>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are continuing our coverage of VMworld 2018 day 3. I'm Lisa Martin, with two very stylish men next to me. I'm quite impressed. Dave Vellante, my esteemed co-host. >> Oh shucks. >> Rocking the salmon, King Salmon Vellante. And The Zog is back, Eric Herzog. Great to have you back. I was looking at you on Twitter and you have been on theCUBE 17 times. Is this 18 or 19? >> You know, I think Dave said I was on one of the very first CUBEs way back in 2010. So I've been on a few. >> That's a whole other criteria of VIP level. Well thank you for coming back. You have been, not only is he, you can't do a CUBE without Eric Herzog. You've been everywhere all over VMworld. I saw you're speaking at IBM booth on VMware and IBM, you're at Cisco, you're giving sessions. How do you fit it all in and still have time for us? >> Well, I always make time for theCUBE. >> Always? Thank you, thanks for that. >> Always make time for you guys. Love talking to CUBE. You guys have been very helpful. We appreciate everything that you do. Love doing shows, love 'em. I may be 60 years old, but I'm really 18 down underneath, so if I only sleep three hours a night, not a problem. >> What do you love about them? I mean, is it? >> Number one is meeting customers. Customers and channel partners, right? Well, all of the employees of all the various companies here get a paycheck from whoever that may be, me, IBM, someone from other companies, people from VMware. That's not who pays your salary. It's the end-users and the channel partners, if they buy through the channel. They're the ones that really pay your salary. So being close to the customers and the partners is number one. Second thing, of course, is seeing all the cool technology. You know, seeing what's going on, what's hot, what can we leverage from our perspective, what can we tie ourselves to. So for example, the hot things, that IBM's really been doing from a storage perspective. Cloud and modern data protection. Those are the two big things we've been focused on for the last couple of years. And how do we integrate our storage solutions and our modern data protection with cloud infrastructure, and then also how do we, if you're not in the cloud, how do we help customers protect their data better in a modern way and reuse their secondary data, instead of making 27,000 copies of the same data. >> So when theCUBE first started at VMworld, modern data protection at the time was dealing with the lack of physical resources, 'cause you went from 10 servers down to one, and you didn't have all that excess capacity to do a run up back up job anymore. Today, modern data protection is all around cloud and multi-cloud and software defined, so I wonder if you can help us sort of paint a picture of what modern data protection is for IBM? >> Sure, I think there's a couple, couple aspects too. So, first of all, you have to support the cloud, and that's two ways. So for us, several of our backup products are used by cloud service providers. In some cases they use our name, and say, "Featuring IBM Spectrum Protect or Spectrum Protect Plus." Other cases, they have their own brand but it's our software underneath the hood so that if the end user is backing up to their cloud, they're actually using our software. So that's item number one. The second thing is you need to make sure that your traditional storage software can TEAR to the cloud, can migrate data to the cloud, can transparently move data to the cloud in an automated fashion using AI. So using artificial intelligent when the data's hot if you connote a target, and that target could be a cloud, and when the data's hot it TEARs the data to the cloud. Sorry, when it's cold. When it's hot it pulls it back in and that needs to be all automated through AI base. So we've done both, we have our backup software which is available from several cloud providers as a backup as a service, we also offer it through the cloud so IBM Cloud actually sells spectrum protect backup as a service solution All of our primary storage software and even our spectrum scale software can automatically TEAR data to a cloud target device. >> Eric I got to ask you so TEARing used to be predominantly, correct me if you disagree but, it used be a one way trip to the bit-bucket. You just described going there and coming back. Has cloud changed that because of big data, analytics? Where people want to pull back data increasingly? >> So I think of a couple of things. So first of all, there's no doubt that the world is data driven. The most valuable asset isn't gold, it's not silver, it is absolutely not oil, it's not diamonds. It is data. And it doesn't matter whether you're one of the largest banks in the world, you're in manufacturing, you're in the government, or whether you're Herzog's barn grill. The data is your most valuable asset. What you do with your customer data, how you manage your business, what you do with your supply chain if your a services company, how are you servicing, what are you charging, what are you billing, all of that is the most critical thing that you have. So in a data driven world, its critical that you use the data. And that also means that because of valued data, when you backup the data or you snapshot or replicate the data, you now created a secondary copy. Well what if you could use it to do tests? What if you could use it to do big data analytics? What if you could use it for DevOps? So instead of making one copy for tests, one copy for disaster recovery, one copy for this, and have basically a plethora of copies all over the place, with what we've provided in modern data protection, you can use a backup, you can use a snap or a replica, and you can use that to do tests or development or to do big data analytics. And using that one copy not making multiple copies. So that's- >> I just want to pick up on something you said there's going to be some folks in our audience like, "yeah yeah we hear that data is more valuable than oil or more valuable than gold, et cetera, more valuable than platinum." There's evidence, if you look at the market value of the top five companies, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, Google, and Amazon, they've surpassed the banks, they've surpassed the energy companies, and I would argue its cuz of data. People are recognizing that they're data companies, you agree? >> But if you look at that name the only one that actually builds anything of substance, as a fair amount of their volume of revenue, is Apple. >> Is Apple, right. >> Amazon doesn't, they ship stuff. Facebook clearly doesn't, Google has a few things but not really builds stuff its really about the data. Absolutely and if your a more traditional