(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Austin, Texas, it's the Cube, covering Kubecon and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Linux Foundation, and the Cube's Ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to the Cube's exclusive coverage live in Austin, Texas here for the three day CloudNative and now two days of KubeCon, Kubernetes conference. We had the second annual conference celebrating the evolution and growth of Kubernetes. I'm John Furrier, my cohost Stu Miniman and next guest Steve Watt, Chief Architect of Emerging Technologies at Red Hat, welcome back to the Cube. Good to see you. >> Thanks for having me, always a pleasure. >> So Red Hat making some good bets, some Kubernetes, not a bad call. >> No, Kubernetes has done wonders for our openship business, absolutely. (laughter) >> So how is this all playing out? We were just talking before we came on camera here about the just the pace of change. You been at Red Hat five years. We interviewed you when you were at HB during the big day to days, boy the world has certainly grown and changed. What has changed in your mind the most the people need to understand? >> I think Kubernetes has been a single biggest driving force to shift all enterprising architecture from scale up to scale out and I think that has just created a whole number of ripple effects across how applications are designed within the enterprise. >> I think that's the big one. >> Yeah. >> So Steve, that whole shift from scale up to scale out has affected lots of parts of the stack, but storage is something you've been working on, something we've been keeping a close eye on and was one of the top items we wanted to kind of dig into this week. Maybe, bring us inside a little bit, what's happening, what's Red Hat's role? >> Sure. >> Help explain. >> Absolutely, one of my favorite topics. It's kind of counterintuitive. I work in a CT office, I run the emerging technologies team, which is sort of the team that does the experiments that help shape and inform our long term strategy. And so you might think, well storage is kind of old news, how does that fit into this CloudNative world? Why does Red Hat care about it so much for their platform? And I think if you look at the CloudNative stack today, you have GKE, the new Amazon Kubernetes service, Azure, et cetera, these are all places where you can run your Kubernetes app, but just in that one place. Red Hat's platform perspective's a little different. We want you to be able to run your platform in an open hybrid cloud, whether that's in Google, in Azure or on premise, on OpenStack or on Bare Metal So you want to be able to run everywhere, but what's the biggest problem to achieving that application portability? It's data locking, so storage becomes cool again. (laughter) We got to solve this problem. >> Because you got to store the data somewhere. >> Steve: Right. >> And that's in the storage devices. >> Right, exactly. >> In the new way, the architecture. >> The new architecture, right? So the problem is, you've got to be very careful that if you want to move, ever you should think upfront about your persistence platform, so that it gives you the freedom to be able to move around. So Red Hat is investing heavily in trying to solve this problem. We've got a few exploratory prototypes that we're actually showing at this conference. And we work in both Kubernetes, building out the storage sub-system there, but also sort of in our products for like container native storage. >> Steve walk us through a little bit because we've been talking about this in the Docker Ecosystem for a bunch of years, where are we, what's being worked on? What still needs to be kind of sorted out? >> So, yeah that's interesting, I think we're finally over the hump where everybody's asking, Who's solving the persistence problem for containers? It used to drive me crazy, that went on for about three years. I think people finally realize, there are solutions. Kubernetes has always had them actually. And so, we've got past sort of the day one, like being able to, dynamically provision. Kind of like you'd see with Cinder in OpenStack. We've got a great storage. we've got a vibrant huge storage ecosystem and at our Kubernetes face to face meetings we have 50 people, they're like a mini conference. So we've got broad engagement from the entire storage ecosystem and that's doing everything that you need sort of on the file level, but there is recent (mumbles) work that we've done in Kubernetes for Service Broker is now the pattern to sort of provision object storage if you need it and most importantly, we've just enabled lock storage in Kubernetes in the 1.9 release that ships this week. And that is really interesting because it opens up the potential to run virtualization with loads on Kubernetes. >> Where's the action for the projects with storage? I heard some hallway rumbles just when I was, the Rook project. >> Steve: Yeah. >> Is that something, what projects, if I'm interested in storage, where do I dive in? Where's the most action for moving the needle for tuning the innovation around storage. >> I think it's if you're a storage vendor it's different if you're a storage consumer so Rook is a project that's focused on providing a sort of an abstraction for software defined storage platforms to run inside Kubernetes. Cluster doesn't take that approach, we've used