>>Hey everyone, welcome to this event, HPE Compute Security. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Kevin Dee joins me next Senior director, future Surfer Architecture at hpe. Kevin, it's great to have you back on the program. >>Thanks, Lisa. I'm glad to be here. >>One of the topics that we're gonna unpack in this segment is, is all about cybersecurity. And if we think of how dramatically the landscape has changed in the last couple of years, I was looking at some numbers that H P V E had provided. Cybercrime will reach 10.5 trillion by 2025. It's a couple years away. The average total cost of a data breach is now over 4 million, 15% year over year crime growth predicted over the next five years. It's no longer if we get hit, it's when it's how often. What's the severity? Talk to me about the current situation with the cybersecurity landscape that you're seeing. >>Yeah, I mean the, the numbers you're talking about are just staggering and then that's exactly what we're seeing and that's exactly what we're hearing from our customers is just absolutely key. Customers have too much to lose. The, the dollar cost is just, like I said, staggering. And, and here at HP we know we have a huge part to play, but we also know that we need partnerships across the industry to solve these problems. So we have partnered with, with our, our various partners to deliver these Gen 11 products. Whether we're talking about partners like a M D or partners like our Nick vendors, storage card vendors. We know we can't solve the problem alone. And we know this, the issue is huge. And like you said, the numbers are staggering. So we're really, we're really partnering with, with all the right players to ensure we have a secure solution so we can stay ahead of the bad guys to try to limit the, the attacks on our customers. >>Right. Limit the damage. What are some of the things that you've seen particularly change in the last 18 months or so? Anything that you can share with us that's eye-opening, more eye-opening than some of the stats we already shared? >>Well, there, there's been a massive number of attacks just in the last 12 months, but I wouldn't really say it's so much changed because the amount of attacks has been increasing dramatically over the years for many, many, many years. It's just a very lucrative area for the bad guys, whether it's ransomware or stealing personal data, whatever it is, it's there. There's unfortunately a lot of money to be made into it, made from it, and a lot of money to be lost by the good guys, the good guys being our customers. So it's not so much that it's changed, it's just that it's even accelerating faster. So the real change is, it's accelerating even faster because it's becoming even more lucrative. So we have to stay ahead of these bad guys. One of the statistics of Microsoft operating environments, the number of tax in the last year, up 50% year over year, that's a huge acceleration and we've gotta stay ahead of that. We have to make sure our customers don't get impacted to the level that these, these staggering number of attacks are. The, the bad guys are out there. We've gotta protect, protect our customers from the bad guys. >>Absolutely. The acceleration that you talked about is, it's, it's kind of frightening. It's very eye-opening. We do know that security, you know, we've talked about it for so long as a, as a a C-suite priority, a board level priority. We know that as some of the data that HPE e also sent over organizations are risking are, are listing cyber risks as a top five concern in their organization. IT budgets spend is going up where security is concerned. And so security security's on everyone's mind. In fact, the cube did, I guess in the middle part of last, I did a series on this really focusing on cybersecurity as a board issue and they went into how companies are structuring security teams changing their assumptions about the right security model, offense versus defense. But security's gone beyond the board, it's top of mind and it's on, it's in an integral part of every conversation. So my question for you is, when you're talking to customers, what are some of the key challenges that they're saying, Kevin, these are some of the things the landscape is accelerating, we know it's a matter of time. What are some of those challenges and that they're key pain points that they're coming to you to help solve? >>Yeah, at the highest level it's simply that security is incredibly important to them. We talked about the numbers. There's so much money to be lost that what they come to us and say, is security's important for us? What can you do to protect us? What can you do to prevent us from being one of those statistics? So at a high level, that's kind of what we're seeing at a, with a little more detail. We know that there's customers doing digital transformations. We know that there's customers going hybrid cloud, they've got a lot of initiatives on their own. They've gotta spend a lot of time and a lot of bandwidth tackling things that are important to their business. They just don't have the bandwidth to worry about yet. Another thing which is security. So we are doing everything we can and partnering with everyone we can to help solve those problems for customers. >>Cuz we're hearing, hey, this is huge, this is too big of a risk. How do you protect us? And by the way, we only have limited bandwidth, so what can we do? What we can do is make them assured that that platform is secure, that we're, we are creating a foundation for a very secure platform and that we've worked with our partners to secure all the pieces. So yes, they still have to worry about security, but there's pieces that we've taken care of that they don't have to worry about and there's capabilities that we've provided that they can use and we've made that easy so they can build su secure solutions on top of it. >>What are some of the things when you're in customer conversations, Kevin, that you talk about with customers in terms of what makes HPE E'S approach to security really unique? >>Well, I think a big thing is security is part of our, our dna. It's part of everything we do. Whether we're designing our own asics for our bmc, the ilo ASIC ILO six used on Gen 11, or whether it's our firmware stack, the ILO firmware, our our system, UFI firmware, all those pieces in everything we do. We're thinking about security. When we're building products in our factory, we're thinking about security. When we're think designing our supply chain, we're thinking about security. When we make requirements on our suppliers, we're driving security to be a key part of those components. So security is in our D N a security's top of mind. Security is something we think about in everything we do. We have to think like the bad guys, what could the bad guy take advantage of? What could the bad guy exploit? So we try to think like them so that we can protect our customers. >>And so security is something that that really is pervasive across all of our development organizations, our supply chain organizations, our factories, and our partners. So that's what we think is unique about HPE is because security is so important and there's a whole lot of pieces of our reliance servers that we do ourselves that many others don't do themselves. And since we do it ourselves, we can make sure that security's in the design from the start, that those pieces work together in a secure manner. So we think that gives us a, an advantage from a security standpoint. >>Security is very much intention based at HPE e I was reading in some notes, and you just did a great job of talking about this, that fundamental security approach, security is fundamental to defend against threats that are increasingly complex through what you also call an uncompromising focus to state-of-the-art security and in in innovations built into your D N A. And then organizations can protect their infrastructure, their workloads, their data from the bad guys. Talk to us briefly in our final few minutes here, Kevin, about fundamental uncompromising protected the value in it for me as an HPE customer. >>Yeah, when we talk about fundamental, we're talking about the those fundamental technologies that are part of our platform. Things like we've integrated TPMS and sorted them down in our platforms. We now have platform certificates as a standard part of the platform. We have I dev id and probably most importantly, our platforms continue to support what we really believe was a groundbreaking technology, Silicon Root of trust and what that's able to do. We have millions of lines of firmware code in our platforms and with Silicon Root of trust, we can authenticate all of those lines of firmware. Whether we're talking about the the ILO six firmware, our U E I firmware, our C P L D in the system, there's other pieces of firmware. We authenticate all those to make sure that not a single line of code, not a single bit has been changed by a bad guy, even if the bad guy has physical access to the platform. >>So that silicon route of trust technology is making sure that when that system boots off and that hands off to the operating system and then eventually the customer's application stack that it's starting with a solid foundation, that it's starting with a system that hasn't been compromised. And then we build other things into that silicon root of trust, such as the ability to do the scans and the authentications at runtime, the ability to automatically recover if we detect something has been compromised, we can automatically update that compromised piece of firmware to a good piece before we've run it because we never want to run firmware that's been compromised. So that's all part of that Silicon Root of Trust solution and that's a fundamental piece of the platform. And then when we talk about uncompromising, what we're really talking about there is how we don't compromise security. >>And one of the ways we do that is through an extension of our Silicon Root of trust with a capability called S Spdm. And this is a technology that we saw the need for, we saw the need to authenticate our option cards and the firmware in those option cards. Silicon Root Prota, Silicon Root Trust protects against many attacks, but one piece it didn't do is verify the actual option card firmware and the option cards. So we knew to solve that problem we would have to partner with others in the industry, our nick vendors, our storage controller vendors, our G vendors. So we worked with industry standards bodies and those other partners to design a capability that allows us to authenticate all of those devices. And we worked with those vendors to get the support both in their side and in our platform side so that now Silicon Rivers and trust has been extended to where we protect and we trust those option cards as well. >>So that's when, when what we're talking about with Uncompromising and with with Protect, what we're talking about there is our capabilities around protecting against, for example, supply chain attacks. We have our, our trusted supply chain solution, which allows us to guarantee that our server, when it leaves our factory, what the server is, when it leaves our factory, will be what it is when it arrives at the customer. And if a bad guy does