(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California. It's theCUBE! Covering CISCO Live, US, 2019. Brought to you by CISCO and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE live at CISCO Live in San Diego, I'm Lisa Martin and I did a little switcharoo on you guys, I decided to upgrade my co-host! Susie Wee is my co-host, the SVP and CTO of DevNet. Susie it's great to have you here! >> Thank you it's great to be on this side of the table! >> It's exciting, I'm among CISCO royalty, and partner royalty. So to my right is Ramon Alvarez, the director of strategy and business development for Samsung, Ramon welcome to theCUBE! >> Thank you! >> And one of our alumni, it's great to have you back as well Matt McPherson the wireless CTO from CISCO, Matt welcome back! >> Glad to be here! >> So we're on the DevNet zone. Susie the last three days have been electric to say the least. The energy, the interest, what you guys have built, you can feel it I mean I was telling you, from 9:30 this morning we started to have to yell into our microphones because there was so much interest I every session here. We've been talking a lot about WIFI6. >> Yep! >> The capabilities, the excitement, the opportunities that it brings. It's so exciting! >> It's so exciting! >> So we've had just all of the excitement around WIFI6, around 5G, we know that here at the DevNet zone we've been really pushing forward with our developers, the programmability of the network. But what we wanted to do here today is to bring you some of the making of WIFI6 and some of the making of 5G that happens and what's interesting is CISCO as a networking company, has been working very closely with Samsung as a overall networking company as a device manufacturer, and basically as we've been together to develop WIFI6 and 5G, Ramon and Matt have been working together as we created all of that technology and had some interesting releases. So we thought it would be great to just kind of share what's going on here. >> Awesome, super exciting. Matt let's start with you talk to us about this creation that you guys are doing, leveraging the power of WIFI6. >> Well you know WIFI6 it's really revolutionary compared to what we're sed to when it comes to WiFi. It's really broadening the market, this capability to do more deterministic type applications and services, we're really excited about it. Everybody that supplied WiFi has the positives and have had the struggles and as we go into this next generation we can actually make it easier as we add intelligence to the network. But of course when you make this type of transition, what happens? New technology, new standards, and so there's always these little rough edges in getting that new technology out. So what we did is we reached out to our good partners here in Samsung and we started this very early, you're hearing about WIFI6 now and you're hearing about some of the things that are happening in the industry now, but we started working way back, way back. And in fact it's kind of interesting, how do you get these new devices in peoples hands, so that you can test what WIFI6 can do in real environments, in a university environment, in a hospital environment, in an airport environment. So working with Samsung what we did is we actually had 170 covert devices, they were literally Galaxy S10's, and they were dressed up as a Galaxy S9, because it was before they released these devices they didn't want to let all their secrets out, and so what we did is we put these early on into these new work environments and we got to test, we got to do interoperability, we got to really iron out the spec so that when they released their Galaxy S10, and we released our AP's, guess what, it works. We don't put the customers through the initiation of a next generation of technology. So we're really excited to be working with Samsung and really collaborating on multiple different levels. >> So you said you've been working at this for a long time we met sort of talking about WIFI6 with you guys at DevNet create just six or seven weeks ago. Talk to us before we get into some of the meat with Ramon about some of those drivers that CISCO started seeing awhile ago in terms of the evolution of the network, and we think about some of the numbers that we're seeing for the massive amounts of mobile data, it's going to be transitioning off of cellular networks on to WiFi, talk to us about what you guys saw that vision awhile ago that lead to all those cool covert operations. >> Look a lot of people you say look WiFi works right? So why do we need a sixth generation of WiFi? But you know when we look at the trajectory of traffic it can be a little bit daunting. In 2023, CISCO's VNI index that shows these trends, we will transmit more mobile data in 2023, than every year before it combined. So this is what we're seeing this is what we have to deal with. So it's very important that we get together with these partners whether it be Intel at the chip set level, whether it would be Samsung at the device level because you know what, we can't just answer today, we have to answer the next three, five, seven years and WIFI6 is going to give us that platform. >> Alright Ramon tell us about some of the cool meat here that we really want to dig in to. >> So actually one of the things that you kind of touched up on but I would like to mention is that one of the reasons why WIFI6 is here is actually the congestion on networks. So when you go with your smartphone, you go to an event, sports venue, concert, etc, many many people are trying to connect to WiFi, the signal and actually the throughput degrades very, very quickly with the number of people who actually get into the network. So WIFI6 actually solves for that, so that's one of the top pain points that actually we have from our users, our consumer research. The second pain point we actually tried to solve with WIFI6 in our collaboration with CISCO, it's the battery life. So one of the top pain points