>>from around the globe. It's the cue with digital coverage of out systems. Next step 2020 brought to you by Out systems. Welcome back. I'm stupid, man. In this, the cubes coverage of out systems next step always love when you get to come to the conference is to be able to talk to the practitioners, understand what they're doing. Give us some recommendations that they have for their peers. So happy to welcome to the program. First time guests make eye Spruce es, which is the global vice president of information technology at Colliers International coming to us from Vancouver because I thank you so much for joining us. >>Thank you for having me great to be here. >>All right, if you could just set up for us. First of all, uh, collars. If you know, how should people be thinking about all yours in 2020 and just a little bit briefly about you know, your role there. >>Okay. So, Colliers International, it's a leading commercial real estate for more in 69. 0, sorry. 68 countries. We have over 18,000 professionals around the globe. My role, it's who coordinated the information technology globally. We are very much distributor to decentralized organization. So we have technology groups all around the globe, and, ah, my role is pretty much toe set a direction. And to make sure that we were following on that direction appropriately, >>All right, so the theme we hear it the show, it's about building it. You hear from out system building fast, Build it right, build it for the future. Lots of discussion in the industry about how you need to modernize. And a lot of that is building new applications. So if you could, you know, how does that application portfolio modernization fit in your environment? What are some of the business things that are driving you to build new applications? >>Well, you know, thank you for asking me what of the things that are driving cause that that's one of the teams that I am. Keep bringing up that you have to start with. With that, you have to start with. Why? Why do you even build applications? So what's happening in my mind, or at least I can tell these days is that the environment of business environment, not necessarily the technology environment, but the business environment is changing and it's changing very fast, and we need to adapt to that. We need to adopt a new ways off, engaging with the clients, for example, or providing a service or who you know. Sometimes we just call it and say we digitize and and that's the whole, you know, digital transformation story that. But that's the reason why you need applications because applications are end of the day. What makes us more efficient in What are we doing? That's where the machine interacts with with humans right behind that you have the infrastructure and all that stuff that nobody sees. But what you see it is that application in your phone. It's application that makes you better make you more efficient on the time. That's why it's very important to be able to do it. And if you're just gonna buy everything, you're not gonna derive any competitive advantage out of it. You just gonna, you know, use what's available so more and more these days, we recognize that ability create something specific for the industry or for the organization is extremely important. So I think that's where the ability toe build this application fits for us as well >>All right. Well, you know, we've seen in general that that digitization is something that happened for a lot of years. I have to imagine 2020 has had some specific impacts. Ah, on the marketplace. You know, everybody that interested in real estate, there was probably a brief pause. But now things need to be more online. You mentioned mobile. Um, you know, I would think that being able to react fast is something that it has been driving your activity. Take us inside that. And, you know, how is 2020 impacted your activity specific? >>Well, uh, 2020 has really put Ah, you know, something which is always in my mind to the test and watch in my mind is, well, you know, the business agility that I'm talking about many times. And it's not necessarily that 2020 has forced tested. But in the first half of 2020 I don't think that the ability to create application was tested immediately. First off, all, it was tested. The ability to work in a different environment, work from home or work from somewhere else where you are not, you know, in ah exposed the Corbett 19. Um pandemic eso So that was the first part that was was tested. And, you know, I'm I'm extremely proud of our organization that for us, that was not too much off initial. I mean, our our system has has, uh, um, you know, help us do that. Transmission Very quick and very smooth as we are moving through 2020. Now it's not toe get ah, get our footing again. And you know, people are referring to this as but he would I want the new normal ease. And as we figured out what the new normally is, we start shifting again back to the application. So how are we going to do things in the new normal? What is becoming more important now that it was before, right? It's all of the sudden my ability toe capture, infrared term, our cameras has become a priority. And I'm not saying that the necessary has by just as an example thing that I haven't thought about necessarily before. Now I need to switch very fast in tow that my ability to track my ability toe, you know, Ah, let people in the office, you know, in a certain way, toe to figure out how many people are in the office. Was the density those things before Cove in There were kind of Well, that's very interesting. Yeah, we kind of have a lot off office. We can cram lots of people in their noticeable Ah, well, that's gone. So all of the sudden, those technologies that were called, you know, emerging are becoming very fast mainstream. So our ability to incorporate them it's critical. >>Wonderful, not another. We've laid out