services around them yeah so it's different by application you know this is obviously a very early market for us so we're still kind of fine-tuning our approach but service now has given us a lot of flexibility there so we have the ability to offer app by app pricing we have the ability to offer subscription pricing we also have the ability to kind of a freemium model if you will where you get a lighter version for one cost you can elevate privileges for another and of course we always have the ability to turn that into a services engagement and charge nothing for the application so you know we're still working through that as we speak to the store was announced today so we're going to have a lot to learn there but we've also been piloting kind of how consumers share and use service management information through service now share site so for the last few years service now is how to share up and running developers and people on the ServiceNow platform can go download bits of codes and things like that and make that useful for them we've got over 2,000 download on the share site so we think we have a good understanding of what the consumers would buy in a marketplace and of course that's why we've positioned legal and security incident is our first applications you mentioned the quote here your customers want to automate more across their enterprises with innovative business applications that's kind of the sound bite you mentioned some of the workflow stuff with your clients what innovative applications are you seeing give some other examples of applications that are innovative that you guys have worked on that service now is but be part of well and I could give you a long list but i'll give you some that i just think our think you're interesting the brewery application i think is quite interesting so we've got a number of retail franchise types of restaurant organizations that we work with my PA and it's important for them I'm not going to tell you it's important for them to be able to request beverages and types of beverages and get them to the appropriate place at appropriate time so we actually have a request catalog that fulfills that a lot in the facility space right now this notion of you know what you need to change a light bulb or what you need to shovel snow in the parking lot or what you might need to do some different types of things get a bid for example for services to be provided very similar to the types of workflows and I teaser working those that if you go back a decade ago would cost what to automate I mean in terms of costs order magnitude yeah definitely larger would you it's an apples to oranges comparison I mean I can't even you know this would be a unique application and in you know years ago you would start that conversation by saying okay we're gonna need a server and where you need to put that at a data center and we're gonna need to make sure it's secure and then we're gonna need to build it on some sort of database and build something onto all that higher and you know you know exactly so and then if you have any money left over he could actually I mean you could actually we don't have in start there right because as customers of implement service now we're down to okay what is it did uni really neat what do you want the application to do security requirements are met you know roles and privileges already established your architectural your eye functional real need of the conversation exactly exactly so your start you're not starting from a technology discussion you're starting from you know a business reason somebody needs some nology which is just foundationally different and what's the big big AHA at the store announcements of our what's uh what's the big the top line news on that you know what I'm excited about is uh I think and and it's what makes knowledge conference such a great event is you end up talking to clients and you end up hearing so many different ways that they're using service now and so I think what will find the store really becomes an amalgamation of that you see many different types of technologies and course will have the ability to see well what's really important what's really moving in the ecosystem what matters to clients and they'll have a way to do it that doesn't necessarily always sound like a services engagement which I think will be empowering for them so I want to talk about this sort of the role of a company like yours as an application developer and you know service provider relative to what service now is going to be doing obviously you know Fred Letty wrote the first application yeah service now they've introduced the store so what's your take on that and that mix do you I mean servers now talks that they're going to really open up the ecosystem and and what gives you confidence that that's going to be the case that there's gonna be plenty of white space what are you what's your take is well there's there's no question there's white space I mean we've been in this ecosystem since 2007 and it's been nothing but white space right so you know there's there's not a single anyone that I think could fill the void of what the cut clients are looking to do in the platform out there and I'd like to think of you know Fred Letty built a really capable IT service management solution and people kind of forgot that he actually also built the canvas that that solution is