again for smart phone users it's well my battery doesn't last for a full day, I take lots of pictures, I upload videos, etc, that's going to drain my battery. So actually WIFI6 is a mode where the devices can actually sleep and the AP's can sleep, and only wake up the device and transmit data when that channel is actually available. So that essentially for the user is actually longer battery life. There's more advantage but those are kind of the two key ones. >> There's more and actually if I can just ask both of you, as we were testing between our companies, what kinds of things were we learning and how is that going as we're developing it? >> Like we said it's a new specification, if you look really even at the ground level, all previous versions of WiFi were based on OFDM, this next generations on OFDMA. So that adds some new complexities, but also a lot more capability. Now what happens all the time when you have a new spec is people can read that spec in different ways. How we implement the spec may not be exactly how they implement the spec, and if we don't do that testing beforehand what happens is we discover that out at the customer when that phone call drops or that connection doesn't work like you would expect it to work, that AP to AP handoff doesn't work the way that you expect it to work. We found over 60 critical differences, it's hard to say bud right, but 60 critical differences in how we were interpreting the spec and how the device players were interpreting the spec, and we resolved that so the customer didn't have to go through it they just get good access. >> So it's been an amazing partnership as we were kind of working out all the kinks and I remember, nobody expects WIFI6 or WiFi to be different. Everyone's like it performs the way it does, can it be different, and then one of my guys went into the lab and he tried it and he came back, his eyes were this big. (gasp) It's fast! And he couldn't believe it and so we were able to do it, but that makes us be able to do a whole new set of applications so I think there's some new applications that we can jump into because WIFI6, it does enable new applications. >> In our case we are consumer companies, we sell devices to consumers so the number one application for us is well any kind of consumer application, social media, uploading videos, etc. So that's our established market but we also try to go into other B2B verticals, like public safety, like hospitality, financial, retail, etc. Where actually having that reliability on the network it's extremely important. So one of the reasons why hospitals, hotels, etc deploy their own WiFi network versus just using LTE or 5G is because they can actually control the user experience, they can actually control the throughput, they can control the availability, the coverts, etc. So WIFI6 actually enables that especially when there is a congested situation. >> And we've never had that deterministic control within WiFi before. >> That's right so that's kind of at the network level, and then in terms of more applications at a higher level, so I think that gets you very excited. So we actually have you know Samsung it's a device manufacturer, we have many many devices, smart phones is one of them, we have laptops, wearables, VR headsets, TV's, appliances, etc, they're all getting connected to WiFi. So one of the things that we have seen over the last few years is that the number of WiFi devices in a typical US household has increased from five per household to nine per household today, and it's going to be about 50 WiFi devices per household in 2022. >> 50? Five Zero? Whoa! Should I get my dog a smartphone? >> Your thermostat, door lock, cameras, all kinds of devices have a WiFi connection. In a home we need to be able to support that, but also in an enterprise. >> That's a shift in the industry to think of those things having WiFi connection. >> That's right sensors, motion sensors, open/close sensors, all kinds of humidity sensors, etc. They're all getting connected to WiFi so we need to be able to support that kind of growth. >> So that makes me think, sorry Susie, of security. We talked a lot within the last few days about the integration and the embedding of security to the CISCO suite, but when you're talking about whether it's data from my nest system, or a camera connected to my alarm system, data privacy it's blown up, every generation in the workforce today is aware of it. Can you talk to us a little bit about what you guys are doing to ensure that security's pegged in? >> There's so many places that you can implement security, and the fact of matter is in a good network you have to implement it in all those places, because you don't know where that breach or where it might be subject to somebody coming in and compromising your system. But one of the things that we're doing that I think really revolutionary, is this ability to pull analytics out of the network and actually baseline the behavior of that network. So we know what's normal, we know how devices communicate, we know how that light switch communicates or that light bulb, even these very simple things. And sometimes it's kind of scary you think what if someone were to hack into that really simple stack in a light bulb, how many light bulbs are in a building? And what if they actually went across those light bulbs and started basically spamming into the network? You wouldn't be able to get anything done. Well you can't just turn off all the light bulbs, we're going to disconnect all the light bulbs in the building from the network, you can't do that. So what Cisco is doing with this digital network architecture and what we call SDA or software defined access is the ability to segment and separate things out based on their function. So we can put all of that building management in one segment we can put your mission critical applications in another segment and in fact if somethings misbehaving, don't turn it off but segment it out so it can't