company like a bank or someone building the table. Whoever builds this table if they have their act together and they're using that data right, they're building the table cheaper than anyone else, they're shipping it to theCUBE cheaper than anyone else could ship it to you. They got more colors because they know what their doing. And they ship you the right color table and they don't screw it up and send you a black table when you want it this color table because black won't show up on theCUBE very well. The more you do that the more money you make. Even something as simple as a table manufacturer. And that's all about the data and how you use that data. >> So Eric you love talking with customers which is great as the CMO for IBM storage. Got to talk to those customers. Let's talk about how you're seeing customers take the efficiencies of what IBM is doing with data protection, storage, et cetera. to be able to harness the power of AI, the superpowers that Pat Gelsinger talked about on Monday, and transform their businesses. Give us some of your favorite customer examples where its really revolutionary. >> So we had a great example today, we did a panel with a bunch of end users as part of the show agenda. And one of the customers is a provider of softwares of service to universities and schools. 45,000 customers between the universities, junior colleges, schools districts, et cetera. In North America so Canada and the U.S. And they are doing softwares of service so for them performance is critical, they can't go down. All of the college bookstores, if you go into a college bookstore, all of the infrastructure behind that is them. So they're called Follet. So a couple of things, one because they're doing softwares of service and managing all that. Its critical, can't go down. Got to be available, it's got to be performant, it's got to be resilient, it's got to be reliable. So that's how the storage melds in. From modern data protection the way it melds in is how many books did Dave buy? What did Eric buy? Oh is Dave buying a used book? Or is Eric buying a new book? Okay say we know that the propensity is certain of members of the community. I went to UC Davis, University of California Davis, are going to buy used books, Dave, whereas Herzog's going to buy new. They can figure that out, how many used books they need, how many new books they need, that's all about efficiency and how they make more money. What are the store hours? Certain universities it's this, other universities it's that. What do they do in the winter time? At UC Davis you can go in the winter time, I know you went to school in Boston its probably snowing, no one's going in the bookstore in the wintertime. >> Trend towards book rentals, how do we capitalize on that? >> That's all they do. One of the things they talked about was how they always have to protect that data and back it up. The other thing they talked about was they have to assume a lot of capacity. So what they do is they bought assuming they would have to refresh in 18 months. And because our storage arrays have a ton of different data reduction technology whether that be block, D2, compression, et cetera. And they have petabytes of data. Petabytes. 12 Petabytes. They've actually calculated it out they won't need to buy new storage for 36 months instead of 18 so they just saved on CapX. Through the intelligence of the storage. So in that case you've got both modern data protection and you've got a storage message. One of our other customers who's a public reference, not here at the show, which is a hospital, they were backing up all their data, both cloud and on premise with our backup software, and they went down and their entire system went down and they didn't lose one stitch of data and its a hospital. It's a teaching hospital, think they're in Pennsylvania, and in the public reference in the video he said, "and we went down and off that backup we were able to get all of the data back. We didn't lose any patient data, we didn't lose any research data, we didn't lose any billing data, if you break your arm they do bill you, they didn't lose anything." >> That's not just money, that's lives so that's huge. >> Absolutely. >> I want to ask you about you know that table example you were giving, and we were talking about the big five companies in terms of market cap being data orientated. There seems to be a gap between those sort of traditional companies and those data companies and that gap tends to be the data is often is often in silos its human expertise or expertise around a bottling plant or the manufacturing plant or whatever it is versus a data model with humans who understand how to leverage that data. Do you see, whether its through new data protection techniques or other storage techniques that IBM is working on, ways to help customers break down those data silos so they can become more digital and be able to take advantage of data? >> So I think there's a couple of things. So first of all at the very tactical level we provide this automated IA based data TEARing. We can tear from anything to anything so we can take data from an IBM array and TEAR it to an EMC array. We can take data from an EMC array and TEAR it to a net app array. A net app array to a Tachi array, an HP array back to our array, so we can do this transparent data move based on hot and cold. Not only does that allow you to control CapX and OpX you can move the data from array to array, and once you move that data set it might be working that other array could be hooked up to a different set of servers through the SAN that's running a different workload and then takes that dataset and use it with that other piece of software out on the server side. So that's item number one. Item number two is IBM not just in the storage but overall has a global program where IBM is promoting, through universities all over the world, data scientists. Part of that is training data scientists not only how to do the science of data and analyzing data and mining data and doing it, but to break down those walls. The value is more there. And we also have from a storage perspective some products are spectrum scale products, one of our customers who's one of the largest banks in the world they run 300,000 servers attached to a giant spectrum scale repository, petabytes and petabytes, and they do real time data analytics to see if Dave Vellante or Lisa's credit card was stolen. >> Thank you! >> Oh yes, thank you! >> So that's real world analytics they run but they need petabytes of data. And then with our IBM cloud object storage technology where we have several customers at the exabyte level in production with an exabyte of data, you put the data out when its cold but guess what, if