>> Announcer: Live from Austin, Texas. It's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2017 Brought to you by Red Hat, the Linux Foundation and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone. This is a special live coverage here in Austin, Texas with theCUBE with KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Stew Minniman. Our next guests Mike Barrett, senior project manager at Red Hat and Brian Gracely, director of strategy, Red Hat. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. Welcome back, Brian. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Alright, so Red Hat. I was at re:Invent last week and they want the Red Hat stamp of approval. A lot of customers, you guys have had a huge track record in all the large enterprises. Tier 1, now with cloud gain What's going on? OpenShift has been a big momentum point for you guys Give us the update. What's the status? How are you guys taking that Red Hat stamp of approval value with OpenShift? >> Well, even if we just start from where AWS was, so we were there last week. We're seeing a ton of customers who were Red Hat enterprise Linux customers picking that up, moving it into AWS. So we're seeing that footprint migrate, which is great. We had a huge announcement with AWS around extending their services back into OpenShift through what we call the open service broker. So, basically, think about putting AWS services in your data center or at least making it virtually look like your data center. Those things themselves are huge 'cause now customers don't have to say "Is it like all cloud, public cloud, "or all private cloud?" It's like hybrid cloud is there today, right now. >> Yeah. This started for us back in 2015 I remember the first five minutes of every customer conversation was "How do you pronounce Kubernetes?" >> John: (laughs) >> And 2016 was pretty much your choice of "How do I use containers?" And then the tail end of 2016, it got exciting, right? People were doing big numbers on deployments. 2017 was an unbelievable year for us. I mean, you name the market sector we have penetrated it pretty deeply with Kubernetes technologies, so it's been a great year. >> You guys have been really, Brian, I remember when we were working together I remember, what? Three or four years ago cloud-native we were kicking it around. We were joking with Lou Tucker earlier, "Hey, three years ago. Remember in Vancouver in open stack, when we were talking about how this could really be the land grab? And we were kind of pontificating. But I got to ask you specifically, you were early on cloud-native. You guys certainly saw it coming, as you always, always do in Red Hat, but what changed in your mind? What surprised you? What happened? You kind of called it out. It played out almost exactly as you said. Are you surprised that cloud-native and the whole pass folding into... How did it turn out in your mind? >> I think what it was and it is a little bit of a surprise 'cause you're trying to think what's going to happen in the future. I think what ended up happening and we hear this from pretty much every customer is we're going to change what our user experience is going to be. So if you're Hilton Hotels today, your user experience is a mobile phone with a digital key. Those folks are using Kubernetes We're seeing banks using Kubernetes, airlines, trains. All of them are like I want to be mobile I want my user experience to be better than it was before. I want to deal with like spikes in demand and stuff. What's been really surprising is, you would've thought okay, those aren't Silicon Valley companies, but all of those companies are using Kubernetes. So the technology, the community has made it simple to use. They've adopted containers like crazy. Which has been, we've seen a little bit of that with docker but it's accelerated. That's been the big trend we've seen. People want to change their customer experience, and containers make it easier and Kubernetes makes it scalable. >> Mike, I got to get your take on this, because he's bringing up a good point about the mobile phone. Software is now the product of the company. No one goes into a bank anymore, there's tellers around sure, but the app is the interface. The software is the product. >> Mike: It is. >> It's not IT anymore. It's actually a whole new business model. I mean it sounds cliche but that's actually happening. >> Mike: For OpenShift, it's always been about developer velocity even before it was about Kubernetes. It was about helping people bring new ideas to market through software. And the interesting thing about a CADs and a PASs and that debate in the industry on which would survive. Our take was that, you can build whatever you want, if you have the right technologies and the right solution and that you shouldn't have to make that choice. If you want to just launch containers, then just launch containers. If you want to developer experience, have that developer experience, but they're not two different things. >> One of the things that's been beaten around for the last couple of years is customers want to have really, as much of the same stack in their own data center as they have in the cloud. You know talked about Brian start talking about Linux everywhere. Of course Linux is everywhere. It's been