>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi. Lisa Martin for the Cube, Live at Cisco Definite. Create twenty nineteen. This is Day two of our coverage here. We're excited to welcome Taylor Barnett, a speaker tech talk speaker for this event. Lead community engineer at Stoplight Taylor. It's great to have you on the Cube. I'm glad to be here. So first, inform us before we talk about your tech talk that you can yesterday here, adept that create tell us a little bit about Stop like, >> yeah, So stoplight is a platform. Teo, build test and design web ap eyes specifically, we focus right now on recipe eyes, but we're really encouraging design first principles when people are building out there a prize for very much preproduction And what we have found was so many guys out there are not documented. They're not tested, they're not designed well And so we wanted to build tooling the help users be able to do that. >> So that documentation we've heard yeah, yesterday and today is absolutely >> essential. Yeah, And so a lot of what we're doing is we're actually using the Open A P I specifications, which a lot of teams at Cisco are now using. And so we can auto generate documentation from that. But also, we can auto generate instant mock >> servers. >> Um, do different types of testing all from that, because it's both human and machine readable. You're taking advantage of that. >> So you gave a tech talk yesterday, so I like the title going to Infinity and beyond Documentation with open FBI. Tell us our audience, like basically kind of an overview of what you presented in the three takeaways that your audience left with. >> Yeah, so historically open a P I specification has been known to be an auto generating reference documentation. So what people are like, Yeah, I know it for documentation, but they don't know it for all the other things. So the things that helped them do design first principles, the things that helped them mock and get feedback about their AP eyes and also how to test. And so I say, the three takeaways, that's what I focus on, was, how does this design first really benefit us? And why is it worth spending that time? Because a lot of engineers. It kind of feels like a friction point. Like you're making me do something else before I can start coding on DSO helping them see those benefits and then also being ableto use the feedback through They get through mach ap eyes so that they don't have tio code all the p I and then get the feedback. They could do it before that process. So much, master. Yeah, totally. And just better testing to actually make sure that we once we designed the A that we actually implementing it to what the design says. Uh, >> so I'm not design front. You mentioned design first telling you before we met. Lied that we've heard that. Yeah, I did what I had yesterday and today. This's design first approach and it sounds like from what you're saying for developers, it's not necessarily the first thing they want to do. They want to get their hands on start coding. So yeah, tell may tell us what design first means and actually how it can really make the developers job better. >> Yeah, Yes. Oh, Design First is really just being able to take a step back before that code and like describe what the is on a lower like endpoint level for us that's doing it in a visual editor at Stoplight. We actually have a visual editor to help people do that so that it's not like writing things from scratch. So even then, that makes it faster than having to write on a blank document that nobody wants to like right in. And it might be a mess. And decisions are hard to make around that document because it's a mess and all this stuff and then being able to take that and then start doing the mocking and all the other things. So for developers, it's a lot about getting to see what those other benefits are to convince them that it's worth it. And that's going to save some time overall versus like having toe wait. One great example of that is actually with being ableto Ma K P IIs friend and engineers could go ahead and start implementing the guy before the development process of actually implement thing is even done so that traditional, like waterfall development process. You just cut that out because they can start doing in a parallel on DH so it can really make teams a lot more efficient. >> Did you Were you happy with the reaction yesterday? This is a This is the definite communities. God. Five hundred eighty five thousand plus people. There's been about four hundred here in person. What was the reaction? Especially from developers who may have been around a while and are very used to the waterfall upload where they like. Taylor. This is amazing. Or girl, this is like a whole cultural change. Yeah, you know, I mean, we we work well, >> actually, a lot of enterprise companies that stoplight. And it is it is a little bit of a cultural change. You talk, there's this whole bigger idea of, like, a P I transformation. Even just moving to having a pee ice first is a bigger change. And then, you know, then the design part. But I have found that once, if you're introducing somebody to a prize first, it's easy to sneak in design. So then you don't have to Then teach Oh, let's design the first and do decide. It's all part of the same package s o. A lot of enterprises what They're like transformations to moving toe, like in a very FBI focused infrastructures. They then are just more receptacle to design >> first. That's good. Especially if you're able to show them that the obvious benefits. Yeah, there getting things done faster like this is actually taking this new approach. Is that going to be better for you? And do you find that that developers are adjusting quickly to this new? Yeah. I mean, there's definitely >> pain points. The tooling is still catching up. Uh, so the industry is for recipe eyes has kind of centered around open FBI specifications. But there were others before that Ramel for a specifically and I'd use it for anybody. Also open a p. I used to be called swagger specification. Some people might know it by that, but a lot of it is like, Yeah, the tooling is still maturing, but it's in a lot better place than it used to be. So when I was a back end FBI engineer about four five years ago, I was introduced through a P I blueprint, which is another justification, and it was very painful tohave to document in a p I with it. And now it's just gotten so much better with the tooling mature >> you can see massive differences alone just by asking. >> Totally. Yeah, just like the last four years, actually. >> So this is your first definite create and your speaker at your very first one. That's pretty cool, Taylor. Yeah? Yeah. How long have you been involved in the definite community? And how is it impacted what you do for stuff like, >> Yeah. So I was kind of introduced through it. I knew people that worked on definite and like Mandy. And And so then I kind of got introduced that that, you know, it's been really interesting to see how they built up this community of people sharing code. And it's different then, like, get hub type community. And so it's kind of interesting. It was just like it's ah, you know, you don't see a lot of communities that are run by companies that necessarily >> there they're >> not in the code repository business, but they see the value in people sharing things and collaborating and stuff like that. And so it's kind of different of a community, but also very interesting tow. Have watching grab >> the sharing in the collaboration you walk in yesterday. People are eager to do that Yeah, and other types of conferences that we covered the Cube, especially if there's cooperative Shin Partners there. It's a different vibe has been very, very much one that's been refreshing on and to your point. The difference between what Cisco's built here in the lost, very organically bio away in the last five years with Suzie and Mandy have done that opened nous and that excitability to share things and learn from each other, even though there's got to be developers here from competing companies. Yeah, that's a very cool spirit. Yeah, and something that I think they've done a very good job fostering that they also I kind of wonder if it's chicken and egg. How much has definite. And this, you know, over half a million strong community been sort of forcing function or an accelerator of Cisco's evolution? If you look at Cisco's been around for such a long time, not on a P I first company Yeah, big enterprise. This is a big all of their products and with GPS ***, been really >> awesome to see all the talks that are focused on Cisco's a prize being designed first like I don't see a lot of enterprises that feel like they've really taken it toe heart as much. I've talked to some people and they say, Yeah, I mean, you know, there's been some pain points, but I'm like, Yeah, but there's companies that are envious of the Y .'All done this. Yes, and they've really, like, probably improved the developer experience that they're a piece so much because of having that design first >> approach. So one other thing that I think it's very cool about definite and create is that yesterday morning it was kicked off by two really strong technologists. You don't mention we had Mandy really on yesterday is a senior director of developer experience. Right after you. I've got Susie Leon, the SPP in CTO, and I go to a lot of events. The Cube covers a lot of events every year, and it's very important to us to be able to highlight women and technology because it's still an unresolved, you know, gap there. But it's also really unusual to see an event kicked off both days. No females. You've been a stem since you were a kid. How does that impact you? Do you see that is inspiring. You that is. I wish it wasn't an issue. >> Yeah, no. Yeah. I wish it was an issue, but no, but it's really awesome. So, like, when I was trying to decide if I accept my when they asked me to come speak, I totally looked at that. That was something when I saw their faces on them that they were going to be key notes and stuff, you know, it gave me already, like, a whole different feeling of how the conference >> was going to be >> so it was really exciting to see that. Yeah, >> that's good. And when I first got into tech a long time ago, I was just not aware of what was not monitor in a technical role. But I didn't notice. I mean, they noticed the difference and the disparity, but I didn't feel it. Yeah, And so it wasn't until I started going to more and more events where I sell >> theirs. So, yeah, sometimes you're at events where it's just the sea of people that don't look like you. And it's a lot different here. >> Yeah, until I imagine I appreciated it this morning. I'm sure. Well, when Susie called onto stage the young girls from Verizon and those from Presidio that are Cisco's clearly making a concerted effort to recognize and help this diversity in thought. I mean, imagine designing AP eyes with, you know, many different perspective is better products and services and company, and will be we just have more thought divers in and of itself. >> Oh, yeah, I think about it a lot with developer experience. So one of the things is there's this idea of beginner's mind failure that sometimes if if you think you're a p, I is like, great. But you don't approach it with the beginner's mind, you might actually be failing a lot of your users. So, you know, your, uh, your veteran developer, you're, you know, super skilled and you you don't fail in the somewhere areas that someone who's newer to development might fail. And so then you just lost a bunch of customers and right up front without even them getting deeper into the FBI. And so being ableto have, like more diverse perspectives around, designing a prize could definitely help prevent that. That's a >> really important point so that you make there because it's like if this is really everything that's designed these days. Whatever it is a on iPad. But sticker a piece of clothing. It's all designed for a consumer. Yeah, to consume whatever the product of services. And, you know, in technology, so much conversation goes around delivering an outstanding customer experience. And you're saying, you know, we have to think about that. Probably worked design, thinking, coming play right about designing with that sort of a day bers perspective of approach. That paper you gonna lose customers here were >> actually gets to the bottom line. Yeah, versus just being like a nice benefit kinds. >> Yeah, well, Taylor has been so fun having you on the Cube. Thank you so much. Now you have a flight to catch back in Austin. So thank you so much for doing this afternoon and rats on being a speaker at first. And it will seem Thanks for having me. My pleasure. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching to keep live from Cisco. Definite. Create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching