>>Welcome back to Boston. Everybody watching the cubes coverage, OFS reinforce 22 from Boston, Atlanta chow lobster, the SOS a ruin in my summer, Andy and Smith is here is the CMO of laminar. Andy. Good to see you. Good >>To see you. Great to be >>Here. So laminar came outta stealth last year, 2021, sort of, as we were exiting the isolation economy. Yeah. Why was laminar started >>Really about there's there's two mega trends in the industry that, that created a problem that wasn't being addressed. Right? So the two mega trends was cloud transformation. Obviously that's been going on for a while, but what most people doesn't don't realize is it really accelerated with COVID right? Being all, everybody having to be remote, et cetera, various stats I've read like increased five times, right? So cloud transformation are now you are now problem, right? That's going on? And then the other next big mega trend is data democratization. So more data in the cloud than ever before. And this is, this is just going and going and going. And the result of those two things, more data in the cloud, how am I securing that data? You know, the, the, the breach culture we're in like every day, a new, a new data breach coming up, et cetera, just one Twitter, one yesterday, et cetera. The, those two things have caused a gap with data security teams and, and that's what he >>Heard at attract. Yeah. So, you know, to your point and we track this stuff pretty carefully quarterly, and you saw, it was really interesting trend. You actually saw AWS's growth rate accelerate during the pandemic. Absolutely. You know? Absolutely. So you're talking about, you know, a couple of hundred billion dollars for the big four clouds. If you, if you include Alibaba and it's still growing at 35, you know, 40% a year, which is astounding, so, okay. So more cloud, more data. Explain why that's a, a problem for practitioners. >>Yeah, exactly. The reality is in, in the security, what, what are we doing? What all the security it's about protecting your data in the end, right? Like, like we're here at this at, at reinforce all these security vendors here really it's about protecting your data, your sensitive data. And, but what, what had been happening is all the focus was on the infrastructure, the network, et cetera, et cetera, and not as much focus, particularly on the data and, and the move to the cloud gave the developers and the data scientists, way more power. They don't longer have to ask for permission. And so they can just do what they want. And it's actually wonderful for the business. The business is moving faster, you spin up applications sooner, you get new, new insights. So all those things are really great, but because the developer has so much power, they can just copy data over here, make a backup over here, new et cetera. And, and security has no idea about all these copies of the, of the data that are out there. And they're typically not as well protected as that main production source. And that's the gap that >>Exists. Okay. So there was this shift from sort of perimeter hardening the perimeter, hardening the infrastructure and, and now your premises, it's moving to the data we saw when, when there was during the pandemic, there was definitely a shift to end point security. There was a shift to cloud security rethinking the network, but it was still a lot of, you know, kind of cha chasing the whackamole and people have talked about this is a data problem for years. Yeah. But it was, it's taken a while for, for companies, for the technology industry to, to come at it. You guys are one of the first, if not the first. Yeah. Why do you think it took so long? Is this cuz it's really hard. >>Yeah. I mean, it, it's hard. You need to focus on it. The, the traditional security has been around the network and the box, right. And those are still necessary. It's important to, you know, your use identity to cover the edge, to, to make sure people can't get into the box, but you also have to have data. So what, what happens is there's really good solutions for enterprise data security, looking at database, you know, technology, et cetera. There are good solutions for cloud infrastructure security. So the CSP of the world and the CWPP are protecting containers, you know, protecting the infrastructure. But there really wasn't much for cloud everything you build and run in the cloud. So basically your custom application, your custom applications in the IAS and PAs environments, there really wasn't anything solving that. And that's really where laminar is focused. >>Okay. So you guys use this term shadow data. We talk about shadow. It what's shadow data. >>Yeah. So what we're finding at a hundred percent of our customer environments and our POVs and talking to CISOs out there is that they have these shadow data assets and shadow data elements that they have no clue that existed. So here's the example. Everybody knows the main RDS database that is in production. And this is where, you know, our, our data is taken from. But what people don't realize is there's a copy of that. You know, in a dev environment, somebody went to run a test and they was supposed to be there for two weeks. But