(upbeat music) >> Back the cube here. I'm John Furrier with the cube. Thanks Adam in the studio. We've got two entrepreneurs here. Co-founders of LastMileXchange, Andrew Hoskin and James Grant. Guys, thanks for coming on the cube, >> John. Good to be here. >> Love to get the entrepreneur, both co-founders making it happen. I mean, the pandemic was either a tailwind or a headwind for companies and certainly the internet didn't break. Everything worked out great. So, let's just jump in, why don't we get into some of the questions. What does LMX do? Who are you guys? Take a quick minute to explain what you guys do. >> Sure. So, we're a software provider. We have a cloud-based SAS platform, which effectively it's a bit like a Skyscanner or an Expedia for networks. Carriers need to buy and sell networks from each other and we help them do that. And we have been in the cloud since day one. And so, that's what we do while we're here and it's a good place for us to tell you about it. >> I got it. I got to ask you, because one of the things being entrepreneur, you've got to read the tea leaves. One of the secrets of being a co-founder and doing anything entrepreneurial these days is you got to see the future, but then you've got to come back to the present and convince everybody, what's going on. >> Entrepreneurs: Yeah. >> What is the core value proposition? What's the day in the life of a conversation? I mean you're talking to Martians now, like, huh? What's the public cloud it's like, is it like, isn't it just the internet? It's changing. What's the value proposition? What's the conversation like? >> So, the value position for us is that we, you know, we work with our customers to accelerate the sales cycle through cloud based services. So, a lot of our customers are global tier one carriers. So, we're looking to automate their connectivity pricing, and we do that via a cloud-based solution. So it is vital to us. And particularly with having customers all across the globe, being able to sort of deploy cloud-based services makes life much easier. >> I got to ask you, one of the things that we love about cloud is the agilities. >> Yeah. >> Can you talk about the impact of what you guys are offering for the agility side. What's the impact of the consumer, the application developer, what's the impact? >> Clouds have a big play for us, big impact for our customers. So we provide our solution effectively, almost a plug and play for them. So, we do quoting really, really well. You want to know where a network is, you want to know the connectivity, we'll sort that out for you, and we can give you a solution that they can plug into their systems really quickly. In terms of, for us, when we first started, we had servers in data centers and managing software on that, but we moved to Amazon pretty early. And what we now have is, we can spin up a new customer environment in a day, which you know, from previously two, three weeks. So, cloud has been transformational for us and hopefully for our customers as well. >> And you guys target mainly carriers? >> Very much so, yeah. We're very much in the big carrier Telco space. The people that provide the fabric upon which all of this sits. >> Yeah. And then by the way, it's magic and this, it's robust. It's what we need, utilities, it's important. Last mile, obviously, as we all, some people look at it and say, go back decades, rug ban, you know, last mile is always that last nut to crack. 5G's here, the mobile sector is looking at massive growth. You're starting to see the cloud providers recognize that the edge is just another network connection. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> How do you guys see that evolving? What's going on? How do you see that affecting your business, the customers on the market? >> Well, so network, I mean, access is all about getting onto the network, whether you're talking cloud or whatever. So, if you can't get into the network, cloud is nothing. If you can't sort of back haul your 5G, you're stuck. So, what we're seeing is, even with 5G, as it rolls out, as people look to densify their networks, they still need to get all that voice stuff, all that data traffic onto fiber. So, we're seeing a lot of interest there still in knowing where connectivity options are, knowing where the network is. With James also, I mean, that other aspect of access, 10 years ago was all about fiber. But you were just telling me before about how increasingly carriers are using 5G as effectively a router in a box, ship it in by a DPD or FedEx out to a customer. >> Yeah. So typically we'll think about mobile as connecting your mobile phone, but now we're looking at sort of, mobile connecting buildings. And one of the key challenges when you're connecting a building with mobile is what the actual connectivity within the building is. So, often we will see mobile maps that show you that sort of connectivity at sort of, the outside level. But of course, you're actually going to have your infrastructure in the building. So, you need to know what the straight signal strength is there. So, we're actually working with a partner at the moment so that we can identify within a building, what the quality of the signal is. >> I mean, that's class, if you think about like, most people think of, oh, it just drops to the end point and then you've got more network behind it, wireless. You got now to work at home dynamics, IOT devices. So, you guys have the buy-sell side of things going on, you got the carriers buying and selling there. >> Entrepreneurs: Yeah, absolutely. >> And then, SD WAN is a huge market, >> Andrew: Absolutely. >> That's growing and, as well. >> And all of that relies on access. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can talk 5G, you can talk IOT. And of course, those are the exciting, sexy things in the industry. But underpinning all of that is a network. And you mentioned the word before and it's right, utility, you know, maybe it's not the sexy side of things, but you've got to have it, otherwise, nothing else works. >> You know, one of the things we do a lot of cloud cover, we cover all of Amazon shows here coming into Telco, the Telco, digital revolution that's going on here, you can see it. And some people aren't ready for it. Almost like, reminds me of the mainframe days back when I was growing up in college, it's like, oh, I'm not, I don't want to do the mainframe. I'm the new guy, I'm the young kid. I love this, a PC and mini computers. Here, it's the same thing. It's kind of like, okay, I see the cloud, but when you have infrastructure as code, >> Yeah. >> Everything gets fuzzy. >> Yeah. >> I mean, now you're talking about programmability. So, that edge at the application level, some say it's going to be a massive innovation enabler, which is going to change that infrastructure's code, which means that guys like you guys got to be able to provide programmable routes, programmable and, >> Yeah. And APR is our, and the programmability of the network, the whole interplay from whether it's quoting, whether it's ordering, whether it's delivering services, whether it's kind of somebody going into somewhere and saying, "I'd like a, a hundred gig into this building", pressing a button and 15 minutes later, everything rolls together to turn it up, is where the whole industry is going. >> Let's take that for a second. >> Sure. >> Just a mind blowing scenario right there. Sounds simple. >> Yeah. >> Compared to where we were just 15 years ago. >> Yeah. >> That scenario didn't exist. >> No. >> And it's hard. It's not trivial. >> No. >> It's not non-trivial. All right. So what's this mean for customers? Are they like buying this level now, like, are they like, where are they on the spectrum of, you know, buying and the progression of operationalizing their business to be fully robust, network end to end, visibility on workloads to network? >> I would say it often depends where the customer is. So, obviously we deal with global customers and that's one of our big selling points is that, you know, a lot of people are focusing on the US, the Western European market, you know, and the connectivity challenges that they're trying to solve there. Our customers have global customers who are looking for connectivity all throughout world. And often there'll be things like mining companies who don't have fiber going into them. And so, we need to be able to work with our customers and their suppliers to be able to automate everything, because you can only fully quote a network when you've got all the locations back. And if you're waiting for information coming back from Africa or from the former CIS, then you know, you're going to have a problem. And we're working with companies in Africa and Russia, Kazakhstan, at the moment to help them automate everything. >> You know what's interesting, I just, my mind just goes nuts here when thinking about what you guys do, because as people start rolling their own with applications, they're going to need to have this programmability, like almost on demand, they're going to need to have, I want to do a digital TV network, I want to provision something or something's hybrid or at the edge. >> You've got a football game, or you've got something like this where you need capacity, you need it quickly. You need it for an event. >> Yeah, exactly. And 5G's perfect. I mean, how many times we've all been at a soccer game or a football game. It's like, I got bars but I have no back haul. Like we all been there. >> Yeah. >> Why, oh? >> Saturated the network and everyone's doing the same thing. >> The radios working, the back haul's choking. I mean, this is real. >> Absolutely. >> How does, does 5G solve that? I mean, where does that get, how does that get solved? I mean, is it going to be ubiquitous? Truly 5G going to make us all work better? I mean, certainly for the end use of 5G is it provides speed, it provides capacity. And also for the operators it provides being able to get more people onto it. And so, and 5G is not my core strength, but it absolutely will be transformative. What I can comment on is, like you say, for an event like this or the football or anything, the Euros, it ultimately goes into a pipe. So, you've got to make sure that you've got to have the right connectivity there and the right capacity there, from the user's phone, through the towers, all the way into the network, all the way to the data center and back again. So the edge, everything, has to play together to do that, and probably, rolling it out quickly and making sure it's agile and making sure it's fast and making sure it's quick and reliable. That's what needs to all work together. I liked how you said you know, the Expedia of the networks. >> Andrew: Yeah. >> That immediately in my mind says, okay, ease of use. >> Andrew: Yeah. >> From consumption standpoint, what's the next level of growth for you guys? I'm almost imagining is programmability or cloudifying or amplifying it, make it rain. >> Yeah, certainly we are