anything in that transition, the transit from our factory to the customer, they'll be able to detect that. So we enable certain capabilities by default capability called server configuration lock, which can ensure that nothing in the server exchange, whether it's firmware, hardware, configurations, swapping out processors, whatever it is, we'll detect if a bad guy did any of that and the customer will know it before they deploy the system. That gets enabled by default. >>We have an intrusion detection technology option when you use by the, the trusted supply chain that is included by default. That lets you know, did anybody open that system up, even if the system's not plugged in, did somebody take the hood off and potentially do something malicious to it? We also enable a capability called U EFI secure Boot, which can go authenticate some of the drivers that are located on the option card itself. Those kind of capabilities. Also ilo high security mode gets enabled by default. So all these things are enabled in the platform to ensure that if it's attacked going from our factory to the customer, it will be detected and the customer won't deploy a system that's been maliciously attacked. So that's got >>It, >>How we protect the customer through those capabilities. >>Outstanding. You mentioned partners, my last question for you, we've got about a minute left, Kevin is bring AMD into the conversation, where do they fit in this >>AMD's an absolutely crucial partner. No one company even HP can do it all themselves. There's a lot of partnerships, there's a lot of synergies working with amd. We've been working with AMD for almost 20 years since we delivered our first AM MD base ProLiant back in 2004 H HP ProLiant, DL 5 85. So we've been working with them a long time. We work with them years ahead of when a processor is announced, we benefit each other. We look at their designs and help them make their designs better. They let us know about their technology so we can take advantage of it in our designs. So they have a lot of security capabilities, like their memory encryption technologies, their a MD secure processor, their secure encrypted virtualization, which is an absolutely unique and breakthrough technology to protect virtual machines and hypervisor environments and protect them from malicious hypervisors. So they have some really great capabilities that they've built into their processor, and we also take advantage of the capabilities they have and ensure those are used in our solutions and in securing the platform. So a really such >>A great, great partnership. Great synergies there. Kevin, thank you so much for joining me on the program, talking about compute security, what HPE is doing to ensure that security is fundamental, that it is unpromised and that your customers are protected end to end. We appreciate your insights, we appreciate your time. >>Thank you very much, Lisa. >>We've just had a great conversation with Kevin Depu. Now I get to talk with David Chang, data center solutions marketing lead at a md. David, welcome to the program. >>Thank, thank you. And thank you for having me. >>So one of the hot topics of conversation that we can't avoid is security. Talk to me about some of the things that AMD is seeing from the customer's perspective, why security is so important for businesses across industries. >>Yeah, sure. Yeah. Security is, is top of mind for, for almost every, every customer I'm talking to right now. You know, there's several key market drivers and, and trends, you know, in, out there today that's really needing a better and innovative solution for, for security, right? So, you know, the high cost of data breaches, for example, will cost enterprises in downtime of, of the data center. And that time is time that you're not making money, right? And potentially even leading to your, to the loss of customer confidence in your, in your cust in your company's offerings. So there's real costs that you, you know, our customers are facing every day not being prepared and not having proper security measures set up in the data center. In fact, according to to one report, over 400 high-tech threats are being introduced every minute. So every day, numerous new threats are popping up and they're just, you know, the, you know, the bad guys are just getting more and more sophisticated. So you have to take, you know, measures today and you have to protect yourself, you know, end to end with solutions like what a AM MD and HPE has to offer. >>Yeah, you talked about some of the costs there. They're exorbitant. I've seen recent figures about the average, you know, cost of data breacher ransomware is, is close to, is over $4 million, the cost of, of brand reputation you brought up. That's a great point because nobody wants to be the next headline and security, I'm sure in your experiences. It's a board level conversation. It's, it's absolutely table stakes for every organization. Let's talk a little bit about some of the specific things now that A M D and HPE E are doing. I know that you have a really solid focus on building security features into the EPIC processors. Talk to me a little bit about that focus and some of the great things that you're doing there. >>Yeah, so, you know, we partner with H P E for a long time now. I think it's almost 20 years that we've been in business together. And, and you know, we, we help, you know, we, we work together design in security features even before the silicons even, you know, even born. So, you know, we have a great relationship with, with, with all our partners, including hpe and you know, HPE has, you know, an end really great end to end