(lively music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas, the Mandalay Bay for Oracle's Modern CX conference, hashtag Modern CX. This is the CUBE. I'm John Furrier Silicone Angle. My cost, Peter Burch with us for two days. Our next guest is Ron Corbisier. Owner and CEO of Relationship One. Back again, from last year. It was one of my memorable interviews last year. Welcome back-- >> Ron: Thank you for having me. >> to the cube. We went down and dirty last year. I remember we were having a great conversation about ad tech. If you've taken that video, it's on YouTube and look at it, I guarantee you, it's going to play right into what happened this year. Again, we predicted it. We didn't say AI but we did say we're going to see data really driving. That's what Oracle ended up locking in on daily. >> Yeah, absolutely. Data is going to be the underlying conversation for the next few years. We spoke, a lot, last year about martech stack. Actually, martech and ad tech colliding, coming together. All of that is being fueled by the mass quantities of data that we have as sales and marketing folks out there, to leverage and how do you use it. It's never about, do I have enough data? A lot of times you feel you, almost, have too much. But it's, now how can you use it appropriately? >> We were talking, before we came on camera here about that dynamic of ad tech and marteh collision which we talked about last year. It's interesting. If you just say digital, end-to-end, as a fabric, then you can still talk about these pillars of solutions but they're not silos. If you look at the holistic data approach and say, hey, if we're going to have horizontally scalable data which we want, frictionless less than 150 milliseconds responses they want to promote. You can still do your pillars but be open to data sharing versus here's my silent stack. I do this, I do this, that's shifted and that's what Oracle's main news is here. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think what you're seeing, even in, not only Oracle, that organizational level, people are taking a more holistic view of data that they own and data that they can enrich with external information, right? How does that information, then, fuel all of these other areas within customer experience within the CX world? How do you use that to provide better service? How do you use that information to optimize your sales efforts and from a marketing standpoint, obviously, my background, it's how do we leverage that to optimize our spend, optimize our communication, our orchestration, all of those pieces. It all comes down to that common language of data that we have access to. >> Tell me about the real time aspect cause we teased on it last time and we did talk about how to leverage some of the advertising opportunities and the role of data in real time. That's been a message here from batch to real time. The consumer's in motion all the time depending upon their context. How does real time fit into this? >> Yeah, this is the evolution of what we're seeing in the technology, right? Historically, you've built a campaign. You've, maybe, created some type of journey or persona. You're building content around very specific elements within a life cycle structure. Life cycles are not linear any longer. They never really were but they're, definitely, not now and you have to adapt very quickly. Leverage technology, to say, one of my saying, communicating and what channel but in more in a real time thing. You have to look at what was the last thing that individual did, the activity, all of that. Historically, you haven't had that depth or degree of real time lists. It's been more of a structured candance. That doesn't exist, right? That's not going to exist going forward. That's where things like AI which I always hesitate to use that term because it's the buzz word now of today. But tools that are more of that augmentation of how we do things. Leveraging the power of technology. That's going to change how we orchestrate things and how we communicate. >> I'm just looking at your tweet here. I want to bring this up because you mentioned AI and we were talking about it. Thanks to all who stopped by my MME 17 Modern Marketing Experience 17. A little bit of a jab at the messaging that's cool like that. Session on artificial intelligence. Loved all the support from my fellow modern marketers. What do you mean by that? You make a bold statement. Did you have courage? Did you stand tall? Did you call out AI? What was the conversation there? >> Well I called out the silliness of the term AI. I picked on that the marketers but I picked on the term We, as marketers, I call them the squirell moments that, as marketers, we're on to the next thing. I reviewed the past eight some years of these conferences and what were the topics, right? There were some topics that were transformational topics like how does marketing automation or organizational change or those type of things. Those are things that stick with you. There is things that are more timely things. Like predictive scoring and their tactics. There more things that I use as a marketer or sales person. What I was picking on with AI is that it's the buzz word. It gets you funding. It gets you people in a room for a conference, that's great. But it doesn't do anything by itself. It's really an enabler. It's a pervasive thing that combines machine cycle and data but you have to teach it, you have to incorporate it into your applications. As marketers, ultimately, it's going to change our tool set to make it better. It's more poking fun at the term-- >> We always say AI. I've said it on the CUBE, AI's BS. Although, I'm a software guy. I love AI because it really promotes software that has been very nuance. So, IOT, machine learning, this is very geeky computer science stuff that's super cool. Anything that can take that mainstream in the software world, I'm a big fan of. That being said, I think the augmentation