>> Narrator: Live from Nashville, Tennessee. It's theCUBE covering Commvault GO 2018. Brought to you by Commvault. >> Welcome back to Nashville, Tennessee. You're watching theCUBE at Commvault GO. I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host Keith Townsend. Happy to welcome to the program Lance Shaw, who's the director of Solutions Marketing at Commvault. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you so much, glad to be here. >> All right, so we've been having a great day here. We're talking to some of your partners. Talking to some of your customers. Solutions Marketing, of course, everything's a solution these days. That's what they're looking for. Tell us a little bit about your background and what you do at Commvault. >> Lance: Absolutely, right. So, I came from a product management and product marketing background and one of the things we're really focused on here at this show, of course, is all about customers and what their stories are and frankly, how we can improve our products and our solutions to better meet the needs of the customers, right. That's what ultimately what it all comes down to. And so, that's why we're here, the whole reason for the show. I think what's been interesting so far at this show has been the focus on, not only just cloud utilization, but the fact that customers are having to deal with multiple clouds and the fact that why they have to do that. There's a variety of reasons that drive people to say well you know maybe five years ago, you would have said, "Are you using a cloud?" Yeah, I've got one cloud provider, but now I've got lots. >> Stu: Yeah, and Lance I'd love to hear what you're hearing from customers 'cause one of the things you talk to customers and oh, they have a multi-cloud strategy and when you dig in, first of all, every customer has a totally different environment, >> Lance: Right. >> Stu: and it reminds me, I spent the last two decades trying to help customers get out of their silos, and in some ways I'm a little worried that we've just created a whole bunch of new silos, that just don't happen to live in my data center, and we called it multi-cloud >> Lance: Right. >> Stu: because the strategy is oh, well I did this application for here and then oh, there's this service over here that I needed and then I sissified a bunch of stuff. So, tell me we've got it all figured out. Customers, they have a good strategy, they're really sharp as to where they're going, and the future is bright. >> Lance: Absolutely. Now the reality of that is, (laughs) that in fact, you're absolutely right. Unwittingly or unknowingly we've gotten to a path of history repeating itself where I'm creating new silos of information and data. So, you're absolutely right. Organizations start out with a point solution for a particular application or a particular data set or acquired a company and so brought in this new thing. And pretty soon, I have no idea what I've got in the Singapore office versus the London office versus New York, right, so. And how do I reconcile that and bring it back together? So I've got that same old problem that, if you've been around in the industry for a few years, we saw 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I've got to bring my silos of information together. And so, yeah you're right. It's suddenly a new, same old challenge all over again. Alright, so and that's why it's become a focus area because I suddenly have fragmented, disconnected application and data silos. So that's really where Commvault, turns out, can really help because sometimes it's a matter of consolidation. You know what, I need to get down from three locations to two, or four to one, or whatever the case may be, some sort of consolidation. And usually there's some cost savings involved there. And or, it's I got these multiple solutions that are out there and I've got no control and I have no visibility, I know I'm exposed so, I've got a risk factor now that I didn't have before. So when you start to blend all of those together, you're absolutely right, it's the same old story again, right. >> Keith: Industry versus vertical versus use case, you've given us a couple of different ones. Use cases, reducing costs, consolidation, even multi-cloud in itself is a use case. But, if you're an enterprise software company, if you're an enterprise IT company, you're challenged as you talk to different industries about specific solutions. You got to tailor solutions to industries. Talk about some of the industries that Commvault has come to solve specific problems for. >> Lance: Right, well I think there's a lot, to be honest, right, because every company faces those set of challenges. I think where it gets really interesting is in highly regulated industries, right. So, you think about biopharmaceuticals, you think about financial services, or certainly in the government space, in the federal space. And they have a whole set of unique challenges there because you're dealing with top secret clouds and you're dealing with, you know, some special concerns there. I think where it gets of particular interest is when I've got all those fragmented or disconnected silos, is that I need to address my compliant's concerns. I need to understand the data for more than just is it protected and could I recover it in a specific amount of time? I actually need to be able to show that I have it and prove that what I've got and be able to address specific industry regulations that are unique to my particular industry. So, that's where we start to see very specific use cases that kind of get down from the generic or the general, down to the very specific how do I manage this data and how do I understand what I have? And then of course you get into, you know, can you prove what you've got? Can you go out and retrieve it? And there's all sort of, you know, regulations along that that I've got to adhere to. But that can be addressed once I have that full index, an understanding of what my environment's like. Now, I can go out and locate that information, I can retrieve it when I need to, and actually open it up from a persona based access perspective, let specific people in an organization have access just to the limited data sets that they need, alright. So that comes into play a lot, especially, for example, every organization, right, you've got database admins, you've got critical tier zero applications that you need need to manage. It's your CRM system, it's your supply chain management system. If it goes down, you know, people freak out, alright. So, and I want to be able to provide, you know, self-service access to information for those people. So I've got a well-managed understanding of my environment, but then I'm able to dole out access to the individuals that need it when they need it and they don't have to come ask us or ask IT or ask anybody else, you know, for that information. >> Stu: Yeah, Lance as we watch the cust-to-cust companies really understand that data is very valuable, we have a transition that's going on. Traditional customer for Commvault, you're talking about things like RPO and RTO and the like. And, you know, you've got the admins of the world trying to figure out how they do their jobs and things like, okay, backup Windows of the past versus recovery and all those moving pieces. As opposed to today, you talk about the value of data, these are board-level discussions. >> Lance: Right. >> Stu: You've got the C-Suite that you're working with. We talked to a few of your teams about, well, you've got the top down and the bottom up. How are you helping them and what conversations do you have with them? >> Lance: They are entirely different conversations, right. IT is serving the business, as we all know, right. You know, maybe a bit cliché, sorry. >> Stu: Hopefully, if they're doing their job right, they're responding to and actually doing what they need to. >> Lance: Why am I here? Oh, that's right! To serve the business. Yeah, let's try that. So, anyways, there's that delivery of data, but you're absolutely right. The utilization of data and how it's consumed and the understanding that I can get from it, that is an entirely different conversation and, you're right, it is. It's a business unit discussion, you know, it's a line of business discussion at the very least, and it's probably a senior executive discussion because with that additional visibility, I'm then able to make much better, at least theoretically, better business decisions and because I've got more information to draw from. So, you're right, in terms of the conversation, we're not talking about strictly data protection. It's like, yes, when your data is understood, here's what else you can do with it. And then you got to tailor that to the specific industry, specific vertical, and a little more specific to that particular conversation. >> Keith: So Lance, give us a feel for that conversation that's happening here at Commvault GO, 2,000 people, over 150 sessions, education focused event, and there's different personas. I'll let the focus on that executive persona a little bit. I got you in front of the SVP of some group, the CDO. What's the Commvault story? Why Commvault over any other data protection company? >> Lance: I like to think of it as the proverbial, killing two birds with one stone, right. So, is my data growing? Oh, yeah, right. You're never going to hear someone say, you know data is shrinking, I have less to worry about. I mean, I've been in the industry a couple years now, give or take, and it's just never going to happen, right. So, you don't have to worry about that. With that in mind, the need to be able to have the visibility is continuing to increase. So, you see the rise of a chief data officer and what are they concerned about? They're concerned about utilizing data in ways that they were previously never able to do. And so, when we have those conversations, it's one of if I'm going to kill two birds with one stone, I'm going to be able to not only protect my data, but I'm going to give you additional visibility that you didn't have before because I'm providing you visibility into all of the secondary data and the application protection and I'm allowing you to be, ultimately, more flexible because now you're able to actually move data where you need it and expand your data center in ways you previously could not. So, I want to move from one cloud to the other. No problem, I can do that. I want to finally move, finally get off of tape and consolidate my environments and move either to an on premises environment or to a cloud. Not a problem. I can come back, we see customers that are coming back to on premises from cloud in some cases just for particular use cases. So the conversations that we have with a CEO, will just stick with a CEO as an example, are around better utilization of the data and better risk mitigation around that data, alright. So I've had a number of conversations related to that where we were concerned about not, you know, everybody talks about ransomware, but in general, attacks on the business and it's not if it's when, so how do I make sure that I can keep my business up and running? And so, it's that broader