>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of biz ops Manifesto unveiled Brought to you by Biz Ops Coalition >>Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeffrey here with the Q. Come to you from our Palo Alto studios today for a big big reveal. We're excited to be here. It's the biz. Opps manifesto, unveiling things been in the works for a while and we're excited. Have our next guest one of the really the powers behind this whole effort. And he's joining us from Boston. It's surge Lucio, the vice president and general manager Enterprise software division that Broadcom Serge, Great to see you. >>Good to see. Oh, absolutely. So you've been >>in this business for a very long time? You've seen a lot of changes in technology. What is the biz Ops manifesto? What is this coalition all about? Why do we need this today in in 2020? >>Yeah, so? So I've been in this business for close to 25 years, writes about 25 years ago, the agile manifesto was created, and the goal of the actual manifesto was was really to address the uncertainty around software development and the inability to predict the effort to build software. And if you if you roll that kind of 20 years later and if you look at the current state of the industry, the Product Project Management Institute estimates that we're wasting about a million dollars every 20 seconds in digital transformation initiatives that do not deliver on business results. In fact, we we recently served, uh, the number of executives in partnership with Harvard Business Review and 77% off. Those executives think that one of the key challenges that they have is really at the collaboration between business and I t. And that that's been kind of a case for almost 20 years now. Eso the key challenge we're faced with is really that we need a new approach. And many of the players in the industry, including ourselves, have been using different terms. Right? Some are. We are talking about value stream management. Some are talking about software delivery management. If you look at the site reliability engineering movement, in many ways it embodies a lot of this kind of concepts and principles. So we believe that it became really imperative for us to crystallize around kind of one concept and so In many ways, the Bezos concept and the bazaars manifesto are out, bringing together a number of ideas which have been emerging in the last five years or so and defining the key values and principles to finally helped these organizations truly transform and become digital businesses. And so the hope is that by joining our forces and defining kind of key principles and values, we can help kind of the industry not just by, you know, providing them with support, but also tools and consulting that is required for them to truly achieve that kind of transformation, that everybody's >>right, right? So co vid Now we're six months into it, approximately seven months into it. Um, a lot of pain, a lot of bad stuff still happening. We've got a ways to go. But one of the things that on the positive side, right and you've seen all the memes and social media is a driver of digital transformation and a driver of change. Because we have this light switch moment in the middle of March and there was no more planning, there was no more conversation. You suddenly got remote. Workforce is everybody's working from home, and you gotta go, right, So the reliance on these tools increases dramatically. But I'm curious, you know, kind of short of the beginnings of this effort and short of kind of covert, which, you know, came along unexpectedly. I mean, what were those inhibitors? Because we've been making software for a very long time. Write the software development community has has adopted kind of rapid change and and iterative delivery and and sprints what was holding back the connection with the business side to make sure that those investments were properly aligned with outcomes. >>Well, so So that you have to understand that I ts is kind of its own silos. And traditionally it has been treated as a cost center within large organizations and not as a value center. And so as a result, kind of the traditional dynamic between the I t. And the business is basically one of a kind of supplier to to kind of a business on. Do you know if you could go back? Thio? I think Elon Musk a few years ago, basically, at these concepts, off the machines to build the machines and you went as far as saying that the machines or the production line is actually the product, so meaning that the core of the innovation is really about building kind of the engine to deliver on the value. And so, in many ways, way have missed on this shift from, um, kind of I t becoming this kind of value center within the enterprises and any told about culture now culture is is the sum total of behaviors and the realities that if you look at the i t, especially in the last decade with the agile with develops with hybrid infrastructures, it's it's way more volatile today than it was 10 years ago. And so the when you start to look at the velocity of the data, the volume of data, the variety of data to analyze kind of the system, um, it's very challenging for I t. To actually even understand and optimize its own processes, let alone to actually include business as kind of an integral part of kind of a delivery chain. And so it's both kind of a combination off culture which is required a za well as tools, right to be able to start to bring together all these data together and then given the volume variety velocity of the data. We have to apply some core technologies which have only really, truly emerging last 5 to 10 years around machine learning and knowledge. And so it's really kind of a combination of those freaks which are coming together today. Truly, organizations get to the next level, >>right? Right. So let's talk about the manifesto. Let's talk about the coalition, the Biz Ops Coalition. I just like that you put down these really simple you know, kind of straightforward core values. You guys have four core values that you're highlighting, you know, business outcomes over individual projects and outputs, trust and collaboration over side load teams and organizations, data driven decisions. What you just talked about, you know, over opinions and judgment on learned, responded Pivot. I mean, surgery sounds like pretty basic stuff, right? I mean, aren't isn't everyone working to these values already? And I think you touched on it on culture, right? Trust and collaboration, data driven decisions. I mean, these air fundamental ways that people must run their business today or the person that's across the street that's doing it is gonna knock him right off the block. >>Yeah, so that's very true. But so I'll mention the novel survey. We need, uh, think about six months ago and twist in partnership with an industry analyst, and we serve it again. The number of 80 executives to understand how many were tracking business outcomes somebody you have, the software executives I T executives were tracking business outcomes, and the there were. Less than 15% of these executives were actually tracking the outcomes of the software delivery. And you see that every day, right? So in my own teams, for instance, we've bean adopting a lot of these core principles in the last year or so, and we've uncovered that 16% of our resource is we're basically aligned around initiatives which were not strategic for us. I take, you know, another example. For instance, one of our customers in the airline industry uncovered, for instance, that a number of that they had software issues that led to people searching for flights and not returning any kind of availability. And yet, you know, the I T teams whether its operations software involvement were completely oblivious to that because they were completely blindsided to it. And so the connectivity between the in words metrics that Turkey is using, whether it's database I, time cycle, time or whatever metric we use in I t are typically completely divorced from the business metrics. And so at its core, it's really about starting to align the business metrics with with the the software delivered change. Right, this, uh, this system, which is really a core differentiator for these organizations. It's about connecting those two things and and starting Thio infuse some of the actual culture and principles. Um, that's emerged from the software side into the business side. Of course, the lien movement and over movements have started to change some of these dynamics on the business side. And and so I think this thesis is the moment where we were starting to see kind of the imperative to transform. Now Cuvee the obviously has been a key driver for that. The the technology is right to start to be able to leave data together and really kind of also the cultural shifts through agile fruit develops through the SRE movement, fueling business transformation. All of these things are coming together and that are really creating kind of conditions. For the Bezos Manifesto to exist. >>So, uh, Clayton Christensen, great hard professor innovator's dilemma might still my all time favorite business books, you know, talks about how difficult it is for in comments to react to to disruptive change, right, because they're always working on incremental change because that's what their customers are asking for. And there's a good our ally when you talk about, you know, companies not measuring the right thing. I mean, clearly, I t has some portion of their budget that has to go to keeping the lights on, right, that that's always the case. But hopefully that's a an ever decreasing percentage of their total activity. So, you know what should people be measuring? I mean, what are kind of the new metrics? Um, in biz ops that drive people to be looking at the right things, measuring the right things and subsequently making the right decisions investment decisions on whether they should do, you know, move Project a along or Project B. >>So there are really two things, right? So So I think what you are talking about this portfolio management, investment management, right and which, which is a key challenge, right in my own experience, right driving strategy or large scale kind of software organization for years. It's very difficult to even get kind of a base data as to who is doing what. Uh, I mean, some of our largest customers were engaged with right now are simply trying to get a very simple answer, which is how many people do I have, and that specific initiative at any point in time and just tracking that information is extremely difficult. So and and again, back to Product Project Management Institute, they have estimated that on average, I two organizations have anywhere between 10 to 20% of their resource is focused on initiatives which are not strategically aligned. So so that's one dimensional portfolio management. I think the key aspect, though that we are we're really keen on is really around kind of the alignment of the business metrics to the ICTY metrics eso I'll use kind of two simple examples, right and my background is around quality and I have always believed that fitness for purpose is really kind of a key, um, a philosophy, if you will. And so if you start to think about quality is fitness for purpose, you start to look at it from a customer point of view, right? And fitness for purpose for core banking application or mobile application are different, right? So the definition of a business value that you're trying to achieve is different on DSO the And yet if you look at our I t operations are operating there are using kind of the same type of kind of inward metrics like a database off time or a cycle time or what is my point? Velocity, right? And s o the challenge really is this inward facing metrics that the I t. Is using which are divorced from ultimately the outcome. And so, you know, if I'm if I'm trying to build a poor banking application, my core metric is likely going to be up time, right? If I'm if I'm trying to build a mobile application or maybe a social mobile app, it's probably going to be engagement. And so what you want is for everybody across I t to look at these metric and what part of the metrics withing the software delivery chain which ultimately contribute to that business metric in some cases, cycle time, maybe completely relevant. Right again. My core banking up. Maybe I don't care about cycle time. And so it's really about aligning those metrics and be able to start to differentiate. Um, the key challenge you mentioned around the around the disruption that we see is or the investors is. Dilemma now is really around the fact that many idea organizations are essentially applying the same approaches for innovation right for basically scrap work, Then they would apply to kind of over more traditional projects. And so, you know, there's been a lot of talk about to speed I t. And yes, it exists. But in reality are are really organizations truly differentiating out of the operate their their projects and products based on the outcomes that they're trying to achieve? And and this is really where bizarre is trying to affect. >>I love that. You know, again, it doesn't seem like brain surgery, but focus on the outcomes right and and it's horses for courses. As you said this project, you know what you're measuring and how you define success isn't necessarily the same as it is on this other project. So let's talk about some of the principles we talked about the values, but you know I think it's interesting that that that the bishops coalition, you know, just basically took the time to write these things down, and they don't seem all that super insightful. But I guess you just got to get him down and have them on paper and have it in front of your face. But I want to talk about, you know, one of the key ones which you just talked about, which is changing requirements right and working in a dynamic situation, which is really what's driven. You know this, the software to change and software development because, you know, if you're in a game app and your competitors comes out with a new blue sword, you've got to come out with a new blue swords. So whether you have that on your compound wall, we're not. So it's It's really this embracing of the speed of change and and and making that you know the rule, not the exception. I think that's a phenomenon. And the other one you talked about his data right and that today's organizations generate more data than humans can process. So informed decisions must be generated by machine learning and ai and you know and the big data thing with a dupe you know, started years ago. But we are seeing more and more that people are finally figuring it out that it's not just big data on It's not even generic machine learning artificial intelligence. But it's applying those particular data sets and that particular types of algorithms to a specific problem to your point, to try to actually reach an objective. Whether that's, you know, increasing the your average ticket or, you know, increasing your check out rate with with with shopping carts that don't get left behind and these types of things. So it's a really different way to think about the world in the good old days, probably when you got started, when we had big Giant you know, M R D s and P R. D s and sat down and coded for two years and and came out with a product release and hopefully not too many patches subsequently to that. Yeah, >>it's interesting right again, back to one of these service that we did with about 600 the ICTY executives and we we purposely designed those questions to be pretty open. Andi and one of them was really wrong requirements, and it was really around. Kind of. What is the best approach? What is your preferred approach towards requirements? And if I remember correctly, Over 80% of the ICTY executives said that the best approach their preferred approach is for requires to be completely defined before self for the bombing starts, let me pause there. We're 20 years after the agile manifesto, right, and for 80% of these idea executives to basically claimed that the best approach is for requires to be fully baked before solved before software development starts basically shows that we still have a very major issue again. Our apotheosis in working with many organizations is that the key challenges really the boundary between business and I t. Which is still very much contract based. If you look at the business side, they basically are expecting for I t deliver on time on budget, Right? But what is the incentive for I t to actually deliver on the business outcomes, right? How often is I t measured on the business outcomes and not on S L. A or on a budget secretary, and so that that's really the fundamental shift that we need to. We really need to drive up to send industry andi way. Talk about kind of this dis imperative for organizations to operate. That's one. And back to the, you know, various doors still, Um, no. The key difference between these large organization is really kind of a. If you look at the amount of capital investment that they can put into pretty much anything, why are they losing compared Thio? You know, startups. What? Why is it that more than 40% off personal loans today are issued not by your traditional brick and mortar banks, but by start ups? Well, the reason, Yes, it's the traditional culture of doing incremental changes, not disrupting ourselves, which Christenson covered at length. But it's also the inability to really fundamentally change kind of dynamic between business I t and partner, right, to to deliver on a specific business. All >>right, I love that. That's a great That's a great summary and in fact, getting ready for this interview. I saw you mentioning another thing where you know the problem with the agile development is that you're actually now getting mawr silos because you have all these autonomous people working you know, kind of independently. So it's even harder challenge for for the business leaders toe, as you said to know what's actually going on. But But, sir, I want to close um, and talk about the coalition eso clearly These are all great concepts, these air concepts. You want to apply to your business every day. Why the coalition? Why, you know, take these concepts out to a broader audience, including your competition and the broader industry to say, Hey, we as a group need to put a stamp of approval on these concepts. These values these principles. It's >>so first, I think we we want everybody to realize that we are all talking about the same things, the same concepts e think we were all from our own different vantage point, realizing that things have to change and again back to you know, whether it's value stream management or site reliability, engineering or biz Opps we're all kind of using slightly different languages on DSO. I think one of the important aspects of these apps is for us, all of us, whether we're talking about consulting actual transformation experts, whether we're talking about vendors right to provide sort of tools and technologies or these larger enterprises to transform for all of us to basically have kind of a reference that lets us speak around kind of in a much more consistent way. The second aspect is for to me is for these concepts to start to be embraced not just by us or trying or vendors, um, system integrators, consulting firms, educators, spot leaders but also for some of our own customers to start to become evangelists of their own in the industry. So we are. Our objective with the coalition is to be pretty, pretty broad, Um, and our hope is by by starting to basically educate our joint customers or our partners that we can start to really foster disbelievers and and start to really change some of dynamics. So we're very pleased that if you look at what some of the companies which have joined the the manifesto eso, we have vendors such as stashed up or advance or pager duty, for instance, or even planned you one of my direct competitors but also fought leaders like Tom Davenport or or Cap Gemini or smaller firms like Business Agility Institute or Agility Elf on DSO our goal really is to start to bring together. For three years, people have bean LP. Large organizations do digital transformation. Vendors were providing the technologies that many of these organizations used to deliver all these digital transformation and for all of us to start to provide the kind of education, support and tools that the industry need. >>That's great search. And, you know, congratulations to you and the team. I know this has been going on for a while putting all this together, getting people to sign onto the manifesto of putting the coalition together and finally today getting to unveil it to the world in a little bit more of a public opportunity. So again, you know, really good values, really simple principles, something that that shouldn't have to be written down. But it's nice because it is. And now you can print it out and stick it on your wall. So thank you for for sharing the story. And again, congrats to you on the team. >>Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. >>My pleasure. Alright, He surge If you wanna learn more about the bizarre manifesto goto biz Opps manifesto dot or greed it and you can sign it and you can stay here from or coverage on. The Cube of the bizarre manifesto unveiled. Thanks for watching. See you next time.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of BizOps Manifesto Unveiled, brought to you by BizOps Coalition. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE for our ongoing coverage of the big unveil. It's the BizOps Manifesto Unveil and we're going to start that again. >> From the top. >> Three. >> Crew Member: Yeah, from the top. Little bleep bleep bleep, there we go. >> Manifesto. >> Crew Member: Second time's the charm, coming to you in five, four, three, two. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE coming to you from our Palo Alto studios today for a big, big reveal. We're excited to be here. It's the BizOps Manifesto Unveiling. Things have been in the works for a while and we're excited to have our next guest, one of the really the powers behind this whole effort and he's joining us from Boston. It's Serge Lucio, the Vice President and General Manager, Enterprise Software Division at Broadcom. Serge, great to see you. >> Good to see you, Jeff, Glad to be here. >> Absolutely. So, you've been in this business for a very long time, you've seen a lot of changes in technology. What is the BizOps Manifesto? What is this coalition all about? Why do we need this today in 2020? >> Yeah, so I've been in this business for close to 25 years, right? So, about 20 years ago, the Agile Manifesto was created. And the goal of the Agile Manifesto was really to address the uncertainty around software development and the inability to predict the effort to build software. And if you roll back kind of 20 years later and if you look at the current state of the industry, the Project Management Institute estimates that we're wasting about a million dollars every 20 seconds in digital transformation initiatives that do not deliver on business results. In fact, we recently surveyed a number of executives in partnership with Harvard Business Review and 77% of those executives think that one of the key challenges that they have is really at the collaboration between business and IT. And that's been kind of the case for almost 20 years now. So, the key challenge we're faced with is really that we need a new approach. And many of the players in the industry, including ourselves, have been using different terms, right? Some are talking about value stream management, some are talking about software delivery management. If you look at the Site Reliability Engineering movement, in many ways, it embodies a lot of these kind of concepts and principles. So, we believe that it became really imperative for us to crystallize around that one concept. And so, in many ways, the BizOps concept and the BizOps Manifesto are around bringing together a number of ideas which have been emerging in the last five years or so and defining the key values and principles to finally help these organizations truly transform and become digital businesses. And so, the hope is that by joining our forces and defining the key principles and values, we can help the industry, not just by providing them with support, but also the tools and consulting that is required for them to truly achieve the kind of transformation that everybody is seeking. >> Right, right. So, COVID, now, we're six months into it approximately, seven months into it, a lot of pain, a lot of bad stuff still happening, we've got two ways to go. But one of the things that on the positive side, right, and you seen all the memes in social media is a driver of digital transformation and a driver of change 'cause we had this light switch moment in the middle of March and there was no more planning, there was no more conversation, you suddenly got remote workforces, everybody's working from home and you got to go, right? So, the reliance on these tools increases dramatically. But I'm curious kind of short of the beginnings of this effort and short of kind of COVID which came along unexpectedly, I mean, what were those inhibitors 'cause we've been making software for a very long time, right? The software development community has adopted kind of rapid change and iterative delivery and sprints, what was holding back the connection with the business side to make sure that those investments were properly aligned with outcomes? >> Well, you have to understand that IT is kind of its own silos and traditionally, IT has been treated as a cost center within large organizations and not as a value center. And so as a result, kind of the traditional dynamic between IT and the business is basically one of kind of supplier up to kind of a business. And if you go back to I think Elon Musk a few years ago basically had these concepts of the machines to build the machines and he went as far as saying that the machines or the production line is actually the product. So, meaning that the core of the innovation is really about building kind of the engine to deliver on the value. And so, in many ways, we have missed on this shift from kind of IT becoming this kind of value center within the enterprises. And it's all about culture. Now, culture is the sum total of behaviors and the reality is that if you look at IT, especially in the last decade, with Agile, with DevOps, with hybrid infrastructures, it's way more volatile today than it was 10 years ago. And so, when you start to look at the velocity of the data, the volume of data, the variety of data to analyze the system, it's very challenging for IT to actually even understand and optimize its own processes, let alone to actually include business as kind of an integral part of a delivery chain. And so, it's both kind of a combination of culture, which is required, as well as tools, right? To be able to start to bring together all these data together. And then, given the volume, variety, velocity of the data, we have to apply some core technologies, which have only really truly emerged in the last five to 10 years around machine learning and analytics. And so, it's really kind of a combination of those things, which are coming together today to really help organizations kind of get to the next level. >> Right, right. So, let's talk about the manifesto. Let's talk about the coalition, the BizOps Coalition. I just like that you put down these really simple kind of straightforward core values. You guys have four core values that you're highlighting, business outcomes over individual projects and outputs, trust and collaboration over siloed teams and organizations, data driven decisions, what you just talked about, over opinions and judgment and learn to respond and pivot. I mean, Serge, these sounds like pretty basic stuff, right? I mean, isn't everyone working to these values already? And I think you touched on it, on culture, right? Trust and collaboration, data driven decisions. I mean, these are fundamental ways that people must run their business today or the person that's across the street that's doing it is going to knock them right off their block. >> Yeah, so that's very true. So, I'll mention another survey we did I think about six months ago. It was in partnership with an industry analyst. And we surveyed, again, a number of IT executives to understand how many were tracking business outcomes, how many of these software executives, IT executives were tracking business outcomes. And there were less than 15% of these executives who were actually tracking the outcomes of the software delivery. And you see that every day, right? So, in my own teams, for instance, we've been adopting a lot of these core principles in the last year or so. And we've uncovered that 16% of our resources were basically aligned around initiatives which were not strategic for us. I take another example. For instance, one of our customers in the airline industry uncovered, for instance, that a number of... That they had software issues that led to people searching for flights and not returning any kind of availability. And yet, the IT teams, whether it's operations or software development, were completely oblivious to that because they were completely blindsided to it. And so, the connectivity between the inwards metrics that IT is using, whether it's database uptime, cycle time or whatever metric we use in IT, are typically completely divorced from the business metrics. And so, at its core, it's really about starting to align the business metrics with the software delivery chain, right? This system which is really a core differentiator for these organizations. It's about connecting those two things and starting to infuse some of the Agile culture and principles that emerge from the software side into the business side. Of course, the Lean movement and other movements have started to change some of these dynamic on the business side. And so, I think this is the moment where we are starting to see kind of the imperative to transform now, COVID obviously has been a key driver for that. The technology is right to start to be able to weave data together and really kind of also the cultural shifts through Agile, through DevOps, through the SRE movement, through Lean business transformation. All these things are coming together and are really creating kind of conditions for the BizOps Manifesto to exist. So, Clayton Christensen, great Harvard Professor, "Innovator's Dilemma", still my all-time favorite business book, talks about how difficult it is for incumbents to react to disruptive change, right? Because they're always working on incremental change 'cause that's what their customers are asking for and there's a good ROI.' When you talk about companies not measuring the right thing, I mean, clearly, IT has some portion of their budget that has to go to keeping the lights on, right? That's always the case, but hopefully, that's an ever decreasing percentage of their total activity. So, what should people be measuring? I mean, what are kind of the new metrics in BizOps that drive people to be looking at the right things, measuring the right things and subsequently making the right decisions, investment decisions, on whether they should move project A along or project B? >> So, there are really two things, right? So, I think what you were talking about is portfolio management, investment management, right? And which is a key challenge, right? In my own experience, right? Driving strategy or a large scale kind of software organization for years, it's very difficult to even get kind of a base data as to who's doing what. I mean, some of our largest customers we're engaged with right now are simply trying to get a very simple answer, which is, how many people do I have in that specific initiative at any point in time and just tracking down information is extremely difficult. And again, back to the Project Management Institute, they have estimated that on average, IT organizations have anywhere between 10 to 20% of their resources focused on initiatives which are not strategically aligned. So, that's one dimension on portfolio management. I think the key aspect though, that's we're really keen on is really around kind of the alignment of a business metrics to the IT metrics. So, I'll use kind of two simple examples, right? And my background is around quality and I've always believed that fitness for purpose is really kind of a key philosophy, if you will. And so, if you start to think about quality as fitness for purpose, you start to look at it from a customer point of view, right? And fitness for purpose for a core banking application or mobile application are different, right? So, the definition of a business value that you're trying to achieve is different. And yet, if you look at our IT operations are operating, they were using kind of a same type of inward metrics, like a database uptime or a cycle time or what is my point velocity, right? And so, the challenge really is this inward facing metrics that the IT is using which are divorced from ultimately the outcome. And so, if I'm trying to build a core banking application, my core metric is likely going to be uptime, right? If I'm trying to build a mobile application or maybe a social mobile app, it's probably going to be engagement. And so, what you want is for everybody across IT to look at these metric and what are the metrics within the software delivery chain which ultimately contribute to that business metric? In some cases, cycle time may be completely irrelevant, right? Again, my core banking app, maybe I don't care about cycle time. And so, it's really about aligning those metrics and be able to start to differentiate. The key challenge you mentioned around the disruption that we see is or the investor's dilemma is really around the fact that many IT organizations are essentially applying the same approaches for innovation, right? For basically scrap work than they would apply to kind of other more traditional projects. And so, there's been a lot of talk about two-speed IT. And yes, it exists, but in reality, are really organizations truly differentiating how they operate their projects and products based on the outcomes that they're trying to achieve? And this is really where BizOps is trying to affect. >> I love that. Again, it doesn't seem like brain surgery, but focus on the outcomes, right? And it's horses for courses, as you said. This project, what you're measuring and how you define success isn't necessarily the same as on this other