>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge18, I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Dave Vellante. We're joined by Chris Bedi, he is the CIO of ServiceNow. Thanks so much for coming on the show Chris. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, we're hearing so much about improving employee experience and this is the goal, your goal, and also the collective goal of CIO, so can you tell us a little bit about why this, and how do you see your role in this? >> Yeah for sure, I mean if I rewind three or four years I don't think experience was really on anybody's agenda, or not high on the list. I think, you know, what we've come to realize or I've come to realize is that experience is critical to actually getting the right behavioral and economic outcomes. It is not optional anymore because with the amount of transformation that we're driving through technology it's changing processes, changing the way customers interact with us, suppliers interact with us, and that change needs to be easy. And not just easy for easy sake, but otherwise we don't get the business outcomes we are looking for. So, for me it's very purpose driven to say that for us to get those economic outcomes we have to focus on experience. >> I feel like the CIO role is evolving, and we've talked about this before, I'd love your thoughts on it. You know, it kind of used to be, alright we're going to keep the lights on, granted that's still part of the role but it's table stakes. >> It doesn't go away. (Rebecca laughs) But yes, still part of the role. >> You know, we can outsource our email, you know, what are we going to do with the cloud, okay. That's shifting, you know, with the digital economy, machine intelligence, the economy booming, this war on talent especially in Silicone Valley. Things are changing, how do you see the role changing and where do you see it evolving to? >> Well, I think the CIO role is changing. It's driven really by what's going on in every industry. If you think about it, everything, how fast your company operates, how efficient your processes are, how engaged your employees are via employee experiences, the mode in which you're able to interact with your customers, how digital your supply chain is, everything is powered by technology platforms and CIO's are the ones governing and managing and those technology platforms to deliver those outcomes, and I think it's only going to increase where technology has a bigger and bigger impact and I think that is really driving a shift in the CIO role where CIO's need to be front and center. There is no more, here's the business strategy, here's the technology strategy. They are one and the same thing and I think in our consumer lives we talk about the digital divides or the have's and have nots. I think the same thing is going to play out in enterprises where those enterprises that can figure out how to harness these newer technologies to drive meaningful business outcomes are going to start to separate themselves from the competition and that separation's only going to get bigger with time. So I think there's a tremendous amount of urgency on this topic as well. I was reading a recent article which talked about CEO's priorities for IT and saying favoring speed over cost, and I don't think that's because all of a sudden we're going to become frivolous with our spending. But I think again it just speaks to the urgency and the need for businesses to transform and it's now. >> It's not just harnessing the technologies, it's also harnessing the employee behaviors that need to change in order to create these cultural shifts that you're talking about, right, or? >> Yeah, for sure, and I would say and we had our CIO Decisions yesterday, one of the key topics was, you know, driving cultural transformation and I find that's a lot of what I'm doing and that involves a lot of selling, quite frankly. I mean, I don't have sales in my title, but by the very definition of it we're saying this technology has the promise to unlock a new business model, unlock a new process. Get to that next level of efficiency or productivity. But, you're selling a vision, right, and that means change, and people don't like change. As long as someone else is changing they're fine with it, once it's themselves, so we have to focus a lot and really double down on transformation efforts and play a key role in that, and to link it back to your first question, that transformation gets so much easier if we can deliver compelling experiences, right? So, it's all kind of tied together. >> Four years ago at K15, Frank Slootman sort of threw down the gauntlet to CIO's in the audience and said, you must become business leaders, if you don't become business leaders you'll be a dinosaur. How are you a business leader, and how are you becoming a business leader? >> I think it's really shaping IT's agenda based upon what's important to the organization. And, that's going to be different for different organizations but largely it's going to be things tied to customers, how productive and engaged are the employees, what can we do to drive margin, which is top and bottom line improvement in the economic model, and making sure that IT's goals and objectives are one and the same with the business goals and objectives. So, for example we do at ServiceNow in IT, we have a shared contract with every function. Marketing, sales, you know, professional services, that here's the business outcomes. On my dashboard, you'll seldom see a whole bunch of IT metrics, it's all about did we get to the business metric or not. Cuz if you're not measuring that then I'm not sure what you're measuring. >> Okay, so you, and I'm sure you have a lot of IT metrics, too, but you're able to then tie those IT metrics to business metrics >> Sure. >> And show how a change in one flows through the value to affect another. >> Yeah, I mean, where the role was, that doesn't go away and it's a critical part of the role and I don't want to undermine it which is, all the invisible things that just happen in corporations, you know, the utilities of, is the networking, and phones and all that, that has to be rock solid. That's table stakes, but yeah, for the next part of that, it's really driving those transformational business outcomes. >> So you're a big proponent and advocate of machine learning, how do you see machine learning transforming the modern work experience, the modern workplace and then the employee experience of the modern workplace? >> I think at a very high level, it's around speed and effectiveness of decision making. And, machine learning, I think has the promise or the opportunity for all of us to unlock that next wave of productivity. Just like in the late '90s we had ERP's and they drove a lot of automation, and supply chain and finance organizations around the world got better. They got faster, more efficient. I think machine learning can do that for the entire enterprise by leveraging platforms to help people make faster and better decisions. I know there's a lot written about replacing humans and things like that. I don't buy into that, I think it's just helping us be better and I think there's used cases all over the enterprise. The biggest barriers to machine learning in my mind typically come with talent. How do you do it, and the good news is here, I mean what we embedded with machine learning in the ServiceNow platform, you don't need an army of data scientists that are super hard to find, almost democratizing the ability to leverage machine learning. Second biggest one that when I talk to CIOs, it's lack of the right data, and they don't have the right data perhaps because they haven't yet digitized their processes, so that's a critical precursor. You got to digitize your processes to generate the right data to then feed the algorithms to get the outcome, but yeah machine learning I think is going to materially transform how we operate dramatically over the next three to five years. >> And, I mean, IT systems continue to get more complex. They in many cases becoming more of a black box. I wonder if I could get your thoughts on this. I mean, I remember reading Michael Lewis's book, Flash Boys, and he talked a lot about the flash crash, and nobody could explain it. They chalk it up to a computer glitch, and his premise was a computer glitch is computers are so complex we can't explain them anymore. >> Yeah. >> AI, machine learning, machine intelligence, going to make that even more complex and more of a black box. Is that a problem for us mortals? >> I think it's a problem, (laughs) for us mortals, but I think it's a problem and I'll tie it back to the transformation in human behavior. We're, I'll call it prototyping and rolling out and leveraging machine learning in our own enterprise, and one of the things we've observed is that us humans, us mortals as you call us, we need to know why, so if a machiner is making an algorithmic based recommendation or a decision we need to know why. And, our employees had a hard time accepting the ML based