perspective that you have around how I manage data and how I deliver it to the business. That's what they care about, alright. That's crazy you're protected by the way, that's sort of important too. But what I can do with it and how I deliver it to my lines of business, that's where the interest starts to lie in a CEO level conversation. >> Yeah, Lance. One of the things everybody loves coming to a show like this, you get some of those great user stories. This morning, we had the State of Colorado on talking about how they're recovering from ransomware. >> Right, right, right. >> We had American Pacific Mortgage on talking about just the scale. You talked about the growing data and how, you know, using Commvault they're able to manage that much better. Any other specific examples of kind of interesting use cases or good customer stories you might have? >> Yeah, we recently had a very large customer that was looking to consolidate their environment. It was a classic case of I got offices spread around the world and they had a number of different point solutions, right. So, without naming names, I've got different protection solutions for different areas. I've got different administrators. I've got different policies. And, you know, they hit a scenario where they were exposed from a risk perspective that that particular set of data was not covered as they thought it was because they didn't have standardization of policies, standardized policies I should say, around how they manage, access, and the retention of that data. And so that, sometimes there's that forcing event that says we have a problem here, we need to do something about this. Alright so, in their case, they we able to consolidate from multiple solutions down to Commvault where they could have predefined set of policies in place around the data and not only for what they were gathering in. So as they ingested it or moved data under Commvault's management, they were able to automatically assign policies to that, but then in their case, they were also acquiring other companies. So, they were acquiring a rather large European entity, and when they were bringing that organization in, they wanted to make sure that they did so in a way that didn't expose the risk again in the future because if we're going to grow as a business with an acquisition strategy, we've got to be able to make sure that what comes into the organization is consistent. >> So, being partner presence here, Commvault has been pretty direct and forward talking about how you're shifting from a direct sales model and having gone through partners to help provide the solutions to these challenges. Talk through, how do you enable partners, or how do you encourage partners, this is a crowded market, there's a lot of investment in the area of data protection, how do you rise to the top of the partner list and for partners putting your solutions in front of their customers? >> Lance: Right, there's two ways we do that, right. So, the first, because you're absolutely right. You know, partners are key to our growth and we can be key to their growth and success. No doubt about it. So, the first thing is give them something that's going to really make them successful. So, instead, if I'm a partner, I want the flexibility to be able to address a wider variety of demands. I want to be able to go in to a potential prospect and say yeah, I can address this, but also I have the software behind the scenes, Commvault, to be able to attack multiple other scenarios for you. Oh and by the way, it's all in one and you've got one solution to be able to address all that. So, one of the key ways that we differentiate, and you're right, in a very crowded market, alright, that says we should really have Commvault in the back of your mind, at the top of your list. If you're going in and seeing scenarios where point solutions simply doesn't do it or paints you into a corner where you're not going to be able to help them grow down the future. The other thing partners obviously want, as every business wants, is repeat business. I want to be able to go back in and expand, I want to build my footprint out, and if I can go in with a partner that enables me to do that, then I've got long term opportunity versus just going in like, hey, I made a quick sale and I'm out and good luck to you, right. >> Stu: Lance, last thing I wanted to ask you. Last year, GDPR was the talk of every single show like this. >> Lance: Yeah, I've seem to have heard about that, yeah. >> Stu: We got a good education. My boss actually read through the entire specs. I read the Cliffnotes version >> Lance: Okay, yeah, me too. >> Stu: and then talked to a lot of smart people about it. California is looking at some new legislation, but what's the latest on that? It seems like, you know, I know some of the lawsuits already happening at some of the biggest companies in Europe, you know, from a technology standpoint, but what are you hearing and how has Commvault helped customers understand kind of today and future legislation? >> Lance: Yeah, I think, you know what's interesting? When we looked at, you know, everybody was kind of marching up to the GDPR date as if it was Y2K all over again. >> Stu: Right. >> Lance: Not that I remember that of course. I'm too young for that. (Keith laughs) You know, it was like May 25th, May 25th, the sky's going to fall, and we all knew that, hey listen, that day is going to come and go and somebody's going to be made an example at some point, right. And sure enough, that's starting to happen. And you know, it's a good thing. It's building the awareness that we tried to educate people, tried to get the word out, you know, it happens longer. Why wait past May 25th? It's still going on, right. So, for a lot of customers that we're talking to, they're looking to, they've had a plan in place and they're moving there gradually, it wasn't right away, but I think sometimes when you see those things in the press about there's actually being a finesse, it's actually real and it brings it to life like, uh we should really do something here, right. So, I think, honestly, that's a process that's going to continue for years. You know, I've heard everything from we'll just pay the fine, which is a risky strategy both probably on a personal level as well as professional. (Keith laughs) You wouldn't want to bet your career on that strategy. With the advent of, we also always knew that hey, GDPR is one of these set of regulations. There will be others, there are others. And you have to be able to adhere to those no matter where you live on the Earth. So, you know, long story short, I think it's a continuing evolution. We help customers understand their data. So, you know, through our Commvault activate product, we can do it. Even if you're not using Commvault for backup and recovery, you're actually able to go out and scan your environment and get a better understanding of what personal information you've got under lock and key, what you've got in your environment, and be able to ascertain well okay, where's my risk, where am I exposed? And then I can start to put a plan in place to mitigate that. So, I think it'll be going on for quite some time in terms of especially as new laws like the California law. I always forget the letters and numbers associated with it, but it's same idea around personal privacy. And I think, you know, we've had the Patriot Act for a long time, right, where foreign governments are concerned about data sovereignty and where data lives and that's going to continue to increase, you know, for a variety of reasons. So organizations have to really know where their data is and what's encapsulated within that data and that's where the Commvault data platform, the index, actually shines to uncover that information. >> Stu: Well, Lance Shaw, I really appreciate you sharing with us where your customers are in a lot of these really important issues. For Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman. We'll be back with more coverage here from Commvault Go in Nashville, Tennessee. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

from around the globe it's thecube covering space and cyber security symposium 2020 hosted by cal poly hello everyone welcome to the space and cyber security symposium 2020 hosted by cal poly where the intersection of space and security are coming together i'm john furrier your host with thecube here in california i want to welcome our featured guest lieutenant general john f thompson with the united states space force approach to cyber security that's the topic of this session and of course he's the commander of the space and missile system center in los angeles air force base also heading up space force general thank you for coming on really appreciate you kicking this off welcome to the symposium hey so uh thank you very much john for that very kind introduction also uh very much thank you to cal poly uh for this opportunity to speak to this audience today also a special shout out to one of the organizers uh dustin brun for all of his work uh helping uh get us uh to this point uh ladies and gentlemen as uh as uh john mentioned uh i'm jt thompson uh i lead the 6 000 men and women of the united states space forces space and missile system center which is headquartered here at los angeles air force base in el segundo if you're not quite sure where that's at it's about a mile and a half from lax this is our main operating location but we do have a number of other operating locations around the country with about 500 people at kirtland air force base in albuquerque new mexico uh and about another 500 people on the front range of the rockies uh between colorado springs and uh and denver plus a smattering of other much smaller operating locations nationwide uh we're responsible for uh acquiring developing and sustaining the united states space force's critical space assets that includes the satellites in the space layer and also on the ground layer our ground segments to operate those satellites and we also are in charge of procuring launch services for the u.s space force and a number of our critical mission partners across the uh department of defense and the intelligence community um just as a couple of examples of some of the things we do if you're unfamiliar with our work we developed and currently sustained the 31 satellite gps constellation that satellite constellation while originally intended to help with global navigation those gps signals have provided trillions of dollars in unanticipated value to the global economy uh over the past three decades i mean gps is everywhere i think everybody realizes that agriculture banking the stock market the airline industry uh separate and distinct navigation systems it's really pervasive across both the capabilities for our department of defense and capabilities for our economy and and individuals billions of individuals across our country and the planet some of the other work we do for instance in the communications sector uh secure communications satellites that we design and build that link america's sons and daughters serving in the military around the world and really enable real-time