(lively music) >> Narrator: Live, from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2019! Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage in VMworld 2019. We're in San Francisco. We're in Moscone North Lobby. I'm John Frer, my co Stu Miniman, here covering all the action of VMworld, two sets for theCUBE, our tenth year, Stu. Keeping it going. Two great guests, John Fanelli, CUBE Alumni, Vice President of Product, Virtual GPUs at NVIDIA Kevin Gray, Director of Product Marketing, Dell EMC. Thanks for coming back on. Good to see you. >> Awesome. >> Good to see you guys, too. >> NVIDIA, big news, we saw your CEO up on the keynote videoing in. Two big announcements. You got some stats on some Windows stats to talk about. Let's talk about the news first, get the news out of the way. >> Sure, at this show, NVIDIA announced our new product called NVIDIA Virtual Compute Server. So for the very first time anywhere, we're able to virtualize artificial intelligence, deep learning, machine learning, and data analytics. Of course, we did that in conjunction with our partner, VMware. This runs on top of vSphere and also in conjunction with our partner at Dell. All of this Virtual Compute Server runs on Dell VxRail, as well. >> What's the impact going to be for that? What does that mean for the customers? >> For customers, it's really going to be the on-ramp for Enterprise AI. A lot of customers, let's say they have a team of maybe eight data scientists are doing data analytics, if they want to move through GPU today, they have to buy eight GPUs. However, with our new solution, maybe they start with two GPUs and put four users on a GPU. Then as their models get bigger and their data gets bigger, they move to one user per GPU. Then ultimately, because we support multiple GPUs now as part of this, they move to a VM that has maybe four GPUs in it. We allow the enterprise to start to move on to AI and deep learning, in particular, machine learning for data analytics very easily. >> GPUs are in high demand. My son always wants the next NVIDIA, in part told me to get some GPUs from you when you came on. Ask the NVIDIA guy to get some for his gaming rig. Kidding aside, now in the enterprise, really important around some of the data crunching, this has really been a great use case. Talk about how that's changed, how people think about it, and how it's impacted traditional enterprise. >> From a data analytics perspective, the data scientists will ingest data, they'll run some machine learning on it, they'll create an inference model that they run to drive predictive business decisions. What we've done is we've GPU-accelerated the key libraries, the technologies, like PyTorch, XGBoost to use a GPU. The first announcement is about how they can now use Virtual Compute Server to do that. The second announcement is that workflow is, as I mentioned, they'll start small, and then they'll do bigger models, and eventually they want to train that scale. So what they want to do is they want to move to the cloud so they can have hundreds or thousands of GPUs. The second announcement is that NVIDIA and VMware are bringing Virtual Compute Server to VMware Cloud running on AWS with our T4 GPUs. So now I can scale virtually starting with fractional GPU to single GPU to multi GPU, and push a button with HCX and move it directly into AWS T4 accelerated cloud. >> That's the roadmap so you can get in, get the work done, scale up, that's the benefit of that. Availability, timing, when all of this is going to hit in-- >> So Virtual Compute Server is available on Friday, the 29th. We're looking at mid next year for the full suite of VMware Cloud on top of Aws T4. >> Kevin, you guys are supplier here at Dell EMC. What's the positioning there with you guys? >> We're working very closely with NVIDIA in general on all of their efforts around both AI as well as VDI too. We'll work quite a bit, most recently on the VDI front as well. We look to drive things like qualifying the devices. There's both VDI or analytics applications. >> Kevin, bring us up-to-date 'cause it's funny we were talking about this is our 10th year here at the show. I remember sitting across Howard Street here in 2010 and Dell, and HP, and IBM all claiming who had the lowest dollar per desktop as to what they were doing in VDI. It's a way different discussion here in 2019. >> Absolutely. Go ahead. >> One of the things that we've learned with NVIDIA is that it's really about the user experience. It's funny we're at a transition point now from Windows 7 to Windows 10. The last transition was Windows XP to Windows 7. What we did then is we took Windows 7, we tore everything out of it we possibly could, we made it look like XP, and we shoved it out. 10 years later, that doesn't work. Everyone's got their iPhones, their iOS devices, their Android devices. Microsoft's done a great job on Windows 10 being immersive. Now we're focused on user experience. When the VDI environment, as you move to Windows 10, you may not be aware of this, but from Windows 7 to Windows 10, it uses 50% more CPU, and you don't even get that great of a user experience. You pop a GPU in there, and you're good. Most of our customers together are working on a five-year life cycle. That means over the next five years, they're going to get 10 updates of Windows 10, and they're going to get like 60 updates of their Office applications. That means that they want to be future-proof now by putting the GPUs in to guarantee a great user experience. >> On the performance side too, obviously. In auto updates, this is the push notification world we live in. This has to built in from day one. >> Absolutely, and if you look at what Dell's doing, we really built this into both our VxRails and our VxBlocks. GPUs are just now part of it. We do these fully qualified. It stacks specifically for VDI environments as well. We're working a lot with the n-vector tools from VM which makes sure we're-- >> VDI finally made it! >> qualifying user experience. >> All these years. >> Yes, yes. In fact, we have this user experience tool called n-vector, which actually, without getting super technical for the audience, it allows you to look at the user experience based on frame-rate, latency, and image quality. We put this tool together, but Dell has really been taking a lead on testing it and promoting it to the users to really drive the cost-effectiveness. It still is about the dollar per desktop, but it's the dollar per dazzling desktop. (laughing) >> Kevin, I hear the frame-rate in there, and I've got all the remote workers, and you're saying how do I make sure that's not the gaming platform they're using because I know how important that is. >> Absolutely. There's a ton of customers that are out there that we're using. We look at folks like Guillevin as like the example of a company that's worked with us and NVIDIA to truly drive types of applications that are essential to VDI. These types of power workers doing applications like Autodesk, that user experience and that ability to support multiple users. If you look at Pat, he talked a little bit about any cloud, any application, any device. In VDI, that's really what it's about, allowing those workers to come together. >> I think the thing that the two of you mentioned, and Stu you pointed out brilliantly was that VDI is not just an IT thing anymore. It really is the expectation now that my rig, if I'm a gamer, or a young person, the younger kids, if you're under 25, if you don't have a kick-ass rig, (laughs) that's what they call it. Multiple monitors, that's the expectation, again, mobility. Work experience, workspace. >> Exactly, along those same lines, by the way. >> This is the whole category. It's not just like a VDI, this thing over here that used to be talked about as an IT thing. >> It's about the workflow. So it's how do I get my job done. We used to use words like "business worker" and "knowledge worker." It's just I'm a worker. Everybody today uses their phone that's mobile. They use their computer at home, they use their computer at work. They're all running with dual monitors. Dual monitors, sometimes dual 4K monitors. That really benefits as well from having a GPU. I know we're on TV so hopefully some of you guys are watching VDI on your GPU-accelerated. It's things like Skype, WebEX, Zoom, all the collaboration to 'em, Microsoft Teams, they all benefit from our joint solution, like