very prevalent at the edge. How much of that stack needs to be the same? How much is okay different? How does Kubernetes fit into that? Mike maybe we can start with you. >> For Kubernetes, we've been asked a lot. How do we feel about the announcements of all the cloud providers now offering to manage Kubernetes service, and we love it. There are certain like Uber and Lyft. I'm sure Uber wishes Lyft wasn't there, but in a platform technology space. You want people to gravitate towards the technology. And now that we have that debate over and so many people are offering Kubernetes. People are willing to move forward with their careers around that Kubernetes. They're willing to bring their whole clientele and their corporations to Kubernetes, and we are in a good early adopter, early mover position to really help them with that. >> Explain that a little bit more because before if I wanted Kubernetes, well I could go get OpenShift. Where cater platform, that's Kubernetes but I'm using Azure, if I'm using Google Cloud, I'm using AWS. Where do you fit? Where do they fit? How does that relationship work. >> So it's a container platform right, and containers are movable images. The thing that people forget about is part of the trick of working with containers is how do you introduce change? We just talked about how we have to introduce developer velocity. You need a hook in front of it and a user experience in front of it that helps you deal with these containers. Build them, deploy them, wake up when they change, connected to the GitHub code repositories. All these different scenarios. Kubernetes is an engine and you can put it in a truck or you can put it in a Ferrari, and we just happen to put it in OpenShift. >> I got to ask you guys, what of the point about the whole industry comes and pass all this stuff. It's interesting, you guys didn't take the bait in that debate and one of the things I said at re:Invent. Brian I'd like to get your thoughts on this question too is I said at re:Invent to Andy Jazzy. Look all the fudd around cloud specifically Amazon has been debunked. It never happened and we just kept on executing. My point was, if you pay attention to the fudd and their rhetoric in the industry, and not be practical about what's going on. You can loose sight of the value groups, so I got to ask you the question. What has been debunked about OpenShift? I'll give you a chance to say it because I've heard over the years. We've heard many come oh, OpenShift. Share your thoughts because now we have enough history say look at, you're successful. You got great customers. What's been debunked all that fudd? >> I think when it comes down to is there's a lot of companies who get wrapped up in our technology is going to change the world. You need to adapt to our technology, whether it was a platform or a container thing. We got humbled. We got humbled about three or four years ago because the original OpenShift while it was great, it was simple for developers. Just was not getting the adoption that we wanted. We made a huge choice to say we're going Kubernetes. That was crazy back then. Now it was crazy to think you were going to partner with Google, who had never done Open Source in the open before. They were a cloud, we were a software provider like but we wanted the technology hook, line and sinker, and then we were really pragmatic with customers. Mike spends a huge amount of his time, going out and talking to customers going what do you want to do. I think when you do that and Amazon is the same way right, Andy says the same thing like listen to your customers. When you listen to customers, they tell you their problems and you're not religious about the technology and you're willing to make changes like that's how you can be successful and ultimately that's how OpenShift evolved. We embraced Kubernetes when the other thing wasn't working and now it's given us a huge advantage. >> Mike give us some color to that because you guys didn't get caught up with OpenShift into trying to line up with the industry rhetoric at the time. You just got down and dirty, and I bet on Kubernetes, by the way great bet. Hey what are customer's saying? What are the (indistinct speaking) workers? When customers talk, they don't say I want a pass layer. They don't say that but what do they say? How did you get there? >> At the end of the day, it's true that they want a application right. They want a service, they wanted to deploy a service, but the nuance to that is that how you deliver the platform will dictate the application or architecture that you're allowed to have. And what was happening in the market at the time it was a very narrow scope or types of apps that they were trying to provide. What we found was that we have a very large green field environment in those customers that are revenue generating apps. And they had a different application pattern than this micro services and this pure cloud-native. You always want to be able to do both, and we were the only one in the market that was helping you do both. Great and less super, congratulations. I want to get that out, I think you guys have a great accomplishment that's good job with the two days at good spot. Results, obviously is what they are but going forward where are we today. What's next? What's happening? I heard in the key note. I didn't hear several. I heard pluggable architectures and I heard service mesh. Okay you got my attention, what does that mean? I actually wrote down service mesh. So now that's the big thing. Is it going to redefine, reimagine? So these are cool concepts, how did that relate to OpenShift? >> Well from a pluggable perspective right, there was a time when people said, "I want to build a structure platform, "make it simple to get stuff." That model is blown up. That's where Kubernetes is gone. Make everything composable right, if you want like OpenShift brings together a lot but it's pluggable. You can integrate with a ton of the people that are here for customer choice, and then what we're learning is people are saying I'm learning how to build these distributed applications. I'm learning how to build them. But I need help, it's very hard to translate what you can do in Silicon Valley to what you can do in Cleveland or Austin or Boston or something. And so things like service meshes and STO and all these things are basically saying let me give you enough of a framework to build these cool applications. Don't make your developers have to do so much. Build some things into Kubernetes. Build them around this distributor architecture. Make it easier so that when the business goes, "Hey I want to try something new." developers don't go, aww I got to reinvent the wheel. It's like, oh there's a bunch of scaffolding there. I can build a building from that. >> And you guys have a product there, a state of the art. >> We do, obviously everything we do is going to be upstream. So we've been working very heavily with STO. We've been working with Onvoy which is coming out of Lyft. That's the cool thing right. Technology coming out of Lyft is now in the open source community. We can use it to help banks. We can use it to help insurance companies, like that's what's going on there. >> Mike one of the things we were looking at coming to this show is talk about complexity in the space. So many projects, how do you balance having an opinionated solution that hopefully helps customers through some of the main things verses giving them the flexibility to meet what their business needs. >> Yeah I think Brian touched on it and that's at the essence why Kubernetes is so successful as an open source community. If you look at any component of it, it is layerable, it's pluggable, it has defined APIs and interfaces where you can remove stuff. And that allows different businesses to come in and be extremely successful in the ecosystem without taking out the entire platform. And that API compatibility, those folks are what we look for and what we're offering to our customers. If our customer is invested in say NSX networking. They can use NSX networking with OpenShift. There's just a variability of mix and match. I think the last 12 months, 18 months have told us like opinionated, went too far. I mean essentially everybody who's made announcement on Kubernetes said, yeah we tried opinionated, didn't work. And that's where we are today, people have come back around to composable and we've seen it for three or four years, and that's what customer's want. They want it to be simpler but they still want some flexibility whether it's a vendor they want to work with or just a deployment model they want to work with. So you guys probably have more customers than almost anyone in this space. Any trends or data you can share as to what are the most success customers doing. What pitfalls should you avoid? >> The leading sectors for us so far has been government surprisingly, we provide an SE Linux layer on top that most people don't and that's very attracting to those types of customers. After that financial services, insurance industry in particular. Pharmaceutical type, an awesome trend right now is the energy around Kubernetes for HPC and GPU type computing. That's attracting oil and gas, that's attracting marketing analysis. >> Yeah there's a bunch around planes, trains and automobiles and here's what's cool about it. We'll look at BMW. BMW was working on next generation apps in their cars and then we look at Volvo, and Volvo is looking at how do you modernize their existing supply chain to be able to either just have a better sales experience. So same industry attacking different parts of their install base and so forth. So that for us has been really interesting. One day, you'll talk to a company that wants to build a mobile app and reshape their interface. And the next time, the next one wants to rebuild their back office system and that's what OpenShift has been able to do and have been successful. >> Mike Barrett, Brian Gracely, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Great to have you on. Obviously Red Hat continues to be a leader in open source, everyone contributed across the board. From day one and great success on OpenShift. Good bet on Kubernetes. >> Thank you. >> Nice to see those bets come home isn't it. >> Absolutely. >> (indistinct speaking) meet a lot of naysayers at the beginning. Love Kubernetes, good job, congratulations. Live coverage here at KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. I'm John Furrier. Stew Minniman live. After this short break, be right back. (uptempo techno music)