you want to mine it you might want to pull it back and guess what, you can TEAR data from spectrum scale to IBM cloud object storage and then spectrum scale can pull it back in to do the big data analytic workloads. >> And that AI you're using is it heavy open source? Is there a little bit of Watson sprinkled in there? >> It's stuff the storage division developed years ago and then has peppered in the AI based technology into that software to determine when the dataset is hot or cold and then move it back or forth. We also do the old style, so if you go back 10 years ago, the automation of storage was policy based. So we had it way back when which was if the data is 30 days old move it to this array. >> The old HSM kind of... >> Yeah and it was automated so once it hit 30 days, but now what we've done is, we started with that, what I would call automation, and now we've moved that to AI. And by the way, if you still want to do it the old way and say move this data when its 60 days old, you can still do that. But the modern way is let the storage figure out for you and move it back and forth whether it be to the cloud or whether it be on premises. >> So it's intelligent hierarchical storage management? So if the characteristics change the system knows what to do as opposed to- >> So when it's hot it'll pull the data back into flash, for example, when its cold it'll put it out to cloud, it'll put it out to tape or it'll put it out to slow hard drives, either way. >> Alright Eric, so we're almost out of time here. You've been at IBM a long time, IBM's been around a long time, you said you even have customers at exabyte scale. I'm hearing heterogeneity, customer choice, but if I'm a small hospital in the middle of America and I have choice with data protection vendors, storage vendors, some smaller than IBM that might be able to move faster, what are the top three differentiators of why I would want to go with IBM's storage solutions? >> Sure so the first thing is our broad portfolio. Whether it be file block or object, whether it be modern data protection, whether it be archiving if you still want to use tape, we're the number one provider of tape in the world and we sell gobs of it to the web scale guys. >> Of course you do. >> They're the guys that buy it. >> Cuz its cost effective. >> So we've got one throat to choke, all of it talks to each other, and happens to work with all the cloud vendors not just IBM cloud. We work with Amazon, we work with Microsoft, we work with Google, and we work with IBM's own cloud. So we can work with anything. That's out of mind. Second thing, for smaller shops we have a network of business partners all over the world, some of them even deal with the big global Fortune 500 and others deal with small accounts. And then really the third thing is that IBM makes sure that our stuff works with everyone else's stuff. Whether that be cloud, our spectrum tech software which has been around for years and is the leading enterprise backup package, the bulk of what it backs up is not IBM storage. The vast bulk of it is from two of the competitors on the floor of this show, they also back up our stuff too. And we backup everyone's. There's probably 20 storage vendors we backup every one of their data. So if someone buys storage from XYZ, call me, we can back it up. If someone buys it from one of the big competitors we back it up, from us we back it up. So the fact that our software works with everyone's gear is of an advantage for both the small shop and the big shop. We make sure that our software, whether its embedded in our arrays or whether we sell it as just a pieces storage software and we are the number one storage software provider on the planet as well, we can meet the needs of any company big or small because we have this flexibility of working with our stuff and working with everybody else stuff and most of the other guys don't do that. If its a small shop their stuff usually only works with their stuff. >> And from a support perspective, you play with everybody? >> Global network. I mean we're known for our support whether it be IBM direct or what we do with our partners all the partners are certified, its a big certification process, and if they can't certify the product they can't sell IBM's stuff. That's just how we operate. Other people, if they can move a lot of boxes but they don't have anyone pick up the phone or can come out to Dave's house to install, they let them sell, we don't do that at IBM. We don't use those box mover types we go for guys that add value and know how to work with the cloud, know how to do hybrid cloud. One of our resellers designed a Watson based AI system that's used in bottle factories. Packaging. Beer, soda, milk, and it can figure out if its full or not full, if the bottle or can or carton is damaged. And they used Watson to do it. Now they're regular resell. They resell all the storage, they resell our power, they resell mainframe, but they've gone into the software development side using this Watson thing and they're selling a full solution with the software included to bottling plants all over the world. >> Wow, Eric. This has been a super charged conversation. Thanks for stopping by and talking with Dave and me about not just your excitement about talking with customers but really how IBM is really empowering customers of any size worldwide to succeed. We know we'll see you again soon but thanks for stopping by a couple of times this week. >> Great well thank you. Thank you, really appreciate the time. >> And the outfit choices are just on point guys, you blend well too. For Eric, Dave Vellante, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live from VMworld 2018 day 3. Stick around, we'll be back with our next guest after a short break. (electro music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Orlando, Florida for Cisco Live 2018. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Our next guest, Eric Herzog, Chief Marketing Officer and Vice President Global Channel Sales for IBM Storage. CUBE alum, great to see you. Thanks for comin' by. >> Great, we always love comin' and talkin' to theCUBE. >> Love havin' you on. Get the insight, and you get down and dirty in the storage. But I gotta, before we get into the storage impact, the cloud, and all the great performance requirements, and software you guys are building, news is that the CEO of Cisco swung by your booth? >> Yes, Chuck did come by today and asked how-- Chuck Robbins came by today, asked how we're doin'. IBM has a very broad relationship with Cisco, beyond just the storage division. The storage division, the IOT division, the collaboration group. Security's doin' a lot of stuff with them. IBM is one of Cisco's largest resellers through the GTS and GBS teams. So, he came by to see how were doin', and gave him a little plug about the VersaStack, and how it's better than any other converge solutions, but talked about all of IBM, and the strong IBM Cisco relationship. >> I mean, it's not a new relationship. Expand on what you guys are doin'. How does that intersect with division that he put on stage yesterday with the keynote. He laid out, and said publicly, and put the stake in the ground, pretty firmly, "This is the old way." Put an architecture, a firewall, a classic enterprise network diagram. >> Right, right. >> And said, "That's the old way," and put in a big circle, with all these different kinda capabilities with the cloud. It's a software defined world. Clearly Cisco moving up the stack, while maintaining the networking shops. >> Right. >> Networking and storage, always the linchpin of cloud and enterprise computing. What's the connection? Share the touch points. >> Sure, well I think the key thing is everyone's gotta realize that whether you're in a private cloud, a hybrid cloud, or a public cloud configuration, storage is that rock solid foundation. If you don't have a good foundation, the building will fall right over, and it's great that you've got cloud with its flexibility, it's ability to transform, the ability to modernize, move data around, but if what's underneath doesn't work, the whole thing topples over, and storage is a cruel element to that. Now, what we've done at IBM is we have made all of our solutions on the storage side, VersaStack, our all-flash arrays, all of our software defined storage, our modern data protection, everything is what we'll say is cloudified. K, it's, I designed for multiple cloud scenarios, whether it be private, hybrid, or public, or, as you've probably seen, in some the enterprise accounts, they actually use multiple public cloud providers. Whether it be from a price issue, or a legal issues, because they're all over the world, and we're supporting that with all our solutions. And, our VersaStack, specifically, just had a CVD done with Cisco, Cisco Validated Design, with IBM Cloud Private on a VersaStack. >> Talk about the scale piece, because this becomes the key differentiator. We've talked about on theCUBE, many of the times with you around, some of the performance you guys have, and the numbers are pretty good. You might wanna do a quick review on that. I'm not lookin' for speech and feeds. Really, Eric, I'd like to get your reaction, and view, and vision, on how the scale piece is kicking, 'cause clients want scale optionality. They're gonna have a lot of stuff on premise. They have cloud goin' on, multi cloud on the horizon, but they gotta scale. The numbers are off the charts. You're seein' all these security threats. I mean, it's massive. How are you guys addressing the scale question with storage? >> So, we've got a couple things. So first of all, the storage itself is easily scalable. For example, on our A9000 all-flash array, you just put a new one, automatically grows, don't have to do anything, k? With our transparent cloud tiering, you can set it up, whether it be our Spectrum Scale software, whether it be our Spectrum Virtualize software, or whether it be on our all-flash arrays, that you could automatically just move data to whatever your cloud target may be. Whether that be something with an object store, whether that be a block store, and it's all automated. So, the key thing here on scalability is transparency, ease of use, and automation. They wanna automatically join new capacity, wanna automatically move data from cloud to cloud, automatically move data from on premise to cloud, automatically move data from on premise to on premise, and IBM's storage solutions, from a software perspective, are all designed with that data mobility in mind, and that transportability, both on premise, and out to any cloud infrastructure they have. >> What should Cisco customers know about IBM storage, if you get to talk to them directly? We're here at Cisco Live. We've talked many times about what you guys got goin' on with the software. Love the software systems approach. You know we dig that. But a Cisco deployment, they've been blocking and tackling in the enterprise for years, clouds there. What's the pitch? What's the value proposition to Cisco clients? >> So, I think they key thing for us talkin' to a Cisco client is the deep level of integration we have. And, in this case, not just the storage division, but other things. So, for example, a lot of their collaboration stuff uses under pitting software from IBM, and IBM also uses some software from Cisco inside our collaboration package. In our storage package, the fact that we put together the VersaStack with all these Cisco Validated Designs, means that the customer, whether it be a cloud product, for example, on the VersaStack, about 20 of our public references are all small and medium cloud providers that wheel in the VersaStack, connect 'em, and it automatically grows simply and easily. So, in that case, you're looking at a cloud provider customer of Cisco, right? When you're looking at a enterprise customer of Cisco, man, the key thing is the level of integration that we have, and how we work together across the board, and the fact that we have all these Cisco Validated Designs for object storage, for file storage, for block storage, for IBM Cloud Private. All these things mean they know that it's gonna work, right outta the box, and whether they deploy it themselves, whether they use one of our resellers, one of our channel partners, or whether they use IBM services or Cisco service. Bottom line, it works right out of the box, easy to go, and they're up and running quickly. >> So, Eric, you talked a bunch about VersaStack, and you've been involved with Cisco and their UCS since the early days when they came up, and helped drive, really, this wave of converged infrastructure. >> Right. >> One of the biggest changes I've seen in the last couple years, is when you talk to customers, this is really their private cloud platform that they're building. When it first got rolled out, it was virtualization. We kinda added a little bit of management there. What, give us your viewpoint as to kinda high-level, why's this still such an important space, what are the reasons that customers are rolling this out, and how that fits into their overall cloud story? >> Well, I think you hit it, Stu, right on the head. First of all, it's easy to put in and deploy, k? That is a big check box. You're done, ready to go. Second thing that's important is be able to move data around easily, k? In an automated fashion like I said earlier, whether that be to a public cloud if they're gonna tier out. If