then that developer left forgot, left it there. They left the company, oh, now it's been there for two years that there was an original SQL database left over from a lift and shift project. They got moved to RDS, but nobody deleted that thing there, you know, it's a database connected to an application, the application left, but that database, that abandoned database is still sitting. These are all real life customer examples of shadow data that we run into. And there's, and what the problem is that main production data store is secured pretty well. It's following all your policies, et cetera. But all these shadow data resources are typically less well protected unmonitored. And that is what the attackers are after. >>So you're, you know, the old, the, the Watergate follow the money, you're following the data, >>Following the data. >>How do you follow that data if there's so much of it, it, and it's, you know, sometimes, you know, not really well understood where it is. How do you know where >>It is? Yeah. It's the beauty of partnering with somebody like AWS, right? So with each of the cloud providers, we actually take a role in your cloud account and use the APIs from the cloud provider to see all the changes in all the instances are going on. Like it is, the problem is way more complicated in the cloud because I mean, AWS has over 200 services, dozens of ways to store data, right. It's wonderful for the developer, but it's very hard for the security practitioner. And so, because we have that visibility through the cloud provider's APIs, we can see all those changes that are happening. We can then say, ah, that's a data store. Let me go analyze, make a copy, have a snapshot of that and do the analyzing of that data right inside our customer's account without pulling the data out. And we have complete visibility to everything. And then we can give that data catalog over to the customer. >>All right. I gotta ask you a couple Colombo questions. So if you know, we talk about encryption, everything's encrypted everything. If, if the data is encrypted, why then would I need laminar? >>Because I mean, we'll make sure that the data's encrypted okay. Right. Often. So it's not supposed to be and not right. Two is, we're gonna tell you what type of data is inside there. Oh, is this, is this health information? Is it personal identify information? Is it credit cards? You know, et cetera, C so we'll classify the data for you. We will also, then there's things like retention, period. How long should we, I hold onto that data, all the things about what are, who has access, what's the exposure level for that data. And so when you, when you think about data security posture, what's the posture of that data you're looking at at those data policies. It's something that has been very well defined and written down. But in the past, there was just no way to go verify that those, that, that, that policy is actually being followed. And so we're doing that verification automatically. >>So without the context, you can't answer those other questions. So you make sure it's encrypted. If it's not, or you can at least notify me that it's not, you don't do the encryption. Right. Or do you, >>We don't do it ourselves, but we can give you here. Here's the command in and the Amazon to go encrypt it >>Right. Then I can automate that. And then the classification is key because now you're telling me the context. So I can say, okay, apply this policy to that data, retain it for this long, get rid of it after X number of years, or if it's work, process, get rid of it now. Yeah. And then who should have access to that data. And so you can help at least inform how to enforce those policies. >>Exactly. And so we, we, we call it guided remediation because what we're, you know, talking to a CISO, they're like, I need 400 more alerts, like a hole in the head like that. Doesn't do me any good. If you can't tell me how to resolve the, the, the, this security gap that I have or this, then it doesn't do any good. And, and the first, first it starts with who do I need to go talk to? Right. So they have hundreds, if not thousands of developers. Oh, great. You found this issue. I, I, I don't know who to go. Like, I can't just delete it myself, but I need to go talk to somebody really, should this be deleted? We need, do we really, really need to hold onto this? So we, we help guide who the data owner is. So we give you who to talk to. You, give you all the context. Here's the data, here's the data asset that it's in. Here's our suggestion. Here's the problem. Here's our suggestion for >>Solution. And you started the company on AWS >>Started on AWS. Absolutely. >>So what's of course it's best cloud and why not start there? So what's the relationship like, I mean, how'd you get started? You said, okay, Hey, we're we got an idea for a company. We're gonna build it on AWS. We're gonna become a customer. We're gonna, you know, >>We actually, so insight partners is our main investor. Yeah. And they were very helpful in giving us access to literally hundreds of CSOs, who we had conversations with before we actually launched the company. And so we did some shifting and to, to figure out our exact use