>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCube, covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, everybody. We're here at the Mandalay Bay. This is theCube. And we have two days, sorry, three days of live wall-to-wall coverage of IBM Think 2018. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with my co-host Peter Burris. Steve Robinson is here; he's the general manager of client technical engagement for IBM, and he's joined by Bala Rajaramen, who's an IBM fellow, expert in Hybrid Cloud. (microphone feedback) Gentlemen, welcome to theCube. >> Oh, good, thanks for having us. Always a pleasure. >> Thank you. >> You're very welcome. So, Steve, let's start with you. >> Sure. >> We were talking off camera about some of the work that we've been doing in what we call true private cloud. You talked about some of the work you've done with BCG, your own internal work. What are you seeing in terms of private cloud and the resurgence of private cloud? >> You know, it's kind of fascinating. You know, over the past, probably two years, we started to see this kind of next definition of private cloud coming about, where most firms had spent a lot of effort on virtualizing their data center, building up these beautiful VMware firms, etc., and then this next level is, how can I start to do more cloud capability back behind the firewall? This notion of CaaS, container as a service, started showing up in RFPs. People wanted to say, hey, can Kubernetes come back as well, could I use private cloud as a parking lot for certain workloads, and could it possibly be the basis for doing true multi-cloud down the road where some of these environments may start landing both on private, multinode private, and even on public as well. So it's been a real resurgence from our side. >> So we made the observation several years ago with our research team that CIOs are realizing they couldn't just put their business into the public cloud. >> Right, right. >> Rather, they wanted the cloud experience and they wanted to bring that experience to their data wherever that lives. >> Exactly. >> So, Bala, what technical challenges does that bring and how do you guys solve them? >> Yeah, it's interesting because, I mean, when you look at cloud, it's about what makes something a cloud. And I think the two things that CIOs are struggling with, which is why public cloud was an attractor initially, was that easy self-service. I can get to things quickly from the business perspective, and I can manage it very consistently because everything works the same. And I think what Steve alluded to was when you bring the cloud to you, it's not just bringing the capability, but it's bringing the experience. And can people get to it easily? Can businesses be competitive in that environment? Can the operations guy manage that environment like they would manage something at a cloud scale? And that, essentially, was the challenges we had to solve, not just in moving things, but in moving all the right pieces around it so that it was a cloud, yeah. >> So, we talked with you about the whole concept is the cloud experience where the data warrants it. And as you said, it's not just bringing technology in, it's also bringing the entire operating model-- >> That's right. >> Of how the cloud works. IBM is a big company, has always been its first customer. What has IBM been learning as you become more of a cloud-first company, or a cloud-oriented company, and how are you bringing that to your customers? >> Well, definitely I think the key thing we've been doing has been in a, you know, spirit of transformation for the past three years, as well. One of the things we picked up critically when we started the private cloud effort is there's a dimension of having to fit in with what an enterprise has already. They've got a strong system management process in place, they've got ticketing, they've got their plasmas up on the hall showing the up time of their applications. The biggest challenge was when they were moving to public cloud, they were kind of giving that to the public cloud vendors and they were losing visibility in that as well. So part of this, we had to respect them to be able to allow them to see their applications, to be able to fit into their existing environments, and be able to fit into the process. We can't leave that system management team behind. >> And just to add to that, I think when you look at the evolution of things like microservices, you're breaking something that was intrinsically a whole and manageable as a whole, into a bunch of individual pieces. That challenge has always existed when you move from mainframes to distributed, because the management challenge more than anything else. You could build applications quickly, but it's really hard to manage them with microservices across multiple clouds, it's a fascinating exercise. So I think our learnings, to your point, was we have to think about it in a different way. Think about from an app-centric way, not from an infrastructure-centric way. And I think that's critical. >> I want to build on that for a second because Judy talked this morning, and we certainly would agree with the concept of your data as an asset. Are we really thinking apps-centric longer term, or data-centric longer term, and apps-centric is more how do we affect the transition because that's where the value proposition is today? >> Right, and that's where your assets are, right? >> Right. >> And your data becomes an integral part, an entangled part of it. As you split your applications, you're also looking at splitting your data, and how do you manage that? How do you manage where the data is placed? Manage where applications are placed? I think the true cloud value, going back to your question, is how does this multi-cloud universe around placement of data, placement of applications, security models, availability models, how does it all come together? And I think that's the biggest challenge, and I think we are doing some interesting work to address this. >> We almost view it always as kind of two planes at the same time. Where do we optimize the application based off of the performance characteristics, you know, how much compute do we need around it, you know if it's a very sophisticated investment banking, let's get that closer. We've even been running private cloud back on the mainframe, Kubernetes clusters back on the mainframe. But then the whole data story now with regulatory, with GDRP, etc., gives you another layer of complexity. So we almost have to look at what's the app doing, and then what's the data doing at the same time? >> You've kind of called it cloud your way. >> Yeah, right. (laughs) >> You used that statement a while back. And so we could define cloud a lot of different ways. We're talking about our data, you talked about some of your studies, and you show them, actually, the private cloud and the public cloud infrastructure's comparable in size. >> It's pretty close. Pretty close. >> We show private cloud smaller but growing twice as fast, so, okay. >> But we also call it two-prong cloud. >> Yeah, so we maybe have a different definition, but let's talk about the customer definition. >> Of course, yeah. >> A cloud is in the eye of the beholder-- >> Beholder, right, right, right. >> Beholder's the customer. So to me, it's about the business impact. Are they seeing an impact on agility? Is it changing their operating model? Because if it is, then it's going to have a bottom line impact, and if it's not, it's just a lift and shift on prem. What are you seeing in terms of the customers? >> Well, I think it's interesting, though, you used the term lift and shift. That's one of these, I call it an urban myth of cloud. Nothing is a lift and shift. >> Dave: Right. >> I think part of the challenge for us is could we bring some cloud attributes back behind, and what would that do for you? I know Bala mentioned self service. We, you know, some degree of horizontal scalability. We'll never have ultimate scalability like we have in the public cloud, but we can spin up multiple instances and start to manage pieces in a different way. The other area that we looked at that we had never thought about when we did our Bluemix local product, etc., could this be a path also for their middleware coming forward at the same time? Could we take this opportunity to start to containerize WebSphere, MQ, DB2, so that more workloads could move towards the cloud without having to have them be fully replaced and change up all the dependency chains, etc. So that's been a key thing, to pull the gravity of that middleware forward, while you kind of have it back on premise, as well. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think, going back to the lift and shift point, right, I mean, I think the traditional disadvantage of a lift and shift was you're moving your bad with your good, right? >> Right, right. >> And I think what this gives us in approach is how do you actually decouple that? Your applications are your crown jewels. You have invested a lot of effort over many years. What held you back was the processes you put around it that slowed you down. So being able to, to Steve's point, when you bring WebSphere, for example, onto a cloud platform, you minimize the risk, you enhance the value of building your application or moving your applications as is. That's a valuable lift and shift. But what you're not lifting and shifting is all of your processes, all the bureaucracy, all of the more traditional ways of doing things, and that combination, I think, is really the, to pick on your definition, is a true private cloud because it brings a customer-perceived value of, and a customer-perceived values risk. It is cost, and how do you optimize that? You're minimizing the risk, you're giving them a new operating model, a new self-service model, that takes away the bad and keeps the good. And I think that is, to me personally, I think that's a very exciting thing. >> Well one of the things that people always talk about when they talk about cloud is they talk about elasticity. >> Steve: Right. >> Great idea. But we like to talk about plasticity. >> Steve: Yes. >> Which is a different definition. Elasticity is same workload and scale, plasticity is the ability to consume, bring up, new workloads, do a better job of patches and updates. >> Steve: You got it. >> What do you think about that notion? At what point in time does the industry start to focus more on the fact that you can use cloud to fit your business differently? To snap your business into place differently, as a consequence of these services? >> That's a great insight, and it's one that I think most people just don't realize out of the gate that even bringing some of these cloud capabilities and also some of these more advanced container orchestration capabilities to all of their workloads gives them a lot more flexibility. We use a term pet versus cattle. You know, where in the old days, I would stand up, middleware stack, etc., and I would do everything to make sure that thing stood up, it was never impacted, etc. With some of the orchestration that we find in Kubernetes, I can stand up six versions of those. If one ends up getting knocked down, who cares? I can just automatically launch another one right back up. It changes the way how I manage that environment. It gives you more flexibility. It gives you more dynamic capability as to where I actually put individual pieces, even with my own infrastructure as well. So I think this could open a whole new era of how I manage. The plasticity; I like that idea as well. >> Yeah, that's a great word because I think when we started this discussion, I did not define cloud as being elastic for very much the same reason because from a business perspective, elasticity is a lower down function, or more of a second-order function. Being able to consume it easily, not be worried about how it's deployed-- >> It's a value proposition with a cloud guy's term. >> That's right, that's right. >> Exactly. And so plasticity's a much better word because that is a business impacting statement, which is, all to the point, which is I can deploy it. I can remove it. I'm not locked into particular things. I can evolve it very quickly. I think you're absolutely right and I think it's different. >> So speaking of the cloud guys, I got to ask you. So if the cloud guys were here, the public cloud pure plays wheel, they would say, oh, IBM, and we get this all the time with our true private cloud, that's old-guard thinking. >> Sure. >> Okay, so what we're doing is changing the world, what they're doing is trying to put a little, you know, lipstick on virtualization. How would you respond? >> If you look at the workloads that a typical enterprise, now, trust me, if I was building greenfield applications or doing a brand-new start-up with my BC money, etc., boom, if I had the chance, I would put it on public and run right away. A lot of flexibility, etc., with that. But the enterprises that we've worked with, I tend to say that most of the ones where we come in and we evaluate large number of workloads, you know, we just did one with a bank. We evaluated 900 different workloads. 15% met their regulatory and their risk policy and could move to the public cloud. That leaves 85% that are either going to stay in their legacy state, or are not going to start taking advantage of some of the cloud concepts we have. So, yeah, you've got to come back behind. And I think if you look at the public vendors, they're trying desperately to either send hard drives down or send appliances down. They understand they're going to have to extend down so that they can bring more workloads the right direction here. >> Of course. >> Now, we're advising our clients to focus on what's their value proposition, what activities are most important, what data's required to perform those activities. >> Steve: We say right cloud for the right workload. >> Yeah, and the question with data is latency, regulatory, and IP protection. Does that resonate with you guys? >> Yeah, that resonates very well. And I think, to me, we are trying to impose a strategy on a current state of the universe. So I think we are arguing whether public cloud is the right answer, or private cloud is the right answer, based on how we perceive private and public today. I think it's, in the next 10 years, you're not going to be able to tell the distinction. I mean, it's going to be more like a central office model where you have the core switches, you're going to have distributed switches. That is the cloud. And who manages what, how you delegate it, multiple providers, cross-provider billing, it's going to become a fabric. Then I can't tell the difference between what's public and what's private. I mean, I have the boundaries well-defined. And so, I think I view that as the eventual strategy, and I think we are now predicting a future that we are just guessing. >> Does that suggest, Bala, then, that the capabilities of the on-prem services are going to be substantially similar to what you see in the public? Do you guys benchmark yourselves against your IBM cloud brethren and have a little healthy internal competition, or? >> No, it is contextual. So if you take something very complex like weather, where it is gathering data from a whole bunch of sources, it makes almost no sense to have something that's local. But if you look at some of the other services, even things like machine learning and so on and so forth, there are some that make perfect sense on a cloud. There's things that make sense on closer to the data, on premise. But what's going to be more interesting is how they work together. And over time, you're going to see the programming model evolve to eliminate the distinction between what is private and what's public. And you're going to see an operational model evolve with the right delegation and controls that wipes out the distinction. In 10 years, I think we are not going to be having this discussion of private versus public. It is going to be a cloud with private components, with public components, and the ability for, from a business perspective, for a client to manage it in the right way. >> So things like, sorry, Peter, things like functional programming models will be pervasive. >> That's correct. >> And it will be up to the client to choose which, where their data is, essentially, is going to dictate what they use and what-- >> Well, and I think-- >> The business requires. >> We envision today where it's almost done on a dynamic basis, you know, where you're really to the point where I may have a load that's based on CPU, etc., running predominantly in the private cloud. Then we have a bursting scenario, actually be able to pick that container up and dynamically move it up to public as need be. As my risk and compliance rules begin to change, I could dynamically say, the same application, these three we're running here today, let me do a distributed, distribution of those as well. Not heavy lifting. >> Really quickly, so we're going to focus more on how you get value out of your data where the infrastructure's not the issue, and even the applications are less of an issue. One quick question though. >> Steve: Yeah? >> So we talk about, we talk about self-service, we talk about rolling updates, we talk about new maintenance styles, all