>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's The Cube, covering Veritas Vision 2017 brought to you by Veritas. (mid tempo electronic tones) >> Vegas everybody, this is The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We're covering Veritas Vision 2017 at The Aria Hotel. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with Stu Miniman. Eric Kessels is here, he's the CTO for Fairbanks, a partner of Veritas' out of the Netherlands and Carlos Carrero is Senior Principle Product Manager at Veritas and we're going to talk OpenStack. Gentlemen, welcome. >> Thank you. >> We love this topic, I mean five years ago Stu, it was the hottest thing in the planet, OpenStack came out, many people including John Furrier called it a Hail Mary against Amazon, which it kind of was and now the narrative around OpenStack is well, it's kind of, nobody is really doing it, blah, blah, blah. But there are definitely pockets of interest. The developer community is still, you know, passionate about it and service providers are you know, still glomming on to OpenStack. So Carlos, give us the update from Veritas' perspective. What's your interest in OpenStack and your role at Veritas? >> Yeah, so the good thing is what Veritas has been doing with OpenStack and also what Veritas is doing with containers solves emerging problems for emerging technologies and one of the key things is, with our partners Fairbanks, all the things we have been doing to validate the product and to bring the product into market. So for us, Fairbanks is one of the perfect partners because what the value that we bring with that. So they are OpenStack experts and he will go through all the content, you know, what they do, but they really understand about OpenStack. They really identify the issues that customers have with OpenStack and how they collaborate with Veritas to build HyperScale as a product to bring those gaps into a solution and deliver those enterprise class services to customers that-- >> I mean it's the ultimate in true private cloud visions too but Eric, you guys use to be VMware experts and decided to move beyond VMware to OpenStack. What was that journey like? >> Yeah right, so that was about I think five years ago where we did a lot of VMware implementations but we, at some stage we wanted to be a different chapter in the market, so a lot of people knew VMware was more a commodity in the IT so, we started to design a Blue Ocean Strategy for our company and then we went looking in the OpenSource market, which Open Source initiative was feasible for us to move forward with. We're knowledgeable about infrastructure, so then we went into OpenStack and we did a technical validation and we looked on what the attention was is the market. So from that stage we transferred completely our company from being a VMware house to a complete OpenSource company, but it took us a while of course because it was not like a switch of a couple months. I think it took us about three years to make that complete transition from being a VMware shop to being a complete OpenSource company. >> Eric, can you talk to us about your customers? Did they come saying "I want OpenStack" or are they coming saying "You know, I need to digitally transform." What's the conversation you're having with them that leads to your solution and what are your customers doing these days? >> So when we decided for OpenStack, at that stage we had already made a decision that we would move forward for the private cloud decision, so we were not focusing on public cloud initiative for OpenStack. So we think that OpenStack was initially built for private cloud environments. So one thing that we saw is that the VMware login for VMware or for Microsoft was pretty big and customers didn't like that anymore and the costs were pretty high for the VMware licensing. So then we started talking with those customers and say, "Okay hey, there's a different kind of way of running "your workloads in a different kind of environment. "Would you be interested in it if we can "cut the cost 50 percent?" for example. And of course that's always a good trigger to get in contact with our customers and what we see is that our customers are more like enterprise customers. They're not big service providers but just companies like a customer that is running a customer site so that they can do customer, a call center for that, so that's really an enterprise-like company and I just want to add that for them, that they decided to move to OpenStack because they needed to expand their infrastructure with like, with 20 nodes and if they did it with OpenStack, it was one-third of the price in doing that, so. >> So more than 50 percent. So are these cloud service providers predominantly, or? Describe the customers. >> Yeah, we have of course customers that are service providers because they have a huge price pressure on providing virtual machines, so they need to cut costs on their infrastructure and I think that OpenStack is really suitable for that because it's flexible, it is open, you can incorporate your management systems into OpenStack very fairly easily. So for those companies, OpenStack was a really good choice of doing that. And we have also other kind of customers that are, like we have packaging company, so they print the packaging for McDonald's, for example and they have developer departments in their company that want have