case. But by the time we came to market, it was in February this year, we actually GAed the product that, where like product market fit nailed because we'd had so many conversations that we knew the problem in the market that we needed to solve. And we knew where we needed to solve it first. And, and the, the, the relationship we AWS is great. We just got on the marketplace, just became a, a partner. So really good. Good >>Start. So I gotta ask you, so I always ask this question. So how do you actually know when you have product market fit? >>You it's about those conversations. Right. You know, so like, I I've been to lots of startups and sometimes you're you're, you, you each have a conversation and then they, they saying, oh, well kind of want this. And we kind of like that. And so it, the more conversations you have, the more, you know, you're solving a real problem. Right. And, and, and, and, and you re react to what that, what that prospect is telling you back and, or that advisor or that whoever we're talking to. And, and every single one of the CISO conversations we had was I don't have a good inventory of my data in the cloud. >>The reason I asked that, cause I always ask the startups, like, when do you scale? Cause I think startups sometimes scale too fast. They try to scale too fast, they'll hire 50 sales people. And then they, you know, churn, you know, they, they got a 50% churn, but they're trying to optimize their go to market when they got 50% of their customers are gonna leave. So it's, it's gotta be the sequential thing. So, so you got product market fit. So are, are you in the scaling phase >>Now? We are. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So now it's about how quickly can we deliver? We, we we're ramping customer base significantly. And, and you know, we've got a whole go to market team in, you know, sales and marketing in the us and, and often off to the races >>And you just run on AWS or you run another clouds. >>It's multi-cloud so AWS, Azure, GCP, et cetera. >>Okay. So then my least my next question is it sort of, you can do this within each of the individual clouds today. Do you see a day and maybe it's here today is where you can create a single experience across those clouds >>Today. It's a single experience across cloud. So our SaaS, we have our SaaS portion runs in AWS, but the actual data analysis runs in each cloud provider. So AWS, Azure, GCP and snowflake too, actually. >>Ah, okay. So I come through your whatever portal, like if I can use that term. Yep. And that's running on AWS. Yes. You're SAS, as you say, and then you go out to these other environments, GCP, Azure, AWS itself, and snowflake. Yep. And I see laminar, is that right? Or >>There's a piece running inside our customer's environment. Okay. So, so we have a customer, they, the, we have, we get a role inside of their cloud account or read only role inside of their cloud account. And we spin up serverless functions in that cloud account. That's where all the analysis happens. And that's why we don't take any data out of the environment. So it all stays there. And, and therefore we don't, we don't actually see the data outside of the environment. Like, I, I can tell you there's a metadata comes out. I can tell you, there are credit cards inside that data store, but I can't tell you exactly which credit card it is cuz I don't know. So all the important actions happens are there and just the metadata metadata comes out. So we can give you a cross cloud dashboard of all your sensitive data. >>And of course, so take the example of snowflake. They're going across clouds, they're building what we call super cloud sort of, of a layer that floats on top. You're just sort of going wherever that data goes. >>Yeah, exactly. So, so each of there's a component that lives in the customer's environment in the, in those multi-cloud environments and then a single view of the world dashboard that is our SaaS component that runs an AWS. So >>You guys are, is, am I correct? You're series a funded >>Series, a funded yeah, exactly. >>And, and already scaling to go to market. Yeah. Which is, which is early to scale. Right. I mean you've got startup experience. Right? >>Absolutely. >>How does it compare? >>Well, what was amazing here was access. I mean, really it was through the relationship with insight. It was access to the CISOs that I had never had at any of the other startups I was with. You're trying to get meetings, you're meeting with a lot of practitioners, you know, et cetera. But getting all those conversations with buyers was, was super valuable for us to say, ah, I know I'm solving a real problem that has value that they will pay for. Right. And, and, and so that, that was a year and a half probably still of all that work going on. We just, just waited to GA until we understood the market >>Better. Yeah. Insight. They're amazing. The way to talk about scaling. I mean, they've just the last 10 years that comp that, that PE firm has just gone wild in terms of just their, their philosophy, their approach, their cadence, their consistency. And now of course their portfolio. >>Yeah. And, and they started doing a little bit earlier and earlier