>> Narrator: Live from Vancouver, Canada. It's the Cube. Covering OpenStack Summit, North America, 2018. Brought to you by Redhat, the OpenStack foundation and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Cube. I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host John Troyer, and your watching the Cube, the worldwide leader in tech coverage. Happy to welcome back back to the program, Arturo Suarez, who is with Canonical, program director. Haven't have him on for a couple of hours, Arturo, thanks for joining me again. >> Thanks for having me. >> Alright and David Safaii who is the CEO of Trilio Data. We introduced your company to our community last year at the show in our backyard in Boston, so, thanks for joining us here in beautiful Vancouver. >> Thanks for having me again, good to see ya. >> Alright so, David, let's start with you. It's you know, a year since we talked to you, you know data management, absolutely, you know, such a hot space. Bring us into that update as to your company, what's happening in OpenStack and lets get into it from there. >> Sure. It's been an exciting year since I seen you last, you know. I think part of it's been the evolution and the maturity of this ecosystem that we're seeing. More business units are now moving production workloads into this environment. So the call to Trilio has really taken place. A lot of the times your seeing these cloud teams having to scramble to find the proper data protection solution. Trilio being a cloud native backup solution, you know, for this environment, its just a logical selection. >> Yeah, its one of those things I scratch my head, maybe you can explain to me, is, remember back in I was like, when we did virtualization, it was like took a little while before we had a good backup, you know, solution for there. When we go to cloud its like, wait, oh wait, lets not forget that there are things like security and backup. Why does it take a little bit while for that to kind of catch up into the market and have good solutions? >> So if you think about it this way, when people start this journey, right, the initial intent a lot of the time is to have some stateless workloads. We know that's not the case. Perception and reality. And your going to see it in the container market as well. So that's kind of the evolution that you see, that's kind of the draw that we see. >> Okay, Arturo, explain to us how Canonical fits. >> So, obviously Canonical powers more OpenStack than anyone else does. So OpenStack foundation survey would like to say it. But that's a fact, that's what I'll write. So, we're happy to partner with Trilio. We've always been very keep to accommodate the ecosystem in our story. Trilio vault matches very well our idea of having better economics as well for the data center. And it opens up OpenStack, not only for the original goal of OpenStack, like the hyper scalers or the scale out applications, right, which are cloud native if you want and are born on OpenStack. And OpenStack is born for them right, for that type of application. But now it opens that to a wide range of existing, I wouldn't call it legacy, but, you know what I mean like old applications that are really not going to be refreshed, you know. You'll only refresh that many applications year after year. 10% of your applications, 15% if you have a good devops team. Those still are suffering lock in from being in that virtualization world, or not even there, right. And with OpenStack and the addition of Trilio as a backup DR solution, just somebody provide what a pet VM needs right. So somebody opens up to a large real state of a data center to be accommodated in OpenStack seamlessly. >> It's great, Chris, here at OpenStack Summit this year, kind of the customers your seeing, someone said to me the other day that, you know the people here this year are people with mortgage to pay. And they meant that in a complimentary way, in that they're not like the cloud astronauts or they're not arguing about the philosophy of what is a true cloud. They actually have business to do. So I don't know, your talking about some of what your seeing here at this show and you know the kinds of people or maybe, you know, who are the folks that are using or kind of folks that are using Trilio today? >> Yeah and I think the conversation has been, the high quality conversations, higher caliber conversation where its a lot of day two conversations that have taken place, so, it's been engaging. People need to act, they need to move. They've got these fabulous clouds that's slicing and dicing, they're expanding in every which way possible. Now they say, alright, we have to codify this. You know the journey to the cloud doesn't have to be painful. And that's one of the great things that Canonicals done well, right. Build, operate, manage - here's your cloud, we're going to stand it up, you know, it's everything you need. Now with Trilio its not "Can I add back up to it?", like fries, it's just not like that. It's adding data protection to codify that and again that's why we're seeing these people start, are coming. They're asking that kind of, they're asking that question. >> Are you mostly talking to folks over in the enterprise space? I mean with OpenStack right, a lot of the conversations in the carrier space, they have some slightly different needs. Or how is that working for you? >> No, it's broadened. I'd say our customer base is everything from manufacturing to receiving financial services all over the world, adopt OpenStack. So, again it goes to the testament of adopting and building much easier than every before and the economics are big benefit. >> In terms of building on top of OpenStack or you know so directly with the APIs. And OpenStack has a number of components all with APIs and component, so how is that relationship been working with