security story and AMD fits really well into that. You know, if you kind of think about how security all started, you know, in, in the data center, you, you've had strategies around encryption of the, you know, the data in, in flight, the network security, you know, you know, VPNs and, and, and security on the NS. And, and even on the, on the hard drives, you know, data that's at rest. >>You know, encryption has, you know, security has been sort of part of that strategy for a a long time and really for, you know, for ages, nobody really thought about the, the actual data in use, which is, you know, the, the information that's being passed from the C P U to the, the, the memory and, and even in virtualized environments to the, the, the virtual machines that, that everybody uses now. So, you know, for a long time nobody really thought about that app, you know, that third leg of, of encryption. And so a d comes in and says, Hey, you know, this is things that as, as the bad guys are getting more sophisticated, you, you have to start worrying about that, right? And, you know, for example, you know, you know, think, think people think about memory, you know, being sort of, you know, non-persistent and you know, when after, you know, after a certain time, the, the, you know, the, the data in the memory kind of goes away, right? >>But that's not true anymore because even in in memory data now, you know, there's a lot of memory modules that still can retain data up to 90 minutes even after p power loss. And with something as simple as compressed, compressed air or, or liquid nitrogen, you can actually freeze memory dams now long enough to extract the data from that memory module for up, you know, up, up to two or three hours, right? So lo more than enough time to read valuable data and, and, and even encryption keys off of that memory module. So our, our world's getting more complex and you know, more, the more data out there, the more insatiable need for compute and storage. You know, data management is becoming all, all the more important, you know, to keep all of that going and secure, you know, and, and creating security for those threats. It becomes more and more important. And, and again, especially in virtualized environments where, you know, like hyperconverged infrastructure or vir virtual desktop memories, it's really hard to keep up with all those different attacks, all those different attack surfaces. >>It sounds like what you were just talking about is what AMD has been able to do is identify yet another vulnerability Yes. Another attack surface in memory to be able to, to plug that hole for organizations that didn't, weren't able to do that before. >>Yeah. And, you know, and, and we kind of started out with that belief that security needed to be scalable and, and able to adapt to, to changing environments. So, you know, we, we came up with, you know, the, you know, the, the philosophy or the design philosophy that we're gonna continue to build on those security features generational generations and stay ahead of those evolving attacks. You know, great example is in, in the third gen, you know, epic C P U, that family that we had, we actually created this feature called S E V S N P, which stands for SECURENESS Paging. And it's really all around this, this new attack where, you know, your, the, the, you know, it's basically hypervisor based attacks where people are, you know, the bad actors are writing in to the memory and writing in basically bad data to corrupt the mem, you know, to corrupt the data in the memory. So s e V S and P is, was put in place to help, you know, secure that, you know, before that became a problem. And, you know, you heard in the news just recently that that becoming a more and more, more of a bigger issue. And the great news is that we had that feature built in, you know, before that became a big problem. >>And now you're on the fourth gen, those epic crosses talk of those epic processes. Talk to me a little bit about some of the innovations that are now in fourth gen. >>Yeah, so in fourth gen we actually added, you know, on top of that. So we've, we've got, you know, the sec the, the base of our, our, what we call infinity guard is, is all around the secure boot. The, you know, the, the, the, the secure root of trust that, you know, that we, we work with HPE on the, the strong memory encryption and the S E V, which is the secure encrypted virtualization. And so remember those s s and p, you know, incap capabilities that I talked about earlier. We've actually, in the fourth gen added two x the number of sev v s and P guests for even higher number of confidential VMs to support even more customers than before. Right? We've also added more guest protection from simultaneous multi threading or S M T side channel attacks. And, you know, while it's not officially part of Infinity Guard, we've actually added more APEC acceleration, which greatly benefits the security of those confidential VMs with the larger number of VCPUs, which basically means that you can build larger VMs and still be secured. And then lastly, we actually added even stronger a e s encryption. So we went from 128 bit to 256 bit, which is now military grade encryption on top of that. And, you know, and, and that's really, you know, the de facto crypto cryptography that is used for most of the applications for, you know, customers like the US federal government and, and all, you know, the, is really an essential element for memory security and the H B C applications. And I always say if it's good enough for the US government, it's good enough for you. >>Exactly. Well, it's got to be, talk a little