drawn on and you know the canvas is blank at this point now we were able to just you know kind of put the technology aside and say what matters what's important how do you want to address that and you know there are a lot of businesses and a lot of customers and a lot of work flows within those businesses and customers so it's a great opportunity for us to get in those days and you guys are remain a high-touch service provider we're not becoming a software company overnight but you're increasing the software content as a means of driving efficiency value add for your customers it's it's a good question so are we turning into a nap shop right and the answer is no but we are building some apps well why are we doing that you know foundationally I believe that you know we could go out there and I could speculate on what the next best app is and go try to partner with somebody if it's got domain experience and X Y or Z how to build a bread bread basket whatever it is and then try to turn that into an application and hope somebody buys it we've actually gone the other way we're actually listening to customer needs and looking at those services engagements to say okay where's the content that really needs to be repeatable and that repeatable content is a good base or foundation for you not to defer venture development opportunity on a first service delivery as exact which then turns it into potentially of portfolios efficiency customer satisfaction stickiness also you believe that situation so your believer SAS churn turns everything upside down it really doesn't okay great so the cloud mobile social revolutions upon if you guys are in the thick of the digital transformation so what about those companies that were the apples and oranges examples from 10 years ago the big sex accounting firms which are now our big consulting firms they're out there you know they said they're stuck in their ways what's their challenges and how do you guys extend your distance and expertise lead against them so I look at a big part of how we've added value in the ecosystem because we're relative to a KPMG or in accenture we're relatively small firm in thousand people globally so why why are we so good at this right why are we competitive why the wood Forrester put us in the leaders quadrant in this space or leaders wave in this space why would they do that it's because we're able to get to a customer and meet them where they are you know we're going to be very agile we're not trying to roll into some you know business transformation we're actually transforming business one workflow at a time you know in the trenches where it really gets done and that leads us to the next opportunity the next opportunity to track record some trust you get a cute well or if you should you taking the time stopping by and Neville see you tomorrow yeah as well on the cube getting all the action here live nonstop fireworks of action here in the cube all day three days wall-to-wall coverage I'm John for David eyes will be right back into the short break with the segment from Cloud Sherpas great great insight thanks so much just for coming on the cube we right back into this short break you

okay we're back this is Dave vellante Wikibon org i'm here with jeff Frek we're here at knowledge service now is big customer event we're at the aria hotel a lot of enthusiasm a lot of great stories we're seeing a pattern emerged IT is essentially this collection of disparate processes we have a lot of activity going on spreadsheets people using email to really keep track of what's going on many many systems trying to keep track of inventory assets process these problems incidents changes etc etc and it's just this big web of mess here comes service now a single system of record a cmdb that allows you to essentially tailor your processes to your business as opposed to some kind of technology module or some other kind of software system jason wu yan is here he's the vice president of operations for a cloud sherpas works within the ServiceNow business unit at Cloud Sherpas was a big sponsor of the show Jason welcome to the cube thank you very much so you heard my little intro of guys must be excited big sponsor a lot of a lot of action going on in this this event how do you feel we feel outstanding we're happy to be a part of the the event this is my third knowledge conference and of course as the director of training in service now I like to say there are more people in training at this conference that attended the entire knowledge 11 conference so it's a pretty phenomenal event so how was it progressed over the years this is my first knowledge and so I don't have that history I'd say that you know we leave a long legacy with service now all the way back to some of the very first knowledge conferences that occurred in first knowledge conference we probably could have had a the entire conference in this table right and of course today with almost four thousand attendees it's it's certainly grown tremendously we've got somewhere the neighborhood 1,200 people that have gone through training at this event alone we did a big part of providing that training for on behalf of service now with other partners as well and it's an exciting event there's a large buzz here as I'm sure you've seen there really is yes sir Cloud Sherpas other than a great name you know tell us about the company it's