recommendation without knowing the why. So, we had to go back and rework that, and say how do we surface the why in the context of the recommendation and that got people over the hump. So I think it is a super important point where, as these algorithms get more and more sophisticated, our human brains, the way we interpret it, is we still need the why. >> Yeah, so you're trying to white box that, is what you're saying, which again is not easy. I often use the example of, a computer can tell me if I'm looking at a dog, or I joke Silicone Valley if you watch Silicone Valley >> Yeah yeah yeah, >> Hot dog or not hot dog. >> Hot dog, exactly. >> But, try to explain how you know it's a dog, it's hard >> It is challenging. >> To do that. >> Right. >> Especially if you think about data scientists, they are incredibly cerebral and way smarter than me and, they often have a hard time simplifying it enough where its consumable if you will. So, it is a challenge and I think, you know, it's something that'll evolve as we start to use more of it cause we'll just have to figure it out as an industry. >> I want to ask you about, one of the things that we're hearing so much about this conference is the neat things that you're doing around eradicating employee pain points and taking care of all those onerous, annoying, tedious tasks that we have to do, the filling out of paperwork and all of that sort of thing. What are sort of the next things you're thinking about, the other parts of the work day that are annoying for all of us when you sort of think ahead to the product lineup? >> I think, one of the things we do is figure out where you are and you know, digital transformation, right, is great, but it has so many different meanings depending on your company or your industry. So what we did internally is we actually gave definition and an answer to the question of how digital are you? So we take every process and a collection of processes to a department and bubble it up and so on forth, and we rate every process on how fast it is, how intelligent is, which is a measure of machine learning, and what's the experience we're delivering. And taking those three measures, we're able to come up with a score and more than anything it gave us a common language around the enterprise to say, how do we move this from a score of 50 to 70, how do we move this from a 60 to a 90, and which processes are most important to move first, second and third, right, and without that it gets really hard because digital transformation can just feel like this abstract concept and as business leaders, we do better when we have measurement. And once we have a number and a target and a goal, it's easier to get people aligned to that. So, that's been helpful for us as well on a change management aspect. >> So true. Coach K, you guys always have great outside guests come in and speak at your CIO Decisions Conference, I mean Robert Gates is one that, you know, I mean as much as you've accomplished in your life you haven't accomplished nearly as much as that guy. >> Yeah. >> Very humbling. Coach K was your, one of your guests this week, you host that event. >> I do. >> Share with us some of the, some of the learnings from Coach K. >> We had Coach K, Duke's basketball coach, I would argue best coach, best basketball coach >> I'm a Tarheel. >> Sorry, Tarheel here. >> Yeah exactly, Dean Smith. >> We had a couple in the audience- >> He said he's no Dean Smith the other day, (Rebecca laughs) well you know I don't know. >> And I am a college hoops junkie so for me, it was a massive treat. I just wanted to talk to him about so many games and things like that. But he, he really gave a great talk about just how to be a better leader, how to constantly be learning and applying yourself. I mean he's 71 years old and how he needs, he talked about how he had to reinvent himself at least ten times, he's been coaching for 42 years. To meet the players where they are, and changing himself. And every season, the day after the season ends, having a meeting with his managers saying, what do we need to change? And it could be they just won the national championship. So, never resting on his laurels, constantly learning, and he had really interesting anecdotes about when he coached the U.S. Olympic team, and the difference of 18-year-olds right out of high school versus these are the superstars of the NBA, massive egos, and one of the interesting things, he said so many interesting things I could keep going on but just, you know, he said don't leave your ego at the door. Bring your ego, cause that what makes you great. I need you to have that ego Kobe when you're taking that last second shot cause that's what makes you, you. But, also what he spent a lot of time is getting them aligned on values. Here's the core values that which we are going to operate as a team and that are going to allow us to be successful. And I think that leadership lesson applies to any team. He applied it in a very difficult environment while millions of people are watching but, and he talked about how he took that collection of individuals and made them a unit, and that was super powerful. >> Yeah, he coached the first dream team which was Magic, >> Yeah I think he's coached four or five, and >> and I think Byrd might have been hurt but he played, >> yeah. And how he would just >> and Jordan I mean that, try and bring that eclectic mix together. >> And then to hear, have someone be so, you know, I've done all these things, and then be articulate enough to be able to say, and this is what I did >> Yeah and just super humble >> this is how I brought out the best in people. >> Super humble and just, again, constant learning right, I mean John our CEO talks about be a learning animal. I think Coach K embodied that in spades. >> West Point grad too, right, with a lot of discipline >> Yeah. >> That's right, yeah, yeah. >> in his background and >> for sure, >> and it's really inspirational. >> And then he talked about that, that's where he learned a lot of his leadership lessons. >> Really, yeah? >> At West Point. >> Well, Chris it's been so fun talking to you we could, maybe we should get Coach K on with you. A little like, Mike Krzyzewski, yeah >> That would be a treat for me, you and me could talk about Duke Tarheels. >> Yeah, well okay, alright, if you insist. >> We could bring John Wooden into the greatest coaches ever conversation in fairness >> We could, we could. >> to the wizard of Westwood I mean. >> Cool, well thank you. >> Chris, thanks again for coming on. I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge '18 coming up just after this. (techno music)

(orchestral music) >> Hi I'm Peter Burris, chief research officer of Wikibon, and welcome to another CUBE conversation. Today, we're speaking with Chris Bedi, who's the CIO of ServiceNow. Chris, welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you. >> Chris, ServiceNow is on a tear. And I won't spend a lot of time talking about Service Now or what it was, but it's importance at the context, because the job of the CIO at ServiceNow is strongly influenced by the demands being placed on your function. Tell us a little bit about Service Now. >> So ServiceNow, we are a rapidly-growing company, growing at about 40% per year. We're approximately 6,000 employees, and we're a B2B software company. So we transform the way work gets done, drive efficiency and productivity of employees. And we have cloud services for IT, for security, for customer service, and HR, as well as an incredibly powerful platform where people innovate and develop custom applications to drive efficiency within their organizations. >> Now, ServiceNow is an example of a company that's very much helping to transform the industry. Now, at Wikibon we like to talk about it, to define digital businesses, a business that treats its data as a strategic asset. Certainly more than its competitors. How does ServiceNow look at data, at the assets surrounding data, including software? And how does ServiceNow think about digital transformation itself, as a company that is, in many respects, natively digital? >> So the way we think about digital transformation. You mentioned data as an asset. It's incredibly important. Where we see enterprises struggling is, not having the right data. So I think in order to treat data as an asset, you need to start with digitizing your processes so you get the data. I can't count how many times I've been in a room with a bunch of smart data scientists, we want to use data to go solve something, the first step is getting the data, and that's often where it falls down. So it starts with digitizing every single process within the enterprise, so you can capture all that data. Now, we are a digital company, we're a cloud-first company. But we have the privilege of having a lot of data that we capture in our cloud operations. We absolutely leverage that data to help our customers in their journey. Approximately a year ago, we came out with something called ServiceNow benchmarks, which allows our customers to