sort of more of the pure Kubernetes approach. Sort of get to the same place. But Rook is definitely an interesting project in that, it's sort of an inception level project phase. Then for people that are wanting to consume storage, I think Kubernetes is the king of the pack. I obviously have a strong opinion on it, amongst the other container orchestrators, but the amount of investment in allowing people to do more continually more sophisticated features, you know snapshot's in, you know cloning, things like that. And obviously, I'm sure you've heard a little bit about container storage interface. >> Yes. >> CSI, and that makes it a lot easier for storage vendors to build one adapter that works across, Decos, Cloud foundry, Kubernetes, et cetera. >> What's the biggest surprise here for you, because we've been looking trying to read the tea leaves. Obviously Kubernetes, clear the runway, good standardization seeing some commoditization, great adoption, although people can tailor it. A lot of different versions, still early. >> Steve: Yeah. >> We're only two years old conference. >> I know. >> Three years it's been around. What's surprising you right now? What's jumping out at you? >> I think Amazon's announcement yesterday was very interesting. I think the fact that it's heartening to see that there's pure Kubernetes as a service being offered in Azure, Google and Amazon. And I think that quite interesting for affordability standpoint, right. And so I think to me that was a big surprise. Amazon doesn't usually go the pure vanilla open source approach and also the statements they're going to contribute back to Kubernetes, I think is quite interesting as well. So to me that's the one thing that stood out. >> What's going on for the future too? You mentioned you've got to set the roadmap. You guys have an agenda there obviously of installed base. >> Steve: Yeah. >> Now you've got OpenShift doing really well. What are you guys looking at? What's on your radar, how do you see this thing unfolding? What's in your mind? >> Yeah, I think there's a couple of really interesting things. Container orchestration is a legitimate disruption to virtualization. And that it solves the same problem opportunity space but in a fundamentally different manner that reshapes the market. I think the Kubert project is something that we're working on at Red Hat. It's another one of our sort of emerging technology focus areas. And when we enable block storage and it enables virtualization, what it gives us the opportunity to do in Kubernetes is have a single deployed platform that can serve both later adopters and early adopters. So the early adopters with pure container orchestration, but if you're wanting to have the same platform and do virtualization too on it, you can have sort of one investment, one shared experience to be able to do all of those. I think that's pretty cool. (laughter) >> Steve, talk about the customers that are watching or will be hearing over the next few months and a year around how to architectually package this and think about it in their mind. Whether it's a mental model or specifics. 'Cause there's always going to be that time tested trade off between performance, security and so you have, obviously people have VM's, not going away, but containerization where Google say, hey, we don't really care about VM's, we're a container company. There's always still going to be trade offs. >> Steve: Yeah. >> Speed, security. >> Steve: Security. >> So security factors in there. How should a practitioner think about getting their arms around this? >> I think this is the tact that OpenShift takes which is that Kubernetes is a decent project. Despite the huge amount of interest and contributions that we have and its maturity curve as far as, there are different things at attention, like enterprise use cases, versus public cloud use cases. And so we're very focused on our enterprise use cases and sort of enabling that inside OpenShift and bringing OpenShift up as a platform back to sort of enterprise level that our customers would expect. Virtualization platforms are much further down the maturity curve, and so I think that's sort of our approach is that, where that tries to meet our customers where they are. Some organizations have teams that are more advanced. Some that are less advanced. And so we try to offer, you know if you want to go virtualization we've got OpenStack, we've got Rev. If you want you could use this new school Kubernetes based container orchestration and you got teams understand it. (laughter) And you corrupt microservices then we've got a solution for that. >> Well you know that whole theme here is infrastructures is boring storage. It used to be called snorage back in the day. >> Steve: Yeah. >> It's pretty boring but relevant. Most people look at like Lambda from Amazon and some other serverless trends and certainly see them here with ServiceMesh and what not, the abstraction way of infrastructure, it's almost eliminating storage in the mind of the developer, yet it's changing, how are you guys specifically riding that wave? Because one, it's good for developers. >> Steve: Right. >> The velocity of developers increases, but the role of storage is changing. You mention block, people are like, oh block-- >> Yeah. >> It's dead. I mean storage has been dead for like 20 years now? >> Steve: Yeah. >> It keeps growing and growing, but