a great it's a great story to tell Gartner likes to turma cloud services brokerage and so first and foremost we're cloud services brokerage we have three strategic partnerships we are a Salesforce a partner we are one of the largest Salesforce partners in the world actually top five from a certification standpoint we're the largest Google Enterprise integrator in the world we're actually Google Google's partner of the year in 2011 and 2012 of course we like to think we're pretty good at servicenow as well a little background on us in the ServiceNow business unit we were the first partner in the United States Forest Service now we are the first partner to achieve preferred status at servicenow and the only partner to achieve that status globally today so how's it work so a customer wants to implement service now or google enterprise or Salesforce you basically are that brokerage layer in between so talk about how that works well we help customers adopt manage and enhance their cloud solutions of course focusing on this particular context service now and we are there from day one we're there to help them bring the platform into their environment we're help there to help them refine their processes and practices and of course ultimately align that to the service now a tool and help them manage that through their life cycle so how do you get ready for this what do you tell customers they need to do I tell customers commonly it's best to start where you're at with any improvement activity and ultimately in an enterprise deployment of software you're going to take that as an opportunity to improve I say start where you're at take the time to understand how you do things today you'd be surprised to see how often customers don't aren't all on the same page as to how they perform incident or what the key processes are underneath that or even what the key performance objectives are for that of course we recommend starting where you're at of course we have requirements workshops opportunities we have a number of I tell practices and other types of areas where we can help elaborate those requirements and better align them to their business needs but first and foremost you need to understand what you want your environment to look like some a requirement standpoint the workflows are key so what are the big obstacles that you see people running into when they try to do implement like this I would say in general taking too big of a bite you know there are over twenty two applications as an example in service now you don't want to start day one with 22 applications it's not because ServiceNow wouldn't be able to handle it ServiceNow can deploy very rapidly you really start simple start where you're mature or start where you have the most profound opportunity to improve and align to better practices get the foundation of the platform in place stabilize that and then move on to your next phase and progressively adopt more and more of the application so it's with the pattern that's emerging here we're hearing from customers people starting with incident problem management change management you know why there why why do we see that pattern emerging I think more across the industry that it tends to be a place where customers have have focused on over time so that tends to be where they're more mature they tend to have a better understanding of maybe what their shortcomings are today in those spaces so they tend to be an easier place to start what percentage of them are displacing some other legacy software versus we've heard about I'm not counting excel in that in that list or lotus notes because we hear a lot about that but I would presume there's other software out there that they're displacing we see a lot of software that gets this place down there of course point solutions where there's a lot of databases and homegrown applications handling change your change approvals or cab boards or those types of things of course it's a good opportunity to consolidate that and of course you know service now is known within the industry is being a pretty proficient solution but there are other solutions and we are offering seen that we're offsetting those as well you have we have the steam of no.2 now do you have any you know favorite examples that you can share with us or what are you some of your customers doing ha we've got a lot of good examples i would say probably most recently we just helped a very large clothing manufacturer an american good american company that had nine support environments globally and they had nine different ways of doing everything and they look use this as an opportunity to consolidate those and get to a single source of record get to a single workflow globally and in that they also transformed and improve their processes and and that was something that they couldn't have accomplished with really any other project or really any other tool in the market they of course chose to go down the path with with service now and you know a short few months later they're implemented across incident problem changed service request Service Catalog a very profound Service Catalog spanning literally hundreds of request items employee self-service portal that's been branded to their to their corporate brands there's been a lot of excitement in their injuries or community because they look like their company when they're when they're asking