is the real message which is, you can use machine learning, you can use software, use some technical things, to make things better. You said it on our earlier segment this morning which is there's a variety of things that you can automate away. >> The thing that's, and you mentioned earlier, it's the ability that we now have the ability to collect an enormous amount of data, that's relevant and important. And we now have the technology to, actually, do something with that data. But we still have to apply it and there's a lot of change that has to happen. The way AI is different from other systems is that, historically, financial systems, software would deliver and answer. It was highly stylized. It was rarely, a clear correspondence with the real world. We closed the books. How much money did we make? There was an answer and it came from some data structures that were defined within the system. Now we're trying to bring in the real world and have these technologies focus on the real world. And they're giving ranges of possible options. That is new. It's good and it's useful but it does not take the requirement for discretion out of the system. That's why it's the augmentation. >> Ron and I were talking last year about this, Peter and I. I think you're getting a trajectory that, I've been saying for a while and this is developing in real time here on the CUBE and also some of our commentary is the role of software development and DevOps that we've seen in Cloud, is moving into the front lines of business. Meaning their techniques. You're seeing Agile, already, being talked about. You're seeing standing up campaigns. Language, you can go to the Cloud stack and say, building blocks, EC2, S3, Cooper Netties, containers, micro services and apply that to marketing because there's a lot of parallels going on to the characteristics of the infrastructure. Certainly critical infrastructure to enabling infrastructure. It's interesting that you're seeing marketers being more savvy and inadative. What's your thoughts on that, a reaction? >> Yeah, it's the evolution though. If you go back to, we as marketers have been using rules engines, we've been using tools like collaborative filtering. You go back to late 90's, early 2000's when we were building recommendation engines in simple. That's algorithmic stuff, right? No different than we're doing today with pricing rules and all that stuff. The difference it that you now have more power to do it. You have the ability to do it more real time and on the fly. You use far more data. More computing power and more data. Not only your data that you own but data that you leverage from third party to really understand people. You have a wider lens. Historically, you're making recommendations based on what you had in a cart or some other things that people have bought that also had that in the cart, that's different now, right? With this type of technology, this enabling kind of world, you an look at a lot more data points to give you that. The problem is that anything around AI requires a couple of things. It is a dumb system so AI. (laughs) >> Still a computer. >> It's still a computer. Everyone forgets that for it to work, it has to learn. I have some friends who have built marketing tools on top of Watson, for example. It takes hundreds and hundreds of hours for it to start doing something. You have to train it. You have to, not only, give it the data, you have to train it. >> Even the word learning and training is misleading in may respects. At the end of the day it's software but what is new is it's being applied in richer, more complex domains. The recommendation engine used to be just for recommendation. Now we're using those same models and we're combining them and applying them to richer more complex domains. Yet, ideally, the software's not getting more difficult to use. And I think what really makes this compelling, as a software engineer, is that we're doing all this more complexity but we're packing it and making it simpler. >> I think that's the point of where Oracle's going and why they don't call it AI. They're using it more the adaptive. Because they're thinking of it at the micro service level. They're thinking of how can they make these widgets of functionality to better the tools we have. To incorporate it into not make it so a jump forward in our tool set. It's just now, an augmented component of what we do today. >> It's, almost, a stack approach. You got foundational building blocks and at the top is high velocity, highly dynamic apps and you could argue, we were talking that the CMO's going to be an app shop, some day. This banks the question and I'd like to get both of you guys to weigh in on this. Because this is a question that I'd like to get on the record. What is modern marketing these days? Define modern marketing because what we're getting at here is, to your point of the evolution is we've seen this movie before. Is it a replatforming? Is it a building block approach? What is a modern marketer? What is a modern marketer mean? How do you execute that? >> I think it's quick and nimble and adaptive. The whole point of modern marketing is that you're always looking at how you can rethink, how you can optimize, how you can leverage technology to do things. It's not about replacing head count with a machine or a tool or a tech. It's really about how do you leverage that head count more effectively? How can you focus on optimization using those technologies. Modern marketing is, again, probably another buzz word but just like modern sales, modern commerce, all of that. It's really about how do you enable it with that stack do better. >> So, is it fashion or is it like hey, there's a modern marketer over there, look at what he or she is wearing. Or is it more technology based that's got some fundamental foundational shifts that are being worked on or both? >> It's leveraging technology and it's leveraging data more effectively and