>> live from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco. We continue our coverage here. Live on the Cube. 10th year John of covering Veum World This is 29 teens version John for John Wall's Got to have inside the Moscone Center. We're joined now by Varun Chabrol It was the vice president of marketing at Delhi M. C. Good to see you today. >> Thanks for having me. >> How's your week been? So far? >> It's been amazing. How can you don't get excited? All the innovation we're seeing this week >> we'll hear about some big announcements. Do you guys have made? And Moon Young Man Azzedine, who is the vice president of product marketing that for cloud security and works based solutions at Veum wear when you're good to see you. >> Good to see you again. You, By >> the way, you might be the busiest guy here. Yesterday, when you came into the set, you were coming in. Just spoken to 1300 people in a standing room only session You coming out? 500 folks, How many sessions have you done? The seven. So >> you don't count the the one on one with the analyst. And, uh, you know, the customers and partners and press. And tomorrow actually host ah 140 press media analyst on campus in Palo Alto from Asia Pacific because they float all the way from Asia >> plus 140. Yeah, it's a piece of cake. >> Yeah, hose them from 10 to 4. So, I mean, >> you're always smiling >> knowing that this is a pretty wide audience to whom you've been speaking. But just generally, what are you if there's a common thread at all about the kinds of questions that people are coming to you with, or or the concerns or maybe just the things they want to talk about being inspired. But what they're hearing here at the show, >> Okay. Now, according to two aspects of it, one obviously from analysts themselves, you know, they are actually have been very complimentary about the way we've taken our approach. I'm not sure if you could have paid attention. In the last couple of years, we've been talking especially the cloud side, the narrative, to be very much about use cases, solving problems. You know the key? No, we talked about hate my grade modernize. It wasn't about Hey, I've got the next big product here with all these features and capabilities. You do this and that. So we're gonna shifted out narrative. And it was very, you know, the the analyst across the boat. You know, we've been seeing an appreciative of the fact that you actually changing a narrative to be re compelling and we're gonna reflected. And we have some things here like Cloud City, where it's not a standard demo boot. It's a it's ah, Customers walk in and they touch and feel and see which we did it, Adele technology will, too. It's like, What's your business? Probably going through these applications. I'm sitting. I don't know if I should be modernizing them or should be migrating into Amazon. A ridge or so. So you know that narrative the analysts are appreciative off, and that reflects into the customer conversations I've been having in the briefings, like one on one with customers. They're really kind of lost us. D'oh! Hey, I've I'm working in this environment. There's a lot of pressure for me. Thio modernize my applications or go adopt my cloud. First strategy is where do I start? Where do I go? It's like, you know, there's a big pressure, so they just want clarity. I think in the end, everything we're gonna we're doing in our study that comes out obviously the buzzword for this weird world. It stanza, right? And, you know, >> we've won the product announcements was >> actually Brandon can Oh, yeah. Branding announcement, to be honest is yeah, because we're trying to bring together, as you know, in Tansy has landed in Bill Run Manage billed as in you know how our intent to acquire Pivotal Already acquired Big Tommy. How all our different acquisitions with different brand names are coming together to establish our bills portfolio again. The sphere. Everybody knows the sphere Project Pacific P ks. All of those create a good run time, environment and manageability like Adi manage with assets from ve Franta gain morbid Nami and you know it. So this multiple brands that are coming into this package off Iran. So we had a creative tan Xue too, you know, put forward statement together that yes is going to be 78 different brands coming into this, but going forward to stand. >> So so that's a great strategy on De Liam Seaside on Del Technology. Michael Dell was in here and I asked him. I said he could have been number one in everything you could. Let's talk about I'm number one in servers again. You kind of get on HP, little baby. But those air peace parts now. So we've got the cloud game. It's bringing despair it at parts together kind and making it coherent from a positioning standpoint and understandable and deployable. So you guys are going down there. That's your cloud strategy. Take a minute to explain that. >> Yeah, absolutely, John. So So what? What we've been doing. We announced this at Del Technologies will this year. But, you know, in the cloud infrastructure space, we're working very closely with the anywhere too tightly