Canonical and the state of both Canonical's OpenStack as well as the standard, you know, getting used to the standard parts of the OpenStack stack. >> Yeah so we certify ourselves across the distribution, but you know, part of this is a seamless integration through leveraging juju charms for example. The lifecycle management of that cloud. So whether your going through an upgrade process or staying up a new cloud, Trilio just fits hand and glove with Canonical. >> Yeah at the end of the day APIs are APIs, OpenStack are OpenStack, right. That is very well defined. It's how you build it. When you build it to just take a picture of it and have an OpenStack up and running, or, when you build it to have an OpenStack that's going to be in your data center for ten years, for 20 years, right, that is a credible data center right. So that is our main difference. The OpenStack and the end of the day, the API is just consumable just for us as well as for the other guys, its exactly the same API. We don't modify, not everybody, right, but we do not modify anything from OpenStack. It's pure appstring OpenStack, right, there's no real difference there. >> Okay, what about I think service providers would be key market for this, how does that play in for both of you? >> I mean the service provider market of course is a big adapter of OpenStack and then now your seeing also with NFV environment, the rapid adoption there. It's been an important add to the OpenStack cloud if you think about how do I recover my configurations in that environment, so. >> Exactly and we mentioned before like right, the expansive real estate even in the world of service providers when you move out of the core, right, and they're challenging SLAs, right. So DR is effectively and that data protection as well because the VNFs that their running are effectively managing data that is prone to be protected, specially you know, in countries in Europe for instance, with the GDPR etc., you really need to have accountability of what data is in your data center without, you know, taking into account the economics of having an extra data center there, right. So the DR and data protection elements are key to the cloud strategy of service providers, right. >> What are folks looking at is cross cloud strategies and backup. Like what is the target right, I'm assuming either, cross data center or also up to the public cloud. How are people looking at that? Either one. >> So we see it, as far as the backend store of the target, we really have certified ourselves across any backup target. Within Canonical they're using self storage. If they added benefit of geo replication, right, so the DR story starts to evolve there. So site goes down, you have geo replication, you have Trilio there to spin backup that other site back up again. Relative to the public cloud, you know, as the hybrid world continuously evolves, you know, we're ready for that. We have qualified against S3 for example. But no ones banging down the door just at this moment. I think a lot of people just need to get the blocking and tackling done and leverage really the assets that they have, to make the most out of it, get the ROI there. And then we'll see if the demand evolves. >> So the beauty is to have the choice right, the freedom of choice. Which is what some of the private infrastructure software doesn't allow you to do. Like this is a one thing you can eat today, right. So that freedom of choice, whether you want to put that in a public cloud, if it's security compliant and what not, or you want to have that in another region or replicated somewhere else, another storage backend that is colder and cheaper and you know, so. That freedom of choice is a great asset. >> Arturo, what are you looking forward to in terms of the evolution of OpenStack storage and data capabilities? >> So, OpenStack is already opened up for absolutely everything, right. Storage in fact in OpenStack was, this is my 15th OpenStack, so I've been following it from the very very beginning right. So the storage in OpenStack is actually was the project that was mature first... >> Well I didn't want to start the question off with well, OpenStack storage is kind of done right. But... >> But it is right. At the end of the day when you look at all the existing, more legacy type of a storage filers, already have an integration with OpenStack. OpenStack made a turn few years ago, again, I'm telling my old stories of OpenStack, but when we started doing Cinder. And the Cinder drivers would apply in that to Neutron and the Neutron plugins now for network. But the Cinder drivers actually are a very easy way to plug in literally any other storage solution that you might find out there. And the beauty of it is that you can, you don't have to choose one. You can have many storage back ends in your data center right. So that is there. And then it will be, as we talked before, it be just a decision on the per use cases. Canonical will be part of that. Canonical will have a solution ready for each of those use cases by enabling partners. And obviously there will be some of them that will be more adequate to with the compliance and security terms, right. >> David, I'd love you to follow up on that. So there is the companies that have gone through the alphabet from A through Queens, and have the bumps and bruises. What's it like being a startup, getting into the ecosystem you know more recently. What's the opportunities? >> Yeah, I mean, I think for us the customers are at various points in their journeys right. So we have be able to qualify whether your kilo or your on queens. And we have to be able to deliver a service that you know is rock solid. So that's an onus on us. To deliver all that, make sure it's bullet proof. So it takes a lot of work. But, the community's been great to work with, the