now the role changes to the developer, abstracted away and also more important for automation and some of the dev ops things. What specifically are you guys doing? >> So, I think you said the word role. That's really important right? Like to an application developer what you said is absolutely true, they want to use persistence platforms for storing their data in a cloud native way, okay. However, the maturity code is also important. Not every application developer team is fully microservice based and understands all these architectural patterns. It's a journey, right? So we want to basically give them multiple options along their journey. So that's the one around the application persistence. So if they used to like file storage or object storage, et cetera, like we have our container native storage platform provides that for them from the application persistence level, but from an OpenShift standpoint, an OpenShift is our new platform. It's based on real but it's our new platform, our new service area to build applications and most notably, infrastructure services on. So just like with (mumbles) where we have, we created the opportunity to have a fertile ecosystem around it, we're doing the same with OpenShift, which means that we've got to enable the companies that are providing those persistence platforms. Those message cues, those NoSQL databases, to run on OpenShift. You want to run Cassandra on OpenShift on premise? What do you need underneath the Cassandra? Block storage, direct attached block storage, which we're building in Kubernetes 1.10. >> Steve, any patterns you're seeing between the customers that are being able to embrace really the kind of this new cloud data world versus those that are having challenges? Any advice you can give based on customer interactions and what you're seeing. >> That's a good question. I think, I just have to fall back on the fact that culture is a hard thing to change. It takes a long time. Institutions are persistent and so I think that for what we sort of say to our customers, our guidance on these topics is that, what we try and give you is choice. Depending on where you are on the journey, slowly move our customers through that journey and try to give them a variety of different choices on that. I think personally like with any new disruption, it usually has like 10 x value. Like the one benefit of containers over to machines is you don't have to bring the operating system along every time you create a new container, right? You can much more densely pack a server with containers with virtual machines. Get more resource utilization, but it takes a long time for an application development team to like fully get there. And so, that's the thing I think, is you just got to be judicious about like the right tool at the right time. >> Yeah, the other thing related to that is the pace of change. >> Steve: Yeah. >> I've talked to some of the people that created Kubernetes, the people who are running all this and they're like, I can't keep up with all these projects. What are you finding internally in Red Hat, as well as from your customers? >> Yeah, I think that it's absolutely true. I was just remarking on that a minute ago it's, you know I'm walking around. I hear this great quote, like why do you come to conferences? Do you come to conferences to learn or do you come to conferences to learn about what you need to learn? (laughter) >> Yeah. >> And it's the latter for me, right. And the ecosystem, the CloudNative ecosystem is exploding. And so I think what we try to do at Red Hat is, especially our team. Our goal in Emerging Technologies is to look 18 months down the road and pick the winners. Like community vitality standpoint, but also like the right technology. And there's this plethora of choices that we need to wave through and what we tend to do is distill that down into our platform that's something our customers can rely on. And that's reliable and we've picked the right project, but it's a big challenge. Like there's so much happening and even in storage it's becoming challenging. >> Steve Watt the Chief Architect of Emerging Engineering at Red Hat thanks for coming on the Cube, appreciate your perspective. It's an architectural game right now. A lot of people putting these new architectures together. It's cultural change. Congratulations on your success with OpenShift and everything else. >> Steve: Yeah, thank you very much. >> Alright, and more coverage here on the Cube after this short break. >> Steve: Thanks. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From the SiliconANGLE Media Office, in Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE. (upbeat music) >> Hi everyone, I'm Sam Kahane with senior WIKIBon analyst, Stu Miniman and you're watching theCUBE. In 10 minutes or less, we're going to teach you everything you need to know about DockerCon 2017. Here's the agenda, we're going to start with the basics, what is DockerCon and why you should care. Then we're going to discuss the maturity of the container ecosystem. After that, we're going to talk about Docker as a business. And then we're going to finish by talking about the users, and what they should look for at the show. So real excited to have Stu Miniman with me, he is our DockerCon expert. Stu, how many years have you been at the show? >> So Sam, it's the fourth year of DockerCon. It will be my third show, also