>> Brought to your by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. (smooth music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's live coverage in Boston, Massachusetts. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante at AWS, Amazon Web Services' inaugural conference called re:Inforce. This is the first conference that Amazon Web Services is putting on around security, and we've got a great guest, we've got CISO, Brian Lozata, CISO for Dataminr, also on the advisory board for Twistlock, which was recently purchased by, well, intent to purchase by Palo Alto Networks, really cracked the code on DevSecOps, scaling up. Great to have you on, thanks for coming on. >> No, thanks for the opportunity. >> Love getting down and dirty and talking to CISOs, because you know, besides the, you know, which regime controls security, which is always evolving, a lot of the state-of-the-art activity going on in the security sector. Clearly the path of catching up to the DevOps Agility has been the big focus. >> It absolutely has. As innovation has been, you know, really pushed forward with cloud I think security's had to catch up and really start pushing towards innovation, looking at ways that we could be disruptive in the space with solving these problems that, look, CISOs, we've been facing this for 20 years and we're putting old technology at the same problem trying to fix it. Now that there's new services, you know, new emerging technology with cloud, we should be taking advantage of that and innovating ourselves in the security-- >> Brian, what's the most important story that should be told, or is being told, or isn't being told that needs to be told and covered by the media when it comes to the security industry, what's your view on this? >> The lack of talent, I mean, we're starving for talent. Cyber security's the only field in the world with negative unemployment. We just don't have the actual bodies to actually fill the gaps that we have, and in that lack of talent CISOs are starving. We're looking for the right things that, or tools to actually patch these holes and we just don't have it. Again, we have to force the industry to patch all of those resource gaps with innovation and automation. I think CISOs really need to start asking for more automation and innovation within their programs. >> It's a multidimensional challenge. I want to just get your thoughts on it. I mean, what pops into my head when you say that, I think "Oh, entrepreneurial." I'm an entrepreneur, it's like, "Oh, I can start a company." So, one, build something. >> Yeah. >> Build a tool, or work for a company, be talent within an enterprise, and then three, you know, be part of that, you know, game changing ecosystem community and do something. >> Yeah, how about all three, right? You could do all three, right? Like, I think security can't be thought of as that arm to go check things anymore. I think security needs to be thought of that arm that pushes innovation forward and helps the business, you know, move forward. We need to be business enablers, and the only way we're going to do it is by building something, like by shortening up the time to actually get code out there or get products out there. >> So, I want to dig into some of the Dataminr stuff we were just chatting before we came on camera, but I do want to dig into Twistlock because I think, you know, you've been in advise, you've seen that journey from day one, from seed financing to now where they're, you know, exiting to a large company. The success has been, very short period of time, only a couple years, five years or so, magic happens, it's a good thing. What happened, what's the story there? (chuckles) I mean, what's-- >> They found. >> Why so successful? >> Well, they found the gap. They found the gap that everybody's facing is the lack of talent to actually solve all of these issues with automation, and they helped fill that gap and fill it pretty quickly, right? So, I think it went from selling to taking orders very quickly because they actually helped solve a lot of, give visibility and put more security into actual the, you know, cloud-based platforms, and it helps companies modernize their tech stack quickly, right? That's what we're all about is pushing things out quickly, and to do it with security in mind. >> If you look at a typical budget pie in IT it's usually about two-thirds people. You know, one-third, you know, hardware, software services. Is it the same in your world, or is it different? >> Depends on the industry and it depends on the company. Some companies don't put security as that much of a focus, so you sometimes you are trying to get those dollars to actually fund your program, others it just depends on the risk, right, how the company's-- >> Well, if it's financial services they'l throw it in, no problem. >> Oh, they'll throw, you know, financial services will totally, totally do it, but if it's an industry or a company that hasn't had security in there and you're evangelizing security, hey, the first six, eight months you're going to be struggling for that budget. You're going to have to, you know, have that articulation that you, you know, speak on technical risk into business risk so you can fund your program, right? That's why the most important talent or skill that a security professional needs is communication skills. If you can't articulate technical risk into a business risk to fund your program, it's, you know, it's very hard for you to actually be successful in security. >> So, you speak wallet and geek, is that what... >> You have to. (chuckles) I think, yeah, (laughs) I think wallet and geek is definitely, it's a required skill in this space, probably more and more than others, right? The other thing is security, you can actually see how it equates to dollars, too, right? >> So, to whom are you speaking wallet, line of business, CEO, C-suite, CFO? >> I think it's definitely going to be up to C-suite. I think in more mature organizations you're going to get to the product line. You're going to get, you know, security into that product aspect, so as products are starting to be developed, those product managers and that product line can start funding their own security within that product development, right, and you need to have that communication style so that you can push that initiative through that product line. So, maturity-wise you'll get there, but I think initially it has to start at that C-suite at the board level. >> And how does that conversation start and what's the flow like, what's the key message that you're getting across? >> You have to talk about risk to that product line. Where's the risk that you can articulate to them and say if this product is impacted in this way, this is the damage to the brand, you know, financial, or financial damage. Once they see that and they can absolutely put dollars next to it, it'll absolutely help them fund that program when it comes to security. >> And you spend time quantifying that >> You have to. >> Is that right? >> Yeah, you absolutely have to. Everything nowadays needs to be quantified so you can put the appropriate amount of resources towards it, both in human capital and financial, right? >> How do you make that argument credible? Is it based on experience, you pull in different data sources from lines of business? >> It's different data sources. You've definitely got to leverage your experience, but it's looking at data lifecycle, where that data's being stored, process transmitted, the risk to losing it, and then quantify that type of data. There's different levels of sensitivity to data, right? Certain data, like you take a hit on your website, just the brochure site versus transactional data, different risk levels, different, you know, different impact to the brand, to the company. >> So, you're taking a portfolio view-- >> Absolutely. >> Weighing different values. >> Totally, you have to. >> And helping people understand where to put their bill. >> Yep. >> So, the CISO, the CIO, they care about production, what's in production, also on the DevOps ethos you've got Agility, you've got hackathons, so you have the kind of the cultural shift, so how do they mitigate the risk, from your standpoint how do you view this, and what do other CISOs think, because you want to foster that creativity to get that incubating going for new ideas, hackathons for instance, great tactic in the DevOps community. We're seeing that now happen in security-- >> Totally. >> Where the people who are close to the action are getting involved in a very DevOps way, but they're kind of not getting sanctioned clearance from the boss, but that's the production side, so again, Ops, different. How is that migration or transition between I've got a hackathon, this feature that if we roll this out this could really help us with our visibility intro threats or better quality alerts. I'm just making that up, but you see where innovation's going to come from, at the same time dealing with all the other pillars of the compliance, and audit, and security, and blah, blah, blah, all that stuff that's in production. How do CISOs deal with this? >> So, it's taking a view, look, a risk-based approach to that entire lifecycle and seeing where is the biggest risk, and then to fix that risk where the gap is and to get into that innovation piece. At my previous company we developed what's called security as code. We had a big gap that we were finding a lot of issues out there with our environment that we were finding three and four days after they were actually rolled out, so we were able to take advantage of AWS services so that we could actually get visibility live, and then we did it we actually remediated the issues with Lambda functions, right? That was innovation, we were able to do it. Now, convincing DevOps to put it into production, that took some time as well, but it was that partnership and showing them we're not going to be bothering you. >> Ballpark timeframe-- >> Yep. >> Ballpark a timeframe to invention, innovation to selling it through to production, ballpark? >> Maybe a month. >> What's the difference between infrastructure as code and security as code? >> So, infrastructure as code is you're putting out the environment, you're creating that VPC, you're setting up the routes. Security as code, what we're calling security as code is that it finds an issue with that environment and it automatically fixes it with a Lambda function or something like that, right? So, it could find the vulnerability, it knows what the fix is, and it automatically goes and fixes it. That's the benefit of cloud, immutable technology. You can fix things pretty quickly. >> Yeah. >> Well, let's, now that we have that ability, let's innovate on security so that we do do those fixes instead of waiting days for it to come back. >> And the secret sauce for that comes from what? >> Developing-- >> Homegrown math, doing. >> Homegrown, homegrown. >> No problem >> You have, like the, I think cloud has allowed emerging technology and security to get back into being innovative and not just coming in to protect or to have visibility. Like security engineers are now saying, "Now we can create," right? AWS has that, the logo, what is their motto, "Build on," right, well that should apply to security practitioners as well. We should be building just as quickly as developers. >> And by the way, the old model was hire a firm to come in, buy a product. >> Totally, yes. >> Now you're saying is let's code up some security. >> Let's do it ourselves. >> Because the practitioners are close to the action-- >> Absolutely. >> They have the innovative device, doesn't take a lot of time to whip something up, find the discovery... >> And do it. And the other thing is we spent years buying tools, buying tools, buying tools. Tools were built to solve one use case. Who knows better their environment than CISOs that are working in it, right? So, let's build tools that our customers-- >> It's like a tool shed, open up the doors, like "I bought that 10 years ago. "We're still amortizing that." It's like there's too many tools. >> Too many tools, so let's build what's appropriate for the environment based on our knowledge, right, of being working in it. >> Describe a great day for a security practitioner. >> (chuckles) A great day is that I don't get called at two in the morning, right? I think every day is a great day in security, and I'm going to tell you why, because it's growing so quickly I think organizations are starting to realize the value of security, that security is a value prop to a customer or to a client. They like to see security being baked into the products, so I think it is good for security to see it grow. I love to see that AWS has now invested in re:Inforce. I think it was about time. I had been going to re:Invent for, I don't know, maybe four or five years now, and I saw that grow and it was absolutely time for this, so-- >> It's interesting-- >> It's