for support and they get a much more automated and in much more efficient process what was the genesis of that was it again something was breaking they had to change it was it let's just take a step back there's opportunity that we wanted to do this or were the easing service now and some other minor role and said wow you know we can actually use this tool to take advantage and do something transformation and generally what we see is service now it's really the enabler it's the enabler to transition transform now we've seen global sis do this forever that's their big thing we're going to help you consolidate and get your hands around it I think service now gives you the ability to to do that neutral of a partner or neutral of an outsourcing provider you can get your arms around it on your own and again many customers are relatively mature and incident problem and change and so it's a good opportunity for them to find those areas where they can aspire to better practice better process and to implement that into service count tool how was your business involves I mean it's so interesting because the poster child of SAS and Salesforce you guys obviously you know chose well that was 1999 may we are in 2013 it's really taking a long time Google Enterprise okay that's make sense but Google you know big whale I see you know guys like workday you know service now come out why do you think it's taken such a long time for these applications to catch on and and how has cloud sherpas you know progressed over those over that time frame well what i would say is the notion of a cloud services brokerage didn't exist eight to ten years ago right that that aggregation point didn't really exist it was those point solutions were always provided by those point providers or their tightly coupled partners in that space and of course with the emergence of this notion of a brokerage that's helping aggregate and manage and enhance low solutions you know we're seeing a lot of degrees of freedom so you know where we started we started as a firm that was focused on Google that emerged into Salesforce and now is through in a company called Navitus a few earlier or late last year now the ServiceNow practice as well and you know moreover it's it's it's where things are going right the truth is is that end-users and corporations and and whether it's you on your iPhone and for personal use or business use you want those applications available you want to have a solid user experience ServiceNow was really first in this space to be able to offer that in a way that was truly platform neutral that just worked whether it was a smart phone or an iPad or a desktop or laptop of what happened so talk about your strategy clouds share purrs and talk a little bit about how you differentiate well we differentiated in a number of ways but specific in the ServiceNow business unit and III don't think it's it could be said enough the cloud services brokerage is a huge differentiating point for us right having the scale that we do globally having you know several key strategic partners enables us to see areas and aspects of the industry that I don't think other partners can but from a service town business you know perspective I think we have a live a couple a couple differentiating points when is we were one of the first adopters of the platform from a partner perspectives so obviously we have a lot of deep skills in this we've done over 320 implementations of service now to date to have and of course 320 over 320 and through that history we've seen we've seen a lot of heuristics we've seen a lot of customer success stories we've seen a lot of things in the platform that customers are asking for time and time again and we've been able to fit that need both by my IT service management but also by industry as well a great example of that is we've got a number of custom applications that we've developed one of them as is a document management document processing application that a lot of legal firms are using in fact what we found is we built it for one company a few years ago Morrison forest or better known as mofo and now five or six legal firms later they've all asking for that same application and so we're finding that there's also you know real opportunity from an industry perspective to align to some of those point solutions extend the platform and just include those in the solution here's so much today about Big Data and you know it's all about this unstructured mass of information a bring structure to unstructured data maybe lending structured and unstructured some people don't even like those terms because it's all sort of blending how does analytics play into this whole IT Service Management IT automation there's a lot of metrics so they get this automating this forms based process is there a place for that or is is there not right now because everybody's kind of doing their own thing you know ten years ago I t was all about the tnit right it's all about the technology now it's all about the eye it's all about the information a great examples we're seeing a lot of partner solutions emerge in the ServiceNow ecosystem that are trying to better rationalize data there are tools like mere 42 for example which it's whole purpose is to is to bolt onto service now and provide a more comprehensive analytic package and there are many other examples of that as well in truth