I'm a private cloud, I got multiple data centers. I'm moving data around all the time. So, the physical infrastructure and data center A is a replica, or a DR center, for data center B, and vice versa. So, you gotta be able to move all this stuff around quickly easy. Part of the reason you're seeing converge infrastructure is it's the wave of what's hit in the server world. Instead of racking and stacking individual servers, and individual pieces of storage, you've got a pre-packed VersaStack. You've got Cisco networking, Cisco server, VMware, all of our storage, our storage software, including the ability to go out to a cloud, or with our ICP IBM Private Cloud, to create a private cloud. And so, that's why you're seeing this move towards converge. Yes, there's some hyperconverged out there in the market, too, but I think the big issue, in certain workloads, hyperconverged is the right way to go. In other workloads, especially if you're creating a giant private cloud, or if you're a cloud provider, that's not the way to go because the real difference is with hyperconverged you cannot scale compute and storage independently, you scale them together, So, if you need more storage, you scale compute, even if you don't need it. With regular converge, you scale them independently, and if you need more storage, you get more storage. If you need more compute-- If you need both, you get both. And that's a big advantage. You wanna keep the capex and opex down as you create this infrastructure for cloud. 'Member, part of the whole idea of cloud are a couple things. A, it's supposed to be agile. B, it's supposed to be super flexible. C, of course, is the modern nomenclature, but D is reduce capex and opex. And you wanna make sure that you can do that simply and easily, and VersaStack, and our relationship with Cisco, even if you're not using a VersaStack config, allows us to do that for the end user. >> And somethin' we're seeing is it's really the first step for customers. I need to quote, as you said, modernize the platform, and then I can really start looking at modernizing my applications on top of that. >> Right. Well, I think, today, it's all about how do you create the new app? What are you doin' with containers? So, for example, all of our arrays, and all of our arrays that go into a VersaStack, have free persistent storage support for any containerize environ, for dockers and kubernetes, and we don't charge for that. You just get it for free. So, when you buy those solutions, you know that as you move to the container world, and I would argue virtualization is still here to stay, but that doesn't mean that containers aren't gonna overtake it. And if I was the CEO of a couple different virtualization companies, I'd be thinkin' about buyin' a container company 'cause that'll be the next wave of the future, and you'll say-- >> Don't fear kubernetes. >> Yeah, all of that. >> Yeah, Eric Herzog's flying over to Dockercon, make a big announcement, I think, so. (laughing) >> Evaluation gonna drop a little bit. I gotta ask you a question. I mean, obviously, we watch the trends that David Floy and our team, NVMe is big topic. What is the NVMe leadership plan for you, on the product side, for you? Can you take a minute to share your vision for what that is gonna be? >> Sure, well we've already publicly announced. We've been shipping an NVMe over fabric solution leveraging InfiniBand since February of this year, and we demoed it, actually, in December at the AI Conference in New York City. So, we've had a fabric solution for NVMe already since December, and then shipping in February. The other thing we're doing is we publicly announced that we'd be supporting the other NVMe over fabric protocols, both fabric channel and ethernet by the end of the year. We publicly already announced that. We also announced that we would have an end to end strategy. In this case, you would be talking about NVMe on the fabric side going out to the switching and the host infrastructure, but also NVMe in a storage sub-system, and we already publicly announced that we'd be doing that this year. >> And how's the progress on that plan? You feel good about it? >> We're getting there. I can't comment yet, but just stay tuned on July 1st, and see what happens. >> So, talk about the Spectrum NAS, and other announcements that you have. What's goin' on? What are the big news? What's happening? >> Well, I think that, yeah, the big thing for us has been all about software. As you know, for the analysts that track the numbers, we are, and ended up in 2017, as tied as the number one storage software company in the world, independent of our system's business. So, one of the key powers there is that our software works with everyone's gear, whether it be a white box through a distributor or reseller, whether it be our direct competitors. Spectrum Protect, which is a, one of the best enterprise backup packages. We backup everybody's gear, our gear, NetApp's gear, HP's gear, Pure's gear, Hitachi's gear, the old Dell stuff, it doesn't matter to us, we backup everything. So, one of the powers that IBM has, from a software perspective, is always being able to support not only our own gear, but supporting all of our competitors as well. And the whole white box market, with things that our partners may put together through the distributors. >> I know somethin' might be obvious to you, but just take me through the benefits to the customer. What's the impact to the customer? Obviously, supporting everything, it sounds like you guys have done that with software, so you're agnostic on hardware. >> Right. >> So, is it a single pane of glass? What's the benefit to the customer with that software capability? >> Yeah, I feel there's a couple things. So, first of all, the same software that we sell as standalone software, we also sell on our arrays. So if you're in a hybrid configuration, and you're using our Flashsystem V9000 in our Storwize family, that software also works with an EMC, or NetApp box. So, one license, one way to do everything, one set of training, which in a small shop is not that important, but in a big shop, you don't have to manage three licenses, right? You don't have to get trained up on three different ways to do things, and you don't have to, by the way, document, which all the big companies would do. So it dramatically simplifies their life from an opex perspective. Makes it easier for them to run their business. >> Eric, we'd love to get your opinion on just how's Cisco doin' out there? It's a big sprawling company. I looked at the opening keynote, the large infrastructure business doing very well in the data center, but they've got collaboration, they do video, they're moving out in the cloud. Wanna see