good. >> You hear the chatter, you hear the chatter also around security not, not just being not being a call center and being strategic, which clearly it is, because one breach and you go out of business, that's a business model problem. But as a revenue generator, seeing a trend now-- >> Totally. >> Of people who are building in-house because they have their own problems are taking the Amazon playbook. Do it for yourself first and then expose that out as a service-- >> Totally. >> With Marketplace. Dave McCann's kicking butt over there. He's got services, so the idea is that if people have a good foundation you're just buying services. >> Totally. >> Not tools. >> Yep, and investing in and buying services, not tools, and then pushing those, your resources and your talent to actually be creative and innovative, and be just as hungry when they see new services come out. I love when developers come up to us and say, "There's this new service that's "going to launch tomorrow, AWS is." Can I mess around with it? Can I throw, like I like to see that because then we can get insight into it and say yes, right? Fear is a greater threat to progress than hardship. I don't want my developers to have fear. I want them to feel, "Security team's got my back." The platform has the-- >> Yeah. >> ability to visualize it, so let's move forward with that. >> So, let's talk about fear, uncertainty, and doubt, AKA known as FUD. >> FUD, yeah. >> All right. So, it used to be that the suppliers would put FUD onto the customer saying, "No, don't buy that other product." You could, you know, use that fear. It's now flipping around with CISOs, you know, the way we're hearing that one of the mandates is to get the supplier account from hundreds to single or double digits, and so the fear is being pushed back out, saying if you don't have this kind of stack integration, this kind of API support, you're not going to be a vendor. >> Yeah. >> This is shifting. >> You agree? >> 1000% agree. I think we needed to, like we should not have taken our tempo for so many years from vendors. They were dictating our programs at that particular point. Now we can take control of our program, saying we don't want to partner with you if you don't integrate with the way we've built our program, that we know our environment, right? So, I think we're taking a little bit more control of our destiny and our platforms versus just taking the tempo from vendors. >> And the key here is having that platform built-- >> Absolutely. >> To start thinking through the critical thinking around tech stack, purpose, and this is their shift, this is what, and some families aren't there yet. They, because they have to build it up. >> They have to build it up, and-- >> How long does it take to do that? >> The most important thing to build that up, talent. Look, you're only as good as the talent you have. If you don't have the talent to build that platform up you're going to be stuck in that vendor loop forever. I mean-- >> Had a CISO saying to me privately, "Love multi-cloud, love the vision, "but honestly I'm not investing in Diamond multi-cloud "until I get my team on one cloud, "and I'll use secondary clouds for, you know, "either rollover, backup, or some other point feature, "or inherited workload through an M&A or other project. "No big deals, shadow IT, but in terms of my talent "I don't want to have three different teams. "I want one team to build the stack "and continue to think about automation, "then we'll get to multi-cloud when it's ready." Your thoughts to that. >> I 1000% agree. I think that we need to get one cloud right first before we start thinking about putting our talent, our limited talent resources, again, everybody's starving for talent, into investigating and remediating other cloud issues. I think you definitely have to get one thing right first before moving over. I do think, though, that the time's going to come where there's going to be a lot of companies doing, you know, production workloads in multiple clouds. I, you know, I'm actually eager to see that day, and see it publicly and see how it's being managed, right? >> Well, the one who cracks that nut is going to win big lottery ticket. >> Oh, totally, totally. >> Metrics. I want to quickly defrost on metrics. Metrics is something that if you, if you, if you serve the metrics master too hard you could actually miss out on what your real purpose is. The joke I heard was that you could turn into Chernobyl, like that movie that's on Netflix, or Prime, I forget which show. Oh, it's on HBO actually, it's an HBO series where they were pressing buttons. They had no idea what was going on with the reactor, it blew up, and the rest is history. That's the metrics problem and challenge, isn't it? What's your thoughts on metrics? >> I agree, I'm not a fan of metrics. I don't think security programs should be either built or measured against metrics. I don't think metrics really provide too much detail behind any of that. Metrics are just there I think to provide a little bit of insight of where you could double-click and actually do a little bit more diligence, but they should not be measured, they should not be used to measure your program. I don't run my program on metrics. It's not like I'm escalating metrics, either, up to the board or anything like that. Providing relevant data and how that data impacts the business from a security perspective is how I like to escalate, not putting up, you know, charts or anything like that of what, you know, how many vulnerabilities were remediated. Guess what, you did your job. I don't want to put a metric up there that actually says, you know, something like that. I want to show some real value with some real data. >> So, what are you communicating to the board specifically? >> How we've integrated information security, the security program, into the workflow without slowing down the business. I think that's the key part, and how, security at the end of the day it's a culture change, right, and you are changing behavior, right? So, how you're able to do that without slowing down production, especially in technology companies, because you don't want to slow down that development pipeline, that's a key metric to put out there. >> Mm-hm. >> And we've been able to, you know, enable static and dynamic code analysis without slowing things down. Things are still getting to product at that time, or using container security for our infrastructure so that it takes that out of the developer's mind when they're actually building out a, you know, new environment, right? >> Digital transformation equations, people, process, technology. >> Totally. >> Heard that over and over, and it's cliche, but the people part, okay, you could get more people, totally agree, technology, plenty of tools and services, that's a huge opportunity, but the process is where the focus has been, and I heard a quote earlier on theCUBE today. It says, "Process is a reflection of your culture." >> True. >> And a lot of those cultures won't yield the process control to either CISOs or teams. Your thoughts to that comment and where that kind of goes. That's the key breakdown on digital transformation, isn't it? >> It is, it is. That is true, I think the one thing that CISOs need to remind themselves is when they introduce themselves to the organization they need to be a customer service organization. CISOs need to be available to the users and to the business, and offer their services as a partnership instead of as a mandate. I think that warms the waters a little bit for that behavioral change and that culture change so that process can change into the new, innovative way of actually pushing security as code and infrastructure as code as the new way of actually doing business. >> And success has got, is contagious. >> Totally. >> Like at Twistlock. You're advising that company. Boom. >> Yeah. Absolutely is contagious, and showing those type of examples actually throughout the business actually help, you know what I'm saying? Breaking down those old silos of security is viewed is important, right, so. >> You kind of implied before in the earlier days vendors sort of controlled the table. You were sort of beholden to their way of doing things. Steve Schmidt today made the statement that, you know, all the negative fear factor is not helping our industry. It really, the state of cloud security, anyway, is good, the union is strong. Do you agree with that and are there other things that vendors are doing that drive you crazy as a practitioner that they shouldn't be doing? >> So, two great questions. I think the first one, I think cloud security absolutely is, does exist, and it gives power back to the CISOs, so they can actually make more controlled decisions over their environment, you know, instead of being beholden to vendors. I think understanding the shared responsibility model between a company in the cloud is crucial for CISOs to make those decisions. >> Mm-hm. >> And I think for years that was misunderstood and that's why it took time, probably, to migrate to the cloud or to be born in the cloud initially, but I think once that's understood it empowers, you know, the CISOs and the technology organizations, I think that's one. On your second questions, I think everybody in the world has vendor fatigue. I think vendors, what drives me nuts about all of them is that they say they integrate with everything and that they're going to give me more visibility than before. Great, man, like that's what everybody's been doing for the past 20 years. They're giving me a lot of information. I want them to fix things, don't give me alerts. Don't give me alarms unless you're going to say, "Here's the alert, here's the alarm, "here's the automated script that you can "put into your environment to fix it." Knowing that every CISO in the world is starving for talent, we don't have the resource to double-click on that, due diligence, and write it, do it for me. I think vendors need to start innovating and stop doing the same thing that we've been doing for the past 20 years. >> So, you're seeing, furring from that is a lot of incrementalism, kind of taking safe bets, and really you're looking for a step function. >> Totally, I want vendors to take a more aggressive approach in their innovation, I don't want, so you're giving me more alerts that I've seen in different shapes, in different sizes from different vendors. Tell me how you're going to fix it, or fix it for me. That's what I really want, we need to push, we need to exceed that more from vendors, and look, since we're not getting it it's making us, or I'm happy to do it actually, is to start innovation. >> Do it. >> And doing it ourselves, right? >> Yeah. >> So, it, I'm investing more in resources, in talent, doing it that way-- >> Yeah. >> Instead of outsourcing and getting a vendor, so-- >> And that's a trend that's happening more and more. >> Totally. >> And that's an indictment on the community itself and the vendors. >> Yeah. >> Brian-- >> We need to exceed more from the vendors. >> Thanks so much for coming on. Great insights, profound commentary. Great to have CISOs on theCUBE, thanks for sharing. It's theCUBE's live coverage, Boston. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Day one of two days of CUBE coverage of the inaugural AWS re:Inforce conference, we'll be right back. (smooth music) People want to work for a mission--