stage. I mean, I, I always think of them as PE too, but you know, they, they did our seed round. Right. They did our a round and, and they're doing earlier stages, but particularly what they saw in Laar was exactly what we started this conversation with. They saw cloud transformation speeding up, they saw data democratization happening. They're like, we need to invest in this now because this is a now a problem to solve. >>Yeah. It's interesting. Cuz when you go back even pre 2010, you talk to, you know, look at insight, they would wait. They would invest in companies unless there was, you know, on the way to five plus million dollar ARR, they weren't doing seed deals. Totally. Like they saw, wow, these actually can be pretty lucrative and we can play and we have a point of view and yeah. So cool. Well, congratulations. I'll give you the final word. What, what should we be watching for from, from Laar as sort of, you know, milestones that you guys want to hit and, and indicators of success. >>Yeah. Now it's all about growth partnerships, you know, integrations with, with other of the players out here. Right. And so, you know, like scaling our AWS partnership is one of the key aspects for us. And so, you know, just look for, look for the name out there and, and you'll start, you'll start to see it a lot more. And, and if, if you have the need, you know, come look us up. Laar security.com. >>Awesome. Well thanks very much for coming to Cuban. Good luck. Appreciate it. All right. >>Wonderful. Thanks. You're >>Welcome. All right. Keep it right there, everybody. This is Dave ante. We'll be back right after this short break from AWS reinvent 2022 in Boston. You're watching the cue.

>>Fly from San Francisco. It's the cube covering RSA conference, 2020 San Francisco brought to you by Silicon angle media >>and welcome back. You're ready Jeffrey here with the cube. We are a day four here at the RSA conference in Moscone Thursday. We've been going all day Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. It's a huge conference over 40,000 people, you know, kind of the first big us conference after the mobile world Congress thing with a coronavirus. So we were all kind of curious to see how it would work out. There was some companies that pulled out but you know Rohit and the team stayed the course, they got the support they needed from the city and it's turned out to be quite a show. So I'm sure there's a lot of people all over the industry kind of watching this as an indicator of how do you execute a conference and these kinds of crazy times. So we're excited for our next guest. He's Andy Smith, the senior vice president of marketing for Centrify. >>Andy, great to see you. Good to be here, Jeff. Doing great. So you said you've been coming to this show for a while, you're a seasoned veteran of the industry. First off kind of general impressions of this show versus versus other kinds of RSAs you've been doing in the past. It's super interesting to watch. It ebbs and flows of the security industry, right? I mean I've been 15 years over the past 25 I've been at this show and you've seen it be big and then shrink down, you know, to one hall and then the two halls again. I mean what's interesting the last couple of years is it's, it's big again, like security is hot. We know budgets are going up, a breach, cultures out there. And so, you know, the IC, the RSA show is a reflection of what's happening with the industry when you look at the size and number of attendees. >>Right. The other kind of theme this year was the human centric, uh, boat. And we had row head guy on just a little bit earlier in his keynote. I thought it was really interesting. It was not about security per se. It was not about threats and detection. It was really about stories and narratives and peoples and kind of taking that back as an industry. I wonder, you know, kinda your impression as this kind of human centric theme as we're surrounded by tech tech and more tech. It is, if you think about human centric, it's a, it's a big piece of your, your security strategy, right? I mean, uh, what, there was just this morning, uh, one of the sharks got fished, right? Lost $400,000. One of the, yeah. And so, uh, you know, educating people about looking out for fishing attacks, right? Uh, uh, looking at insiders who are one of our biggest threats and you know, they're, they're a huge piece of this is not technology at all. >>Right? I thought Wendy's keynote was great too from Cisco. Talking about everything we do on computers is about clicking. And yet we tell people, you know, click the download the patch, but don't click on anything else. And really, you know, kind of taken an approach that people need to be part of the solution. They're not these horrible people that keep clicking on the wrong things, but you really need to integrate them into your strategy. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's about educating your workforce. It's about educating consumers, right? Whether you're talking B to C security or whether you're talking to me to be that human element and educating to be diligent right to you, you got to know a little bit about how to look for something that might be suspicious and know what is, what you should be clicking on, what you shouldn't. There's, there's not a lot of technology that can solve that for you. >>It's getting out and, and, and making sure people are educated. And unfortunately, the bad guys have been working hard on their grammar and, uh, and doing all the AI on the background. So, you know, it's not, a lot of things today are not easily identifiable like they used to. They've gotten, that's no longer really kind of a baseline, a hope not to click that thing. They've gotten way better. Right? So rather than these attacks that are spray and pray, they're going after, you know, just going after anybody. They can, they're targeted now. Right? So spear fishing, right. And uh, and so specific individuals. And that's why one of the things that, that is a little bit coming up at this show and something that we talk about is identity centric security. So that you've got a tie, that kind of human element to your security. >>You know, there's network centric, but getting identity centric and tying that human element to your security aspect, making sure the security, the identity technologies and the security technologies are working together. That is brings that human element into your own security strategy. And when you, when you talk about identity, how should people be thinking about identity? Because clearly we see the kind of the rise in multi-factor now, right? We have to do, we have to go to the, our phones all the time with the code. Now we're hearing people, you know, can spoof identity, they can Smoove faces. I guess identity is not a face, but you know, some of these indicators of identity. So when you help people think about identity, what are some of the factors they should think about? What are the things they don't but they should be thinking about? Yeah, yeah. >>I mean some of the things that we talked a lot about is multifactor authentication. So although yes, right, real sophisticated people can have ways of getting around that, but most attackers and hackers are lazy, right? They're going to go for somebody who's got no multi-factor in place, like even doing the basics is way better than doing nothing. I mean, the statistics bear out that you do a little something right? And then you can always step it up and get more sophisticated where you've got tokens that you have to put your finger on, right? And you know, you can get smart cards and all those kinds of things. You can get much more sophisticated, but multi-factor in general works. I mean, you're just going to take it a far bit above. But what's interesting about identity, because we always think of humans, right? But when we talk identity, where this market is going is identity is machines. >>You have to give a machine an identity, you have to give a service account, an identity, you have to give a microservice identity. And these more and more, this is just completely automated world. This isn't humans logging into things anymore. This is microservices talking to each other. Each of those needs an identity needs an authorization cause they have accounts that can be hacked also. Right? So the you need protect those just as much as needed to protect those human accounts. It's funny cause we, we cover a lot of RPA shows, right? And the whole talk of, of of people that do RPA, right, is that they're, they're, they treat them as people, right? They treat them as kind of like your little assistance, your own little bot to do little tasks that you assigned them to do. So treating them with kind of an identity protocol. >>Then that gives all the authorizations and you kind of leverage all that back end is the way to integrate them into the workforce. Absolutely. It's all about access controls, authentication, authorization. Those are the controls that have been there forever. You're supplying these two new types of identities and you know, the, we're in the privileged access management space, so it used to always be a windows admin or a Unix Linux admin logging into a physical box, right? And so it was about protecting those accounts. But more and more it's about giving a machine and identity and a microservice and identity and how are those things talking to each other? We're protecting, that's all completely automated with dev ops. You think about if I have a, as I moved to the cloud, I want to be able to scale out dynamically, right? Uh, horizontally, vertically. So all of a sudden new servers, virtual servers or containers just popping up automatically. >>You have to be able to control the access to all those automatically, dynamically on the spot, and then they shrink back down. You need to get rid of all that, right? So the automation that's come into our space, although the same, I'm still trying to do authentication, authorization, same type of privilege access controls we've been doing for 30 years, but how they're applied in this new world is much different right now. What about then you layer you layer on top of that zero trust, so I definitely want to identify, but I have zero trust and I'm presuming at some point in time you might end up either being a bad guy or some bad guy's going to come in via your