>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube hovering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Good morning. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 19 from Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman. Stu, this is day three of two sets of coverage for the cube and this expo hall has not gotten any less busy. Tons of people still here. >>Lisa, 65,000 I'm sure the throats are a little bit raw. The feet are tired, but there's so much good information and yeah, excited to dig in with some more of our guests. >>Yeah, so much good information that we have. Dell EMC back. Yes, we had them yesterday. There's more to talk about today. Please welcome a couple of guests. We've got Nick Brackney, senior consultant cloud at product marketing. Welcome to the queue of your first time. Happy to have you and Bob Ganley. I feel like it's been about 18 hours, maybe 20 senior consultant cloud product marketing. Welcome back. Thank you. So guys, lots of news like AWS news shot out of the cannon. One of the things though that you can't help but talk about at any event is multi-cloud organizations. The CIO is tell us on the cube all the time. We've inherited the multi-cloud. Sometimes Dave Valentic calls it a crime scene, right? For various reasons. It's not necessarily strategic, but it is becoming a reality. Talk to us about what Dell EMC is seeing. What your customer base with respect. Sorry, that's for Nick multi-cloud. Why, what are you seeing? How are you helping customers navigate it? >>Yeah, I think that, uh, there's a lot of diversity in needs for their customer base and it's really challenging for any one vendor to provide all of the solutions that they need. And so that's, that's where it's really about being able to offer them choices and giving them support to be in the right cloud for their workload. And so as we talk about this idea of cloud in the state, you said, you know, if, if they're in one or more clouds, it's really important that they have consistency across those clouds because otherwise the crime scene turns into something that's a, a management headache for everyone. >>Yeah. Nick, I wonder if we could tease that out a little bit because consistency's important. You know, when I think about, you know, multi-vendor in the data center for years, you know, VMware did a pretty good job of abstracting a certain layer. I'm a little worried that we're trying to recreate some of the silos of the past, you know, in giant cloud environment. So how do we make sure we learn from the past? And because skill sets are very different, the products underneath are very different. So while there might be certain point applications that I might need, the message here at Amazon is, you know, they've got the broadest and deepest environments they are. If you're doing multi-cloud, they're gum. Do one of them. So, you know, bring us inside your customers and how we make sure that we don't end up with that crime scene that Dave talked about and uh, all the pieces. >>I think first off, you can't look at technology in a vacuum. You really have to be thinking about people and processes. What can a business actually consume? You know, we run into a lot of talking about containers and containers is a great path forward to go cloud native. And that's really easy if you're starting from scratch. If you have a thousand apps though that currently sit in on premises, it's really challenging to make that move. And you know, which ones do I replatform, which ones do I lift and shift. And so I think that's one of the things we're doing with, you know, I work with VMR cloud foundation is we have one platform that can handle both virtualization and containers so you can have a orderly progression towards cloud native. >>What about the people part of it? I think we talked about this a little bit yesterday, Bob, and that's actually something that has come up in a lot of our conversations is it's not just about the technology for many reasons. How do you help the people? Because part of that's cultural and that's a really a challenging change to undergo. >>You know, I think you have to meet them where they are. Right? And that's, I read an article and someone said that the, uh, for, for analytics that most CEOs still are using Excel. There are all these other really advanced analytics things, but that's what they're most comfortable with. So when we look at the, the fact that all these organizations have really standardized on VMware, that's a really easy move for them to make because you can take your existing skill sets, you know, the, the investments you've made in the software defined data center and now you can extend them to the cloud and you can take the existing best practices that you have in your data center and you can move those to the cloud. So you're not surprised when you get there with all of the configurations and all the management, all the security challenges. >>And I want to add to that actually because I think one of the underlooked aspects of this whole thing is the idea that, like you said, if you have silos of operation, then you've got challenges. And so I like to say security for example, begins with who are you, what do you have access to? So if you have different ways of doing that on prem than in cloud, you're by definition at a riskier state. Same thing for compliance. Same thing for automation. If you've got multiple different tools to use, you know, it's just harder to do. So I think, you know, the consistency thing is very, very important. >>Excellent. Bob, you, you're the straight man for my next question here because, uh, if you listen to our hosts here of AWS, they don't use that multi-cloud word yet. The biggest conversation of discussion that I've had across with AWS with customers and uh, you know, with the ecosystem here has been outposts and absolutely Amazon might not even use the hybrid term, but absolutely is that extension between inconsistency between the public cloud and in my data center. So I'd like to hear, you know, Dell Dell's perspective outposts of course, hugely important. Sure. >>You know, I think it'd be really easy or almost trite to say that, Oh, you know, Amazon is justifying the fact that there's on prime infrastructure, right? I mean, Andy comes out and says 97% of it revenue still on prem. I think, you know, everybody understands that. I