>> From Sand Hill Road in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Presenting, the People First Network, insights from entrepreneurs and tech leaders. >> Hello everyone I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, we are here in Sand Hill Road up at Mayfield Venture Capital Firm for their 50th anniversary, their People First Network series, produced with theCUBE and Mayfield, I'm John Furrier, with Bill Schlough, the Chief Information Officer of the San Francisco Giants, CUBE alumni, great to see you thanks for joining me today for this People First Series we're doing with Mayfield's 50th anniversary, thanks for coming in. >> Good to be here, John. >> So, been a while since we chatted, it's been a year, A lot's happening in tech, you can't go a year, that's like seven dog years in tech, lot happening, you're managing, as the CIO for the Giants, a lot of things going on in baseball, what's the priorities for you these days, obviously, you guys, great social, great fan experience, what's new for you, what's the priority? >> Man, there's always something new. It's what I love about it, this'll be my 20th season with the Giants comin' up. And, it never gets old, there's always new challenges. On the field, in the seats, off the field, you name it. As we look toward next year, really excited about bringin' in a new video board, which we haven't publicly announced, maybe I just did publicly announce, we're breaking news on theCUBE today. So we're puttin' in a new video board, it'll be over three times the size of the one we have today. That's big news, we're doing a lot of exciting things in the ticketing world. The ticketing world is really transforming right before our eyes in terms of the way fans buy tickets. It's changed a lot. Once up on a time you could call a game a sellout, and we sold out 530 straight games at AT&T Park, but really there's no such thing as a sellout anymore I mean, at any point you can get a great ticket, so we have to adapt to that and change the product that we're delivering to fans, so making some changes on the ticketing front, the fan experience, the ballpark with the video board, and another thing that's changing a lot is the way fans consume our game when they're not at the ballpark. It's rare that you're going to see somebody sit on a couch for three plus hours and watch a game continuously anymore. Fans are consuming through mobile devices, streaming, catching clips here and there, all different methods, and it's fun to be a part of that, because, fans still love the game, but they're just consuming it in different ways. >> Yeah, I love having chats with you on theCUBE because one of the things that have always been the same from nine years doing theCUBE is, the buzzword of consumerization of IT has been out there, overused, but you're living it, you have a consumer product, the ultimate consumer product, in Major League Baseball, and the Giants, great franchise, in a great city, in a great stadium, with a rabid fanbase, and they know tech, so you have all the elements of tech, but the expectation of consumers, and the experiences are changing all the time, you got to deliver on the expectations and introduce new experiences that become expectations, and this is the flywheel of innovation, and it's really hard, but I really respect what you guys are doing over there, and that's why I'm always curious, but, always, the question comes back to, is, can I get faster wifi in the stadium? (laughs) It's always the number one question >> It's funny that you ask that because it is AT&T Park, you know, so, honestly, we got to check that box, and we've had to for years, all the way back to when we first rolled it out, way back in 2004 when we first rolled out wifi in the park, people weren't asking for it then, people were coming to the ballpark with a laptop and plugging a card into it, and there were about a hundred of them that were accessing it, but today, what's interesting is, who knows what next, but we're not talkin' about wifi as much, wifi is just kind of, expected, you got to have it, like water. You're talkin' about 5G networks, and new ways to connect. Honestly, this past season, our wifi usage in terms of the number of fans that use wifi, what we call the take rate, the percentage of fans, was actually down 30% from the previous year. Not because we had less fans in the stadium, because this is the take rate, a percentage of fans in the stadium, went down, because AT&T made some massive investments in their cellular infrastructure at the ballpark, and if you're just connecting, and you got great bandwidth, you don't feel the need to switch over to wifi, so who knows what the future will hold? That's a great point, and you see the LTE networks have so much more power, it used to be you needed wifi to upload your photos, so you'd go in, log in, and if they auto login that's cool, but people don't need to. >> Not with photos, what they need it now for is when we see it really maxing out is events, like our Eagles concert, or Journey concert, or a really big game, like opening day, or honestly, Warriors playoffs game, 49ers football games, that's when folks are streamin' to video. For streamin' to video, they're still goin' to that wifi. Yeah, that's the proven method, plus they don't want to jack up their charges on the AT&T site, but I won't go there, Let's talk about innovat-- Most say unlimited, I will go there, most say unlimited these days. >> Really, I got to find that plan, my daughter's killin' me with her watchin' Netflix on LTE, I tell her. Innovation is changing, I want to get your thoughts on this, 'cause I know you're on the front end of a lot of innovations, you do a lot of advising here at Mayfield. The VC's always trying to read the tea leaves, you're living it, what's the innovation formula look like now for you 'cause as you're sittin' in your staff meetings, as you look at the team of people around you, you guys want to foster, you do foster, innovation culture. What's the formula, what do you guys do when you have those meetings, when everyone's sitting around the table sayin', what do we do next? "How do we create a better experience? "How can we get better fans, and better product "in their hands as fast as possible?" What's your strategy? >> You know, it's funny, people talk about the secret sauce for innovation, what's the formula? I would say, for us, it's really a symbiotic relationship with a lot of things, first of all, where we are, geographically, we've got folks like Mayfield, down the street, and many others, that we can talk to, that are, when innovation is happening, when the startups are incubating, they're being funded by these guys, a lot of times they are here, and our phones are ringing off the hook with a lot of folks so my formula for innovation is answer the phone and take the meetings, but, to be honest, that creates its own problems, because there's so many great ideas out there, if you try to do all of them, you're going to fail at all of them. You got to pick a very small few to try to experiment with, give it a shot, we just don't have the bandwidth, we only have 250 full-time staff on the business side. For us, geographically, you have to really be laser-focused and say okay, there are so many great ideas out here, which are the three or four that we're going to focus on this year, and really give it a try, that's really going to drive, propel our business forward, enhance our product on the field, whatever it might be, but I'll tell you where it really truly starts. It's from the top with our CEO. And, I've had a few different bosses over the years, but with the Giants, our CEO is singularly focused on all of us doing things folks have never done before regardless of what business unit you're in. Whether you're in ticketing, finance, marketing, sales, what drives him, and drives all of us, is innovation. And his eyes glaze over when I talk to him about cost-cutting, and his eyes can glaze over really fast. But when I talk to him about doing something no one's ever done before, that's when he sits forward in his chair, he gets engaged, and I just have a great boss, Larry Baer, he's been with us for 25 years wit the Giants, and he is the driver for it, he creates the culture from the top, where all of us, we want to impress him, and to impress him, you got to do sometin' nobody's ever done before, and what's even more interesting is there are some challenges and some changes talking place across our industry, as I said before, ticketing and other areas, and I've sat in meetings with him where somebody might raise their hand and say, "But this is happening across the industry, "so it's just a macro trend," and he'll get upset, be like, "I don't care about macro trends. "We are here in the Bay Area, "we're the San Francisco Giants, "we're going to do it our way." >> And so when you do it your way, he promotes risk-taking, so that's a great culture. What are some of the things you have tried that were risky, and/or risque, or maybe an experiment, that went well, and maybe ones that didn't go well, can you share some color commentary around that? >> Sure, over 20 years we've had some of all of those. I would say, I've had some real scary moments, our culture is collaborative, but I wouldn't call it combative, but we all have strong opinions, a lot of us have been there a long time, and we have strong opinions and so we'll battle, internally, a lot, but then once the battle is over, we'll all align behind the victory. Thinking back, one of the most stressful times for me at the ballpark was related to wifi, when we decided to take our antennas and put 'em under people's seats. No one had ever done that before, and there were two major concerns with that. One is, honestly are people going to get cancer from these antennas under their seats, it's never been done before, what's going to happen, and whether it's going to happen or not, what's the perception of our fans going to be, because, these are, the bread and butter is, the golden goose here, all the fans, so, yeah it's great that they're going to be, have faster connection here at AT&T Park, but if they think they're going to get cancer, they're going to cancel their season ticket plans, we got to problem. Number two is, we're taking away a little storage space also, under the seats, so it was very controversial internally, we did all of our research, we proved that having a wifi antennae under your seat is the equivalent to having a cell phone in your pocket, most people do that, so we're pretty safe there, and from the storage space perspective, honestly, it actually elevates your stuff, if somebody spills a Coke behind ya, it'll fall all around your purse, which is sitting on top of that wifi antenna so we came up with a good solution, but that was an example of something that was really controversial >> So beer goes on the antennae not your bag. (laughs) >> Exactly, your bag stays dry, we found a way to spin that but, there have been so many, I can go way back in time, back to the days when it was the PalmPilot that ruled the day instead of the apple >> Well you guys also did a good job on social media, I got to give you guys props, because, you're one of the first early adopters on making the fan experience very interactive. That was, at that time, not viewed as standard. Yeah, built the @Cafe at our ballpark, which is still there really to try to bring social media to the fans. >> I think you're the first ballpark to have a kale garden, too, I think. >> That's a little off topic, but yes, driven by one of our players, who's a big kale fan, yeah, the garden out in center field. >> So sustainibility's certainly important, okay, I got to ask the question around your role in the industry, because one of the things that's happening more and more in Major League Baseball and certainly as it crosses over to tech her at Mayfield Venture Capital, there's a lot of collaboration going on, and it's a very people-centric culture where, it used to be people would meet at conferences, or you'd do conference calls, now people are in touch in real time, so these networks are forming. It takes a village to create innovative products, whether you're inside the Giants, or outside in the ecosystem, how have you personally navigated that, and can you share some experiences to the folks watching, how you became successful working in an environment where it's collaborative inside the walls of the San Francisco Giants, but also outside? >> %100, the topic is near and dear to my heart, and from when I started with the Giants, that's what I love about our industry We compete on the field, and only on the field. When you look at who the Giants competitors are, from a business perspective, honestly the Dodgers are not a competitor from a business perspective. The A's are barely a competitor from a business perspective. We got a lot of competitors and very few of them are in our actual industry, so we collaborate all day, and it's been amazing, I can count on one hand, across all of sports, folks who have not been collaborative. There's a very small group of teams, your favorite team, the Boston Red Sox, are not on that list, they are very collaborative, but their arch rival, well there's a few others out there that may be less collaborative, but most of them are highly collaborative, from top down, and so, what I did from when I first started the first trip I made, was to Cleveland. And this was many years ago, Cleveland Indians had a reputation of being very progressive so I called up my counterpart there, I said, "I'm new to the industry, can I come out, "can I learn from you?" And that's where it started, and ever since, every year, we travel to two cities, I take at least four of my staff, to two cities each year and we meet with all the sports teams in those cities. This year, we went to Milwaukee and we met with the Brewers, and we did the Packers as well. Every year, over the 20 years we've visited pretty much every professional sports city, and we just go through it again, and always, red carpet, open door, and you build those face-to-face relationships, that you can pick up the phone and make the call, in a few weeks we're all going to get together in Denver at our MLB IT Summit, my job at the IT Summit every year is I host the golf classic, so I bring all the golfers, the hackers, the duffers out, and we have a great time on the golf course and build those relationships and again, the only thing that we don't really talk about that much is the technology we use to enhance the product on the field. Everything else is fair game. >> So share the business side, but the competitive advantage, where the battle's really having Dodger and Giants obviously on the field, highly competitive-- >> But what's cool about that is then I can meet with the other sports teams to talk about that, so I'll leave the teams nameless, but we've had some awesome collaborative discussions with NBA teams especially to talk about what they're doing to assess talent, and there's no competition there. >> So there's kind of rules of the road, kind of like baseball, unwritten rules. >> Right. >> So talk about the coolest thing that you guys have done this year, share something that you personally feel proud of, or fans love, what were some of the cool things this year that pops out for you? >> Sure, the technology that we invested in this year that I thought was a game-changer, we saw, we experimented with last season, but this year, we've been experimenting with VR and AR a little bit. But, a technology that we thought was really cool is called 4DReplay, it's a company out of Korea. And we saw them, we did an experiment with them, and then we implemented them for the full season this year and we've seen them at some other venues as well, the Warriors tried them at the Playoffs, but we had 'em full year and what we did was they put in about 120 cameras, spaced approximately five feet apart, between the bases. 