integrate our hardware solutions with their their cloud software. And we think that by combining these two in a tightly integrated joined engineer, jointly engineered solutions coupled with the service, is that you know, both of'em were and l e m c bring the customers we think we have. We're giving customers are very consistent experience both with their own premises, infrastructure with public cloud as well as with the edge cloud. And that's really what we're trying to do. That's what we've been building upon and uniting the announcements this week. You know, just just hopefully show customers that the sky's the limit, whether it's not just your infrastructure management. Also app development. Managing your APS both traditional and and cloud native. It's all here for And >> what's the big takeaway free from your standpoint that you'd like people to know about what's going on? Adele the emcee for the VM. Where relation. What's the big top item? >> Yeah, there's there's there's just so much good Doctor Wait forever drank the town about. If someone rises >> way, only have two hours >> time work. The most important thing that people should should know about it, >> you know, both deli M. C and V. M. R. I think, are very, very customer driven companies that we respond to customer feedback and we try to respond to them very fast. That's been true to our respective lifetimes and what we've done in the so that I think there's two broad areas of collaboration. One is in the cloud space, which is all about, you know, making sure that the the innovation that GM is bringing the market, we're providing that in a toy tightly integrated infrastructure solution. Right. So we announced from a deli in seaside support for Vienna, where p ks being deployed automatically on Vieques trail using VCF return. Our customers can you know, a lot of teams were telling us we have our developers and turning developers banging slash knocking on the door, saying we need to build a cloud. Native applications. You need to give us an environment that we can use. And you know, if if all righty, if these IittIe teams don't turn around and give them something relatively quickly Well, guess what? The developers will go somewhere else, right? Yeah, exactly. So And if you look at the kubernetes environment today, if you really look look at what the work that's required to set up kubernetes and ready infrastructure. So a lot of scripting a lot of manual, you know, work command line interface is testing stuff. And what what? V m r p k s does. And you know what times you will do as well is really makes it easy when we've taken that with the magic of the American Foundation sitting on top of the exhale to make it super easy for our customers to be able to deploy kubernetes ready infrastructure and then have it be ready for scale, right? And then the important thing here also is this is the same infrastructure of the expelling bcf that our customers are using for traditional applications as well, right? Trying to reduce that complexity. Give them the one platform. So this cloud, you know, we had we were doing the same integration on just with R A C I platform, but also with our best to breach storage or we're not working with the C f. And then we're also making investments on data protection like it's so important to be able to manage your data in this multi cloud world. We have applications sitting everywhere, data. We all know that it is a crown jewel. So >> it's really a king validating from the Vienna a point of view. How that works right is is about applications is about the infrastructure, and it's about the operation and it really kind of together as we talk about Han Xue p. K s is giving our customers that Chuy's off. You pick Cuban eighties, you know, environments, application choice. >> Um, >> it took us. Actually, we didn't We didn't arrive it in that order. Wait. Did it. In the outer off Infrastructure Plot Foundation is a critical piece of the joint engineering. But being aware and the Della Bella Technologies is really from aviary perspective. It took Locke Foundation, and that's the stack that runs in every public cloud. So, you know AWS as your G C P 4000 plus, you know, cloud provider partners. But Flat Foundation is a platform that was validated on. They'll take hardware and you know, that's the package. But now, as you see, we're lighting that it's same infrastructure up for traditional and culminated applications. >> I think the app sides important to point out, because if you could ve m wears heritage, you look at Dale's heritage. You had abs that ran on PCs absent, ran on servers, client server. And if you look at the fertilization that wasn't under the covers, apt an innovation that didn't require code changes. So that's the DNA that you guys have. Now, when you think about like cloud to point out which we've been riffing on that concept that's basically enterprise cloud mean donut. Hybrid cloud applications are gonna drive. The value on our premises is that they're going to be customer requirements that traditionally wouldn't have fit in the product. Marketing, management, featureless customs. Gonna define what they want. They'll build it, and then they'll dictate to the infrastructure to make it run. What? We can't do that yet. It'll be, Yes, we cannot be enabled to be dynamics. This is a a new cloud. 