bit about how AMD is doing this together with HPE a little bit about the partnership as we round out our conversation. >>Sure, absolutely. So security is only as strong as the layer below it, right? So, you know, that's why modern security must be built in rather than, than, you know, bolted on or, or, or, you know, added after the fact, right? So HPE and a MD actually developed this layered approach for protecting critical data together, right? Through our leadership and, and security features and innovations, we really deliver a set of hardware based features that, that help decrease potential attack surfaces. With, with that holistic approach that, you know, that safeguards the critical information across system, you know, the, the entire system lifecycle. And we provide the confidence of built-in silicon authentication on the world's most secure industry standard servers. And with a 360 degree approach that brings high availability to critical workloads while helping to defend, you know, against internal and external threats. So things like h hp, root of silicon root of trust with the trusted supply chain, which, you know, obviously AMD's part of that supply chain combined with AMD's Infinity guard technology really helps provide that end-to-end data protection in today's business. >>And that is so critical for businesses in every industry. As you mentioned, the attackers are getting more and more sophisticated, the vulnerabilities are increasing. The ability to have a pa, a partnership like H P E and a MD to deliver that end-to-end data protection is table stakes for businesses. David, thank you so much for joining me on the program, really walking us through what am MD is doing, the the fourth gen epic processors and how you're working together with HPE to really enable security to be successfully accomplished by businesses across industries. We appreciate your insights. >>Well, thank you again for having me, and we appreciate the partnership with hpe. >>Well, you wanna thank you for watching our special program HPE Compute Security. I do have a call to action for you. Go ahead and visit hpe com slash security slash compute. Thanks for watching.

>>The cube presents HPE discover 2022 brought to you by HPE. >>Hi buddy. We're back. This is the Cube's coverage of H P's discover a big discover event this year, 2022 in Las Vegas. We're at the, what used to be called the sands convention center. Now the Venetian Dave Lotte for John furrier per deep Kumar is here. He is the senior vice president and general manager of HPE E's point next services where the rubber meets the road services is where it's at. That's that's where the value is. <laugh> right. >>It's absolutely >>Great to see you again, man. Thanks for coming on. Okay. >>Welcome John. Hopefully y'all are having a good time. >>Yeah, it's very nice to be. It was always great to be face to face. Right? It's nothing like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we, we slog through two years of virtual and >>It was packed in keynote. Antonio's keynote was jam packed overflow rooms. Yeah. Um, and it was a big room. It wasn't a small room. It was huge. So that's a sign. Yeah. >>People are here good times. Yeah. People love to be here. Yeah. So >>What's the update with, with point next >>It's, uh, lot's happening. Lot's happening, right? Uh, the transformation is underpinned by point next doing the right thing and just, uh, transforming and helping customers to transform themselves as well with the pandemic it just caught on. Right. Everybody wants to do things faster, digitize things faster. And uh, we really bring the technology and the expertise. I think that's this pretty crucial, >>You know, what, what are the, how do you think about success rates with transformations on the one hand? It, it kept the industry going all industries going on the other hand, I feel like a lot of the transformations were rushed. I call it the forced March to digital. Yeah. Yeah. What failures did you see in that? Forced March and, and how are companies course correcting? Yeah, >>Really good question. <laugh> Dave, um, more than half of the transformations fail, right? So there was a BCG study done over 3000 customers over three years around the world. And, um, 57% of the transformations failed. Right. In the sense when somebody start to transform, they, they set it out a set of goals, scope it. This is what it is. They either didn't meet the goal or they spent more money than they should have, or they overshot the timing. Right. Or all of this about, so it's a staggering number, uh, a large piece of them fail. Yeah. Right. So, um, to answer your second question, Dave, so what are we finding out? Why are they failing and what are they, how are they course-correcting I think there's sort of, you know, we speak to customers all the time. So we get an idea of, you know, what's working and what's not working and there's sort of three things that keep on coming up. >>Right. One is, uh, senior management, CEO, CIO, commitment to the north star. Yeah. Right. Hey, are we tied in, are we doing this? The second thing is the, um, the alignment between it and the business and the functions. Right. If you don't agree on the goal set, if you don't agree on the timeline, uh, then it just, you know, don't work. <laugh> the third is expertise. The people underestimate the expertise. You need the discipline, you need to get stuff done. Right. And so these are the three and none of them are technology related. Yeah. I mean, you're heard they're all people related stuff. >>Right. But di I want to get your thoughts on this is a really important point. I love that