120 of 'em, and they focus on the pitcher and the batter, so when you have a play, you can 3D, or 4D, 4D rotate around that play and watch the ball as it's moving off the bat, and get it from that full perspective, it's awesome for the fan experience, it gives them a perspective they never have, I love watching the picture, because you can see that hand, in full 4D glory pronating as it comes through on every pitch, if you can watch that hand carefully you can predict what kind of pitch it is, it's something that a fan has never had access to before, we did that for the first time this year. >> I had a new experience, obviously you see Statcast on TV now, a lot of this overlayed stuff happening, kind of creates like an esports vibe to the table. Esports is just coming. >> And it's just the beginning >> Your thoughts on esports, competitor, natural evolution, baseball's going to be involved in it, obviously, thing in the emerging technology's looking interesting, and the younger generation wants the hot, young... Sure, we feel like our game has been around a long time, and it still is, the rules haven't changed that much, but fans still enjoy it, but they just consume it differently and our game can be incredibly exciting in moments, but, there's also some gaps in there when you can build relationships. Some of the younger generation may fill those gaps with watching somethin' else, or two other things on their devices, but that's okay, we embrace that at the ballpark, but in terms of the emergence of esports, and the changing demographic of our fanbase, what we're trying to do is just package our game differently. One thing I'm really excited about, and startin' to see, we're in the early days, I consider with virtual reality, we experiment with it, maybe two or three years ago we've been doing some stuff with it, but I'd say it feels like we're in the second or third inning with virtual reality, where we're really going, and I've seen Intel doin' some of this stuff, I was out working with Intel in Pyeongchang, at the Olympics this past year, working with their PR team, and where it's going I can already visualize what this is going to be like, this concept of volumetric video. Where, it's not about having that courtside seat, in basketball, or that seat right behind home plate, it's about being wherever you want to be, anywhere in the action. And to me it's not about doin' it live, because in baseball, you don't know where the ball's going to go, it's about doin' it, replay, right after, okay, that ball was shot to Brandon Crawford, he made the most amazing diving play, picked it up, gunned it to first, where do you want to watch that from? Everybody's different, some people might want to watch it from right behind first base, some people might want to watch it right Brandon Crawford, behind the batter, with volumetric video and the future of VR, you'll be able to do that, and this esports generation, this fan's instant gratification want, unique experiences, that's what's going to deliver it. >> This is such an immersive environment, we're looking at this kind of volumetric things from Intel, and you got VR and AR, immersion, is a new definition, and it's not, I won't say putting pressure, it's evolving the business model, who would've thought that DraftKings and these companies would be around and be successful, that's gambling, okay, you now you got that, your VR so the business model's changing, I've been hearing even token and cryptocurrency, maybe baseball cards will be tokenized. So these are kind of new, crazy ideas that might be new fan experience and a business model for you guys. Your thoughts on those kind of wacky trends. >> That's why I love working with companies like Mayfield 'cause they're seeing the future before we see it, and I love being where we are, so we can talk to them, and learn about these companies. Another example, along those lines is, how are fans going to get to the ballpark five years from now, and how do we adapt to that because we're doing a major development right adjacent to the ballpark, we've got 4,000 parking spaces. Are we going to need those five years from now? Well we're going to build out that whole parking lot, we're going to put a structure in there. But five, ten years from now, we're building that structure so it can be adaptable, because, is anyone going to need to park? Is parking going to be like typing, you know on a typewriter, 10, 15 years now because everybody is in either self-driving cars, or ride shares, and the cars just, poof, go away, and they come back when you need 'em. >> Like I said, everything that's been invented's been on Star Trek except for the transporter room, but maybe they could transport to the game. >> We could use that in San Francisco. >> Bill, got to ask you about your role with Mayfield, because one of the things I've always been impressed with you is that you always have a taste for innovation, you're not afraid to put the toe in the water or jump in the deep end where the technology is, these guys are lookin' for some trends, too. How do you advise some of these guys, how do you work with Mayfield, what's the relationship, how are they to work with, what's the intersection between Mayfield and you? >> Well the one thing that Mayfield does is they put together a conference, each Summer, that I love comin' down to, and I get to meet a lot of my counterparts and we talked about meeting with my counterparts in sports, but I love meetin' with my counterparts across all industries, and Mayfield makes that possible, they bring us all together with some really interesting speakers on a variety of topics not all directly tech related, so it's a great opportunity for me to just get outside of the daily routine, get outside the box, open my mind, and I just have to drop down the road to do it. So that's an example, another thing is, Mayfield, and other firms will come to me, and just say, "Hey, here's a technology we're evaluating, "they think it would be a great fit in sports, "what do you think?" And so, I can give them some valuable feedback, on company's they're evaluating, companies will come to us, and I might throw them their way, so it's really a two way street >> Great relationship, so you're a sounding board for some ideas, you get to peek into the future, I mean, we've interviewed entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs here, it's a seven, eight year build out, so it's almost like an eight year peek into the future. >> Yeah, and it's super valuable, especially given where we are geographically and our inclination toward being on the leading edge. >> I want to just end the segment by sayin', thanks for comin' in, and I want you to show the ring there, 'cause I always, can't stop starin' at the hardware, you got the ring there, the world champion. >> It's a few years old at the moment, we're going to have to get a new one sometime soon. >> We got to work on that, so is there any cutting edge technology to help you evaluate the best player, who you lookin' at next year, what's goin' on? What's the trades goin' on, share us-- >> Are we off the record now, 'cause I have a feeling you're asking this for personal reasons, for your squad, so. >> I'm a Red Sox fan of the AL, obviously, moved here 20 years ago, big fan of the Giants, I love comin' to the games, you guys do a great job, fan experience is great, you guys do great job and I'm looking forward to seeing a great season. >> Thanks, yeah, hope springs eternal this time of year, we always block off October and expect to be busy, but when we have it back, it just gives us an opportunity to get a head start on everybody. >> Well Bill, thanks for coming in, Bill Schlough, CIO for the San Francisco Giants, here on Sand Hill Road talkin' about the 50th anniversary of Mayfield, and this is the People First Network, getting ideas from entrepreneurs, industry executives, and leaders. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Live from Bahrain, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit Bahrain. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, we're here live in Bahrain in the Middle East. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage, here for the first time, covering Amazon Web Services, AWS' Public Sector, and the breaking news around their new region that they announced a while ago, going to be deployed here in the early 2019 time frame. An Amazon region really is the power source of digital. It has a track record of creating so much value and innovation. And I'm here with Teresa Carlson, who's the head-- she's the chief of public sectors, she's the head of Amazon Web Services' Public Sector globally, except for China but that's a different territory. Teresa Carlson, it's great to see you. >> It's so great to have you here with us, oh my goodness. >> So I got to say, you told me a few years ago we're going to really go international, we're doubling down outside North America, we're going to have regions, Andy Jassy, the CEO of AWS, said the same. This is the strategy of Amazon. But the Middle East was your baby. This was something that you did spend a lot of time on, and a lot of decisions. Everyone wants to know why Bahrain? Why did you choose this region? And what do you see happening? And how's it going? >> Well, you know, it's interesting because, well I have had a lot of people say why Bahrain as the first region that you've put in the Middle East? Because it doesn't seem like the first place somebody would choose. And the thing that kept coming back to me is Jeff has always said we're willing to be misunderstood for long periods of time. And I think this is probably one of those times where people just didn't quite understand why Bahrain. Well, here's why. I met the Crown Prince, we talked about digital innovation and the economy here and he immediately got that they needed to go through a digital transformation. They are not a country that has a lot of oil. They are a smaller country and they really are a working class country that is looking for how do they have sustainment? And they've done things in the past around financial services that really got them going. They would spear head things. And I think he saw the opportunity that this could help them jump-start the economy and they could kind of be a hub for innovation. So they created the right policies around Cloud First. They created the right telecommunications policy. They were one of the first to deregulate. They had good pricing for utilities. They were friendly toward businesses. And they had a culture that we felt could fit well with us, as well as our partner community. >> Couple of observations, being the first time here, so thank you for inviting us and allowing us to cover you here. One, they're a learning culture, they speak multiple languages, why not add programming to it, software? Two, they like to move fast. They just built a track in 14 months, they're not afraid to go faster. >> They go fast. >> That's Amazon. Amazon, you guys move at a speed of a whole 'nother cadence. And then, my observation again, compared to other areas as I look around is that the percentage of the population of Bahrainians is large, is a lot of people live here, that are native, and they're talented. >> Well, one of the things you said that I think is key is that they move fast, they're used to being frugal on how they do things and they're very scrappy. And that really fits with their culture because, again, they have to do things different than some of the