Balaji Ganesan, Privacera | AWS Startup Showcase
(upbeat techno music) >> LISA MARTIN: Welcome to today's session of theCubes presentation of the AWS startup showcase, new breakthroughs in DevOps, data analytics, and cloud management tools. This segment features Privacera, and we're going to be talking about data and analytics. I'm Lisa Martin, and today we're joined by Balaji Ganesan the Co-Founder and CEO Privacera. Balaji is going to be talking about accelerating cloud migration and secure self-service analytics with Privacera. Balaji, great to see you again. >> BALAJI GANESAN: Great see you Lisa, and thank you for having me again. >> LISA MARTIN: Our pleasure. Talk to me a little bit about Privacera and specifically what you guys are focused on. >> Yeah, absolutely. Let me start off talking about the problem we are trying to solve. Privacera today is at the intersection of data, data analytics and data governance. And we have seen in the news every time is the use of data in the organizations is increasing and more organizations are becoming data driven. And to solve customer, understand customer more, or to solve supply chain, the use of data is prevalent. And with that, what we are seeing is true data democratization that is happening now in the cloud, where more and more enterprise users are looking for access to the data. And if you look at the world of data teams and IT teams. On one hand, business users are looking for more access to the data, more use cases, more tools, and faster access to the data to drive business decisions, and that's the world they are living in. And every business, every industry is going towards that part. But on the other hand, governance and especially security privacy within has become table stakes, right. Where it's become a board level topic and on especially topics around, how do you get visibility on what data you have? Do you know where your sensitive data is? And making sure you're taking care of all the protections and stipulations around that. But you also have mandates around making sure that people have access to the data only for that purpose, and right people having access to the right data, only the right data and nothing more, is a mandate that is becoming more and more prevalent. Again, driven through privacy regulations and legal mandate. But operationalizing that in the context of data and data democratization is incredibly hard, because these teams are dealing with variety of databases and tools and each have its own way of doing controls. And so if they have a mandate of making sure right people have access to the right data, it's incredibly hard to operationalize that, it's incredibly complex doing manually. And that's the dual mandate we live in today is, on one hand, more users are looking for access to the data, On the other hand, you know, you need to have governance, you need to have guard rails, and how do you balance that out? And for us, it's not a zero sum game and we believe we can balance both, and that's essentially where Privacera comes in, where we are providing a horizontals single pane of glass which helps enterprises to do two major things, right. One is them get visibility, accurately, on what data they have, what is sensitive data and what is not at a pretty fine grain level. And we can leverage that information to build policies and rules in a more unified manner, or on who can access what data, and enforce them across any kind of database or application. And what it helps enterprises to do that is they can deal with this unified layer to get visibility, this deal with this unified layer to manage policies in one place, and they can make sure that these policies are enforced across anywhere that users are accessing data. So in effect, the net result is users can use any tool, any applications to access data. On the other hand, you are governing that, you're governing the access and making sure that people have only access to the data they are supposed to and nothing more. And that is where we are helping those dual mandate coming. >> LISA MARTIN: Talk to me about the timing. Are we at an inflection point? You talked about the data sharing, governance security being a board level conversation, you and I have talked about that before, but also the balancing the need to be able to give the right people access to only the data that they need. Are we at an inflection point in time for Privacera to be able to solve this problem for companies in lots of industries? >> Absolutely. So, if you're taking step back at a macro level, there are a couple of things happening at the macro level, right. Which digitization has become made sure that there's more data than ever than enterprises are sitting in. And the fact that they are now also migrating to the cloud and to the public cloud, which is giving rise to newer architecture, newer way of doing things. And traditionally it used to be the case that you have to make copies of data, and to make it available for different business groups. But now you are at that point where cloud, you definitely don't have to do that, you can make data available in the cloud and run a service on top of it to make data available. And in fact, I'm going to use a use case of Sun Life that are on that that part of it, where Sun Life is a valued customer of us, it's an insurance company and they are in that midst of their journey as well, where they're migrating from on-premise and to cloud, and in this case being AWS. And cloud gives them a lot of flexibility, agility for them to go and accelerate those data initiatives. So at a macro level like Sun Life, digitization has become prominent, and like Sun Life, many other companies are accelerating their cloud migration. But what Sun Life has is, they have to have a lot of mandates built in, in terms of governance and