commentary because what we're seeing as well is that with COVID now we're kind of third year post COVID, if you will. Yeah. I was just getting out of COVID. It caught a lot of people flatfooted. So people who were on a digital transformation either got stuck and fell down or failed, or they had a tailwind going into it and had momentum. They had alignment and they were filling gaps. They kind of crossed over at the right point and could succeed during the pandemic. But many people failed. Yeah. Because they didn't prepare, they didn't have the technology. They had too many gaps. They had antiquated old stuff. What have you learned? Because this is now ignited the services business because no one wants to have that happen again. Yeah. Can you share your experiences with that? With the customers that are going through that learning pain? What are their core issues? Some projects got doubled down on some got killed. Hey, we don't need that anymore. So what, what are the learnings? Well, tell, share us your perspective, cuz this is important. >>Yeah. So people want to do transformation, right? Absolutely. Because it's a must with COVID faster, quickly you want to get, but they also have to run the business because otherwise you don't have the EPS to support the transformation. Right. So it's, it's transform and perform. So we call it within HP perform while you transform and people who got that balance right. Created that flywheel, John >>Don't run outta gas in other words, translation. >><laugh> exactly. So second thing is, so you have a set of people, you have expertise and COVID you started losing people. Great resignation. You heard everything. Then you are trying to balance your people between, do you put them on transformation or do you put them on operating this stuff? This is where companies then now are realizing, Hey, if I put my best guys on transformation, I need to make sure this operations work well. So people are coming to us and saying, Hey, could you operate this one? Well, right. I mean, today we had somebody on stage, in low medical. Right. They, um, they got a ransomware hit and they had been using us, um, to do all the operations. And when hit hit, we were like switched on. They're like, I mean, on stage they're like you guys were golden, took care of the situation. So if you didn't have any extra help of some expertise, then you are really suffering. Right? >>Yeah. We heard this too. From partners we heard during the pandemic, a lot of the partners stepped up the channel and ISV partners. Yeah. Because they could. Yeah. And that was another key point. Yeah. It all comes together. I love to perform and transform Dave, cuz this is about running the business. Cuz you have cyber security as a serious problem right now. Yeah. That's also part of the transformation. Yeah. Where's the overlap. What are the areas that you're seeing, where you gotta operate and transform? Where's the hot zone. So to speak with customers, is it cyber? Is it, is it, uh, data, data? >>I would say clearly data is number one, right? In anything. Now data, data modernization is the key. Otherwise you are not changing your company the way you do things. So we just announced four real big stuff, addressing, uh, data migration. Right. Um, one of the problems so people have is quality of data. Quality of data is not good. They exist in silos. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's not in a platform form where you can really take the data, get the insights and use it for your future. Right. I mean that's a key problem, right? Yeah. So you, you hire a few data scientists. They come in, they're doing, they're spending the time on housekeeping data rather than actually doing data science, >>Data engineering, not just wrangling, it's a lot of engineering going on. >>Absolutely. Okay. >>Absolutely. So that's a well known problem. Uh, but as you said before that it's not really a technology problem. I think it's an organizational issue and part of the problem. And I wonder if you're seeing this within your customer base, is this idea that we're gonna try to put everything into some kind of central repository. Yeah. And then we're gonna create a hyper specialized team. That is the goal between the data that you need <laugh> and the insights, right? Yeah. To get the insights. And we're seeing this dispersion of the expertise, which put, putting more responsibility into the line of business, a new data architecture, new organizational thinking. Are you seeing that? Are there particular industries where that's happening more, more quickly where the context which LA is lacking in the centralized team is actually going out to the lines of business where the data quality will be inherently improved. >>Yeah. I think it's like implementing ERP systems. I mean, people who try to create massive data lakes, I don't think it's going to work. Right. Because it's like, nobody has the time to wait for three years until you have structured data in a particular way. The other thing is some of the data companies were take people like that who came in are no more because things are changing at a rapid pace. So anything if you're doing, that's taking too long to get your act together, the market has moved on. You may not be even in that business. So what people are doing Dave is sort of microservices, they're cutting it into pieces and saying, let me get the best, vast, quick, and make it work. And then creating the fly wheel of changing other things that are priority for their. >>So they're getting tactical with their absolutely >>Getting >>Quick wins. Absolutely >>Inviting >>Off smaller. >>Well that's the