>> Interviewer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hello everyone welcome to the Cube, I'm John Furrier, we are here in Las Vegas for the Cube coverage of IBM Think 2018. So Cube Studios, live coverage, all day long three days, this is our third day, our next guest, is Cube alumni, Inhi Cho Suh, she's also the general manager of Watson Customer Engagement, been on so many times I don't know, eight, ten, a lot, you're a VIP. Great to see you. >> Thank you, good seeing you John, I really enjoy hanging out with you guys. >> So we love to hear what you're up to, cause you always have your finger on the pulse, here at IBM, take a minute to explain the group that you're in, Watson Customer Engagement, that's kind of a nice bumper-- but there's a lot to it, you're doing now. >> There is. >> It's large it's got billions of dollars in revenue, give us the numbers, run the numbers for us, size, people, products, all in 30 seconds, no go. >> It's an exciting space. So Watson Customer Engagement is really a Watson business applications, that are relevant for marketers, merchandisers, digital commerce leaders, as well as supply chain professionals. So my team really develops the software, both for on premises and SasS for everything from digital marketing experiences, personalized marketing, campaign management, to managing next generation of interactive sites and shopping sites, to understanding customer journeys, and journey analytics, so supply chains, and big big collaborations. So it is a pretty broad breadth of about 21 solutions in offerings, that span many industries and many countries. >> We you got your hands in a lot of great stuff across the board but I think the big news today was the blockchain announcements, you guys featured a solution on stage, this is hard news, so explain, so talk about the hard news, you have an announcement, it's on stage, it's blockchain related, >> Yup absolutely so my team has been working on creating more analytics in our supply chain solution. So one of our solutions is called Supply Chain Insights which really is about adding visibility to disruptions. And being able to apply analytics to let's say management response, incident management. Then we were thinking about our supply chain business network, so that is a separate offering that we have, which is about 6 thousand clients are on it. With 400 thousand trading partners, we do 8 million transaction documents a day, in terms of this trading network. What we did was we announced a shared visibility ledger, for any of our clients and partners, in the supply chain business network. So we're adding blockchain to that as a way to ensure that transparency, as well as speed of operations, so we're really excited about it >> And security. >> And security huge. >> Huge. So supply chain, blockchain, value activities, all this stuff, this is where blockchain shines, because this is a core competency of IBM, for generations. >> Oh absolutely. >> I mean providing applications for value chains, so this is interesting, so just to get the clarification the product is on preview? >> Yeah it's a technology showcase that we're doing right now that we've prototyped, and we're going to make it available as an offering that's called shared ledger, for any client that's actually on our supply chain business network today. >> And what's in it for them? How do they implement it, and the vision of the product, they already have a product, they bolt in on, is this a new offering? >> Yeah so if they already have it, they'll get access to let's say a visibility layer, so the shared ledger will allow you to see where in the process your transaction document is. So let's say you're in the area of consumer and merchandising and moving goods. From in transit. So knowing when a box actually left a particular warehouse, is it in transit or not and did it actually deliver on time. There's a lot of parties involved in all of that. >> And paperwork, and manual processing, data entry >> You got it. Now you have the actual stamped records, of who's touched it, when, and whether or not with IOT instrumentation too. Of when things have moved or not. >> So this brings up the conversation we've been having on the Cube about the inefficiencies now going to be abstracted away with things like blockchain and AI. Used cases that you've seen that jump out at you, that you'd like to share, that can highlight that, obviously AI, I said analytics, that's your wheelhouse. Now blockchain's emerging, I mean this is the innovation sandwich. AI on one hand is bread, and then you got blockchain, and data's the meat. >> Well you know especially in areas like supply chain, where small bits of optimization, meaning a one percent improvement, or resolving invoice and settlements, have such huge ripple effects downstream. So there was a great example in terms of our Maersk work, and global trade and blockchain. Is food shipments in particular, and food safety. And being able to resolve the source of where the original food, whether it was grown, or harvested, and being able to do that in seconds, not weeks, right, going through that paperwork. So there's huge opportunities there. We're excited because we're now adding in not just AI capabilities, but we're also adding in collaboration capabilities into that, which then allow groups of people to interact together, in time, just in moment, to address alternative decisions and routes. >> Inhi I want to get your personal perspective on something, we've had so many conversations in the past around points in time, show messaging, and products you're announcing, it seems like this show at IBM, with everything coming together under one big tent, you see visibility now on unit economics of value, you're starting to see the path towards solutions, for customers, it's not as foggy as it once was. How do you explain that, you've see this evolve, and Jamie Thomas and I were talking earlier about, you know we base an investments and bets is now paying off what's really happening here, what's the big ah ha moment, where all this is kind of crystallizing right now. >> Well a couple things have happened. You know IBM's gone through, we've gone through our own transformation. If you think about even four or five years ago, the mix of our portfolio, to what it is now, less than I would say three billion of our revenue basis was in the mix that we have now. And if you think about our fourth quarter earnings even as we enter first quarter, we had I think over 46 percent, 46 to 48 percent of our portfolio tied to what we call our strategic imperatives. And that's a huge transformation, so part of that is a couple things, one is, we said look, this world of AI leverages and consumes a tremendous amount of data, and we want to make sure that you're protecting your data set. So we want to be thoughtful about how you engage strategically so let's have your strategy, let's make sure you understand your data, we want to protect you in that. We want to actually enable you to curate, train, harvest, the insights from that. We want to make sure we leverage your expertise. So your people, your talent, so augmenting them with capabilities that are work flow oriented, task management, self discovery, and then most importantly, delivering platforms multiple platforms quite frankly, over time that learn. Right, learn to interact, and evolve and can integrate these data sets, in order to give our clients speed. So that's what's been great about here, is we're actually getting to share our own transformation story, but also our portfolio has evolved across strategy, data, and platform. >> It's been sure and a clear line of sight on some value. What's the big bets that you could look back on the past five years and say wow, we made some big bets, these one's paid off. What were those big bets in your mind. You've been involved in a lot of deals I know, analytics side, what were the big bets that IBM made that's paying off right now? >> You know I feel like I've known you almost eight, nine years now right, since you guys started on some of this. I would say for example, our better round big data. That is a huge bet, in terms of our analytics capability, and that is a full spectrum, that is something that we've been investing in for quite a long time. And then when you think about the bet on Watson and AI, and transforming, not just businesses and business process but actually transforming professions. We have Watson today operating across multiple industries, like 20 different industries in 45 countries. Multiple languages, multiple implementations, and it's getting better and better, whether it's healthcare, it's tax accounting, it's law and cyber security, we're seeing huge opportunities >> Data paid off big time. >> Huge payoff. Cloud. Cloud is huge for every client, because they're in different states of their journey. There may be certain application workloads, that they want to manage themselves, there maybe be applications that they want, and services that they want to subscribe to in the cloud. Public, private, hybrid, we're having that dialogue. So I think everyone is on that journey now. So that's another huge bet. And then verticalizing the application sets. And so one of the things that I've got the opportunity to be a part of right now, is really the business applications, and how are we infusing Watson into our business applications. >> And leveraging the horizontal scale of Cloud, and everything else, and blockchain. So what's the priorities for you going into the new business, you got a big organization, thousands of employees, or people work for you, a lot going on, what's