the GPU. >> These new subsystems like GPUs become so critical. They're not just subsystem, they are the main part because the offload is now part of the new operating environment. >> We optimized together jointly using the n-vector tool. We optimized the server and operating environment, so that if you run into GPU, you can right-size your CPU in terms of cores, speed, etc., so that you get the best user experience at a most cost effective way. >> Also, the gaming world helps bring in the new kind of cool visualization. That's going to move into just the workflow of workers. You start to see this immersive experience, VR, ARs obviously around the corner. It's only going to get more complex, more needs for GPUs. >> Yes, in fact, we're seeing more, I think, requirements for AR and VR from business than we are actually for gaming. Don't you want to go into your auto showroom at your house and feel the fine Corinthian leather? >> We got to upgrade our CUBE game, get more GPU focused and get some tracing in there. >> Kevin, I know I've seen things from the Dell family on levering VR in the enterprise space. >> Oh, absolutely. If you look at a lot of the things that we're doing with some of the telcos around 5G. They're very interested in VR and AR. Those are areas that'll continue to use things like GPUs to help accelerate those types of applications. It really does come down to having that scalable infrastructure that's easy to manage and easy to operate. That's where I think the partnership with NVIDIA really comes together. >> Deep learning and all this stuff around data. Michael Dell always comes on theCUBE, talks about it. He sees data as the biggest opportunity and challenge. In whatever applications coming in, you got to be able to pound into that data. That's where AI's really shown... Machine learning has kind of shown that that's helping heavy lifting a lot of things that were either manual. >> Exactly. The one thing that's really great about data analytics that are GPU-accelerated is we can take a job that used to take days and bring it down to hours. Obviously, doing something faster is great, but if I take a job that used to take a week and I can do it in one day, that means I have four more days to do other things. It's almost like I'm hiring people for free because I get four more extra work days. The other thing that's really interesting as our joint solution is you can leverage that same virtual GPU technology. You can do VDI by day and at night, you run Compute. So when your users aren't at work, you migrate them off, you spin up your VMs that are doing your data analytics using our RAPIDS technology, and then you're able to get that platform running 24 by seven. >> Productivity gains just from an infrastructure. Even the user too, up and down, the productivity gains are significant. So I'll get three monitors now. I'm going to get one of those Alienware curved monitors. >> Just the difference we had, we have a suite here at the show, and just the difference, you can see such a difference when you insert the GPUs into the platform. It's just makes all the difference. >> John, I got to ask you a personal question. How many times have people asked you for a GPU? You must get that all the time? >> We do. I have a NVIDIA backpack. When I walk around, there's a lot of people that only know NVIDIA for games. So random people will always ask for that. >> I've got two sons and two daughters and they just nerd out on the GPUs. >> I think he's trying to get me to commit on camera on giving him a GPU. (laughing) I think I'm in trouble here. >> Yeah, they get the latest and greatest. Any new stuff, they're going to be happy to be the first on the block to get the GPU. It's certainly impacted on the infrastructure side, the components, the operating environment, Windows 10. Any other data you guys have to share that you think is notable around how all this is coming together working from user experience around Windows and VDI? >> I think one piece of data, again, going back to your first comment about cost per desktop. We're seeing a lot of migration to Windows 10. Customers are buying our joint solution from Dell which includes our hardware and software. They're buying that five-year life cycle, so we actually put a program in place to really drive down the cost. It's literally like $3 per month to have a GPU-accelerated virtual desktop. It's really great Value for the customers besides the great productivity. >> If you look at doing some of these workloads on premises, some of the costs can come down. We had a recent study around the VxBlock as an example. We showed that running GPUs and VDI can be up as much as 45% less on a VxBlock at scale. When you talk about the whole hybrid cloud, multi-cloud strategy, there's pluses and minuses to both. Certainly, if we look at some of the ability to start small and scale out, whether you're going HCI or you're going CI, I think there's a VDI solution there that can really drive the economics. >> The intense workloads. Is there any industries that are key for you guys in terms of verticals? >> Absolutely. So we're definitely looking at a lot of the CAD/CAM industries. We just did a certification on our platforms with Dassault's CATIA system. That's an area that we'll continue to explore as we move forward. >> I think in the workstation side of things, it's all the standard, it's automotive, it's manufacturing. Architecture is interesting. Architecture is one of those companies that has kind of an S and B profile. They have lots of offices, but they have enterprise requirements for all the hard work that they do. Then with VDI, we're very strong in financial services as well as healthcare. In fact, if you haven't seen, you should come by. We have a Bloomberg demo for financial services about the impact for traders. I have a virtualized GPU desktop. >> The speed is critical for them. Final question. Take-aways from the show this year, 2019 VMworld, Stu, we got 10 years to look back, but guys, take-aways from the show that you're going to take back from this week. >> I think there's still a lot of interest and enthusiasm. Surprisingly, there's still a lot of customers that haven't finished there migration to Windows 10 and they're coming to us saying, Oh my gosh, I only have until January, what can you do to help me? (laughing) >> Get some GPUs. Thoughts from the show. >> The multi-cloud world continues to evolve, the continued partnerships that emerge as part of this is just pretty amazing in how that's changing in things like virtual GPUs and accelerators. That experience that people have come to expect from the cloud is something, for me is a take-away. >> John Fanelli, NVIDIA, thanks for coming on. Congratulations on all the success. Kevin, Dell EMC, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for the insights. Here on theCUBE, Vmworld 2019. John Furrier, Stu Miniman, stay with us for more live coverage after this short break. (lively music)

(upbeat theme music plays) >> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCube. Covering Citrix Synergy, Atlanta, 2019, brought to you by Citrix. >> Hi, welcome back to theCube. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend, and we are live in Atlanta, Georgia for Citrix Synergy, 2019. We are pleased to welcome Jack Gold to The Cube, President and founder of Jack Gold & Associates. Jack, it's great to have you join Keith and me this afternoon. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, we had a great day. We've talked to eight or nine folks or so, lot's of really relevant exciting news from Citrix this morning. Talking about the employee experience as, and how I kind of interpreted it, as a catalyst for digital transformation, cultural transformation. You've been working with Citrix for a long time. I'd love to get your perspective on not just what you heard today from Citrix, and with Google and Microsoft, but in the last year or so since they've really kind of done a re-brand effort. What're your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, it's interesting from a Citrix perspective. Citrix, the old Citrix I guess I would put in quotes right, was always known as the VDI company. I've got, you know, the screen that will talk to the server, that will talk to whatever other apps I need it to talk to, and I can have a nice thin client sitting on my desktop and I don't have to spend a lot of money. And I also don't have to worry about if I'm going to bank people stealing stuff off the hard drive, or whatever. They've made a pretty significant transition that was the old work space, if you will. The modern work spaces which is where Citrix is really moving is one where, look we've all grown up with smart phones for the last ten or fifteen years, our kids don't know anything different. They're not going to deal with anything that's complex, anything where I have to log in and out of applications, anything where I have to switch between screens, this just doesn't make any sense for them. And so, what we're seeing Citrix do is move into an environment where, as I said, it's about the modern workspace, it's about being able to help me do my job not getting in my way of me doing my job, and that's really the transition. It's not just Citrix, the industry is moving in that direction as well, but Citrix is really at the forefront of making a lot of that work now. >> So, Jack, talk to us about the new promise of the new Citrix. The, if you remember me, it had to have be about seven years ago, I did a blog post of running Windows XP on your iPad. It was taking, you know, the then desktop solution and running it on your iPad. >> (Jack) Sure. >> And it was a cool trick. But we talked about, today, we would hope by today, that mobile technology would of forced companies to rewrite applications, for a mobile first experience. But that simply hasn't happened. So, presenting a bad application on to a mobile dot, to a mobile work station, or a mobile device, doesn't work. We end up packing in, trying it, and squeezing, and trying to get our work done, how is Citrix promising to change that experience, even versus their competitors? >> Sure. Well, first of all so two bad's don't make a good. Right. Having a bad app on a bad device doesn't make it good. >> (Keith) Right. >> Doesn't make it easy to use, doesn't help me get my job done. What we really are talking about, now, is the ability to build a workspace. Something where I sit and look at, that helps me get my job done, as opposed to getting in the way. Which means that, instead of having to punch fourteen different holes, or you know, icons and sit at my keyboard and type forty-eight different commands and do thirty-eight different log-ins as each one is different, and by the way I couldn't remember them so I just called the help desk in-between, and that's another half an hour of my time that I didn't want to, that I wasted. >> (laughs) Give me my word perfect templates. >> (Lisa laughs) >> (Jack) There you go, there you go, word perfect I remember that no so well. I remember it well not so nicely. What we're really trying to focus on now is user experience, right. What we're really trying to focus on is if, if you wanted to get your work done, I want to make it easy. Think about it as going to a grocery store. If you can't, if you've got a list of groceries and you can't find what you want in five minutes, you leave, you go somewhere else. You go to another grocery store where things are much easier to find. It's the same at work, or it should be the same at work. Now, that said, a lot of apps and organizations, especially big enterprises where they have, some can have literally thousands of apps, are not going away. The notion that everything is going to go into the modern workspace, where everything looks like a phone, it's a nice idea, it's properly not going to happen. Legacy apps will be legacy apps for a very long time, it's like mainframes are dead, guess what, they're still around. That said, that doesn't mean that you can't take some of those legacy apps and make them easier to use with the proper front-end. And that's really what Citrix is trying to do with the workspaces, and other's again, it's not just Citrix in this, we have to be fair there are lots people working in this space. But, if you can make the front-end workspace more attractive, easier to use, easier to navigate, even if I've got old, clunky stuff in the background. For me as a user, you can give me back fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes a day, an hour a day, that's really productivity. Look, if you're paying me a hundred dollars an hour, and you save me an hour a day you just made a hundred dollars every day that I'm working at that company, that sounds like a lot, but there are people who make that kind of money. Or even a fifty or twenty-five dollars, it all adds up. And so, what we're really doing is trying to move into an environment where if I can make you more productive but making things more easier for you to navigate, and getting in and our of applications more quickly, getting more information to me more quickly, which makes the overall organization more productive because I'm sharing more information with you, then that's a real win-win, and that's where I think Citrix is really trying to position itself, and doing a fairly good job at doing that. Clearly they don't have all of the components yet, but then no one does. This is an ongoing process. >> So, employee experience is table-stakes for any business, as we look at the modern workforce it's highly disrupted. >> (Jack) Yes. >> It's composed of five different generations. >> (Jack) Yes. >> Who have varying expertise with technology. It is also demanding because we're all consumers. >> (Jack) Yes. >> And so we have this expectation, or this, yeah I'd say expectation that I want to be able to go in and have this personalized experience. I don't want to have to become an expert in sales-force because I might need to understand, can I talk to that costumer and ask them to be a reference? How much time are you going to take? But this personalization is becoming more and more critical as we see this influence from the consumer side. >> Right. >> Were some of the things that you heard today from Citrix, what are your thoughts on how their going to be able to improve that more personalized employee experience? >> So people think of personalization, I think sometimes, too narrowly. For some people personalization is, you know, I've got my phone out, and I have the apps that I want on my phone and that's personalization. I think of it a little bit differently. We need to extend personalization. When I'm at work, what I want is not just the apps I want, clearly I want those, right, but also the ability, to get help with those apps as I need it, right. And so where Citrix is going is trying to put intelligence into the system, so that when I'm interacting with back-end solutions or my neighbors, or with teams collaboration, I get the assistance I need to make it easier for me to do that work. It's not just the apps, it's also help with the apps. And if we can do that, that's really what we want. We go, you know, if I have a problem with my laptop I'm going to come to you and say, hey, you did this yesterday what was the result, can you help me for five minutes? Five minutes is never five minutes, it's usually an hour and a half, but still. I'll come to you. Why can't I have an app on my desk that does the same thing? I'm having trouble. Help me. Fix it. Let me know what I'm doing wrong, or let me know how I can do it better. And that's where Citrix is trying to go with the analytics that they've got in place. Which is huge, I think they're underplaying that, because I think that the whole analytic space in making things easier for people to use, because in understanding where my problems are is huge, and that's going to pick up. The notion of having a nice pretty, pretty may not be the right word, but attractive at least, workspace for me to go in that doesn't get frustrated, frustration is a killer in productivity, as everyone knows. There are examples I've heard multiple people tell me now that they go out and hire, especially with millennials, that go out an hire twenty or thirty new employees, and half of them quit within a week because their systems are so bad that they get so frustrated that they're not going to work there. So, the notion of having a modern workspace where I get the applications that I need, I get the assistance I need, because of the analytics of that backend telling the systems what I need, and making it easier for me to do it. And then allowing me to be productive not just for myself, but for the organization, is where we all need to go and I think that Citrix is making some real progress going that