support and comms for our deployed forces and those of our allies we also acquire uh infrared missile warning satellites uh that monitor the planet for missile launches and provide advanced warning uh to the u.s homeland and to our allies uh in case some of those missile launches are uh nefarious um on a note that's probably a lot closer to home maybe a lot closer to home than many of us want to think about here in the state of california in 2018 smc jumped through a bunch of red tape and bureaucracy uh to partner with the u.s forest service during the two of the largest wildfires in the state's history the camp and woolsey fires in northern california as those fires spread out of control we created processes on the fly to share data from our missile warning satellites those are satellites that are systems that are purpose built to see heat sources from thousands of miles above the planet and we collaborated with the us forest service so that firefighters on the ground uh could track those fires more in real time and better forecast fires and where they were spreading thereby saving lives and and property by identifying hot spots and flare-ups for firefighters that data that we were able to working with our contractors pass to the u.s forest service and authorities here in california was passed in less than an hour as it was collected to get it into the hands of the emergency responders the first responders as quickly as possible and doing that in an hour greatly surpassed what was available from some of the other assets in the airborne and ground-based fire spotters it was really instrumental in fighting those fires and stopping their spread we've continued uh that involvement in recent years using multiple systems to support firefighters across the western u.s this fall as they battled numerous wildfires that unfortunately continue working together with the u.s forest service and with other partners uh we like to make uh we like to think that we made a difference here but there's still a lot more work to go and i think that we should always be asking ourselves uh what else can space data be used for and how can we more rapidly get that space data to uh stakeholders so that they can use it for for purposes of good if you will how else can we protect our nation how else can we protect our friends and allies um i think a major component of the of the discussion that we will have throughout this conference is that the space landscape has changed rapidly and continues to change rapidly um just over the past few years uh john and i were talking before we went live here and 80 nations now have uh space programs 80 nearly 80 space faring nations on the planet um if you just look at one mission area that uh the department of defense is interested in and that's small launch there are currently over a hundred different small launch companies uh within the u.s industrial base vying for commercial dod and civil uh payload capabilities uh mostly to low earth orbit it's it's just truly a remarkable time if you factor in those things like artificial intelligence and machine learning um where we're revolutionary revolutionizing really uh the ways that we generate process and use data i mean it's really remarkable in 2016 so if you think about this four years ago uh nasa estimated that there were 28 terabytes of information transiting their space network each day and that was four years ago um uh obviously we've got a lot of desire to work with a lot of the people in the audience of this congress or in this conference uh we need to work with big thinkers like many of you to answer questions on how best we apply data analytics to extract value and meaning from that data we need new generations of thinkers to help apply cutting edge edge theories of data mining cyber behaviorism and internet of things 2.0 it's just truly a remarkable time uh to be in the space business and the cyber aspects of the states of the space business are truly truly daunting and important to uh to all of us um integrating cyber security into our space systems both commercial and government is a mandate um it's no longer just a nice to have as the us space force and department of the air force leadership has said many times over the past couple of years space is becoming congested and contested and that contested aspect means that we've got to focus on cyber security uh in the same way that the banking industry and cyber commerce focus on uh cyber security day in and day out the value of the data and services provided is really directly tied to the integrity and availability of that data and services from the space layer from the ground control segments associated with it and this value is not just military it's also economic and it's not just american it's also a value for the entire world particularly particularly our allies as we all depend upon space and space systems your neighbors and friends here in california that are employed at the space and missile system center uh work with network defenders we work with our commercial contractors and our systems developers um our international allies and partners to try and build as secure and resilient systems as we can from the ground up that keep the global commons of space free and open for exploration and for commerce um as john and i were talking earlier before we came online there's an aspect of cyber security for space systems especially for some of our legacy systems that's more how do we bolt this on because we fielded those space systems a number of years ago and the the challenges of cyber security in the space domain have grown so we have a part that we have to worry about bolting it on but then we have to worry about building it in as we as we field new systems and build in a flexibility that that realizes that the cyber threat or the cyber security landscape will evolve over time it's not just going to be stagnant there will always be new vulnerabilities and new threat vectors that we always have to look at look uh as secretary barrett who is our secretary of the air force likes to say most americans use space before they have their first cup of coffee in the morning the american way of life really depends on space and as part of the united states space force we work with defense leaders our congress joint and international military teammates and industry to ensure american leadership in space i really thank you for this opportunity to address the audience today john and thanks so much to cal poly for letting me be one of the speakers at this event i really look forward to this for uh several months and so with that i look forward to your questions as we kind of move along here general thank you very much for the awesome uh introductory statement uh for the folks watching on the stream brigadier general carthan is going to be in the chat answering any questions feel free to chat away he's the vice commander of space and missile systems center he'll be available um a couple comments from your keynote before i get to my questions because it just jumped in my head you mentioned the benefits of say space but the fires in california we're living that here that's really real time that's a benefit you also mentioned the ability for more people launching payloads into space and i only imagine moore's law smaller faster cheaper applies to rockets too so i'm imagining you have the benefits of space and you have now more potential objects flying out sanctioned and maybe unsanctioned so you know is it going to be more rules around that i mean this is an interesting question because it's exciting space force but for all the good there is potentially bad out there yeah so i i john i think the uh i think the basics of your question is as space becomes more congested and contested is there a need for more international norms of how satellites fly in space what kind of basic features satellites have to perhaps deorbit themselves what kind of basic protections does do all satellites should all satellites be afforded as part of a peaceful global commons of space i think those are all fantastic questions and i know that u.s and many uh allied policy makers are looking very very hard at those kinds of questions in terms of what are the norms of behavior and how we uh you know how how we field and field is the military term but you know how we uh populate uh using civil or uh commercial terms uh that space layer at different altitudes uh low earth orbit mid mid-earth orbit geosynchronous earth orbit different kinds of orbits uh what the kind of mission areas we accomplish from space that's all things that need to be definitely taken into account as uh as the place gets a little bit not a little bit as the place gets increasingly more popular day in and day out well i'm super excited for space force i know that a new generation of young folks are really interested in it's an emerging changing great space the focus here at this conference is space and cyber security intersection i'd like to get your thoughts on the approach that space force is taking to cyber security and how it impacts our national goals here in the united states yeah yeah so that's a that's a great question john let me let me talk about in two uh two basic ways but number one is and and i know um some people in the audience this might make them a little bit uncomfortable but i have to talk about the threat right um and then relative to that threat i really have to talk about the importance of uh of cyber and specifically cyber security as it relates to that threat um the threats that we face um really represent a new era of warfare and that new era of warfare involves both space and cyber uh we've seen a lot of action in recent months uh from certain countries notably china and russia uh that have threatened what i referred to earlier as the peaceful global commons of space for example uh it through many unclassified sources and media sources everybody should understand that um uh the russians have been testing on orbit uh anti-satellite capabilities it's been very clear if you were following just the week before last the department of defense released its uh 2020 military and security developments involving the people's republic of china um uh and uh it was very clear that china is developing asats electronic jammers directed energy weapons and most relevant to today's discussion offensive cyber uh capabilities there are kinetic threats uh that are very very easy to see but a cyber attack against a critical uh command and control site or against a particular spacecraft could be just as devastating to the system and our war fighters in the case of gps and important to note that that gps system also impacts many civilians who are dependent upon those systems from a first response perspective and emergency services a cyber attack against a ground control site could cause operators to lose control of a spacecraft or an attacker could feed spoofed data to a system to mislead operators so that they send emergency services personnel to the to the wrong address right attacks on spacecraft on orbit whether directly via a network of intrusion or enabled through malware introduced during the systems production