the priorities, what is the focus? >> I've got about five thousand people on the team, so small team (laughs) Globally dispersed, we're working on a number of things actually, and what's so exciting about that is we're thinking about personalizing AI at mass scale. So when you think about, through the lens of a marketer, real time personalization is becoming more, and more challenged, because of not only the data sets, but the types of tools and the varied tool applications, you're switching context all the time. So we're providing ways to integrate and mix data sets, so our user behavior exchange data set really gives insights around consumer sentiment, behavior, and context. The work the team has been doing around metropolts, hyper local store and a city location data, mixing that with events and other activities, and customer transaction data. So a lot on that front. The second category we're really focused on, is next generation of embedding, what I would consider cognitive services, like search, headless search, so really understanding intent that's pervasive, on other platforms. We're adding things also, like embedded agents, so everyone's right now talking about you know they want to create chat bots, and bots, But they may be embedded in systems, and they also may be embedded in different types of use cases, call center, so forth, so we're excited about that. And then obviously the supply chain area with blockchain, so we've got a lot. >> And the payoff in data's interesting because now you've got contextual relevance for things that are embedded, like chat bots, or whatever at the right time. And also if you think about the gamification opportunities, data now in these network affect markets, whether it's blockchain evolving into cryptocurrency, and decentralized web applications. The commerce piece is going to be impacted. Your vertical integrations are going to be gamified. This is coming right down main street for IBM isn't it? >> Well and if you think about blockchain one of the biggest challenges is onboarding into a network. So what we're trying to do is one of the use cases is actually adding blockchain to existing networks, and so that once you're onboarded into a network, you can connect to other networks. So a network of networks sort of effect. >> And their effects is all data driven. >> It's all data driven. So membership and governance around blockchain is important, and then the other piece we're thinking through is use cases by vertical, so retail, so when you go through that lens, and retail in terms of fashion, it's a very different lens than when you think through the business lens of retail banking, right. And our team is thoughtful about what does that mean in the next generation of content services. So how do you automatically tag images, and surface them up, for it be published in the right media form, independent of the channel, or the navigation tools or assets. There's a lot here I'm excited. >> So final question for you, it's kind of a philosophical one, you can answer it or not. You know you always get the zingers from me, but the tools are changing too, so in these new emerging markets, where there's just not-- take finance for instance and say cryptocurrency, and software, the tooling's not there, you can't just stand up at a trading exchange, that's in these new token environments, or what these apps have. So there's new tooling coming out, that's a concern, how are you guys helping customers get the tooling? Is that on your radar? Is that something you guys are talking about? >> Well you know it's interesting that you bring it up, which is technology adoption. I'm just going to call it in a broader sense, because part of tooling is really about in user education and enablement. We are actually adding a capability called Ask Watson, embedded in our software and services, especially our SasS properties, such that hey, I want to build a new email campaign, well what are my choices, and instead of reading through a traditional manual, or having to go and find someone, or watching a bunch of YouTube videos, what if Watson actually surfaced, here are ways here are some existing templates, where would you like to start. And all of a sudden this kind of co-creation happens. So we're actually thinking of applying Watson, embedded in our software, and SasS services to enable, not just tooling, actually automatic assistance in the task, in the moment. >> Yeah no need to code. Insights is a service. >> Huge, customer insights is actually one of our top applications. So we're doing capabilities around journey analytics, and customer experience analytics, so think about when you're any business person, who's got a set of clients, you know what they want to do as they express their brand, it may be done through email communications, it may be push notifications, there may be a SEO notification, and in that scenario, at what point, does the consumer, or the be to be struggle, in actually fulfilling a transaction. Was it as they're zooming in and doing product comparisons was it as they were looking at post purchase serviceability. We are able to actually understand and look at their journey as they travel through all these touch points. So we're actually doing customer experience analytics, too. So for me, just coming from that data analytics background, into this application space of so many domain practitioners, >> And these applications got to be real time, they got to have the data analytics. Inhi, great to see you, thanks for coming on the Cube, it's been eight, nine years, it feels like in analytics years it's like 20. You look great, thanks for sharing your insights, on the Cube and congratulations on your new role, >> Thank you >> Thanks for stopping by the Cube. I'm John Furrier here in the Cube Studios, IBM Think 2018, back with more coverage after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, its theCUBE covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM >> Welcome back to IBM Think 2018, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with my co-host Peter Burris, this is day three of our coverage. Mohammad Farooq is here, he's the general manager of Brokerage Services GTS at IBM. Mohammad, great to see you again, thanks for coming back on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much, appreciate for having me here. >> You're very welcome. So, big show. All the clients come together in one big tent. >> Yes. >> What do you think? >> It's very exciting. I think we're doing some interesting things with our technology. We have learned a lot from our clients the last two years. We are working very closely with our partners because we believe not one company can do everything in this massive transformation that's underway. So, working with our partners, with our clients on new technologies to specifically accelerate enterprized option of the cloud model and that's exciting for us. >> Partnering, it seems to have new, energized momentum at IBM. I sense a change, is it palpable? I mean, how can you comment on that? >> I think partnering is critical for everybody's success because the industry itself is transforming, and one company cannot achieve all the requirements that clients are asking for, and we have our core competencies. Service Now, our VMWare, our Amazon, our Azure They have their core competencies. But IBM, as a company, is a company that enterprisers trust to move them to cloud and operate them in the cloud. So what we are doing is, to keep that goal in mind, we are saying okay, we are going to take a client from point A, which is non-cloud, to point B, which is cloud native, and in that journey, we will take everybody our partners helped to get there. So that's why, based on client request, we are leveraging our partners, and it has a special meaning for us because it makes our clients successful. >> OK, so, describe exactly what brokerage services does. Is it your job to get people to the cloud? But talk more about that; add some color please. >> I think the brokerage has evolved since I last talked to you a year ago. At this conference, right? A lot of people think brokerage is arbitrage. >> Peter: Is what? >> Arbitrage of services from one provider to the other, that's the limited definition of brokerage. So what we're really calling it is Hybrid Cloud Management System, not brokerage. Brokerage is one part of it. So the Hybrid Cloud Management System is the go-forward strategy of IBM in 2019, 2018 and beyond. Which includes three, four components. One is: how do you bring the entire cloud ecosystem into a federated management maodel? Which includes: business management of IT and cloud, our hybrid. Consumption: a standard consumption model through one point of access to all clouds, internal or external. Third: delivery, how do we deliver services, either automated or workflow? Bi-model, as Gartner calls it, in one model. And four: operations management across public, private, hybrid, internal or external. >> Let me make sure I got this, so, business services in the sense of running IT more like a business, >> Mohammad: Right! >> A consumption model in terms of presenting this in a way that's simple and easy for a business-person to use, a delivery model, in the sense that it's very simple and straightforward and fast to deliver, and then an operations model which makes sure that everything above it works well. >> Yes, and the consumers, in this case, are developers, IT operations people, and DevApp teams, and from a delivery perspective, it is automated or people-work-flow, so you support both, so bringing this federated model together is a very complex