security, being an insurance industry, being dealing with a lot of sensitive data, both which are mandate to have a lot of regulations around it. And Sun Life is global, they are in Canada, they are in US, you have to make sure those are mandates are met then. For the teams which are doing that it's hard to meet that mandate. And how do you balance governance and accelerate cloud migration and use of data? And that's essentially where we are at that inflection point today, where these mandates are coming at cross hairs to each other, right. But companies cannot ignore governance and accelerate cloud migration. On the other hand, they can't just make the data siloed so much that they ignore the use of data part of it. So we are at this interesting inflection point where these drivers are coming in and it crosses each other and it's intersecting at these data teams. We're trying to deal with this dual mandates at the end of the day. And this is exactly what Sun Life was facing, and where they started looking at a solution like Privacera and where we are able to quickly, on the AWS environment, build that unifier layer of access governance, where they can go and manage policies in one place and migrate policies which have been built in the on-premise world to the cloud. And what did help them do that is they were able to build in governance from day one and they were able to quickly get to a faster time to value. It would have taken them in months or maybe a year to get to that stage. They were able to do that in weeks with our tool. And so what we are seeing at this inflection point now is, there are these trends coming at potentially a friction with each other, but it's not a zero sum game, right. It should not be treated as a zero sum game. You can have governance and use of data, and that's essentially where Privacera's mission is. >> LISA MARTIN: Let's talk about digital transformation. You should that great example of Sun Life and the really accelerated time to value that they're getting with Privacera. But if we think about some of the business drivers for data management, modernization, how have they changed and accelerated particularly in the last 18 months? What are some of the business drivers for data management modernization that you see emerging? >> BALAJI GANESAN: Absolutely, Yeah. So, I think what we are seeing is businesses are more hungry for data as, than ever before, and they are not willing to wait for IT teams to complete an infrastructure and a project for many, many years to get access to the data. And cloud makes it possible for them to go and even build tools like Snowflake, for example, where they can quickly go and use that in a SaaS environment and solution without having a dependency, a huge dependency on IT teams. So the world of IT is changing, where business teams can go and gain access to their more modern tools faster than ever before. Infrastructure doesn't have to be built for many, many years before you can realize some of the business initiatives. So cloud is really transforming the agility, the time to value part of it, so what we are seeing that part. From a data management point of view, governance in general, which includes quality, metadata, includes security, privacy, all of this are becoming very, very serious topics, and it's not like they haven't existed before, but given the growth of data you no longer can grow unimpeded, without having those foundational layer of governance. You cannot grow without having your metadata strategy aligned, right. You cannot grow without good quality measures in (indistinct). And security privacy is in that bucket. It used to be the case before that people will do projects and then worry about security. In 2021 that's no longer the case, right. Companies are looking at building these governance mandates upfront, they are thinking about building access governance upfront, building security upfront. Because if you don't do that, if you go and scale in an environment with all those layers, you end up exposing that for risk. But you also have a friction, a friction of not being onboarding more data, because that needs to be compliant as well. So more organizations, more proactive organizations are realizing that they need to be more holistic. They need to put in more governance roadmap very early on in their journey. And that's what Sun Life did, they were very proactive as part of the cloud migration journey, to think about these things upfront and not think of them as an after fact. After fact are something that comes later, most proactive organizations are doing both. >> LISA MARTIN: The need for being able to build things in that print, I'm thinking automation. Talk to me about some of the risks that an enterprise is going to run into if security isn't automated, governance and strategies aren't automated or embedded, as you said upfront. >> BALAJI GANESAN: Yep. I think the risk comes up when is in twofold. One is, many companies have started doing manually and manual work and it becomes fairly a complex initiative. And we were talking to one customer where they have started with snowflake, but quickly they ended up having about 2 million policies in snowflake alone, right, it's not they had some more of the other parts. And 2 million policies across various business groups, but if you need to prove right people have access to the right data, it's incredibly hard when you've grown so much inorganically in many, many ways as part of it. And most organizations have realized that that is going to be untenable, right. And because again, going back, they have this dual mandate that they need to meet. So the risks are for companies which don't do it upfront is it becomes a blocker. At some point, governance becomes a blocker of putting even more data in, or more users in because you have to now