uh while we're building the satellite can [ __ ] or corrupt the data denial of service type attacks on our global networks obviously would disrupt our data flow and interfere with ongoing operations and satellite control i mean if gps went down i you know i hesitate to say it this way because we might elicit some screams from the audience but if gps went down a starbucks wouldn't be able to handle your mobile order uber drivers wouldn't be able to find you and domino's certainly certainly wouldn't be able to get there in 30 minutes or less right so with a little bit of tongue-in-cheek there from a military operations perspective it's dead serious um uh we have become accustomed in the commercial world to threats like lance ransomware and malware and those things have unfortunately become commonplace in commercial terrestrial networks and computer systems however what we're seeing is that our adversaries with the increased competition in space these same techniques are being retooled if you will to use against our national security space systems uh day in and day out um as i said during my opening remarks on the importance of cyber the value of these systems is directly tied to their integrity if commanders in the field uh firefighters in california or baristas in in starbucks can't trust the data they see they're receiving then that really harms their decision-making capabilities one of the big trends we've recently seen is the mood move towards proliferated leo uh uh constellations obviously uh spacex's uh starlink uh on the commercial side and on the military side the work that darpa and my organization smc are doing on blackjack and casino as well as some space transport layer constellation work that the space development agency is designing are all really really important types of mesh network systems that will revolutionize how we plan and field warfighting systems and commercial communications and internet providing systems but they're also heavily reliant on cyber security uh we've got to make sure that they are secured to avoid an accident or international damage uh loss of control of these constellations really could be catastrophic from both a mission perspective or from uh you know satellites tumbling out of low earth orbit perspective another trend is introductions in artificial intelligence and machine learning on board spacecraft or at the edge our satellites are really not so much hardware systems with a little software anymore in the commercial sector and in the defense sector they're basically flying boxes full of software right and we need to ensure the data that we're getting out of those flying boxes full of software are helping us base our decisions on accurate data and algorithms govern governing the right actions and that those uh that those systems are impervious to the extent possible uh to nefarious uh modifications so in summation a cyber security is vital element of everything in our national security space goals and i would argue for our national uh goals uh writ large including uh economic and information uh uh dimensions uh the space force leadership at all levels uh from uh some of the brand new second lieutenants that general raymond uh swore into the space force this morning uh ceremonially from the uh air force association's air space and cyberspace conference uh to the various highest levels general raymond uh general d t thompson myself and a number of other senior leaders in this enterprise we've got to make sure that we're all working together to keep cyber security at the forefront of our space systems because it they absolutely depend on it you know you mentioned uh hardware software threats opportunities challenges i want to ask you because you you got me thinking of the minute there around infrastructure i mean we've heard critical infrastructure you know grids here on on earth you're talking about critical infrastructure a redefinition of what critical infrastructure is an extension of what we have so i'd love to get your thoughts about space force's view of that critical infrastructure vis-a-vis the threat vectors because you know the term threat vectors has been kicked around in the cyber space oh yeah threat vectors they're always increasing the surface area well if the surface area is from space it's an unlimited surface area so you got different vectors so you got new critical infrastructure developing real time really fast and you got an expanded threat vector landscape putting that in perspective for the folks that aren't really inside the ropes on these critical issues how would you explain this and how would you talk about those two things well so i tell you um i just like um uh just like uh i'm sure people in the security side or the cyber security side of the business in the banking industry feel they feel like it's uh all possible threat vectors represent a dramatic and protect potentially existential threat to all of the dollars that they have in the banking system to the financial sector on the department of defense side we've got to have sort of the same mindset um that threat vector from to and through space against critical space systems ground segments the launch enterprise or transportation uh to orbit and the various different uh domains within uh within space itself like i mentioned before uh leo mio and geo-based satellites with different orbits all of the different mission areas that are accomplished from space that i mentioned earlier some that i didn't mention like weather tactical or wide band communications uh various new features of space control all of those are things that we have to worry about from a cyber security uh threat perspective and it's a it's a daunting challenge right now right yeah it's awesome and one of the things we've been following on the hardware side here in the on the ground is the supply chain we've seen you know malware being you know really put into really obscure hardware who manufactures it as being outsourced obviously government has restrictions but with the private sector uh you mentioned china and and the us kind of working together across these these peaceful areas but you got to look at the supply chain how does the supply chain the security aspect impact the mission of the u.s space force yeah yeah so so um how about another um just in terms of an example another kind of california-based historical example right um the very first u.s satellite uh explorer one was built by uh the jet propulsion uh laboratory folks uh not far from here in el segundo up in uh up in pasadena um that satellite when it was first built in the late 50s uh weighed a little bit over 30 pounds and i'm sure that each and every part was custom made and definitely made by u.s companies fast forward to today the global supply chain is so tightly coupled and frankly many industries are so specialized almost specialized regionally around the planet we focus every day to guarantee the integrity of every component that we put in our space systems is absolutely critical to the operations of those satellites and we're dependent upon them but it becomes more difficult and more difficult to understand the the heritage if you will of some of the parts that are used the thousands of parts that are used in some of our satellites that are literally school bus sized right the space industry especially uh national security space sector um uh is relatively small compared to other commercial industries and we're moving to towards using more and more parts uh from non-us companies uh cyber security and cyber awareness have to be baked in from the beginning if we're going to be using parts that maybe we don't necessarily um understand 100 percent like an explorer one uh the the lineage of that particular part the environmental difficulties in space are well known the radiation environment the temperature extremes the vacuum those require specialized component and the us military is not the only uh customer in that space in fact we're definitely not the dominant customer uh in space anymore all those factors require us along with our other government partners and many different commercial space organizations to keep a very close eye on our supply chains from a quality perspective a security perspective and availability um there's open source reporting on supply training intrusions from um many different breaches of commercial retailers to the infectious spread of uh you know compromised patches if you will and our adversaries are aware of these techniques as i mentioned earlier with other forms of attack considering our supply chains and development networks really becomes fair game for our adversaries so we have to uh take that threat seriously um between the government and industry sectors here in the u.s we're also working with our industry partners to enact stronger defenses and assess our own vulnerabilities last fall we completed an extensive review of all of our major contracts here at space and missile system center to determine the levels of cyber security requirements we've implemented across our portfolio and it sounds really kind of you know businessy geeky if you will you know hey we looked at our contracts to make sure that we had the right clauses in our contracts to address cyber security as dynamically as we possibly could and so we found ourselves having to add new language to our contracts to require system developers to implement some more advanced uh protective measures in this evolving cyber security environment so that data handling and supply chain perspective uh protections um from contract inception to launch and operations were taken into account uh cyber security really is a key performance parameter for us now it's as important as the the mission performance of the system it's as important as cost it's as important as schedule because if we deliver the perfect system on time and on cost uh it can perform that missile warning or that communications mis mission perfectly but it's not cyber secure if it doesn't have cyber protections built into it or the ability to implement mitigations against cyber uh threats then we've essentially fielded a shoe box in space that doesn't do the k the the war fighter or the nation uh any good um supply chain risk management is a is a major challenge for us uh we're doing a lot to coordinate with our industry partners uh we're all facing it head on uh to try and build secure and trusted components uh that keep our confidence as leaders firefighters and baristas uh as the case may be uh but it is a challenge and we're trying to rise to that challenge you know this so exciting this new area because it really touches everything you know talk about geeking out on on the tech the hardware the systems but also you put your kind of mba hat on you go what's the roi of the extra development and how you how things get built because the always the exciting thing for space geeks is like you're building cool stuff people love it's it's exciting but you still have to build and cyber security has proven that security has to be baked in from the beginning and be thought as a system architecture so you're still building things which means you've got to acquire