some of, ah, you know, the business drivers and some of the urgent needs. They have helped us connect the dots, your usage of out systems. Maybe if you could take us back how long you've been using it on and what that's enabled for your business, >>right? Ah, we They were doctored out systems about three years ago. And wait didn't necessarily take the the most successful pattern did the most successful Parton seems to be or taking a low code platform. All systems on this case and you start with something small and you grow from there. We actually had a mission critical system in our hands, which waas obsolete was the legacy was was a time bomb off technical debt, and we knew that we need to change this, but we didn't want to do it in a traditional way. We didn't want to create another monolithically application. Another stovepipe, um, so So? So that's when we look for something that we call the digital platform. Andi. That's how we got toe out systems. And we adopted it for that particular systems. Now the byproduct, of course we delivered on that, and it's fantastic and it's great, and we had lots of experience, and I can tell you what to do and what not to do under our duty parent, but, um, the by product off that is, that created what we were really after strategically created that capability to do things very fast, right? And it's not only your doing it fast, but your chances to do it passed and well has increased dramatically. You know, from the perspective that chances are that you're gonna be on brand, which it's a struggle, let me tell you that with the developers don't really care about the colors, Ana, and that it's you know it's following your security patterns and whatever it is in there. All this have have increased dramatically by putting, uh, putting it in this platform. >>So when you say, do it fast and do it well, did you have metrics internally as how you measure that? Is it you know, cycle time, time to market, you know, some, you know, percentage of quality of code. How do you kind of measure that it is demonstrably better today faster today? More agile today. Then what you were doing? Four. >>So, first off, all of those are KP eyes that a non technical organization probably has not have in the past. Okay, so that s so this is something that Microsoft will measure or Intuit will measure and stuff like that, which is just a background, because it's interesting. Now we start measuring, but for us, it's very simple. So how many new applications did we develop in the last? I don't know. 10 years. Um, zero way. We had a moment 10 years ago. We developed a lot of things and and and then we were kept going and going. And that's how they get legacy. How many did we developed in the last 18 months? Well, about 19 I think, keep growing, so I think we just start to learn what the KP I should be. I really I don't know any is 19. Good is it is too much. Maybe you should be. Should be only eight eso we learn on the escapee eyes one one KP Eido or one measurement is not the KP I cause I didn't really make it okay. Yeah, yeah, but it's a measurement. In the past, an application was build and then, you know, sporadically. There were efforts to bring it up to date and the business behavior Aziz relates toe that was very specific. They tried to cram everything during the project time because the chances that nothing will ever be reviewed in the next couple of years were close to zero. Well, let me tell you how the new application that we created the core one that mission critical. It's on a release cycle, a weekly release cycle. This is unheard for our organization. And I were gonna I gonna tell you that in my 25 years off managing applications and I d in various industries, non technical industry, that that that's that's critical. I will never achieved with anything that kind off pace. So do I have clear Kate guys to tell you this is way better? No, but I can tell you that there are a whole bunch of things that are emerging, and we will start measuring in in the future that are clear indication that we're in a better sport than we used to be. >>Well, well, well, right it is. It's the measurements that are important to your business That matters. Obviously clear. You've unlocked new capabilities that you didn't have before. It was zero applications on. Now, as you said, you know that why you're delivering value to the business. You understand what it takes to do that. And you know that that general discussion of like, well, everybody is becoming a software business? I think you've laid out some of that, at least in where you are. Right out. You know why that's important for your business. So you mentioned Ah, some things you've learned along the way. I'd love to hear you know, your journey of three years Looking back, certain best practices you've seen out there share a little bit of that wisdom that you've gained, You know? What would you recommend? Piers that are starting down this journey or maybe need to take a new look at how they look at their software development. What would you share with them? >>Yes. Ah, we learned quite a bit. Um, the fact that to get the tool in place, it's ah, it's it's it's really really not. Not enoughto see the benefit way grossly underestimated the resistance to change inside off. I t um so you know, if I would give somebody advice, I would say, Well, if you are, you know, in a typical North American organization where you know, people matters and what they think and what they do matters and you can't just be a, you know, some kind off. Ah, dictatorial. Ah, leader. Then then then you have to give yourself time because people need toe, understand the benefits or off the platform, the local It is not something that is necessarily yeah, immediately embraced by even the brightest devil locals. And unfortunately, we we've seen great people. Um, you know, leaving us eventually because