go and clean up and make sure that again, right people have access to the right data, set those infrastructure in. And that sets back the company away a bit again as part of it. So, we have seen governance becoming a blocker in data initiatives, and we believe that by enabling this upfront, it can be a true enabler, it can be an accelerant in case. And more proactive organizations like Sun Life have realized that part of doing it early enough, setting those foundations early enough helps them being more agile and helps them meet those business objectives faster. >> LISA MARTIN: I can also imagine too, from a liability perspective, the lack of visibility into where sensitive data is stored, how it's used, who can use it, it is a huge risk for any type of organization, right? >> BALAJI GANESAN: Any type of organization. And with what we have seen with privacy regulations now is, privacy impacts any type of organizations which have customer data. And there's more onus now than ever before to go and make sure that you have clear visibility on what is sensitive data, what is personal information and clear protections around that, and make sure it's used for those right purposes. And it has become real, it's become real in every industry. So while it used to be that healthcare industries has certain regulations, or financial industry, would you count those as part of a regulated industries? What privacy regulations have done is now impacting consumer tech companies, .com companies now who have data that they need to be cognizant now of legal and privacy implications upfront. So, there is an incredible amount of risk, as you pointed out, of not taking care of things upfront. And if you outgrow your data initiatives without putting those fundamental layers in you're exposing the risk, and those risks are coming out in recent examples we are seeing in breaches. There are numerous examples of companies which have failed to put in a more comprehensive strategy and that has resulted in, you know, data getting exposed in the cloud, employees who are not supposed to have access to the data or have access to the data and it gets leaked. So it's broader implications. There are implications around security, there's implications around breaches, there are implications are on privacy that we are seeing across the board. >> LISA MARTIN: So let's talk about roles and responsibilities now. If we're talking about data access governance, if it's no longer just exclusively the domain of IT or data governance teams, and it's distributed across these teams, do you think that data governance responsibilities need to be shared responsibilities or de-centralized? >> BALAJI GANESAN: Yeah, that's a great question, Lisa, and let's take even Sun Life for example, they are a massive organization, data security organizations, there's compliance teams, and there is data teams. And what most organizations are realizing now at heads, it's untenable, it's not scalable to have one central team being the policeman. It's just not feasible, and it's just not feasible while you can provide mandates. The onus of actually making it happen has to be decentralized and has to be shared across the board with data teams, and data teams have to be trained, have to be enabled to go and share those responsibilities, because you are as good as your weakest link. It doesn't matter if you have a really good mandate at the top, but if there are teams which are doing it more open and don't have those controls built in, the organizations is exposed. And so what organizations, or the most modern organizations are realizing that security governance cannot be always top-down. You can provide a mandate, you can have a central team do that, but it's not feasible for that team to police the entire organization, and you don't want to do that. You don't want to police everybody. You want to encourage people to do the right thing. So the onus and responsibility needs to be distributed apart. And that includes people, that includes processes, that includes technology that needs to come in. And most modern organizations are going towards that world, where they're thinking about your data is distributed everywhere, your business teams are accessing data in their own world, how do you in-build governance into that part? And we are seeing this notion of data mesh coming up more and more in organizations, which is driving the need for my data is distributed, business teams have their own ownership of data, how do you make sure you have a (indistinct) of strategy around leveraging data and analytics around it without the need for data to be copied all into one place and one team doing that. And the connotation of data mesh is coming up more and more, and to realize, the organizations are realizing it's just not feasible for one team to drive all their data initiatives, but they also realizing that governance and security falls in the same boat, right. So you cannot have governance being driven by a governance team and police the entire organization. Your data is going to be used where it is store, business teams are going to be doing on their own. But how do you enable those governance in those shared paradigm is the next evolution of that, and some more organizations are doing that already. >> LISA MARTIN: Let's talk about data sharing, internal data sharing within organizations, having the ownership, the governance, not just sharing it internally within organizations, but across organizations. What are some of the business needs that you guys are seeing in the market? >> BALAJI GANESAN: Yes. So going back to the old business strategy is making sure that organizations can leverage data for driving business agility. So data is not a domain for a specific business groups, but organization how they can break down silos, which are existing in the past and leverage data to the maximum value for the organization. So, if you have a marketing team owning marketing data, can this marketing data be accessed by supply chain teams? Or to get some inputs on customers and how they are behaving? So, it doesn't have a lot of value if marketing team holds that data on its own and leverages that. So organizations are trying, chief data officers, one of the biggest things they are trying to do is, how do you break those silos in and make it a more, a common paradigm? Which means that you need to start sharing data. You may, again, in the data governance paradigm or data mesh paradigm, business owners can still own the data and the marketing team can still own the data, but how can you share the data and make sure, again, governance is maintained? You don't want to go and have a very open sharing mechanism that everybody has access to it. You want to do it in a way that only right people have access to the right data for right purpose. So how do you share that data internally? And then it's the extension of that is organizations want to share data across organizations, whether you're in a healthcare industry, whether you are in consumer tech, and that can drive more business value as part of it. But it's the same paradigm. You don't want to share everything. You want to maintain your IP, you want to maintain the compliance, but how do you leverage the data and unblock those silos? And so, again, going back, the paradigm we live in is how organizations can balance both? How you can share data, break down those silos, but how do you bring governance in and security in? That's the interesting paradigm we live in today. >> LISA MARTIN: That external data sharing, something that you brought up is interesting. If that's not governed secured, I imagine huge challenges and risks for organizations. How does Privacera help with that and some of the other AWS partners in that external data sharing, making sure it's done safely and secure? >> BALAJI GANESAN: Yes, absolutely. And so one of the paradigms, again, our mission for us is, how can help organizations in this dual mandate of sharing data, but preserving compliance, security and privacy within that part of it? What we are doing is we are taking our notch into these controls into the next level of governance, right. So we are providing tools to make it very easy for enterprises to share data internally, as well as externally, without the need for writing a lot of policies as part of it. The traditional paradigm has to be that if you need to share data, you have to go and write a rule and a policy, in every layer of the data exist as part of it. What we are doing is we are abstracting that, and we are providing a very easy mechanism. You'll see more announcements coming up in the next few months around our data sharing paradigm is, can you just make it easy for people to share data on few clicks without the need for writing rules and policies and knowing a lot about underlying databases? And we take all that complexity and we translate that complexity internally. So what we are doing is making it for an organization to share in few clicks a data, a marketing team to share data based on a business purpose, and have time limits around it, have governance around it, but not needing for the marketing team to go and hire somebody to understand and write a policies around that. So removing that friction, part of it, removing those complexity and going back to the role of providing that governance layer of sharing, and it applies to both internal and external sharing, again. Behind the scenes we are leveraging the power of the underlying data platforms. We are leveraging the power of what AWS provides. We have deep integrations with things like Lake Formation and other things which are providing more deeper controls, but those complexities are abstracted for the user, they don't have to understand all of those nuances. They have to simply go and say, I want to share this data with X user. Do I want to do it or not, and if I do it for what purposes? And that's it. And just making that easy enough while taking all the complexity away is what we're doing. Again, going back to the goal. We want users to share data, we want users to leverage data, not be a zero sum game. But how they can do that without the need for hiring, understanding a lot of complexity. With taking over the complexity, what we are seeing that it makes it easier, it's an accelerant, it's a faster time to value. >> LISA MARTIN: Faster time to value also by abstracting the complexities, removing the friction, you probably make workforce productivity and collaboration and partnerships even more valuable. One of the things last question that I wanted to bring up is a marketing term that is one that I, kind of like fingernails on a chalkboard, for me as a marketer it's feature proofing. You know, as we've seen in the last year and a half, there was a a lot of us, a lot of industries that weren't future ready when the pandemic struck. When Privacera thinks of making enterprises ready for the future, as data volumes continue to expand and grow as does sources of data, what is future-proofing for your enterprise customers? What does that mean to you? >> BALAJI GANESAN: Yeah, that's a great question, because we have these conversations with CIOs and Chief Data Officers, and you always look in the prism of not just what organizations are doing today, but what are they going to do three years, five years down the line? And the trends I've talked about in before, the digitization, the public cloud, these are long-term trends, these are happening across the organization. So most organizations, like Sun Life, have data in the cloud. They continue to have data on-premise and they potentially tomorrow can be multicloud as well. And if you look at what is going to happen in the next three, five years is data use is going to accelerate, cloud migration is going to accelerate, users, companies are going to be in hybrid cloud and multicloud, but governance privacy is becoming even more stringent. So the trends are secular trends that are going accelerating. And so what we are doing is not a short term, it's built for the medium and the long-term part of it. And our solution, what we are doing is by abstracting out the complexity, we are also making it easier for organizations to scale. They are not dependent on one platform or a solution. They are dealing at a higher governance level, and we have abstracted out the complexity and dependency with a specific platform. So tomorrow they can switch that and put something else in. They don't have to reinvent those policies. They don't have to reinvent the data sharing paradigm, right. And by abstracting that we are future proofing and in terms of how their data strategy is going to be, and that's the value that we simply add, we can provide. And that's the value that we are providing is you don't have to change your governance when you're changing your data platforms. You don't have to change your governance based on what cloud you are choosing, your governance needs to be stuck, all right. Your governance needs to be strategic, your platforms can change. Privacera is in that, is that glue which is enabling you to have a cohesive long-term strategy, but that is scalable, not just today, but tomorrow in the multicloud and hybrid cloud world. >> LISA MARTIN: Got it, Privacera that glue. Point the audience audience, Balaji, as we wrap things up here, to where they can go to learn more about Privacera, what you guys are able to do, and maybe even find that Sun Life case study. >> BALAJI GANESAN: Absolutely. Bulk of the information is available in privacera.com and so you can go and find us and we'll make those case studies and videos available as well. If you have any questions you can drop a note privacera.com or reach out to any of our account representative. >> LISA MARTIN: And hopefully we'll see you at re:Invent in person, crossing fingers. >> BALAJI GANESAN: Absolutely, looking forward to that. And really looking forward to a world where we can see each other in person and in the conference and in the community together again. So we are really looking forward to that. And we are planning big time to be an active participant in that. >> LISA MARTIN: Excellent, I look forward to that. For Balaji Ganesan, I am Lisa Martin. This has been part of our coverage of the AWS startup showcase new breakthroughs in DevOps, data analytics and cloud management tools. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)
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Balaji, great to see you again. and thank you for having me again. and specifically what and faster access to the data for Privacera to be able and to the public cloud, and the really accelerated time to value the time to value part of it, that an enterprise is going to run into And that sets back the company away a bit that they need to be cognizant now of need to be shared responsibilities and data teams have to be trained, that you guys are seeing in the market? and leverage data to the maximum and some of the other AWS partners and going back to the role of What does that mean to you? and that's the value that we and maybe even find that and so you can go and find us we'll see you at re:Invent and in the conference and in of the AWS startup showcase
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Mai Lan Tomsen Bukovec | AWS Storage Day 2021
(pensive music) >> Thank you, Jenna, it's great to see you guys and thank you for watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS Storage Day. We're here at The Spheres, it's amazing venue. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with Mai-Lan Tomsen Bukovec who's Vice President of Block and Object Storage. Mai-Lan, always a pleasure to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Nice to see you, Dave. >> It's pretty crazy, you know, this is kind of a hybrid event. We were in Barcelona a while ago, big hybrid event. And now it's, you know, it's hard to tell. It's almost like day-to-day what's happening with COVID and some things are permanent. I think a lot of things are becoming permanent. What are you seeing out there in terms of when you talk to customers, how are they thinking about their business, building resiliency and agility into their business in the context of COVID and beyond? >> Well, Dave, I think what we've learned today is that this is a new normal. These fluctuations that companies are having and supply and demand, in all industries all over the world. That's the new normal. And that has what, is what has driven so much more adoption of cloud in the last 12 to 18 months. And we're going to continue to see that rapid migration to the cloud because companies now know that in the course of days and months, you're, the whole world of your expectations of where your business is going and where, what your customers are going to do, that can change. And that can change not just for a year, but maybe longer than that. That's the new normal. And I think companies are realizing it and our AWS customers are seeing how important it is to accelerate moving everything to the cloud, to continue to adapt to this new normal. >> So storage historically has been, I'm going to drop a box off at the loading dock and, you know, have a nice day. And then maybe the services team is involved in, in a more intimate way, but you're involved every day. So I'm curious as to what that permanence, that new normal, some people call it the new abnormal, but it's the new normal now, what does that mean for storage? >> Dave, in the course of us sitting here over the next few minutes, we're going to have dozens of deployments go out all across our AWS storage services. That means our customers that are using our file services, our transfer services, block and object services, they're all getting improvements as we sit here and talk. That is such a fundamentally different model than the one that you talked about, which is the appliance gets dropped off at the loading dock. It takes a couple months for it to get scheduled for setup and then you have to do data migration to get the data on the new appliance. Meanwhile, we're sitting here and customers storage is just improving, under the hood and in major announcements, like what we're doing today. >> So take us through the sort of, let's go back, 'cause I remember vividly when, when S3 was announced that launched this cloud era and people would, you know, they would do a lot of experimentation of, we were storing, you know, maybe gigabytes, maybe even some terabytes back then. And, and that's evolved. What are you seeing in terms of how people are using data? What are the patterns that you're seeing today? How is that different than maybe 10 years ago? >> I think what's really unique about AWS is that we are the only provider that has been operating at scale for 15 years. And what that means is that we have customers of all sizes, terabytes, petabytes, exabytes, that are running their storage on AWS and running their applications using that storage. And so we have this really unique position of being able to observe and work with customers to develop what they need for storage. And it really breaks down to three main patterns. The first one is what I call the crown jewels, the crown jewels in the cloud. And that pattern is adopted by customers who are looking at the core mission of their business and they're saying to themselves, I actually can't scale this core mission on on-premises. And they're choosing to go to the cloud on the most important thing that their business does because they must, they have to. And so, a great example of that is FINRA, the regulatory body of the US stock exchanges, where, you know, a number of years ago, they took a look at all the data silos that were popping up across their data centers. They were looking at the rate of stock transactions going up and they're saying, we just can't keep up. Not if we want to follow the mission of being the watchdog for consumers, for transactions, for stock transactions. And so they moved that crown jewel of their application to AWS. And what's really interesting Dave, is, as you know, 'cause you've talked to many different companies, it's not technology that stops people from moving to the cloud as quick as they want to, it's culture, it's people, it's processes, it's how businesses work. And when you move the crown jewels into the cloud, you are accelerating that cultural change and that's certainly what FINRA saw. Second thing we see, is where a company will pick a few cloud pilots. We'll take a couple of applications, maybe one or a several across the organization and they'll move that as sort of a reference implementation to the cloud. And then the goal is to try to get the people who did that to generalize all the learning across the company. That is actually a really slow way to change culture. Because, as many of us know, in large organizations, you know, you have, you have some resistance to other organizations changing culture. And so that cloud pilot, while it seems like it would work, it seems logical, it's actually counter-productive to a lot of companies that want to move quickly to the cloud. And the third example is what I think of as new applications or cloud first, net new. And that pattern is where a company or a startup says all new technology initiatives are on the cloud. And we see that for companies like McDonald's, which has transformed their drive up experience by dynamically looking at location orders and providing recommendations. And we see it for the Digital Athlete, which is what the NFL has put together to dynamically take data sources and build these models that help them programmatically simulate risks to player health and put in place some ways to predict and prevent that. But those are the three patterns that we see so many customers falling into depending on what their business wants. >> I like that term, Digital Athlete, my business partner, John Furrier, coined the term tech athlete, you know, years ago on theCUBE. That third pattern seems to me, because you're right, you almost have to shock the system. If you just put your toe in the water, it's going to take too long. But it seems like that third pattern really actually de-risks it in a lot of cases, it's so it's said, people, who's going to argue, oh, the new stuff should be in the cloud. And so, that seems to me to be a very sensible way to approach that, that blocker, if you will, what are your thoughts on that? >> I think you're right, Dave. I think what it does is it allows a company to be able to see the ideas and the technology and the cultural change of cloud in different parts of the organization. And so rather than having a, one group that's supposed to generalize it across an organization, you get it decentralized and adopted by different groups and the culture change just goes faster. >> So you, you bring up decentralization and there's a, there's an emerging trend referred to as a data mesh. It was, it was coined, the term coined by Zhamak Dehghani, a very thought-provoking individual. And the concept is basically the, you know, data is decentralized, and yet we have this tendency to sort of shove it all into, you know, one box or one container, or you could say one cloud, well, the cloud is expanding, it's the cloud is, is decentralizing in many ways. So how do you see