things you got to acquire parts you got to acquire build software and and sustain it how is security impacting the acquisition and the sustainment of these systems for space yeah from initial development uh through planning for the acquisition design development fielding or production fielding and sustainment it impacts all aspects of of the life cycle john uh we simply especially from the concept of baking in cyber security uh we can't wait until something is built and then try and figure out how to make it cyber secure so we've moved way further uh towards working side by side with our system developers to strengthen cyber security from the very beginning of a system's development cyber security and the resilience associated with it really have to be treated as a key system attribute as i mentioned earlier equivalent with data rates or other metrics of performance we like to talk in uh in the space world about uh mission assurance and mission assurance has always you know sort of taken us as we as we technically geek out right mission assurance has always taken us to the will this system work in space right can it work in a vacuum can it work in you know as it as it uh you know transfers through uh the van allen radiation belt or through the the um the southern hemisphere's electromagnetic anomaly right will it work out in space and now from a resiliency perspective yeah it has to work in space it's got to be functional in space but it's also got to be resistant to these cyber security threats it's it's not just i think uh general dt thompson quoted this term it's not just widget assurance anymore it's mission assurance um uh how does that satellite uh operator that ground control segment operate while under attack so let me break your question a little bit uh just for purposes of discussion into into really two parts uh cyber uh for cyber security for systems that are new and cyber security uh for systems that are in sustainment or kind of old and legacy um obviously there's cyber vulnerabilities that threaten both and we really have to employ different strategies for for defense of of each one for new systems uh we're desperately trying to implement across the department of defense in particular in the space world a kind of a devsecops methodology and practice to delivering software faster and with greater security for our space systems here at smc we have a program called enterprise ground services which is a tool kit basically a collection of tools for common command and control of different satellite systems egs as we call it has an integrated suite for defensive cyber capabilities network operators can use these tools to gain unprecedented insight to data flows and to monitor space network traffic for anomalies or other potential indicators of of bad behavior malicious behavior if you will um uh it's rudimentary at this point but because we're using devsecops and that incremental development approach as we scale it it just becomes more and more capable you know every every product increment that we field here at uh at uh la air force base uh uh we have the united space space forces west coast software factory which we've dubbed kobayashi maru they're using those agile devops uh software development practices uh to deliver uh space awareness software uh to the combined space operations center uh affectionately called the csp that c-spock is just down the road uh from cal poly uh there in san luis obispo at vandenberg air force base they've securely linked the c-spock with other space operation centers around the planet our allies australia canada and the uk uh we're partnering with all of them to enable secure and enhanced combined space operations so lots of new stuff going on as we bake in new development uh capabilities for our our space systems but as i mentioned earlier we've got large constellations on satellite of satellites on orbit right now some of them are well in excess of a decade or more old on orbit and so the design aspects of those satellites are several decades old and so but we still have to worry about them because they're critical to our space capabilities um we've been working with an air force materiel command organization uh called crows which stands for the cyber resiliency office for uh weapon systems to assess all of those legacy platforms from a cyber security perspective and develop defensive strategies and potential hardware and software upgrades to those systems to better enable them to to live through this increasingly cyber security uh concerned era that we currently live in our industry partners have been critical to to both of those different avenues both new systems and legacy systems we're working closely with them to defend and upgrade uh national assets and develop the capabilities to do similar with uh with new national assets coming online the vulnerabilities of our space systems really kind of threaten the way we've done business in the past both militarily and in the case of gps economically the impacts of that cyber security risk are clear in our acquisition and sustainment processes but i've got to tell you it that as the threat vectors change as the vulnerabilities change we've got to be nimble enough agile enough to be able to bounce back and forth we can't just say uh many people in the audience are probably familiar with the rmf or the risk management framework approach to um to reviewing uh the cyber security of a system we can't have program managers and engineers just accomplish an rmf on a system and then hey high five we're all good uh it's a journey not a destination that's cyber security and it's a constant battle rhythm throughout a weapon systems life cycle not just a single event i want to get to this commercial business needs and your needs on the next question but before i go there you mentioned the agile and i see that clearly because when you have accelerated innovation cycles you've got to be faster and we saw this in the computer industry mainframes mini computers and then when you started getting beyond me when the internet hit and pcs came out you saw the big enterprises the banks and and government start to work with startups it used to be a joke in the entrepreneurial circles is that you know there's no way if you're a startup you're ever going to get a contract with a big business enterprise now that used to be for public sector and certainly uh for you guys so as you see startups out there and there's acquisition involved i'm sure would love to love to have a contract with space force there's an roi calculation where if it's in space and you have a sustainment view edit software you might have a new kind of business model that could be attractive to startups could you share your thoughts on the folks who want to be a supplier to you uh whether they're a startup or an existing business that wants to be agile but they might not be that big company we are john that's a fantastic question we are desperately trying to reach out to to those new space advocates to those startups to those um what we sometimes refer to within the department of defense those non-traditional uh defense contractors a couple of things just for uh thinking purposes on some of the things that we're trying to highlight um uh three years ago we created here at uh space and missile system center uh the space enterprise consortium uh to provide a platform uh a contractual vehicle really to enable us to rapidly prototype uh development of space systems and to collaborate uh between the u.s space force uh traditional defense contractors non-traditional vendors like startups and even some academic institutions uh spec as we call it space enterprise consortium uses a specialized contracting tool to get contracts uh awarded quickly many in the audience may be familiar with other transaction agreements and that's what spec is based on and so far in just three years spec has awarded 75 different uh prototyping contracts worth over 800 million dollars with a 36 reduction in time to award and because it's a consortium based competition for um for these kinds of prototyping efforts the barrier to entry for small and non-traditional for startups even for academic institutions to be able to compete for these kinds of prototypings is really lowered right um uh these types of partnerships uh that we've been working through on spec uh have really helped us work with smaller companies who might not have the background or expertise in dealing with the government or in working with cyber security uh for their systems both their developmental systems and the systems that they're designing and trying to build we want to provide ways for companies large and small to partner together and support um uh kind of mutually beneficial uh relationships between all um recently uh at the annual air force association uh conference that i mentioned earlier i moderated a panel with several space industry leaders uh all from big traditional defense contractors by the way and they all stressed the importance of building bridges and partnerships uh between major contractors in the defense industry and new entrants uh and that helps us capture the benefits of speed and agility that come with small companies and startups as well as the expertise and specialized skill sets of some of those uh larger contractors uh that we rely on day in and day out advanced cyber security protections and utilization of secure facilities are just a couple of things that i think we could be prioritizing more so in those collaborations as i mentioned earlier the spec has been very successful in awarding a number of different prototyping contracts and large dollar values and it's just going to get better right there's over 400 members of the space enterprise consortium 80 of them are non-traditional kinds of vendors and we just love working with them another thing that many people in the audience may be familiar with in terms of our outreach to innovators uh if you will and innovators that include uh cyber security experts is our space pitch day events right so we held our first event last november in san francisco uh where we awarded over a two-day period about 46 million dollars to 30 different companies um that had potentially game-changing ideas these were phase two small business innovative research efforts uh that we awarded with cash on the spot uh we're planning on holding our second space pitch day in the spring of 2021. uh we're planning on doing it right here in los angeles uh covent 19 environment permitting um and we think that these are you know fantastic uh uh venues for identifying and working with high-speed startups startups and small businesses who are interested in uh really truly partnering with the us air force it's a as i said before it's a really exciting time to be a part of this business uh and working with the innovation economy uh is something that the department of defense uh really needs to do in that um the innovation that we used to think was ours you know that 80 percent of the industrial-based innovation that came from the department of defense uh the the script has been flipped there and so now more than 70 percent uh particularly in space