benchmark their performance for key processes, key performance indicators, against their cohort of industries and companies their size, all in an effort to help them improve. And increasingly, we're bringing machine learning into that, so that we can be more prescriptive, to help our customers get the business outcomes that they're trying to achieve. >> So you're not only doing a better job of instrumenting processes, digitizing processes, capturing the data through all the different technologies that are available, but you're also finding new streams of value out of that data. >> Absolutely, and I think that's the key. Whether it's an internal use case, external, meaning to your partners or your customers, how are you leveraging data to build intelligence into every process and every decision? And I think, couple of years ago, people would talk about machine learning and AI as if it were science fiction. It's here and now in the enterprise. And I think companies that are able to take advantage of, to use your words, data as an asset, and build machine learning capabilities, and build recommendations in to help people make better decisions, and, in the future, automate those decisions, are going to start to outpace their competitors. >> So let's talk a little bit about some of the things that an IT organization has to do if it's going to support the transformation. But let's start by the current state. You've been in IT for a while. What does ServiceNow's IT organization do as a consequence of its role, that most IT organizations, in your experience, don't do? >> Sure, so we do all the same things every IT organization does. Keep the core infrastructure running that supports all of our internal operations. We do, at ServiceNow, keep cloud operations separate from the CI organizations, and that division is on purpose. But we manage all the internal operations, and drive all the outcomes of that. One of the things we're doing is leveraging data as an asset and really trying to drive velocity through every single process. How do we increase the speed of our business operations? But not enough to be faster, how do we be more effective? And that gets back to that, how do we build intelligence into every decision, and every KPI that people look at? Recommendations associated with that. And last but certainly not least, how do we create great experiences for our employees? And this is not just, you know, hey, we've have beautiful screens to look at. I believe that the right experiences drive the right behavioral and economic outcomes. We had a very simple example of, as a software company, it's very important for us to file patents. But we had a clunky, cumbersome process to do so, and by digitizing the process, getting the right data, re-imagining it to be a great experience, we saw an 82% increase in the number of patent applications filed, without any top-down management edicts. So, just a small use case, but just an example that the right experience can drive the right outcomes you're looking for. >> So I want to unpack this a little bit, if I may, this issue of speed and flexibility. >> Sure. >> And especially the role that automation's going to play, 'cause as you were talking, it suddenly dawned on me, in many respects, what we're talking about is almost agile automation. Automation, that nonetheless has the plasticity associated with it, so that you can change it in a way that it will naturally reconfigure, to ensure that you get the speed, but you also get the intelligence and the surety that you're doing the right things. Talk about how that tension between speed and doing things right gets resolved in your organization. >> Sure, I mean, at ServiceNow, at the pace that we're growing, we can't afford to be slow and perfect. So culturally, what we've built into the organization is, at least within IT, fast and almost right beats slow and perfect ten times out of ten. So that's really what we try to instill in our people, which is, it's better to take a risk, move fast, and learn as we automate, and you know, with the right balance of flexibility as we move forward, because we just can't simply afford to sit back and wait for the perfect solution. And a lot of that builds right back into that analytics construct. So once we automate something, how do we judge the effectiveness of that automation? So we heavily do process mining on each one of our business process, to look at effectiveness of the automation we just put in. >> Great term, process mining. Explain a little bit. >> Process mining, to me, is taking a digitized process, because you can't process mine something that's manual. Once it's digitized, taking all the signals that that digitized process throws off, so you can look at the quality, you can look at the cycle time, the effectiveness of people interacting with that process, and then leveraging all of those analytics, putting data science on top of it, to come out with recommendations for how to be better. >> How is your executive team responding to some of the changes that are being driven by IT? 'Cause it sounds like IT at ServiceNow is empirical, it's opportunistic, it's highly iterative, it has to be if it's going to do these agile process mining types of things. Is the business in sync, are you oscillating at the same frequencies? Are you moving faster than the business, slower that the business? How do you keep that balanced? >> I think I'm privileged to be part of an incredible executive leadership team at Service Now. And being a digital first company, this is a natural part of the vocabulary, and I contrast that with past companies which were more supply chain oriented companies where the CIO would have had to put on a much more change management, have to convince people that this is the way things are going. At ServiceNow, I think it's a shared mindset of automation, and experiences, and driving machine learning is absolutely the way companies are going to separate themselves from the competition. So it is a lot of, can't move fast enough. >> As technology, especially data, gets embedded, or information gets embedded more deeply into business activities, and more deeply into business culture, and decision-making pathways, a lot more people are going to lay claim to that data, ownership of that data, management of that data. We've heard a number of different titles emerge over the course of the last number of years, like the Chief Digital Officer. How do you foresee or envision the role the CIO, the role the CDO, working together? >> I have a personal opinion on this which may not be what industry says, but my view is that if a company has a Chief Digital Officer they either have a CIO who's not stepping up to the plate with the transformation that that company needs to drive, or they do have a CIO who's capable of doing it, they just don't know it. Because I don't view the jobs as all that different, and I think the right CIOs need to step up and lead the transformation, 'cause if not the CIO, then who? >> Yeah, exactly, so your observation is that CIOs either need to step up and do this, or find another job where somebody's willing to operate at a slower speed with less strategic orientation towards data. >> Absolutely. >> How does a CIO get themselves heard without annoying everybody? >> Art versus science, but I would say it starts with job number one of the CIO, which is what the job was, call it 20 years ago, which is making sure the core infrastructure of the company worked. And unless that's working, and it's in good shape, it's almost as if the CIO doesn't have that permission to step up and do all the transformation stuff. So, get that part of the house in order. And then I think it's a bit of just, you've got to take responsibility for more than just the standard IT stuff. Taking responsibility for business outcomes. How do you drive lead velocity? How do you drive sales rep productivity? How do I make my financial close more efficient? So really partnering with the other stakeholders around the company to say, "What business outcomes do we need to drive "to achieve our strategic objectives?" And owning them. >> So, I've worked with other CIOs and senior leadership teams at large companies who said, for example, that they actually started taking advantage of opportunities to meet directly with customers. See what customers are talking about, see how their technologies are impacting customer experience. I would presume that you and your team are out in the field at least some of the time, better understanding how your portfolio is improving the effectiveness and the efficiency of ServiceNow in front of customers. Are you doing those types of things? >> Absolutely, and I actually used to be a customer of ServiceNow. I've been a customer of ServiceNow for over a decade before I joined the company, so it's great to be here. And internally, we do act as customer zero. So we have a very healthy relationship with our product teams, where we want to give them that, you know, candid, constructive feedback. Everything the products are