credential. How does the zero trust piece fit on top of the identity kind of management? It's really why we're talking about identity centric security now is because you can't, you, you have to assume somebody on your network. >>You can't trust all those perimeter controls that are there. The reality is they're going to get in and so that identity centric security starts at that access layer and not not trusting just because you got onto the network that, Oh, sure, here you go. You can, you can do whatever you want. That's where zero trust comes in. I don't, every time I want to get access to a piece of data or a system, et cetera, I need to do that F indication that authorization apply, that multi-factor. Those are all identity centric controls that result in this, this journey towards the zero trust world. It's, it's funny, uh, I've sat down with Mike and Caesar, uh, for scout and you know, he talks about when they do the little sniff on all the little devices that are plugged into the networks and it's usually multiples back of what people think are on the network, especially remote location. >>People are plugging stuff in. But then too, you know, like you said in the machine, identify, you know, what should a logic cam do and how should it act. And as soon as it starts acting and asking for things in accounts payable, maybe that's not necessarily what a lot to take camera wants do or should be doing. Yeah. Yeah. And so first there's like knowing what that device is giving you an identity so he know what it is, know what it should be doing. It has a role, it has specific access and authorization rights that are granted to it. So the logic camera, if I know what that camera is, you have an identity. I know what it's supposed to be doing. I should be able to restrict the access it has to just what it needs to do. Right. Rather than it's got root account to do whatever or some God account to create, you know, like those are the kinds of controls we have in place. >>And it's just logical identity management controls that have been there forever. But you're a, once you can identify those devices connected, you can, you can give them those, you know, limited. There's talk about least privilege, right? That's again, a 30 year old control, but giving at least privilege on just what it should do and nothing more. And do you see in the future just more and more kind of multifactor, uh, validation points that we'll have to get added to the, to the process as we move from single factor to factor, however many factors is going to take? For sure. Yeah. I mean, so the multi-factor, cause there's one thing are you authenticate yourself at the front door, right? So that's what most authentication is, but there's this concept of continuous authentication. You're the trust in that, uh, that initial authentication degrades as your session goes on. >>Right? So the longer I've had a session open, you know, is that still that same person or that same service that is clicking away at the keyboard there? There's cool stuff, wrong continuous authentication where there they can tell it's still the same person based on the cadence. They click on the keyboard, other biometric methods, the swiping I do on my phone and stuff like that. So there's ways to have continuous concepts now called continuous authentication. Right? And so I absolutely see that those behavior based, uh, types of, uh, of authentication. You're going out through a user's entire session. So I want to shift gears a little bit. One of the things that amazes me about this show, and I don't know when it was small, but it's been big ever since I've been coming. It's right, there's so many vendors here, there's so many companies in this and there's so many kinds of stories that a lot of really enthusiastic people work in booths that are screaming at you to come over and tell you all the great things they do. >>From a marketing point of view, you're, you're the SVP marketing. How do you, you know, kind of package your messaging, how do you kind of break through the clutter? What advice do you give to, to buyers, um, to help them kind of navigate what is a, a very large, loud and complex system? Yeah, it's a, it's a complex battle, right? So you have to be able to, because there are so many different technologies here, uh, in, in the security arena, uh, we're all fighting for the same share of wallet in a sense. Right? And so first you have to identify yourself with something people recognize a market that people recognize like identity, privilege, access management, endpoint security, you know, et cetera. But then you have to differentiate yourself within that market, right? So you've got to add something to the market space I'm in to that gives a little twist. >>So for us, it's identity centric, privilege access management and that, you know, we suppose that against Balt centric or you know, something else that we've tried to put the other bets. So you try to, in your message, you got to categorize what's the space I'm in and how do I differentiate? And in something as short and brand-able as possible. And then you got to have this kind of ongoing solutions, partnership relationship with, with your