think it comes down to the following investment protection, trust and choice and investment protection is about organizations today have a huge investment in the way they're doing business now and clearly VM where's the lion's share of on-prem virtualization today? So it makes sense to extend that investment toward hybrid cloud and there's a very natural path to do that from the perspective of trust. When you look at on prem infrastructure, who better to work with in Dell EMC? I mean we're number one in HCI, number one in servers, number one in storage, we know how to do on prem and now with Dell technologies cloud we're extending that to a very consistent hybrid cloud model with AWS. >>Uh, and the third thing is, you know, choice, which is outposts is interesting because it's a completely managed service. Some organizations want that managed service. What we bring to the table with Dell technologies cloud is either Delta technologies, cloud platform, which is you manage it the way you normally manage it or the VMware cloud on Dell EMC, which is a completely managed service. So we have the data center as a service offering. We have the you manage it mr customer, which aligns with the way they're doing business. And I think last but not least is this whole idea of cloud economics and this concept of allowing people to pay for things by the drink, which is something that, you know, we're helping organizations do with their on premise. >>Bob actually just want to make sure I understand what you're talk about that managed service, the outpost solutions with VMware's expected in 2020. Does that then roll under the Dell technology cloud offering on E on VMware? I just want to make sure how I ended, how that is expected to. >>Yeah. So no it doesn't because that's essentially um, the Amazon hardware with the VMware stack on it on premises. And what we're offering for a data center as a service solution is a VMware cloud on Dell EMC, formerly known as project dimension, which is, you know, the trusted Dell EMC hardware with the verified VMware stack very tightly integrated. So it's cloud like operations on premise. >>Yeah. Yeah. So similar consumption models, similar design points, but different hardware stacks, >>consumption models, which is I think, yeah, I was going to say one of the other things you have to look at too when you're thinking about why now, why is this happening? And I think it's because people are starting to realize something that we've been saying for a long time, which is that cloud isn't a place, it's an operating model. And so by being able to bring that into the data center, what you're doing is you're extending it to more workloads. And I think that's great for customers. That's what they want and that's what we're trying to build ourselves. >>Bob, a question for you, some of the aligning with Stewart's question this week since the announcement of outpost, what Amazon is doing announced last year coming to fruition now, what are some of the things that you're hearing around the event from Dell EMC customers? Are they, are they understanding what that opportunity is for them? Yeah, >>we've been doing this for a while, right? So, um, VMware cloud on Dell EMC has been general availability since VM world of 2019 we announced it in 2018 we've got tons of customers that are very interested, thousands of customers running, um, within VMware cloud on AWS and now looking at this data center as a service solution, as an extension to that on prem. The thing that's cool about it is that they don't have to touch the hardware, they don't have to touch the software. It all gets managed remotely, but it's used just like on prem infrastructure. Right. So it's a great solution. >>Yup. Nica what one of the things that always gets talked about here is there's a big shift from apex to AFEX, uh, at this show. Uh, one of the things that surprises me as customers get all excited, Amazon comes out with new feature and they said, Hey, we're going to give you insight and we're going to save you 30% over what you were paying last year. Just because you probably weren't configuring it crate in your world. If you came to a customer and said, Oh, Hey, we oversold you stuff in this there, they'd probably be walking you out the door. But Dell has been doing some interesting things, going more cloud native with the economic model. Maybe speak a little bit to that. >>I have, I mean, I think it's something that's great. You know, cloud economics makes it easy to get going with a, with a small investment and scale out and, and, uh, move more quickly when be more agile. And so what we wanted to do was bring that same agility and ability to kind of innovate, uh, and, and not have the cost be a barrier by then extending that across our portfolio at Dell technologies on demand. So that's really about, you know, whether you want to do metered usage, whether you want a subscription or whether, you know, I want to, uh, you know, purchase hardware upfront, wait till I'm going to hit the switch and turn it on, and then I'll start getting built. But then I have the idea, the same thing as cloud, where it's, it's this idea of unlimited capacity at your fingertips, right? It's, it's not actually unlimited. We sometimes see that some, even some clouds run out of space, but it's, it's, you're able to move quicker. You don't have to wait those three, four, six weeks for the hardware to come in because it's already sitting there. >>Well, in legacy businesses don't have that much time because there are invariably in every industry, there is a born in the cloud company that is moving faster, has a different mindset and it's probably chomping at the bit right behind them. Take over that business. If that legacy enterprise isn't able to work fast enough. >>Absolutely. But what really makes us really interesting is that we're still offering you more choices, right? So the thing is, is there are certain workloads that break cloud economics, whether it's massive storage that, you know, I always tell people, you spin up and spin down VMs, you never delete data because that is super valuable to your business or you know, uh, we find certain workloads that are steady state, right? You know, cloud is really great when you're scaling up. Scaling down, when you're, you know, flipping off the switch of the lights. When you leave the room, if you leave it