in fact cause problems further in your network. I was talking about a light bulb, what if you're in a hospital and it's a heart monitor? >> Right or an MRI machine. >> And you don't want to turn that off, but you don't want ti do infect the rest of that hospital room or the rest of the hospital. So moving into a segment, isolate it, let the function go on, alarm the administrator so that they can address it and contain it. >> And this is exciting because what happens is if you think WIFI6, oh yeah it's an access point and it's what's in the client, and that's it. But actually now we're talking about using the capabilities of a whole network to ensure the security and things like that. Ramon you have an interesting new app that our viewers might want to see. >> Yeah actually I wanted to just continue this talk about security so sometimes we think about security and user experience as a trade off, and we don't like that. We want to maximize especially as a device manufacturer we want to improve and enhance always the user experience. So one of the things we're working on is open roaming, and I like kind of the motto that you guys had was well it's easy to use, but it's secure as well. So essentially open roaming it's a way for users WiFi to connect automatically to a WiFi network, without having to enter in a login and password information, and kind of sign in page, without going through that process. A user will get automatically authenticated, and of course we have to have some security so one thing we've done is using Samsung account in our devices as the authentication system for the user. >> And where are we doing it, right here! >> I'm actually connected through open roaming with my phone right now. >> So almost 50% of all attendees that came out to CISCO Live just automatically connected to the network. They didn't have to go through a portal, they didn't have to get out usernames and passwords, they didn't have to go to their connection manager and pick the right network, they're just connected, they're transmitting traffic, they're getting their emails. >> That happened to me this morning on another device I brought in. >> There you go, and that's a security thing because what you're doing with that is Samsung users have Samsung accounts when they provision their device they save their configuration is there, they save their preferences there, they provision it into a device it pushes it out and now you get this profile, this certificate that allows you to do these types of things, and with partners like Samsung guess what, they have a pretty big market. Go to Mobile World Congress last year, everyone with a Galaxy S9 just connected to the network. So this really broadens across the ecosystem it's changing the way we will experience networking. >> It's going to impact every persons live on every level, this is so exciting. So you guys have to come back cause we're out of time but this is, I feel like we're just getting started. But thank you guys so much. Susie thank you for being my awesome and steamed co-host. >> Thank you for giving me this opportunity to be a co-host. >> Awesome you guys, Ramon, Matt, thank you so much for your time we appreciate it. >> I'm going to hold you to bringing us back. >> Deal! Shake on it! Alright for my guest and for Susie Wee, I'm Lisa Martin you're watching theCUBE live from CISCO Live San Diego, thanks for watching! (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBE Conversation. >> Welcome to theCUBE studios for another CUBE Conversation where we go in depth thought leaders driving business outcomes with technology. I'm your host, Peter Burris. Every organization is concerned about how they are going to generate greater value out of the networks by adding more people in more places and supporting more applications. Now we've effectively moved from a wired orientation into a wireless orientation but a lot of enterprises still envision and experience some limitations. What CIOs, business leaders and infrastructure people want is they want a modern wireless experience and the good news is we got a lot of technology coming down at us that are likely to get us there. Now to have that conversation we've got a couple of great guests today. Shrikant Shenwai is a CEO of the WBA and Matt MacPherson's the CTO of Cisco Wireless. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Great to be here. >> So let's start, what's WBA? >> WBA is Wireless Broadband Alliance. It's an industry consortium. And what we do is essentially look at wireless technology but from a perspective of how wi-fi together with other technologies can deliver the great experience and meet the requirements of enterprise as well as others, in particular service providers community. >> So we know what Cisco is Matt, so (laughing) We'll stay here and talk about this. I said upfront that we've got a lot of new technologies coming down the horizon. Specifically you've got Wi-fi 6 and we've got Gen5, we've got the next generation of cell service. A lot of people think there's a divergence on the horizon. You guys don't, explain why. >> I don't think it's we just don't. There are others in the industry, especially these people who are to make technology decisions, the CIOs, CTOs. What they are looking at is, I have a business problem, how do I solve that business problem? What technology makes me do my job better? Can it do it more cost effectively? And essentially what it boils down to is to say, if I have to use certain technologies, whether it's 5G, 4G or whatever that might be for certain use cases, I'll use it for that. But when it comes to wi-fi? The great thing about wi-fi is wi-fi has always been the technology in the indoors environment. It's the most successful wireless technology, almost similar to the 3G technologies. So what these are looking at is how to combine the power of the two together. How do you make them work together? And that's essentially where we find ourselves in a biy of a good position