it's a services lead operation at this point it's not a technology led operation the only way to really ensure that you're delivering any quality of services or support is the quality of data that you provide and that starts with your requirements and those requirements need to bridge the performance measures in those performance there is just being an easy way to be accessible transparent and manageable and of course that's a big part of what service now does so how do you see this cloud brokerage you know space evolving over the next three to five years what's going to change you're going to hear a lot more from Cloud Sherpas in the space in the next three to five years that's for sure you know I think what we're going to find is is that more and more you're going to you're going to see gsis and other types of firms moving to this sort of model right I mean we're only we're going to take a lot of business away from them and and in that process you know it's going to get the right levels of attention you know what what I really think that cloud services brokerage is is it's a firm that is extremely experienced in the platform and the products they sell but more importantly the underlying reason for selling that product in the first place you know services IT services in this case it's a company that's known for being a little bit more nimble than some of those GS is you know getting the proposals out quickly and being effect effective and efficient and not looking to establish this enormous agreement but but a series of agreements that gets a customer to to where they need to go and I think what we're going to see is it is time and time again that the the early adopters in the cloud services brokerage spaces are going to be are going to be growing at rates like our business unit for example are business units currently growing at one hundred and fifty percent it's a tough tough job to keep up with but tools like ServiceNow certainly help us manage that and keep us on track with our own projects your own time carts and our own tasks yeah so you guys are great on the rocket ship with good service now pulling them along are they pulling you along a little bit of both like bikers drafting yeah so hexcel and I Jason we'll listen thanks very much for coming on the cube and sharing the cloud sherpas story will give you the last word here what advice would you give to folks that are you know maybe kicking the tires and mostly thirty percent of the audience here are not ServiceNow customers they're thinking about it what would you tell those guys have a good understanding of where you're at have a good vision of what you want to achieve and don't be afraid to go to the cloud it's not as not as hard as it sounds its clouds not scary just jump right in the water's fine hi Jason thanks very much for coming on really appreciated a good luck with managing that crazy growth and pleasure meeting you thanks very much all right Jeff reckon I'll be back with our next guest keep right here this is the cube we drop it of these events and we're covering the wall-to-wall service now knowledge will be right back from Las Vegas right after this

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE in ETR. This is breaking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> ServiceNow is a company that investors love to love, but there's caution in the investor community right now is confusion about transitory inflation and higher interest rates looms. ServiceNow also suffers from a perfection syndrome of sorts. The company has seen that the slightest misstep can cause many freak outs from the investor community. So what it's done is it's architected a financial and communications model that allows it to beat expectations and raise its outlook on a consistent basis. Regardless, ServiceNow appears to be on track to vie for what its CEO Bill McDermott refers to as the next great enterprise software company. Wait, I thought Marc Benioff had his hands on that steering wheel. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we'll dig into one of the companies we began following almost 10 years ago and provide some thoughts on ServiceNow's March to 15 billion by 2026, which we think is a highly probable achievement. In 2020, despite the contraction in IT spending, SeviceNow outperformed both the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ, but here's a view of 2021. And you can see while the stock has done well since it saw a softness in May and again in early June, and it bounced off that double bottom, it's performance is well below those other benchmarks. This is not a big surprise given the fact that this is a high growth stock and we all know that those names with high multiples get hurt in an inflationary environment, but still the gaps are notable. This is especially true given the performance of the company. It's not often that you see a company with four to $5 billion in revenue growing at a 30% clip, throwing off billions of dollars in free cash flow and increasing operating margins at 100 basis points a year and promising to do that over the next several years. In fact, I don't think we've ever seen that before. I remember years ago, when the trade press was criticizing SeviceNow for its lofty valuation, despite the fact that it was losing money, then CEO, Frank Slootman said to me, "Dave, we can be highly profitable tomorrow