customers view us as partners. And they're willing to work with you, which has been fantastic, you know. >> Okay. Want to give you both a final take aways from the event. David you want to start? >> Sure. So as I was saying before I think the conversations been high caliber conversations, right. It's been interesting for us, because if you think about back up and DR, data protection is actually a much broader term and I think it evolves. And I think we're on a great spot for it to evolve even further. We take a workload, a point in time, right, if the conversation becomes about workload mobility inside your cloud, I can move it to any part, and that's some of the conversations that we've had using back up for resource management, right, I want to move tenants from one availability zone to another availability zone. Or I'm standing up a new cloud. That's just part of the by product of backup and recovery. One of the things that we're actually, we're exploring and we'll give you guys a nice showcase of this in Berlin is that we'll be running scanners through our back ups. Doing more with points in time, to give your tenants and your customers the ability to go back to the best last known state, you know it's clean. All the patches, the configurations, the anti-virus type stuff. So this is going to be a great evolution it's going to be a great journey. Having the ability of being a startup gives us the flexibility and we can be nimble, where a legacy data protection has 30 year old code and they don't have that ability. So, it's been great. >> So as you know, following up on what David said, right, the flexibility of having a data protection solution finally on OpenStack, being able to compare and win against all the private cloud infrastructure is a great asset. The fact that OpenStack now you see is ready for prime because it gets less media attention its not shiny anymore it's not that interesting to talk about OpenStack. But everyone needs an OpenStack solution, right. The ecosystem landscape where come from the digital wars back in the day, we're not wasting time right there right. So it's more of a filling a need that OpenStack opens up for. And Trilio has done that very well in the data protection domain. >> It's been a really great relationship. >> Alright, David Safaii, Arturo Suarez, thank you so much for joining us again. And check out thecube.net. If you go to the site, not only can you search by events and by guest but if you put in keyword, for example, getting ready for this event, I typed OpenStack in and there were hundreds of interviews that we've done over the years, not only at this OpenStack summit, but many other shows that have talked about it. Go find them, poke around, you know, so much content to be able to dig in. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, back with a lot more coverage here at OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Thanks for watching the Cube. (Background music)

>> Narrator: Live from Vancouver, Canada it's theCUBE covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Stu Miniman here with my cohost here John Troyer. And we're at the OpenStack Summit 2018, here in Vancouver. One of the key topics we've been discussing, actually for a few years but under new branding, and it's really matured a bit is Edge Computing. So, we're really happy to welcome to the program two first time guests. We have Arturo Suarez, who's a program director with Canonical. We also have first time Kontron employee on, Eric Sarault, who's a product manager of software and services with, I believe Montreal based, is the headquarters. >> That's correct. >> Stu: So, thank you for allowing all of us to come up to Canada and have some fun. >> It's a pleasure. >> But we were all working during Victoria Day, right? >> Yeah. >> All right. Arturo, we know Canonical. So, we're going to talk about where you fit in. But, Eric, let's start with Kontron. I've got a little bit of background with them. I worked in really kind of the TelCo space back in the 90s. But for people that don't know Kontron maybe give us some background. So, basically, the entity here today is representing the communications business unit. So, what we do on that front is mostly TelCo's service providers. We also have strong customer base in the media vertical. But right now the OpenStack, what we're focusing on, is really on the Edge, mixed messages as well. So, we're really getting about delivering the true story about Edge because everybody has their own version of Edge. Everybody has their own little precisions about it. But down the road, it's making sure that we align everyone towards the same messaging so that we deliver a unified solution so that everybody understands what it is. >> Yeah. So, my filter on this has been Edge depends who you are. If you're a telecommunications vendor, when we've talked about the Cohen, it's the Edge of where they sit. If I'm an enterprise, it's the Edge is more like the IOT devices and sometimes there's an aggregation box in between. So, there's somewhere between two and four Edges out there. It's like cloud. We spent a bunch of years discussing it and then we just put the term to the side and go things. When you're talking Edge at Kontron, what does that mean? You actually have devices. >> We do. >> So, who's your customer? What does the Edge look like? >> So, we do have customers on that front. Right now we're working with some big names out there. Basically delivering solutions for 12 inch depth racks at the bottom of radio towers or near cell sites. And ultimately working our way up closer to what would look like, what I like to call a "closet" data center, if you will. Where we also have a platform with multiple systems that's able to be hosted in the environment. So, that's really about not only having one piece of