really fast VMs for developing their own software and if you go by more the traditional route, it takes too long before that all is in place, so they want to have some self-service functionality and that's also what OpenStack can provide, providing self-service for their departments so to make it more easy. >> Carlos, this morning your CEO Bill Coleman said that the future is software defined, multi-cloud and HyperScale. I'm sure you're sitting there, well my product is HyperScale. So maybe, you've launched the product HyperScale at the OpenStack show in Boston. We got to talk with you on The Cube there. Bring us up to speed as to that product and how it fits into really the portfolio of you from Veritas. Especially I'm kind of curious, the multi-cloud world as opposed to this is very specifically and on premises, you know, type offer. >> So we talked in Boston. In Boston we launched the 1.0 version, last week we launched the 1.1 version. We're going to launch the next one together with Red Hat. It is one of the key things we're doing together working with them and as Bill mentioned, you know it's multi-cloud and it's software-defined. So if you understand the architecture for HyperScale, for OpenStack, HyperScale for containers, it's really pure software. So what that means is that it's the hardware of your choice, we don't have any locking. As Eric mentioned there's no locking into any specific platform, that's one of the key things. But also the architecture we're building is the perfect thing for your private cloud because in a multi-cloud environment you still have to have something in house, so that's the private cloud. With all the data management capabilities that we have with Veritas, we can move the data however we want. So typically and that's the challenge you have with OpenStack, you get the locking, you get a closed environment, how do you move the data? We've got things already with net backup where we can just move the data from the data plane, move workloads somewhere else, do the recover and allow customers to just one click and recover that workloads wherever they want. So that's a perfect thing in all, the 360 Data Management that we got with Veritas. >> So what do you hear from customers around the function? I mean obviously we hear about the V-tax. People don't want to pay the VMware tax. But Eric, you're talking about when you started the conversations with your customers, what if you could save 50 percent? You must've had conversations with customers who said "Well, but I like the functionality of VMware. "I like V-Motion, I like the recovery capabilities and "they're doing a good job of adding capabilities and stuff." So where are we, CTO perspective, in terms of the functionality of OpenStack private clouds versus sort of where VMware is. >> That's a good question because the reason that we get in contact with Veritas for this kind of functionality is because the customer will start running work loads on their OpenStack environment and in the beginning, they don't worry about backups. They don't worry about quality of service and then they get into production and then they get problems with performance. They kept, "Hey, I need to have a backup, how do I do it? And oh, we don't have a backup. So these kind of gaps that were really not good resolved in OpenStack and these were the gaps that HyperScale filled in. So then on functional comparison with VMware, we took away those concerns and have a real good comparison on the functional level between OpenStack and VMware. >> I think that it was interesting. Last week we launched in the OpenStack Benelux Days. I had a keynote presenting HyperScale and I was talking about quality of service and backup data protection really, so focused on that, right? After that we had a panel with three customers and the moderator asks the three customers, "What is your biggest challenge now "you've got OpenStack, what do you need?" And the first answer was backup and the moderator said, "What do you mean, there is no backup?" And the answer for 400 people in the room, he said "No, you got Freezer but that's a project." Well now we can get it from Veritas. So that's the thing is that you need to move those workloads, you need data protection and they saw the demo where with one click, you can recover your workloads and the third customer mentioned that it is quality of service and that's a customer that Eric has been working already, they are already working on installing a HyperScale and they need quality of service because they have a workload and running on the cloud and they have to make sure they get the performance that they need for some critical workloads. And again it's a solved problem that again all the work, what we did together with Fairbanks validate and what needs they have is coming all together now. >> Eric, one of the knocks on OpenStack has been I want simplicity and OpenStack, it's got all these pieces, how do I put it together? Oh it's all software, wait backup, I didn't even think of that. How does Fairbanks help? What does kind of your stack look like and how much is it you can just roll this out and how much is it The customers actually? Some customers like that flexibility. Service providers, oh I've got my management layer and things like that. What's kind of the typical environment? And give us some of the variables. >> So based on of course the journey