way. >> (Keith) Well Jack, we're talking about products that haven't quite been released yet, so I'm trying to get a sense or, worth's the right built versus buy stage, in complexity Citrix should be? You know, I can make it apple pie by going out and picking the apple. >> (Jack laughs) Right. >> And making my own crust or, I can go buy filling, or I can just go buy any mince pie, stick it in the oven and warm it up. Three very different experiences. Three different layers of investment, and outcomes frankly. In this world, I can go hire application developers to write these many apps, to write these customizations, to write these integrations, but that's, I think that's akin to picking the apple and that just simply doesn't scale. But, also while any mince pie is okay every now and again, I want, you know, something of higher quality. Where do you think Citrix is on the kind of range of built versus buy with this intelligent experience? >> So built versus buy is a very interesting phenomenon. And it's interesting because a lot of it has to do with where you think you are right now in the world, right. You know you mention going out and getting developers and building your own, that's all well and good, it doesn't scale, and by the way in today's market you can't find them to begin with. So you often don't even have a choice. So that's number one. Number two is that there are companies out there that still think for competitive advantage that they have to do everything from scratch, like building your pie. Yes, you probably make the best pie in the world, but guess what, sometimes a good enough pie is good enough. Right, and if you're in business sometimes good enough is the only way you survive. It doesn't have to be a hundred percent perfect, ninety percent's okay too. People can deal with that. So that's the other piece. The third piece of it is, from an end-user perspective, right, if end-users are accustom to having an interaction in a certain way and the you go out and get developers that come in and do it, something completely different, which they're apt to do because each will have their own kind of flavor to it, then you just force them to learn one, two, three, four, five different interface interactions I'm not going to do that. I'm going to get frustrated as heck, and I'm going to go call the help desk or I'm going to go get my app and say go do this for me. Both of which are counterproductive to the company and to me. So, it really depends on where you are in the stage of where your company is, I would say built versus buy it's not a one or a zero. There's lots of shades of gray in between, it's also not all or nothing. So, some applications might be built internally, some you may want to buy externally, some you may have a hybrid, and the nice thing about where workspaces is going now is that you plug all of those into the same environment. That's really the ultimate goal, is to make it as easy and transparent for the organization as possible, and also for the user because the user ultimately is the end consumer. And if it's not good for the end consumer, it's not good for the company either. >> (Lisa) So delivering this great game-changing customer experience for this, as we talked about before this distributed modern work force that wants to be able to access mobile apps, Sass apps. >> (Jack) Right. >> Web apps from tablets, PC, phone, desktop. >> (Jack) Your car, your refrigerator >> Exactly. >> (Jack) Anything with a screen on it. >> Oh yeah, the refrigerators. Wherever you are, I think, okay people >> (Jack) Sure. >> We're people, and we are the biggest single security threat there is. >> (Jack laughs) >> So in your perspective, how is what Citrix is talking about balancing security as an essential component of this employee experience? >> So there are a few things, number one is a lot of companies think that if they limit the end user experience they're more secure. The truth of the matter is, yes, I mean if you don't let me get in to an app I can't steal application or information, or lose it somehow. But I also can't get my work done. So there's a balance between security and privacy which many companies don't talk about which is not exactly the same thing, there are two unique things, more and more privacy is becoming as big or bigger an issue than security, but you know we can get at that in a minute. But, the notion of security really relates to what I was talking about earlier which is analytics. If I know what you're suppose to be doing, you're here at Synergy. If someone just got your credentials and logged in from Los Angeles or New York or Chicago or Denver or wherever, I know it's not you. I can shut that thing down very quickly and not have to worry about them stealing information, also if you're, if I know you're not suppose to be in a certain version of SAP, you're not suppose to be doing some ERP system and you're in it, then again the analytics tells me that there's something going on, there's something anomalous going on that I need to investigate. So, having a system that protects because there's a kind of a front end to everything that's going on in the back end, and a realization of what's going on behind that screen gives me a much higher sense of security from a corporate perspective, it's not perfect there is no such thing as perfect security, but it's a lot better than just letting us kind of do our own thing, and loading, you know, semantic or McAfee or whatever on your PC. And that's where the industry ultimately has to go. That becomes part of the new modern workspace. It's not just about more productive it's about more secure. It's about more private. It's about not letting information escape that shouldn't be there to begin with. >> (Keith) So last question on data grabbing. Because we haven't talked about data and data is, you know, probably the most important thing in this topic. The importance of the (unintelligible) and Google announcement. You know, we, the yottabyte, the first time I've heard that term, yottabye of data that data's going to be spread across the world and this, this ideal of centralized compute and us being able to present, compute into data centers, no longer going to work, that we're going to have to, applications are going to be spread across the world. Where do you Citrix advancing that discipline of providing apps where they need to be with these relationships? >> So, it's an interesting phenomenon what we're going through right now, if you look back a couple of decades ago everything was centralized, people were centralized, they all work in one building, computing was centralized it was all in the data center, IT was centralized, it was all, you know, working around the servers. The Cloud is the opposite direction, although I would argue The Cloud isn't new, The Cloud is just time-share in a different environment, for us old people who remember the old IBM time-share computers. But everything is becoming distributed, data is distributed, people are distributed, applications are distributed, networks are distributed, you name it. The key critical factor for companies in keeping their productivity, keeping up the productivity is to make sure that the distributed environment doesn't get in the way of doing work. So you've got things like latency, if it takes me, if I'm in. (crowd cheers) >> They're having a party behind us. >> No, they agree with you! >> (Jack laughs) Yes, apparently. I, you know, if I'm here at Synergy but I have to work back at my offices near Boston, I can't wait five minutes for information to come back and forth, it's like the old days. Latency now has to be within five microseconds or people get frustrated, so that becomes a network issue, applications, same way, if I have to go to a data center, the data isn't local to my server here, it has to go to London, I'm not going to wait three minutes for it to come back like we use to, or ten minutes or an hour and a half. Or come back the next morning. You know, you want to book a flight on an airline, are you going to wait thirty minutes for them to find you a seat? You're going to go to another airline. So the whole notion of distributed means that it's very different now, even though it's distributed, everything is local. And by local, keeping it local means that you have to have latency below a certain point (crowd cheers) so that I don't realize that it's distributed, or I