on all the time it can add up. And so it's really nice not just about bringing the cloud economics into the data center, but by bringing that consistent experience across both the data center and your cloud is now you can let the business requirements and the application requirements determine what the best place to put the workload is. Yeah. >>So, sorry. So Bob won, one of the big themes at this show is transformation. You've got it on your hat. When we talk about the cloud native space, uh, we were said there were the cloud native companies, they were born in the cloud. We said there are many companies that are becoming born again in the cloud. You know, bring us inside a little bit. What you're seeing, just the discussion point is you just can't incrementally get there. It requires, you know, executive management, uh, involvement and you know, it is a radical change in the way you build your application. And that has a ripple effect through everything that you do. >>Yeah, absolutely does. When you think about it, there is an evolution happening in application architectures and that evolution is from physical to virtual to now infrastructure is a service to add the additional efficiency and automation orchestration. Now container as a service, as we see organizations moving toward cloud native and containers to platform as a service and function as a service. And when you think about that, organizations need to bring their existing investments in virtualized applications forward as they're adding on containers as they're looking at this next generation cloud native. So we believe the right solution is to preserve that investment and bring that forward. So we've been adding cloud native, um, you know, standard upstream Kubernetes distribution to, uh, our Dell technologies cloud platform and that allows organizations to extend our investments. So that's one thing is that architectural evolution. The second thing is what I call the operational evolution that's happening as well. And the operational evolution is, you know, cloud has revolutionized the way people look at it because it's so easy to use. So what we're doing is bringing that operational evolution to the data center as well, where we're completely integrating the on prem infrastructure so that you can life cycle management in an automated fashion. And we're doing that both for infrastructure as a service and now for container as a service for Cooper daddy's. So we're excited about both the architectural and operational evolution. >>Well, and Nick, I'd be curious your viewpoint of this show, it's really a interesting mix of you've got enterprise, you've got developers, you've got everything in between and personas. So brick is inside something for the conversations you're having, how you worked with some of those different personas. >>I think it's really interesting because the shift towards containers means a shift dev ops. And when you're looking at that, uh, I think what's lost in the way is when I went and talked to my friends who spent a lot of time as it ops folks, they think very differently than developers. When something goes wrong, their immediate reaction is, please roll it back. Whereas a developer, thanks, hold on, let me add some more code to this and we'll fix it that way. And so I think the challenge right now is, is the burden is shifting and it's shifting towards developers. And one of the things I think with our solution and you know, hopefully, you know, project Pacific with VMware, what's coming down the path where they're, they're injecting, you know, containers into vSphere, all of that. Hopefully what's going to come out of that is, is you're going to make the job a little bit easier for developers because when you start doing dev ops or God forbid dev sec ops, and you're burdening these people with all these responsibilities, how are they still gonna innovate? That's really a big challenge. And I think when I'm at a show like this, I hear it from both sides. So it's really fascinating to hear the different perspectives and they're not necessarily aligned. >>Yeah, it's just that the, the quick note on that, in order's keynote, he puts out the giant thing on the board. You know, everything fails all the time. That's not what the enterprise was used to in the old world. And that's what that transformation is a little bit uncomfortable for many of them. >>And speaking of being uncomfortable, you know, Bobby talked about cloud, especially next gen cloud brings up opportunities, a lot of opportunity, but with it comes architectural change as you mentioned, uh, operational change but cultural change. Final questions and thoughts, Nick, from you, what are in the respect of the opportunity, but those changes, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you're seeing enterprises make and how can they avoid those? >>Yeah, so I mean, the first thing is I think that people have been sweeping mandates. When people say cloud first as a mandate, I think what they're, what they're missing in that is there's so much exuberance. They're not thinking through what is the workload need, what does the business need? And cloud should absolutely be a big part of anyone's strategy moving forward. But you need to be thoughtful about what you do. And, and uh, Pat Pat Gelsinger talks about there's three laws, the laws of physics, the laws of economics and then the laws of the land. You know, I always joke around, we still haven't managed to find a way to travel faster than the speed of light. So latency is always an issue. And then the second thing is, uh, around the shared responsibility model. You know, when you move to infrastructure as a service, people think, wow, I, I, they're taking care of everything. This is super easy. And what they haven't always figured out is that they're still on the hook for a lot of things from a security perspective, from a manageability perspective, from a data protection perspective. And if you fail to actually address those, then you might run into some problems down the line. >>Guys, good stuff. Always so much to talk about. Thank you both for joining Stu and me on the program today. Bob, I probably see again at the airport tonight. We appreciate you joining soon and stick around on the QTC is later today. Andy Jassy AWS CEO is going to be on, but for now, I'm Lisa Martin for. Thanks for watching the cube.