other minimalist countries who are-- they're not quite as rich. But they have this culture of really moving fast and they took down blockers like crazy. I mean, as we came in and were making a decision on-- >> What were some of those blockers? Like, stumbling blocks, are they more hurdles? What were they? >> They were stumbling blocks but they were-- we had to really come in and talk about why telecommunications, policies and pricing had to change because in an old-school model of Telco, there's a lot of big charges. And when you have a digital economy coming in, if you think about, you have a few transactions for a lot of money in an old-school. In a new-school world, you have millions of transactions for a little bit, 'cause you've got to be able to transact a lot, and that's why your telecommunications industry's got to be set up as well as you want it deregulated. They'd already deregulated it so they worked with us to open it up, to set the policies, and now Batelco, who is one of our major telecommunications partners here, is doing manage services on AWS, they've gotten all kinds of people trained. And it's just an example of how they look at an opportunity and say we have got to innovate and make changes if we want to have a sustainment in the 21st century economy. >> And you guys are bringing a lot of goodness to the table, they're quick learners, they're smart, they've got their entrepreneurial vibe. They're not afraid to put some funds of funds together and get some professional investment going on. So that's going to level up the entrepreneurship base. The question is when will the region be ready? How's that going? It's under construction. We've been hearing it's been impacting and, frankly, bringing in to this country an agenda item of sustainability and sustainable energy. Well, why would they need sustainable energy if they've got oil? >> Well they-- (laughs) [John] - Why burn it if you can sell it? That's what the British Prime Minister-- >> Well they do and they've had a new find but I think they have to get to the new oil that they've found but they're not-- I think, what I understand, they're not banking on that, they're going to bank on a digital economy. So they know this is kind of a guaranteed way to really grow what they're doing and bringing out outside others. There's two big elements they're doing. One is they're creating policies for data that allows other countries to put their data here safely and with the right laws. That is game changing. So that's one big thing they're doing. The second thing is they have the spirit of teaching and training so they're getting other countries to come in and talk to them about what they're doing. And remember, John, they're already moving the government to the Cloud and they don't even have their Cloud here yet. So they've done all their homework and they're already moving more work loads into the Cloud that they don't feel need to be here. But they've looked at security design, compliance practices, and they're like, we're moving, we're not waiting. >> They're Cloud First. >> They're Cloud First. >> Okay, so when do you expect the construction to be ready? Ballpark, I know you can't probably give an exact date but when-- >> We expect it'll be ready by Q1 of 2019 and we're excited. It's going to be one of the most innovative regions. And by the way, I dunno if you saw, I had a big star on the map today in my presentation. We have literally, at AWS, had a big hole in the world with no region in the Middle East or Africa, and now we are going to have this region so it is exciting, and I know that the region itself is really anxious to get going. >> Well not only are you an amazing executive, I've seen you work, I've seen what you've done, checking the boxes, doing the hard work, getting down and dirty and doing hustling and scrapping, but you also made some good strategic bets. This one really is successful because I think, two things, you bring a region to the area for AWS but you guys are doing it in a way that's partnering with the government, you're actually-- as industry contributing. I think that's a case there that's going to probably be recognized down the road when people figure that out. But that's going to be a great one. But the cultural win, for you, is pretty amazing and I have to say, yesterday I went to the women breakfast that you hosted and I've never been at a women breakfast, and I've been to a lot of them because I like to be involved, where I got kicked out of a table because they need the space, so it was so crowded. Sorry guys, you're out, I got booted. I didn't leave the room, I had to just move, because they had workshops. Take a minute to explain the women breakfast you had because I think that was extraordinary and a proof point that the narrative of the region, women don't go to school, all this nonsense that's out there, take a minute to clarify this, this is a cultural shift. There might be some cultural things going on. >> Well, the women are here, #SmartIsBeautiful. They are amazing. And they are very educated and in fact, 53% of the government work force here are females at high level jobs too, they're not just low level. And I actually met with the King this week who told me that he was able-- he has the first Supreme Court Justice, that's a female, in the Middle East. And he said it was against culture but he did it because he said this woman was so amazing and she was so talented and she fit the role, she had the job description down. And he said it's gone great, so the women here are smart, they're talented, they're educated, and they actually get degrees in Computer Science. Here in Bahrain, 60% of the Computer Science students are females. Now, what is not happening, is their not always getting out and getting these jobs. And the second thing is, right now, we're still working with them to teach the right skills. A lot of skills are actually outdated tech skills and I know, John, you see this too, even in the US. You have universities that are still teaching the wrong skills for Cloud, so we are working with them at the university and the high school level that actually teach and certify on the right skills. But the women are talented, they're amazing. There are some cultural things that we're going to work together on but there's really no reason we can't have an amazing and talented workforce of women here in the Middle East. >> We had Mohammed on, who's the chief executive of the IGA, the Information e-Government Authority. He told me that any citizen can get a certification for free in this country. >> Yes! Oh my gosh, so I've never seen this. So our partner here, Tamkeen, who's like The Labour Fund, about a year and a half ago, agreed that any citizen that got a certification on AWS, it would be 100% paid for. And then we just announced today that they're actually also going to pay 100% of Bahraini companies that want to move to the Cloud. They're serious about this, they are serious. And they are being a role model and, again John, why are they doing it? They are doing it because they realize that they want to be a true digital economy and grow their businesses here and create new. They got to move faster because they're smaller. They've got to be scrappier, they got to move faster, they got to do things a little bit different. >> The other thing I want to point out, you can't really see it on the camera, but behind us you have, essentially, a mix of commercial and public sector. The show here is so, so crowded, couldn't get into the keynote speech, overflow of room was packed, this is attracting everyone from the Gulf region here. Not just public sector, but commercial businesses. This is not a one time thing, this is a-- the pent-up demand is here. What do you expect is going to happen when the region gets here built out? >> Well, if you look at all the partners around, I mean you have Trend Micro over here, and others, many of them have come because they're excited about us putting a region here. And Andy Jassy and I both have had many of our partners say when are you going to have a region in the Middle East? So we expect a lot more partners are going to come. Just like you they're going to see the value of being here. But, additionally, I don't know what we're going to do for our conference, our summit, because we've already out-grown this space and you're right, we have delegates here from Jordan, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, of course Bahrain, Kuwait, the US. So many different groups are being represented here and I think also South Africa, we have some folks from South Africa. >> Well theCUBE is here, we're making great observations and great commentary. I got to say that you're even attracting amazing talent from the US, besides theCUBE. General Keith Alexander was here. >> Yes he was. >> John Wood from Telos, and all these partners, all visionaries who see the opportunity. This is important, you're not being misunderstood by the people who know Amazon. >> No, I agree. And you made a point earlier that I think is important. Even though I'm kind of here for this conference, leading it, this is not a public sector conference, it's a AWS Summit. It has tons of commercial, tons of public sector. The thing that's a little bit different when you get to some of these countries is they are more government lead, so that is the reason it's important to have this relationship with government if you really want to, but you don't want to surprise them. And you want to work with them to help make sure that they and the country are successful. >> Well Teresa, it's been fun to observe and watch your successes continue to raise the bar here in your job. This is a whole 'nother level when you talk about really filling a hole, you see a hole, you fill it. >> Yep, find a whole, fill it (laughs). >> I heard someone say that once in a motivation speech. Oh, that was you, "You see a hole you fill it. "Oh, we got to hole in the Middle East, fill it!" You have a region here, you've got great success in Washington, DC, CIA, other governments. Congratulations, and thanks for all your support-- >> Thank you John for being here, thank you. >> Thank you, live coverage here. We are here in Bahrain in the Middle East of CUBE's first time. I'm John Furrier, your host here, covering the exclusive Amazon Web Services Summit, and covering the historic launch of the new region in the Middle East. This should change the game, this is going to be a digital hub. It's going to have impact to entrepreneurship, economics and society. We'll be covering it at theCUBE. Stay with us for more after this short break. (jubilant music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering Informatica World 2018. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live, it's the Cube. Exclusive coverage of Informatica World 2018. It's our fourth year, exclusive coverage. I'm John Furrier, your co-host of the Cube, with Peter Burris, my co-host and chief analyst at Wikibon, and SiliconANGLE, and the Cube. Our next guest is the CEO of Informatica, chief executive Anil Chakravarthy, who's back again for his fifth Cube appearance. We went back all the way to 2014 at AWS Reinvent when cloud was on the horizon. Now you running a really high growth company. Congratulations. It's great to see you. >> Thank you. It's great to see you. Great to be back on the Cube again. I appreciate it. >> One of the things I want to point out, you know, we're independent, we want to point all the things that you guys should be working on, but I got to say, you guys have done an amazing job. Executing on the product front in a market that's growing and changing erratically with data, and not a lot of people got that. Amazon was early on we saw them executing. They were misunderstood. You guys are not misunderstood anymore. >> Yep, I appreciate that. >> Data is at the center. Congratulations. >> Thank you. I think one of the things that we've learned over the last 25 years, 25 years old this year, and you got that in the sign behind you, is there is a few things we are really good at. Data management is what we are really good at. Now, it just so happens data is everywhere in all kinds of platforms, and we want to make sure that wherever our customers are we are there as well to help them in data management. >> So, let's talk about what's going on. So first of all, a lot of interesting things here going on. One last year, we talked about, data lakes, data swamps. This year it's about the enterprise catalog and all the goodness, MDM, and the things you guys have done, kind of check check. The catalog brings in the notion of the full visibility. And then you got the multi-cloud hybrid-cloud adoption and the announcement of Azure. This is bringing in a new era. You called it data 3.0 up on stage. What is data 3.0? Can you take a minute to describe the vision and what does it mean for your customers. >> Yeah, data 3.0 is the name we are using to talk about the generational