don't care that it's distributed. Yottabyte's of data means that we're going to have data everywhere, accessible all the time, and we're going to produce data like crazy. You know, a typical car, an autonomous car will produce a gigabyte of data every minute. Hundreds every, you know, hour. So, the amount of data is going to be fantastic that we have to deal with. Then, the big question becomes, okay so, I can't personally deal with all this data, it's impossible, I have to have the assistance, the intelligence within the system to go off and make something of that data so that I can actually interact with it in a meaningful fashion. That's where Citrix would like to go, that's where other's would like to go. They can't do it alone, because the problem is just too darn big. But, it will, we will get there, companies will get there eventually, not all of them perhaps, only the ones that are going to be successful long term are going to get there. >> Well, Jack, I wish we had more time to chat with you. This has, I just feel like going dot, dot, dot, to be continued. And I want to say, coincidence, I don't know, there were two rounds of applause when you talked about latency. (Keith laughs) >> There we go. They're just waiting for the bar to open, it's taking too long. >> (Lisa laughs) You think that's what it is? >> (Jack) Properly. >> All right well we'll get you over there, and thank-you again for joining Keith and me this afternoon. >> Thank-you very much. >> (Lisa) Our pleasure. For Keith Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCube live from Citrix Synergy, 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat theme music plays)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE. Covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by Citrix. >> Hello, and welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019 from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host Keith Townsend, the CTO Advisor. Keith, it's so great to see you. >> Lisa, good to be on the show with you again. >> So we're going to geek out the next two days. >> Oh isn't it so good? >> We've been geeking out already just coming from the keynote. This is ... >> Yeah This is, it was really good there was meat, there was announcements, there was news, partnerships. Citrix is a 30 year old company, who's done a lot in the last 12/18 months, to transform. From rebranding, product names, et cetera, lots of launches and announcements. And something that really peaked my interest as a marketer this morning, is hearing the influence of consumerization. Them talking about leveraging Citrix Workspace, and the things that they have done to beef it up which we'll talk about, to deliver a stellar employee experience, to delight the users. And those are words that we hear often in the marketing space, like customer lifetime value, they talked about the employee lifetime value because employee attraction, talent attraction and retention, is critical for every business. Really meaty stuff. What was some of your take on some of the announcements on Workspace? >> So I was really interested because as I'm coming off of SAP SAPPHIRE, where I'm accustomed to hearing terms like customer experience, employee experience, you know, the kind of X-data versus O-data conversation. We heard a lot of that here today. And it's weird coming from an infrastructure company. Citrix in the past I like to put into a box, it's about VDI, application virtualization and networking, and that's pretty much the conversation, it stayed at the IT infrastructure leader perspective. Today we heard a lot that broke out of that, and it was going into the C-Suite and delivering not just technology results, but business results. There was a lot about making transformation real. >> You're right it was about making it real, and if you think at the end of the day, I think I heard a stat the other day, that by 2020, which is literally around the corner, 50% of workers are going to be remote. You and I are great examples of that, we're on the road all the time, we have multiple devices we need to have connectivity that ... to all the apps, SAS apps, mobile apps, web, that allow us to be productive from wherever we are, done in a way that our employers, are confident there is security behind this. But delivering that exceptional employee experience is absolutely business critical. They gave some stats today about the trillions of dollars that are spent, or rather work that's lost, with employees that have so many apps each day that they're working with that really distract from their actual day to day function. >> Yeah I think one of the stats that they gave from an ambitious perspective, they want to give one day back to every employee, 20% of their time, back, I think the stat you referred to some seven trillion dollars of productivity is lost from just hunting and pecking inside of applications. Both of us work remotely, you work from your tablet, I work from a tablet or my phone a lot. Because I just, you know, it's low power to, it lasts the day, but yeah I still need to edit video, I need to sign invoices, I need to create statements that worked. I need to be just as creative on the road as I am at home. It helps me to compete against larger competitors, but more importantly, offer a different customer experience and this is what Citrix was talking about today, was more than just VDIs, about picking up any device asking basic logical questions like what is the status of the latest deal, the big deal, and getting that status from Salesforce without again hunting and pecking, from whatever device you're on. >> Which is critical, especially to have that seamless experience going from desktop to mobile. I think they also said ... there was a lot of stats this morning, which I really geek out on. But that the average person is using seven to 10 apps a day and I loved the video that they showed this morning that really brought that to life. Looking at a senior marketing manager for some enterprise company, who, as she starts her day, there's 10 minutes that goes by which is lie, oh, I forgot I got to log into Workday and request my PTO, oh, one of my employees needs me to approve an expense report, and oh, my boss wants to know about this big deal that's closed. And the time that is spent logging into different applications is really as you mentioned that number seven trillion dollars lost, what they're doing with Citrix, with the intelligent, the workspace intelligence experience is bringing all of that to the end user. So it's much more an activities focus rather than an app focus experience. And I loved what you said that they're very ambitiously aiming to give each person back one day a week, yes please. I will take that. In any organization. >> So I was at a government conference a few weeks ago and they talked very much about this CFO of GSA presented to a crowd of fellow government workers, and they were talking about eliminating waste, they were talking about automating processes, taking the PDF, taking a document and scanning it into a system, and then kicking off a real workflow. And this is done, the industry's been working on this problem for the past 10 years, it's called RPA, Robotic Process Automation. One of Citrix's partners and I guess now competitors in that space just received $560,000,000 in funding, in a single round, to enable artificial intelligence to do this. What I thought was interesting, is that Citrix didn't use the term bots, I think other than one time ... >> Lisa: That's right. ... on the stage. But these are essentially bots, that take redundant processes, automates them, to ultimately add value. I'm anxious to dive in and talk about how Citrix is taking stuff like, they mentioned Mainframe, AS/400 applications, integrating that in Salesforce without having this huge multi-million dollar project to re-write these core business applications and processes. So, you know it's a really exciting time in the industry Citrix has really stepped up in saying, you know what, we won't settle for just having a good business, and this application virtualization and network space, we're going to go all in. >> So one of the things I saw in Twitter this morning, is you and I are both tweeting during the keynote, which we just came from is you talked about PRA right away on Twitter and it's something that you heard instinctively with what they were saying. What