project. So, let's talk about some of the principles. We talked about the values, but I think it's interesting that the BizOps coalition just basically took the time to write these things down and they don't seem all that super insightful, but I guess you just got to get them down and have them on paper and have them in front of your face. But I want to talk about one of the key ones, which you just talked about, which is changing requirements, right? And working in a dynamic situation, which is really what's driven the software to change in software development because if you're in a game app and your competitor comes out with a new blue sword, you got to come out with a new blue sword. So, whether you had that on your Kanban wall or not. So, it's really this embracing of the speed of change and making that the rule, not the exception. I think that's a phenomenal one. And the other one you talked about is data, right? And that today's organizations generate more data than humans can process. So, informed decisions must be generated by machine learning and AI. And the big data thing with Hadoop started years ago, but we are seeing more and more that people are finally figuring it out, that it's not just big data and it's not even generic machine learning or artificial intelligence, but it's applying those particular data sets and that particular types of algorithms to a specific problem to your point, to try to actually reach an objective, whether that's increasing your average ticket or increasing your checkout rate with shopping carts that don't get left behind and these types of things. So, it's a really different way to think about the world in the good old days, probably when you guys started when we had big giant MRDs and PRDS and sat down and coded for two years and came out with a product release and hopefully, not too many patches subsequently to that. >> It's interesting, right? Again, back to one of these surveys that we did with about 600 IT executives. And we purposely designed those questions to be pretty open. And one of them was really around requirements. And it was really around kind of what is the best approach? What is your preferred approach towards requirements? And if I remember correctly, over 80% of the IT executives said that the best approach, their preferred approach, is for requirements to be completely defined before software development starts. So, let me pause there. We're 20 years after the Agile Manifesto, right? And for 80% of these IT executives to basically claim that the best approach is for requirements to be fully baked before software development starts, basically shows that we still have a very major issue. And again, our hypothesis in working with many organizations is that the key challenge is really the boundary between business and IT, which is still very much contract-based. If you look at the business side, they basically are expecting for IT to deliver on time on budget, right? But what is the incentive for IT to actually deliver on the business outcomes, right? How often is IT measured on the business outcomes and not on an SLA or on a budget type criteria. And so, that's really the fundamental shift that we really need to drive out as an industry. And, we talk about kind of this imperative for organizations to operate as one. And back to the the "Innovator's Dilemma", the key difference between these larger organization is really kind of a... If you look at the amount of capital investment that they can put into pretty much anything, why are they losing compared to startups? Why is it that more than 40% of personal loans today are issued, not by your traditional brick and mortar banks, but by startups? Well, the reason, yes, it's the traditional culture of doing incremental changes and not disrupting ourselves, which Christensen covered at length, but it's also the inability to really fundamentally change kind of the dynamic between business and IT and partner, right? To deliver on a specific business outcome. >> Right, I love that. That's a great summary and in fact, getting ready for this interview, I saw you mentioning another thing where the problem with the Agile development is that you're actually now getting more silos 'cause you have all these autonomous people working kind of independently. So, it's even a harder challenge for the business leaders, as you said, to know what's actually going on. But Serge, I want to close and talk about the coalition. So clearly, these are all great concepts. These are concepts you want to apply to your business every day. Why the coalition? Why take these concepts out to a broader audience, including your competition and the broader industry to say, "Hey, we as a group need to put a stamp of approval on these concepts, these values, these principles?" >> So first, I think we want everybody to realize that we are all talking about the same things, the same concepts. I think we're all from our own different vantage point realizing that things have to change. And again, back to whether it's value stream management or Site Reliability Engineering or BizOps, we're all kind of using slightly different languages. And so, I think one of the important aspects of BizOps is for us, all of us, whether we're talking about consulting, Agile transformation experts, whether we're talking about vendors, right? To provides kind of tools and technologies or these large enterprises to transform for all of us to basically have kind of a reference that lets us speak around kind of in a much more consistent way. The second aspect, to me, is for these concepts to start to be embraced, not just by us or vendors, system integrators, consulting firms, educators, thought leaders, but also for some of our own customers to start to become evangelists of their own in the industry. So, our objective with the coalition is to be pretty, pretty broad. And our hope is by starting to basically educate our joint customers or partners, that we can start to really foster these behaviors and start to really change some of dynamics. So, we're very pleased that if you look at some of the companies which have joined the manifesto, so we have vendors, such as Tasktop, or Appvance or PagerDuty, for instance, or even Planview, one of my direct competitors, but also thought leaders like Tom Davenport or Capgemini or smaller firms like Business Agility Institute or AgilityHealth. And so, our goal really is to start to bring together thought leaders, people who've been helping large organizations do digital transformation, vendors who are providing the technologies that many of these organizations use to deliver on this digital transformation and for all of us to start to provide the kind of education, support and tools that the industry needs. >> Yeah, that's great, Serge, and congratulations to you and the team. I know this has been going on for a while, putting all this together, getting people to sign on to the manifesto, putting the coalition together and finally today, getting to unveil it to the world in a little bit more of a public opportunity. So again, really good values, really simple principles, something that shouldn't have to be written down, but it's nice 'cause it is and now you can print it out and stick it on your wall. So, thank you for sharing the story and again, congrats to you and the team. >> Thank you, thanks, Jeff, appreciate it. >> My pleasure, all righty, Serge. If you want to learn more about the BizOps Manifesto, go to bizopsmanifesto.org, read it and you can sign it and you can stay here for more coverage on theCUBE of the BizOps Manifesto Unveiled. Thanks for watching, see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>welcome to our session on security titled Securing Your Cloud. Everywhere With Me is Brian Langston, senior solutions engineer from Miranda's, who leads security initiatives from Renta's most security conscious customers. Our topic today is security, and we're setting the bar high by talking in some depth about the requirements of the most highly regulated industries. So, Brian four Regulated industries What do you perceive as the benefits of evolution from classic infra za service to container orchestration? >>Yeah, the adoption of container orchestration has given rise to five key benefits. The first is accountability. Think about the evolution of Dev ops and the security focused version of that team. Deb. SEC ops. These two competencies have emerged to provide, among other things, accountability for the processes they oversee. The outputs that they enable. The second benefit is audit ability. Logging has always been around, but the pervasiveness of logging data within container or container environments allows for the definition of audit trails in new and interesting ways. The third area is transparency organizations that have well developed container orchestration pipelines are much more likely to have a higher degree of transparency in their processes. This helps development teams move faster. It helped operations teams operations teams identify and resolve issues easier and help simplify the observation and certification of security operations by security organizations. Next is quality. Several decades ago, Toyota revolutionized the manufacturing industry when they implemented the philosophy of continuous improvement. Included within that philosophy was this dependency and trust in the process as the process was improved so that the quality of the output Similarly, the refinement of the process of container orchestration yields ah, higher quality output. The four things have mentioned ultimately points to a natural outcome, which is speed when you don't have to spend so much time wondering who does what or who did what. When you have the clear visibility to your processes and because you can continuously improve the quality of your work, you aren't wasting time in a process that produces defects or spending time and wasteful rework phases. You can move much faster than we've seen this to be the case with our customers. >>So what is it specifically about? Container orchestration that gives these benefits, I guess. I guess I'm really asking why are these benefits emerging now around these technologies? What's enabling them, >>right? So I think it boils down to four things related to the orchestration pipelines that are also critical components. Two successful security programs for our customers and related industry. The first one is policy. One of the core concepts and container orchestration is this idea of declaring what you want to happen or declaring the way you want things done? One place where declarations air made our policies. So as long as we can define what we want to happen, it's much easier to do complementary activities like enforcement, which is our second enabler. Um, tools that allow you to define a policy typically have a way to enforce that policy. Where this isn't the case, you need to have a way of enforcing and validating the policies objectives. Miranda's tools allow custom policies to be written and also enforce those policies. The third enabler is the idea of a baseline. Having a well documented set of policies and processes allows you to establish a baseline. Um, it allows you to know what's normal. Having a baseline allows you to measure against it as a way of evaluating whether or not you're achieving your objectives with container orchestration. The fourth enabler of benefits is continuous assessment, which is about measuring constantly back to what I said a few minutes ago. With the toilet away measuring constantly helps