market disruption that's going on right now. If you think of what's changing in the data world, there are multiple trends happening at the same time. Volume of data doubling every year. You have a lot of new types. >> Six months. >> Well, for us too, the cloud is six months, but across the industry it's about a year every year. Still faster than computing in fact. Faster than Moore's law. Then, you have the variety of data, all kinds of data. You have the velocity of data, all the speed at which data needs to get processed. All the new techniques of processing data, like AI and advanced analytics and so on. And if any single one of these was happening that would be a big trend in itself. Everything happening at the same time, that's the generational market disruption and that's what we call, I said look, it would be easier if we gave it a name, and that's what we call data 3.0. >> So, you know, you just made a really great point. And I want to highlight it and suggest, again, looking at the board, where are the next generation of innovations going to come from? It used to be that we relied Moore's Law, double performance every 18 months, and in so doing we could put more software into it. But what you just described is doubling the amount of data every year, faster than Moore's Law. Means that it's inevitable. We have to move more of the innovation up into software, especially software that manages data. >> Absolutely, right. I think there's, just like you had said, the rate of growth of data being so much faster than even the rate of processing power growth means a couple of things happen. First of all, you're going to move more data into the cloud because in the cloud you can expand horizontally must faster, so than you can ever do in your own on-premise. So that's going to happen. The second big thing that's going to happen is as data gets into the cloud and people are using all these different types of new data processing techniques to your point about the catalog, if you don't have a fundamental catalog that tells you where your data is, who's using it, what it is for etc., you just lose control. You just cannot keep in control of your data. And so what people are realizing is as they do new business initiatives they got to have the data catalog. They got to put in place the data catalog and then let the catalog expand. >> A horizontally scalable cloud. That's a really significant point. And this has been a customer challenge, right? So, we're now in the obvious mode of the cloud is there. Azure, you mentioned Microsoft is growing significant. The shift has been made, everyone kind of gets cloud. But the cloud scale is still the pressure. Now you got data coming in, into the cloud scale, and you got things like GDPR, which is a shot across the bow saying okay, now you got to start thinking about compliance and management, and growth. Kind of a lot of things being juggled there. How do you see that unfolding, because it's challenging for customers? I mean there's a lot of things going. A lot of moving parts. >> The way I think about it is, think of this way. Customers have been working with databases for a long time. Over 50 years right now. And the first generation of databases, customers used to say, "Look, I just need a database "that runs all the time. "I can't have a database that crashes "every two hours or so." It just needs reliability as the first thing in a database. The next thing people started thinking about, once reliability was a solved problem, was they said, "I need scale and performance. "The number of records are increasing, etc." Once these became design principles databases started to become more and more robust. The only way to solve the kinds of problems that you mentioned today is every new database that you think of, whether it's for structured data, unstructured data, any kind of data. And you think of a database, think not only of reliability, performance, scale, also think of connectivity, governance, security, privacy. All these need to become design principles for whoever is thinking about the database, and that's what we mean by the catalog. It's the catalog helps you put the discipline in place. When you start a new database, register it in the catalog. That way you know what you are doing with the database. When you set up a copy of a database, put in the catalog. That's what we mean by the discipline. That way you can track. Tomorrow if you say, look I want to know where my European customer data is, just go to the catalog and it will tell you. >> So, I want to build on that. Actually, many years ago when I was first screwing around with databases, one of the things that was explained to me was bring in a database the application developer no longer has to know as much about the underlying infrastructure. >> That's correct. >> Because the data base administrator will take responsibility for how the data got spread on disc and access paths and all that other stuff so the developer could focus on the development. Now when we think about the cloud and all these other technologies and raising things up the catalog allows developers to increasingly focus on how they're going to use data. As opposed to the process that they are going to build. So we were talking about his earlier with a couple of different guests. Microsoft and when Rohan was here. >> Right. >> And the idea that ultimately we're talking about a data-first approach to thinking about how we create application value. >> That's exactly right. And to your point, I think the principles have not changed. What has changed is the way that you apply those principles. Which is you take a data-first approach, but then that's what the APIs let you do. The APIs expose the data to different applications and users. They don't need to know how the processing is happening. So today the data might be processed through Spark. Tomorrow you might say I got a new engine that processes it. They don't need to know it at the application level. At the application level, it's exposed through APIs, and the get to use the APIs. >> So, if you think about, from our perspectives, sorry John, when you think about it from our perspectives, we've always believed that digital business means something, and the difference between business and digital business is digital businesses use data as an asset. And a digital business transformation is the degree to which you are transforming, re-institutionalizing your work, reorganizing around data as an asset. >> That's right. >> So very, very important concept. Challenging for a lot of CEOs. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So look. Informatica's a software business, which means in many respects it has a whole bunch of data assets associated with it, but you're engagement model hasn't always been data, your service model hasn't always been data-oriented. As a CEO, is Informatica more of a digital business today, >> Absolutely. >> And if it is, how would you advise other CEOs to think about this kind of a transformation? >> Yeah, let me just give you the kind of the intelligent disruption we've gone through, because we were a software business, we're a cloud business today. And that's the transformation of the digital business-- >> Peter: Product to a services-oriented approach. >> And even in the product, our business model used to be that we basically said look our goal is to try to sell software upfront, go work with customers, make the business case for software, and sell the software upfront. Today we're selling a service which means we not only want to self the software, we want to know how customers are using the software, are they successful with the software, is it doing what they expected, and that is the most notion of land, adapt, expand, and then renew. And that's a much better approach, because it works for the customer, it works for us. There's less shelf ware in this process. So a lot of people, everybody's happy with that. But in order to make that happen, we got to collect a lot of data on whether customers are being successful. >> The business model and the product model's got to be aligned completely and that's really what you guys have done. And is that where people are making mistakes, in your mind, when you see people going to the cloud? That they kind of do it with the cloud, then forget to change their... >> And that corporate, that's exactly right. When you think of this digital transformation or digital business you got to do three things all in sync. The new customer engagement models like ours change from upfront to ongoing. And then there's new products and services, which is all the stuff that we have done around the cloud portfolio. And then there's new operating models, new processes, customer success is a new process that we did not have four years ago. Which is we proactively reach out to customers to find out what they're doing with our software, are they successful with it, et cetera. We used to wait for them to call us. Now we do it proactively. >> But isn't that also one of the businesses of taking a product to services approach, is because you're now establish a relationship with a customer that says, it's not just proactively, you're exchanging data on a continuous basis. In the form of updates on the one hand, but also utilization information et cetera, build a better product, better engagement. >> Exactly. In fact, you'll see one of the packed events here has been what we call the the Ops Insight, or Operational Insight, that's the product we built to do exactly what you said. Get the telemetry data, help customers use our products better. And that's the transformation from a product to a service. >> And we had Toyota on earlier, and they were very complimentary. But the big ah-ha for them was we had this crisis, we weren't connected, but we actually had the data. They just didn't connect at all. So they kind of had it, the answer, couldn't get it. >> And then we're using data excellently in each of the different functions. >> Then we did the transformation, and then they realized, had they gone down a different route, they wouldn't have been prepared for the tsunami of telemetry data coming from the cars. >> That's exactly it. >> So now, again, this is not going away. This is going to to be the pattern. There's going to be a new set of inbound data coming in. How should customers prepare for that? Is there an ingestion mechanism? Is that where you guys do the cataloging? This is kind of the important, headroom question. Where's the... >> There's different points depending on the style of the organization. I often ask questions, what is the nature of the culture of your organization? Do you guys work top-down better, bottom-up better, how do you work? So somebody who says looking at it, we actually work bottom-up really well, right? Top-down dictates don't work really well. Then I say to them, why don't you start and profile the top hundred data elements that really matter for your business. So if they're an insurance company, a policy number. That's one of the top hundred data elements. A claim number, that's one of the top hundred data elements. Just identify the top hundred data elements, and then just tell yourself that you have a consistent business definition for that data element, you have a consistent technical definition, you know where the data resides, et cetera et cetera. Just start bottom-up. For some companies that works really well. Other companies are more like, no no no. We work more better top-down. Then you start with what is your strategy as a business? How are you going to transform yourself, who is your competitive threats, and so on. And then you go through what are you doing in terms of transformation, new operating models, new customer engagement, et cetera? And then translate that into a data strategy, and that becomes a data architecture. So I think it depends on the style of the organization. Some of them are trying both and meeting in the middle, but what I tell customers is based on your culture, based on your style, there's different models that work. >> Great relationship with Microsoft announced here. Scott Guthrie's on stage. How's that relationship going? I know it just didn't start yesterday, because there's deep production integration, shipping, it's not GA but it's previewed shipping soon. Couple weeks coming, or months. By September, I think that estimate is. Ballpark. Where'd this come from, how you guys doing, can you just give some color to the Informatica, Microsoft, Azure relationship? >> Absolutely. The relationship with Microsoft itself has been going on for a very long time. We have over 2,000 common customers with Microsoft, so it's something that especially on-premise, has been something that we have been working with SQL server and other Microsoft products for a very long time. The relationship specifically with Scott and with the Azure team started in 2014. So we went up there to Seattle just to learn about what