are your thoughts as to why RPA as a term wasn't discussed? Did you think it's the type of audience that's here? Is it just not a term that resonates as well as AI and machine learning, which are buzz words at every event we go to? >> And I think a good portion of that is a mix. We're at a conference that's very IT-centric. Citrix is a you know, one of the core IT infrastructure vendors. So when you throw out a term like Robotic Process Automation you constantly, you instantly think, you know, gain of productivity from me or your level maybe, but from an IT infrastructure practitioner perspective, Robotic Processing Automation has a resonance with being equal to eliminating jobs. If, you know, you're going to automate the integration between VMware VSphere and Citrix desktop virtualization and that administration piece, which these solutions definitely can do that, what's left for me to do the work on. If you're going to automate the provisioning of DNS and IP addressing and all these mundane tasks that administrators probably spend 50-60% of their day doing, you know what, that's threatening. To say that you know what, we're going to give you the same tools that we give to make the workspace available today from an application perspective and to tackle that from the concept of this is just extending that ideal and you're a what, your job and what you do today to adding true business value, I think it was smart on their part to kind of avoid the bot conversation. >> Okay, I'm glad that you shared that insight, that makes perfect sense. So, PJ Hough was up there, the Chief Product Officer, who's going to be on tomorrow, talking about what Citrix is doing to distill apps and make this experience much more personalized. And of course he was joined on stage with a big Microsoft announcement today. I think I've been to so many shows this year I've lost count but I think Satya Nadella has either been on stage, he was at Dell Technologies World with Michael Dell and Pat Gelsinger, or in a video like he was today. So the partnership with Microsoft expanding here a little bit of a teaser at Microsoft Ignite a couple of months ago. Gimme your thoughts on what Microsoft, I should say what Citrix is doing to facilitate their users being much more proficient at using Microsoft Team, which I believe the gentleman from Microsoft said there's over 300,000 active users already. Fastest growing product in Microsoft's history. >> So when you talk about collaboration, you can't collaborate without these tools, whether Teams, Slack, whatever, it's become an integral part of how we communicate, how we interact, I know a lot of friends that I have are moving from Slack to Teams, just because of the integration with Office365 they can collaborate around, and I think here on theCUBE we talk about data as being the key. You have to talk about data. One of the things that was prepared to go kind of head on with Citrix today, and tomorrow about, was about data. You know it's great to present applications, but how are you helping to help users collaborate and use and access data and the combination of RPA with the intelligent experi- intelligent, it's going to take us some time to used to this ... >> I keep wanting to say enterprise. >> Yeah enterprise >> Intelligent experience >> Experience product, with Teams, with the Azure announcement, integration with Azure and full support of the Citrix platform inside Azure will just make the employee experience at least potentially seamless, a lot more seamless, I'm super excited about, you can't tell in my voice, I haven't gotten excited about Citrix in a long time. And this is the first time they've had theCUBE at Synergy since 2011, I think it was a great time to reignite that partnership, and this coverage is going to be an interesting two days. >> It is. So we talked about digital workspace, the other two areas of Citrix's business that you touched on a little bit, security and analytics. Let's talk about the security piece first as it relates to Microsoft Teams and Azure. SD-WAN is becoming more and more absolutely critical to ensure that because as people we are the number one threat vector in any organization. Not that we're all bad actors. >> Keith: Right. >> But because we need to get things done, as frictionless or seamless, as you said, as possible, and efficiently as possible. What did you hear today with respect to security, that might really make some of those IT folks take notice? >> Well, we want to work from any device. Like, I want to be able to, ideally if I say, you know what, I want to pick up a new Surface tablet, when I go to Atlanta I don't want to pack my iPad. I want to be able to pick that up, and work. If I go to a kiosk, I want to be able to, even if it's running Windows XP, I want to be able to do my work, I want to be able to do my work from any device. This is a nightmare for system administrators to say how do I control security, while making the experience frictionless? Those two things don't seem to go together. So Citrix, whether it's with this new announcement with Microsoft with Teams, it's traditional applications around SD-WAN, enabling access from remote locations, and Citrix is kind ... this is their bread and butter, offering remote access to applications securely and fast, this is you know, Citrix is starting to formulate a really great end to end story about making applications, data and more importantly, business answers and capability available anywhere securely, so it's a great story. >> It really is. So if you're excited, you already know how excited I am. I think we're going to have a fantastic day today, and tomorrow. We've got a whole bunch of the C-Suite from Citrix on, we're also going to be talking with some partners and customers, and interestingly as a marketer this peaked my interest as well, they have the innovation awards. There are three finalists, we will be talking with all three over the next two days, and this is a customer awards program, that anybody can vote on. So I haven't seen that before, so I'm excited to understand how Citrix is enabling them to have this great employee experience which is more and more critical as the shortages and the gaps are becoming more and more prevalence. And also, how these customers are reacting to just some of the news announced today, with Microsoft, the intelligent enterprise, and how they see their employees, and attracting and retaining top talent as actually really mission critical. So we're going to have fun Keith. >> I agree. >> All right, you're watching Keith Townsend and Lisa Martin live from theCUBE, we are on the show floor at Citrix Synergy 2019 from Atlanta, Georgia. Stick around, Keith and I will be right back with our first guest after a short break. (upbeat electronic music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, it's theCUBE. Covering VeeamOn 2017, brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to New Orleans, everybody, I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host Stu Miniman. There's been a lot of talk of course this week because of WannaCry about ransomware. Edward Haletki is here, he is the principal at TVP Strategy and he and I were having a conversation the other night about ransomware. Edward is a security expert, strategist, been around a long time, Edward, good to see you, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me again. >> Let's riff on this a little bit. You had some really, I thought, thought-provoking ideas about ransomware. I was making the point that look, if you got an air gap, you're good, right, and you said, "Well, no," I said, "Well, what if you have an offsite tape?" And you said, "Well, it's not that simple." >> Edward: It really isn't. >> What's the deal with how to protect myself against ransomware? >> Well, let's just start with a few things. This particular about of ransomware is actually in version 2.0. So the guy found the kill switch for the first version, they already fixed that bug and put it out again. So now it's hitting over 200,000 machines in 99 countries. It's spreading around the world like crazy. The only way that I found to protect yourself is to actually have the ability to do, in a lot of ways, versioned writes. In other words, you keep a version of everything. That's important, but you got to first figure out what's important. But it's more than that. It's an entire architecture around data