the third year we've had theCUBE. I was at the first one in 2014. Super exciting show. Everybody got all hyped up for a couple of years, we just Docker, Docker, Docker everything. And then from the second year on, we've done the North American show. Maybe we'll do the Copenhagen show later this year because Docker will be back in Europe. But super exciting, going to do two full days of live coverage from Austin, Texas and you'll be joining us. >> I will be, and who will you be hosting with? >> So John Furrier will be there. John and I host a lot of the open source shows. John's known DockerCon since that first 2014. It was actually at a Red Hat Summit, we interviewed Solomon Hykes, who's the founder of Docker, the company. And so much history we can't get through all of it in the, under 10 minutes, but super excited for the container ecosystem, everything that's going on. It's still been a bubbling and exciting area. >> So you've seen this show grow. Let's talk a little bit about the maturity of the Docker Ecosystem. >> Yeah so, as you said, there's so much history here Sam, there's the little D, Docker, which is the open-source project itself. And big D, the company. So let's talk about containers in the ecosystem. So while Docker didn't create containers, Docker is the company that really has democratized it for the world. So reminds me a lot of VMware. So VMware didn't come up with the idea for virtual machines, which actually goes back to the mainframe era. But they helped bring it into the PC world. And in the same way, Docker is really taking this container format which had existed in a couple of other operating systems and it takes that Linux container which is how we look at bundling things really at the application layer, making it really simple, usually ties into, a lot of people talking about how microservices fits into it. A lot of these new frameworks are leveraging containers. So containers are maturing. And some of the problems that we've had in the past with infrastructure, how does it work with infrastructure? How does things like storage and networking work? The community in the container world have been knocking those down. And Docker, the company has also been knocking those down. So containers are definitely maturing, it's definitely something that in many ways we've gone through the peak of hype, through a little bit of the trough of disillusionment, if you follow the normal hype curve. And today, containers are being used in a lot of ways, we still want to see is how many companies are actually fully using containers in production environments. Is it all stateless storage? Is there stateful storage? There's lots of start-ups, lots of big companies, everything from, heck, Microsoft just bought a big company, Deis. Which if you look them up, oh, it's in the container ecosystem. We'll talk about the competitive piece at the end. Every cloud today is talking about containers in there. So, containers are here to stay, they're an underlying foundational piece of what's happening kind of in the infrastructure and application world. And so, DockerCon, is really the center place for a lot of us to gather and talk about that. >> Great, so this is Docker show. How is Docker doing as a business? >> It's interesting, we had a couple of, it's been some struggles over the last couple of years as to, reseparating containers and Docker the open source, versus Docker the company. Last year, there was a little bit of air sucked out of the ecosystem when Docker said, oh well we have this way to manage lots of containers called Docker Swarm. Docker Swarm's great, it's pretty simple, it works well. But when Docker said, when you buy our solution, it comes bundled with it. Also, people were saying, well, I might prefer to use Mesos, I might want to do Kubernetes. We've covered Kubernetes, really cool stuff, with CubeCon show that we've done, itself. So Docker's like, well, the old term was batteries are included but swappable. But the community kind of bristled at a lot of that. What I like is that Docker has done some repackaging. They now have two flavors that you can get of the Docker solution. There's Docker CE, which is the community edition, which is the free open source. Releases are coming like every six weeks, that could be tough for a lot of people. And how much? Do I just take it and use it? So Docker understands that they want to bring this to the enterprise, so they created the EE, or enterprise edition, which has release cycles that fits with the enterprise more. It has really the service and support that you kind of expect there. It reminds me lot of anybody that's been in this space. You look at what happened in the Linux world, you look at what happened with VMware, and their maturation over time. And we see Docker kind of moving in that general direction, but it still remains to be seen. We go to the show, last year, Docker Swarm, some people got frustrated as to what Docker put together. What will Docker announce this year? Will they take on a piece of the ecosystem where people are taking dollars? Or where are the dollars and how the customer consume, are some of the big questions that we look at. >> What are the competitive dynamics here? >> Yeah, so Sam, I mentioned containers are fitting in everywhere. Every note that I get from cloud players here, it's kind of assumed that there's containers underneath. When