they were doing with the cloud and so on. We were actually pretty impressed. We said, look, this is clearly the new Microsoft. This is the Microsoft that wants to work with partners, that wants to be a true enterprise player, and we said, you know what, this is the kind of partner that we want to bet on. So we made a few proactive investments initially. We, at that point, which was not clear that Azure would take off like it did. But just like you mentioned with Reinvent, we said these guys are really clearly betting on it. So 2014 was when we started making the bets on Azure, SQL data wheelhouse, et cetera. And that was when it started growing. And in the last, we have obviously seen the hockey stick now. We have 200 or so enterprises. >> Yeah, completely top-down, said we're doing that in cloud. Everyone's in line, it's beautiful. The growth has been there, the stock was the... I remember when it was trading at 26. I think it might have been about that time. >> Well you look at it now, exactly. >> So you're really confident that this is going to be a positive impact for customers? >> A very positive impact. Because with them, you see both the on-premise, we have clear synergy and partnerships with them, and in Azure as well, we have the clear partnership and value proposition with them. >> And let's be honest. There are not a lot of times when betting against Microsoft turned out to be the right thing to do. Maybe with phones, but that's about it. >> There's some things there, but anyway. I want to get to the company question. You're the chief executive officer, you're leading now a growing team, growing company. Talk about the culture, because you guys have always had a culture of innovation. Although private equity took you over, there was a story there, but I really want to get at the key points in the company, and talk about the R&D. Because you talked about bets. You bet on Amazon. We were there in 2014 with you. We say you there, and we saw Azure. You guys sniffing out the good tech. You guys are smart. But you got to put the rubber to the road for investment. Where's your priorities? Talk about the R&D. >> Yeah. Just to set the context, when we went private, we went private with the clear understanding that we would transform the company. We saw the potential for the company but we also knew that changing from a software company to the cloud company that we just talked about, that was not easy to do as a public company. Obviously there's a lot of investment required, plus there's some unpredictability. >> Earnings, and... >> We said look, we went private with the explicit aim of transforming the company. And the investors, our sponsors, had the same goal as well. You know, sometimes there's a misperception that all PE is about cost cutting. >> But most are. >> Exactly, and that's just not true. It's like you have to look at every PE form and every PE deal, and a number of PE deals that are growth-oriented. Because they know that, hey, with the investments we're making, ultimately if you can get a company to grow, the valuation is way better than you can ever get through just cost cutting. They saw that potential in Informatica. We worked closely with them to define the plan that we've been executing on since 2015. By the way, Microsoft and Salesforce.com came in as strategic investors, so when we went private that was a good endorsement for us. And so we've been executing on that front. And so we've never stopped investing in R&D. As a public company we invested about 15%, 16% on R&D. This year we're actually investing 17% on R&D, so we've really done what it takes to be continually best of breed and integrated, that's-- >> And I'll count cloud subscription models there, what are some other priorities can you share? Some of the priorities for you guys in terms of key areas you're getting out front on being proactive. >> Yeah, so biggest priorities for the company are continue to be a clear best of breed product line in everything we do That we believe that we should never ask any of our customers to sacrifice anything when they buy Informatica. It is best of breed. Second clear priority for the company, make sure that we have an integrated product suite. That's not easy to do, when you're both best of breed and integrated. But that's why we invest as much as we do in R&D. The third clear priority for the company is the transformation journey that we're on. All the key parts of the transformation, product portfolio, go to market, business model, customer success, brand. They all have to work in concert. That's where I mentioned the values and the culture of the company. We've really have always been a customer-focused company. But we said look, what really will take us for the next 25 years is what we call the values that are real data. >> I really appreciate your time, I know you're super busy. I have one final question, cause it's pretty obvious. We were kind of speculating on our intros, at our editorial overview is your ecosystem is, I won't say massive 'cause you're growing, but we predict it's going to be pretty big. Given if this continues, the trend continues, it's going to be a matter of time before you start rolling in developers and all kinds of new partners, just global system integrators, on and on and on. What's the strategy for the ecosystem, do you guys have clear visibility on how that's going to play out? Where is global partners or customers? How are people engaging with you guys in the ecosystem? >> We already have over 500 partners, and that's where this focus on being an API-driven, micro-services driven architecture really helps us. That way when you scale new partners, you don't have to do custom work for each partner. And that really helps us scale much faster. In the past we have a 100+ OEMs, and each OEM is to take a little more work because it was all custom interfaces. Now in this new API, micro-services driven world, we can scale to the kind of volume that you're talking about, and I'm pretty confident with-- >> In many respects that is the definition of horizontal scaling. >> Exactly. >> Horizontal scaling, it's the magic of the cloud. Certainly opening up and changing the game. Certainly changing the infrastructure with cloud-native. You're starting to see a shift to a new infrastructure on the internet is all happening with data, cloud, and who knows. Maybe blockchain and crypto will be in the conversation soon. How do you do the MDM on that? That's a hard one, we'll get to that later. Anil, thank you for coming on the Cube. Really appreciate it. Great to see you. >> Thank you for having me, I really appreciate it. >> Alright, John Furrier, Peter Burris here, the CEO of Informatica at Informatica World 2018. We'll be back. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break.

(uplifting music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome to theCUBE Conversations here at the Palo Alto Studios for theCUBE. I'm John Furrier the co-host of theCUBE, co-founder of SiliconANGLE. We're here for Thought Leader Thursday, and my guest here to talk about the cloud, earnings in the industry, and also all the mega trends happening is Tarun Thakur, who is the co-founder and CEO of Datos.IO, hot start up out of Los Gatos, California. Welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you, John, thank you, good to be back. >> We love having entrepreneurs come in because you guys are on the cutting edge, you're sweating bullets, you're stressing out, you're building the company. You guys are still in a growth mode, which is great, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> But you're also playing in the cloud game. You're in the ecosystem. We're seeing massive visibility now into the numbers. You see the cloud earnings just came out. Amazon continues to crush it. Microsoft, they're bundling 365 and they're juicing the numbers up but we all know what's going on there, but still, they're looking good. >> Correct. >> And then Google's a dark horse with really that developer platform looking good. So the big three are popping. But, you know, Facebook just announced a $10 billion quarter. They're a cloud too, not to be reckoned with, but kind of not in the pure infrastructures of service. So clearly the market has shown that there is some stability. We're in the second, third inning maybe of this cloud game. What's your take on the marketplace? >> No, I think this is an excellent topic. Thank you, John, for again having us back. Always great to be here. So, you know, the way I think about what's happening really in the cloud is really from three dimensions. Number one, you know, you rightly said $20 billion is what Amazon is on a run rate business of. We personally believe it's still the first innings. It's not the second or the third. You know, they've seen a massive adoption as its called the product market for developilabilty, where the developers, where the application developers, where the SMBs of the world, but the enterprises are just starting to scratch the surface of the cloud. We believe the cloud is in the first innings. The real growth. >> Enterprise cloud. >> Enterprise cloud is just beginning. Just beginning, right. I was, you know, I'll give you quickly an example. I was out in Denver visiting a customer, which is the world's largest, one of the world's largest, shipping companies. They are moving as fast as possible to the cloud, but this is their first foray. But their first foray is not five terabytes or 50 terabytes. Their first foray is 50 petabytes of data. >> So they're moving big time. >> Oh, they're moving big time. >> This is not a toe in the water. >> No, they took two years to evaluate it, and then they go big. >> Right, so talk about the trends here because let's tease through the numbers. I looked at all the earnings, and again, Microsoft is doing well, but remember, they're bundling Office 365, which kind of puts Google unnoticed because Google's got a huge presence that they could roll in. So there's a lot of number games going on that the analysts are kind of pointing out, and we're pointing out, but Amazon has just been crushing it on overall performance. >> Right. >> I mean look at the compute that's going on, the scale, they've got thousands of enterprise customers, and still there's a lot more growth there because the on-prem, true private cloud, is still growing. >> That's correct. >> So what is the state of the enterprise now, and who is using the public cloud more, and who's using it less, and why are they doing that? Is it a makeup, is it a DNA culture? Is it just evolution? >> No, it's just evolution, John. I think the enterprises are finally latching on to this, I think they are, but they're latching on it in a big way. Right, and so that's the second point that I sort of wanted to highlight that while you call Google the Trojan horse, and Amazon being the lead, and then Microsoft somewhere in the middle, let's not forget about Oracle cloud. Larry Ellison is a formidable competitive spirit. He's not going to give up. He has not given up so far. They are going to build an Oracle cloud. There will be a-- >> Well they have an Oracle cloud. >> They have an Oracle cloud. But, you know, having versus really truly-- >> It's so funny, Larry Ellison called Salesforce a fake cloud, but a lot of people are calling Oracle a fake cloud. >> A fake cloud. >> But Oracle on Oracle, we've entered Dave Donatelli, Larry is the only one that hasn't come on theCUBE. Oracle cloud works great with Oracle. >> Correct. >> They're trying to put the message out there that Oracle is working well with cloud native. They're in the Cloud Native Foundation now. >> Sure, sure. >> CNCF, so you stayed in Oracle amidst Avery and folks over there doing a great job, so, but they're not getting the word out. Oracle's not getting the job done because no one sees Oracle as a cool cloud native company. >> No, and they're not. And I think that's a very valid point. But what I'm saying is that there will be room There is oxygen in this market to get the fourth and the fifth cloud provider. There will be specialized clouds. And there will be places for that. Because Amazon is not an answer for all. It is definitely an answer for majority of your workloads, but the HPC, the high performance computing workloads, the GPU workloads, the Oracle. You know, you look at the number one database in the cloud that Amazon claims openly is MySQL. It's not Oracle. An Amazon database business, if they're making 20 billion in total AWS, I will tell you about 40% or 50% of their business is database. And that's not Oracle. So think of five to $10 billion of revenue and money that Amazon is making is not Oracle. >> What's that mean? Does that mean Oracle's losing money or. That's leakage on Oracle's model? Is that Oracle still has an opportunity? Cause they still control a lot of databases. >> Thank you and, thus, thank you, thank you for asking that. It's not that Oracle is losing money, it's the next