protection, security and even your business. You need to start with, if you're talking about from the security perspective, you need to start with a way to prevent what's known. If I can prevent what's known from getting to you, like phishing attacks and other attacks, I can prevent you from spreading ransomware into your company. So that's kind of a gate, but if that comes through the gate which it could and it did, you need something able to detect ransomware. And that is a detection that data protection's prime to do. >> But like, okay, explain this. Sort of revisit the conversation we had. If I have an air gap, meaning I've got a separate data center that's disconnected somehow or periodically disconnected, as some vendors have suggested, I'll rotate the connection. And I've got data off site. Let's say I've even got it off site in tape, even though I would ideally not like to recover from tape. Why am I not protected in that scenario? >> It depends on the retention schedule. If the retention schedule's long enough, you'd probably be fine. Most people don't find out there's ransomware until they reboot a machine. >> Dave: And they've rotated through their tapes by then, you're saying. >> They could possibly do that. Some of the smaller businesses, they probably have. Some of the larger businesses that keep yearly and monthly and so forth, and they keep them for seven years probably haven't. But as we move move further and further away from tape and more to the connected universe, even multiple copies of something doesn't necessarily protect you, unless they're immutable copies. >> Well, Phil, Bill Philbin said it today, he said, in a different way, he said, "When we make boo-boos "and we replicate the boo-boos, we replicate really fast," and I tweeted out, I said, well, if there's malicious encryption, that probably replicates really fast. >> Edward: It does. >> Okay, and so. I mean, maybe we should explain the basics here as that's really what the ransomware folks are doing, right, they're encrypting your data and then saying, "Hey, you want the keys back, you got to pay us," is that-- >> Well, and actually, the new breed is, "Hey, pay us and we won't even give you the keys." >> Well, you know, I was watching CNBC the other day when WannaCry hit and one of the experts that they had on, the CNBC analysts asked them, the anchor's asked them, "Well, what do you do?" And they said, "Well, unfortunately, "you just might have to pay the ransom," which was surprising to me because there's no guarantee you're going to get the keys. >> The keys, but it's actually 60 million dollars worth of ransom right now. That's a lot of money. >> Okay, so-- >> I mean, this is, it's 300 dollars a bitcoin to get your key. >> Dave: Right, you're paying in bitcoin, obviously. >> Which is also, that's expensive to get. And a lot of companies just don't have bitcoins lying around, so they have to go out to either mine them or-- >> Dave: Or go to a marketplace. >> Go to marketplace and buy them. >> Especially the people that are still running Windows XP aren't necessarily the people that are bitcoin experts. >> Exactly. >> Okay, so now, what you had suggested to me was that the backup software vendor, we're here at VeeamOn and we're at a Veeam event, backup software vendor actually has data because they're pushing change data to the network periodically. And in theory, they could use analytics to identify anomalous behavior. >> Edward: Exactly. >> In terms of encryption activity that's higher than normal. Explain that. >> Well, there's a couple of ways you can do that. One is that you could look at the CPU utilization, say hey, it's a high CPU utilization, something's going on. Unfortunately, you can't tell if that's a normal action or a non-action, an encryption action, especially with the new chipsets, encryption's very very fast. And the overhead's very very little, could just hide in the noise. When you look at data though, as it gets encrypted, when I do data protection, normally in a virtualized environment or even in a physical environment these days we do something called change block tracking. Or the equivalent thereof in the physical world. And what that does is that, for every block that changes of the file system, I can, that gets sent over to be protected. So as those increase because I'm encrypting more and more and more, you're going to see an increase in the number of blocks that have changed. You could say normally that machine does maybe a kilobyte per backup. And suddenly you're doing a gigabyte. That's a huge difference, that's a big red flag saying hey, something's gone wrong, that's not normal. >> What about this idea of like, honeypot files, like here's where we store all the credit cards file. >> Edward: Oh, we call them canary files. >> Canary files, great. >> And this is, canary files are another way you can detect things. If you have a file server, you should just put a canary file out there, nice juicy name, you know, CEO's whatever, something like that, a spreadsheet, it could be an expense report that you know is ancient. It doesn't make any difference. What that canary file is used for is you just periodically query the file, like, can I read you? It doesn't have to be a big file, it just means I can read you, 'cause it's going to encrypt the whole thing. Once I can't read it anymore, you know, you've been hit by ransomware usually. >> Right, because there's no reason you would've encrypted that file. >> Or even touched it, no one should be touching it. >> Dave: Right, some zombie file. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Now, for a company like Veeam to put a solution, I mean, I'm making the case that there should be specific solutions in the marketplace for ransomware. >> Edward: Oh, absolutely. >> Not just a sort of hand waving and buy our product because of ransomware, it should be a specific solution geared towards solving the problem. What does that solution look like, how would a company like Veeam, who would the partners be that they would put that together, what types of companies would they need, what type of capabilities would be required? >> Well, for Veeam, I think you need four general capabilities. They have one of them, that's the recovery stage. They have instant, the capability to do instant recoveries. That is a must, so if you have ransomware, to recover the business, you just do an instant recovery of a known good source. The other one is on the front end, you really need the prevention. In other words, I'm going to prevent people from doing fishing or I'm going to prevent attacks coming in with that type of payload. So if it's an encrypted payload, don't let it through. Those are possible. The middle of it is the detection, and then what we call legal hold. In other words, I want to say, okay, I detected the possibility of ransomware. And then I want to mark this recover point, the one that I'm currently backing up, as potential for ransomware so the one before that is the one I say, "Hey, don't delete that one "until I've inspected it," and that's the one you may do the instant recovery off of. >> Okay, so prevention, I mean, that's just good practice. But let's assume for a second-- >> That's a security company has those capabilities, some of them do a really good job at that, but even with something like WannaCry, you can't prevent someone from clicking on a link. >> Right, so assume for a second that I didn't prevent it. So I should do that as best practice, but assume I didn't prevent it, so I got to have detection. >> Edward: Absolutely. >> They've penetrated, now I'm using what, analytics to look for anomalous behavior? >> I'm either using a canary file or I'm using analytics at the data protection layer. I could even use analytics at the storage layer to say, "Hey, there's a lot of changes happening," that's going to go down the storage path and I'm going to be able to see it there as well. >> Okay, and then legal hold, in 2006 when the federal rules of civil procedure changed and they said electronic documents are now admissible. Most large companies and certainly large companies in regulated industries began to implement techniques to do legal holds, particularly around email archiving, which was just one piece of the problem. That's a complicated problem. >> It is, but it's really legal hold like. It's the concepts of legal hold, but applied specifically to data protection. In other words, you want to say the recover point that I'm currently writing to could be bad. We don't know, so mark the recover point previous to that as don't delete. Don't mark the one you're just doing, it's the one previous to that. 