if we want it to be, but this is a marathon and we're planning to go big." So essentially Slootman was telling me that this company was going to be an ATM machine that prints money. And that seems to be how it's shaping up. I happened to be at SeviceNow headquarters in 2017, literally the first day on the job for John Donahoe, the CEO replaced Slootman, and I remember while I was there thinking Donahoe was certainly capable, but why the heck I said, would the board let Frank Slootman get away? You know what? It turned great for Slootman, he's at snowflake. Donahoe, I always felt was a consumer guy anyway, and not long for SeviceNow. And now you have this guy, new CEO, Bill McDermott at the helm. He's not a more qualified CEO for the company in my view. About two months ago, McDermott led a virtual investor day. We've had McDermott on theCUBE a couple of times back when he was CEO of SAP and this individual is very compelling. He's got JFK like looks and charisma, but more than that, he's passionate and convincing. And he obviously knows enterprise software. And with conviction, he laid the groundwork for how SeviceNow will get to $10 billion in revenue by 2024 on its way to 15 billion two years thereafter. And one of the big things McDermott's stressed was they're going to get there without any big M&A moves. And that's important because previously the door was left open for that possibility. And now the company is assuring investors that it can get there organically, even with slower growth. So this chart implies no big M&A, and you can see Slootman handed over the reigns at that year one tick on the horizontal axis. This was not a turnaround story. It was a rocket ship at the time. And look at the logos on this chart. This is a revenue view and SeviceNow is aiming to be the fastest to get to 10 billion in software industry history. SeviceNow is valuation just to sort of shift gears here for a minute blew by workdays years ago. Its sites are now set on SAP which is currently valued at 170 billion. And then there's Oracle and Salesforce. They're at around 250 billion and 225 billion in valuation respectively. And these lines back to revenue show the trajectory that these companies took to get to 10 billion. And you can see how SeviceNow plans to get there with those dotted lines. And this is why I call this a collision course with Salesforce, because I think Marc Benioff might say, "Hey, we are ready." Are the next great enterprise software company. We have no plans to give up that post, that mantle anytime soon. I want to share a clip from four years ago. something we've been saying for a long, long time. Roll the clip. >> As they say their goal now is to be four billion by 2020. It feels like, you know, when we first covered SeviceNow knowledge, we said, wow, this company reminds us a lot of the early days of Salesforce. They've got this platform you can develop on this platform, you know, call it paths or, you know, whatever you want to call it, but we at the time said, they're on a collision course with Salesforce. Now there's plenty of room for both of those companies in the marketplace. Salesforce obviously focused predominantly on Salesforce automation, SeviceNow really on workflow automation, but you can see those sort of two markets coming together. >> Now you may be thinking isn't Salesforce's revenue like 5X that of SeviceNow? And yes it is. But I would say a couple of things. One is that Salesforce has gotten to where it is with a lot of M&A, more than 60 acquisitions. At some high profile wants to like slack and Tableau as well as MuleSoft and Heroku back in the day and many others. So we'll see how far McDermott can get before he reverts to his inquisitive self that we saw at SAP. But the second thing I'll say is serviceNow positions itself as the platform of platforms. And the thing is it runs its own cloud. And when it does acquisitions, it replatforms the acquiree into the now platform so that it can drive integrations more seamlessly. That's fundamentally part of its value proposition, a big part of its value proposition. And that means it's somewhat limited on the acquisitions it can make, it has to be pretty selective. Otherwise it's got to do a heavy lift to get it the now platform. It's the power of the models, especially if customers can get to a single CMDB, that configuration database management system, which by the way, a lot of customers never get to that kind of skirt that, but remember SeviceNow is like the ERP for IT. So the more you can get to a single data model, the more effective you're going to be, especially in this data era where you got to put data at the core of your organization, something we've talked about a lot. And the third thing I'll mention the SeviceNow wants to use this platform to attack what it sees as a very large TAM as shown here. Now, a couple of things I want to point out. One is when SeviceNow IPO in 2012, a lot of the analysts said that they were way overvalued because they were in a market. It was help desk and writing tickets was a $2 billion business that was in decline and BMC remedy. Wasn't really that big of a base to attack. In 2013, the Wikibon team took a stab at sizing the TAM. I dug back into the old Wiki. We had well over 30 billion at the time and we expected the company to move deeper into IT and then beyond IT into lines of business and line of