doing great, and here's ideas perhaps on where we could do a little bit better. And in my role, I also have the privilege of talking with a lot of our customers, peer CIOs, who are all trying to go through the same digital transformation journey, and exchanging ideas on how our platform can help do that. >> So the IT, or the CIO and the IT organization has historically purchased things, and has therefore set up some adversarial relations, largely managed and administered by procurement, and procurement processes. "Get 5% out of this contract." When we start thinking about ServiceNow's relationship with customers, you're not providing a product, you're actually providing the outcome. And, as digital first company, or as a cloud first company, I would presume that you also are working with suppliers that are providing those outcomes for you. That is difficult, to establish that rapport with a procurement mindset. You need more of a strategic vendor mindset. Would you agree, and what do you think that means if you do? >> I would absolutely agree. And, you know, with that strategic vendor mindset comes shared outcomes. And you've heard our CEO, John Donahoe, talk about this in terms of an increased focus that we have on customer success. We know that our customers' success is our success, and really, with the mindset of, we need to be a valued partner, a trusted advisor, and have shared responsibility to help our customer base achieve the outcomes, you know, which form the investment thesis for them, you know, looking at ServiceNow. And we look at it the same way internally with our strategic partners, because as these services get embedded in the way we do business, it can't be a transactional relationship. This has got to be a long-term partnership, where we're driving innovation, and driving business outcomes. >> As your business thinks about where it's going to go, how are they factoring the role that your organization plays, the asset that your organization represents, the strategic capabilities of your organization, in their strategic plans? Are you sitting on, you know, the strategy committee? Are you talking to the board periodically? What role are you playing in the overall portfolio of the company, as it thinks about where it's going to be? >> Sure, I would say, all of the above. And as CIO, and I'll genericize it a bit, so it's not just ServiceNow, but I think that as organizations are moving forward, automation, and scale, and machine learning, are going to be increasingly important aspects of a business. How fast can you move? How much scale do you have? How smart is your business? What are your experiences with your customer, and how are you leveraging all the analytics that those experiences create? So I think CIOs have to be part of those conversations, and I do have the privilege of being part of those at ServiceNow. >> So Chris, great answers. I've asked all the questions. Is there a one last point you want to make? >> Just that I think now, more than ever, it's an incredibly fun time to be a CIO. >> I agree. >> Incredibly challenging, for sure. The plethora of innovation out there. And I think that the technologies have evolved from, you know, white papers and ideas to "It's here and now." So I think as a CIO, it's never been more fun, more challenging, more responsibility on us to deliver outcomes for the enterprise, but that's what makes it fun. >> If you step up. >> If you step up. >> Once again, Chris Bedi, thank you very much. ServiceNow CIO, really appreciate you being here on the CUBE and telling us a little bit about how you're performing while you're helping the company transform. >> Thank you. >> This has been Peter Burris, Chief Research Officer of Wikibon. Thank you very much for listening in on our CUBE conversation. (orchestral music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge17. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> We're back. This is Dave Vellante with Jeff Frick. Chris Bedi is here, he's the CIO of ServiceNow. Chris, good to see you again. >> Good to see you as well. >> Yeah, so, lot going on this week, obviously. You said you're getting pulled in a million different directions. One of those, of course, is the CIO event, CIO Decisions, it's something you guys host every year. I had the pleasure of attending parts of it last year. Listened to Robert Gates and some other folks, which was great. What's happened this year over there? >> So, CIO Decisions, it's really where we bring together our forward thinking executives. We keep it intimate, about a hundred, because really it's about the dialogue. Us all learning from each other. It really doesn't matter, the industry, I think we're all after the same things, which is driving higher levels of automation, increase the pace of doing business, and innovating at our companies. So we had Andrew McAfee, MIT research scientist, really helping push the boundaries in our imagination on where machine learning and predictive analytics could go. And then we had Daniel Pink talking about his latest book, To Sell is Human. And really as CIOs, we often find ourselves selling new concepts, new business models, new processes, new analytics, new ways of thinking about things. And so, really trying to help, call it exercise, our selling muscle, if you will. Because we have to sell across, up, down, and within our own teams, and that is a big part of the job. Because as we move into this new era, I think the biggest constraint is actually between our own ears. Our inability to imagine a future where machines are making more decisions than humans, platforms are doing more work on behalf of humans. Intellectually, we know we're headed there, but he really helped to bring it home. >> Well, you know, it's interesting, we talk about selling and the CIOs. Typically IT people aren't known as sales people, although a couple years ago I remember at one of the Knowledges, Frank Slootman sort of challenged the CIO to become really more business people, and he predicted that more business people would become CIOs. So, do you consider yourself a sales person? >> I do. Selling people on a vision, a concept, the promise of automation. You know, technology, people fear it, right? You know, when you're automating people's work the fear and the uncertainty endowed, or what I call the organizational anti-bodies, start to come out. So you have to bust through that, and a large part of that is selling people on a promise of a better future. But, it's got to be real. It's got to be tied to real business outcomes with numbers. It can't be just a bunch of PowerPoint slides. >> So we always like to take the messaging from the main tent and then test it with the practitioners, and this year there's this sort of overall theme of working at lightspeed, you and I have talked about this, how does that resonate with CIOs and how do you put meaning behind that? 'Cause, you know, working at lightspeed, it's like, ooh that sounds good, but how do you put meat on that bone? >> So, the way I think about working at lightspeed is three dimensions, velocity, intelligence, and experience. And velocity is how fast is your company operating? I read a study that said 40% of Fortune 500 companies are going to disappear in the next 10 years. That's almost half, right? But I think what's going to separate the winners from the losers is the pace at which they can adapt and transform. And, with every business process being powered by IT platforms, I think CIOs and IT are uniquely positioned to explicitly declare ownership of that metric and drive it forward. So velocity, hugely important. Intelligence. Evolving from the static dashboards we know today, to real time insights delivered in context that actually help the human make decisions. And, BI in analytics as we know it today, needs to evolve into a recommendation engine, 'cause why do we develop BI in analytics? To make decisions, right? So why can't the platform, and it can, is the short answer, with the ability to rapidly correlate variables and recognize complex patterns, give recommendations to the humans, and I would argue, take it a step further, make decisions for the humans. ServiceNow did a study that said 70% of CIOs believe machines will make more accurate decisions than humans, now we just got to get the other 30% there. And then on experience, I think the right experience changes our behavior. I think we in IT need to be in the business of creating insanely great customer and employee experiences. Too often we lead with the goal of cost reduction or efficiency, and I think that's okay, but if we lead with the goal of creating great experiences, the costs and the inefficiencies will naturally drop out. You can't have a great experience and have it be clunky and slow, it's just impossible. >> And it's interesting on the experience because the changing behavior is the hardest part of the whole equation. And I always think back to kind of getting people off an old solution. People used to say, for start ups, you got to be 10x better or 1/10th the cost. 