going to continue to push into, yeah, effectively digital transformation in fact, across telecoms is happening. You would think there would be a lot further ahead than it is. It's not. There are a lot of people still quoting, ordering manually. So, we're very much part of that, but certainly the ordering and the provisioning, like we've mentioned, that's a big part, but for the industry, and we're going to hopefully be part of that, or we expect to be part of that. So that's, and making sure that connectivity is there when you need it. You know, I'm here, what's there? A bit like flights, I'd like to fly to New York. Who can do it, how much will it cost? I'll buy that one please. And that's what networks should be as well. >> James, what's your vision on how the customers are progressing in their mindset? Obviously, you've got the blocking and tackling to do, you're in the market. Where are they going with the use case and the application? >> The customers are getting to the stage where they're expecting to be able to go into a portal and turn up services. So, as with many things that we're seeing throughout life today, you can go into an app, you can press a couple of buttons and you can, you can order something. So, that's what they're expecting is to be able to just go and say, I need a hundred mg here, press a few buttons. And in 10 minutes time, the circuit's not only quoted, but it's provisioned. At the moment, there's this sort of a digital divide between those that have the digitization in place and those that don't. And that's the sort of the key that we're trying to sort of help the industry with is the sort of the, the outliers and, and also the main carriers to make sure that it's not a sort of, a digital haves and a digital have-nots. >> I was just going to say that. So, if you have the digital haves and have-nots, is that a function of them just not being operationalized in their digitization? Or is it they're not set up for it or they don't have you guys? What's that have-not side of it? How do they become the haves? >> One of the biggest challenges is actually around the sort of, identifying the connectivity at a particular location. So, in some countries it's very easy to do, like the US, UK, Netherlands. We have nice sort of standard address formatting, and you can identify a building at roof level. And when it comes to turning up connectivity straight away, you want to make sure that you turn up the connectivity to the right building. And that's one of the challenges that we're seeing throughout sort of, some of the Eastern European and the LatAm, the Asian and the African markets. >> I mean, we saw what happened with Amazon instances. You've got spot instances, you get reserved instances, you're starting to see that mindset. That's a SAS mindset. >> Yeah. >> That's kind of where things are going. Is that, you guys see the same thing here or is it different? >> Yeah. Well, certainly at the enterprise space, they tend to make decisions over a longer scale. So there, maybe not so much that you sign contracts in a year's term et cetera, but yeah, certainly as a provider, a SAS provider, using all those things, the ability to to tune your expenses, tune your costs, even your resource, you know, you're turning up servers by the hour, by the minute is a big thing. And it takes a mindset change for us and our customers. >> If you don't mind me asking, how long have you guys been doing business as co-founders, when did it start? What was the guiding principle? How do you guys look back now? >> James and I met working for Verizon many years ago. You might've heard of them. And, we sort of did what we do now, in as much as James ran the commercial side of things, I ran the software side of things and we saw that connectivity was a universal problem. And so we saw our opportunity. We went out, we started LastMileXchange. We pivoted once or twice, still in the same space, but we eventually realized that where we are now was what the industry needed. And that's where we've been pushing now for quite a few years. >> I want to give you guys a lot of credit and a lot of props, congratulations. I think, you know, the digital divide has been a broadband challenge for many, many years and decades. Now, you've got that urban divide where people don't have access. And I heard stories during the pandemic that people had access in the region, but couldn't get it to the home, affordability, access, devices. These are new issues, the digital divide, they have connectivity options. >> Andrew: Yeah. >> But it's not really clear yet. So, you're starting to see a lot more of that going on. Of course, the rural areas. >> Andrew: Yeah. >> I live out in the countryside on a farm. So, I'm quite used to their challenges of connectivity. You know, when I first moved into my house, I ended up having to get to way satellite broadband and things have improved now. But when we're talking about 5G, you have people in London, they have 5G. 5G is something that I'm not going to see for three, four years probably. >> Globally, it'll democratize access because like we were saying, we're sitting in an enterprise. You can send out a rooter or a router with a SIM card in it. I mean, you can give a kid a mobile phone in the middle of, you know, Kenya, and he can have access to the world through the internet. So, you know, that increased capacity, that increased densification of networks. Okay, they're not all going to be on 5G today. James hasn't got 5G and he only lives 30 minutes out of London. But 3G, 4G, I think the gentlemen on one of the keynotes was talking there about 3G Plus. You know, effectively, that's going to roll out. The 5G's are going to be in New Yorks and London, but, >> Like, it's going to be bring your own G to your house soon. And I think this space ops is going to be great. And I think overall, just overall, the challenges and the topologies, you're going to start to see diversity in the network topology, and actually it's going to explode. >> Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. >> Going to be super exciting. Well, again, I think you guys are under something big. I think this idea of sasifying, making things programmable, infrastructure as code is going to be pretty big. So, thanks for coming on. And what's your take, real quick, of Cloud City. >> It's been great. We've just walked in. We both said, as we came in, we came in yesterday to set up and we were really blown away and the rest of our team arrived today and they were very impressed as well. I was going to say Telco D on the team, have done a really impressive job. >> I think you have to come here and see it to believe it because when we walked in, it was just like, this place is stunning. >> Awesome. Well that's the cube coverage, we're rocking and rolling here. We're going back to the studio to see Adam and the team. Back to you.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Santa Clara, California, it's theCUBE covering Open Networking Summit 2017. Brought to you by The Linux Foundation. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are in Santa Clara, California at the Open Networking Summit 2017. Really happy to be joined by my co-host for the next couple of days, Scott Raynovich. And we've been talking to a lot of providers and technical people, but now we want to talk to customers. We love talking to customers, and we're really excited to have Rashesh Jethi. He's the SVP, Head of R&D for the Americas for Amadeus, which is a big travel company. Welcome. >> Thank you so much, Jeff. Thank you, Scott. >> So like I said, we'd love to talk to a practitioner. So you're out on the frontlines, you're seeing all this talk of software-defined and software-defined networking. From your point of view, how real is it, where are we on this journey? What do you see from your point of view? >> Super real. Have you searched for a flight lately? >> I have searched for a flight. >> Excellent. I'm proud to tell you that your flight search very likely was powered by Amadeus, and it's running on a software-defined data center completely. So this stuff is real. We are, I believe, one of the first companies who have actually taken this from what was a very strong academic kind of research project onto this start-up ecosystem, but we're actually out there deploying it, running real world business, using a very purposeful and deliberate software-defined strategy. >> And it's interesting because you said before we got on camera that you guys are actually very active participants in the open source movement and development of this stuff. You're not just kind of a participant waiting in the wings for this stuff to get developed. >> I mean absolutely, and to me, that's one of the reasons which if you're serious about open source, you have to use it. You can't just talk about it. You can't just say it looks like a nice idea. You have to get out there and get your hands dirty and do it. But the other thing also is you have to contribute back. I think that's a big tenet of the open source community. And we all and certainly the company, we grew up and we've seen tech evolve through the ages. And a big part, especially in the last 10 years or so, has been the open source movement, and it's contributing back. It's one of the reasons I'm here. It's one of the reasons the conference organizers invited me, is to actually talk about how we use open source and software-defined strategy for our technology. >> That's cool. So where do you run this software? You run it in private cloud, public cloud? Do you guys build your own data centers? How do you run it? >> Quick history lesson and our quick history-- >> Let's back up. First off, where is Amadeus today for people that aren't familiar with the company? >> We are actually a 30-year-old company. We are celebrating our 30th birthday this year. The company was started in the late '80s as a consortium between four leading European airlines, Lufthansa, Air France, Iberia, and Scandinavian. So we started off, which was very typical at that time, as a mainframe shop, and that's where a lot of our core systems were built. We're a big provider of technology in general to the travel industry even though we were founded by airlines. So to put it in perspective, we carry about 95% of the world's scheduled commercial seats, airline seats, on our platform. >> 95%. >> 95%, so we work with the world's-- >> Are available to purchase. Obviously, 95% of the purchases don't go through your system. >> Right. They are available. They are used by over 90,000 travel agents, retail travel agents, corporate travel, online travel. And we work with over, like I said, 700 airlines, work for their inventory. So chances are if you travel on an airplane, very good chances that our software was used to make the reservation. We also have airline ID systems and hotel ID systems, and we work with the airports. And this is where we do departure control, flight management, baggage reconciliation, a lot of the back end processes. And we started the company, essentially runs as we write our own software. We are offered as a service from day one, so we are one of the oldest software service providers in the industry. And obviously, when we got started to do that, you had to own your own infrastructure. So we are pretty good at it. We have very strong kind of technical chops. We have a large data center outside Munich Airport and a bunch of smaller data centers all over the world. And what we're doing now is really very deliberately making the journey towards a cloud, both our private cloud, so taking our own infrastructure, virtualizing it, and making it available as a service for our own applications, and then where it makes sense, to leverage public cloud infrastructures where they are available. >> So different apps in different clouds, is that-- >> Different apps in different clouds based on customer preferences. The core reservation booking engines, they are in our own private cloud because we do have a lot of regulatory security, privacy considerations. So that stuff, we keep kind of close where we can keep a very watchful eye on it, but there are a lot of transactions we are also talking about. The volume of searches has grown up, right? Obviously, Google has seen a lot of search volume. If you look at our business, it used to be when you wanted to book a flight, you'd go to a travel agent and be able to look at a bunch of flight options and you'd pick one. About 20 years ago, you call it the look to book ratios. You'd look at 10 to 20 options and you'd book one. You want to guess what it is today? >> The look to book ratio was 20 to one. That's got to be way higher. That's got to be 80 to one. >> It's more like 1,000 to one. >> 1,000 to one. >> 1,000 to one. It's partly people like you and I who have a spare moment and have a vacation in mind, and we are looking at options. But keep in mind, anything that you search, it has to come into our systems. We have to configure the journey. We have to price it. We have to make sure it's available before we offer it up to you, right? So it's very transaction and computing intensive even before it touches any of the back ends where we do core kind of booking and passenger processing. And so to handle that scale, those are the kind of very logical applications that make sense for the public cloud. And those are the ones that we've looked to move. Certainly, for customers, we are a global company. We have customers all over the world. Some customers want to have some of these systems closer to their geographic location. So we look at all use cases kind of. >> That's amazing to think of. These things have so changed behavior and the way that we interact. I assume that 20 to one was a function because you would sit down. Now you sit down at your desk, time to book that flight, and maybe you don't get it done that day. You come back two or three times. But as you said, now it's grabbing little bits of time throughout the day whenever we can. But do you get paid on a regular subscription, or do you get paid on the transaction? Has that just increased your overhead, whatever the ratio 20 to 1,000 is? >> Absolutely, no, our business model has been very consistent from day one. We get paid on the number of bookings we make and the number of people that board aircraft, I mean roughly speaking. There are smaller lines of businesses, but those are our two main revenue drivers. So we see a lot of transaction volume upfront, but it doesn't translate to a booking which logically, it won't. Yes, that's noise or revenue for us, but we still have to service that volume because that's eventually, the funnels just gotten wider. And so it makes sense to do that in the most cost efficient manner but without compromising quality, without compromising speed. I mean if you're like me, if you have to wait for more than two or three seconds, you're like, "Ah, I'm moving on." >> Oh, two seconds. It's milliseconds, isn't it? >> Absolutely. >> And by the way, I still don't always find the flight I want. So where are those extra flights? Can you provide those for your service? >> Jeff: That extra 5% those are under. >> That's very different. It's got nothing to do with open source and kind of what we're talking about here, but a lot of what you're doing in there from an engineering perspective is just looking at, for example, machine learning algorithms. And what you said is actually a very common complaint, is how do I find kind of the right sort of flights. And more importantly, if you have certain preferences with airports or airlines or loyalty programs or time of day, how do I provide you context-sensitive results? We are doing a lot of kind of core R&D work for that, but our customers are doing amazing work as well. KAYAK is one of our customers, very close to our offices in the Boston area, and they do pretty amazing work in terms of getting their context right and then applying machine learning technologies and artificial intelligence. It's very, very early days but very exciting, very promising. >> One of the cool features I like are these fare alerts. I don't know if you use them. It tells you, it predicts this is going to go up. You better book now, wait. Do you guys do that sort of thing too? >> Our customers do that. We have a very simple model. Our customers are travel agencies, online, American Express, Expedia, metasearches like KAYAK, Skyscanner, et cetera, the airlines themselves whose products we host in our system and we