you go to Amazon show, Google show, Microsoft show, containers are there and Docker is in a big way. Most of the cloud services that are put together, have Docker, there's great partnership. Docker with Amazon. Microsoft actually created containers for Microsoft. People were like, oh my god. I looked at it and said, this is probably going to take three years. Microsoft moved faster than I ever thought they would, to be able to make, I can have Linux containers, and I can have the Windows containers, and I can actually manage them together. They're not swappable, they're still two different formats but Docker supports, has support and has worked on both of those. It was amazing to see. Google is greatly involved in containers and Docker's there. And of course, I can do on-prem solutions also. Competitively, the big question is, who makes money? Because all of these cloud players, whether you're IBM, Amazon, there's pieces of the pie that they're going to take. So where can Docker actually get a footprint, that big D Docker? Because there's lots of companies that I talk to that say, oh yeah, we're using containers and I use the Docker format. But maybe I'm only using the registry from Docker. Or, oh wait, IBM has a registry, Microsoft does registries, everybody has that. Where am I actually coming to Docker, the company? And I think as we see kind of that CE and EE that I mentioned earlier, play out, Docker does have an opportunity there, but it's an interesting competitive dynamic. There's always that given push from the ecosystem as to Docker built a big ecosystem and did they eat parts of it? AHLA, Intel in the past, even VMware has done some of that. Or can they live amongst that and make a good living because they're UNICORE? I think they were over a billion dollar in valuation when they had less than 10 million dollars in revenue, which is just one of those astronomical Valley things that you look at. But containers are all over the globe, huge adoption of the project itself. And it's going to be great next week to get the pulse from everybody as to where they are, where they're winning, and what customers are doing really cool things with that they couldn't do before they had containers in general and Docker specifically. >> Yeah, so speaking of the show, it's going to be the biggest DockerCon to date, I'm very excited for that. The users and the community that's at the event, what should they look for? >> Yeah so, the first thing is, let's look to our peers. What customers are going to get on stage? Are these, one from the Valley? Or kind of the web 2.0 companies, that you're like, oh yeah, that's interesting but people want to see the financial services companies. People want to see retail companies. Where are they using containers? Were they using it in production? What kind of use cases are they doing? How have they rewritten, changed their businesses to take advantage of this? Because the business can only move as fast as their applications are, and Docker is one of those things that can really help accelerate that pace of change and move people along. Hearing from users, hearing from that update, hearing that Docker is doing well, understand what their future is, understand where they fit into the ecosystem, I think is one things that we want to kind of take away from that show. >> Right. And if you're not at the show, you can watch theCUBE. So we'll be broadcasting on Tuesday and Wednesday. We have some great guests coming on from Cisco, Canonical, Red Hat, Scality, Logz.io, AppLariat, even more companies. Any interviews you're really excited for? >> Yeah so, first of all, some of the Docker executives, we get Solomon Hykes on. Is Solomon the benevolent dictator of the Docker community? You know, or he's the founder of Docker, so he's great. Ben is the CEO of the company. Jerry Chen, is the one who invested in it. And as you mentioned, we've got a bunch of the vendor ecosystem. Big thanks to our sponsors that allow us to broadcast from that show. Hoping to have a few users on. We always get in some of the keynote people, some of the other guests. Any practitioners that are out there, that are willing to tell their story, we always appreciate when they can reach out and talk to us. >> Great Stu, thank you so much. That's all the time we have today. Watch us next week, Tuesday and Wednesday, full days of coverage from DockerCon. And come by theCUBE on Wednesday, we're going to have Franklin Barbecue at 1:00 p.m. (upbeat music)

>> Problem you solved. >> Sure, John, it's great to be here and Aviatrix is a cloud-native networking software company. And we help enterprises scale their private networks into the public cloud. And that's a really a hard challenge that people are struggling with. Everyone has a cloud strategy. And so our software lets you have simplified scalability, connectivity for any type of architecture, whether it be hybrid or otherwise, as well as end-to-end network security. >> And so what's the core problem that you solve? I mean, is it networking? Is it? >> Sherry: Yeah. >> Sherry? >> Yes, so what we have seen from our customers, you know, when they first started their hybrid cloud, they would always go to the cloud providers being AWS, Azure, or Google, and they set up their first encrypted tunnel to set up a hybrid environment. But as they grow, either by the need of, you know, the growing billing that