that we made and of course there were a good projects and bad projects, that's the learning curve that we also needed to do but we managed to build a best practice for OpenStack, so we now can do an implementation of OpenStack in less than two weeks because we know the components, we know what you should do and what you don't have to do and so we have a good starting point about an environment where you have 11 nodes in total as a good starting point for having a production environment for OpenStack and then with HyperScale included, then you need two add to data nodes additionally because then it's necessary for the copy that you need to have. But a 10 or 11 node configuration is from our perspective a very good starting point where you start with different customers with different sizes of course. >> Do you deploy the OpenStack distribution? Does the customer have preference on that? I know Veritas has a couple of options, so. >> So we have a preference for a canonical distribution because it's very open. I think the good thing from canonical is that the function set that they provide as an OpenSource product is exactly the same if you want to add that with the managed service from canonical to it and I think that the real cool thing about canonical is their way of deploying OpenStack because it leverages a really consistent way of deploying OpenStack. So for us it's very important that when we deploy OpenStack, that the result is the same on every customer's side and that's what the tools from Canonical provide us with. >> So I want to ask you about what you just said about you could do an OpenStack deployment in two weeks. I can hear some cloud guy going, "Oh I'll just go to Amazon and speed it up." So I wonder if you could address that and as well, how does that compare for instance to a VMware installation of a deployment of a private cloud? Those two examples. >> I think that when you look at the private cloud from VMware, I think for the installation it takes about the same time I think. But that's all about the knowledgeability of the partner that's doing the installation. Because that's the journey that we had so they can do the implementation fast and that they can rely on that environment because as you know in OpenStack, in the beginning there was a little bit of doubt about if it was production ready or not. And to take that away, it must be a solid implementation and that they can rely on that and then they can make sure that they can put their really important workloads also on top of OpenStack instead of making a decision, yeah, should I run it on that or not? >> So from your standpoint, it's parity in terms of just deployment ease and functionality, we could debate that all day long. What about the public cloud example? How do you respond to somebody who says "Oh, we'll just spin it up in AWS or Azure." >> Yeah, I think the public cloud is still a good thing. It's not a bad thing to have public cloud because I think in most companies you have a hybrid cloud environment, so you will have firmware and maybe you have a public cloud and a private cloud in one company. But it all depends a little bit on the type of workloads that you're going to run inside of that environment. So I think there are workloads that you should, that you can't run on a public cloud. >> Eric, does Fairbanks get involved with how they manage that, you know, kind of hybrid or multi-cloud environment? We know Carlos wants to jump in with the Veritas answer. >> Yeah, we get the question a lot of course because we know the infrastructure, how it works and as you probably know, there are a lot of cloud orchestration products in the market that can do the multi-cloud management. But to be honest, at this moment there is not one real good product that handles all the clouds correctly and managing all the bits and pieces that you need to have for an infrastructure. So, we're still looking on that to find the one that can do that. >> Yeah, what's on your wish list? What are you looking for from the ecosystem? >> I think it's really good to have, that there is no difference anymore about the type of workloads that you can run on different kind of environments. So that you choose based on functionality, what you are going to run on that. Now you see there's a lot about a focus on virtual machines but actually it all goes about the application because that's the, on the end that's something what needs to be run on that environment and having that manageability to manage the application. I think that's more important than managing the infrastructure underneath it. >> How about jumping in with the multi-cloud commentary? >> Well I think it's the customer's choice and what we do as a company is being able to give them the choice is that we don't care and that's in our DNA really. With that in the past as Mike Farmer explained today is that we didn't care about two apparatuses at the beginning, now we don't care if you are using OpenStack containers and what you want to run those. So that is the way we're building products nowadays with Veritas is that user choice. So we don't care about that anymore. >> All right Carlos, Eric, thanks very much for coming to The Cube, appreciate it. >> Thank you >> All right, you're welcome. >> Okay, keep it right there. My buddy Stu and I will be back with our next guest. We're live from Veritas Vision. Hashtag VtasVision. This is The Cube, be right back. (mid tempo electronic tones)