2x, 3x is not enough to get people to make the shift. And so to get the person to engage with the platform as opposed to firing off the text, or firing off an email, or picking up the phone, it's got to be significantly better in terms of the return on their investment. So now they get that positive feedback loop and, ah, this is a much better way to get work done. >> It has to. And we can't, you know, bring down the management hammer and force people to do things. It's just not the way, you know, people work. And very simple example of an experience driving the right behavioral outcome, so ServiceNow is a software company, very important for us to file patents. The process we had was clunky and cumbersome. You know, we're not perfect at ServiceNow either. So we re-imagined that process, made it a mobile first experience built on our platform, of course. But by simply doing that, there was no management edict, you have to, no coercion, if you will, we saw an 83% increase in the number of patent applications filed by the engineers. So the right experience can absolutely give you the right desired economic behavior. >> You talked about 70% of CIOs believe that machines will make better decisions than humans. We also talked about Andrew McAfee, who wrote a book with Eric Brynjolfsson. And in that book, The Second Machine Age, they talked about that the greatest chess player in the world, when the supercomputer beat Garry Kasparov, he actually created this contest and they beat the supercomputer with a combination of man and other supercomputers. So do you see it as machine, sort of, intelligence augmenting human intelligence, or do you actually see it as machines are going to take over most of the decisions. >> So, I actually think they are going to start to take over some basic decision making. The more complex ones, the human brain, plus a machine, is still a more, you know, advanced, right? Where it's better suited to make that decision. But I also think we need to challenge ourselves in what we call a decision. I think a lot of times, what we call a decision, it's not a decision. We're coming to the same conclusion over and over and over again, so if a computer looked at it, it's an algorithm. But in our brains, we think a human has to be involved and touch it. So I think it's a little bit, it'll challenge us to redefine what's actually a decision which is complex and nuanced, versus we're really doing the same thing over and over again. >> Right, and you're saying the algorithm is a pattern that repeats itself and leads to an action that a machine can do. >> Yeah. >> It doesn't require intuition >> And we don't call that a decision anymore. >> Right, right. So, in thinking about you gave us sort of the dimensions of lightspeed, what are some of the new metrics that will emerge as a result of this thinking? >> Yeah, I don't think any of the old metrics go away. I'll talk about a few. You know, in lightspeed, working at lightspeed, we need to start measuring, for one, back on that velocity vector, what is the percentage of processes in your company that have a cycle time of zero, or near zero. Meaning it just happens instantaneously. We can think of loads of examples in our consumer life. Calling a car with Uber, there's no cycle time on that process, right? So looking at what percentage of your processes have a cycle time of zero. How much work are you moving to the machines? What percentage of the work is the platform proactively executing for you? Meaning it just happens. I also think in an IT context of percentage of self healing events, where the service never goes down because it's resilient enough and you have enough automation and intelligence. But there are events, but the infrastructure just heals itself. And I think, you know, IT itself, we've long looked at IT as a percentage of revenue. I think with all of the automation and cost savings and efficiencies we drive throughout the enterprise, we need to be looking at IT as a margin contribution vehicle. And when we change that conversation, and start measuring ourselves in terms of margin, I think it changes the whole investment thesis, in IT. >> So that's interesting. Are you measured on margin contribution? >> We're doing that right now. I don't, if an IT organization is waiting for the CFO or CEO to ask them about their margin contribution, they're playing defense. I think IT needs to proactively measure all of it's contributions and express it in terms of margin. 'Cause that's the language the CEO, and COO, and CFO are talking about, so meet them in a language that they understand better. >> So how do you do, I mean, you certainly can create some kind of conceptual value flow. IT supports this sort of business process and this business process drives this amount of revenue or margin. >> So I stay away from revenue, because I think any time IT stands up and says, we're driving revenue, it's really hard. Because there's so many external and internal factors that contribute to that. So we more focus on automation, in terms of hours saved, expressing and dollarizing that. Hard dollars, that we're able to take out of the organization and then bubbling that into an operating margin number. >> Okay, so you sort of use the income statement below the revenue line to guide you and then you fit into that framework. >> Absolutely. >> When you talk to other CIOs about this, do they say, hey, that sounds really interesting, how do I get started on that, or? >> I think it resonates really well, because, again, IT as percentage of revenue is an incredibly incomplete metric to measure our contribution. With everything going digital, you want to pour more money into technology. I mean, studies have shown, and Andrew McAfee talked about this, over the last 50, 100 years, the companies that have thrived have poured more, disproportionally more, into technology and innovation than their competitors. So, if we only measure the cost side of the equation we're doing ourselves a disservice. >> And so, how do you get started on this path, I mean, let's call this path, sort of, what we generally defined as lightspeed, measured on margin, how do you get started on that? >> First step is the hardest. But, it's declaring that your going to do it. So we've come up with a framework, you know, that maps at a process level, at a department level, and at a company level, where are we on this journey to lightspeed? If lightspeed is the finish line, where are we? And I define three stages, manual, automated, cloud, before you get to lightspeed. And then, using those same three dimensions of velocity, intelligence, and experience, to tell you where you are. And, the very first thing we did was baseline all of our business processes, every single one, and mapped it. But once you have it mapped on that framework then you can say, how do we advance the ball to the next level? And, it's not going to magically happen overnight. This is hard work. It's going to happen one process at a time, right? But pretty soon everything starts to get faster and I think things will start to really accelerate. >> When you think about, sort of, architecting IT, at ServiceNow versus some other company, I mean, you come into ServiceNow as the CIO, everything runs on ServiceNow, that is part of the mandate, right? But that's not the mandate at every company, now increasingly may be coming that way in a lot of companies, but how is your experience at ServiceNow differ from the some of the traditional G2000? >> Probably the unique part about being the CIO at ServiceNow is actually really fun, in that I get to be customer zero in that I implement our products before all of our customers. You know, get to sit down with the product managers, discuss real business problems that all of our customers are facing, and hopefully be their voice inside the four walls of service now, and be the strategic partner to the product organization. Now implementing everything, our goal is to be the best possible implementation of ServiceNow on the planet. And that's not just demonstrated by go lives, it's demonstrated by, again, the economic and business outcomes we're deriving from using the platform. So, that part is fun, challenging, and hard work all at the same time. >> So how's Jakarta lookin'? >> Fantastic. We're super excited about everything that's coming out, whether it's the communities on customer service, or our software asset management. That's been a pain, right, for IT organizations for a long time, which is these inbound software audits, from other companies, and you're responding to them and it's a fire drill. In my mind, our software asset management transforms software audits from a once a year, twice a year event, to always-on monitoring, where you're just fixing it the whole time. And it's not an event anymore. I mean, the intelligence that we're baking into the platform now, super exciting around the machine learning and the predictive analytics concepts, we have more analytics than we had before, I mean there's just so much in there, that's just