undertaking, and IBM services is the strategic partner clients are asking to take them on this journey. Hey, bring this together for us. It's very complex at all layers. It's not a simple thing, and in that bringing it together, partners have a big role to play. Azure, Amazon, Google, Service Now, VMWare, Cisco, they all have critical pieces of it that make this model work, and clients have made choices. Clients already have VMWare. Clients already have Service Now Clients already have Amazon, Azure. But there is no system that brings it together and manages it on an ongoing basis, and the important thing is, the clouds keep changing very fast, and keeping up with the clouds, leveraging the power of the clouds to the right teams within the enterprise to deliver new digital apps, to delivery revenue, is what IBM is enabling our clients to do. >> So wikibot has actually done a fair amount of research around what we call the cloud operating model, we call the Digital Business Platform. AWS has an example of that, as you mention. They all have their approaches to handle those four things that you mentioned. >> Mohammad: Yes! >> But when you get to a customer, who also has to marry across these clouds, sustain some on-premises assets, perhaps some near-premises assets within the cost-service provider, it's what you're trying to do is ensure that they have their operating model that is the appropriate mix of all these different capabilities for their business, we got that right? >> Exactly, you got it. So what we said was every cloud provider, internal or external, or even hosting cloud providers, IBM is a hosting cloud provider. >> Right! >> With the adjustment of business. They had their own model across those four things: Business, consumption, delivery, operations. Now, we cannot operate four silos. Every enterprise is using Amazon, every enterprise has Google, every enterprise has VMWare, every enterprise has IBM. We cannot have four models. >> Dave: Right! >> So what we have done is we have created one standard consistent target operating model. We have integrated all these offerings within that so clients don't have to do it. We offer services to create extensions to it based on variations clients might have, and then operate it as a service for them, so that their path to cloud gets accelerated, and they start leveraging the power of what's good today inside the data centers, and what's available outside in public clouds, in a very secure way. So that is the business IBM is in moving forward, which we are calling it, we are transforming our offerings portfolio, we are calling it: Hybrid Cloud Services Business >> OK so you've got this hybrid operating model, IT operating model that you're envisioning, you're letting the cloud partners do what they do best, >> Mohammad: Right. >> Including your IBM cloud partners, >> Mohammad: Including our operating partners, >> And then you guys are bringing it all together in a framework, in an operating model, That actually can drive business value. >> Exactly, that's what we're doing. We are giving them ease of access from one place, choice of delivery platform, choice of delivery models from one place. Single visibility into how they're running, performing, help, and diagnostics from one place, and then, one billing and payment model, not four. So when I pay monthly bills, I pay based on usage, qualification of that usage across everybody, and then reconciling with my ERP systems, and making the payments. So the CFO has a standard way to manage payments. So that's what IBM is bringing to the table. >> How far could you take this? Could you take this into my SAS portfolio as well, Or is that sort of next step? >> What right now we are doing InfoSecure as a service and platform as a service. Our goal is in '18 and '19 to move to software as a service, because software as a service is much easier because we don't own the infrastructure or the service, we just consume it as electricity, utility. So that we discover the usage of SAS and meter it for usage against our billing model that we have to as B2B contract between a SAS provider and an enterprise and then make sure we've done the license management right. So there's companies like Flexera and others who do that For SAS management there's companies like Skyhigh Networks that recently got acquired, we're bringing those companies in to give us that component. >> But doing that level of brokering amongst the different services, while very useful, valuable, especially if you can provide greater visibility in the cost, because this becomes an increasing feature of COGs in a digital business, right? You still got to do a lot about the people stuff. A lot of folks are focused on ITIL, ITSM, automation at that level. Describe how you'll work with an IT organization and a business to evolve its underlying principals for how the operating model is going to work. >> I think that's probably a more difficult challenge than the technology itself, and if you look at our business, it was a people, it is a people business with GTS. We're more than 90,000 to 100,000 employees babysitting infrastructure for major fortune 500 corporations, and InfoSecure is more into software-defined, that means that we are moving from configuration skills to programming skills, where your programming API is in Amazon to provision infrastructure and deploy, so the skillsets have to definitely move. They have to move to infrastructure teams now have to become programming teams, which they have not been used to. They used to go to VMWare, vSphere, vCenter and configure VMs and deploy VMs. Now they have the right programs to drive and provision infrastructure, so that's one part of it. Second, the process was you do development and then your throw it over to operations, and they'll go configure and deploy production. Now, when you're programming infrastructure. Second, you're doing it in collaboration with developers, because developers are defining their own infrastructure in the cloud. So the process is different. The skills are different, and the process you are to operate in is not the same, it's different. Third, the technologies are different that you work with. So there is change at all levels and what GTS has done is we have put a massive goal in place to re-scale our workforce to take our people and re-scale them in the new process, the new technology and the new roles and that's a very big challenge I think the industry is facing: we don't have enough people who know this. A lot of these people are in Netflix, Facebook, Google, in Silicon Valley, and now, it takes time, it has happened before. The training and the transfer of knowledge, all of that is going on right now. So right now we have a crunch, And the second thing that is becoming more difficult is there's a lot of data coming out of these systems. The volume of data is unbelievable. Like if you look at Splunk and other tools and platforms, they collect a lot of log data. So all these cloud platforms spit out a lot of machine data. Humans cannot comprehend that. It's incomprehensible. So we need machine learning skills and data science skills to understand how these systems are performing. >> Peter: And tools. >> And tools. So we need the AI skills, the data science skills, in addition to the infrastructure design architecture and programming skills. So we really have a challenge on our hands as an industry to kind of effectively build the next-gen management systems. >> Right and we've got, so we've got all these clouds, the ascendancy of clouds has brought cloud creep, >> Mohammad: Right. >> All these bespoke tools along with them, all these different operating models. You're clearly solving a problem there. What's the go-to-market model with all these partners that you've mentioned? You've got cloud, you got PRAM, eventually SAS, >> Yeah, so our cloud go-to-market is three ways We see clients adopting cloud in three ways. One is digital initiatives: They want to go build new IOD apps or mobile apps and they want to put it in production that drive revenue, okay? So we are creating offerings around the DevApps model. We'll say like look, the biggest challenge that our folks have is how to put a app that you build in production. I built a new feature, how can I get it to my client as soon as possible, in a secure way, that can scale and perform, that is the biggest problem with app developers. I can develop anywhere, it's all open-source. I'm not living in, and I can spin up a VM or a container in Amazon and develop a service in two days. But to put it in production, it takes a long time. How can we make offerings that accelerate that? Through our DevApp CICD automation process I was talking about, that's our revenue play. So our go-to-market is driven by how we can generate revenue for our clients through agile offerings for DevApps, that's one go-to-market. Second go-to-market is CIOs are saying like look, I'm spending a lot of money managing my current infrasatructure and my current app portfolio, and I can take money out of the system through cost reductions, so what is my migration and modernization path for my existing portfolio? >> Well, slightly differently, I used to get I used to get my eight to nine percent that I gave back to the business every year simply by following hardware price performance. >> Mohammad: That's exactly right. >> That's not available in the same way. I have to do it through process and automation. >> All automation right? So then we have to look at everything. What part of the portfolio can move to Amazon or cannot? What other refactoring I have to do to microservices and containers to