associated with the cloud. What about metering? What about pay as you go? At what point in time does pay as you go start to really hit private cloud options? >> Sure, sure. >> I think it'll hit it sooner than later, but I think what's going to be interesting is the economics of it. >> Yeah. >> I think there's a supposition that pay as you go is a better model from an economic perspective. Not always. It depends on the duty cycle of your workloads. We are seeing movement where, when the workload is variable, that pay as you go model is, is a better fit. When things get where you can actually understand the application, optimize the application, optimize the infrastructure behind the application, a different model which is-- >> But doesn't it make sense to give the customer options? >> Yes, it does. >> Of course you do. But I think we always talk about clouded option and cloud transformation. There's both a technical piece and there's a cultural piece as well. I had Forrester on stage with me yesterday, and I said, "What is the one thing that "enterprises have to get right with cloud in 2018?" He said, "Procurement." And I can recall a CIO asking me one time if I could sell him compute by the nanosecond. I said, "Can you buy compute by the nanosecond?" And he said, "Touche." (all laughing) They are used to buying in big blocks in certain circumstances. They're used to the enterprise license in certain instances. So that's going to have to show as much change as, you know, we could do fine-grain billing today. Does it match, and does it fit the need? >> All right, we've got to go, but Steve, I want to give you the last word. We really didn't talk much about Cloud Private, which is your sort of branding and your offering. Maybe you could give us a little commercial on that? >> Sure. Yeah, we launched this last year, early November. We did IBM Cloud Private. So what we did is we took a core Kubernetes base, we extended it with some other compute models, you'll see Cloud Foundry in there, you'll see VM's in there as well. We took our middleware, we did a full containerization of it so you'll see a lot of rich stack of our middlewares, and then you see this automation layer's on top of it, our processes, etc., to kind of help you manage that overall environment. It's gone gangbusters. In just two months we had over 150 of our large enterprise clients. We got some of the great ones here with Hertz, MRN, etc., and getting great value out of it already. So we're very positive. Getting a lot of great press off of it, and we got a sales team extremely excited about it as well. >> Okay, Steve, Bala, great discussion as always. Really appreciate you guys coming on theCube. >> Oh, always great. >> Have a good rest of Think. >> Well, thank you again. >> Thank you, guys. >> We appreciate theCube. >> All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching theCube live from IBM Think 2018. Be right back. (electronic music)

>> Las Vegas. Extensive signal from the noise. It's the Q covering interconnect 2016. Brought to you by IBM. Now your host, John Hurry and Dave Ilan. >> Okay, Welcome back, everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas for exclusive coverage of IBM interconnect 2016. This is Silicon Angles. The Q. That's our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Ferrier with my Coast Day Volante. Our next guest, Steve Robinson News. The GM of client technical engagement before that, in the cloud doing all the blue mix now has the army of technical soldiers out there doing all the action because it's so much robust. So much demand for horizontally scale. The sluices with vertically targeted, prepackaged application development. That's horrible. First you name it big data. Welcome back. Good to see you, John. Thanks. Good to be with you again. Always, like great to have you on because you got a great perspective. You understand the executive viewpoint. A 20 mile stare in the industry. But also you got the in the nuts and bolts in under the hood. >> That's right. A >> lot of action happening under the hood. So let's get that right away. Blue, Mrs Hot Night. Now it's about the developers. What's going on under the hood right now that customers are caring about? >> I always love the Cube. You guys were like one of the first guys talking to us two years ago when we just launched a blue makes on stage. We walked off, got in front of cameras here, and it was great. Over the past year, it's been it's been outstanding. We we're writing about 20,000 folks toe blue mix right now on public, we came out with dedicated and then what people had really been warning was local blue mix as well. So we finally have full hybrid chain that goes from behind the firewall to a single client dedicated cloud all the way up to the public as well. So we've been building that out with service is as well, so have over 106 service is on top of it. You'll see things like Watson, which is unique, our Dash CB analytics, which is unique Internet of things coming in as well. So it's been a great year old building it out and getting more clients on top of it, >> it's like really trying to change the airplane engine in 30,000 feet. Or, in your case, you guys were taken off and from the runway. How has that been? It's been growing pains, of course. Unlearning What? What's going on? What have you learned? Give us the update on >> changing the engine while the plane is flying, and we've used that analogy quite a bit in the labs and way have to show relevance in this market. You know, this market is probably the fastest face technical market I think I've ever been in, and it's moving at such a rapid pace. We had to ship a lot of technology out last year is well, we have every new middleware group in IBM. Putting service is on top of blue mix, so let's get it out there. Let's get it out fast. Now, of course, this year we're gonna harden it up a little bit as well. So more architectures, more points of view. Better look on how this stuff works together hardening up our container strategy, pulling it all the way back to the virtual machine. So both continue to expand it out but let's make it enterprise grade at the same time. >> And also, some differentiation with Watts has been a big play around Catnip. Yeah, really is different because right now with the quote, um, market the way it is court monetization is on number one's mind. Start from startups to enterprises. If you're in business, you want you're top line if you're starting to get monetization. So there's a little bit of IBM in here for people to take in. Well, >> you know, if you look at Watson, you know, when we first started with it, you know, it was this very large big chunk of software that she had to buy. And and we work with Mike Rodents Team toe. Can we chop it up into a set of service is Let's really make this a set of AP eyes, and we started noticing, you know, you saw in Main stage the other day out from Otis. You know, this was a pure startup. He's started picking up the social semantics. Let's pick up the you know, some of the works to text etcetera, conversions, and all of a sudden they're starting to add it in. They said they would have never had access to this technology before way Have that a P I said. Not growing up to 28 we announced a couple cool things this morning. We even showed how would improve your dating life. Probably need some of that with my wife is well to translate between the sexes there, but what people are doing with it now, it's kind of like blowing people. His mind is far beyond what the initial exception waas. >> So your team of your niche is when they get right. It's a large team. It's, but it's a new initiative. New Justice unit, New role for you Talk about that >> way. Kinda had >> a couple pockets of this, but way clearly found that getting clients to the cloud is both a technology challenge as well as a cultural challenge as well. So he brought together some technical experts to kind of help through that entire life chain help up front. You know, many clients are trying to figure out what their overall cloud strategy is, where they truly today and where do they want to get to be? And how can we help him with a road map? That kind of helps them through the transition. Many accounts are very comfortable with the only wanting to be private and only glimpsing forward Thio Public Cloud Helping us bridge across that as well. Then we have the lab service's teams and these air the rial ninjas, the Navy seals. They go as low as you can go and what they're helping. A good way. Yeah, that's good. That's good. That's why they're helping with this very specific technical issue. Technical deployments. A lot of our dedicated