exciting. We're already using it, I can't wait for our customers to get a hold of it. >> Well, CJ this morning threw out a number of 30-plus percent performance improvement. I had said to myself, your saying that with conviction, that's 'cause you guys got to be running it yourselves. >> Yeah, we are. >> What are you seeing there? >> That's not a trivial number, and I think the product teams have done a great job really digging in and makin' sure our platform operates at lightspeed. >> One of the things that Jeff and I have been talking about this week, and really this is your passion here, is adoption, how do you get people to stop using all these other tools like email, and kind of get them to use the system? >> I think, showing them the promise of what it can bring. I think it's different conversations at different levels. I think, too, an operator, someone who's using the email to manage their work, they're hungry for a different solution. Life, working, and email, and managing your business that way, it's hard, right? To a mid-level manager, I think the conversation is maybe about the experience, how consumers of their service will be happier and more satisfied. At executive level, it gets maybe more into some of the economic outcomes, of doing it. Because implementing our platform, you know, you're going to burn some calories doing it, not a lot. Our time to value is really really quick, but still, it's a project and it's initiative and it's got to have an outcome tied to it. >> You know, Chris, as you're saying that it's always tough to be stuck kind of half way. You know, you're kind of on the tool internally and it's great. >> We don't use the word tool. >> Excuse me, not the tool. The app, the platform, actually. But then you still got external people that are coming at you through text, email, et cetera. I mean, is part of the vision, and maybe it's already there, I'm not as familiar with the parts I should be, in terms of enabling kind of that next layer of engagement with that next layer of people outside the four walls, to get more of them in it as well. Because the half-pregnant stage is almost more difficult because you're going back and forth between the two. >> And our customer service product does a lot of that. If you look at what Abhijit showed today, which is fantastic, Communities is another modality to start to interact with people. Certainly, we have Connect, part of our platform, is a collaboration app within the overall platform, so you can chat, just like you would with any consumer app, in terms of chatting capabilities, and that mobile first experience. We're thinking about other modalities too. Should you be able to talk to ServiceNow, just like you talk to Alexa, and converse with ServiceNow, Farrell touched on this a little bit, through natural language, right? We all know it's coming, and it's there, it's just pushing in that direction. >> How about the security piece? You know, Shawn shared this morning, you guys are well over year in now, and he talked about that infamous number of 200 plus days-- >> Chris: Nine months, yeah. >> Yeah, compressing that. Are you seeing that internally in your own? >> We are. We use Shawn's product, we're a happy customer. The vulnerability management, the security incident response, and very very similar results. And just like the customer who was on stage said, go live in Iterate, and that's exactly what we did. Everyone has a vulnerability management tool, like a Qualys, that's feeding in. Bring in all those Qualys alerts, our platform will help you normalize them and just start to reduce the level of chaos for the SOC and IT operations. Then make it better, then drive the automation, so we're seeing very similar benefits. >> How do you manage the upgrade side, we've been asking a lot of customers this week in the upgrade cycle. Some say, ah, I'll do in minus one just to sort of let the thing bake a little bit. You guys are in plus one. How do you manage that in production, though? >> Sure, so we upgrade before our customers, and that's part of our job, right? To make sure we test it out before our customers. But I'll say something in general about enterprise software upgrades, which is, there is a cost to them and the cost is associated with business risk. You want to make sure you're not going to disrupt your business. There is some level of regression testing you just have to do. Now, strategies I think that would be wise are automating as much of that testing as you can, through a testing framework, which we're helping our customers do now. And I think with some legacy platforms, that was incredibly expensive and hard and you could never quite get there. Us being a modern cloud platform, you can actually get there pretty quickly to the point where the 80, 90% of your regression testing is automated and you're doing that last 10 to 20%. 'Cause at the end of the day, IT needs to make sure the enterprise is up and running, that's job number one. But that's a strategy we employ to make upgrades as painless as possible. >> That's got to be compelling to a lot of the customers that you talk to, that notion of being able to automate the upgrade process. >> For sure, it is. >> You're eliminating a lot of time and they count that as money. >> It is money, and automating regression testing, it's a decision and a strategy but the investment pays off very very quickly. >> Dave: So there's an upfront chunk that you have to do to figure out how to make that work? >> Just like anything worth doing. >> Dave: Yeah, right. >> Right? >> Excellent. What's left for you at the show? >> What's left for me? I love interacting with customers. I got to talk with a lot of CIOs at CIO Decisions. I actually enjoy walking through the partner pavilion and meeting a lot of our partners and seeing some of the innovation that their driving on the platform. And then just non-stop, I get ideas all day from meeting with customers. It's so fun. >> Dave: Chris, thanks very much for coming to theCube. >> Thank you. >> We appreciate seeing you again. >> Chris: Good seeing you. >> Alright, keep it right there everybody. Jeff and I will be back with our next guest. This is theCube, we're live from Knowledge17. We'll be right back.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the cute covering knowledge sixteen Brought to you by service. Now here your host, Dave, Alon and Jeffrey. >> Welcome back to knowledge. Sixteen. Everybody, This is the Cube, Cuba Silicon Angles Flagship program. We go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise We're here. This is Day two for us. Will be going wall to wall for three days. That knowledge sixteen hashtag No. Sixteen. Chris Beatty is Here's the CEO. Relatively new CEO. It's service now. Chris, Thanks for coming on the Cube. It's going to be here. So you are hosting the CEO Decisions event Yesterday >> I was an event. We had a lot of CEOs, a lot of energy in the room, you know, one of the main main themes. Wass. You know, technology change happens all the time, but really one of the leadership challenge is right and what courage is required of leaders to really break through the status quo and get to that next level. We talked a lot about the importance of getting the right culture right within it, and that's a and what it really means to have a service mindset right throughout the enterprise. And as our vocabulary becomes the same inside it and across all the departments, right, as a leader, how do you enact that change so really a lot about the human element, as opposed to, you know, the technology part of it? >> Yes. So a lot of discussions over the past several service now knowledge comes in one year, Frank said. He sort of threw down the gauntlet and CEOs. They have to be business leaders. No longer Is that just a technology roll? Others have come on. The Cuban said. Well, you know, CEOs role. They gotta choose. They're gonna choose a technical path or a business path or data path. Even Chief Date officer. What do you thoughts on the >> I mean, >> there's a >> lot of press about the role. The CEO, right? And if you go back years and anything from Seo's dead, it is a relevant right. It's going the way of the dodo bird. Teo CEOs Morse strategic than ever, disrupting and creating new business models. I think the answer is somewhere in between, and it's probably changes, you know, depending on the day of the week. Right. So CEOs have a base job which is running, you know, the technology infrastructure of any company running the applications. But I do agree with Frank in terms of CEOs up, leveling their responsibilities and taking on the responsibility for more. I could tell you what I take responsibility for, right And yes, it's I t. But the overall velocity of our business. How fast can we run with everything Hiring employees, closing our books. Every single process in the company is powered by an IT platform, right? And so high tea is really in a unique position, and it has a bird's eye view of the organization to really help. Dr Velocity and Velocity is everything. How