build portability to move to the cloud? So we have created a migration, a global migration practice at IBM in a factory in India and in the US where we have created offerings to work with the CIO right from planning, cost planning, portfolio planning, application design planning and design review, to lift-and-shift, to deploy in cloud and operate it. So we have a series of offerings that track the life-cycle of migration. So that's our second go-to-market path. Our third go-to-market path is: Hey, my business per units are shadow IT; they're already in the cloud, now my CEO is telling me: Hey mister CIO, you make sure they all work and they're secure, and there's no loss in data. And this infrastructure is now in cloud and on-prem. So how do I provide, manage service, to manage your infrastructure and workloads in the cloud? IBM has offerings that will directly provide you multi-cloud management as managed service. So we are taking three client journeys and we are building go-to-market offerings around those three, and we have built, we have re-designed IBM portfolio to operate on those lines. >> Do the digital initiatives, chief digital officer, obviously, target their CIO for the portfolio rationalization optimization and line of business through the shadow IT? >> Right! >> And you bring those together with a constant consistent operating model? >> Exactly, so all three journeys lead to one operating model. >> Dave: Yeah! >> But going back to what Dave said, and we have time for just a little bit more, is, is, no offense, there's no way you can do it all by yourself. >> Mohammad: You cannot. >> So what are some of the core, what are some of the most important partnerships that users need to be looking to? >> I think we have defined what's goal to us. Not always go back to, if you are clearly going to market, what is the core competency of IBM? Okay, with (mumbles) we're going to service this company for a long time, right? We made sure we are, we bring the complexity and control and we manage the complexity; that's our core business. We had mainframe business, we had software business, and a very profitable software business. So we've done all three, hardware, software, and services. As we go forward, cloud services, cloud managed services, our IBM services, is a core competency for us, which is planning, design, managed services, and services integration, to bring these tool sets together from different partners, and operationalizing it, and babysitting it and offering it as a service. So services business is our core offering. Now in the software space, which is the management software, which is service now, (mumbles) Cisco, there there is many layers to it, as I talked about the four things: consumption, operations management, business management, >> And service delivery >> And service delivery. And in service delivery we have three choices: we have VMWare, we have Microsoft and we have IBM. We have stitched it together in a federated framework. The stitching together is our core competence. Okay, Operations management. We have created a federated data lake because data will drive everything going forward. So we own the data lake as our core competency and Watson driving intelligence. But some of the monitoring tools like AppDynamics, New Relic, Splunk, that collect the data, those are our partners. We're integrating that into our Watson framework. So we're looking at core versus non-core in all four layers, and wherever there's a overlap, we're creating unique vertical go-to-market strategies. Here, for this segment, we overlap with you, we agree to compete, to your clients you can lead with that, for our clients we'll lead with ours, so we agree to disagree, but we are going to stick to the target operating model, so that our clients are successful. So there's no confusion we are creating in their minds. So its a very complex dance at this point. >> But you laid it out and it's coherent. >> Right. >> It's got to start there. >> The most important thing is we need to tell our clients what is our core, and what is the core we're going to stand behind? And that core delivers them bottom-line value to move from point A to point B and be successful in the cloud. >> Well Mohammad, I think you've defined those swim lanes, you obviously trust and you've got the trust of your partners, trust of your customers. Like you say, you agree to compete where it makes sense, and you bring core competency and value to differentiate from your competition, so, >> Right. >> Dave: Congratulations on laying that out. We really appreciate you coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> You're welcome. All right, keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE live from Think 2018, we'll be right back. >> Mohammad: Thank you very much. (upbeat music)

>> narrator: From Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> We're back at IBM Think 2018. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with Peter Burris, my co-host, and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. Our day two of our wall to wall coverage of IBM Think. Madhu Kochar is here. She's the Vice President of Analytics, Product Development at IBM and she's joined by Pat Maqetuka >> Close enough. She's a data officer at Nedbank. Ladies, welcome to theCUBE. You have to say your last name for me. >> Patricia Maqetuka. >> Oh, you didn't click >> I did! >> Do it again. >> Maqetuka. >> Amazing. I wish I could speak that language. Well, welcome. >> Madhu & Pat: Thank you. >> Good to see you again. >> Madhu: Thank you. >> Let's start with IBM Think. New show for you guys you consolidated, you know, six big tent events into one. There's a lot of people, there's too many people, to count I've been joking. 30, 40 thousand people, we're not quite sure, but how's the event going for you? What are clients telling you? >> Yeah, no, I mean, to your point, yes, we brought in all three big pillars together; a lot of folks here. From data and analytics perspective, an amazing, amazing event for us. Highlights from yesterday with Arvind Krishna on our research. What's happening. You know, five for five, that was really inspiring for all of us. You know, looking into the future, and it's not all about technology, was all about how we are here to help protect the world and change the world. So that as a, as a gige, as an engineer, that was just so inspiring. And as I was talking to our clients, they walk away with IBM as really a solution provider and helping, so that was really good. I think today's, Ginni's, keynote was very inspiring, as well. From our clients, we got some of our key clients, you know, Nedbank is here with us, and we've been talking a lot about our future, our strategy. We just announced, Ginni actually announced, our new product, IBM Cloud Private for Data. Everything around data, you know, where we are really bringing the power of data and analytics all together on a private cloud. So that's a huge announcement for us, and we've been talking a lot with our clients and the strategies resonating and particularly, where I come from in terms of the co-ordinance and integration space, this is definitely becoming now the "wow" factor because it helps stitch the entire solutions together and provide, you know, better insights to the data. >> Pat from your perspective, you're coming from Johannesburg so you probably like the fact that there's all IBM in one, so you don't have to come back to three or four conferences every year, but love your perspectives on that, and can you please tell us about Nedbank and your role as Chief Data Officer. >> Nedbank is one of the big five financial banks in South Africa. I've been appointed as the CDO about 18 months ago, so it's a new role in the bank per say. However, we're going through tremendous transformation in the bank and especially our IT eco-system has been transformed because we need to keep up with what is happening in the IT world. >> Are you the banks first Chief Data Officer? >> Definitely yes. I'm the first. >> Okay. So, you're a pioneer. I have to ask you then, so where did you start when you took over as the Chief Data Officer? I mean banking is one of those industries that tends to be more Chief Data Officer oriented, but it's a new role, so where did you start? >> Well we are not necessary new in the data, per say. We have had traditional data warehousing functions in the organization with traditional warehousing or data roles in the organization. However, the Chief Data role was never existent in the bank and actual fact, the bank appointed two new roles 18 months ago. One of them was the Chief Digital Officer, who is my colleague, and myself being appointed as the Chief Data Officer. >> Interesting, okay. I talked to somebody from Northern Trust yesterday and she was the lead data person and she said, "I had to start with a mission. We had to find the mission first and then we looked at the team, and then we evolved into, how we contribute to the business, how we improve data quality, who has access, what skills we needed." Does that seem like a logical progression and did you take a similar path? >> I think every bank will look at it differently or every institution. However, from a Nedbank perspective, we were given the gift by the regulator in bringing the BCBS 239 compliancy into play, so what the bank then did, how do we leverage, not just being compliant, but leveraging the data to create competitive advantage, and to create new sources of revenue. >> Okay. Let's talk about, Madhu we talked about this in New York City, you know, governance, compliance, kind of an evil word to a lot of business