data mesh fitting in to those patterns? >> We have customers today that are taking the data mesh architectures and implementing them with AWS services. And Dave, I want to go back to the start of Amazon, when Amazon first began, we grew because the Amazon technologies were built in microservices. Fundamentally, a data mesh is about separation or abstraction of what individual components do. And so if I look at data mesh, really, you're talking about two things, you're talking about separating the data storage and the characteristics of data from the data services that interact and operate on that storage. And with data mesh, it's all about making sure that the businesses, the decentralized business model can work with that data. Now our AWS customers are putting their storage in a centralized place because it's easier to track, it's easier to view compliance and it's easier to predict growth and control costs. But, we started with building blocks and we deliberately built our storage services separate from our data services. So we have data services like Lake Formation and Glue. We have a number of these data services that our customers are using to build that customized data mesh on top of that centralized storage. So really, it's about at the end of the day, speed, it's about innovation. It's about making sure that you can decentralize and separate your data services from your storage so businesses can go faster. >> But that centralized storage is logically centralized. It might not be physically centralized, I mean, we put storage all over the world, >> Mai-Lan: That's correct. >> right? But, but we, to the developer, it looks like it's in one place. >> Mai-Lan: That's right. >> Right? And so, so that's not antithetical to the concept of a data mesh. In fact, it fits in perfectly to the point you were making. I wonder if we could talk a little bit about AWS's storage strategy and it started of course, with, with S3, and that was the focus for years and now of course EBS as well. But now we're seeing, we heard from Wayne this morning, the portfolio is expanding. The innovation is, is accelerating that flywheel that we always talk about. How would you characterize and how do you think about AWS's storage strategy per se? >> We are a dynamically and constantly evolving our AWS storage services based on what the application and the customer want. That is fundamentally what we do every day. We talked a little bit about those deployments that are happening right now, Dave. That is something, that idea of constant dynamic evolution just can't be replicated by on-premises where you buy a box and it sits in your data center for three or more years. And what's unique about us among the cloud services, is again that perspective of the 15 years where we are building applications in ways that are unique because we have more customers and we have more customers doing more things. So, you know, I've said this before. It's all about speed of innovation Dave, time and change wait for no one. And if you're a business and you're trying to transform your business and base it on a set of technologies that change rapidly, you have to use AWS services. Let's, I mean, if you look at some of the launches that we talk about today, and you think about S3's multi-region access points, that's a fundamental change for customers that want to store copies of their data in any number of different regions and get a 60% performance improvement by leveraging the technology that we've built up over, over time, leveraging the, the ability for us to route, to intelligently route a request across our network. That, and FSx for NetApp ONTAP, nobody else has these capabilities today. And it's because we are at the forefront of talking to different customers and that dynamic evolution of storage, that's the core of our strategy. >> So Andy Jassy used to say, oftentimes, AWS is misunderstood and you, you comfortable with that. So help me square this circle 'cause you talked about things you couldn't do on on-prem, and yet you mentioned the relationship with NetApp. You think, look at things like Outposts and Local Zones. So you're actually moving the cloud out to the edge, including on-prem data centers. So, so how do you think about hybrid in that context? >> For us, Dave, it always comes back to what the customer's asking for. And we were talking to customers and they were talking about their edge and what they wanted to do with it. We said, how are we going to help? And so if I just take S3 for Outposts, as an example, or EBS and Outposts, you know, we have customers like Morningstar and Morningstar wants Outposts because they are using it as a step in their journey to being on the cloud. If you take a customer like First Abu Dhabi Bank, they're using Outposts because they need data residency for their compliance requirements. And then we have other customers that are using Outposts to help, like Dish, Dish Networks, as an example, to place the storage as close as account to the applications for low latency. All of those are customer driven requirements for their architecture. For us, Dave, we think in the fullness of time, every customer and all applications are going to be on the cloud, because it makes sense and those businesses need that speed of innovation. But when we build things like our announcement today of FSx for NetApp ONTAP, we build them because customers asked us to help them with their journey to the cloud, just like we built S3 and EBS for Outposts for the same reason. >> Well, when you say over time, you're, you believe that all workloads will be on the cloud, but the cloud is, it's like the universe. I mean, it's expanding. So what's not cloud in the future? When you say on the cloud, you mean wherever you meet customers with that cloud, that includes Outposts, just the