2.0, feature. This changes the complete game on suppliers >> completely agree. You know to your point, because, you know, you bring it thio back toward civilization. We've been going higher up the stack on So Day zero virtualization infrastructure will virtual eyes. So the line off abstraction has just been climbing from hardware retort realization next to like, you know, Pat platform of the service, and you kind of were working up our way down infrastructure. Now that base infrastructure platform looks like plants. Right? >> And there were times out a little bit over here. On the upside, you meet in the middle of >> it in the middle >> that is Hello, >> absolutely so ap and at middle wears shrinking down this way. Infrastructures. You know that the cloud incriminating stride in the middle to say, Well, that's a bit of, you know, infrastructure is a Kodak and pull. He's a bit of a AP AP eyes I can can I draw from And that's kind of nice future middleware. But our dad, I >> mean, I think applications air in charge, right? I mean, that's not sure That's the dynamic. That's the way it should be. But it never was that way before is basically the infrastructure was your gating factor. The network exact cloud two points Network security data. Yes, Dev Ops. A true Dev Ops Devane, Ops, Infrastructures Code. >> The only point I wanted to add is the reason the emphasis on abscess change acts in the past. Used to be a business support system after today is business. >> Yeah, I mean, it's >> really or you're you're gonna live or die based on the digital services you provide your customers. The other thing I was going to say about cloud 2.0, is that it's also becoming increasingly clear when we Dr customers that, um, customers are realizing Cloud is not a place right. There was this kind of cloud. One point it was okay. Big honking data centers, hyper skaters will be found now is that customers have gone through that process of and there's a lot more maturity in terms of understanding. What is good, better running on premises. What is what's better running in public Cloud? There's a place for both of them and that, um, and the cloud is actually the automation, the service delivery. It's Maurin operation and a way of being almost than a place. >> And what is it? Well, what does it do for you all? Then, in terms of challenge, especially at your teams, because you talk about all this customization, you're allowing the application to almost drive. You know, you're changing places in terms of who's the power of the relationship? Yes. Oh, me, yeah, How what? What does that do for you? Oh, in terms of how you approach that, how you change of mindset and how you change what you deliver? >> I think John, it's the way I think about it is that both daily emcee in Vienna, or any technology provider that's worth their salt is in the business of building platforms. Right? And platforms are essentially extensible. They're really they really provide a foundation that other people can innovate on top of it. And that's how I think you handled the customers issue. If one thing I think we can all agree on is that I t has always taught us there's no one size fits. All right? Right. So I think providing choice along every single dimension is super important for our >> customers. Yeah, I think that platform thing is a huge point. And I was gonna ask that question before John got jumped in because one of the things that you just brought up was platform is you guys have to build an enabling platform. One as suppliers. Okay, The successful cloud to point out cos are ones that are innovating in weird areas. Monitoring, for instance, they who will have thought that monitoring now observe ability would be such a massive, lucrative sector four. I pose M and A Why? Because it's data. It's instrumentation. This is operating system kind of thinking here is like network. So thinking like a platform on the supplier size one, the customers got to start thinking like a platform because their stakeholders air their internal developers or a P I shipping to suppliers. This is new for enterprises. This is news requires full hybrid capability. This requires date at the center of the value proposition. >> That's again the biggest value is business and I tr coming together on the area of applications and data. Yeah, that's starting up giving because the successful businesses are the ones who leveraged. Those guys have failed in the future, or the ones who don't pay attention to how critical applications are to the business logic and how critical data is to be able to mine and get the behavioral analytics to get ahead. And >> now the challenge in all this. But I'm learning and covering some of the public sector activity from the C I. A contract Jedi with Amazon to we had Raytheon Her here earlier is another customer example with another client is that procurement? And how