they simply didn't give them by in the concept. So you know anybody who starts this journey, I would say, Do not underestimate the psychological change that needs to happen in order to become efficient at at this. Then it's another the interesting one. There are many, but, you know, the dough. So I think are interesting. You gonna be for the first time, probably way faster than the business respond. And this is something that again I haven't seen in the past in my career where you know you're developing things and you have a question. You come something and you ask the business. So how should this be? It's, you know, it's left or its right and the question is straightforward and the businesses scratching their head is like, Well, like, this is not a simple answer. I really I don't know. I need to think about it. And the business may think a couple of days, and in that time you are You're not putting if you don't plan properly. So So you are so fast that if you're not managing your pipeline and you are not accounting for the fact that the business won't be able to keep up with you and will need to have time to think about certain things, you're gonna have a whole bunch off, uh, off death times now you can fill them with all kinds of things. You can pay technical debt that you build in your previous are jive cycles. It's a whole bunch of things to do, but you need to account for that. And I said, I never seen it before and I always I was trying to catch up to the business. It was for the first time now they actually see this thing reversed and it's uncomfortable. It's It's I saw this becoming uncomfortable actually, for the business. It was perceived that only you are putting a lot of pressure on me right now. Well, yeah, but you know what? If you want me to be fast, we need to respond fast. It's kind of dynamic that is changing in a very interesting way. Eventually, I would say, and it doesn't take a long time, but eventually everybody is generally happier. I was just talking that of day with, uh, you know, our V p off, not American account. It was one of the stakeholders on this product and she said, Well, yeah, this is This is so much. Ah, better than anything we waded before from from an experience perspective, not necessarily from a you know, feature by feature, which is also extremely before rental, and much better, but yes, two things. Psychology off the developer and the velocity that the business can provide. When you're developing on this higher productivity platform, it's something you keep in mind. >>Well, maybe high it makes me It makes me laugh a little bit. I think back to in the early days of cloud computing rolling out there was that discussion that, you know, maybe I t won't matter anymore. It will just become a utility. And the discussion mostly iose that I talk to people in i t is that I t needs to be responsive to the business and actually can reach a point where it is a major driver for that. And so that agility, that speed that you talk about is helping Teoh, you know, really bring things together. Ah, and help. Have you know you need to have that common vision. Um great. What? Want to give you final word? You've worked without systems number year. We're watching them as they you know, Anting, their products Seymour machine learning and ai baked into it for those coming, you know, watching the next step show. You know what final words would you give them from from this event? >>Oh, I wasn't prepared for that. And I guess keep up, the good work would be done. The thing we we made a big bet on ah, on out systems. We want to see them growing. Want to see the community off, local developers growing. I want toe. And I don't know if I want to tell out system, but I want to tell the development community you still need to be a great developer to be able to deliver great applications in low court. It doesn't diminish anybody's value in the in the market is just a different way was gonna make the developer community more productive. We're automating our own tools. That's a normal way to go. And I think out system is doing a fantastic job. Ah, ah dot And I'm looking forward, though, to see growing. I think the next iteration I'm off this thing. I want to see a little bit more off the You know, in our case, I hope to see a little bit more off the citizen developer, uh, coming, coming out and and continue to enhance this. This Ah, Julia tedious. This flexibility, the ability to create and off the day. You know, it's all about competitive advantage for the organization we're in. It's you can part a phrase you and say I t really doesn't matter but creating value out of the technology. It's it's really what matters, and and that's everybody should get the ice on that. >>May I really appreciate you sharing your perspective? Thanks so much >>for joining us. Well, thank you for having me >>stay tuned for more coverage from out systems. Next, step on spew minimum and thank you for watching the Cube.

>> Narrator: Live from Seattle, Washington it's theCUBE covering Smartsheet ENGAGE 2019. Brought to you by Smartsheet. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Smartsheet ENGAGE here in Seattle. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Jeff Frick. We're joined by Kristin Komassa. She is the VP Process Improvement at Colliers International Wisconsin. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having me, I'm excited to be here. >> So you're here direct from Milwaukee. Tell our viewers a little bit about Colliers International Wisconsin. >> Yeah, so Colliers International Wisconsin, we are recognized as the largest full-service commercial real estate company in the state of Wisconsin. And when I say full-service it means we have everything from brokerage to property management to facilities, architecture, development. We cover the gamut on both the commercial and we've actually started a residential program, as well. So, we've got you covered. >> Excellent, so tell us now about your Smartsheet story. There was a movie that played during the keynote address where we heard a lot about your Smartsheet experience. But you tell our viewers now. >> Yeah, so I started using Smartsheet in 2012 when I came to Colliers and really it was a one specific project that we needed to really wrap our arms around and other methods weren't doing it at all. So I discovered Smartsheet. And ironically if you took Smartsheet from 2012 and put it next to Smartsheet 2019, you wouldn't think they're the same product at all. But it solved our issues at that time. We were able to really elevate what we were doing with that client. We were recognized, and the company ownership saw that if you can do this with one client, what could you do with the whole company? And over the past years we have really rolled it out both internally through the operational side, from how we just manage our day-to-day business to also how do we get in with those clients and how do we manage their real estate with this software program? So that's kind of been my journey and it's been fun and it's been amazing and I'm looking forward to the next phase. >> So what was the killer app in 2012 that you couldn't do with any other tool that was so breakthrough? >> We were starting with Excel and it was just an extremely large portfolio. We tried to do Google Sheets, that didn't work. And Smartsheet was the app of choice, that we could collaboratively work on this entire portfolio but manage it with a security level, because it was a banking institution, that they were concerned. And Smartsheet, even at that time, they knew that security was a big issue with their clients. >> So was it the ability to cross-company collaborate with the banking client as well as your own team? That was-- >> It was. It was a large team, we had 15 people, so you can imagine version control was huge. >> Nightmare. >> Yeah, a nightmare. Nobody wants to see an Excel document sent to 15 people asking for revisions. And, again, we had to be able to report to this banking customer in their own format and we had again really aggregate that data in a consistent and repeatable way, but yet still maintain that control. And Smartsheet allowed us to do that in a very flexible and customizable way. So we didn't buy something off the shelf that we'll maybe use 50% of it, we used 100% of what we purchased. >> So 2012, that's a while ago. >> A little bit. >> Can you talk about the cultural change from your company now that you use Smartsheet on a regular basis and how that has helped you collaborate and helped you be more creative with each other, helped you understand the big picture? >> Yeah, so really in 2012 we were a slightly smaller company. It was coming right out of the recession and when there was a lot of REO properties and just there was some issues in real estate in general. And we were able to really ride that wave and come back a lot stronger than we were because we were able to cross-collaborate between all of our different company divisions, and really show our clients, one of our taglines is Better Together, and that's what we were. And it's easy to be better together when you have a platform that helps you build that up. And our company has since kind of shed some of those maybe less desirable properties or product type and really moved into the class-A downtown markets because we're able to now work with some of those more sophisticated owners of real estate and those sophisticated clients that are, they're really looking for not just a real estate expert, but an advisor for them. How do you help me take my real estate and make it work for my business? And Smartsheet was a big part of that. >> It really has evolved your role. As you said, it's much more of a, you're much more of an advisor now. >> Yes, we are definitely much more of an advisor, of a consultant, of a trusted partner, is what we are. And it's not always just about real estate anymore, it's about building those relationships. But showing them as well as to, how can we put all those pieces together and then still have full transparency with you? And with our other vendors and our clients and bringing everybody together. >> So I love that you, looking at the big picture and big changes in the big picture, but you've also talked about it's a combination of lots of little things that add up to the big thing. I think one of your videos you talked about a push notice for an accept/decline was a game changer. And then today we heard in the keynote, a copy/paste from one to the other got a standing ovation. So what was your favorite feature for today? And I'm just curious, is that approach something that you've adopted also in the way that you use the tool to engage with your clients? >> Every ENGAGE that I've been to I leave and I'm just so excited to get back and start implementing everything because, again, Smartsheet really listens to their clients. But really from what the things that were announced today, it seems like a simple thing but I'm really excited about Move Row. Because when you're done with a project, it doesn't take a lot of time to actually grab it and move it down, but if somebody forgot to do it and it's rolling up to your aggregate data and all that, it's just such a little thing but it makes such a big difference. Show me only my active in-flight projects. I don't want to see my completed ones or my closed, or my on-hold, if I change the status. Give me what I care about, front and center. So Move Row wass my big thing. >> Love it. >> But that is what we've been talking about, frankly, all day, is how these little things can add up to be the big aggravations of work. And so when you are slowly chipping away at all of the annoyances, that leads to a much more pleasant work day. >> Kristin: It