'Cause what could happen is you may not do the instant restore 'cause they're fine. But three days later when that one's going to roll off, it rolls off and it may go away. And if it goes away, you're sunk. >> Okay, and then fast recovery, which is the capability that you said Veeam has, obviously. >> Edward: I would say some recovery, yeah. >> Am I to infer that an air gap is not required? >> Well, when you start doing the... It is and isn't. If you have a good architecture, that architecture's going to include things like going to an immutable storage source. So I'm going to store my backups on an immutable source or target. And that immutable target, the best one today is really an object store where it has versioned rights. Every version that gets written is immutable. So as you do data protection, you write to a new version a full image, so it's a synthetic full image that gets put into that blob of storage. So I have my target for, my Veeam target, let's say, and then Veeam would replicated that or do something to put that on this object store for versioned writes. Then what happens is I can either restore from the Veeam target, but let's say that gets corrupted, now I can go back to the object store as the ultimate source saying, "Hey, I'll just go back "to the immutable versions." >> Okay, when I hear immutability, I often think of blockchain. Can blockchain, does it fit in here in the future, can it help solve problems like this? >> Yes and no, blockchain is actually very old. We've been doing blockchain encryption for ages. EBC was an electronic blockchain for encryption. I'm not sure it's actually going to solve that problem. But immutable is basically non-writable, that's what I'm talking about, you can't change it once it's written. And if you can protect that using blockchain and the metadata and all that, that's fine. But I don't think that's necessary. >> It's like containers too. Everything's been around forever. (laughs) >> It has been. I mean, when you think about, but this particular one is really taking advantage of what object stores have to offer today. And there's several companies that have that capability and it adds a nice layer, we think it's archive, but it's not, to me it would be the intermediary. It's the pre-archive, it's kind of like, okay, put it there, and then I may archive that off on a retention schedule. >> Excellent, Edward, great analysis, thank you very much, appreciate that, so Stu, let me bring you into the conversation, put a bow on VeeamOn 2017, what are you takeaways? >> So Dave, we go to a lot of shows and love when you have a community that's excited. That term love is not one that you hear at many shows, I mean, I'm sure Edward probably-- >> Edward: I would agree. >> I love VMware bumper stickers that people have. Technology is, you know, we're down in the weeds here. I mean, here's people that are passionate about availability and backup. The thing that I was looking for coming on to this show, Dave, is what they addressed, you know, day one and the main keynote. Which is the big wave of virtualization has kind of gone past, you know, the peak of where it is. And how can they look at that next generation, can they hop on the waves? The things that I really liked, we got to talk to a lot of customers, Dave, customers, passionate, not only the enterprise where they've been getting into, but talked to a number of service providers including some interviews that we did where they like what they're doing, they keep building. Public cloud and where Veeam fits, I think it's early days. Want to see how that develops, want to see how customers use it, we did talk to one customer that was really excited about where that'll fit in. I like that Veeam has, you know, clear eyes as to where their future is and they're embracing that change. I always hear, sometimes you hear that term embrace and you're like, yeah yeah yeah, sure, you're kind of giving it lip service, but are you going to be able to move forward on that new trend, because as we talked, Dave, in a couple of segments here during our two days of interviews, usually when there's a shift in the landscape, the players change, the previous incumbent will not be the leader going forward. And Veeam has a strong team, they've put a lot of new people in place, and they know where the battles will be fought. Early days in some of this next wave, but it was exciting to be here and happy to share it with you. >> Yeah, I mean, I learned a lot about Veeam. Most of my interaction with the company have been either informal or kick in the tires, v tugs and v mugs where you've seen them for years. I came in knowing that the press releases talked about 600 million dollars in bookings, ambitions to become a billion dollar company. Very rapid growth rate, 45,000 partners. So that was quite interesting, to see that in action. This company's got real big ambitions, this idea of being sort of the availability expert for whatever use case you want, whether it's in the cloud or going to the cloud or coming from the cloud or between clouds, is very ambitious. I think that's a wide open space. I suspect it's a big market, although it's really emerging, and I suspect all the individual cloud vendors are going to be going, trying to protect their little parts of the world, companies like VMware are going to want to try to own that inter-clouding space and other startups are trying to get in there. It's a sort of jump ball in my view there, but I like the ambition. It was interesting to hear Peter McKay talk about Veeam in the context of software companies that are growing and growing fast, getting to 800 million which they're not there yet, the likes of Workday and Salesforce and ServiceNow. Of course, those are all public companies and Veeam is a private company, so it can write its own narrative. >> They've got enough revenue, Dave, that they could be public. There've been plenty of companies that have IPOed with much less revenue. I'm shocked you haven't mentioned it, Dave, profitability. I mean, in today's day and age, a company of the size that they are, and they're still growing at a rapid pace and they are profitable. So you know, kudos there. >> Yeah, and then the other thing that struck me was the pace of product announcements, I always look for that. At a lot of the shows that we go to, you hear a lot of hand waving about digital transformation, but you don't see a lot of products coming out. So there was some excitement around the products, so that's a good sign that they can turn strategy into R&D into products that sell that the partners are taking and uptaking. So it was a good sort of first experience certainly for me at VeeamOn and theCUBE, and Stu, always a pleasure working with you, we got, excuse me, get to take a break. The boys get to go home after 20 days on the road, and then, you know, we're cranking up again. We got shows every single week in June, multiple shows, US, international, so to to siliconangle.tv, check that out, check out our schedule. Go to siliconangle.com for all the news, wikibon.com is cranking some stuff out as well. Edward, thanks for sitting in. >> Oh, my pleasure. I do have one thing to interject, I've actually looked at Veeam from a totally different perspective. I've been watching them and monitoring them for about 10 years. From their technology perspective. Actually over 10 years, I started with them. So I went through the virtualization, backup wars with them and all the other companies. Their rate of innovation, their rate of change has actually been far greater than many other data protection companies. It's not just their new releases, it's their whole, they've gone through several shifts in messaging. And several shifts in what their products do. And it's been fascinating to watch. >> Well, and that's a really good point, because a lot of the traditional backup software companies are living on maintenance. And it seems like Veeam is trying to, as Pat Gelsinger says, catch the wave and not be left in the dust as driftwood. All right, we're going to leave it there, thanks for watching, everybody. We will see you next time, and take care. (upbeat electronic music)