can you outflank your competition? The other thing I see think CEOs need to take responsibility for is maximizing the productivity of every single employee in the company. Right now, if you take that on, you start to look at things a little bit differently. It's not about projects, it's really about outcomes. And you know what measurable things are we delivering? And last and certainly not least, I think, the responsibility for customer experiences again. Customer experiences are powered by platform CEOs have the ability that influence every single one of those experiences and make it great and more and more as we look towards the future with things like automated bots and augmented reality customer. Your actions are going to become human to platform, and that's going to increase its relevance in that >> so and thinking about CIA imperatives of, you know, the bromide of eighty percent of the dollars we spend is on keeping the lights on twenty percent of innovation of That's a real number, No, but nobody seems to argue with it. Yeah, you >> hear that number a lot, but I think the good organizations actually do measure that number so they actually they will know what their number is and that service. Now we've done a lot of work, so our ratio is actually sixty percent run the business forty percent on innovation, and we're driving that down. So it's uneven. Fifty fifty split. I think that where you don't want to go is spending too little time on what I call the utility computing because that's the fabric that gets work done right. It's everything from networking and email and all those basic services you still need to have. Those aren't going anywhere collaboration services. >> I'd like to split it up into a little finer grain. I wonder if you could comment run the business grow the business transformed the business. Now maybe you're maybe you're always transforming your business, I don't know. But in >> terms of have to be >> in terms of but specific spending on initiatives to transform the business is that a reasonable, reasonable way to look at your portfolio was >> absolutely right. And I think if you're not doing things that transform your business, you're you're not acting with enough urgency. So my view on it is identify the big rocks right that we need to knock down, make sure we make room for those, even if it's at the cost of the grow or run part of the budget. Because if you're not getting those things done again, back to that getting left behind things were moving too quick. You got to keep pace. So make room for the transformation somehow, and that means squeezing every bit of automation that you can. How did the run part of the business, which is something I've used service now for in my past. I used to be a customer. I bought the platform twice over before I joined the company, and we did it a lot, and I'm doing it now, now that I'm at service now, >> that's one of Frank's requirements to become a CEO. I think. How >> do you >> measure that? That split. You said you're sixty today. Like to be a fifty, a lot of CEOs going. I have no idea how to measure that. I look at my projects are, but guess how do you do it? >> And it's tough we actually use. Not surprisingly, are Ownit Financial Management module to do that. And so technology's technology would we take all of our G L data and we map it to a taxonomy of business services in certain business services we know are not transformative, but they're a run part of the business, and we do that mapping once than every month. We can look at actuals against it. We can look at our unit costs, but the other begin put his projects right, which is again also in our platform, so able to look at those two things together and data driven segmentation of our spend too many times I see ninety organizations. They do it as one time exercise as part of annual planning. Then they don't look at it again until the next year. Annual planning. But there's a lot of runway in between and decisions we're making every day, which you should be making based upon data. But instead you're doing on perhaps nine months ago information. >> So you essentially categorize the business process, the business services as run or Growler training farm and on an ongoing basis. >> Absolutely. And you do the math and the most dynamic part of it, his projects. So every one of our projects, when we look at our portfolio, we look at our project portfolio by business areas, the sales marketing HR finance so on. But then we also do categorize our portfolio by Is this just sort of keep the lights on activity? But it's a project we still need to dio, or is it growing the business in somewhere? Is it truly helping us transform the way we operate >> on reasonable people? Khun, sit down and agree on sort of what those look like and >> short, and we also adjust accordingly. Also, do a top down allocation of what percentage do we want to go into each bucket, and that's not the same for each area because different parts of our business are different maturity cars, different pressures on them. I wouldn't want to be very transfer meitiv with RGL, right? That's not an area I want to innovate on. But with our sales and marketing organization, absolutely. We want to be in high innovation. Hi, experimentation, whatever we can do to help dry. >> So that's a top down bottom up exercise with the executive team says Okay, >> sideways inputs from everywhere. You know, one of the things I think CEOs it is a coming to fund CEOs to dio is manage spend. But more importantly, where people spending their time right, that's inarguably a fixed costs. We have a set of people where they spending their time and are they spending their time on the right things? And if you get that right, the rest could get a lot easier. >> So Secretary Gates last night speaking Teo, you know, maybe roughly one hundred CEOs and your your CEO decisions Conference gave the thumbs down on consensus management, and I sense just a little bit of discomfort in the room because CEOs is a hard job. But you serve a lot of different masters if you will, and as well you've got heads of application development you got, you know, architects, you got the business to serve, and so there's a lot of consensus building. And so he got questions on How do you do it? What was your reaction to that? Your colleagues, You know, which >> one was your science? They asked him a question. And because he said Consensus building doesn't work into an outside person looking in, it would seem like by nature. Everything in the government is consensus oriented. He had a lot of examples actually, where he did things against his own team's conviction, but he felt like that change was necessary. So it's two things I think Dr Gates has dealt with monumental organizations, right? Texas A and M is the smallest organization of those the CIA and the D. O D. Department of Defense has three million people, so the scale is unlike what most enterprise CEOs are leaders have seen. So when when he talked about not being consensus oriented, he viewed it as a requirement, and I actually agree with him. If you're trying to disrupt the status quo, you can't be consensus oriented. I don't think you'LL move fast enough, and most of time you won't get very far. So I think it's incumbent upon leaders to be the ones that break the status quo and say, We've got to change. And But what? What Dr Gates did describe is that if people are informed about why, from their leader enough, even if they disagree, they can get on board. And he brought up numerous examples of where he had conversations with Congress and people within the d. O d about change. He wanted to drive, and even though they were very opposed to it, they got on board because they intellectually could understand why. And over time, he won over hearts and minds >> about your priorities. So you come in relatively new tow service now. So first of all first impressions, any any surprises, pleasant or unpleasant? And what your priorities. >> So coming in no surprises. I had had a lot of admiration for the company as a customer, and now that I'm here, I love the culture. The culture is very execution oriented, get stepped on, very customer focused. You know, when we when we talk about our go to market, we really talk a lot about what's going to be most important for our customers. What pressures are customers under what problems can be solved for him? It's really not a discussion around squeezing. You know, the maximum margin out of each customer, which I think is fantastic way drive pretty hard. But but we're also very team oriented culture, so that's been great. My priorities at service. Now, when I think about my six strategic themes that I'm focused on growth eyes hugely important that service now. Right now, it's a lot of time I spend, fails and marketing effectiveness and innovation. And what can we do to drive, help, drive growth from a night perspective? Working with our partner organization, helping our partners? I do business with us easier things like partner portals and things like