to help industry because we have players from the traditional cellular side working within WBA, with companies like Cisco to look at how do you actually make the experience work better by not choosing between either or but together these technologies. >> So it suggests to me that what you're looking to do is find the best of 5G or the cell G experience and the best of the wi-fi experience and bring 'em together so that you can achieve those new densities, higher performance, greater security, everything that folks want in that modern wireless experience. Cisco is going to be one of the companies that actually makes this happen. Matt when you think about bringing these things together and this notion of converging or let's call it unifying experiences. >> Mm-hmm. >> Because that's what's going to make it simpler. What types of things do we need to think about? What's the metaphor that folks need to worry about as they think about how this is all going to happen? >> Yeah I think a lot of times when you have these very distinct technologies and a very distinct use case, you had LTE and as that moves into 5G, 5GNR and you had the wifi world, it was very understood this was unlicensed, this was licensed. There was a segmentation. You expected to be going 80 miles and hour down the road and using this. You expected to use wi-fi when you were indoors and the corporate environment, right? And when these things start to come together and you see this overlap, right? You can read that two ways, right? You can say, hey one technology is threatening the other. Cisco doesn't see it that way. Cisco sees it as these technologies come together it produces an opportunity to use both to provide the best experience wherever you are. Unifying both axis's into common core infrastructure, right? So this means that the user, not caring which technology they're coming in on, will always get the experience that they're looking for or the IT department, the one that they want to provide or that airport, right? Wherever you are, indoor or outdoor. >> Well so let's talk about experience because I think the experience that most users are focused on, and by that I mean consumers and individuals who are actually doing work, and therefore pushing their service providers and pushing their IT departments to fix is that the LTE world allows me to roam and not lose a signal. The wi-fi world allows me to hop from network to network if I want to as long as I authenticate at each point. >> Exactly. >> How is that 5G experience going to be applied in a wi-fi world so that I don't have to constantly be giving up private information? Authenticating in new and various, sometimes over 5G kinds of ways? >> Again, it's a bit of a, I mean it's a great question in the sense that in one technology it's been solved for a long time. In the other technology there's a bit of back pressure just on how do you securely connect to that network, right? You know it's interesting, I was talking to one of the VPs of roaming at a very large operator and I asked him, I said, "How many roaming agreements "do you have to have in order to roam anywhere "in the world?" And he basically said, "Well, you know it's somewhere north "of 800 roaming agreements." >> Wow. >> Right? So there's actually that many operators around the planet that they have to negotiate these agreements with. They get the lawyers together, they talk about cost. They talk about service and quality, et cetera, right? Now in 2017 there was 124 million wi-fi networks-- >> Hotspots. >> Hotspots on the planet. >> 124 million? >> 124 million. By 2022 there'll over 500 million. Now if we want to be able to authenticate and onboard wherever you are? No offense to the legal community but I don't think we want to put a lawyer between every one of those negotiations. >> And you couldn't use a block chain. (laughing) >> Good point. (laughing) So what we're doing is we're working on a new technology that's called Open Roaming. It's based on Passpoint Hotspot 2.0 so that when you go into a particular environment it'll see the network, it'll discover the network. It'll understand how and where to authenticate and the connection will just happen. In fact it's almost interesting demonstrating the technology because you basically pick up your mobile device and say, oh look, see I'm connected, demo over, right? And that's really what you're trying to achieve. Different problem, different scale of problem for wi-fi but something that we definitely learned from the community over on the 4G/5G side is that in order to benefit from the network you have to be connected to the network. And that's why we're pursuing this type of work. >> Yes, if I could just add to what Matt said? I think the historical context here, because in the world of 4G/3G/5G the roaming was between carriers and he said there were 800 carriers and maybe there were a lot of them but there was a finite number of those providers, network providers. In the world of wi-fi, because wi-fi is wi-fi, anyone can deploy wi-fi. You just talked about a number which is half a billion hotspots around the world in 2022. Even today there are so many different types of hotspots all over the place. So the model that you applied for roaming between the carriers, which is clearly one model that has to be duplicated, in fact, that's where WBA started and we did have foundation work to help the carriers do roaming with each other. But having done that, what we're finding is that's enough in the world of wi-fi. What you need is more than that because it's a different world. You have venues, you have hotels, you have all kind of different providers, enterprises. They all want their networks to be connecting. So to apply the same model of interconnectivity that was done by the carriers to this environment, doesn't work. So what you need is a bit of, almost like a roaming consortium approach where anyone who is part of a consortium can automatically connect to the others who want to