>> live from the Mandalay Bay Convention Center in Las Vegas. It's the king covering via World 2016 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem sponsors. Now here's your host stool minimum, >> including I Welcome back to the Q bomb stew. Minuteman here with my co host for this segment, Mark Farley, and we'll get the emerald 2016 here in Las Vegas. It's been five years since we've been in Vegas, and a lot of changes in five years back Elsa do this morning was talking about five years from now. They expect that to be kind of a crossover between public Cloud becomes majority from our research. We think that flash, you know, capacities. You know, you really are outstripping, You know, traditional hard disk drives within five years from now. So the two guests I have for this program, Brian Vials, is the CEO of Day Tree. Um, it's been a year since we had you on when you came out of stealth on really excited cause your customer along. We love having customers on down from Alaska, you know, within sight view of of of Russia. Maybe on Did you know Ben Craig, who's the c i O of Northern Bank. Thank you so much for coming. All right, so we want to talk a lot to you, but real quick. Ryan, why do you give us kind of the update on the company? What's happened in the last year where you are with the product in customer deployments? >> Sure. Last year, when we talked, daydream was just coming out of stealth mode. So we were introducing the notion of what we're doing. Starting in kind of mid Q. One of this year, we started shipping and deploying. Thankfully, one of our first customers was Ben. And, uh, you know, our our model of, ah, sort of convergence is different from anything else that you'll see a v m world. I think hearing Ben tell about his experience in deployment philosophy. What changed for him is probably the best way to understand what we do. >> All right, so and great leading. Start with first. Can you tell us a little bit about north from bank? How many locations you have your role there. How long you've been there? Kind of a quick synopsis. >> Sure. Where we're growing. Bank one of three publicly traded publicly held companies in the state of Alaska. We recently acquired residential mortgage after acquiring the last Pacific Bank. And so we have locations all the way from Fairbanks, Alaska, where it gets down to negative 50 negative, 60 below Fahrenheit down to Bellevue, Washington. And to be perfectly candid, what's helped propel some of that growth has been our virtual infrastructure and our virtual desktop infrastructure, which is predicated on us being able to grow our storage, which kind of ties directly into what we've got going on with a tree and >> that that that's great. Can you talk to you know what we're using before what led you to day tree? Um, you know, going with the startup is you know, it's a little risky, right? I thought, Cee Io's you buy on risk >> Well, and as a very conservative bank that serves a commercial market, risk is not something that way by into a lot. But it's also what propels some of our best customers to grow with us. And in this case, way had a lot of faith in the people that joined the company. From an early start, I personally knew a lot of the team from sales from engineering from leadership on That got us interested. Once we kind of got the hook way learned about the technology and found out that it was really the I dare say we're unicorn of storage that we've been looking for. And the reason is because way came from a ray based systems and we have the same revolution that a lot of customers did. We started out with a nice, cosy, equal logic system. We evolved into a nimble solution the hybrid era, if you will, of a raise. And we found that as we grew, we ran into scalability problems. A soon as we started tackling beady eye, we found that we immediately needed to segregate our workloads. Obviously, because servers and production beauty, I have a completely different read right profile. As we started looking at some of the limitations as we grew our video structure, we had to consider upgrading all our processors, all of our solid state drives, all of the things that helped make that hybrid array support our VD infrastructure, and it's costly. And so we did that once and then we grew again because maybe I was so darn popular. within our organization. At that time, we kind of caught wind of what was going on with the atrium, and it totally turned the paradigm on top of its head for what we were looking for. >> How did it? Well, I just heard that up, sir. How did the date Reum solution impact the or what did you talk about? The reed, Right balance? What was it about the day trim solution that solved what was the reed right? Balance you there for the >> young when we ran out of capacity with our equal logic, we had to go out and buy a whole new member when he ran out of capacity with are nimble, had to go out and buy a whole new controller. When we run out of capacity with day tree, um, solution, we literally could go out and get commoditized solid state drives one more into our local storage and end up literally impacting our performance by a magnifier. That's huge. So the big difference between day trim and these >> are >> my words I'm probably gonna screw this up, Bryant, So feel free to jump in, and in my opinion day trip