the equation but really being able to get closer to the data center. >> All right. And Arturo, help bring us in because we know Canonical's a software company. What's the Edge mean to your customers and where does Canonical fit? >> So, Canonical, we take pride of being an ubiquitous platform, right? So, it doesn't matter where the Edge, or what the Edge is, right? There is an Ubuntu platform. There is an Ubuntu operating system for every single domain of compute, going from the very end of the Edge. That device that sits on your house or that drone that is flying around. And you need to do some application businesses, or to post on application businesses with, all the way to the core rank. Our OpenStack story starts at the core. But it's interesting as it goes farther from that core, how the density, it's an important factor in how you do things, so. We are able, with Kontron, to provide an operating system and tooling to tackle several of those compute domains that are part of the cloud where real estate is really expensive, right. >> Eric, so you all are a systems developer? Is that a fair two-word phrase? It's hardware and software? >> Basically, we do our original design. >> Okay. I know where I am. >> Manufacturing. >> So, I'm two steps away from hardware. So, I think of those as all systems. But you build things? >> Eric: Correct. >> And you work with software. I think for folks that have been a little more abstract, you tend to think, "Well, in those towers, there must be some bespoke chips and some other stuff but nothing very sophisticated." At this point we're running, or that your customers are running, full OpenStack installations on your system hardware. >> Eric: Correct. >> That's in there and it's rugged and it's upgradable. Can you talk a little bit about the business impact, of that sort of thing, as you go out and work with your customers? >> Certainly. So, one of the challenges that we saw there was really that, from a hardware perspective, people didn't really think about making sure that, once the box is shipped, how do you get the software on it, right. Typically, it's a push and forget approach. And this is where we saw a big gap, that it doesn't make any sense for folks to figure that on their own. A lot of those people out there are actually application developers. They don't have the networking background. They don't have a hardware engineering background. And the last thing they want to be doing is spending weeks, if not months, figuring out how to deploy OpenStack, or Kubernetes, or other solutions out there. So, that's where we leverage Canonical's tools, including MAAS and Juju, to really deploy that easily, at scale, and automated. Along with packaging some documentation, some proper steps on how to deploy the environment quickly in a few hours instead of just sitting there scratching your head and trying to figure it out, right. Because that's the last thing they want. The minute they have the box in their hand they already want to consume the resources and get up and running, so. That's really the mission we want to tackle that you're not going to see from most hardware vendors out there. >> Yeah, it's interesting. We often talk about scale, and our term, it's a very different scale when you talk about how fast it's deployed. We're not talking about tens or hundreds of thousands of cores for one environment. It's way more distributed. >> Yeah. It's a different type of scale. It's still a scale but the building block is different, right. So, we take the orders of magnitude more of points of presence than there are data centers, right. At that scale, and the farther you go again from the core, the larger the scale it is. But the building block is different. And the ability to play, the price of the compute is different. It goes much higher, right? So, going back again, that ability to condense in OpenStack, the ability to deliver a Kubernetes within that little space, is pretty unique, right? And while we're still figuring out what technology goes on the Edge, we still need to account for, as Eric said, the economics of that Edge play a big, big part of that gain, right. So, there is a scale, it's in the thousands of points of presence, in the hundreds of thousands of points of presence, or different buildings where you can put an Edge cloud, or the use-case are still being defined, but it's scaled on a different building block. >> Well, Arturo, just to clarify for myself, sometimes when you're looking at an OpenStack component diagram, there's a lot of components and I don't know how many nodes I'm going to have to run. And they're all talking to each other. But at the Edge, even though there's powerful hardware there, there's an overhead consideration, right? >> Yes. Absolutely and that's going to be there. And OpenStack might evolve but might not evolve. But this is something we are tackling today, right. That's why I love the fact that Kontron has also a Kubernetes cluster, right. That multi-technology, the real multi-cloud is a multi-technology approach to the Edge, right. There are all the things that we can put in the Edge and the access is set. It's not defined. We need to know exactly how much room you have, how you make the most out of each of your cores or each of the gigs of RAM out there. So, OpenStack obviously is heavy for some parts of the Edge. Kontron, with our help, has pushed that to the minimum Openstack viable that allows you not to roll a track when you need to do something on that location, right. As that is as effective as it can get today. >> Eric, can you help put this in a framework of cloud, in general. When I think of Edge, a lot of it data's going to need to go back to data centers or a public cloud, multiple public cloud providers. How do your customers deal with that? Are you using Kubernetes to help