they need to have chargeback, they need to set up separate environment for their different line of business, or they have the need to do segmentation for application security. So as all these different reasons for growing the environments, and to build a hybrid cloud for a growing environment's actually very challenging. Typically it takes weeks, our customer telling us, to set up one environment. To set up one environment. And today's traditional solution requires an edge router change for every time they set up the environment. And edge router change requires change of control. And if something wrong, it's business disruption. So a lot of customers don't want to do something like that, they're always nervous about it. So we bringing the solution that not only reduce the deployment time from weeks to minutes, but also deployed in a way that completely mitigate the risk, the business disruption, and allow them to scale, allow them to do chargeback, allow them to bring different line of business to a cloud very easily. >> So you spent 13 years at Cisco. >> Yes. >> So you know a little bit about edge routers and these. >> Yes. >> You know, change-overs are serious business. >> Sherry: Yes. >> What specific use case are you guys addressing. And just walk me through a potential customer situation. >> Sherry: Yes. >> Why they would use you, is it all software, is there hardware involved? Can you just drill down on that? >> Yeah, so we deploy a virtual appliance. And the specific problem, I'll give you an example. We have a customer that, they have developers, and developers go to CIO, says, oh, I want my own environment because of difficulty challenge of setting network. You know, compute and storage are very dynamic, very easy to set up, but network go through ITs and go through the change of controls on the edge router, right. So it's very controlling environment. >> John: It's like going to the airport, you got to take your shoes off. >> Yes, that's right. >> Put your stuff through the conveyor belt. >> Sherry: Exactly. >> So it's a little like that process. >> So they end up having very few environments, and their issues with accidentally deleting each other's instances, and their issues about they're getting $150,000 a month bill, and they don't know who spent what. >> It's a pain in the butt. >> Pain in the butt. >> It's expensive. >> Yes. There's no accountability. >> And it takes a lot longer. >> Difficulty. >> Very difficult, there's no accountability. So they surely, the business owners want to see, you know, for a particular project, how much money it takes to develop, to maintain, to deploy, right? And without separate accounts and environments, there's no way of doing that. So we solve that problem, that's one of the examples. >> So you stand up networks, basically? >> Yes, we stand up environments and stand up the network. And the part of Steven mentioned cloud-native is that cloud is actually a different playground, it's a different stack that we believe that requires a new generation of products, innovation. The old, you know, tradition of routers virtualized the putting the cloud is completely unaware of the underlying infrastructure. Remember these cloud providers, they provide underlying infrastructure. You have to play into it in order to be functional. And most of these traditional vendors, they put their stuff all there and even if you configure them, they are completely not functional until you set up the routing table. You know how to do, to view the connectivity to the rest of the environment so that part we take care of that. That's one of the cloud-native. We use the APIs. We use their services to view a scalable solution. >> Timing, timing's everything with the startup. You guy's are coming into this in an interesting time. You've got, you know, sort of getting to the cloud. Amazon a couple of years ago said everything is a virtual private cloud, right? So, I've got to understand VPNs. You've now got IT organizations who are accepting that the public cloud's got to be part of their strategy. Hybrid cloud. I've got to be able to, I could start in the cloud but I want to come back and talk. You guys are kind of coming at this at kind of the right time. And we look at how fast everything's moving here. You then augment that by saying you don't have to just, you know, learn all this new technology, we'll sort of help you with it. We'll make it a SAS service, we'll make it easy to install. Like, talk about, you know, timing, what are the trends that are driving what you guys are doing? >> Yeah, that's a great point, Brian. From the timing perspective, I'd add to that. There's a lot of competition in the public cloud space. >> Brian: Sure. >> With places like Azure and Google really coming on strong. >> Brian: Yeah. >> And our software is cloud-native. That means we've built it for each of those clouds, and allows companies to have a non-lock-in multi-cloud strategy. And because it's been built in with each of those companies' APIs, it actually is much simpler to now scale those networks in the public cloud. >> Brian: Right. >> And so, the timing is really perfect, and we see that there's a lot of interest for scaling new networks. >> Right. What you guys to is sort of, I mean, networking, you know, Sherri and I know this from Cisco days, but it is somewhat fragmented. What you do on the edge of your networks and the