business management. Yeah, we felt we were being conservative. We thought the number could be as big as 100 billion, but we felt like putting that number out there, was too aggressive but, you know, it turns out from SeviceNow standpoint, it sees these new software opportunities coming together. And SeviceNow in a way they can double dip both in and beyond their current markets. What I mean by that is it can partner with, for instance, HCM vendors and then at the same time offer employee workflows. They can partner or even purchase RPA tools from specialists like UI path or automation anywhere. And it can go acquire a company which it did like Intel a bot and integrate what I would consider lighter-weight RPA into its platform. So it can manage workflows for best of breed and pick off functionality throughout the software stack. Now what's interesting in this chart is first, the size of the TAM that SeviceNow sees 175 billion, but also how it's now reorganizing its business around workflows, which you see in the left-hand side. This was done of course, to simplify the many, many, many things that you can buy from SeviceNow. But there's also speculation that SeviceNow is leveraging its orchestration and service catalog capabilities, which are meaningful from a revenue standpoint and using them to power these workflows because the way it was organized was both confusing and not as effective as it could be. Now, it's well known that SeviceNow has ITSM this comprises the biggest piece of its revenue pie, probably a couple billion. And it's adding to that with ITSM pro and ITSM enterprise going deeper, deeper into the ITSM space. And it's ITAM business is also doing well against the likes of Datadog and Elastic and Splunk and others and its acquisition of LightStep. It's going to push it further into this space, which is both crowded is morphing into observability as we've been reporting. What's unclear though is how well, for instance, HR and the CSM businesses are doing as sort of standalone businesses, you might remember they used to be standalone businesses with standalone GMs. They've sort of changed that up a little bit. So this is potentially not only a way to simplify, but also shuffle the deck chairs a bit and maybe prop up the non IT workflows, which then allows SeviceNow to show this chart, which essentially says to the street, see, we have this huge TAM and our TAM expansion strategy is working as the overall business is growing nicely yet the mix is shifting toward customer, employee and creator workflows. See how awesome our business is and see how smart we are. So this is possibly a way to hide some of the warts and accentuate the growth. Look, there's not a lot to criticize SeviceNow about, but they've been pretty good at featuring what some perceive as weaknesses. Like for instance, the way it marketed it's a multi-instance and turned that into an advantage as a better model. Even though the whole cloud world was going multitenant and within a ServiceNow you got to really plan new releases, which they drop every six months, although CJ decide. So he's SeviceNows head of products. He did say at the investor meeting, that event that they held last May, that they do certain releases now bi-monthly and even some bi-weekly. So, yeah, maybe a little bit of nitpicking here, but I always liked to question when such changes are made to the reporting structures to the street. And if workflows are the new black, so to speak, I wonder will SeviceNow start pricing by workflows versus what really has been a legacy of, you know, what's your ticket volume and how many agents need access to the model and we'll charge you accordingly? Now, I'm not a service pricing expert and they don't make it easy to figure out that pricing. So let's dig a little bit more on that and keep an eye on it. Now I want to turn to the customers survey data from ETR on ServiceNow. First, here's the latest update on IT spending from ETR, something that we've been tracking for quite some time. We've been consistently saying to expect this year a seven to 8% growth for 2021 IT spend off of last year's contraction. And the latest ETR survey data puts it right at 8%. So we really liked that number. You know, could even be higher push 10% this year. Now, let's look at the spending profile within the ETR dataset. Of the 1100 plus respondents to this quarter, there were 377 SeviceNow customers, and this chart shows the breakdown of net score or spending velocity among those respondents. Remember, net score is a measure of that spending momentum. What it does is it takes the lime green bar, which is adopting new, that says 11% of that 377 customers are adopting ServiceNow for the first time. It takes that lime green and it adds the forest green bar that's growth in spending of 6% or more this half relative to the first half. That's 43% of the customers that have been surveyed here. And then it subtracts out the reds, which is that pinkish is spending less, that's 3%, small number of spending less. And then the bright red is we're leaving the platform. That's a minuscule 1% of the respondents. And you can see the rest in that gray area is flat spending, which is ignored. And so what this does is it calculates out, you'd take the greens minus the reds. It calculates out to a net score 50% for SeviceNow, which is well above that magic 40% elevated mark that we'd