local environment. These guys, they're they're really helping it wire in a cz Well, and then we have the garages, you know, we're up Thio. Five of those were going. We announced four new Blockchain garages as well. And this is where firms air coming in to kind of explore do the innovative type project as well. So I think all the way from the initial inception through rolling it out into production, having that team to be able to support him across the >> board. And so this capability existed in IBM previously, But it existed in a sort of bespoke fashion that coordinated >> couple pockets here and there. We always have supports. We had various pockets a lap service's. But we won't really wanna have the capability of seeing that client all the way through their journey, bringing it all under me. We now can easily pass the baton, Handoff says. We need to have that consistent skill there with the clients all the way through their >> journey and is the What's the life cycle of these service is? Is it Is it both pre sales in and post there? Just posted >> many times we'll get involved like our cloud advisers would get involved. Presale. They'll say a specific workload wants to go to the cloud. What are the steps we need to take to make that happen? A CZ well, with our Laps Service's teams, you know, we kind of have, you know, anywhere from a 4 to 6 week engagement. Thio do a specific technology. Let's get it in place. Let's get it wired in et cetera, and then in the garage is you know, we could just take a very novel idea and get it up to, ah, minimal viable product in about a six week period. So again, we're not doing dance lessons for life but strategically placing key skills in with accounts toe. Help him get over that next hump of their journey. >> Steve, when you look at the spectrum from from public all the way down to private and everything in between are you, I wonder if you could describe the level of capability that you are able to achieve with the best practice on Prem with regard to cloud ability. It's service is all the wonderful attributes of child that we've come to know and love. Are you able to, you know, somewhat replicate that roughly replicate that largely replicate, exactly. Replicate that. Where are we today? >> Yeah, I think >> it's a great question. I think. You know, I think most of the clients that we're dealing with have been dealing with some virtualized infrastructure, probably more VMC as they as they've been kind of progressing. That story. One of the things we did it IBM is Could we bring a true cloud infrastructure back behind the firewall? Could we bring an open stack? We bring a cloud foundry base past all the way back through because the goal, of course, is if we could have the same infrastructure private, dedicated and public as they continue to grow and got more comfortable with the public cloud that could start taking work clothes that they had built in one location and start to migrate it out with you. That that local cloud the Maur used for EJ cases. So taking that system of record and building a p i's and allowing to do extensions to that allowing you access into data records that you have today dealing with a lot of extension type cases, you know the core application still needs to be federally regulated. It needs to be under compliance domain. It's gotta be under audit. But maybe I wantto connect it in with a Fitbit or connected in with with a lot Soon are connected in with the Internet of things sensor. I gotta go public cloud for that as well. So locally we can bring that same infrastructure in and then they could doom or service. Is that extended out in the hybrid scenario >> code basis? Because this has come up. Oracle claims this is their big claim to fame. That code base is the same on premise hybrid public. Is that an issue with that? Is that just their marketing, or does it matter what's IBM take on this? >> But we've done ah lot of work with the open standard communities to let's get to a true reference implementation. So on open Stack, we've been doing a lot of work with them, and this is one of the reasons we picked up the Blue box acquisition. Could we really provide a standard open stack locally and also replicate that dedicated and, of course, have it match a reference architecture in public as well? We've also done the same thing with clout. Foundry worked with Sam Ram G to be one of the first vendors, have a certified cloud. Foundry instance is the same local dedicated in public. I think that's kind of the Holy Grail. If you could get the same infrastructural base across all, three, magic can happen. >> But management's important and integration piece becomes the new complexity. I mean, I would say it sounds easy, but it's really hard. Okay, developing in the clouds. Easy, easier ways always used to be right, right well, but not for large enterprises. The integration becomes that new kind of like criteria, right? That separates kind of the junior from the senior type players. I mean do you see the same thing and what we believe >> we do? I think there's usually two issues. We start to see that this model looks great. Let's have the same code base across all three environments. What things? We noticed that a lot of folks, when you get into Private Cloud, had tried to roll their own. You know, open Stack is an open source Project clout. Foundry is an open source project. Let's pull it down and let's see units roll it out and manage it ourselves. These air a little bit you they're very dynamic environments, and they're also a bit punishing if you don't stay current with them, both of them update on a very regular basis. And we found a lot of firms once they applied tenor well, folks to it, they just could not keep up with the right pace of change. So when the technologies we invented was a notion called relay on, this allowed us to actually to use the public cloud is our master copy and then we could provide updates to get down to the dedicated environment and down to the local. This takes the headache completely away from the firm's on trying to keep that local version current. It's not manage service, but it's kind of a new way that we can provide manage patches down to that environment. >> So one of the problems we hear in our community is and presume IBM has some visibility on this. I'm thinking about last year, John, we're at the IBM Z announcement in January, rose 1,000,000 company talked a lot about bringing transaction analytic capabilities together. But one of the problems that our community has practitioners in our community course the data for analytics. A lot of it's in the cloud and a lot of transaction data sitting, you know, on the mainframe, something. How do they bring those two together? Do I remove the data into the data center? Do I do I move pieces in how you see >> we're seeing a lot of that. A lot of it was. Bring the technology down to where the data is, and and now you know the three amount of integration you can do with public data sources, private data sources, et cetera. We're seeing a lot more of the compute want to go out to the cloud as well. You know, we've done some things like around the dash, CB Service's et cetera, where I can start to extract some of that transactional data, but maybe only need a few pieces to really make the data set. That is important to me as I move it out, so I can actually, you know, extract that record. I can actually mask it into being something brand new, and then I could minute we mix it with public data tohave. It do brand new things as well, so I think you're gonna see a lot of dynamic capability across that with or cloud computing technologies coming back behind the firewall and then more ability to release that data be intermixed with public data as well. >> What's the number one thing that you're seeing from customers that you guys were executing on? There's always the low hanging fruit for the easy winds from bringing a team of street team, if you will out. Technical service is out to clients where they really putting that gather, not their five year plans, but their one year. Of course, there's a lot of that agile going on right now. New technologies. You can't isolate one thing and break everything. Za new model. What a customer is caring about, right? What's that? What's the common thing? I think >> over there in 2015 I think the discussion changed and went from Are we going to go to the cloud or we're going to the cloud now? How are we going to do it? And the nice thing about I think a lot of enterprise architecture groups kind of took a step back to say, What do we truly have to do? What is a common platform? What is an integration layer? How do we take some of our old applications and decomposed those into a set of AP eyes? How can we then mix that with public AP eyes? So probably taking one or two projects to be proof points so they could say, this thing really has the magic associated with it. We can really build stuff fast. If we do it the right way, it's gonna be in a catalyst to have the I t. Organization now take the tough steps in what's gonna be the commonality? What common service is are we going to use and how do we start breaking up >> around things you know, we have our own data science and our backcourt operation and one of the things that we always looked at with bloom. It's way start our Amazon. But now, with blue mix, you have a couple things kind of coming together in real time. You said it's getting hard, but those hardened areas are important identity. For instance, where's the data is an instruction and structure. I want a little mongo year or something over there, but with blue mix and compose, I oh, really has a nice fit. I want to explain to the folks we talked before he came on about this new dynamic of composed Io and some of the things that are gluing around blue mix. Could you share this >> William Davis King right? And I think people look to the Cloud Data Service is air. Probably it's the most critical, the most visible, and the one we have to harden up the most is well, even though IBM has been well known for D. B two and we've been a >> wire composed right >> that we did Cognos first, and then we followed up with composed by you because recent waded about, we did compose. I know about eight months ago what we liked about it was all of your favorite flavors, you know? So your your progress, your mongo, you're you're ready. But really having it behave like Like what you would want an enterprise database to do. You can back it up. You can have multiple versions of it. We can replicate itself >> is a perfect cloud need of civic >> class. It has all the cloud properties to it and all the enterprise. Great capabilities with it. Yeah, we've got that now in public, and then you're gonna start seeing dedicated, and you want >> to go bare metal, Just go to soft layer. It's not required right on these things where this will work in the cloud, and then you get the bare metal object you want pushed up the bare metal. No problem. Well, I think >> you know it. Almost hybrid is not gonna get a new definition around it. So it's all gonna be around control and automation, more automation. You need to go all the way up to a cloud foundry where it's managing all the health, checking and keeping your apple. I've etcetera. If you want to go all the way down to bare metal so you can tune it audited et cetera. You can do that as well. I think I've got one of the broader spectrum, is there? >> I'm impressed with the composer. I got to say, Go ahead, get hotel Excited by what? I get excited by just about every way. Just love the whole Dev Ops has been just a game changer in extras. Code has been around for a while, but it's actually going totally mainstream. That's right. The benefits are just off the charts. With Mobile, we have the mobile first guys on. Earlier in the Swift, we had 10 made 12 year old kid. I mean, it's just really amazing. Now that the APS themselves aren't the discussion, it's the under the hood. That's right, so you can have an app look and feel like it's targeted for a vertical, say, retail or whatever. But the actions under the hood yeah, yeah, more than ever. Now >> it's, you know it's funny this year, you know, Dick Tino to the Devil Obsession yesterday and you're the amount of proof points we had around it last year. We were scrambling a little bit and this year it's just we always had to thin out. That's how many guys were having great success with this stuff is coming into its own. >> It totally is. And you guys are give you guys Props were running as fast as you can and you're working hard. And it's not just talk. Yeah, it's It's it's legit. I'm gonna ask you a question. What's the big learnings from last year? This year? What's happened? What do you look back and say? Wow, we really learned a lot or something that might have been Magda ified for you in this journey this past year. >> A lot of it goes back to, you know, this changing culture at IBM, you know, the amount of code we put out in two years was just just unbelievable. But I think also the IBM becoming a true cloud company. Some of that we did with our own shop some, but we did through injecting it with acquisitions. You know, like to compose Io the cloud and team, the blue box guys, et cetera. I think we got the chops now to play it play pro ball way worked very hard, Teoh. How many folks, Can we attract the blue mix? We're getting up to 20,000 week. Right now. We're starting. Get some great recognition and the successes are rolling in as well. So a lot of hard work and a lot of busted knuckles. A lot of guys are tired. Definitely, definitely straight in the game now. >> Ready for the crow bait? Taking the pro GameCube madness starts on cute madness. There were, you know, keep matched all the brackets of the Cube alumni and vote on it turns into a hack a phone because everyone stuffed the ballots. Let's talk about pro ball for next year, a CZ. You guys continue? Sure. The theme here obviously is developer. I mean, the show could be dedicated 100%. The blooming LeBlanc up there kind of going fast at the end of this booth on the clock anymore. Time >> right. Like the Star Wars trailer we had >> going up, he needed more time. So it's good props you got for this year. What's going on the road map this year? What if some of the critical goals that you guys see on your group and then just in general for the thing a >> lot of the activities were gonna be doing again is hardening the stack. I've got a brand new team now called a Solution Architecture, where we're looking at it from top to bottom, taking customer scenarios and really testing it out. How do you do? Back up. How do you do? Disaster recovery? How do you do? Multi geography, You know, things like PC I compliance. The rial enterprise problems are now coming to the class global and their global. And with security and compliance, they're changing in a very dynamic fashion. We have to show how you can do those in the cloud. You'd be amazed on how many conversations we have with Si SOS every single week. Is the cloud secure? How do we do enterprise? Great workloads. IBM is bringing that story to the cloud as well. That's the story of >> a potato that content >> Curation is unbelievable, right? That's the hardest part. And it's not that we have it fixed either. But you were doing more of aggregating it together so that we can really pull it all together. I call it the diamond Mine versus the jewelry store. You know, we always have really did you got yet? The great answers out there somewhere. But if you don't start to pull it together into a single place So one of things we did this year was launched the blue mixed garage methodology where we took all of our best practices. We took text test cases, even sample code, and brought it into a single methodology site where people start to go out, pull it down, use it, etcetera. Previously, we had it scattered all over the place, and we're gonna be doing more things like that. Bring in the assets to the programmers, things that we've tried, things we've tested being more open about it, putting in a single location. >> Well, we certainly would like to help promote that. Any kind of those kind of customer reference architectures. Happy to pump on silicon angle with the bond outlook for the vibe. I'm sorry. Five for the show things year. What's the vibe this year? You know, I think I've >> been very impressed with it, and I think, you know, I've been stepping up its game If you go down to the blue. Mixed garages are motives. A motorcycle on stage, you know, kind of getting a little more hip and happening as well. But I think the clients here and this is always about the customer stories and some of the things that we're hearing from the three guys start ups that are doing GPS logistical management 22 to the big accounts, and the big banks that you really see have embraced the cloud and doing great stories on it as well. I think people come to this show so they see what their peers were doing. And they definitely walk away with a sense that the cloud Israel it's happening and 2016. It is really going to driving it home. That has to be part of everybody. Strategy motorcycles I had put on the Harley Man. We'll take it for a spin guarantee. Come on down >> and give my wife. When I got married, it was terms of conditions. That's right. That's right. Last, Watson that Yeah, Thanks, Steve. Thanks. Taking the time and great to see you again. Congratulations. What? They get technical engagement team that you have all the work that you did that blue mix noted certainly by the cube. Congratulations and continued success with Loomis congratulating >> you guys. Well, always a pleasure. >> Okay. Cube Madness, March 15th Cube Gems go to Twitter. And speaking of jewelry, we have Cube gems hashtag Cube gems. That's the highlights of the videos up there. Real time. And, of course, we're gonna get that TV for all. All the action videos are up there right now. I'll be right back with more coverage after this short break here in Las Vegas.

>>Live from Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the queue at IBM interconnect 2015 brought to you by headline sponsor IBM. >>Hey, welcome back everyone. We are live in Las Vegas. This is the cube Silicon angle's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John furrier with Dave Alante host. Our next guest is Meg Swanson, director of marketing for IBM blue mix and with psyched to have her back on the cube last year we interviewed you one year ago in blue mix got kicked off. It was just a beta. Now it's blowing up huge and all the great success. Welcome back and congratulations. Right. >>Thank you. It's been a, it's been quite a year of Steve Robinson says if we kind of count these and joggers feels a bit like seven and it's been absolutely exciting. So we've in a span of a year, cause when we met at polls we were just at beta, you know we were, we were onboarding developers, getting feedback and now we have over 102 services on the platforms. They're rolling out rapidly and we have the deployment models with public, private and then we announced local at the show and it's just been, it's been tremendous. >>But before we get into some of the details, there's a lot of things to highlight. I want to just say congratulations because we cover a lot of companies you want to win when we meet people and they say they're going to do something and then they do it and do more and over and over achieve on the, on the mission. Cause you guys were very cautious at first you got Bloomix out there and then the wind was your back. The CEO says we need to win cloud. Right? And so you get the little reorg going on. Nancy Pearson was on yesterday, shows a little, a little bit of color on that and now you've got developers, you've got resources at your disposal. So take us through that. What happened? I mean I'll see blue mix hit a nerve obviously right out of the gate the signups were pretty strong, but we didn't hit that tipping point. When did you take us through the tipping point? When did it go? Oh my God, we've got a tiger by the tail. It was when the resources came in, was it before or after? >>It has a bit before that. So it's really your middle of, of last year. So as we, we had incredible adoption early on. So really building Bloomix from an open source perspective, building on cloud Foundry, strong partnerships with cloud Foundry and the team. And then just onboarding service after service. It truly owned reticent and all the different partners that we've had. And then around October was when we brought the Watson services on and we had been steadily growing, you know, the developer following and the babies that was pre yes. And uh, and the teams have always a mix is a platform that we're serving up. Um, you know, the IBM, uh, services plus our third party and open source. So we, even though we asked, we just reorganized, we've been working across the team since day one because we have the internet of things services, which are fantastic. Those are taking off really well. And we have the Watson teams, we have the mobile teams, the DevOps teams. So we're constantly working across and now we're reorganized into the cloud unit, which is fantastic because it just helps accelerate even more so >>you know, any, any agile business that has continuous integration like the cloud internally, you have to kind of think that way. And we're hearing that I internally at IBM does a transformation to be more agile, to go faster, which everyone's saying go fast. Everyone wants you to go fast. The CEOs, they said that yesterday, um, was, it was the tipping point that you had success and you doubled down on it was there, the proof point was Watson says, Hey look it, we can do this. Was that the key enabler? >>Yeah, the tipping point for us was really in the early stages, listening to developer feedback and making sure that we were re architecting and designing the product, that we have an incredible onboarding experience. So it developers where we know from marketing standpoint, we were getting the word out and really focusing on building community. So, you know, a few months into the year we started just very small grassroots meetup groups. Right now we have 71 countries every other week having meetups for their building applications on Bloomix. So for us it was, it was getting that community started and then having the community realize that we were taking their feedback on board and we would get, even on our Twitter handle, we'd get updates saying, Whoa, thanks Bloomix didn't, didn't realize you were listing to a, to the feedback and they, and they would mentioned what they had, you know, tweeted at us as far as um, input and how we'd made the change. And so every other day we're posting, you know, blog posts with updates on how we're working with developers. Just to make it a lot easier. >>Matt, can you talk about your open source strategy and how it's evolved as a company? I mean, IBM was, I think the first large enterprise company to get dive into open source and you went in big billion dollar investment way back when the Linux stories were now, but it's really evolved. Um, you use your, your muscle, your money and your vision and, and your open source of history, you know, in the community. How has it evolved? How is it changing? >>IBM for over 20 years we've been driving and fueling and having engineers really involved in open source community and helping to move that community along lifted up and and really anything that you're doing, especially from a hybrid cloud standpoint, you have to have open standards, you have to build an open architecture, you have to be embracing, you know, all the various open source technologies that are out there. You saw the work that we're doing and you spoke with the Docker team yesterday and, and so from our perspective is there's, there's no other way it is open by design. So all of our teams are very focused on making sure that we're working with the cloud Foundry foundation and getting input from all of the companies that are involved in that foundation. Because together we are going to create, you know, open standards and drive and momentum. Because if you're an independent developer or even if you're a large enterprise acting at the speed of an independent developer like we saw yesterday with city, you've got to be able to move and be portable. And if you're locked into proprietary standards, you're, you're just really, there's, there's nowhere you to go in this new world and this all the integration that you need. >>Okay. But there's another nuance there that I want to explore with you is that in the old days, it used to be you'd have a committee, right? Right. Everybody would maybe pay to get into the committee and they'd set a bunch of standards. Nine times out of 10 or 99 out of a hundred that it would flop. Right. And people, a lot of people said that would happen. For instance, with cloud Foundry, you guys came in and gave it a big lift. They're talking to that way around the open data platform now. So what's the difference? Is it just that there's an open source component to it? Is it that simple? >>Is the community, so, I mean, open source is successful because of the community. Listening to the community and sharing the community has a voice. And then the companies that are involved at, you know, at maybe more of a, you'll see that the table from a leadership perspective with the foundations, it's their, their role and their mission to be listening to the community and bring those forward. If any of those fail and you know, the companies involved aren't listening to the community or the community's not engaged and doesn't feel engaged and they're not innovating the platform, it's not going to work. So that's why we're very focused on building the sense of community, listening to what's out there and then enhancing. So you on the announcement with the Docker around enterprise grade containers, we were very specific with the way we approached that and named that. And you look at your, the secure gateway that needs to be added. You look at, um, the enhancements we've made from cloud Foundry on auto scaling. So really looking at what is the community looking for and then how do we then pay it back. >>So what's the message to developers? I mean, it sounds awesome. It's not easy. What you just described. Just Oh yeah, let's get the community. Well, it's hard to build community. So what's the message to developers? They have a lot of choices, a lot of options, and they spend time in various areas. What's the message to them from IBM, >>from an over an open source standpoint, just to be involved, be committed, be any, there are projects every day within the open source community where you can contribute code and you can be involved. And it's really about being very active and vocal and having, having a seat at the table. So I mean our teams, we're constantly looking through stack overflow in the feedback that we see their feedback on Reddit, feedback on get hub, you know, how, how often is the code being for blood? What kind of adoption metrics are we seeing? So from a developer standpoint, I would say, you know, it's time to lean in and be very involved because I mean not just IBM, but all the companies that we're working with across absolutely listening. And I mean this is such an era for developers where they, they have a seat at, at this big community table. It's not easy, but it's the right thing to do. The >>Docker and the register, this is modern stuff that developers want doctors. The hottest trend, you know, I was talking to dr folks, we interviewed Solomon years or couple of years ago in the cube before they changed their name even it was like, and we're so excited and all of a sudden they're now the bell of the ball. As you say, everyone wants to get married with Docker. Red is also is compelling node. These are cutting edge technologies that are part of the integrated stack. So how do you guys talk about that? In contrast to say Amazon, because Amazon and developers are used to these things. Elastic means stuff. They have auto-scaling. What do you guys have now that's direct, directly competitive with Amazon? >>Well, from a, from an application development standpoint, I see where we've gotten advantage is you look at the history of IBM around dev ops, right? So bringing together development operations in this continuous delivery life cycle and really looking at how are you going to quickly build an application and then that's, that's not the end of it, right? You now have to make sure from a security standpoint or you know, and you've heard from Mark Zonoff yesterday and the team on how are we providing strong security tools where you can do, you know in process application scanning and then you've got to deploy, you've got to auto scale, you've got to bring it back and you've got maybe an issue you've got to remediate and then redeploy. So for us it's really looking at at mobile app development and web development in that developer life cycle. And then in our conversations with our partners, the open source community, it's ensuring that we are helping to accelerate that every step of the way. >>I mean the announcement around API harmony, great example where we've got kind of the era of the impatient developer and we're all of us where you don't want to spend time writing a line of code if it's already been written. You don't want to spend time, you know, creating integration and creating API APIs if they're already out there. What you need are the tools at your fingertips where you can quickly build an application, search all the API APIs that are available and your private API APIs, you know, connect that into your mobile applications so you're to market faster. And then it's about you're enhancing and uh, you know, and, and really bringing different, yeah. >>So what do you say the developer out there that's watching this gives it the profile. Yeah, I'm comfortable. Amazon, I'm not sure I should go on blue mix. Maybe I should, maybe the best move was not to move or maybe they have something I want that I don't know about. So talk about those two scenarios. Cause like they're comfortable, they're like, okay, I, I'm fearful of moving over cause I'm comfortable over here with my tooling. Um, you know, developers are cause you work with them and then there's also the fear of missing out. Like, can I do better on Bloomex? So that's a common theme that we're hearing on developers. So how do you, how do you talk to those specifics? >>Yeah, and we, uh, we have those conversations, uh, quite a bit. And it's really about looking ahead at your strategy and at what point, especially for uh, developers within large enterprises. At what point do you need to connect with the backend systems? At what point do you need to ensure that you've got secure connectors? Our European clients are Latin American clients. They had concerns around data privacy, right? And so how are you sure that even the data centers that it's hosted in, you know, we have 40 data centers within software and growing every day and those are owned by IBM. Those are secured and it's really looking at where are you going to go as you expand your application. And do you have the right partner in place, the right steps along the way that you can, and more importantly, that you're not locked in. Because as much as, I mean, we have a lot of heart for Bloomex and what we're building, we want to ensure that we've built it to be open because we also want to have know low barrier exit. We want to make sure it's a great experience and it's our job to make sure that we've got the right services. The right time. >>So you don't, they don't feel locked in. So lock in is the lock in is a satisfaction >>yeah. Experience. It's not a, Oh I can't move because it's going to be too expensive to, you know. Right. And then there is a sense of, of expense that we're starting to see around the hidden cost of data. And as you may have walked into what you thought was a freemium model with some of the providers that are out there and you're scaling and now you have an ornament amount of data coming in and you're looking to store and provision that we are hearing, I mean the, there are hidden costs there that are also going to opening the door to other players that we've, we've, we know that we understand, uh, what you're gonna be facing down the road. So we've built the, the pricing, the application, the platform to allow for that. Whereas there are other platforms that haven't, because it is, you know, working at that kind of volume and scales a bit bit new to them and having to move that >>data is a problem too. So you mentioned 40 data centers, the more the merrier. I say here's some of the statistics. What's happening? How many services we did a little bit yesterday. Go a little deeper. What's exciting? What are the, the, the proud pieces of the, the platform that you can share with the developers? >>Yeah, it's been the integration. It's high integration between the design teams and in listening to developer feedback and then constantly designing the platform to have an amazing onboarding experience. So we announced yesterday the, uh, the Watson zones and the internet of things zone. And these are really designed to be, uh, a way to onboard into blue mix for developers that give you all the tools and resources and training that you need in order to start using cognitive applications like Watson. Because it is as exciting as the Watson services are, you do have a moment where you sit back and think, how am I going to use the power of Watson in my application? So we're creating these onboarding zones. So that's been huge advancement. Really excited about that. You're gonna see a lot more zones come out from us this year. And then the area of internet of things. So we have our, our IOT services. You had Nigel and Ian on yesterday from silver Hawk and power boat racing with internet things. They're fantastic. >>How about business outcomes? Get to finish the race and when you know the stories to the monitors, so you know if your heart rates going over right, >>that's pretty important data. And uh, so, so what we've seen to the exciting areas are really the zones and then the adoption and growth around internet of things space. And, uh, it's, it's a funny art. Our teams of developers that are out working with clients and out working with startups. If you open up their bags, they're probably gonna find a light bulb, a pebble watch. Um, but to connectors, I'm surprised anybody can get their report security nowadays that's on our team because we have all these demonstrations that we're doing with clients of, you know, imagine if you have, if you're trying to create a smart building for your employees and you have their mobile devices that are sensing and, and pinging the, um, the thermostat system, the lighting system. I'm the office. And as they're driving in and getting in proximity, things start turning on inside the office. So we do downloads with light bulbs and watches and, and really are starting to think through this smarter planet and smarter cities initiative with internet of things. And how are you using Bloomix and the power of cloud to now bring that to life within, uh, within cities and within enterprises? >>Go ahead. What's the developer persona look like these days when you're talking about the startup she talked to you? Think of the hoodies you think about the enterprise guys. So those two worlds coming together, >>they are in, in the fact that a lot of large enterprises are building innovation centers inside of themselves. And so they have, um, whether it's, if they have foundries or innovation centers or groups of developers, they're really looking to harness that, that speed and uh, an innovation that we've seen from, you know, some of the enterprise developers. And then also the big advancement that we've seen is the continual growth of the hackathons. So, you know, we know city we've been partnering with at and T as well on, on creating as many opportunities for their internal developers and external ecosystem of developers to be bringing forward new ideas to them. And then what we, we don't talk about as much publicly are the internal hackathons we do inside of large corporations. So we work with the CIO, his office, we go in 24 hour period and their developers are working on Bloomex within 24 hours. Well, depending on the number of, of it of developers they have, we'll have, you know, 50 75 a hundred mobile apps that are built. And then shark tank style, you know, they pitch the apps to their CIO and we vote on them together, you know, with the company. And then that's the roadmap for, you know, their 2015 plan and what applications they're going to bring tomorrow market. >>So talk about the geekiness of IBM and we were talking about this on the intro about what IBM should be doing, obviously where we're editorializing and pining, but um, it's known as kind of like the big company is slow old IBM, big blue, big iron and you guys are trying to be cool to see the keynotes out here. We may see that, but you guys actually have a geeky kind of community going out with this dev thing, which we've been following the past couple of years. It's pretty cool. Um, IBM is a geek culture. I mean it's got a lot of geeks that IBM, and that's a bad word we heard in New York, but a lot of computer science is um, technical people, very awesome bench of talent and patents. Right? So I'll ask, coming to bear, we're hearing, so share with the folks out there that are watching, what's it like at IBM? It's geeky. Is it? Is it, you said they carry gadgets around, I mean, is that the way people are at IBM? I mean, what's the culture like? Your group is, I think one of the ones that are kind of the edgiest. I think it's definitely not a mall culture. >>This multiple pockets. You've got a conservative customer base, but the average to be good, you gotta be, >>yeah, you gotta be kidding. It's about being authentic. So we're not trying to be anything. We're not. And when you look at me, you met, you know, the teams that I've gone through. We've got Jeff's lawyer and Marvin Goldman running around on our teams and, and we have massive development labs, you know, OBS, developers within, you know, high fund, our, our London facilities. And this is going on every day. So we're not putting on airs. You're not pretending. This is truly what our teams are doing. So we have, you know, Joshua Carr in the UK is constantly with, um, you know, with, with children in schools, showing them how to fly a drone with a banana, right where you do the device connectors. That wasn't because it was a stunt that we were trying to pull. It's just truly what they do. And we're very involved in the STEM initiatives for schools. >>I'm very involved in, you know, our distinguished engineers working through. So, but to attract developers and to get them in gray shade into your platform on board, you're judged by the company kids, they want to see themselves there. Right? So that's, there's a culture of developers now, I don't want to say brogrammers but like in this, the youngest guns are like, they've never loaded Linux on machines. They always say what bloats off where it's all cloud to them. So you're born in the cloud. So that's just a complete cultural shift, right, to talk about you guys have that mojo internally or, yes, it's about, it's about taking what we know inside the company and exposing that to developers and creating that developer to develop our connection. And you mentioned programmers. I mean we have Lauren Schaffer, we have a number of female developers on our teams and we are very much focused on ensuring that we're leading and making sure that we are creating a very balanced on environment of developers and leading in that area of making sure we have a lot of diversity. >>And so it's really about, from a marketing standpoint, it's, you know, you don't market to developers. Yeah, no, your technical chops or what's the market and you make sure that what they're interested in and what thereafter we're going to connect them with an IBM development team or is somebody else in the community through developer works that's working on it as well. And it's that local community. There's local connections headfake developers as we learned that. No, and my team, my marketing team, it's half developers, half data analysts. I mean we are, I mean EDC shifts inside of IBM marketing. I mean it's all data driven. I'm using the entire portfolio SAS portfolio we have with, you know, Unica, Coremetrics and, and then every day giving developers more trends and more technologies to play with your kid in the candy store. They ask you the, um, the question that's on my mind is what was the big learnings over the year that you guys walked away? >>What was magnified this year? Y'all see, you launched it a year ago, you have some growth, right? What's the learnings that was magnified for your team and the whole group? I'd say the speed. Um, so when you talked about, you know, agile development, agile delivery, you look at going from, you know, a few services to 102, you now have to re reinvent the way product development is done inside the company. So it's cloud versus mobile first. And it's really looking at across all the services we have, how long can they be a beta, how long, you know, are we going to do testing? What is the beta to general availability, onboarding for developers and migration path. Because a lot of companies will launch a beta, you're using the beta, you're embedded in it, and then all of a sudden it goes generally available and you have to rip and replace. Like that's horrible. And you know, experience. So we've, the biggest change I've seen is just the agile delivery and the speed at which internally to IBM we're working and learning from our partners that we're onboarding, bringing more and more partners every day. >>We got a break, but I want to ask you one final question. What's the coolest thing that you guys have done with Blumix internally? >>So internally it's been the Watson services and the Watson hackathons. So, uh, we are doing message resonance and sentiment analysis, so you can actually take a memos that are written or uh, or external documentation, run it through message resonance and, and start creating profiles of, of messaging. So it's been a, so you've got traditional writers, you know, geeking out of it and now they're uploading their content into the mobile applications and, uh, and you're then changing the way that, >>yeah, we had, we did a test, Adam sent us a link for the beta with the blue mix and we took all our chats and the social group has an amazing crowd chats, a zillion people on it and it's a huge transcript. I just cut and paste the transcript into the site and it spit out like the top things. And it was like, you know, openness cause it's a, it's a Twitter, Twitter, Twitter chat and they gave it a little, all the sentiment. I was like, wow, this is awesome so we could see where this going. So, um, that's cool. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming on the cube again. Great to see you. Congratulations and keep us posted and we'll bull up. Keep checking in with you on the progress. This is the cube. We'll be right back live in Las Vegas after this short break.