join the consortium. And that's essentially what Cisco has done with their Open Roaming. And from a WBA standpoint, as an industry body, we think there is a need to standardize that. There's a need to make it much more standards based so that anyone and everyone can get connected using the same protocols, same ways of connecting with each other and that's where we see a lot of work happening now as we speak to make all those things happen. >> Without diminishing the inherent value of Wi-fi 6 while sustaining the security, while sustaining the new densities, while sustain a new performance and I think you're right. I think that, you know 800 seems like a lot but those are service providers. They are economically incented. They're financially incented to put those relationships together. Versus in the wi-fi world where people buy their boxes to build their private networks and the transaction cost associated with trying to figure out how all that works together? It's overwhelming, there's no way to do it. So by introducing new technologies that just makes it a feature of how things can work together, it just facilitates the negotiation costs and the transaction costs associated with providing this experience. Have I got that right? >> Yeah, you absolutely have it right, and the interesting thing is that we look at it two ways. One, you want to make that user experience very seamless, right? Automatic, which we're doing. We've done it at big venues like Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. Over 110,000 attendees, right? You want to give 'em an experience where they're just on the network and they're getting the tutor services that they need to reach. But what I also say about something like Open Roaming or Passpoint, is it also becomes a building block to some of these next generation technologies, right? In other words, if an operator wants to offload into a wi-fi network? They have to be on the wi-fi network. >> Mm-hmm. >> So if we're automatically connecting to wi-fi, the opportunity to offload becomes much higher and now we can apply next generation technologies like intelligent path selection. When do you go to wi-fi? When do you go to LTE or 5GNR? And even some of these technologies that we're seeing some of the device manufacturers doing today, like multi path. Maybe we use both? Maybe we use both because we're trying to optimize delay? Maybe as we go from voice to rich collaboration services and rich collaboration services go into things like AV/VR, where you need the bandwidth, where you need a better delay characteristic? Now we're enabling those and we're not enabling it just with wi-fi. We're not enabling it just with 5G. We're enabling it together, right? So that we can address that problem of making sure that we can provide connectivity wherever we are, given the services we have, the credentials that are already on the device, seamlessly. >> A user, whether it's a human being or an application effectively sees a network, even if it's physically instantiated, in a couple of different forms? >> Exactly. >> Human being, application, and IoT device, how do you get these billions of devices connected? And again, when you need to connect, for example, you just had this announcement in EU about vehicle to vehicle communication using wi-fi so you need roaming in a wider context here. Not just about connecting the carriers. Connecting the entire footprint or as much footprint as possible. Whether it's from the enterprise environment, from the carrier environment, other environment. Connecting devices, in fact IoT, as we know is another big thing and that's where we are seeing a lot of fraction again, especially with Wi-fi 6, there's a lot of work being done to support IoT based connectivity on wi-fi and part of that will be, of course, all with the roaming as well. There'll be a roaming component to that. >> Excellent. Very exciting stuff. Can see a lot of new use cases, a lot of new opportunities. Lot of discovery that people are going to have to go through but the bottom line here is we're talking about a new, modern wireless experience that's combining multiple technologies, unifying multiple technologies to provide it. Shrikant Shenwai, Matt MacPherson, thank you very much for joining us for another great CUBE Conversation. And I'm Peter Burris, see ya next time. (upbeat music)

from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation welcome to the cube studios for another cube conversation where we go in-depth with thought leaders driving business outcomes with technology I'm your host Peter Burris every Enterprise wants the modern wireless experience and by now most should know that that's going to be a combination of 5g and Wi-Fi six it's not either/or it's how do we apply both of them to achieve the technological outcomes that we want within our business but it requires new thinking because there are a lot of new technologies here that are going to be applied to make that modern wireless experience happen what will be those new technologies how hard will they be to adopt and what kinds of new use cases will be will be utilized well to have that conversation we're here with Eric McLaughlin who's the GM of the wireless solutions group at Intel and Matt fierson who's the CTO of Cisco wireless Eric Matt welcome to the cube Thanks beer to hear all right so you know what let's start with you Matt when we think about this notion of the modern wireless experience I've assert it's going to be both but there's a lot of new technology behind these things give us some insight into what are some of those new technologies that folks are gonna have to start worrying about yeah you know when we're looking at something like a next generation technology there's certain areas that you expect right you expect it to be a little bit faster you expect it to connect to maybe a broader set of devices but what's interesting I think about Wi-Fi six versus previous generations is really there's new technology enhancements that really broaden the set of use cases that that technology can be applied to for example in the old days which actually isn't that long ago I think today you might even say today right um what you would do is when you go to implement a wireless technology at an enterprise what you're doing is you're trying to control a collision domain so that you get it known experience right and what you would tend to do is you tend to over provision the work and hope that it was undersubscribed and there was a lot of Technology a lot of best practices in order to do that a lot of administrative overhead politics associated exactly right and you're doing these RF walks and all these things right with something like Wi-Fi sex and the ability to schedule the air interface this becomes much much simpler you can get it more deterministic result you can map applications that might be mission-critical to lower delay characteristics and this is something that the protocol accommodates right so I think that's in the net and that is even though the technology is more sophisticated it's actually going to be easier for IT administrators to get to where they need to be for the applications they need to serve so I'm gonna dig into that in a second but let's start with you know Eric what are some of the underlying new technologies is this a big leap is that a small leap is it you know we've always talked about how you know some new thing was going to be bigger than you know best thing since sliced bread and where is this on that spectrum well from our perspective we from our perspective we see this as a significant leap in technology some of the underlying things that are coming as Matt mentioned moving from contention based to a scheduled network enables a much more efficient network from a client perspective which is where I spend my time you can you can deliver data over the network faster due to OFDM a implementation which allows huge amounts of throughput you've got larger channelization coming along with this and the combination of those things is going to to allow use cases lower power and things that we haven't been able to do with Wi-Fi in the past or at least not at the user experience level that that everybody needs in laws so to get to that user experience level it means that someone's gonna have to make some adjustments to how networks work network administrator's from practices evolve that always scares CIOs that always scares Network people Matt is this going to be one of those cases where a large leap in technology translates into you know and even bigger leap and the adoption practices some processes to actually exploit it yeah I think it's one of the things that you know a company like Cisco we pay a lot of attention to because we do see that the technologies can become more complex and if the individual IT department or the systems integrator is responsible for that complexity what happens is they actually implement less and less features so that they can get to the result with less guessing on whether or not things are actually going to work or how one feature impacts another what we're doing at Cisco within ten pages intent-based networking is basically we're pushing this policy down into the network through an abstraction that allows you to push that policy in such a way that the network then figures out how to accommodate what you're asking for and then in the reverse you're reading these analytics back that tells the administrator whether or not that experience is actually achieved so the technology is more capable for sure but it's actually going to be easier to use deploy and apply the policies that you need so one of the first place is where we really exploit the new technology is in the discovery metrics etc associated administration so it's easier to adopt it for everybody else exactly and that'll accelerate the curve so we got we got a significant advance in the quality of the technology a modest advance in the adoption characteristics or you know limited barriers and leaps we have to take here that suggests that there's going to be an explosion in the number of use cases Eric what do you think yeah we definitely see that you know today when you think of Wi-Fi in an enterprise you essentially think of access getting your device your client connected into the network so that you can have access to the data that you need and share the data that you have with others what we see and and and we kind of coined this term internally of office of the future we see Wi-Fi being used in a variety of ways to deliver experiences that a user needs and wants but doesn't know how to get today things like where are you located where are you at within an office you go to a new office you're in a new location you're able to pull up maps and see what's happening where's the conference room that you want to go to what cubes are open and those kinds of things we also see other cases where you can use Wi-Fi for sensing what's happening in the room around you what's what's happening in the environment that you're in and how does the user and the device that you're using react to those new environmental characteristics and how do you make sure that you're delivering the best possible bandwidth the best possible experience so that new things can happen connecting devices in a different way and getting to your data and they're much more seamless and easy fashion so one of the things that everybody talks about is security hmm and it's becoming increasingly difficult to differentiate security from networking in fact we're seeing in a lot of enterprises I'm sure you guys are too the NOC and the Sox start to slowly merge together into a secure infrastructure that's capable of moving data around how does security play into some of these new use cases I think it's a key question I mean when you when you look at security and you know even when you look at some of the new devices like IOT some of those devices can be sophisticated