your thoughts as to how are they doing, and still making sure they take care of core networking, while still expanding and going through their own transformation, that they're talkin' very public about. How do we measure Cisco as a software company? >> Well, we see some very good signs there. I mean, we partner with 'em all the time, as I mentioned, for example, in both the security group and our collaboration group, and I'm not talkin' storage now, just IBM in general, we leverage software from them, and they leverage software from us. We deliver joint solutions through our partners, or through each of the two service organizations, but we also have products where we incorporate their software into ours, and they incorporate software in us. So, from our perspective, we've already been doing it beyond their level, now, of expanding into a much greater software play. For us, it's been a strong play for us already because of the joint work we've been doing now for several years on software that they've been selling in the more traditional world, and now pushing out into the broader areas, like cloud, for example. >> Awesome work. Eric, thanks for coming on. I gotta ask you one final, personal, question. >> Sure. >> You got the white shirt on, you usually have a Hawaiian shirt on. >> Well, because Chuck Robbins came by the booth, as we talked about earlier today, felt that I shouldn't have my IBM Hawaiian shirt on, however, now that I've met Chuck, next time, at next Cisco Live, I'll have my IBM Hawaiian shirt on versus my IBM traditional shirt. >> Chuck's a cool guy. Thanks for comin' on. As always, great commentary. You know your stuff. >> Great, thank you. >> Great to have the slicing and dicing, the IBM storage situation, as well as the overall industry landscape. At Cisco Live, we're breakin' it down, here on theCUBE in Orlando. Second day of three days of coverage. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, stay with us for more live coverage after this break.

>> Announcer: Live from Barcelona, Spain it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, Veeam, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone and welcome back. This is theCUBE live here in Barcelona for Cisco Live Europe. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE, with Stu Miniman analyst at Wikibon, covering networking storage and all infrastructure cloud. Stu Miniman, Stu. Our next guest is Eric Herzog, who's the Chief Marketing Officer at IBM Storage Systems. Eric, CUBE alumni, he's been on so many times I can't even count. You get the special VIP badge. We're here breaking down all the top stories at Cisco Live in Europe, kicking off 2018. Although it's the European show, not the big show, certainly kicking off the year with a lot of new concepts that aren't necessarily new, but they're innovative. Eric, welcome to theCUBE again. >> Well, thank you. We always love participating in theCUBE. IBM is a strong supporter of theCUBE and all the things you do for us, so thank you very much for having us again. >> A lot of great thought leadership from IBM, really appreciate you guys' support over the years. But now we're in a sea change. IBM had their first quarter of great results, and that will be well-reported on SiliconANGLE, but the sea change is happening. You've been living this generation, you've seen couple cycles in the past. Cisco putting forth a vision of the future, which is pretty right on. They were right on Internet of Things ten years ago, they had it all right, but they're a networking company that's transformed up the stack over the years. Now on the front lines of no perimeter, okay, more security challenges, cloud big whales with no networking and storage. You're in the middle of it. Break it down. Why is Cisco Live so important now than ever before? >> Well, for us it's very important because one, we have a strategic relationship with Cisco, the Storage Division does a product with Cisco called the VersaStack, converged infrastructure, and in fact one of our key constituents for the VersaStack are MSPs and CSPs, which is a key constituent of Cisco, especially with their emphasis on the cloud. Second thing for us is IBM storage has gone heavily cloud. So going heavily cloud with our software, in addition to what we do with our solutions as a foundation for CSPs and MSPs. Just what we've integrated into our software-defined storage for cloud makes Cisco Live an ideal venue for us, and Cisco an ideal partner. >> So I've got to ask you, we've had conversations on theCUBE before, they're all on youtube.com/siliconangle, just search Eric Herzog, you'll find them. But I want to recycle this one point and get your comments and reaction here in Barcelona. You guys have transformed with software at IBM big-time with storage. Okay, you're positioned well for the cloud. What's the most important thing that companies have to do, like IBM and Cisco, to play an innovator role in the cloud game as we have software at the center of the value proposition? >> Well I think the key thing is, when you look at cloud infrastructure, first of all, the cloud's got to run on something. So you need some sort of structural, infrastructure foundation. Servers, networking, and compute. So at IBM and with Cisco, we're positioning ourselves as the ideal rock-solid foundation for the cloud building, if you will. So that's item number one. Item number two, our software in particular can survive, not only on premises, but can bridge and go from on-premise to a public cloud, creating a hybrid infrastructure, and that allows us to also run cloud instantiation. Several of our products are available from IBM Cloud Division, Amazon offers some of the IBM storage software, over three hundred cloud service providers, smaller ones, offer IBM Spectrum Protect as a back-up service. So we've already morphed into storage software, either A, bridging the cloud in a hybrid config, or being used by cloud providers as some of their storage offerings for end-users and businesses. >> Eric, wanted to get to, one of the partnership areas that you've talked about with Cisco is VersaStack. We've talked with you a number of times about converged infrastructure, that partnership, Cisco UCS taking all the virtualization. The buzz in the market, there's a lot of discussion, oh it's hyper-converged, it's cloud. Why is converged infrastructure still relevant today? >> Well, when you look at the analysts that track the numbers, you can see that the overall converged market is growing and hyper-converged is viewed as a subset. When you look at those numbers, this year close to 17 billion US, about 75% of it is still standard converged versus hyper-converged. One of the other differences, it's the right tool for