people. Although, your contention was "Look, it's reality. You can actually turn it into a positive." So talk about that a little bit and then we can tie it into Nedbank's experiences. >> Yeah, so I firmly believe in, you know, in the past governance 1.0 was all about compliance and regulations, very critical, but that's all we drew. I believe now, it's all about governance 2.0, where it's not just the compliance, but how do I drive insights, you know, so data is so, so critical from that perspective, and driving insights quicker to your businesses, is going to be very important, so as we engage with Nedbank and other clients as well, they are turning that because they are incumbents. They know their data, they've got a lot of data, you know, some of, they know sitting in structure, law structure land, and it's really, really important that they quickly able to assess what's in it, classify it, right, and then quickly deliver the results to the businesses, which they're looking for, so we're, I believe in lieu of governance 2.0, and compliance and regulations are always going to be with us, and we're making, actually, a lot of improvements in our technology, introducing machine learning, how we can do these things faster and quicker. >> So one of the first modern pieces of work that Peter and I did was around data classification and that seems to be, I heard this theme before, it seems to be a component or a benefit of putting governance in place. That you can automate data classification and use it to affect policy, but Pat, from your standpoint, how do you approach governance, what are the business benefits beyond "we have to do this"? >> Like I earlier on alluded to, we took the regulation as a gift and said, "How do we turn this regulation into benefits for the organization?" So in looking at the regulation we then said, "How do we then structure the approach?" So we looked at the two prompts. The first was, the right to win. The right to win meaning that we are able to utilize the right to compete approach from a regulation perspective, to create a platform and a foundation for analytics for our organization. We also created the blueprint for our enterprise data program and in the blueprint, we also came up with key nine principles of what it means to stay true to our data. I.e. you mentioned classification, you mentioned data politic, you mentioned lineage. Those are the key aspects within our principles. The other key principle we also indicated was the issue around duplication. How do we ensure that we describe data once, we ingest it once, but we use it multiple times to answer different questions, and as you are aware, in analytics, the more you mine the data, the more inquisitive you become, so it is, (clears throat) Sorry. It's not been from data to information, information to insight, and eventually insights to foresight, so looking into the future, and now you bring it back into data. >> And also some points that you've made Pat, so the concept is, one of the challenges of using the fuel example, is that governance of fuel, is still governance of a thing. You can apply it here, you can apply it there, you can't apply it to both places. Data's different and you were very, very accurate when you said "We wanted to find it once, we want to ingest it once, we want to use it multiple times". That places a very different set of conditions on the types of governance and in many respects, in the past, other types of assets where there is this sense of scarcity, it is a problem, but one of the things that I'm, and this is a question, is the opportunity, you said the regulatory opportunity, is the opportunity, because data can be shared, should we start treating governance really as a way of thinking about how to generate value out of data, and not a way of writing down the constraints of how we use it. What do you think about that? >> I think you are quite right with that because the more you give the people the opportunity to go and explore, so you unleash empowerment, you unleash freedom for them to go and explore. They will not see governance as a stick like I initially indicated, but they see it as business as usual, so it will come natural. However, it doesn't happen overnight. People need to be matured, organization is to be matured. Now, the first step you have to do is to create those policies, create awareness around the policies, and make sure that the people who are utilizing the data are trained in to what are the do's and the don'ts. We are fully aware that cyber security's one of our biggest threats, so you can also not look at how you create security around your data. People knowing that how I use my data it is an asset of the bank and not an asset of an individual. >> I know you guys have to go across the street, but I wanted to get this in. You're a global analytics global elite client; I want to understand what the relationship is. I mean, IBM, why IBM, maybe make a few comments about your relationship with the company. >> I think we as Nedbank, we are privileged, actually, to be inculcated into this global elite program of IBM. That has helped me in actual, in advancing what we need to do from a data perspective because anytime I can pick up a phone to collaborate with the IBM MaaS, I can pick up the phone whenever I need support, I need guidance. I don't have to struggle alone because they've done it with all the other clients before, so why should I reinvent the wheel, whereas someone else has done it, so let me tap into that, so that that can progress quicker than try it first. >> Alright. Madhu, we'll give you the final word. On Think and your business and your priorities. >> So, Think is amazing, you know, the opportunity to meet with all our clients and coming from product development, talking about our strategy and getting that validation is just good, you know, sharing open road maps with clients like Nedbank and our other global elites, you know. It gives us an opportunity, not just sharing of the road maps, but actually a lot of co-creation, right, to take us into the future, so I'm having a blast. I got to go run over and meet a few other clients, but thank you for having us over here. It's a pleasure. >> You're very welcome and thank you so much for coming on and telling your story, Pat, and Madhu, always a pleasure to see you. >> Thank you. >> Alright, got to get in your high horse and go. Thanks for watching everybody, we'll be right back after this short break. You're watching theCUBE live from IBM Think 2018. We'll be right back. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: It's The Cube covering OpenStack Summit 2017 brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, Red Hat, an additional ecosystem of support. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman joined by my cohost John Troyer. Happy to welcome back to the program the two Keynote emcees for the first two days, Jonathan Bryce who's the executive director and Mark Collier who's the COO of OpenStack Foundation. Both of you, thanks so much for joining us. >> Jonathan: Yeah, thanks for having us back. >> It's great to be on The Cube. >> Thank you for the foundation. Without your guys' support, we couldn't do this. It's our fifth year doing the show. I remember the first year, John Furrier went. They were like, "Hey, OpenStack has arrived. "The Cube's there!" And now, it's part of our regular rotation. I know our community loves it. Community, opensource, big part of the show. I wish we had two hours to tease out all the pieces, but Mark, I got to start with you. You just did a live Q&A with Edward Snowden. Somebody joked, they said the quality and the sound was too good. He was sitting in the backroom somewhere. Can you just tell us, how did this come about and how do you make that work? >> Yeah. I mean, pinch me. Is this real life? I keep asking myself 'cause it seems kind of surreal. Just briefly, I got a lot of people that ask, "How did we get connected with him?" It's kind of a funny story, but basically, several years ago when the whole story came out about somebody from the government, from NSA had leaked these documents, but nobody knew who it was. I was on vacation, it was in the summer. I forget what year, I was on vacation with family. We were in the lobby of this hotel where we were on vacation and I've been following the story with some interest. All of a sudden, I see on the TV screen in the lobby of the hotel, "Breaking news, we're about to reveal "the name of the leaker." I look up and I'm watching it and it says, "Here it is. It's Edward Snowden." The first thing I did is I pull up my phone. I immediately look and see if edwardsnowden.com was available, so I registered it thinking, "Well, this might come in handy." Some person just became the most famous person in the world, possibly. It was available, so I'm like, I'm furiously typing on my phone trying to register the domain. I register the domain edwardsnowden.com. No idea what I would actually do with it, just thinking, "If it's there, "this name is about to become really famous," so I registered it. Didn't do much with it, I just put some Twitter feeds on there, just thought, "We'll see what comes of this." A little while later as things developed, he ended up in Russia. I was contacted by some of his team that said, "We're putting together a legal defense fund. "It'd be great if we could host it at edwardsnowden.com. "Could we buy the domain from you?" I was like, "You can have it, I'll donate it. "I just grabbed it 'cause I figured "this might come in handy someday, "just was an impulse." They said, "Great, thank you. "Edward thanks you, we're