they do business is not just a technical thing. There's like all this old legacy, things like, How do you procure technology, who you hire her and we hire developers? We build our own stack, so there's a lot of things going on. >> Yes, and you know, it's really interesting on the even on the procurement front, how our customers experience with Cloud has changed expectations, right, And that's really what we're doing with the McLaren DMC is what customers told us is, Hey, I love the agility of the cloud portal based access. Easy procurement. I love just being able to click a button and not have to navigate all this complexity. I need that for my own premises infrastructure. Imagine FRA structure. And that's, you know, in an example, while all of these dynamics are really all converging, >> well, if you can create abstraction, layer on a level of complexity and make things easy, simple and affordable, that's good business. Model >> one of our customers without taking the name right. The massive retailer you know they're spinning up, um, the retail outlets like crazy. They measure success in This was one truck roll, so they wanna have the entire infrastructure come into stand up one of the retail outlets in one truck roll. When everything comes in one button push that everything gets in a provision and up together. >> So that means I gotta have full software instrumentation automation Got intelligence. This is kind of where cloud 2.0, will lead us all >> likely. And that's expectation now that they go so fast and deploying this one Truck roll Hardware's there. Switch it on from the cloud it stood up and they're in operation 24 hours. >> Well, guys, we're going to get you on our power panels in our Palace of studio on this topic cloudy. But it's gonna be very aggressive and controversial topic because it's going to challenge the status quo. And that's really what this we're talking about >> that's in our DNA. >> And the good news is that that's more time with John. >> So as we before, we say so long, we've talked about clients. We talked about the folks you bet here. We talked about the presentation on this thing and what they're all getting out of it. What are you getting out of this? I mean, what are your takeaways? As you had back to your respective work orders, you get first. Okay? >> I think for me the biggest takeaway is just how incredibly vibrant via more user communities. I mean, it is unlike anything else I've seen before and now with the things like Project Pacific. I just feel like it's It's an opportunity for this community to be able to take the skills they have right now and actually go into this brave new world of containers with so much help forces having to do this all by yourself. Which means it's gonna be, you know, if you think about how largest community is, think about how much innovation this will spore in the container space and because of that in the application space and then because of that in business is I mean, this is a It just feels like a tipping point for me >> to me. Sure, I got high fives from every tech geek, you know, when we came out, you know, I also on our technical advisory boats for the company that these are the hot core geeks who were followed and you know us to the, you know, these were the fans and they were like, you know, they always kind of like if you walk out of them and you talk to them and they, uh how did it work? Because they my bar, you have a very high bar. They cut through all your marketing messaging. They go right to the hay. Is there meet in this And the high fives? I got the hajj. I got out. This is like, guys, you're nailing it. That's enough to tell me that a This is, like, 10 years ago. Yeah, that body. It's like you're so busy. I'm still smiling because the energy is I >> can't give you a hug. Give me a high five. Right. Good work, gentlemen. Thanks for the time. Always, he's still smiling to >> get you to a step. >> Good deal. Thanks for being with us. Thank you. Live on the Cube. You're watching our coverage in world 2019. Where? San Francisco. Back with more. Right after this.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by the M wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. I'm Stew Minuteman here with John Troyer. We're have three days, Walter Wall coverage here at VM World 2019 with lobbying Mosconi North and happy to welcome to the program. To my right is Tom Burns, who is the senior vice president general manager of networking and Solutions at Delhi Emcee and sitting to his right. Another Tom. We have Tom Gillis, who's the S V p and general manager of networking of Security inside VM wear. So I'm super excited. Go back to my roots of networking. Tom and Tom thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having us. Thanks for All >> right. So, you know, Tom, you and I have talked for years now about you know, it was not just s t n, but you know, the changes in the environment. Of course, you know, networking and compute, you know, smashing together and where the role of software in this whole environment has changed. So, you know, let's start, you know, there's