the right job. So customers need to go in eyes open. So when you do a hyper-converged infrastructure, by the way IBM offers a hyper-converged infrastructure currently with Nutanix, so we actually have both, the Nutanix partnership offering hyper-converged and a partnership with Cisco on standard converged. It's really, how do you size the right tool for the right job? And one of the negatives of hyper-converged, very easy to deploy, that's great, but one of the negatives is every time you need more storage, you have to add more server. Every time you need more server, you add more storage. With this traditional converged infrastructure, you can add servers only, or networking only, or storage only. So I think when you're in certain configurations, workloads, and applications, hyper-converged is the right solution, IBM's got a solution. In other situations, particularly as your middle-sized and bigger apps, regular converged is better 'cause you can basically parse and size up or down compute, networking, and the storage independent of each other, whereas in hyper-converged you have to do it at the same time. And that's a negative where you're either over-buying your storage when you don't need it, or you're over-buying your compute when you don't need it. With standard converged, you don't have that issue. You buy what you need when you need it. But I think most big companies, for sure, have certain workloads that are best with hyper-converged, and we've got that, and other workloads that are best with converged, and we have that as well. >> Okay, the other big growth area in storage for the last bunch of years has been flash. IBM's got a strong position in all-flash arrays. What's new there, how are some of the technologies changing? Any impact on the network that we should be really understanding at this show? >> Sure, so couple things. So first of all, we just brought out some very high-density all-flash arrays in Q4. We can put 220 terabytes in two rack U, which is a building block that we use in several different of our all-flash configurations, including our all-flash VersaStack. The other thing we do is we embed software-defined storage on our, software-defined storage actually on our physical all-flash arrays. Most companies don't do that, so they've got an all-flash offering and if they have a software-defined offering it's actually a different piece of software. For us it's the same, so it's easier to deploy, it's easier to train, it's easier to license, it's easier for a reseller to sell if you happen to be using a reseller. And the other thing is it's battle-hardened, because it's not only standalone software, but it's actually on the arrays as well. So from a test infrastructure quality issue, versus other vendors that have certain software that goes on their all-flash array, and then a different set of software for all software-defined. It doesn't make logical sense when you can cover it with one thing. So that's an important difference for us, and a big innovator. I think the last thing you're going to see that does impact networking is the rise of NVMe over fabrics. IBM did a statement of direction last May outlining what we're doing. We did a public demonstration of an InfiniBand fabric at the AI summit in New York in December, and we will be having an announcement around NVMe fabrics on the 20th of February. So stay tuned to hear us then. We'll be launching some more NVMe with fabric infrastructure at that time. >> Eric, I just, people that have been watching, there's been a lot of discussion about NVMe for a number of years, and NVMe over fabric more recently. How big a deal is this for the industry? You've seen many of these waves. Is this transformational or is it, you know, every storage company I talk to is working on this, so how's it going to be differentiated? What should users be looking to be able to, who do they partner with, how do they choose that solution, and when's it going to be ready? >> So first of all, I view it as an evolution, okay. If you take storage in general, arrays, you know we used to do punch cards. I'm old enough I remember using punch cards at the University of California. Then, it all went to tape. And if you look at old Schwarzenegger movies from the 80s, I love Schwarzenegger spy movies, what's there? IBM systems with big IBM tape, and not for back-up, for primary storage. Then in the late-80s, early-90s, IBM and a few other vendors came out with hard drive-based arrays that got hooked up to mainframes and then obviously into minis and to the rise of the LAN. Those have given away to all-flash arrays. From a connectivity perspective, you've had SCSI, you had ultra SCSI, you had ultra fast SCSI, ultra fast wide SCSI. Then you had fiber channel. So now as an infrastructure both in an array, as a connectivity between storage and the CPUs used in an array system, will be NVMe, and then you're going to have NVMe running over fabrics. So I view this as an evolution, right? >> John: What's the driver, performance or flexibility? >> A little bit of both. So from the in-box perspective, inside of an array solution, the major chip manufacturers are putting NVMe to increase the speed from storage going into the CPUs. So that will benefit the performance to the end-user for applications, workloads, and use cases. Then what they've done is Intel has pushed, with all the industry, IBM's a member of the NVMe consortium as well, has pushed using the NVMe protocol over fabrics, which also gives some added performance over fabric networks as well. So you've got it, but again I view this again as evolution, because punch cards, tape was faster, hard drive arrays were faster than tape, then flash arrays are faster, now you're going to have NVMe in the flash array, and also NVMe over fabric with connecting all-flash array. >> So I have to ask you the real question that's on everyone's mind that's out there, because storage is one of those areas that you never see it stopping. There's always venture back start-ups, you see new hot start-ups coming out of the woodwork, and there's been some failures lately and some blame NVMe's innovation to kind of killing some start-ups, I won't name names. But the real issue is the lines that were once blurred are now forming, and there's the wrong side of history and the right side of history. So I've got to ask you, what's going to be the right side of history in the storage architecture that people need to get onto to win in the future? >> So, there's a couple key points. One, all storage infrastructure and storage software needs to interface with cloud infrastructure. Got to be hybrid, if you have a software play like we do, where the software, such as our Spectrum Scale or our Spectrum Protect