starts out with a really good storage area network appliance, and then they basically take away all of you. I interface to it and stick it out on the network for durable rights. Then they move all of the logic, all of the compression, all of the D duplication. Even the raid calculations on to software that I call a hyper driver that runs the hyper visor level on each host. So instead of being bound by the controller doing all the heavy lifting, you now have it being done by a few extra processors, a few extra big of memory out on their servers. That puts the data as close as humanly possible, which is what hyper converging. But it also has this very durable back end that ensures that your rights are protected. So instead of having to span my storage across all of my hosts, I still have all the best parts of a durable sand on all the best parts of high performance. By bringing that that data closer to where the host. So that's why Atrium enabled us to be able to grow our VD I infrastructure literally overnight. Whenever we ran out of performance, we just pop in another drive and go and the performances is insane. We just finished writing a 72 page white paper for VM, where we did our own benchmarking. Um, using my OMETER sprayers could be using our secondary data center Resource is because they were, frankly, somewhat stagnant, and we knew that we'd be able to get with most level test impossible. And we found that we were getting insane amounts of performance, insane amounts of compression. And by that I can quantify we're getting 132,000 I ops at a little bit over a gig a sec running with two 0.94 milliseconds of late and see that's huge. And one of the things that we always used to compare when it came to performance was I ops and throughput. Whenever we talk to any storage vendor, they're always comparing. But we never talked about lately because Leighton See was really network bound and their storage bender could do anything about that. But by bringing the the brain's closer to the hosts, it solves that problem. And so now our latent C that was like a 25 minutes seconds using a completely unused, nimble storage sand was 2.94 milliseconds. What that translated into was about re X performance increase. So when we went from equal logic to nimble, we saw a multiplier. There we went from nimble toed D atrium. We saw three Export Supplier, and that translated directly into me being able to send our night processors home earlier. Which means less FT. Larger maintenance window times, faster performance for all of our branches. So it went on for a little bit there. But that's what daydreams done for us, >> right? And just to just to amplify that part of the the approached atrium Staking is to assume that host memory of some kind or another flash for now is going to become so big and so cheap that reads will just never leave the host at some point. And we're trying to make that point today. So we've increased our host density, for example, since last year, flash to 16 terabytes per host. Raw within line di Dupin compression. That could be 50 a 100 terabytes. So we have customers doing fairly big data warehouse operations where the reeds never leave the host. It's all host Flash Leighton see and they can go from an eight hour job to, ah, one hour job. It's, you know, and in our model, we sell a system that includes a protected repositories where the rights go. That's on a 10 big network. You buy hosts that have flash that you provisions from your server vendor? Um, we don't charge extra for the software that we load on the host. That does all the heavy lifting. It does the raid compression d do cloning. What have you It does all the local cashing. So we encourage people to put as much flash and as many hosts as possible against that repositories, and we make it financially attractive to do that. >> So how is the storage provisioned? Is it a They're not ones. How? >> So It all shows up, and this is one of the other big parts that is awesome for us. It shows up his one gigantic NFS datastore. Now it doesn't actually use NFS. Itjust presents that way to be anywhere. But previously we had about 34 different volumes. And like everybody else on the planet who thin provisions, we had to leave a buffer zone because we'd have developers that would put a bm where snapshot on something patches. Then forget about it, Philip. The volume bring the volume off lying panic ensues. So you imagine that 30 to 40% of buffer space times each one of those different volumes. Now we have one gigantic volume and each VM has its performance and all of its protection managed individually at the bm level. And that's huge because no longer do you have to set protection performance of the volume level. You can set it right in the B m. Um, >> so you don't even see storage. >> You don't ever have to log into the appliance that all you >> do serve earless storage lists. Rather, this is what we're having. It's >> all through the place. >> And because because all the rights go off, host the rights, don't interrupt each other the host on interrupt together. So we actually going to a lot of links to make sure that happens. So there's an isolation host, a host. That means if you want a provisional particular host for a particular set of demands, you can you could have VD I next door to data warehouse and you know the level of intensity doesn't matter to each other. So it's