some news. Let's get that cover the hard news first. VM Where has the networking pieces? Dell has some software networking pieces also, and there's some more co mingling of those. So maybe walk us through that. >> Absolutely. I think the story this week is about the collaboration that's happening between Tom's team and my team in kind of innovating and disrupting in the traditional networking world. You know, Tom Sad NSX around micro segmentation network virtualization lot going on with analytics and capability to really see what's going on. The network from Cord Out EJ to cloud the acquisition of RV, which is outstanding. Other things that are going on in Vienna, where deli emcee disrupting around the segregation of hardware and software, giving customers that capability to run the nasty need for the connective ity they need, depending upon where the network is sitting. So this week we got two announcements. One is we've got worldwide shipment of the Delhi M CST Land solutions powered by being more great, you know better than none. Software combined with better than none. Hardware coming from del you see, on a global basis worldwide, you know, secure supply chain plus professional service worldwide is a parameter there, right? >> And Tom, maybe bring us in. You know, we'd watch Fellow Cloud before the acquisition esti weigh on. You know, there's a lot of solutions that fit in a couple of different markets. It's not a homogeneous market there. Maybe give us just kind of the camp point from Avella Clubs. Esty Esty. >> Wind is a white Hart market on because it has the classic combination a better, faster, cheaper. It delivers a better end user experience. It is so easy to deploy this and it saves money, NPLs, circuits and back hauling traffic those that was, ah, 19 nineties idea. It was a good idea back then, but it's time for a different approach. >> And just when I've talked to some customers and talk to them about their multi cloud environment, SD Wind, one of those enabling technologies that you know they will bring up to a mad allowed them to actually do that. >> It was it was the movement really >> office 3 65 and sass applications that drove the best human revolution and that back hauling all this traffic to headquarters and then going out to office for 65 when a user might be in, You know, Des Moines, that doesn't make any sense. And so so with us, the win we intelligently route the traffic where it needs to go delivers a better end user experience, and it saves a bunch of money. It's not hard to imagine that cheap broadband links are on order of magnitude lower than these dedicated mpls circuits. And the interesting math is that you could take two or three low cost links and deliver a better experience than with a single dedicated circuit. >> I'm kind of interested in the balance between hardware and software, right? The family trees of networking and compute kind of were different because if they had specialized needs in silicon, so where are we now? It's 2019. Where are we now? With with line speeds and X 86 then the hardware story. >> I think it'll let Tom join the discussion around speeds and feeds is not dead, but it should be dying to get a quick right. You know, it's around virtual network functions and everything really moving to the software layer. Sitting on top of commoditized X 86 based you know, hardware and the combination of these two factors help our customers a lot more with flexibility, agility, time to deploy, return on investment, all these types of things. But I mean, that's my view is a recurring theme you're gonna hear. Is that in networking? And think you're alluding to this You needed these dedicated kind of magical black boxes that had custom hardware in order to do some pretty basic processing. Whether it be switching, routing, advanced security, you had to run things like, you know, hardware. Regular expression, matching et cetera was about three years ago that Intel introduced a technology called D P D. K, which is an acceleration that allowed VM wear to deliver in software on a single CPU. You know, we could push traffic at line rates, and so so or, you know, faster than one rates. And so that was sort of like there wasn't the champagne didn't go off in the, you know, the bald in drop in Times Square. But it's a really important milestone because all of a sudden it doesn't make any sense to build these dedicated black boxes with custom hardware. Now, general purpose hardware, when you have a global supply chain and logistics partner like Dell, coupled with distributed software, can not only replace these network functions, but we can do things completely differently. And that's really you know, we're just beginning this journey because it's only recently that we've been able to do that. But I think you're gonna see a lot more that in the future. >> So we talked about SD win. Uh, there was a second announcement >> that goes back into the court. You know, the creation of a fabric inside of the data center is still a bit difficult. I mean, I've heard quotes saying It's something like 120 lines of cli, you