or Spectrum Protect Plus, can exist as a cloud service through a service rider, that's where you want to be. You don't want to have just a standard array and that's all you sell. So you want to have an array business, you want to make sure that's highly performant, you want to make sure that's the position, and the infrastructure underneath clouds, which means not only very fast, but also incredibly resilient. And that includes both cloud configs and AI. If you're going to do real-time AI, if you're going to do dark trading on Wall Street using AI instead of human beings, A, if the storage isn't really fast you're going to miss a 10 million dollar, hundred million dollar transaction. Second thing, if it's not resilient and always available, you're really in trouble. And god forbid when they bring AI to healthcare, and I mean AI in the operating room, boy if that storage fails when I'm on the table, wow. That's not going to be good. So those are the things you got to integrate with in the future. AI and cloud, whether it's software-defined in the array space, or if you're like IBM in both markets. >> John: Performance and resilient. >> Performance and resiliency is critical. >> All right, so Eric I have a non-storage question for you. >> Eric: Absolutely. >> So you've got the CMO hat for a division of IBM. You've been CMO of a start-up, you've been in this industry for a while. What's the changing role of the CMO in today's digital world? >> So I think the key thing is digital is a critical method of the overall marketing mix. And everything needs to reinforce everything. So let's take an example. One of the large storage websites and magazines recently announced that IBM is a finalist for four product-of-the-year awards. Two for all-flash arrays and two for software-defined storage. So guess what we've done? We've amplified it over LinkedIn, over IBM Facebook, through our Twitter handle, we leverage that. We use it at trade shows. So digital is A, the first foray, right? People look on your website and look at what you're doing socially before they even decide, should I really call them up, or should I really go to their booth a trade show? >> So discovery and learning is happening online. >> Discovery and learning, but even progression. We just, I just happened to tweet and LinkedIn this morning, Clarinet, a large European cloud MSP and CSP, just selected IBM all-flash arrays, IBM Spectrum Protect, and IBM Spectrum Virtualize for their cloud infrastructure. And obviously their target, they sell to end-users and companies, right? But the key thing is we tweeted it, we linked it in, we're going to use it here at the show, we're going to use it in PR efforts. So digital is a critical element of the marketing mix, it's not a fad. It also can be a lead dog. So if you're going to a trade show, you should tweet about it and link it in, just the way you guys do. We all knew you were coming to this show, we know you're going to IBM Think, we know you're going to VM World and Oracle, all these great shows. How do we find out? We follow you on social media and on the digital market space, so it's critical. >> And video, video a big role in - >> Video is critical. We use your videos all the time, obviously. I always tweet them and link them in once I'm posted. >> Clip and stick is the new buzzword. Clip 'em and stick 'em. Our new clipper tool, you've seen that. >> (laughs) Yes, I have. So it's really critical, though, that, you can, and remember, I'm like one of the oldest guys in the storage business, I'm 60 years old, I've been doing this 32 years, seven start-ups, EMC, IBM twice, Mac store Seagate, so I've done big and small. This is a sea change transformation in marketing. The key thing is you have to make it not stand on its own, integrate everything. PR, analyst relations, digital in everything you do, digital with shows and how you integrate the whole buyer's journey, and put it together. And people are using digital more and more, in fact I saw a survey from a biz school, 75% of people are looking at you digitally before they ever even call you up or call one of your resellers if you use the channel, to talk about your products. That's a sea change. >> You guys do a great job with content marketing, hats off to you guys. All right, final question for you, take a minute to just quickly explain the relationship that IBM has with Cisco and the importance of it, specifically what you guys are doing with them, how you guys go on to market to customers, and what's the impact to the customer. >> So, first of all, we have a very broad relationship with Cisco, Obviously I'm the CMO of the Storage Division, so I focus on storage, but several other divisions of IBM have powerful relationships. The IoT group, the Collaboration group. Cisco's one of our valued partners. We don't have networking products, so our Global Technology Services Division is one of the largest resellers of Cisco in the world, whether it be networking, servers, converge, what-have-you, so it's a strong, powerful relationship. From an end-user perspective, the importance is they know that the two companies are working together hand-in-glove. Sometimes you have two companies where you buy solutions from the A and B, and A and B don't even talk to each other, and yes they both go to the PlugFest or the Compatibility Lab, but they don't really work together, and their technology doesn't work together. IBM and Cisco have gone well beyond that to make sure that we work closely together in all of the divisions, including the storage division, with our Cisco-validated designs. And then lastly, whether it's delivered through the direct sales model or through the valued business partners that IBM and Cisco share, it's critical the end-user know, and the partners know, they're getting something that works together and doesn't just have the works option. It's tightly-honed and finely-integrated, whether it be storage or the IoT Division, the Collaboration Division, Cisco is a heavy proponent of IBM Security Division. >> Product teams work together? >> Yeah, all the product teams work together, trade APIs back and forth, not just doing the, and let's go do a test, compatibility test. Which everybody does that, but we go well beyond that with IBM and Cisco together. >> And it's a key relationship for you guys? >> Key relationship for the Storage Division, as well as for many of the other divisions of IBM, it's a critical relationship with Cisco. >> All right, Eric Herzog, Chief Marketing Officer for the Storage Systems group at IBM. It's theCUBE live coverage in Barcelona, I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, back with more from Barcelona Cisco Live Europe after this short break. (upbeat techno music)