definitely does. >> And a much more satisfying work life. >> Yep, I'll take any second I can gain back in a day. >> Right, so we talked about how Colliers International Wisconsin has really evolved from sort of, not a small-time real estate, but now you are this trusted partner of so many wealthier clients. Talk about the internal culture, though, in terms of how you all work together. >> Yeah, so some of our key features are like we like Warrior-Spirit, and this Better Together, and being innovators. And that's really what Smartsheet has encouraged us to be, is more of these innovators and working together and really being a champion internally. You'd be amazed, a lot of real estate companies, they have a lot of brokers and then employees and maybe not everybody, there are different personality types and all that, but our company has been able to figure out a way to pull everybody together and aggregate that data for a real big picture from both sides. Instead of looking at employees versus consultants, but just everybody. What is Colliers? And it's been amazing because Smartsheet has been that platform that we've utilized to do that and to bring everybody up. The collaboration that it has encouraged between different departments. Everybody knowing what is going on with a project or knowing that if you're talking to the same client that I'm talking to and how do we now work together, versus you make a phone call and you just called my client. I don't want that happening and it makes you sound kind of silly. How do we work together for a common purpose, basically, is what's happened. >> So is it the primary work tool that's open on people's desks? >> Yes, it is. It's open on my desk 100% of the time and we have actually created individualized dashboards for every single one of our brokers and it is their ground zero where they go to for all of their information. For if they have a new listing, if they have to submit commission information, if they want to submit a referral to another one of our lines. That is where they go. Our property managers, we're working right now to create their individual dashboards where, again, they're going to be living in there, and how they're communicating with their landlords and their owners and, how do you aggregate that tenant data in there so that everybody on your team is all on the same page? But again, it's living in Smartsheet is what the entire company is doing these days. >> So you talked about how this was 2012 when you first adopted it. The real estate business particularly, and commercial real estate not in a great position, in a much better, more solid position today. What are you thinking about for the future in terms of how your industry evolves and how you're going to need tools to help you evolve? >> Yeah, our clients, it's a tech world, everything. Your fridge can order milk for you these days. If you have a real estate and they're not an advisor, they're just a real estate broker and they're not accessing the technology that is out there to help you get market intel at the touch of your fingertips. They almost want you to anticipate what their question is going to be before they ask it. And they want that data available at night, on the weekends, in the morning, at their own schedule. If you're not able to provide that but you have to send them an email and they have to wait on it, I think that you're going to fall behind. You have to be able to keep up with the world of technology and becoming less of a one, I'm just going to help you on this single transaction to I'm helping you on this one, but what's the next one? And how does it affect your business? And how do I become your partner and your advisor and just that trusted partner? And that's where it's going, I think. >> And have you been able to, are you able to do those things because it has freed up your time? Because that's another thing we hear about this technology, is that because it is automating so many of the manual, repetitive tasks, you do have more time to be creative, to think more holistically and more about the future. >> Yeah and that's really what we're pushing is, if it's an administrative task, if it's something that you can automate it, do it. Don't take another day sending a repetitive email or you checking your calendar, did somebody finish something? Have the system do it for you. Did somebody, if you assigned a task, did they do it? You shouldn't have to babysit them for it. And yes, it should free you up to, how do I look strategically? How do I look forward into something? Instead of constantly trying to look backwards as to what did we do? Has it been completed? It should be done and we should be on to the next step at this point. >> So you said that you always come away from ENGAGEs so excited, so happy to come back to your office and talk about what you've learned. What do you think it's going to be from this one? Besides Move Row? Which I know is going to change your life, Kristin. >> Move Row will change my life, but there's a lot of things. You know what, so many things. Again, Smartsheet, I can't reiterate enough, they listen to their customers. And going back and figuring out how do I optimize something that I already thought was the apex thing that I was going to create, how do I now make it better? How do I make it so that it frees up somebody else's time? So that maybe them moving a row down, they no longer have to do that. How do I now make the next one even better? So I'm just, I'm excited, again, about that continuous process improvement. >> Excellent. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure having you. >> Thank you, I'm excited to be here. >> And now you're a CUBE veteran. >> Now I'm a CUBE veteran, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Frick, stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of ENGAGE 2019. (upbeat electronic music)