data. The data thing is, is a cyber problem too. Cuz data is helping cyber, but machine learning feeds off data. Yes. So if you have gaps or blind spots, machine learning isn't as good. So machine learning is only as good in the eye is only as good as the data. Yeah. It can see. Yeah. >>Yeah. >>So that's means it's gotta be fast available, not siloed. So, but you, so this is a balance. What do I silo and protect for compliance. Yeah. And what can I address quickly? Low latency. >>Yeah. If I may add John, the other thing is because there's so many passwords used in the industry. Right. Um, and AIML is one of those, right? So everybody then businesses pick up an area for AI and ML. They do a little pilot, they do a POC and it works well and they're extremely happy <laugh> and then they try to scale it across the whole enterprise. Yeah. And it's a complete failure because most of the time it doesn't work. Right. >>But your data lake comment actually translates over your point there because you can spend, I had a quote on the last event I went to, the quote was we spend all of our time trying to figure out what the latest open source machine learning is. That's a full-time job. So the data lake is heavy lift. Just understand what's going on there. Tracking machine learning yeah. Is a full time job even and changes. >>Absolutely. So >>The change, what does that mean to the customer? That managed services are gonna be part of it? How do the customers tame that moving train that's happening around these really important areas? >>Yeah. So, um, I think, um, customers do need help. So I think they need to be open to ideas of, okay, what is the expertise we need for where we want to get to? And some may be available inside some, they need to go for help outside. I mean, that's a reality, right? So you need to open your eyes and say, I've got, let me put my best people, maybe on transformation. Let me take the people with some expertise, knowledge on different things, right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and shortsighted companies. What they do is John, they just automate what's their current. And that's not a transformation in the end, you look back and say, >>That's incremental. >>You didn't achieve anything. Right. Because you haven't transformed your processes. You haven't chained the theme, you just automated what the garbage and garbage out. It's the, the same crap that comes out. So >>How much of the work that point next does is, um, I'll, I'll say, you know, consultative in terms of be being that change agent. Right? Cause again, we back think about data. Yeah. A lot of it is, is thinking about the organization. Yeah. Decentralizing, you know, making that decision, uh, thinking in different terms, around data products, um, having the lines of business, maybe take more responsibility for, and, and those are internal decisions. Yeah. And they have customers have, certainly have a lot of expertise around, but they sometimes need a change agent. Do you play that role? Is that a, a GSI that plays that role? >>Yeah. So, uh, it's a mixed bag. Uh, we play the role in some places and then, uh, some SIS would also play, play that role. Okay. Um, more of the point next is if, if you take a customer engagement advisory, professional services, then actually maintaining their landscape and then manage services, which again, sort of you monitor, but you also provide some info on how to manage it. Right. In those three pieces, Dave, the top piece and the bottom piece are the big pieces. Customers want expertise on the middle piece is getting automated because systems are getting smarter. They are self-healing. And in the middle piece, what people want is knowledge. So say for example, you have an enterprise it's not working well. They want it knowledge up front, tell me where it's broken or what do we need to do? And that's it. Right. Um, and they want to fix it themselves. It's just like consumer. Right. So, um, that's the way it's working. >>So the reason I ask that is we we're having a data discussion here. Yeah. And, and I think that a big role that you can play in the data transformation is to provide self-service infrastructure. Yes. Uh, right where the, the technical pieces or an operational detail. Absolutely. Okay. And then the, the second is that you just touched on it is, is, is automated, automated governance and security. So that when I share data, I know that it's going to the right place. That individual has the proper access to it. So those are two sort of white spaces I think. And a lot of organizations where they need help big >>Wide spaces >>Actually. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And that, that middle please is a complete cloud experience. Mm-hmm <affirmative> right. Everything is going to be digitalized. Everything's going to be automated. And um, so you know, people can use it any way they want, >>Do you see hybrid as a steady state? I mean, know, we gotta wrap up. We don't a lot of time left. Yeah. The real quick hybrid we've been saying here in the cube, it's it's gonna be a steady state for a long, long >>Time. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it would be, you know, OnPrem off Preem multi-cloud but it's going to be hybrid world >><laugh> all right. Hybrid world. >>Thank you so much. Hybrid >>Cube cube hybrid cube >>Was great to have you on you're so articulate and, and it's just wonderful to see you. Thanks. Thanks. >>Thank you. Thanks Dave. >>Thank you, John. And thank you for watching John furry, Dave Valante, we'll be back with the cubes coverage of HPE. Discover 2022 in Las Vegas. Right after this short break we're live.