you see whether your processes and your target and state are being delivered as your output deviates from that baseline, your adjustments can be made more quickly. So these four concepts, I think, could really make or break your compliance status. >>It's a really way interesting way of thinking about compliance. I had thought previously back compliance, mostly as a as a matter of legally declaring and then trying to do something. But at this point, we have methods beyond legal boilerplate for asserting what we wanna happen, as you say, and and this is actually opening up new ways to detect, deviation and and enforce failure to comply. That's really exciting. Um, so you've you've touched on the benefits of container orchestration here, and you've provided some thoughts on what the drivers on enablers are. So what does Miranda's fit in all this? How does how are we helping enable these benefits, >>right? Well, our goal and more antis is ultimately to make the world's most compliant distribution. We we understand what our customers need, and we have developed our product around those needs, and I could describe a few key security aspects about our product. Um, so Miranda's promotes this idea of building and enabling a secure software supply chain. The simplified version of that that pertains directly to our product follows a build ship run model. So at the build stage is doctor trusted registry. This is where images are stored following numerous security best practices. Image scanning is an optional but highly recommended feature to enable within D T R. Image tags can be regularly pruned so that you have the most current validated images available to your developers. And the second or middle stage is the ship stage, where Miranda's enforces policies that also follow industry best practices, as well as custom image promotion policies that our customers can write and align to their own internal security requirements. The third and final stages to run stage. And at this stage, we're talking about the engine itself. Docker Engine Enterprise is the Onley container, run time with 51 40 dash to cryptography and has many other security features built in communications across the cluster across the container platform are all secure by default. So this build ship stage model is one way of how our products help support this idea of a secure supply chain. There are other aspects of the security supply chain that arm or customer specific that I won't go into. But that's kind of how we could help our product. The second big area eso I just touched on the secure supply chain. The second big area is in a Stig certification. Um, a stick is basically an implementation or configuration guide, but it's published by the U. S government for products used by the US government. It's not exclusive to them, but for customers that value security highly, especially in a regulated industry, will understand the significance and value that the Stig certification brings. So in achieving the certification, we've demonstrated compliance or alignment with a very rigid set of guidelines. Our fifth validation, the cryptography and the Stig certification our third party at two stations that our product is secure, whether you're using our product as a government customer, whether you're a customer in a regulated industry or something else, >>I did not understand what the Stig really Waas. It's helpful because this is not something that I think people in the industry by and large talk about. I suspect because these things are hard to get and time consuming to get s so they don't tend to bubble up to the top of marketing speak the way glitzy new features do that may or may not >>be secure. >>The, uh so then moving on, how has container orchestration changed? How your customers approach compliance assessment and reporting. >>Yeah, This has been an interesting experience and observation as we've worked with some of our customers in these areas. Eso I'll call out three areas. One is the integration of assessment tooling into the overall development process. The second is assessment frequency and then the third is how results are being reported, which includes what data is needed to go into the reporting. There are very likely others that could be addressed. But those are three things that I have noticed personally and working with customers. >>What do you mean exactly? By integration of assessment tooling. >>Yeah. So our customers all generally have some form of a development pipeline and process eso with various third party and open source tools that can be inserted at various phases of the pipeline to do things like status static source would analysis or host scanning or image scanning and other activities. What's not very well established in some cases is how everything fits within the overall pipeline framework. Eso fit too many customers, ends up having a conversation with us about what commands need should be run with what permissions? Where in the environment should things run? How does code get there that does this scanning? Where does the day to go? Once the out once the scan is done and how will I consume it? Thies Real things where we can help our customers understand? Um, you know what? Integration? What? Integration of assessment. Tooling really means. >>It is fascinating to hear this on, baby. We can come back to it at the end. But what I'm picking out of this Ah, this the way you speak about this and this conversation is this kind of re emergence of these Japanese innovations in product productivity in in factory floor productivity. Um, like, just in time delivery and the, you know, the Toyota Miracle and, uh, and that kind of stuff. Fundamentally, it's someone Yesterday, Anders Wahlgren from cloud bees, of course. The C I. C D expert told me, um, that one of the things he likes to tell his, uh consult ease and customers is to put a GoPro on the head of your code and figure out where it's going and how it's spending its time, which is very reminiscent of these 19 fifties time and motion studies, isn't it that that that people, you know pioneered accelerating the factory floor in the industrial America of the mid century? The idea that we should be coming back around to this and doing it at light speed with code now is quite fascinating. >>Yeah, it's funny how many of those same principles are really transferrable from 50 60 70 years ago to today. Yeah, quite fascinating. >>So getting back to what you were just talking about integrating, assessment, tooling, it sounds like that's very challenging. And you mentioned assessment frequency and and reporting. What is it about those areas that that's required? Adaptation >>Eso eso assessment frequency? Um, you know, in legacy environments, if we think about what those look like not too long ago, uh, compliance assessment used to be relatively infrequent activity in the form of some kind of an audit, whether it be a friendly peer review or intercompany audit. Formal third party assessments, whatever. In many cases, these were big, lengthy reviews full of interview questions, Um, it's requests for information, periods of data collection and then the actual review itself. One of the big drawbacks to this lengthy engagement is an infrequent engagement is that vulnerabilities would sometimes go unnoticed or unmitigated until these reviews at it. But in this era of container orchestration, with the decomposition of everything in the software supply chain and with clearer visibility of the various inputs to the build life cycle, our customers can now focus on what tooling and processes can be assembled together in the form of a pipeline that allows constant inspection of a continuous flow of code from start to finish. And they're asking how our product can integrate into their pipeline into their Q A frameworks to help simplify this continuous assessment framework. Eso that's that kind of addresses the frequency, uh, challenge now regarding reporting, our customers have had to reevaluate how results are being reported and the data that's needed in the reporting. The root of this change is in the fact that security has multiple stakeholder groups and I'll just focus on two of them. One is development, and their primary focus, if you think about it, is really about finding and fixing defects. That's all they're focused on, really, is there is there pushing code? The other group, though, is the Security Project Management Office, or PMO. This group is interested in what security controls are at risk due to those defects. So the data that you need for these two stakeholder groups is very different. But because it's also related, it requires a different approach to how the data is expressed, formatted and ultimately integrated with sometimes different data sources to be able to appease both use cases. >>Mhm. So how does Miranda's help improve the rate of compliance assessment? Aziz? Well, as this question of the need for differential data presentation, >>right, So we've developed on exposed a P I S that helped report the compliance status of our product as it's implemented in our customers on environment. So through these AP eyes, we express the data and industry standard formats using plastic out Oscar is a relatively new project out of the mist organization. It's really all about standardizing a set of standards instead of formats that expresses control information. So in this way our customers can get machine and human readable information related to compliance, and that data can then be massaged into other tools or downstream processes that our customers might have. And what I mean by downstream processes is if you're a development team and you have the inspection tools, the process is to gather findings defects related to your code. A downstream process might be the ticketing system with the era that might log a formal defect or that finding. But it all starts with having a common, standard way of expressing thes scan output. And the findings such that both development teams and and the security PMO groups can both benefit from the data. So essentially we've been following this philosophy of transparency, insecurity. What we mean by that is security isn't or should not be a black box of information on Lee, accessible and consumable by security professionals. Assessment is happening proactively in our product, and it's happening automatically. We're bringing security out of obscurity by exposing the aspects of our product that ultimately have a bearing on your compliance status and then making that information available to you in very user friendly ways. >>It's fascinating. Uh uh. I have been excited about Oscar's since, uh, since first hearing about it, Um, it seems extraordinarily important to have what is, in effect, a ah query capability. Um, that that let's that that lets different people for different reasons formalize and ask questions of a system that is constantly in flux, very, very powerful. So regarding security, what do you see is the basic requirements for container infrastructure and tools for use in production by the industries that you are working with, >>right? So obviously, you know, the tools and infrastructure is going to vary widely across customers. But Thio generalize it. I would refer back to the concept I mentioned earlier of a secure software supply chain. There are several guiding principles behind us that are worth mentioning. The first is toe have a strategy for ensuring code quality. What this means is being able to do static source code analysis, static source code analysis tools are largely language specific, so there may be a few different tools that you'll need to have to be able to manage that, um, second point is to have a framework for doing regular testing or even slightly more formal security assessments. There are plenty of tools that can help get a company started doing this. Some of these tools are scanning engines like open ESCAP that's also a product of n'est open. ESCAP can use CS benchmarks as inputs, and these tools do a very good job of summarizing and visualizing output, um, along the same family or idea of CS benchmarks. There's many, many benchmarks that are published. And if you look at your own container environment, um, there are very likely to be many benchmarks that can form the core platform, the building blocks of your container environment. There's benchmarks for being too, for kubernetes, for Dr and and it's always growing. In fact, Mirante is, uh, editing the benchmark for container D, so that will be a formal CSCE benchmark coming up very shortly. Um, next item would be defining security policies that line with your organization's requirements. There are a lot of things that come out of box that comes standard that comes default in various products, including ours, but we also give you through our product. The ability to write your own policies that align with your own organization's requirements, uh, minimizing your tax surface. It's another key area. What that means is only deploying what's necessary. Pretty common sense. But sometimes it's overlooked. What this means is really enabling required ports and services and nothing more. Um, and it's related to this concept of least privilege, which is the next thing I would suggest focusing on these privileges related to minimizing your tax service. It's, uh, it's about only allowing permissions to those people or groups that excuse me that are absolutely necessary. Um, within the container environment, you'll likely have heard this deny all approach. This denial approach is recommended here, which means deny everything first and then explicitly allow only what you need. Eso. That's a very common, uh uh, common thing that sometimes overlooked in some of our customer environments. Andi, finally, the idea of defense and death, which is about minimizing your plast radius by implementing multiple layers of defense that also are in line with your own risk management strategy. Eso following these basic principles, adapting them to your own use cases and requirements, uh, in our experience with our customers, they could go a long way and having a secure software supply chain. >>Thank you very much, Brian. That was pretty eye opening. Um, and I had the privilege of listening to it from the perspective of someone who has been working behind the scenes on the launch pad 2020 event. So I'd like to use that privilege to recommend that our listeners, if you're interested in this stuff certainly if you work within one of these regulated industries in a development role, um, that you may want to check out, which will be easy for you to do today, since everything is available once it's been presented. Matt Bentley's live presentation on secure Supply Chain, where he demonstrates one possible example of a secure supply chain that permits image. Signing him, Scanning on content Trust. Um, you may want to check out the session that I conducted with Andres Falcon at Cloud Bees who talks about thes um, these industrial efficiency factory floor time and motion models for for assessing where software is in order to understand what policies can and should be applied to it. Um, and you will probably want to frequent the tutorial sessions in that track, uh, to see about how Dr Enterprise Container Cloud implements many of these concentric security policies. Um, in order to provide, you know, as you say, defense in depth. There's a lot going on in there, and, uh, and it's ah, fascinating Thio to see it all expressed. Brian. Thanks again. This has been really, really educational. >>My pleasure. Thank you. >>Have a good afternoon. >>Thank you too. Bye.

>> Welcome to this Special Cube conversation. We're here in Mountain View, California. Pure storages headquarters on cash for street were here in the arcade of the main building, one of six buildings here in downtown where Pure has their contingent of offices. On joint cab itself was a C i o a pure formerly many, many years of it and running T operations and right of other work clothes. Great to see you. Thanks for From the time >> Great. Thanks for having me. So we're in the >> arcade here. All the old school stand up video games, but our generation, when we have to play videogames standing up but kind of speaks to the culture of pure What's your role of pure What do you do and how long you've been here? >> Okay, so I've been here appear for just about five months and and it's been great. I came on board is the CEO and, as you know, all companies air facing their challenges, going forward, way have ours for scaling is this Business continues to grow so super excited to be here and spent a lot of fun so far. >> So about your career before pure, where were you and how long you worked there. >> I you know, I spent a better part of my current ATT and T Amazing Company and was there for over twenty one years. Had a variety of rules, primarily always in the technology sides. So everything from the from application side two operations infrastructure, Teo, Project Management, Teo Technology, Innovation And then the last few years was was spent working on a lot of our network strategy. So what are we doing as a, um, as a business to kind of transform a teen tea service provider network? And how does that a line from a cloud and a technology for what we have been doing some cases on on the side >> and you've been on both side of the table. You you were a customer of pure. Now you work. If you were running well, I t Here's a CEO. Try and try and keep this transformation going. What's your take on the industry right now? Because it's interesting times as you know it is transforming. You got security front center roles were changing. Got skills, gaps. You get the cloud with scale, a lot of change, >> you know, and it's interesting. That happens that both big companies and smaller companies, so the transition had eighty having those same challenges. They look different here, appear because we are a little over nine year old company, and as you start to look at, we have the real benefit of being a little bit younger on the tech front and being so close to, you know, obviously, being in Silicon Valley, you're so close to all the VCs and the startups. You get to have a little bit of different flavor, but, you know, it's a huge transition. I think that all of us in the industry are really faced with the challenges of not just trying to transform your teams and the work and what they're doing, but then also enable technology that's going to bridges from what we have to do with today, and where do we think we're going to go? So I don't think that is any different on any of the companies. I think we're all in that same boat of saying, How do you make sure I have technology that's gonna live longer than you know, a year, three years? And then how do we have a workforce that can continue to grow and develop because, you know, we want to be able to have our talent stay with us and make those journeys with us >> and one things we to a lot of Cuban Aries over the past ten years. Certainly in it changes been constant theme. But what's interesting is his economic changed and look of skill gas. But economics have changed, and then the time to value the big long projects used to take months and months years right now, shorten those solo cycles have been accelerated down two months and days. Sometimes Frank, can you come and reactive economics and then time to value. >> You know, I think economics are. They're always in the forefront of every company, especially publicly traded companies that, you know you want to make sure we're turning the right value to our shareholders, and that's an important aspect. But I think the more the more important part of it is just trying to make sure that you can make decisions that can outlive kind of a shorter economic window they maybe had would have done in the past. So I think that's where all of us in in the space of CIA rolls or trying to really evaluate. How do you do that? How do you make sure that you could make those transitions and not have next year on Leigh Foundation, But be part of it to help you make some of that shift >> and the evidence on workload. I've heard the word workload was a tag cloud. I'd probably say workload would be the biggest font because, you know, workloads would you mean applications that have been around for a while? But more and more applications are coming. The migrating workload. So the cloud on premise So a lot of emphasis on workloads these days >> is that putting >> pressure on it is putting pressure on the operations. How do you see that? That whole workload thing evolving? >> Yeah, you know, I definitely do. So, you know, one of the one of big initiatives I ran eighteen t was migrating a thousand of our strategic applications onto ah nonprime private cloud. And it was all about not just the economics, but also the efficiency and the enablement for the business to move faster, you know, at a lower cost point. So that always tends to be your kind of bottom line part, but I think is I've come into pure and has You're trying to figure out how do you evolve our workloads of very different. We are very in our applications, like very different. So companies have different profiles of whether it's an application or workload. I think the other is It's a hyper focused around the user experience with, you know, so not just the end customer, but also the employees experience and what happens So, you know, when you talk about workloads, it's not just applications that heir business functions. They're also about. How do you make sure that our employees are having that great experience because you want to have that so that they can help to, you know, grow us as well and be productive in their roles? >> I wantto askyou one of the talk tracks I have on my notes here about pure specifically. But more generically, workloads are dominating conversation, but also technology selection and personnel selection are also tied to workloads, and some have said to me pick the right cloud for the right work. We'LL pick the right tool for the job. You hear that a lot. >> You did. What's your >> thoughts on that? Because this seems a kind of model of wars. Little bit, because the old school was Here's my suppliers. You pick them, they're all stand in the hall, come in with this general purpose. But now, with customization mohr agility, it seems to be that workloads and selection of tech and people are tied together. So >> yeah, no, I think you're right. I think that, um you know, part of our challenge is figuring out and this is me, her. A lot of us don't get yourself locked in And to that old notion of, you know, what you would have seen, you know, back in the day is you Did you pick a vendor and you kind of right that through whatever the challenge he had, I think the vendor community has also recognized that's not really the model they want to be in either. They really want to be a partner. So now what's about figuring out what I consider enablement? So can I use you to work on or to be optimized for a certain type of function? But can I put my work load somewhere else on DH? Do it So that's when one of things I've been surprised, that's probably more rapid shift is it's not just about Can I do it all myself or on Prem or with these set of vendors? It's to say I want to be able to actually move across. So can I have the flexibility and being realistic? But she can't have you? No total flexibility, everything. But you can't start to be prescriptive about certain areas and saying these type of applications are these functions or these workloads. I could get the largest amount of flexibility, but the's I'm actually okay saying most optimized should go here, whether it's on Prem off Prem hybrid. I think that's what we'LL start to see. A lot of >> we see that the cloud conversation. We're going to talk with him, your folks, about this. But no one cloud could be great for a workload for another cloud for another workload. And that's multi cloud because you have a couple clouds, right? And that's the train that we're seeing. You dude >> absolutely saw it at a T. Same thing here, a pure we do some on Prem and we do some hybrid. We also do some hosted where we have our SAS provider host are the applications well and that actually then starts to get you into some other challenges that we have a night that you start to say. So what happens with my data, and what does that look like? Where is it going? How is it secure all those things that are so important as a business to make sure your customer in your employee's data is, you know, corn centric to >> final question for going to the talk trash. I've gotta ask you, being a veteran in the business. What is it, crazier now, then it wass ten, fifteen years ago in terms of work operations. Is it faster? What's your take on it if you look back the old way into the new ways that you know more of the same but just different kind of product and technologies, which you're >> probably in the unique role because I think it's super fun, I think that Theobald litt e to be able to transform your business and have the flexibility. I'm certainly being here in in this roll and, you know, nine half year old company. There's lots of opportunity to be completely flexible, and I think that part is really fun. I think that the challenge for some larger you know, companies who've been around hundred plus year old companies as those companies you know, have a challenge with saying I've got such a large embedded base and trying to be, you know, interoperable around, what what exists and where they want to go. I think a lot of us that were, you know, in these companies that are, like, pure we have, Ah, you know, kind of. I think it is a gift to be able to say Hey, this is really something we should be able to do How do we go do it and have the support to actually do it? So it's Ah, I think it probably depends on the part of the industry that you're in. There's definitely some challenges, and I think privacy is definitely, you know, kind of a backdrop. But I think is you think about that. There's workable solutions for as all cos they're trying to go through. I think it's just a matter of making it. You know, that commitment to say you know you can can be flexible and you can make the progress you're looking for. >> It seems to be more of a builder culture as well as your operational calls. That's right. You can build and operate, build, operate kind of a new kind of flywheel. >> Yeah, I think that's the That's the exciting part for it is, I think we've we have transitioned or we're in that mode that time period where, instead of just being a pure enablement for the business, it's really turning into How do you become a strategic partner? How how do you have that seat at the table where you're helping to say, How do we help your business? It's not just about paying out these applications. Here's our availability hears. I mean those air, what I consider table stakes. You gotta be able to do those things. Now it's about how can we help you? Actually, you know, improve what? Your trying Teo, you know, in the business side of it. So that's the That's the part I think is unique and different is that focus on helping Teo and you're not just enabled, but be that strategic partner to help. He had changed business. >> That's awesome. Couple talk trash. I want to get your thoughts on one is accelerating Conference, which is pure We've been following. The company was founded. Scott Deaton. First interview, I think, was the way he found company Washington success. Now they have a big customer conference. We have the sixteenth in September sixteen September that week. Check it out your first conference, you guys, we're introducing some new things. What's the buzz? What are you planning on for the conference >> yet? So you know, it's interesting cause such as someone who's coming out of, you know, the industry side of it. The thing that's hard is as the CIA or was trying figure out what's going to be the biggest bank for my my time, cause I can't can't go to everything. So I'm super excited. Babel Teo to attend the event. I think the uniqueness is it's focused on the customers so existing customers, but also prospects customers who are considering pure thie. Other unique thing that's happening this year is there is a very specific track around the executive side so that having the sea level conversations, you know, with some of our key leaders in our business and innovative thinkers and so It's kind of running the spectrum of be able to say, If you're coming on and you should all come if you're coming, you're going to be able to have the conversations that you're expecting out of sea level. That might look a little different than maybe someone who's trying to do innovation and in your team and what they're looking for. So whether it's you know, demos or workshops and thinks that you get your hands, you know, hands dirty on, I think that that's the you know, the excitement of all of it is it's it's kind of a multifaceted and it's, ah, it's a great opportunity connects with your peers and with other companies, be able to say, What are you doing? How do we learn from you? We do a lot of those kinds of things, I think in general, but I think when you can get focused and have a peer group that's in, ah, you know smaller type of venue where and it's not thousands at a you know, major major conference that's existing somewhere in the in the U. S. Or u know worldwide, then you can actually have those meaningful conversations with your peers to say, Here's the things I'm working on. How ve you done it? What are you doing so well, I think we're gonna enable all those type of conversations to take place. So I'm excited to be a lot of fuss. >> The objective of the sea level trackers. It's just CEOs, is it? See? So says that CX ohs. What's the focus? What's the objective? >> It is all of that. One of its so interesting is my CEO is actually going to be quizzing me and talking to me about what is they actually expected of a CEO? Because I think that as a zany sea level position, your you know, we have expectations of you know what we need to deliver. But there's also how you contribute to the business. So it's kind of all all facets of it. It's everything from, you know, understanding what the expectations are to Some also thought leadership around where technology's going trends, those type of conversations and being would have some round table conversations. Maybe industry peers, eso all those kind of aspect. So but all all those areas they're covered >> should be great event. Looking forward to it. >> Yeah, a lot of fine >> Cuban be there. Of course we'LL check us out We'Ll be broadcasting live. Okay, Second talk track Women Tech You're a woman Takes years and years in the business in a big focus over the past years, Accused men have a lot of interviews with the great women in tech. >> Where do you >> see this state of the sticks? The needles doesn't seem to be moving on the percentages, but there seems to be great mo mentum in real pros. Lot of mentoring, a lot of networking. You seeing women, VC firms evolving very rapidly seeing cohorts together. What's your take on women in Tech, where we are, What challenges was opportunities? >> Yeah, you know, So we actually, in the Silicon Valley we actually have. There's several forms that go on for women CEOs and events that were to be able to have some of those conversations. And what do we do? And I think it starts with all of us, you know, individually and a in our organization, so organically is to figure out, you know, how do you make sure everyone feels that they belong, whether it's, you know, women or it's any other diverse group of employees. We have to figure out how to make people feel connected and part of the team, and I think it starts with that. And that's for kind of every discipline. And you know that you can think of in a business in text. Specifically, I think the challenge for women is you tend to not want to be identified. As, you know, a woman in Tech. It's like I want to be evaluated for my compensate what I bring to the table, my thought leadership, my perspective on and I don't think that's you mean to women. I think that's just unique to people that we all want to be valued for what we contribute. I definitely think that is a, um, a general kind of population and technology. I have seen where it used to be that I was the only female for many, many years and meetings, whether it was that fender briefings or it was in different company forms. Uh, I've had some unique opportunity. Eighteen t was hugely focused on women in tech women and engineering all those disciplines coming to pure, super exciting that we're we also so small of a company relatively sized eighteen t We have, you know, women heir Geez, employee resource groups. We have women in engineering. We have limited night. So we have kind of the ability to get that mentoring in that coaching the support within the company. And I think that's really valuable. But to your point, I think we have to still do Mohr of connecting outside of our company, figuring out whether that's through, you know, the different universities to make sure that we're getting the pipeline coming in and then retaining. I think that's the other challenges. The number's probably won't change much because we still see a significant amount of women leaving the workforce at a certain point. Er there were staging their career, and we need to figure out, you know what? What's that draw? Why is that happening? So >> what's the technology impact? Because as technology becomes consumer, I just seeing Data Analytics to arm or big a range of topics and confidence is not just computer science or probably or whatever Lim Maura broader perspective that helping at all do you see that evolving, that getting any lift, increasing the population and competency levels, >> you know it's a great question. I think we've had a pretty strong I'LL say, run at women. Being in computer science, we haven't seen enough women going into leadership positions. I think this just kind of industry, you know, generic kind of comment. I think it definitely helps. The more that you have a broader range of skills and capabilities. I think it's what is more fascinating is we need more women in those roles because as you think about the problems that all of our businesses air trying to solve their, it's not one dimension. So if we only have attack our problems with one dimension, one skill set, we just start going to be prepared to be, Oh, it's gonna take us longer And are all of us want to be able to quickly solve the issues that are >> of a personal question put you on the spot? What's the big learnings for you? Looking