that. Ah, velocity. I mentioned earlier driving velocity through every department at the Enterprise at service now and really maniacally going after business process automation. And the great thing is, we have a platform that makes it easy, right and Ivax full access to that platform. So self service catalogs and knowledge base, but really going department by department saying, How do we do that? Analytics. Obviously we want to continue to measure and improve our business. But we're starting to do a lot more with Predictive Analytics, right? And how can we use data to really predict next best actions in a variety of arenas? Uh, security is the gift that keeps on giving for every CEO never ending. It's >> just one of those things that'll Teo you got, you >> got, you got to accept it and then really focus on team, right? I think talent and team and culture hugely important. You could have the best plans, you know, on paper. But if you don't have the right talent and culture within your team to get it done, I don't think you're getting very far operational. Rigor is a big one for me and a Metrix based approach to managing our business and driving outcomes. So when I look at projects that I execute for the organization on time and on budget, that's fine. That's table stakes. Really. What I'm after is on benefit, right? Are we delivering the benefits that we said we were going to get? And last, but certainly not least a part of my job is now on now. What? What we mean by now? On now is me being our best in first customer. And that's a very strategic level, working with product management to help them, you know, with roadmap features and things like that that I think all of our CEO's would need also upgrading early. So hopefully we can iron out the bugs before all of our customers and then consuming our own your products and implement it internally, learning the lessons within our four walls that we can inform our fields they could help our customers. >> How about on benefit? What percentage of projects are on benefit? That's another one of these things. Seventy percent of the projects fail. It was a number one on the market research, even >> that even that's a problem that fail is identified as not being on time or on. But right now, I view that is interesting but not compelling. Are you delivering the outcome? And so we're early. I've only been at service now six months, but I know in the past, through rigor and even making it a metric that's important have gotten to an eighty five percent hit rate on benefit. Certainly you could do better, but some of the benefits we have realised, with our platform eighty three percent increase in productivity. Leveraging R R R R application, but examples outside of Ice D, where we've eliminated forty five hundred hours of work from our financial close by putting email and manual checklist on your platform. Eighty five percent reduction in time that we spent hours spent on on boarding new employees. I mean, the list goes on and on, but it's a requirement in my organisation. When you're doing a project, you gotta have an outcome and set an aspirational outcome. Because if you talk about ten percent improvement and anything, that's sort of easy to get it. If you tell yourself I need to get a seventy percent improvement, it forces you to really rethink things and think differently. And I think that's our job. Is leaders to set those set the bar really high and then sharp teams have the resources to go after it. >> So even if you're late and over budget, if you get that, I didn't say that I later over, but I was asked, so that's got three. So that's a that's a prerequisite to be on time and on budget, >> and we're not perfect, but our target is to be ninety five percent on time, ninety five percent on budget, knowing you're gonna have five percent, you know, wiggle room and ninety five percent on benefit. >> What is on. So when you talk to the board, switch topics about security, what should be on the CEO's checklist for communicating to the board about security? So So >> I think it's really about risk, right? And what risks do we think we have? What's the likelihood of those risks? And what's the plan to mitigate those risk? I don't think security should be talked about in a This is Donner. That's done because you're never really done right. It's risk management, and the bad guys continue to innovate faster than the good guys. So what's your current security posture? What's the state of your risks and how are you mitigating them and in what time frame you know the stuff about? You know, we have a deal. P. We have ideas. We have I ps. I mean, the list of acronyms is interesting at a more tactical level, but at a board level, I think it's really risk management. >> So I promise I wanted before Ortiz talk about mitigating risk. But is there a place for a narrative that says you'd only mitigate so much? You're going to get penetrated. It's how you respond absolutely is critical. And I can I, as the CEO can lead that response or whomever is the >> appropriate person? I think you you have to do everything you possibly can Teo secure your perimeter. But it's known that you are going to get breach. Just a fact. So then it really becomes How quickly can you identify the fact that you have anomalous activity happening on your network of data? How quickly can you mitigate it? And in the past, when I was at various sign JD issue, a lot of that was manual right You have. You know, you have a piece of bad malware on the Enterprise. You may even know what assets. Um, it's on where you think you know. Usually I think you know, and then you really find out later where it's gone. But tying those assets to risk meaning what? Business services, it is it my CFO's laptop? Or is it? You know, the the you know, the person in AP. So you treated a little bit differently. And is it the infrastructure that supports our badge reader? Or is it our ear piece system? Right, So that's the missing piece. And I do thank our security organization and our our business unit, Shawn, because they've actually built a solution. Help solve that where you can go from security incident. Piece of Alberto Asset to Business service to employ within minutes, which that used to be half a day, at least half a day is a long time in a security incident. >> Yeah, so there's that magic number of whatever it is two hundred five days to detect a penetration? Yes, very. Do you feel like your organization can compress that? Is that a viable metric to be focused on? >> It's certainly a viable metric to focus on in terms of knowledge, off again anomalous activity. I don't think we're near two hundred five days, but absolutely we are focused on it because we need to secure not only our data but the data that our customers in trust without trust, >> meaning you feel as though you could detect much in a much shorter time frame, and they have some interesting. You haven't depending >> on the wrist right? Without getting into a lot of the details. >> Yeah, So we'll see you. But implicit in that is that you have a sense of the value of your data, your assets your I p what you're saying you've got a pretty good visibility on. >> Is that right? Yeah, we d'Oh. We spent a lot of time making sure our security posture is solid again customers and trust us with their data. We take that responsibility very seriously. >> Not speaking for service now, but just general knowledge of your colleagues Do you feel as though the lack of ability to value data assets negatively affect people's ability? T appropriately spend resources >> on security? It's tough because one of the first things you need to do in security say, what do I need to secure first? And then you say, OK, well, that's my core. I pee. Where's my core I pee stored? I would argue that a lot of companies don't even know because it's scattered on different file shares and different servers, and then you don't know whether people are putting it on box or drop box or one of the many storied sites out there so keep key. First step, I think for a lot of organizations is really just getting a handle on where their I P is. >> Right? All right, Count Chris, Thank you very much. Appreciate you coming on last. Give the last word. Uh, knowledge sixteen for you. What's the kind of bumper sticker? Is the truck's pulling away from its been awesome. I mean, >> just talking with customers and fellow CEOs. You know, we're all in this journey together towards this service enabled enterprise, but it is about leadership and just courage to bust through this current status quo that were in within the enterprise to get to that next level of efficiency. >> Thanks a lot of fun. Well, congratulations on the new role on DH hosting at a hostel conference just caught the tail end of it. But it looked like great energy >> because a lot of >> had some really good discussions with some of your colleagues. So really great coming on. Thank you. Alright. Keep right there, buddy. That's the Cuba bit back from knowledge. Sixteen, Las Vegas. Right after this >> every once in a while.