clients, right? Because this is not something you're going to be switching things out that frequently and, and, and, and the landscape and the threats evolve and change so rapidly. I think we've had a number of people come on to publish this report or that report, his report, he's come out every six months and there's actually the online version so he can keep up with what happened today or what happens tomorrow. >>So not an easy, uh, not an easy kind of marketing challenge to stay relevant, stay connected and state stay really in people's mind. Well, and you know, there's, there's awareness aspects to it and it is really just what really helps is you just create as many happy customers as you can. Right? I mean, you're amazed at the how connected this industry actually is. I mean, the attendees that are coming to this conference, they know each other. They've been coming here from here. It's just like we have. Right, right. And a word of mouth between people who have used your technology, they share that with something else. I mean the security industry as big as it is, it's, it's super interconnected. One person goes from one company to the other and so tons of business just comes from word of mouth, referral, etc. So the happier you can keep your customers, the more uh, you know, mind share. >>You can get up there. Okay. Last question before I let you go. We just like to say we just had row hit on one of the topics was they just got bought by a symphony. I think it's symphony, a private equity firm. Um, we met the other night at a, at a cocktail party put on by Tom Thoma Bravo and you were at Centrify before they came in. And after, you know, I think some people are kind of confused, you know, what is private equity, how does it impact the company? So wonder if you can kind of share, you know, how that transition has come along and you know, kind of give us an update on what's going on at Centrify and where you guys are going next. Yeah, so we were acquired about a year and a half ago now, uh, by private equity and you know, they basically, they take later stage companies and uh, help them get, uh, profitable, uh, they increased value and then they look for going, taking that company IPO or selling it off, et cetera. >>Right? But it's really about looking for opportunities, uh, in existing market with larger companies, the venture capitalists will go after smaller, much larger risks. These are bigger dollar amounts, right? Larger companies. But then they, they look about how to optimize. They're very sophisticated on how to run a B to B business. Tama Bravo happens to have a huge investment in security and it comes like eight or 10 companies there the other night. Yeah. So they, they realize that this is a hot space right now. So they've, if they can take a company and create value that they realize that there's more stuff popping up. There's probably money being invested in. And one of the things that, but not all private equities created equal. Yes, they are about all about kind of optimizing, increasing value. But what we really found with Tom or Bravo is they're interested in investing in that company, looking at other folds and acquisitions, et cetera. >>And that's a part of a strategy for me as a, as a manager and an I'm part of the executive team. When you're backed, they don't have the money to go after acquisitions. Uh, like that they, you know, they make these smaller investments. We're talking about Bravo actually does have the capital to look at other things that can be immediately accretive and add to your value. And that's a, a real part of our strategy now that didn't exist before we were owned by PE. I think they spun out a whole nother, another company out of what your technology say. Correct. Exactly. So one of the unique things about our particular acquisition is Centrify was both a privileged access management. And a identity as a service. And I Daz a company and they looked at what we were doing and they said, geez, you're really selling to two different markets and it's two different sales cycles and two different business models. >>We could actually create more value if we split these up and each of you focused on your individual markets. And so that there's a, there's an MQ and a market segment and a wave for IDASS and there's an MQ and a wave, you know, et cetera for Pam. But there's not anything that does both. And that's what Centrify was. So they actually, we, we completely divested of our IDASS capabilities spun off in an entirely separate company called adaptive. And so over the last year, that's was a lot of the work that was going on. It was, was splitting this company, uh, uh, into two. But it really provided us a much more focused to go after the market that we were going after. Well, they wouldn't come in if they didn't see some opportunity to, uh, to pull some more value out that wasn't really being unlocked. Absolutely. Right. Andy, we'll thank for taking a few minutes and uh, and great to catch up and best you for the rest of the show. Awesome. Thanks a lot, Jay. He's Andy. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cube where? At the RSA show in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.