going to really use "this domain for his legal defense fund webpage," and all that stuff. Overtime, I occasionally would ping them and say, "Look, the domain's free. You've got it. "I want you to have it, it's not my name. "I don't have any need, I don't have any right to this. "You guys use it, but it would be great "if he could come on the Summit thing that we do." This was three or four years ago. They were like, "Oh yeah, he would love to do it "to thank you for donating the domain," but each time we talked, it was always like, the schedule didn't lineup. I've been literally asking him for six or seven Summits. This was the first time the schedules lined up. I didn't tell anybody 'cause I thought, this is never going to happen, this is a pipe dream. I don't want to promise anything. It was only just a few weeks ago that we found out the schedule's lined up, it's on. Got connected from there. He's obviously an opensource-person, has a lot of passion behind that. We thought this is pretty interesting for our audience, so it worked out. >> All right, so Jonathan. Let's reset for a second here (Jonathan laughs) and step back. One of the things we'd love to see is the foundation is self-aware. There's always that balance when you get into, you don't want to read the press or things like that because they don't understand what we're doing or where we're going or things like that. In your opening Keynote and throughout the show, we called it, it's a little bit of a reset. If you think about where people thought OpenStack was and where it was going three years ago, it was like, the Amazon this or the cheaper VMware or how that is, where it is, where it's going, who's leading, who's involved, winning-and-losing type stuff, you guys did a good job of laying that out, so congrats on that. Take us in a little bit, and what message did you guys want to get out this week? >> Yeah, I think that you're right, we are very self-aware. I think that some of that comes from our role. At the foundation, we are not selling a product. We don't have anything to sell off the back of a truck, so to speak. What we actually really care about is moving the state of the community and the technology we produce forward. The thing that's great about that is we can look at the portfolio of technologies that we have. We can look at the things that are in the market and if we see a shift there, it's not like we have a $500 million dollar line of business that, "Uh-oh, we need to keep milking this cash cow "and turn a blind eye to these changes over here." I think over the last couple of years, I talked about a shift in what private clouds can do now and how they're built and operated. We seen that and we've sort of been teasing that out a little bit at previous Summits whether it's demos with Kubernetes or different integrations with Cloud Foundry and other things like that. What we decided this time is coming out of last year, there was a lot of news. What we saw really picking up is there would be these rumors or misperceptions that somebody would put out there, you know? Not based on fact, not based on reality. We were like, "You know what? "We can't just try to subtly hint at what's going on. "Let's just go out there and actually address "the state of things," and I think what you mentioned is actually what's at the root of a lot of these misconceptions as people look at opensource now. Because so much technology gets developed that way, they look at it and they expect it to be like the old world of IT where you need to have Microsoft versus Linux, and you need to have Oracle versus MySQL. Actually, what we see is just the cloud overall is growing so quickly. Public cloud, everybody believes that's growing. What we see is, private clouds are growing. We see that servers, there are more servers this year than there were last year. There are more virtual machines this year than there were last year. Far more containers this year than last year. All of these technologies are growing, so it's not a zero-sum game where in order for OpenStack to succeed, AWS has to lose. I think that we feel that way and we see that, but we realize that this is... We need to just go at it directly. >> Mark, I've heard good feedback from people when, you know, core, where it is, how it's matured. People like the component piece. They'd be able to take some digital pieces which, my understanding, they could do that before, it's becoming highlighted a bit. We talked about some of the opensource days and Cloud Foundry, Kubernetes. The piece where we've heard some people poking holes in is what big tent we discussed last year. Big tent, we poked a hole, is it dead? How do we reposition that? >> Yeah, that's a great question. I think first of all, one of the things that this just this strange stroke of luck that maybe turned out to be bad luck was, one of the few times when a handful of developers went off and organized something, gave it a random name and the name really stuck. It actually was almost too good of a name. You heard Big Tent and everyone's just rolling off the tongue all the time, "Big Tent, Big Tent, Big Tent," so everyone had to have an opinion about it and was like, "This is a huge change." It really wasn't meant to be a huge change. It wasn't even meant to be broadcast that widely to everyone who's just observing OpenStack. That's just kind of what happens, people talk about it. I do think that we are entering a point now when we're thinking about composable, open infrastructure, yes, you need to have different components. You need to be able to pick them, but we're also getting more serious about what things need to exist in OpenStack. I talked about that a little bit this morning. Not every single thing that we've launched needs to continue to be an OpenStack project. Whether you call it the Big Tent or not, or if you give it different names, the reality is we need to adopt and integrate technologies from other communities. Any opensource community out there is potentially developing something really powerful. >> Jonathan: Did you mention the FCB thing this morning in your, I can't remember if-- >> Yeah I mentioned it briefly. A perfect example of this is a lot of OpenStack services have said, "You know, we need to distributed lock management function "in order to evolve as a service. "Where should we go build it? "How're we going to write it?" Then, this culture of, "Well, hold on. "There are a lot of them out there, they're proven. "What about Etcd?" So the forum, which is the first time we've really had a dedicated space at the Summit for both developers and operators to be in the same room, not just next door to each other. They had a discussion yesterday on this and they said, "Yes, we're going to go forward with Etcd." That's an opensource project, very proven, it solves this particular function, it's not developed inside of OpenStack, but who cares? It's opensource. We can work, we can be friends with anybody who builds great opensource software. Let's not reinvent the wheels. I think that does represent a bit of a shift in the philosophy and culture at OpenStack of not trying to just build every single thing from scratch 'cause that's not the best thing for our users or the market. >> I think the ecosystem message and the landscape message came through really clearly. This is my first OpenStack Summit. I was very curious about what is the shape of OpenStack? Where does it fit in? Talking about the upper layers and Kubernetes and the app layers, and now talking about the overall landscape, right. Why rewrite that something like Etcd write. The whole ecosystem has grown up around OpenStack. During the 70's, the whole foundation has been working on it, all the members. One thing that impressed me, we are post-hype cycle. There are real customers here. There are people building their first clouds right now on OpenStack. Could you talk a little bit about just the community in general, the composition of it and the actual real use cases that we're seeing that happen. >> We had some new companies that spoke here for the first time, GE was one. The U.S. Army Cyber School is another one. We had some companies that came back as well. I think that you hit on a key point which is the maturity of the software. A company like GE, especially in their healthcare division, this is a highly regulated company. It's probably the most regulated company out there when you consider the things they do with aviation, nuclear power, healthcare, finance and all these things. They don't take those decisions lightly at all. I think that is an indicator of that maturity. What we see in the makeup of the community is a broader set of industries than ever before. We had strong representation among IT companies early on and continued with that, but now we have industrial companies. We have manufacturing companies like Volkswagen, BMW, you know, a number of car manufacturers, and defense companies. I think that kind of plays into that. I think the other thing that we've seen... When we talk about the OpenStack community and the platform overall, we think of it as an ecosystem that has three main parts. There's the users, which, that's why we exist. We create software for it to be used. There are the developers who are doing that, and then there's the ecosystem of companies who create commercial products and services. I think that's actually just as important. Right now, at the phase that we're at is how that is also reaching maturity. In the earlier days of OpenStack, I think that we had a lot of startups and we had a lot of activity, but the market didn't know how to consume it. It didn't