creatively. It's not being stuck with a prescriptive approach on campaign and orchestration and building. It still requires strategy and all of that but it's really how you approach it. >> So, how you think of it. What's your angle on this? >> That's a great question. And that's why I giggled about it. I think you gave a great answer. The three key precepts of Agile are, iterative, opportunistic and empirical and it's nimble quick and you change. But to me, I'll answer the question this way. Modern marketing focuses on delivering value to the customer not back into the business. It used to be that you would deliver into the business. He'd say, oh, we give you a whole bunch of new leads. We give you a whole bunch of this. If along the way, it created value for the customer, that's okay. But more often that not, it was annoying. As customer's can share their experience and share information about how (mumbles) engaged them, that's amplified. Annoying gets amplified. I think if you focus on are you creating value for the customer, you also end up with the derivative element that you're accelerating leads, they are in the process and where they are in the journey. The way I'd answer it. It's not distinct from yours but the idea of modern marketing focuses on creating value for the customer. The only way you, consisting do that is by being nimble and blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. >> I agree, in the same thing though. A core tenant, if you will, of modern marketing is absolutely. It is the value proposition. It's also making sure you understand the impact of the value of proposition The velocity of the pipeline, the impact on revenue, all of those things right? Because it's all about that value which it has to be, from a customers perspective but you're not doing all of the other pieces. You're not going to justify the spend. You're not going to get all of those together. >> Let me see if I can thread the two points together. Cause what I'm seeing, by listening is, you mentioned, the main thing in my mind was the data. That's different right? You're saying okay, thing differently, talk to the customer and the value to the enterprise value is being created through a different mechanism versus just serving it. >> Not really, not really. The fundamental focus, historically, of marketing has been what are we doing for the business? What are we doing for sales? Now, if we focus on, now you say well no. We have to created value for the customer in every thing we do, then we get permission to do things differently. We get more data out of the customer because the trust is there. We're allowed to bias the customer to the next, best option. >> I'm trying to answer my questions. I can see your point. My point is this, the modern marketer is defined by doing it. The business practices it a little bit differently to achieve the same thing. >> By focusing or creating value they have to do things differently and now they can because technology allows them to do it. >> We saw Time Warner, they weren't using data prior. That's a little different. If you go outward to go in, it's a great value while doing the table stake stuff. >> It's changing strategically thinking different of how you do it. Creating that value proposition's very different and also being able to measure and optimize are you doing it correctly? Is it having impact on the business? Most of my customers are not for profits They, actually, have to show, bottom line an impact. All of that requires data and speed and velocity in which we have to run requires tech. >> They got gestures in the market with customers. They have that touch point. They can leverage that. >> Here's (mumbles) modern marketing is not speeding up and increasing the rate and lowering the cost of doing bad marketing. >> No, no, I mean that's exactly. >> It was marketers point. >> That's right. (laughing) You can spend a lot of money to do bad marketing. >> Let's double down on our bad marketing. Ron, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE again. Thanks for sharing the insights. It's always a pleasure to get down and dirty and peel back the onion on some of these things. Final question for you. What do you expect for the evolution for this next year. >> I think AI's going to be with us for awhile just because it's the new buzz word. We've got a couple cycles on that. >> John: It reminds me of Web 2.0, what is it? >> And that lasted for a few years as well. I think over the next year or so, we're going to see the benefits of that augmentation. We're going to, actually, see some of these micro services as people start fueling some of the tools that we already have. You're also going to see some of that further collision of ad tech and mertech. Cause everything's digital and the impact of what that means for us as marketers. >> I can't wait of the hashtag, marketing native. Cause Cloud Native is coming. Someone's going to make it up, I hope not. >> Peter: You did. >> Ron: You just did. >> Okay, Marketing Native. What does that mean? We'll do a whole segment on that. We'll get Ron to come in. Hey, thanks for coming on the CUBE. >> Thanks for having me. >> Great to see you. I'm John Furrier. Peter Burris here inside the CUBE getting all the action. Straight from the data and sharing it with you. Thank you Ron, for coming on again twice in a row, two years in a row. This is the CUBE. We'll be back with more after this short break. (lively music) >> Narrator: Robert Herjavec. >> People, obviously, know you from Shark Tank. But the Herjavec group has been, really, laser folks in cyber security. >> Cause I, actually, helped bring a product called Check Point to Canada, firewalls, URI filtering, that kind of stuff. >> But you're also an entrepreneur? And you know the business. You've been in software, in the tech business. (mumbles) you get a lot of pitches as entertainment meets business. >> On our show, we're a bubble. We don't get to do a lot of tech.