innovation uh comes from the commercial sector not from uh not from the defense business itself and so um that's a tsunami of uh investment and a tsunami of uh capability and i need to figure out how to get my surfboard out and ride it you know what i mean yeah i mean it's one of those things where the flip the script has been flipped but it's exciting because it's impacting everything are you talking about systems architecture you're talking about software you're talking about a business model you talk about devsecops from a technical perspective but now you have a business model innovation all the theaters of uh are exploding in innovation technical business personnel this brings up the workforce challenge you've got the cyber needs for the u.s space force there's probably a great roi model for new kinds of software development that could be priced into contracts that's a entrepreneurial innovation you got the the business model theater you've got the personnel how does the industry adopt and change you guys are clearly driving this how does the industry adjust to you yeah so um i think a great way to answer that question is to just talk about the kind of people that we're trying to prioritize in the u.s space force from a from an acquisition perspective and in this particular case from a from a cyber security perspective as i mentioned earlier it's the most exciting time to be in space programs uh really since the days of apollo um uh you know just to put it in terms that you know maybe have an impact with the audience uh from 1957 until today approximately 9 000 satellites uh have been launched from the various space faring countries around the planet uh less than two thousand of those nine thousand are still up on orbit and operational and yet in the new space regime um players like spacex have plans to launch you know 12 000 satellites for some of their constellations alone it really is a remarkable time in terms of innovation and fielding of space capabilities and all of those space capabilities whether they're commercial civil or defense are going to require appropriate cyber security uh protections it's just a really exciting time uh to be working in stuff like this and so uh folks like the folks in this audience who have a passion about space and a passion about cyber security are just the kind of people that we want to work with because we need to make sure our systems are are secure and resilient we need folks that have technical and computing expertise engineering skills to be able to design cybersecure systems that can detect and mitigate attacks uh but we also as you alluded to we need people that have that business and um you know business acumen human networking background so that we can launch the startups and work with the non-traditional businesses uh help to bring them on board help to secure both their data and our data and uh and and make sure our processes and systems are are free as much as possible from uh uh from attack um for preparation for for audience members who are young and maybe thinking about getting into this uh trade space um you gotta be smart on digital networking uh you gotta understand basic internet protocols concepts uh programming languages uh database design uh learn what you can from penetration or vulnerability testing and and uh risk assessment i will tell you this and i don't think he will i know he will not mind me telling you this but you've got to be a lifelong learner and so two years ago i'm at home one evening and i get a phone call on my cell phone and it's my boss the commander of air force space command uh general j raymond who is now currently the chief of space operations and he is on temporary duty flying overseas he lands where he's going and he first thing he does when he lands is he calls me and he goes jt um while i was traveling um i noticed that there were e-books available on the commercial airliner i was traveling on and there was an e-book on something called scrumming and agile devsecops and i read it have you read it um and i said no sir but if you tell me what the title of the book is i will read it and so i got to go to my staff meeting um you know the very next week the next time we had a staff meeting and tell everybody in the stab meeting hey if the four star and the three star can read the book about scrumming then i'm pretty sure all of you around this table and all our lieutenants and our captains our gs13s all of our government employees can get smart on uh the scrumming development process and interestingly as another side i had a telephone call with him last year during the holidays where he was trying to take some leave and i said sir what are you up to today are you are you you know making eggnog for the event tonight or whatever and the chief of space operations told me no i'm trying to teach myself python i'm at lesson two and it's not going so well but i'm i'm gonna figure this out and so that kind of thing if the chief of staff or the you know the the the chief of space operations can prioritize scrumming and python language and innovation in his daily schedule then we're definitely looking for other people who can do that and we'll just say lower levels of rank uh throughout our entire space force enterprise um look i i we don't need to need people that can code a satellite from scratch but we need to know we need to have people that have a basic grasp of the programming basics and cyber security requirements and that can turn those things into into meaningful actions obviously in the space domain things like basic physics and orbital mechanics are also important uh space is not an intuitive uh domain so under understanding how things survive uh on orbit is really critical to making the right design and operational decisions and you know i know there's probably a lot because of this conference i know there's a probably a whole lot of high-speed cyber security experts out in the audience and i need those people in the u.s space force the the country is counting on it but i wouldn't discount having people that are just cyber aware or cyber savvy right i have contracting officers and logisticians and program managers and they don't have to be high-end cyber security experts but they have to be aware enough about it to be able to implement cyber security protections um into our space system so the skill set is is really really broad um our adversaries are pouring billions of dollars into uh define designing uh and fielding offensive and destructive space cyber security weapons right they've repeatedly shown really a blatant disregard of safety and international norms for good behavior on orbit and the cyber security aspects of our space systems is really a key battleground going forward so that we can maintain that as i mentioned before peaceful uh global commons of space we really need all hands on deck if you're interested in helping in uniform if you're interested in helping uh not in uniform uh but as a government employee a commercial or civil employee to help us make cyber security more important uh or more cape more able to be developed for our space systems then we'd really love to uh to work with you or have you on the team to build that safe and secure future for our space systems lieutenant general john thompson great insight thank you for sharing all that awesome stories too and motivation for the young next generation the united states space force approach of cyber security really amazing talk thank you for your time final parting question is as you look out and you had your magic wand what's your view for the next few years in terms of things that we could accomplish it's a super exciting time what do you hope for so um um first of all john thanks to you and and thanks to cal poly uh for the invitation and and thanks to everybody for uh for their interest in cyber security especially as it relates to space systems that's here at the conference um uh there's a quote and i'll read it here uh from uh bernard schriever who was the uh the founder if you will uh a legend in uh dod space the founder of the western development division which was a predecessor organization to space and missile systems center general shrever i think captures the essence of what how we see the next couple of years the world has an ample supply of people who can always come up with a dozen good reasons why new ideas will not work and should not be tried but the people who produce progress are breed apart they have the imagination the courage and the persistence to find solutions and so i think if you're hoping that the next few years of space innovation and cyber security innovation are going to be a pony ride at the county fair then perhaps you should look for another line of work because i think the next few years in space and cyber security innovation are going to be more like a rodeo um and a very dynamic rodeo as it goes it is a an awesome privilege to be part of this ecosystem it's really an honor for me to um to be able to play some small role uh in the space ecosystem and trying to improve it uh while i'm trying to improve the chances of uh of the united states of america in a uh in a space war fighting uh uh environment um and so i thank all of you for uh participating today and for this little bit of time that you've allowed me to share with you thank you sir thank you for your leadership and thank you for the for the time for this awesome event space and cyber security symposium 2020 i'm john furrier on behalf of cal poly thanks for watching [Music]