understand what it was. I think that actually scared off some companies and it made a little bit of it more confusing, but as you get a few years into that, some of those companies succeed. Some of them don't succeed, but what you arrive at is a clear understanding of what the market wants, how the products should shape up. You get companies that stop trying to build it all themselves, kind of along with the not-invented-here, and they partner with people who know how to do opensource or they come up with new delivery models. I think that, actually, just as important is the maturing that we've seen in the commercial ecosystem because that leads to sustainable business models for these companies like Red Hat and Rackspace and others that then drive the development, but it also leads to clear adoption choices for users. >> One of the things that I think came out of last year at the Austin Summit was just where OpenStack fits in in this hybrid world. I think about GE, Rackspace, Red Hat, all of those companies clearly span both sides of it. Back to that winning-and-losing discussion we had at the beginning, it was always public cloud versus the private and the infrastructure piece. We know it's a multi-cloud, hybrid cloud world. How do you see that fitting in the conversations? The other piece on that, I see a large number, it was a 74% of deployment according to your latest survey, are not U.S. which is the inverse of we see such. North America's where we have a lot of public cloud adoption so does that fit in? What dynamics may be mixed up with you, Mark? >> A couple things, I would say that what we're finding is a few years ago, it was like, are we going to do cloud? Okay, now it's yes. Then it was, which app it's going to be? It's going to be as many as we can get. Then it was, are we going to do public or private? Well, we picked one. Now it's, okay, yes to everything. It's going to be cloud, we're going to put as many apps as we can. We're going to do public and private, so what happens next? Now, it's a question of where. Where do you place each workload? Some of them belong in the public cloud, some of them don't. Economics plays a big factor, performance, compliance, all the things that he said. The three C's, capabilities. I think that's the next discussion point that's happening inside of these boardrooms with CTOs and IT leaders at the major companies. How do we get a sophisticated strategy for where to place the workload? In terms of the geographic dynamic, I think one of the things Jonathan hit on yesterday is that it's just the nature of opensource that you never know where it's going to go. You just have no clue. Really, any new technology development, the market's going to go somewhere you could've never predicted like, the crystal ball is dead. It's really roadmaps or almost obsolete. It's like, you need to create a structure for how you respond and adopt to change 'cause you know it's coming. What's happened with OpenStack 'cause it's been used in all these new and different ways, and part of that's geographic. It's used to power cell phone networks in all these different countries. It's being used to fit within regulatory requirements in certain countries in data locality, both for performance and other reasons. I think that's why you see it, it's a big world out there. More than 74% of the world doesn't live in the United States, so I think we're closer to the real percentage out there. >> I want to jump in with one thing that you said that I might disagree with slightly. >> Mark: Okay, let's have a debate. On the right... >> Well, you said that these are the conversations that CTOs and CIOs are having is the strategy about how to do it. I think it's a conversation they should be having... >> Mark: Okay, fair point. >> But I think that what we see is, we see a lot of companies-- >> After they hear this, maybe they'll start talking about the right thing. >> I think that we see that, but we're kind of on the front edge of cloud adoption >> That's a good point. >> in the OpenStack community. >> Mark: I concede your point, sir. >> And I think that one of the issues that we see still is that people are thinking about it too simplistically, almost. As Larry Ellison famously said, "The IT industry is the most "fashion-driven industry out there." I think that right now, there are a lot of companies that they still think that there's some shiny object that's going to fix it all for them. Right now, it might be public cloud or containers. They've heard this word and they think that's... Never happened. Never happened in the history of IT ever before. There has never been at technology that came along and fixed the stuff before it. They all get edited. So, yes. We were talking with a CEO just this week, and it was real interesting to hear his perspective because he said that he actually thinks that the pendulum is going to shift back towards private cloud for people who run any significant amount of software. He goes, "I know that is not a popular viewpoint right now, "and if I said that to most other "technology C-level execs, "they would probably disagree with me and go, "No, cloud first, containers," but I think that just the fundamentals behind it, over the next few years, I don't know if it will shift all the way back. It may, who knows? But that's definitely something that I think is going to change from where the current fab might be. >> We'll have to have you back later to talk about how public is now moving to edge. Edge, of course, lives. >> Yeah. Oh, yes. >> Edge is the new data center, is what they have. I do have one final question before we let you go. That whole new shiny stuff? The last couple years, I'd been hearing, everybody's like, "Containers are going to subsume and take over. "DockerCon will be the new thing. "Oh wait, Kubernetes is just "going to dominate and take it over," and we have CubeCon and the CNCF. There's lots of Linux Foundation shows that do partnerships with what you do in Cloud Foundry Summit and on all these other pieces. What do you see as the future for the OpenStack Summit? Does it get pulled? This is being pulled into pieces, but for the show itself, for the foundation, and how it fits with that whole broad ecosystem of opensource. >> Well, the OpenStack Summit has always had some specific purposes. Again, this gets back to the fact that we are an opensource community and a foundation built to support that opensource community. The primary purposes of the OpenStack Summit are basically to strengthen those three pillars that I talked about earlier, especially on the software angle. Mark mentioned that this time around, we are doing what we call the forum. We used to have the Design Summit here, and we actually split that into two parts: one that's very technical and it's really gets down into implementation details. That's split out into a separate event. It happened in February, it's going to happen in September. What we did here is we set up time where developers and operators can get together and talk about strategic issues. Instead of talking about, "How do we fix this issue on line X of file Y?" they're talking about, "What should we use for distributed storage "and lock management? "Should we do Etcd? Should we do Zoo?" They're having more strategic conversation. That is a very critical piece for our community and for the people who run on it. We do a lot of education here. I think that what we've seen is that the OpenStack Summit is becoming more focused around users and the strategic needs of them as we build out the technology versus what it used to be. It originally started as a hacking event for 75 software developers. That's where I think it's going. Just to address the other point, all of the other opensource projects, a lot of them are here and we go to their events because, again, like we've been saying, it's not a zero-sum game. What we care about is that there are open alternatives and that they work well together. One of the things that I think we've seen and we've seen it proven over and over again with OpenStack is that getting communities together in person, those high-bandwidth interactions are actually really critical to getting work done and making things happen. I think they're all valuable and we're going to continue to participate in all of them. >> Yeah, well, Jonathan Bryce, Mark Collier. Really appreciate you joining us. I'm sure we'll see you at many of those other shows that The Cube will be covering throughout the years. Stay tuned with us, we've got lots more covered here at OpenStack Summit 2017 in Boston. Thanks for watching The Cube. (minimal electronic music)