generation applications, it's the cloud enabled applications. >> So it's growth, it's pure growth. >> It's the new oxygen, it's the new wealth creation. >> So it's like the classic example when the internet started. Web traffic increased because more people were using the internet. >> Correct. >> So what you're saying is that cloud has created a more database market. Amazon's getting a big chuck of it there, but Oracle still has the database market. >> For example if you look-- >> And SAP too. >> And look at the third reason of these clouds, if you look at AIML, right, these applications, the Alexa, the Siri-like applications, and the applications that will be built on top of this, will be built in the cloud. You're not going to start building Alexa AI application on prem infrastructure. That is not happening. And that's the third part of this whole cloud. We say it's $20 billion and we have barely scratched the surface on AI, ML, and blockchain. And all those applications that will be built, will be built on cloud elastic infrastructure. >> Alright, so what's your take? I mean, right now Amazon's winning the cloud game, Oracle, I wouldn't call them number four, but they're trying to juice the numbers up as well, but they clearly have an installed base, and they're not going anywhere. >> Tarun: Captive audience. >> SAP is going multi-cloud, so you're seeing SAP starting to put their, looking at saying, hey, we want our customers to run Oracle SAP on any cloud, so they're clearly thinking multi-cloud. Who else is out there? Alibaba cloud is now coming to the US in San Mateo, so they're number seven cloud but four worldwide, right? >> Tarun: Correct. >> So, pure worldwide numbers, Alibaba's four. >> Yes, so I'll start with Ali cloud. You know, you talk about Alibaba, their cloud is called Ali cloud, and fortunately, as you're building a company, as you talked about earlier on in our offline conversation, you get to meet all the way from governed DoD's and DIA's of the world too. We worked with Ali cloud executive team just a few weeks ago and they were out here in the bay area. Didi is the de facto car hailing company, it's not Uber, in China. We believe Ali cloud will be that in China. There will be a fifth cloud, there will be a sixth cloud. To my point, there will be specialized clouds. Amazon's not going to win this entire pie. And there will be clouds outside of US markets. >> Well I had a chance to tell Karen Lu and Dr. Min Wen Li as well as Dr. Wong at Alibaba in China a few weeks ago, and if you look at what they're doing in China, it's not just cloud. They've got eCommerce, they've got the city brain project. They're looking at holistically around data. Data's fundamental to their vision. I think that's consistent with what we're seeing in the US. A little bit more broader scope because IT here is a little bit more, has more legacy. China's got much more focus and got some government controls in there to get some latitude to do the right things. But the consumers are moving faster in China. If you look at the mobile growth. >> Absolutely. >> John: Huge indicator. >> Look at the Didi's growth. Didi's growth is more faster than Uber's growth. Right, and they've built a massive, massive company out there. >> IoT is pretty hot in China, you're starting to see that. I mean, this is a re-imagining of cloud, so you guys are in the middle of it with back on the road recovery. So as a CEO you're in the body swerving, car's that are flying by you, you're trying not to get run over. You've got a good market opportunity with the cloud because GDPR's coming right around the corner. >> Yes, yes, absolutely. >> So what's your strategy? Are you, I mean, I'm paraphrasing, not dodging cars, but, I mean, as a start up you've got to worry about your success might kill you, but how do you manage the business? I mean, how are you looking at this? Because you've got a great opportunity, and it's a growth market. >> Thank you, thank you. No we're lucky and fortunate that some of the decisions we made back four years ago people used to laugh, why are you going in this market of cloud data applications and isn't eight out of $10 dollars being spent on Oracle. Why would you go off to that. And, we're like, guys that's today. Where the puck is going. The puck is going towards the cloud and cloud applications. And to answer your question, we've found beautiful beautiful excellent product market fit. A little bit about the company. >> John: What's the use case? >> We're just classically going backup in recovery use cases. Built for cloud native applications. So, for example, I talked about the number one database in the cloud is MySQL. The number two database on prem is SQL Server. Take a guess on number two database in the cloud. It's MongoDB, they just went IPO two weeks ago. Number two database on Amazon is MongoDB. Who thought that five years ago? >> Well Lamp Stack its just open stores driving a lot of this action. >> So, I'll give you an example, one of our biggest, biggest customers which we're going to be announcing very soon, but take the liberty to share here, OpenTable. OpenTable, we are protecting OpenTable. 2.5 billion documents. That's yours and my reservation. That's your and my reservation that we make for a beautiful restaurant. >> Yeah, and if I change that reservation I've got to have that backed up, but want to bring it back. You guys are doing that. So what's the scale of the OpenTable? Ballpark it. >> So all their entire reservation applications. >> The whole thing. >> I probably will not talk about the datasets. You know, but their entire geo-distributed applications. You could be sitting in New York or you could be in London. >> And in which cloud are they using? >> They are all Google cloud, they're on prem. So they're truly private cloud and public cloud. So I call that a multi cloud data management space. They've a ton of stuff still on prem. They're not going to diverge away from that very quickly. >> What's the Google situation? Sam Ramji is over there doing a great job. Google Next is coming up soon, next year. Great traction, but still people aren't considering Google as the white glove service because, well, Amazon's not really known for that either, but at least they have a lot more, thousands more customers than Google does. >> Yeah so I think that the problem is twofold, in my humble opinion. Or the observation is twofold. One, I think Google needs to amp up their game around cloud and cloud messaging. You open Amazon AWS.cloud website, and you open GCP website, you could just see the differences. How Amazon talks about cloud. You're still selling compute storage network, but they talk business agility. What took a month for SQL Server now takes two hours. That's what you're selling, right? >> You're selling speed and you're selling automation, and you're selling value. >> Orchestration. So I think Google has to amp up their game, and amp up their game around that. >> Are they too technical, too geeky? >> Too nerdy, too geeky and still talking about infrastructure. >> Yeah sure, and I think Sam knows that too. >> And I think second part, which is, you know, they absolutely need to amp up their game not go head on and follow Amazon, find the newer applications and new use cases, where they can go ahead of Amazon. Whenever you're playing Art of War, either you can follow somebody or you go establish your own base. >> If they go frontal attack on these guys they'll lose, they've got to play the shadows. I think they can slingshot around them. I think the developer traction they have is strong, even though Amazon's got strong developer traction. Google's got some goodness with TensorFlow, they've got some great technology, but they've got to stop the game of we're Google, go with us. Enterprises don't work that way even though I get why they say that cause it's true. At some level from a alpha geek perspective, but this isn't the land of alpha geeks, these are real people that have jobs and enterprise IT that won't transform. >> They're real enterprises, who have real DBAs, and real server admins who really care about data services. Going back to the comment-- >> Not just the shiny new toy. I need reliability, proof. >> I want durability of this data. Don't just tell me I can get compute 10 times cheaper than Amazon. That's not what I care about. Change my, talk my language. I care about data services. I called data driven enterprises. >> Okay, as you guys go out and talk to customers, give me the anecdotal view of the landscape of customers. Because obviously the earnings came out. We saw, again, Amazon continuing to do well. But they've got some competition. We just laid and unpacked that. Customers now see this. What's kind of the the conversations in the boardrooms, and then in the trenches in IT and enterprise as they transform because IT is not a department anymore in the future enterprise. It's now a fabric of all things in cloud native. What are the conversations? Are they slowing down, obviously they want to go faster, is it a personnel issue? What are some of the conversations? >> I'll give you real example. We presented recently to a big, massive federal government agency. We cannot take their name out of legal. >> John: They spend a lot of money. >> Out of Washington, D.C. out here in the Bay area. >> CIA. Or, NSA. >> You're looking at the start-ups in the Bay area, and they were like, look why had we ever adopted the IBMs, the mainframes, and the EMCs, and the Dells of the world. We also know the wealth of the innovation is here in Silicon Valley. Right, so they come out once a year. And I can tell you, John, spending two hours that we did with them earlier in the week, and they are accelerating their journey to the cloud. Things that were foreign terms like micro services, that's how they want to build these federal agencies now. Every application has to have microservices. They are not truly there. I'll tell you that. They are not there, but that is top of mind for the CIA. >> And gov cloud has grown very fast, fedramp, all these services. >> Amazon called it Commercial Cloud Service, c2s, built for the government. And that entire team was here. >> Well Tarun great job. Congratulations on your opportunity we just talked about. Datos.IO. You guys, it's Datos.IO if you want to check out the website. You're going to be at Reinvent, you're going to come on theCUBE, we'll be there with two sets. Again, I have 50, you're doing Amazon, love the community there, they do a great job, Andy Jassy comes on, great group, Trace Carlson, among others. What are you expecting to see this year at Amazon? Besides the fact that it's going to be crowded and certainly the show of the year in terms of cloud. >> Momentum, they're going to accelerate the momentum. The amount of services they're planning to announce from, because we work with the team very closely, and the amount of acceleration they're showing, the new partners coming on board, and the partners like us who had one customer, and now we have 20 in Amazon cloud. You know, we just became an advanced technology partner, they understand that. >> So you're happy with how they're working with partners? >> Oh we love Amazon team. We became an advanced technology partner. They drilled us down for three months to prove themselves, yes, Datos can run on their infrastructure. You know, they want to go fast, but they want to go diligent fast. >> Yeah, we love Amazon too, of course. Our crowd chat solver's on their website as a case study using some of their stuff. Thanks so much for coming on, your final thoughts. Earnings, cloud, where are we? >> This is unstoppable force. It's an unstoppable force, we're in the first innings. There's so much opportunity ahead of us. And we couldn't have picked a beautiful market to than what we did. >> And true private cloud as we keep pointing out, turns out that's playing out. On prem activity's high. Your thoughts on on prem? True private cloud? >> It's going to survive, it's going to survive. But it's not going to be the growth place. >> But we think it will grow with the SaaS. >> With the Saas, I agree, but infrastructure. Infrastructure is not going to be growing. So that's our two cents, but you know, we'll be back in a couple of weeks, we have a phenomenal exciting product launch coming up. >> I just tweeted on Twitter this morning $1.5 billion is going to be coming out of on premise, non-differentiated labor operations. Which basically means, the rack and stacking some of these jobs are going to go away. But the growth is in automation, AI, and machine learning, and some SaaS tooling. >> Cloud applications. >> Cloud operations business models growing on premise. >> And those dollars are going to leak to the cloud. >> Yeah, and cloud, it's all to the cloud. Tarun, thanks so much. >> Thank you. >> Co-founder and CEO of Datos.IO. I'm John Furrier here for CUBE Conversation in Palo Alto at our studios, thanks for watching. (techno music)