some of them not so much and so one of the things that you want to do with security is be able to differentiate that different use cases or maybe even the different equipment onto different segments of the network so how do you isolate some of these use cases from each other I mean especially around technologies like IOT which could be every light bulb in your building right somebody hacks into that light bulb and next thing you know it's spreading across and you know it could take down the whole network right so the fact that you have OFDM a and you can schedule the air interface means you can segment it if you can segment it you can secure it right so this becomes a fundamental function of the underlying technology in the case of Wi-Fi six so if I've got the opportunity to secure things better and I can support greater densities with greater performance and lower latencies that suggests that the devices themselves can get born numerous and more interesting very IOT so talk a bit about some of these use cases Matt about related to IOT and and how that's how these technologies are going to liberate some new capabilities within organizations yeah you know in in organizations today you got this IT administrator and what is he doing he's he's dealing with less staff right and oftentimes less funding yet he has to address more and more devices and sometimes users on that network well we know that IOT is going to drive this to the next order of magnitude right so we have to implement easy simple ways to push the policy into the network and you know what it might not be done by the IT administrator it might be done by the OT department and so when we look at these types of the operational segments that but not exactly exactly so you might want the operational department to have the capability to onboard these IOT devices but they have to onboard them within the policy of the IT department so that the network remains secure again the OT department right you have to onboard them in the policy of the OT Department well both both because I t's also fundamentally responsible for securing the network right right right here so as we think about the new IOT use use cases we think about greater security is there a particular area or class of application you mentioned the office of the future is there another one that we think about when you talk to customers that is likely to catalyze a lot of the excitement yeah I can give you a couple of examples when we talk to our customers especially in enterprise you can ask a very simple question do you have mission-critical applications and you know every enterprise believes it has mission-critical applications now depending on who you're talking to if it's if you're in a manufacturing plant and you're moving robot arm that's pretty mission-critical right you don't want to stop the assembly line but you know you're going to something like healthcare right you have a heart monitor or you have a palm or yes that's pretty mission-critical to but even when you go into carpeted space you know if you're over it at Cisco for example we live and breathe WebEx collaboration tools and we want to be able to prayer our prioritize that experience and make sure that we're giving our not only our customers but our employees the experience they need so that they're not focused on the function of the network but they're focused on their business right they're focused on what they're trying to do but I want to take this example of mission critical and and and see if I can wrap this up and I'll use a healthcare example so healthcare is provisioned inside a hospital or inside a doctor's office but as we think about IOT with greater densities more performance more reliability more security I can actually think about utilizing some of these technologies Wireless to provision health care to where the person is now you know I got my little apple watch that's got to be a first that's a first step but it's pedestrian compared to where we're going to be in the future talk about that for a second is it possible that we will see a business be able to extend itself and the services that provide using these technologies all the way out to their customer and so that they so anybody anywhere at anytime can have that engaging experience if it's required is that really where we're going with these technology I think it's an i man it's a spot-on question I mean if you look at what's happening in the industry services are moving into the cloud that's clear we've all seen it the numbers are there right well we want the cloud to move to where the service exactly so you say you have these services moving in the cloud mate and maybe that cloud is distributed right so there's all sorts of technologies around that right and the users are definitely going mobile right so what happens is in the IT department is what what they used to have completely contained they have their computer room and they have their network and they have their access is now actually spread out into this these mobile environments much more much more distributed and when in the example that you were talking about with IOT you give it an example of your watch but I wonder when all these things that we're wearing start to become more and more intelligent I think what's going to happen is that there's going to be services that come from the cloud that extend into that access network that's managed by an entity that's different than the cloud service but will be able to produce a predictable experience because of the ability to segment and to apply equality a service and to have predictable delay all those types of characteristics right so this technology is really preparing you for these types of shifts that we're seeing in in the users use case and in the industry Eric Matt great conversation thank you thanks very much for being on commit thank you to be here thank you for joining us for another cube conversation on Peterborough's see you next time [Music]