know, per switch. So let's say 4 to 6 Leafs pitches, switches and two spine switches could take days to set up a fabric. What we've announced is the smart Fabric Director, which is a joint collaboration and development between Veum Wear and Delhi emcee that creates this capability to tightly integrate NSX envy Center into the deli emcee power switch, family of data center switches, really eliminating several cases and in fact, setting up that same fabric in less than two minutes. And we're really happy about not just the initial release. But Tom and I have a lot of plans for this particular product and in the road map for, you know, quarters and years to come about really simplifying again, the network automating it. And then, really, our version of intent based networking is the networking operating the way you configured it, you know, when you set it up and I think not just not just on day one, but two, you know and a N and you know you hit the nail on the head. Networking has changed, is no longer about speeds and feeds. It's about availability and simplicity. And so, you know, Del and GM, where I think are uniquely positions to deliver a level of automation where this stuff just works, right? I don't need to go and configure these magic boxes individually. I want to just right, you know, a line of code where my infrastructure is built into the C I. C. D pipeline. And then when I deploy workload, it just works. I don't need an army of people to go figure that out right, and and I think that's the power of what we're working together to unleash. >> So when something technology comes up like like SD win. Sometimes there's a lot of confusion in the marketplace. Vendors going out one size fits all. This will do everything Course. Where are we in the development of SD win and what is the solution? Who should be looking at taking a look at the solution now? >> SD win market, as I said, is growing depend on whose estimate you look at between 50 and 100% a year. And the reason is better, faster, cheaper. Right? So everyone has figured out, you know, like maybe it's timeto think differently about about architecture and save some money. Eso we just announced it on the PM or side, an important milestone. We have more than 13,000 network virtualization customers that includes our data center as well as yesterday, and we don't report them separately. But 13,000 is, you know, that's almost double where it was a year ago. So significant customer growth we also announced were deployed together with our partner from Del 130,000 branches around the world. So by many metrics, I think of'em, where is the number one vendor in this space to your point it is a crowded, noisy space. Everybody's throwing their hat in the Rangel. >> We do it too. >> But I think the thing that is driving the adoption and the sales of our product is that when you put this thing in, it fundamentally changes the experience for the end user. There's not a lot of networking products that do that. Like I meet customers like this thing is magic. You plug it in and all this and streaming just works, you know, like Google hangouts or Web X is like they just work and they worked seamlessly all the time that there's something there that I think it's still unique to the PM or product, and I think it's gonna continue to drive sales in the future. So I think the other strong differentiation when it comes to Del Technologies bm where in Delhi emcee combined is we have this vision around the cloud. You know, EJ core cloud and you know this hybrid multi cloud approach. And obviously SD Ram plays a critical part as one of the stepping stones as relates toe, you know, creating the environment for this multi cloud environment. So, you know, fantastic market opportunity huge growth. As Tom said, markets probably doubling in size each year. I don't know what the damn numbers are. I hate to quote, but you know, we really feel is, though now having this product in this capability inside a deli emcee, again combining our two assets, it could be the next VX rail. We're really good way. Believe the esteem and it's gonna be a gigantic market. And I think that what's interesting about our partnership is that we can reach different segments of the market in a V M, where we tend to focus on the very high end, large enterprise customers. Technically very sophisticated, delicate, rich customers we don't even know we don't even talk to, And a product is simple enough that it works in all segments. We win the very, very biggest, and we win these. You know, smaller accounts where the simplicity of a one quick deployment really really matters. >> Tom. One of the things that excited me a year ago at this show was the networking vision for a multi cloud world reminded to be of nice syrup. React. You know, when we look at networking today, most remote network admin a lot of the network they need to manage. They don't touch the gear. They don't know where it lives, but they're still responsible. Keep it up and running. And if something goes wrong, it's there. It is the update as to where we stand with that where your >> customers