>> Narrator: From around the globe it's the CUBE with digital coverage of Mirantis Launchpad 2020, brought to you by Mirantis. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is the CUBE's coverage of Mirantis Launchpad 2020. And always love when we get to be able to talk to the practitioners that are using some of the technologies here. One of the interesting things we've been digging into is lens, the IDE in this space, as it's being referred to. So, happy to welcome to the program Matti Paksula. He is the founder and chief technology officer at supervisor.com. Matti, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you thank you for having me. >> So, if you could just, you help us understand, you know, your company as supervisor.com. What's the background as the founder? What was kind of the impetus to creating that business too? >> Sure, so, supervisor was this like super simple because we believe, and we know, that the only way to tests websites, if they can handle load, for example, eCommerce sites on black Friday, or when you, or, just about to make a product launch or that kind of stuff. Is just by sending real web browsers to the site. That's actually click and scroll and do it all the same things as a real users will do. But, and unlike, our secret thing is that we can do it, like before Black Friday. So, if somebody wants to simulate if they can handle like 2000 users or 5000 users, then they can use supervisor.com to make it happen like today. >> So, I'm just curious, you know, the concern always is about the DDoS attacks and the like. Do you help companies along that line too? Or is it more the, the testing for proper traffic and we leave the security aspect to somebody else? >> Yeah, well, like with any load testing tool, you have to verify yourself somehow. And with us, it's super easy because we integrated with Google analytics. And if you authorize us to read your Google Analytics Data, then we know that you are allowed to test your site. >> Wonderful, well, as I said in the lead, you're using lens, my understanding you've been using it since the early day, of course, a technology that closed source Mirantis has, has acquired that and the team, it's now also open source. So if you could bring us back to, you know, how did you get involved with lens? What was the, you know, the problem statement that it helped you resolve? >> Yeah, sure. So the (inaudible) super briefly is that Lens was developed by this startup called Condena, it's a finish startup, and they made a couple of attempts in container orchestration, like before Kubernetes and then Coobernetti's game. And they just felt like Kubernetes is super hard to kind of visualize or like, understand what's going on because you have these containers flying around, you have nodes going in going out. So they built this lens and then since I'd be working with those guys from 2015 or so, I was like one of the first outside users, or probably the first user outside of the company. >> So, that, pretty neat that you had that, you know, that project that they were doing. As an early user, you know, give us a little bit of that journey. What does it enable for your company? You know, how has it expanded from kind of the early use cases to where it is today. >> Yeah. So, if you're using Kubernetes traditionally, or like how most of the people who haven't yet heard about Lens use it is by or from the command line. So that's where you use keep CTL or cube control. You say cube CTL pod, and then you get the listing pod. But the problem is that, all that data is stale on the screen. So if you trend try to, for example, delete a port and you issue cutesy delete pod, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you enter on the pod all ready, it might be gone. So Lens makes like everything real time. And like, if you try to delete something with lens, you move your mouse on top of the pod. And if it's getting deleted, you know, this, it, because it just disappears from your screen and like, it's not there anymore. And I think that's a huge a productivity boost in a way, that's how you can like get more and more stuff done every day as these kind of like, when you are a developer or CSI admin or whatever you need to kind of like, see what's happening in your cluster and house that note and pods are doing. And that. So back to your question, when you asked, like, how has the evolved lens it's like nowadays it's super stable. It handles big workloads very well. In the very, very early on, they had some performance issues with like, like large clusters, for example, when supervisor, when we run a load test with, for example, 10,000 concurrent web browsers. So basically what we have in Kubernetes is we have 10,000 pods. And then when you connect something like lens to it, it's just like started to spin up my fans until on the laptop, still about eating all the Ram. So I helped them a lot with my special use case of running like super big Ephemeral workloads there. >> Yeah. It's an interesting discussion. And in the whole, you know, container space, there's all that discussion of scale(chuckling). You know, of course everybody thinks back to Google and how they use it. So we know it can go really big, but, you know, environments, I needed to be able to work really small or youth cases like yours. I needed to be able to, you know, burst use that usage when you need it and go back on that a less density that we hope for in, in cloud. So I'm curious any, what's your expectation with it, you know, going open source, coming into Mirantis as a, as a longtime user of it, you know, what do you expect to see? >> Well, I think like Mirantis offers the right kind of home for the product, because they really get what's happening in the space. And I think they're like commercial offering on top of the open source will be around authentication. That's why, like, I kind of understood from the press release. And I think it makes sense because like, developers don't want to pay for these kinds of tools. And there are other tools that are commercial. And even if it's like just 100 bucks per year, I think that's still not going to work out with most of the developers and you kind of need this kind of long tail developer adoption for these kinds of products to succeed. And I think that, like, that's kind of like authentication, like centralized, like who can see what, and that kind of stuff. It doesn't like affect most of the startups or Indie Devs, but like for any company who was doing it like a real business, those are the features that are needed. And when you use that, the products for business, then I think it makes sense to pay also. >> Yeah, absolutely. There's always that, challenge developers of course love open source tools if they can use them. And, you know, the packaging, the monetization, isn't a question for you it's(chuckling), you know, for the Miranda's team. What would you say to your peers out there, people that are in this space, you know, what are the areas that they say, Oh, you know, if I have this type of environment, or if I have type, if I have this team, this is what lens will really be awesome for me. What are some of the things that you would recommend to your peers out there from, from all the usage that you've done? >> Yeah. So let's say three things. The first thing is what I already mentioned the real timeness that everything updates live, the second thing is the integrated metrics. So you cannot, for example, follow how much memory or CPU something is consuming. It's super helpful when you want to like, understand what's really going on and how much resources something is taken. And then the third thing is that Landis is great for debugging because once you have deployed something and something is off, and it's kind of hard to reproduce locally, especially with this kind of a microservice architecture, whatever, what you might have is that you can just like go inside at any part or note instantly from the UI. You don't have to, like, again, you don't have to use cubes sheets, the L blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, and you have just like in there also, because you are already in the. But its the fourth thing is that if you manage multiple Kubernetes clusters, it's super easy to accidentally connect to the wrong cluster. But like, if you have, some visual tool where you can see in I'm in this. I mean, my production cluster are I'm in my staging cluster and you make the selection like visually there, then all the cube sees and everything works against that's a cluster. So I think that's like very helpful so that you don't actually accidentally delete something from production, for example. >> Wonderful. Last question I have for you either blend specifically, or kind of the eco-system around it, what, would be on your wishlist for, as I said, either lance specifically, or to, you know, manage your environments surrounding that, you know, what, what would you be asking kind of Miranda and, the broader eco-system for? >> I know that, well, let me think. Yeah. Okay. First of all, I have like maybe 50, 60 issues still open a GitHub that I have opened there. So that's like my wish list, but like, if you, they got like longer term, I think it would just be great, if you could actually like start deployments from Lance, there are a bunch of deployment tools, like customize and help. But again, if you just wanted to get something running quickly, I think integrating that to Lance would be like, super good. Just you it's just like click like I want to deploy this app. That's, that's something I'm looking forward to. >> Yeah, absolutely. Everybody wants that simplicity. All right. Well, Hey, thank you so much. Great to hear the feedback. We always talk about the people that developed code, as well as, you know, the people that do the beta testing and the feedback. So critically important to the maturation development of everything that's based though. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Stay tuned for more coverage from Mirantis Launchpad 2020 I'm Stu Miniman. And thank you for watching the cube. (upbeat music)

>> Man: Live from Madrid, Spain, it's the Cube! Covering HPE Discover Madrid, 2017. Brought to you by: Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Welcome back to Madrid, everybody, this is The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with my co-host, Peter Burris, and this is our second day of coverage of HPE's Madrid Conference, HPE Discover. Sharad Singhal is back, Director of Machine Software and Applications, HPE and Corps and Labs >> Good to be back. And Mike Woodacre is here, a distinguished engineer from Mission Critical Solutions at Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube, welcome back. Good to see you, Mike. >> Good to be here. >> Superdome Flex is all the rage here! (laughs) At this show. You guys are happy about that? You were explaining off-camera that is the first jointly-engineered product from SGI and HPE, so you hit a milestone. >> Yeah, and I came into Hewett Packard Enterprise just over a year ago with the SGI Acquisition. We're already working on our next generation in memory computing platform. We basically hit the ground running, integrated the engineering teams immediately that we closed the acquisition so we could drive through the finish line and with the product announcement just recently, we're really excited to get that out into the market. Really represent the leading in memory, computing system in the industry. >> Sharad, a high performance computer, you've always been big data, needing big memories, lots of performance... How has, or has, the acquisition of SGI shaped your agenda in any way or your thinking, or advanced some of the innovations that you guys are coming up with? >> Actually, it was truly like a meeting of the minds when these guys came into HPE. We had been talking about memory-driven computing, the machine prototype, for the last two years. Some of us were aware of it, but a lot of us were not aware of it. These guys had been working essentially in parallel on similar concepts. Some of the work we had done, we were thinking in terms of our road maps and they were looking at the same things. Their road maps were looking incredibly similar to what we were talking about. As the engineering teams came about, we brought both the Superdome X technology and The UV300 technology together into this new product that Mike can talk a lot more about. From my side, I was talking about the machine and the machine research project. When I first met Mike and I started talking to him about what they were doing, my immediate reaction was, "Oh wow wait a minute, this is exactly what I need!" I was talking about something where I could take the machine concepts and deliver products to customers in the 2020 time frame. With