back now that you've seen that you can share as a woman attack and you put your twenty three year old hat on, what would you do differently? If anything, if you're living in today's world, >> you know eso it's interesting at has asked this question before actually came to pure as I talked to a number of companies in the Valley and it was like, What would you tell your younger self? And I said one of them is not to be afraid, and I think that's so so many of us. Whether you know, male or female. Sometimes you get into a routine and you don't necessarily break out of it or change. And so you tend to maybe take a safer path or a safer direction. And I think if I was to think back you No one is. Don't be afraid and the other, I think, is I probably would have. I was probably naive Tio not realize that I was sometimes the only female, and so I just kind of worked as I didn't think that was a different shade IRT it mattered. And when I think about it now, I probably should have done more to do some of the networking that we're doing today. That might have helped. You know, we talk a lot about the difference between mentoring and sponsoring, and it really gets into that. There needs to be enough, you know, sponsors both male and and female who can help to, you know, not just developed but have the conversations, you know, Make sure that people are included. Those kind of having a voice at the table. And I was very fortunate. I worked under some amazing leaders, both male and female, who who made sure that I had a voice. But I you know, I'm not a timid flower anyway, So I wouldn't have you know, I'm not going to sit there and to sit back and not do it and not to speak up. But I think that's something that not everyone is this comfortable was speaking up and being okay. That maybe I'm not right or so I think that I would tell my younger son Don't be afraid. And the second is to doom or Teo help get other others who maybe don't feel as if they belonged much. Teo, be able to have that. That same voice >> possible. Congratulations. You're awesome. And I'm excited for the event with you, >> you have to be a lot of fun. >> Okay, Next talk track. You were a customer of pure before you joined the company. Yes, you're t you were You know you have the keys to the kingdom. All the vendors pitching you You have big infrastructure, run tons and tons of work loads on DH. This is what, six, seven years ago here was in the growth phase. Now they're public company and much larger experience. But back then you took a risk on a technology. Tell us about that story because you made a big bet. Did it? Work actually worked out. You're here. I'm sure that he still has pure detail. The story? >> Yes. So first it starts with, You know, I had amazing team at a great team of folks who didn't want to accept the status quo, what was happening in the stores storage industry. And so as a CZ, we were hearing, you know, like you said, the pitches about what's due. What's different? Um, they were willing to stand up and say, Hey, you know what I think we need to look at this company, and, you know, it is hard when you are, you know, kind of that time I would say Pierre was somewhat of a unicorn in the sense that you try to have a somebody who's that small, non private, probably health company toe work with a big behemoth like tea. There's a lot of different things, whether it's contractual, you know, the legal, that decency is all that's having put aside the, you know, all of the technology. It's all of that That's really hard for companies to navigate. Pure had an amazing technology, and what happened is they came in and they said, Hey, this is what we can do. We can transform your business is not just about the economics will prove you that part, but we can actually help you to deliver faster for your application teams. We can help you with all these areas and and we could do it all within like two weeks. So the key was being able to stand up and say I'm going to do this and then prove it in this very small window because when you're in a large enterprise, you often you don't have unlimited resource is very constrained of. It's not a different that it started, but you're very limited. Resource is welcome to try to run big scale and so they were able to prove out everything they said, and then plus more. It was things like we started seeing efficiencies in the data center. We started to see that things like that where we thought we're going to have to expand and buy, you know, additional ports. We were able to not have to do it. So there was a lot of these, like side benefits that we weren't expecting. We all those Plus we asked for. So we did. We took a bet on Pure. They were a great, innovative team to work with. And, you know, he's had it, you know, their legacy is ah, very much innovation. And so it kind of was that match to say we need to re and companies who can help us to continue to innovate. >> We little skeptical at first, but we can do in two weeks. >> Yes. So it's almost like a bet. You go. All right, let's get you to do it. We'Ll see how it works in two weeks. So and that's s o they came in. It was all proved out. So we way actually, you know, move forward And you know, today a t and T is you know, hundreds of race, which is, you know, a very large footprint for any company to have with size. And it spans, you know, production application, Tier one applications to things that are specific use cases. So it kind of spans a large. >> Not a lot of war stories around. Critical failures, either. You said you had some successes with them before you came on camera. Yeah. Share that story is the storage. Is one those things where he was going to have something that might go down? The question is, how severe is the problem? What was some of the experiences you have? >> Yeah. You know, I can say that. You know, I left a team t last last summer. So up through that point, we had not had any several announces. So when you think of a large company, it's not unusual to have incidents outages. I mean, that that tends to happen just with the size of your footprint. Um, t was very successful, working with pure on, having essentially having a product that had big stability. And we didn't see those outages and not just on running it, but actually doing the non disruptive upgrades. So the ability to actually take the technology, do the next generation and not have any outages. That's pretty unusual for for any company tau experience. And so I looked at us from a scale highly unusual, but that's that was success. >> Great success. Okay, finally, you're here pure now, your CEO not as big as a T and T was still public company and they have a lot of employees. They're maturing as a company. You're running pure at your house. You can't unless you're doing a bake off internal assessment. How using pure. Now, how's it going? What's the share? Some of the architectural details without giving away any secrets. What's it like? And what you guys doing this innovative. >> So, you know, we are. We are much smaller organization, obviously. Then you know where I live just left. But it's really important for us to have that same innovation and capabilities we actually use pure we. But we use both flash array. We use flash blades of both of our you know, I'll say premiere products. We also use pure one, which is kind of the the telemetry visibility allows you to do what if analysis looked to see how you're doing for capacity perspective. So we actually use, um are you know, three of our primary products to actually run our daily our data warehouse, and then we are doing some of it just to be able to do some of our security. So we actually run a splunk in tableaux and using those type of tools, those capabilities, we run them on our environments and were able to do a lot of things that the feedback that we're getting is like, Oh, my gosh, we can't believe that you guys were able to do this. We have a very, very lean ight organization. So to do some of the things we're doing from a security analytics and, you know, threat, detections and all that, those are things that aren't very common for a lot of companies are we're all trying to be better on it and were able to use our own technology to kind of help substantiate what we're trying to solve for that's so super exciting. >> That's awesome. Final point on the CEO perspective. Great to have you and get the CEO perspective again. Bullets a customer and then working up your CEO is out there right now are challenged with transformation. Digital transmissions like buzz word that's been kicked around for years. But now you starting to see the robber hitting the road. Really? Development pressure, modernisation, run app, development. See, I see the pipe lining to multi cloud hybrid cloud. All this is now pretty much got some visibility into architectural decisions. What do you think is the bigger It's callous facing CEOs today in terms of, you know, thinking about the holistic, you know, five ten year horizon as they start to make investments and think about either aging out or contain arising preexisting workloads to cloud native APS and on premise giving me all your thoughts. >> Yeah. You know, I think that the kind of boils down to a couple aspects. One of them is, you know, module ization of your applications. That's why containers ations become such a big deal. Being able to do things like, you know, have your data separate from your application and not have everything so integrated at that level where you then are getting somewhat confined. You have issues with in I have to have this application running in this location. I also need to have the data has to be, you know, coexisting with it and so you run with all these constraints. So I think that for depending on the age of your organisation, that the first challenge is trying to figure out how do I start, Tio, you almost break apart my application of iron, my infrastructure. So I have more ability to have more modularity between what needs to happen and where it needs to happen. So I think to me, that's the That's one of the biggest aspects were, you know, super fortunate, because because we're a big sash shot. Most of our applications were dependent on our venders for the US Ask providers to have kind of worked through some of those issues, but that's that's one aspect. I think the second is the ability to navigate between, you know, on permanent prints. So the hybrids solution is really I don't see that going away. I think that all of us are struggling with the whole notion of whether it's the economics. It's the ability to like you, said move workload to the right location for the right optimization, the right tooley, et cetera. And so I think it's that flexibility. You can't get any of that if you don't have the first part done. And then when you start talking about your like your digital strategy, none of that works when you start wanting to get into, like, a A and m o until you have some of those things done and you put that data strategy in place. So you then have that ability have the threat across your whole, you know, ecosystem. And I think that's what our challenge, >> an automation, is key. But you gotta automate manual test. You have people to do it. Then you got a strange way to make that. So the skill gap stills always gonna be there. Right? Kathy, Thanks for Spend the time sharing your insight here on the cube conversation. Really appreciated. Absolutely. Thank you for >> having me >> here. Cube culture here. Pure storages headquarters in Mountain View, California. John Korea. Thanks for watching