are asking the question, right? So our mantra is infrastructure is code, and so no one should ever have to log in with switch. No one should have to look into a Q. And you know, we should have to be like trying to move packets from here. They're just It's very, very difficult. I'm not really feasible. And so So as networking becomes software and those general purpose processors I talk about are giving us the ability to to think about not just a configuration of the network but the operation of the network in ways that were never before possible. So, for example, we announce that the show today with our monitoring product ve realise network in sight. We call it Bernie, not always such clever with the names that were really good at writing code, Vernon gives us the ability to measure application response time from the data center all the way out to the edge. So a single pane of glass we can show you. Oh, here's where it's broken whether it's in the network, whether it's in the server, whether it's the database, that's that's not responding. And we do this all without agents, right? So it's like when the infrastructure gets smart enough to be able to provide that inside, it changes the way the customer operates on. That translates into real savings and real adoption. And that's what's driving all of this momentum, right? That 7 500 to more than 13,000 customers, something has to be behind that. I think it's It's the simplicity of automation. >> CLI has come up a couple times here, and so that's kind of a dirty word. Maybe even these days, it kind of depends on who you're talking with, I think Veum Way. Rendell both spent a lot of time and effort educating the networking engineering market and also educating the kind of data center you know, the rest of the data center crew about, you know, about each other's worlds. Where again, where are we at now? It sounds like with director on with the innocent. The NSX whole stack? Yes. Uh, the role is changing of a network engineer. But again, where are we in that? In that evolution? >> I think you know, we're early on, but it's moving quite rapidly. I think the traditional network in engineer and networking admin is gonna need to evolve. You know more to this, Dev Ops. How do I bring applications? How do I manage the infrastructure? More like a platform. I mean, Tom and I truly believe that the difference between cute and network infrastructure is really going to start to dissolve over time. And why shouldn't it? I mean, based upon what's happening with the commoditization and speeds of the CPU versus the MP use coming from Mersin silicon, it's really beginning to blur. So I think, you >> know, we're in the early >> stages. I mean, certainly from a deli, see perspective. We still, at times, you know, have those discussions and challenges with traditional networking people. But let's face it, they have a tough job. When something's not working, the network administrator usually gets blamed, And so I think it's a journey, uh, and things such as the del Technology Cloud Open networking, NSX, and now SD when it will continue to drive that. And I think we're going to see a rapid change in networking over the next 12 18 to 24 months. I talked to a number of customers that has said, You know, this journey that Tom was talking about is this is a challenge because the skill set is different. My developers need to learn software, and so what? We're working with the M where is trying t o make that software easier and easier to use it actually approach like English language. So latest versions of NSX have these very simple, declarative AP eyes that you can say, Oh, server A talk to server be but not server see, Click Don Deploy. And now, in our partnership with L, we can take that Paulson push it right down into the metal, right down into the silicon. And so so. Simplification and automation are the name of the game, but it is definitely a fundamental change in the skill set necessary to do Networking. Networking is becoming more like software as opposed to, you know, speeds and feeds and packet sniffers and more the old traditional approaches. >> Tom, I don't want to give you the final word as to Ah, you know what people should be taken away from Dell in and Veum wear in the networking space. Well, >> I think across deli emcee and in being work, there's a great amount of collaboration, whether it's the Del Technology Cloud with of'em were really taking the leadership from from that perspective with this multi hybrid cloud. But in the area of networking, you know, Trudeau. Five years ago, when we announced the desegregation of hardware and software, I am in this to disrupt a networking business and to make networking very different tomorrow and in the future than it has been in the past for our customers around. He's deployment, automation and management, and I think that's a shared vision with Tom and his team and the rest of BM, where >> Tom Gillis, Tom Burns, thank you so much faster. Having eight, we'll be back with more coverage here from VM 2019 for John Troyer on stew. Minutemen as always. Thanks for watching the Cube