core of your networks are very different. You guys aren't getting into the mock of kind of core data center SDN. This is very much, how do I get to the edge of a cloud, how do I get to multiple clouds, how do I keep it secure so there's a security play. Like, who's the buyer? Who's the, you know, what's the thought process? Is it the developers? Is it security teams? Who's, you know, who's your audience. >> Yeah, so our audience are the folks that are either cloud operations or network architect type of individuals. They are looking to leverage the public cloud. >> Brian: Right. >> And so it's true. We don't focus in on the data center 'cause we think that's already been handled to a large degree. >> Brian: Right. But once you start talking about public cloud, it is a different environment. It's a completely new stack. >> Brian: Yeah. >> And so our software is makes that hybrid connectivity as well as end-to-end networking across. >> So the first one was CloudOps. What was the other one? Network operations? >> Network operations, network architects. >> Architects, yeah. >> It's got to be very policy driven, you know, 'cause you could be dealing with an individual person, you could be dealing with a group of people, multiple accounts at a single customer. Like, talk a little bit about how you got to think about policy and what's changing. >> Steven: Yeah. >> In that space. >> So as people started with the cloud, typically it was all a flat network, right? And we see just as in the data center, there was micro-segmentation needing to happen. That's segmentation is taking place very rapidly in the cloud. Therefore, you need to have policies around who can access, and what resources can access which LAN in places, you know? >> Companies like Cisco, these guys, they have existing networks. So it seems that they'd be an obvious choice to go into this area. Is it because they're just so big and you guys are nimble? Or is it the competitive strategy? What's the competitive strike that you guys are making here? >> The traditional network equipment vendors, their model is around instant spaced appliances. And so you can virtualize that software and put in the cloud. The difference, though, with our software is that it's software defined. So it's designed for the cloud. And so our instances understand where it is and use the APIs. So, therefore, it's a full, it's a full network as opposed to just disparate machines that have to be configured manually. >> Sherry: Right. >> And so we're trying to lower the bar just like Docker's democratizing containers, we're looking to democratize the network in the cloud. >> And I think we see a lot of the incumbents sort of want to, they want to slow you down from using the cloud. They'd like you to stay on premise. They'd like you to sort of keep the status quo. You know, you're fighting inertia doing that. We're seeing developers have more say, people want access to resources faster. Like, you guys are part of that trend that say, hey, look, when you want to stop doing the status quo, we're there to help you, you know, help you do that. >> Sherry: Yes, yeah. >> I kind of see the cloud is in the second phase, and that's really, first phase was more about, test and development, fairly uncritical projects, or a ways to experiment. Now that's be proven, so. >> So what's your plan? You've got some cash in the bank. You guys are hiring, I see your startup. Take us through the day in the life. What's the plan for next year? Just keep on building product obviously because of the product market. Any other big plans? Well, we're scaling the organization. We've also, at DockerCon, launched a new product for the community here. We're glad to be part of the Docker Ecosystem, and it's called Project Skyhook. And it solves the problem of allowing developers to access those containers with policy. That's simply missing there today. As you said, Brian, policy is bigger. >> And you guys are targeting the policy aspect specifically. >> Policy user based access with multi-factor authentication. That sounds correct. >> Yeah. So that is actually, so we talked about hybrid cloud. Another big part of our product is actually for the cloud or the internet-borne companies where every resource, everything is in the cloud, but you still need to access them, and you want to access them with, you know, a much stronger security pasture, with a brand new access control, and also provide end to end. Like Brian was mentioning, why is the need for this product? There many needs because of segmentation, because of chargeback, because of the growing presence, because of multi-regions where you want to bring your application to the user. So the environments are actually really increasing, so to view the end to end connectivity from use to end instance is really another big part of our product, it's another big chunk of our customers. Now we're just bringing that access control and policy into containers, which like Steven says, it's completely missing today. >> Well, congratulations. You guys are filling a great void. Thanks for coming on theCUBE hot start up Aviatrix, Steven and Sherry co-founders of Aviatrix. We're here at DockerCon Live talking to all the smartest people we can, from startups to VCs, to the CEO Docker and many more here on theCube, I'm John Furrier with Brian Gracely. You're watching theCUBE. We'll be right back. (gentle music)