very specifically enforceable by host configuration or by managing the VM itself. Justus, you would do with the M where >> it gets a lot more flexibility than we would typically get with a hyper converge solution that has a very static growth and performance requirements. >> So when you talk about hyper convergence, the you know, number one, number two and number three things that we usually talk about is, you know, simplicity. So you're a pretty technical guy. You obviously understand this. Well, can you speak to beyond the, you know, kind of ecological nimble and how you scale that house kind of the day's your experience. How's the ongoing, how much you after, you know, test and tweak and adjust things? And how much is it? Just work? >> Well, this is one of the reasons that we went with the atrium is well, you know, when it comes down to it with a hyper converge solution, you're spanning all of your storage across your host, right? We're trying to make use of those. Resource is, but we just recently had one of our server's down because it had a problem with his bios for a little over 10 days. Troubleshooting it. It just doesn't want to stay up. If we're in a full hyper converged infrastructure and that was part of the cluster, that means that our data would've had to been migrated off of that hostess. Well, which is kind of a big deal. I love the idea of having a rock solid, purpose built, highly available device that make sure that my rights are there for me, but allows me to have the elastic configuration that I need on my host to be able to grow them as I see fit. And also to be able to work directly with my vendors to get the pricing points that I need for each. My resource is so our Oracle Servers Exchange Server sequel servers. We could put in some envy Emmy drives. It'll screen like a scalded dog, and for all of our file print servers, I t monitoring servers. We can go with Cem Samsung 8 50 e b o. Drives pop him in a couple of empty days, and we're still able to crank out the number of I ops that we need to be able. Thio appreciate between those at a very low cost point, but with a maximum amount of protection on that data. So that was a big song. Points >> are using both envy. Emmy and Block. >> We actually going through a server? Refresh. Right now, it's all part of the white paper that way. Just felt we decided to go with Internal in Vienna drives to start with two two terabyte internal PC cards. And then we have 2.5 inch in Vienna ready on the front load. But we also plumbed it to be able to use solid state drive so that we have that flexibility in the future to be able to use those servers as we see fit. So again, very elastic architecture and allows us to be kind of a control of what performance is assigned to each individual host. >> So what APS beyond VD? I Do you expect to use this for? Are you already deploying it further? >> VD I is our biggest consumer of resource is our users have come to expect that instant access to all of their applications eventually way have the ability to move the entire data center onto the day trim and so One of the things that we're currently completing this year is the rollout of beady eye to the remaining 40% of our branches. 60% of them are already running through the eye. And then after that, we're probably gonna end up taking our core servers and migrating them off and kind of through attrition, using some of our older array based technology for testing death. All >> right, so I can't let you go without asking you a bit. Just you're in a relationship with GM Ware House Veum. We're meeting your needs. Is there anything from GM wear or the storage ecosystem around them that would kind of make your job easier? >> Yes. If they got rid of the the Sphere Web client, that would be great. I am not a fan of the V Sphere Web client at all, and I wish they'd bring back the C Sharp client like to get that on the record because I tried to every single chance I could get. No, the truth is the integration between the day tree, um and being where is it's super tight. It's something I don't have to think about. It makes it easy for me to be able to do my job at the end of the day. That's what we're looking for. So I think the biggest focus that a lot of the constituents that air the Anchorage being where user group leader of said group are looking for stability and product releases and trying to make sure that there's more attention given to que es on some of the recent updates that they have. Hyper visor Weber >> Brian, I'll give you the final word takeaways that you want people to know about your company, your customers coming out. >> Of'em World. We're thrilled to be here for the second year, thrilled to be here with Ben. It's a It's a great, you know, exciting period for us. As a vendor, we're just moving into sort of nationwide deployment. So check us out of here at the show. If you're not, check us out on the Web. There's a lot of exciting things happening in convergence in general and atriums leading the way in a couple of interesting ways. All >> right, Brian and Ben, thank you so much for joining us. You know, I don't think we've done a cube segment in Alaska yet. so maybe we'll have to talk to you off camera about that. Recommended. All right. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from the emerald 2016. Thanks for watching the Cube. >> You're good at this. >> Oh, you're good.