the help of Mike and his team, we are able to now do essentially something where we can take the benefits we are describing in the machine program and- make those ideas available to customers right now. I think to me that was the fun part of this journey here. >> So what are the key problems that your team is attacking with this new offering? >> The primary use case for the Superdome Flex is really high-performance in memory database applications, typically SAP Hana is sort of the industry leading solution in that space right now. One of the key things with the Superdome Flex, you know, Flex is the active word, it's the flexibility. You can start with a small building block of four socket, three terabyte building block, and then you just connect these boxes together. The memory footprint just grows linearly. The latency across our fabric just stays constant as you add these modules together. We can deliver up to 32 processes, 48 terabytes of in-memory data in a single rack. So it's really the flexibility, sort of a pay as you grow model. As their needs grow, they don't have to throw out the infrastructure. They can add to it. >> So when you take a look ultimately at the combination, we talked a little bit about some of the new types of problems that can be addressed, but let's bring it practical to the average enterprise. What can the enterprise do today, as a consequence of this machine, that they couldn't do just a few weeks ago? >> So it sort of builds on the modularity, as Lance explained. If you ask a CEO today, "what's my database requirement going to be in two or three years?" they're like, "I hope my business is successful, I hope I'm gonna grow my needs," but I really don't know where that side is going to grow, so the flexibility to just add modules and scale up the capacity of memory to bring that- so the whole concept of in-memory databases is basically bringing your online transaction processing and your data-analytics processing together. So then you can do this in real time and instead of your data going to a data warehouse and looking at how the business is operating days or weeks or months ago, I can see how it's acting right now with the latest updates of transactions. >> So this is important. You mentioned two different things. Number one is you mentioned you can envision- or three things. You can start using modern technology immediately on an extremely modern platform. Number two, you can grow this and scale this as needs follow, because Hana in memory is not gonna have the same scaling limitations that you know, Oracle on a bunch of spinning discs had. >> Mike: Exactly. >> So, you still have the flexibility to learn and then very importantly, you can start adding new functions, including automation, because now you can put the analytics and the transaction processing together, close that loop so you can bring transactions, analytics, boom, into a piece of automation, and scale that in unprecedented ways. That's kind of three things that the business can now think about. Have I got that right? >> Yeah, that's exactly right. It lets people really understand how their business is operating in real time, look for trends, look for new signatures in how the business is operating. They can basically build on their success and basically having this sort of technology gives them a competitive advantage over their competitors so they can out-compute or out-compete and get ahead of the competition. >> But it also presumably leads to new kinds of efficiencies because you can converge, that converge word that we've heard so much. You can not just converge the hardware and converge the system software management, but you can now increasingly converge tasks. Bring those tasks in the system, but also at a business level, down onto the same platform. >> Exactly, and so moving in memory is really about bringing real time to the problem instead of batch mode processing, you bring in the real-time aspect. Humans, we're interactive, we like to ask a question, get an answer, get on to the next question in real time. When processes move from batch mode to real time, you just get a step change in the innovation that can occur. We think with this foundation, we're really enabling the industry to step forward. >> So let's create a practical example here. Let's apply this platform to a sizeable system that's looking at customer behavior patterns. Then let's imagine how we can take the e-commerce system that's actually handling order, bill, fulfillment and all those other things. We can bring those two things together not just in a way that might work, if we have someone online for five minutes, but right now. Is that kind of one of those examples that we're looking at? >> Absolutely, you can basically- you have a history of the customers you're working with. In retail when you go in a store, the store will know your history of transactions with them. They can decide if they want to offer you real time discounts on particular items. They'll also be taking in other data, weather conditions to drive their business. Suddenly there's going to be a heat wave, I want more ice cream in the store, or it's gonna be freezing next week, I'm gonna order in more coats and mittens for everyone to buy. So taking in lots of transactional data, not just the actual business transaction, but environmental data, you can accelerate your ability to provide consumers with the things they will need. >> Okay, so I remember when you guys launched Apollo. Antonio Neri was running the server division, you might have had networking to him. He did a little reveal on the floor. Antonio's actually in the house over there. >> Mike: (laughs) Next door. There was an astronaut at the reveal. We covered it on the Cube. He's always been very focused on this part of the business of the high-performance computing, and obviously the machine has been a huge project. How has the leadership been? We had a lot of skeptics early on that said you were crazy. What was the conversation like with Meg and Antonio? Were they continuously supportive, were they sometimes skeptical too? What was that like? >> So if you think about the total amount of effort we've put in the machine program, and truly speaking, that kind of effort would not be possible if the senior leadership was not behind us inside this company. Right? A lot of us in HP labs were working on it. It was not just a labs project, it was a project where our business partners were working on it. We brought together engineering teams from the business groups who understood how projects were put together. We had software people working with us who were working inside the business, we had researchers from labs working, we had supply chain partners working with us inside this project. A project of this scale and scope does not succeed if it's a handful of researchers doing this work. We had enormous support from the business side and from our leadership team. I give enormous thanks to our leadership team to allow us to do this, because it's an industry thing, not just an HP Enterprise thing. At the same time, with this kind of investment, there's clearly an expectation that we will make it real. It's taken us three years to go from, "here is a vague idea from a group of crazy people in labs," to something which actually works and is real. Frankly, the conversation in the last six months has been, "okay, so how do we actually take it to customers?" That's where the partnership with Mike and his team has become so valuable. At this point in time, we have a shared vision of where we need to take the thing. We have something where we can on-board customers right now. We have something where, frankly, even I'm working on the examples we were talking about earlier today. Not everybody can afford a 16-socket, giant machine. The Superdome Flex allows my customer, or anybody who is playing with an application to start small, something that is reasonably affordable, try that application out. If that application is working, they have the ability to scale up. This is what makes the Superdome Flex such a nice environment to work in for the types of applications I'm worrying about because it takes something which when we had started this program, people would ask us, "when will the machine product be?" From day one, we said, "the machine product will be something that might become available to you in some form or another by the end of the decade." Well, suddenly with Mike, I think I can make it happen right now. It's not quite the end of the decade yet, right? So I think that's what excited me about this partnership we have with the Superdome Flex team. The fact that they had the same vision and the same aspirations that we do. It's a platform that allows my current customers with their current applications like Mike described within the context of say, SAB Hana, a scalable platform, they can operate it now. It's also something that allows them to involve towards the future and start putting new applications that they haven't even thought about today. Those were the kinds of applications we were talking about. It makes it possible for them to move into this journey today. >> So what is the availability of Superdome Flex? Can I buy it today? >> Mike: You can buy it today. Actually, I had the pleasure of installing the first early-access system in the UK last week. We've been delivering large memory platforms to Stephen Hawking's team at Cambridge University for the last twenty years because they really like the in-memory capability to allow them, as they say, to be scientists, not computer scientists, in working through their algorithms and data. Yeah, it's ready for sale today. >> What's going on with Hawking's team? I don't know if this is fake news or not, but I saw something come across that said he says the world's gonna blow up in 600 years. (laughter) I was like, uh-oh, what's Hawking got going now? (laughs) That's gotta be fun working with those guys. >> Yeah, I know, it's been fun working with that team. Actually, what I would say following up on Sharad's comment, it's been really fun this last year, because I've sort of been following the machine from outside when the announcements were made a couple of years ago. Immediately when the acquisition closed, I was like, "tell me about the software you've been developing, tell me about the photonics and all these technologies," because boy, I can now accelerate where I want to go with the technology we've been developing. Superdome Flex is really the first step on the path. It's a better product than either company could have delivered on their own. Now over time, we can integrate other learnings and technologies from the machine research program. It's a really exciting time. >> Excellent. Gentlemen, I always love the SGI acquisitions. Thought it made a lot of sense. Great brand, kind of put SGI back on the map in a lot of ways. Gentlemen, thanks very much for coming on the Cube. >> Thank you again. >> We appreciate you. >> Mike: Thank you. >> Thanks for coming on. Alright everybody, We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. This is the Cube, live from HGE Discover Madrid. Be right back. (energetic synth)