sell. So a lot of our engineering work is learning to offering kind of core innovation so that they can offer products for people like you and me, their customers, the best products out there. So we focus on enabling them. And then at an operational level, we try to do it in the most efficient manner and the most future proof that we can think of. >> What about security? I mean it sounds like a lot of sensitive data changing hands here, right, where are people going to sit on an airplane, where are they going. You must have incredible security demands on your data now. >> Yes. (Jeff and Scott laugh) I mean you understand, obviously, it's paramount to us. And the good news is, look, we've been in this business for 30 years. We have really deep domain expertise in that. And also, you'll understand why I wouldn't want to talk too much about what we do and how we do it, but absolutely, that's one of the-- >> Scott: You just lock it down. >> Prime drivers of everything we think all the way from application design to things like the infrastructure planning and design to the physical level. I mean everything you can think of and probably a couple of things you may not think of. >> Hopefully a few things we didn't think of. So where do you go next? It sounds like you're enabling a lot of the innovation on your partner's side. You just mentioned KAYAK and people writing some of the machine learning and AI algorithms to help the end traveler find what they're looking for. Where are you guys concentrating? You said you've been at it for 30 years. What are some of the next big hurdles that you're looking to take down? >> It's wonderful, I think, being close to our customers. And one of the reasons I'm in Boston, we are a European company. We are actually headquartered in Madrid. Our core engineering team, our central engineering team is in France. The reason I'm in Boston and my team is in Boston is we've started doing a lot of business here in North America, and we try to stay very close to our customers. And when you listen carefully, and that's why we have two ears and one mouth is to hopefully try to listen a lot, you do see their pain points, you do see where they are going with kind of their business. And it gives us a chance to have a front row seat in designing new products that they can use. So to me, it's kind of two pronged. One is we want to offer the best technology we can to our customers at the best price point we can. And obviously, by now, you've figured out it's mission critical stuff has to always be on. Keeping those kind of boundary conditions in mind, you want to be the best technology provider, and then we want to innovate. So one of the things I'm seeing at this conference, there's a lot of friends from the service providers who are talking about 5G technology. And so with connected cars, with virtual reality, I mean these are all trends that are going to impact us as travelers in a positive way. And so we have a dedicated innovation team across all our business lines. We do a lot of work with academic institutions, with ETH in Zurich, with MIT here, close to my office in Boston. And there's just a chockfull of possibilities in terms of what can be done. >> All right, I'll give you the last word, impressions on the show. What do you get out of a show like this? Why is it important for you to come? >> It's amazing. I mean this morning, Martin Casado was there. He's called kind of the grand daddy of software-defined networking (mumbles). >> He's not that old yet, but he's going to like seeing that clip. (laughs) >> It's true. I read that at The Guardian. It was on one of the newspapers. But the fact is we used NSX for virtualization in our entire data center, and we have close to 20,000 infrastructure devices. All our computers are virtualized, 100% of it, and it's all using NSX from VMware, right? Now this was a sort of brilliant idea by an extremely intelligent and persuasive graduate student at Stanford 15 years ago that is, as he announced this morning, is a billion-dollar business today, right? And we are actually using the technology, and it's very real, to process all of this. So it's great to be able to see what people like him, I mean from Google, he's a great partner of ours. We use Kubernetes for kind of the container deployment strategy for our cloud network. We hear him speak about what they're thinking about in terms of investments and how the network is going to essentially drive the movement of data analytics. It's just phenomenal to get the top leadership. I'm obviously very honored and privileged to be presenting to this audience and to share our thoughts and what we're doing and just to see a lot of the buzz around here and what wonderful ideas are happening in the Valley. There's so much action, as always, going on. >> Great, great, great summary. Well, glad you could take a few minutes to stop by theCUBE. >> Completely my pleasure. Thank you very much. Great meeting you, and have a great rest of the show. >> All right. He's Rashesh, he's Scott, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE from Open Networking Summit 2017 in Santa Clara. We'll be back after this short break. Thanks for watching. (upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Robert Herjavec. >> People obviously know you from Shark Tank, but The Herjavec Group has been really laser focused on cybersecurity. >> I actually helped to bring upon Checkpoint to (mumbles) firewalls, URL filtering, that kind of stuff. >> But you're also...