(energetic music) >> Narrator: Live from Boston, Massachusetts it's the Cube, covering OpenStack Summit 2017 brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, Red Hat, and additional ecosystem support. >> Hi and welcome back to SiliconANGLE TV's production of the Cube here at OpenStack Summit 2017 in Boston. I'm Stu Miniman joined with my co-host for the week, John Troyer. As you can see behind us, the day 2 keynotes letting out. John, it's always interesting to look at these shows. They had some demos that were awesome, a couple of demos were the demo gods were not smiling on them. They had Edward Snowden live via Q&A. They had Brian Stevens, who we're going to be talking with in a little bit, the CTO of Google, who was on The Early Start. For me, they're a little up and down. There's some of the vendor pitches in there, people are like, "Oh I have a great demo," and then you say, "Come to my booth "and see a bunch of my sessions." So, a little bit uneven and disjointed, which has been a some of the feedback you get about OpenStack in general over the last few years as to all those pieces come together. But yeah, what are your early thoughts coming out of the day 2 keynote? >> Well, it was definitely a keynote focused at the OpenStack community. We started off with open source and talking about the importance of open source, which is a little bit odd, because everyone here know that. I did like the message that OpenStack was composed of different projects, that it was a piece of the puzzle, not the whole puzzle. You and I both noted VMware's Scott Lowe tweeted, "It's good to the OpenStack Foundation talking about being a part of the overall solution, not the overall solution." I mean, as one example, they mentioned using etcd, which is a distributed key value store, instead of writing their own. Etcd powers Kubernetes. Your would be insane in 2017 to rewrite or distribute a key value pair, sorb at this point. Because, it's just out there, it's mature. You know, OpenStack has been around for seven years. There's been a lot of ecosystem grown up around them. >> Yeah, yeah. A couple of pieces on that. One is, there was a message about like, oh I can now take the individual components of OpenStack. I could actually do that before. I've noted, I've talked to a number of software companies, that when you did down into what they're doing, oh what do you know, there's, you know, there's Syndrr. Or, there's, you know, something in there, just as when I use AWS, I can use some of the individual components, same thing with OpenStack. It's not a monolith. There are the individual pieces. But, they're highlighting that a little bit more. They're saying use some of the pieces. The other thing, on the open source in general, they noted that like, in the artificial intelligence machine learning space, like, everyone that you see is using open source. Everything from Google and TensorFlow, is one that gets highlighted a lot. Amazon made a big push at their show about what they're doing with, you know, some of the machine learning. I can't remember right now, the program on there. But, right, in some of these emerging spaces, open source is the defacto way to do that. We had, in one of the conversations we had yesterday with one of the Cysco Distinguished Engineers, you know, it used to be standards. Now, open source really drives a lot of that. I actually got a quick conversation with Martin Casado, who had, you know, worked on a lot of open source things before Vmware acquired him. And, now he's at Andreessen Horowitz looking at all the open source models. So, unfortunately Martin didn't have enough time to come on the program, but we've had him on many times. Yeah, so sometime he's going to do that. >> Stu, I have a question. >> Stu: Yeah. >> The message today of being part of an ecosystem and being a componentized, open source set of projects, does that detract or add to this conversation around OpenStack Core versus Big Tent? >> I think Big Tent is dying. We talked to a number of the participants yesterday and said it was a little overblown. It does not mean that some pieces might still get worked on, but it's the core components. And you know, when dug into the survey, how many of the pieces do we really need? We want to make sure the Core works. I can have that distribution if I want to do what is OpenStack. When they highlighted those components, it wasn't 27 different projects there. You know, I think it was a handful of like six. >> Yeah. >> That were there. So, you know Swift and Syndrr, some interesting, cool little graphics. It was ironic, I tell you. The little graphic there, that was like a scary looking bear. It's like, I wouldn't want to run into him in a cartoon alley. Uh, but (laughs). >> Yeah, I did tweet. Yeah, there was an angry bear, kind of a poisonous spider, and a horse's behind. So, I'm not quite sure about the marketing there. But (laughs). >> What is the message you're sending? But, there's some fun. We've got, you know, Mark Collier and Jonathan Bryce coming on soon. We can ask them, you know, was this the community? And are there just some people that have a funny sense of humor, and this is how they show it? >> I did love the demos in today's talk, Stu. I especially liked, they spun up, live on stage, 15 from scratch, OpenStack clouds. And then, had them all join a CockroachDB cluster. I thought that was kind of cool and amazing. >> Yeah, absolutely. You talk about that hybrid, multi cloud world, showing it, you know, in reality, how that works. Pretty neat, and you know, you can actually see some applicability as to how that would fit into a customer environment. And, kudos to all the people. I mean, these were live, no net demos, not Camtasia, not some prerecorded things. Because like, oh wait, this thing's not quite ready to be able to be bootable, or you know, let me come in. I mean, they're up there on stage doing it. The wifi all seemed to work fine. That wasn't a challenge, but yeah, it was pretty cool. >> Well again, trying to give the message that OpenStack is indeed not a science project. That it's live, that it's configurable, that it's stable, that it's installable. And, I think that kind of message of stability, and configurability, and simplicity maybe is one of the ones they're trying to hit here today. >> Yeah, last thing I want to hit on, John, is I want to get your opinion. We throw out the term "open" a bunch. And, I'm watching some of the other industry things, and they say "open" when they mean "choice," as opposed to "open" as in "open source." So, you know, we see Google here, and Google talks about open. So many things that are now open source, a lot of times started out as a Google white paper or something. As we all say, we're all using open source which Google was using 10 years ago, right? You know, MapReduce, and Borg, and Spanner, and some of those things eventually get their way out. I've got some view points on this, but love to get your take first, yeah. >> Well, I mean, definitely it was an homage to open source this morning. In some ways, it was kind of a dig at AWS and Amazon, which uses a lot of open source tools, but does not share back. You know, OpenStack is clearly open source, and they were emphasizing that. I don't know. What are your thoughts, Stu? >> Yeah, it's, customers now, it used to be if you said open source, you know, go back 10, 15 years, and it was like, ooh, no. Now, open source is, a lot of times, a plus, something that they're asking for. Many companies are contributing and engaging in that. OpenStack is a great example of companies that have participated, you know, in helping to build OpenStack. That being said, you know, I always go to, you know, what's the problem to be solved, what's the solution that solves it. And, if it happens to be a little bit pre standard, or not 100% open source, most companies are fine with that. We were at Red Hat Summit last week with the Cube though, and everything they do is 100% open source. They're building their business. Their customers are really happy. So, you know, open source still has a little bit of a double edged sword as to how you do it. But, you know, open source absolutely, there's no question of if open source, it's how much, and to what extent, and where it fits. >> Sure, there is an ecosystem of providers here. There's always lock-in when you make a technical choice. But, in this case, I think they've successfully were trying to show off that there is a choice of clouds. There is an open, a set of open source components that you can mix and match. And so, that actually ties in very well to the interview with Edward Snowden. >> Yeah, absolutely, yeah. It was, and last point. Edward Snowden, towards the end he said fear is, I think the quote was, "the most powerful weapon in the world today." From a political statement, is what he's doing. Fear in IT is a powerful weapon. We know that, you know, enterprise and inertia, you know, tend to go together. With my background in networking, I used to draw these timelines. And, say, from when the time the standard was done to when, you know, the early majority adopt, is often times a decade. So, the technology adoption, moving the operational, we know the people piece is always tough to do, moving my applications. We think people are definitely moving faster, but fear is definitely something that holds them back. What do you see, john? >> Sure, I think the through line of the whole morning was about choice and diversity. Edward Snowden talked about the centralization of information services like Facebook, Google, and Twitter. And I think, and I think by implication, Amazon. And, I think the message that he was giving to the OpenStack crowd was look, you are enabling a multitude of services and a multitude of clouds, and that actually is a lever, a cultural lever against the over centralization of commercial forces, which are a little bit outside people's control. >> Yeah, so John, thanks for helping me wrap up day one. As always, we welcome our audience to please send us feedback. John and I are both pretty active on Twitter, very easy to get in touch with. We are at so many shows. You can check out SiliconANGLE TV. See where we're at. If we're not at a show that you think we should be at, reach, there's contact information at the top. If there's guests that we should have on our program, we're always looking for feedback. Love to get, especially those end user stories, talking about with interesting startups. So, we've got two more days of live coverage. So, for John and myself, stay with us. And, thanks, as always, for watching The Cube. (exciting music)