them span between public cloud and the Edge? >> So, it's a mix of both. Right now we're doing some work to see how you can utilize idle processing time, along with Kubernetes scheduling and orchestration capabilities. But also OpenStack really caters to the more traditional SDNN of the use-case out there to run your traditional applications. So, that's two things that we get out of the platform. But it's also understanding how much data do you want to go back to the data center and making sure that most of the processing is as close as possible. That goes along with 5G, of course. You literally don't have the time to go back to the data centers. So, it's really about putting those capabilities, whether it's FPGAs, GPUs, and those platform, and really enabling that as close as possible to the Edge, or the end user, should I say. >> Eric, I know you're in the carrier space. Can you talk a little, maybe Kontron in general? And maybe how you, in your career as you go the next decades looking at imbed-able technology everywhere, and what do you all see as the vision of where we're headed? >> Oh, wow. That's a hell of a question. >> That's a big question to throw on you. >> I think it's very interesting to see where things are going. There's a lot of consolidation. And you have all these opensource project that needs to work together. The fact that OpenStack is embracing the reality that Kubernetes is going to be there to drive workloads. And they're not stepping on each others' throat, not even near. So, this is where the collaboration, between what we're seeing from the OpenStack Foundation along with the projects from the Linux Foundation, this is really, really interesting to see this moving forward. Other projects upcoming, like ONAP and Akraino, it's going to be very interesting for the next 24 months, to see what it's going to shape into. >> One of the near things, you mentioned 5G and we've been watching, what's available, how that roll-out's going to go into the various pieces. Is this ecosystem ready for that? Going to take advantage of it? And how soon until it is real for customers? >> The hardware is ready. That's for sure. It's really going to be about making sure if you have a split environment that's based on X86, or a split with ARM, it's going to be about making sure that these environments can interact with each other. The service chaining is probably the most complicated aspect there is to what people want to be doing there. And there's a bit of a tie, rope-pulling, from one side to another still but it's finally starting to put in to play. So, I think that the fact that Akraino, which is going to bring a version of OpenStack within the Linux Foundation, this is going to be really unlocking the capabilities that are out there to deploy the solution. And tying along with that, with hardware that has a single purpose, that's able to cater all the use-cases, and not just think about one vertical. "And then this box does this and this other box does another use-case." I think that's the pitfall that a lot of vendors fallen into. Instead of just, "Okay, for a second think outside the box. How many applications could you fit in this footprint?" And there probably going to be big data and multiple use-cases, that are nowhere near each other. So, don't try to do this very specific platform and just make sure that you're able to cater pretty much everyone. It's probably going to do the job, right, so. >> There's over 40 sessions on Edge Computing here. Why don't we just give both of you the opportunity to give us a closing remarks on the importance of Edge, what you're seeing here at the show, and final takeaways. >> From our side, from the Canonical side again, the Edge is whatever is not core. That really has different domains of compute. There is an Ubuntu for each of one of those domains. As Eric mentioned, this is important because you have a common platform, not only in the hardware perspective or the orchestrating technologies and their needs, which are evolving fast. And we have the ability, because how we are built, to accommodate or to build on all of those technologies. And be able to allow developers to choose what they want to do or how they want to do it. Try and try again, in different types of technologies and finally get to that interesting thing, right. There is that application layer that still needs to be developed to make the best use out of the existing technologies. So, it's going to be interesting to see how applications and the technologies evolve together. And we are in a great position as a common platform to all of those compute domains on all of those technologies from the economical perspective. >> On our side, what we see, it's really about making sure it's a density play. At the Edge, and the closer you go to these more wild environments, it's not data centers with 30 kilowatts per rack. You don't have the luxury of putting in, what I like to call whiteboards, 36 inch servers or open-compute systems. So, we really want to make sure that we're able to cater to that. We do have the products for it along with the technologies that Canonical are bringing in on that front. We're able to easily roll-out multiple types of application for those different use-cases. And, ultimately, it's all going to be about density, power efficiency, and making sure that your time to production with the environment is as short as possible. Because the minute they'll want access to that platform, you need to be ready to roll it out. Otherwise, you're going to be lagging behind. >> Eric and Arturo, thanks so much for coming on the program and giving us all the updates on Edge Computing here. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman. Back with lots more coverage here from OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (exciting music)