like to see. It's rare for a company of this size, except for the hyperscalers. You see AWS and Microsoft and Google are up that high and oh, there's another great enterprise software company at the 45% net score level. Guess who that is, salesforce.com. But anyway, it's rare to see that large of a company have that much spending momentum in the ETR surveys. Now let's take a look at the time series data for ServiceNow. This chart shows the net score granularity over time. So you see the bars, that time series, the blue line is net score. And you can see that it was dragged down during last year's lockdown. As, even though SeviceNow did pretty well last year and it's now spiking back to pre-COVID levels, which is a very positive sign for the company. That red call-out that ETR makes it shows market share. That's an indicator of pervasiveness in the dataset. I'm not overlyconcern there that downturn. I don't think it's a meaningful indicator because ServiceNow revenue is skewed towards a big spender accounts and this is an account unit indicator, if you will not spending level metric. And okay, and here's another reason and why I'm not concerned about SeviceNow is a so-called market share number in the ETR dataset as ETR defines it. This is an X, Y Z view chart that we'd like to show here. We've got net score on the vertical axis and market share in the horizontal plane. This is focusing on enterprise software. So remember that 40% red line is the magic level, anything above that is really indicative of momentum. Oh look, there's Salesforce and ServiceNow on that little collision course that I talked about. Now, CEO McDermott, I would say as by the way, would his predecessors, look, we're a platform of platforms and we partner with other companies, we'll meet at the customer level and sure we'll integrate functions where we think it can add value to customers. But we also understand we have to work with the vendors that our customers are using. So it's all good, plenty of room for growth for all of us, which by the way is true. But I would say this, anyone who's ever been in the enterprise software industry knows that enterprise software execs and their salespeople believe that every dollar spent on software should go to them. And if it's a good market with momentum and growth, they believe they can either organically write software to deliver customer function and value, or they can acquire to fill gaps. So, well, what McDermott would say is true. The likes of Oracle, Microsoft, SAP, Salesforce, Infor, et cetera, they all want as big of a budget piece as possible in the enterprise software space. That's just the way it is. Now, we're going to close with some anecdotal comments from ETR insights, formerly called VENN, which is a round table discussion with CXOs. You can read the summaries when we post on Wikibon and SiliconANGLE but let me summarize. This first comment comes from an assistant VP in retail who says SeviceNow is a key part of their digital transformation. They moved off of BMC remedy two years ago for the global ticketing system. And this person is saying that while the platform is extremely powerful, you got to buy into specific modules to just get one feature that you want. You may not need a lot of the other features, so it starts to get expensive. The other thing this individual is saying is initially, it's a very services heavy project. And so I'll tell you, when you look at the SeviceNow ecosystem the big SIs, the big names, they have big appetites. They love to eat at the trough as I sometimes say, and they want big clients with big budgets. So if you're not one of those top 500 or 700 customers, the big name SIs, you know, they might not be for you. They're not going to pay attention to you. They're going after the big prizes. So what I would suggest is you call up someone like Jason Wojahn of third era, he's the CEO over there and he's got a lot of experience in this space or some more specialized SeviceNow consultancy like them because you're going to get better value for the money. And you're going to get short-term ROI faster with a long-term sustainable ROI as a measurable objective. And I think this last comment sums it up nice, let me to skip over the second one and go just jump to the third one. This basically says the platform is integrated. It's like a mesh. It's not a bunch of stovepipes and cul-de-sacs. Yes it's expensive, but people love it. And like the iPhone, it just works. And their feature pace is accelerating. So pretty strong testimonials, but I want to keep an eye on price transparency any possible backlash there and how the ecosystem evolves. It's something that we called out early on. It's an indicator and SeviceNow needs to continue to invest in that partner network is especially as it builds out its vertical industry practices and expands internationally. Okay, we'll leave it there for now. Remember I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. These episodes they're all available as podcasts. All you got to do is search for breaking analysis podcast. You can always connect with me on Twitter @DVellante or email me @david.vellantesiliconangle.com. Appreciate the comments on LinkedIn. And don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey data. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Be well, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)