programming, it's the programmability of that model, is that correct? That's it, >> That's right. that's what you're talking about? >> In fact, our S3 and EBS Outposts customers, the way that they look at how they use Outposts, it's either as part of developing applications where they'll eventually go the cloud or taking applications that are in the cloud today in AWS regions and running them locally. And so, as you say, this definition of the cloud, you know, it, it's going to evolve over time. But the one thing that we know for sure, is that AWS storage and AWS in general is going to be there one or two steps ahead of where customers are, and deliver on what they need. >> I want to talk about block storage for a moment, if I can, you know, you guys are making some moves in that space. We heard some announcements earlier today. Some of the hardest stuff to move, whether it's cultural or maybe it's just hardened tops, maybe it's, you know, governance edicts, or those really hardcore mission critical apps and workloads, whether it's SAP stuff, Oracle, Microsoft, et cetera. You're clearly seeing that as an opportunity for your customers and in storage in some respects was a blocker previously because of whatever, latency, et cetera, then there's still some, some considerations there. How do you see those workloads eventually moving to the cloud? >> Well, they can move now. With io2 Block Express, we have the performance that those high-end applications need and it's available today. We have customers using them and they're very excited about that technology. And, you know, again, it goes back to what I just said, Dave, we had customers saying, I would like to move my highest performing applications to the cloud and this is what I need from the, from the, the storage underneath them. And that's why we built io2 Block Express and that's how we'll continue to evolve io2 Block Express. It is the first SAN technology in the cloud, but it's built on those core principles that we talked about a few minutes ago, which is dynamically evolving and capabilities that we can add on the fly and customers just get the benefit of it without the cost of migration. >> I want to ask you about, about just the storage, how you think about storage in general, because typically it's been a bucket, you know, it's a container, but it seems, I always say the next 10 years aren't going to be like the last, it seems like, you're really in the data business and you're bringing in machine intelligence, you're bringing in other database technology, this rich set of other services to apply to the data. That's now, there's a lot of data in the cloud and so we can now, whether it's build data products, build data services. So how do you think about the business in that sense? It's no longer just a place to store stuff. It's actually a place to accelerate innovation and build and monetize for your customers. How do you think about that? >> Our customers use the word foundational. Every time they talk about storage, they say for us, it's foundational, and Dave, that's because every business is a data business. Every business is making decisions now on this changing landscape in a world where the new normal means you cannot predict what's going to happen in six months, in a year. And the way that they're making those smart decisions is through data. And so they're taking the data that they have in our storage services and they're using SageMaker to build models. They're, they're using all kinds of different applications like Lake Formation and Glue to build some of the services that you're talking about around authorization and data discovery, to sit on top of the data. And they're able to leverage the data in a way that they have never been able to do before, because they have to. That's what the business world demands today, and that's what we need in the new normal. We need the flexibility and the dynamic foundational storage that we provide in AWS. >> And you think about the great data companies, those were the, you know, trillions in the market cap, their data companies, they put data at their core, but that doesn't mean they shove all the data into a centralized location. It means they have the identity access capabilities, the governance capabilities to, to enable data to be used wherever it needs to be used and, and build that future. That, exciting times we're entering here, Mai-Lan. >> We're just set the start, Dave, we're just at the start. >> Really, what ending do you think we have? So, how do you think about Amazon? It was, it's not a baby anymore. It's not even an adolescent, right? You guys are obviously major player, early adulthood, day one, day zero? (chuckles) >> Dave, we don't age ourself. I think if I look at where we're going for AWS, we are just at the start. So many companies are moving to the cloud, but we're really just at the start. And what's really exciting for us who work on AWS storage, is that when we build these storage services and these data services, we are seeing customers do things that they never thought they could do before. And it's just the beginning. >> I think the potential is unlimited. You mentioned Dish before, I mean, I see what they're doing in the cloud for Telco. I mean, Telco Transformation, that's an industry, every industry, there's a transformation scenario, a disruption scenario. Healthcare has been so reluctant for years and that's happening so quickly, I mean, COVID's certainly accelerating that. Obviously financial services have been super tech savvy, but they're looking at the Fintech saying, okay, how do we play? I mean, there isn't manufacturing with EV. >> Mai-Lan: Government. >> Government, totally. >> It's everywhere, oil and gas. >> There isn't a single industry that's not a digital industry. >> That's right. >> And there's implications for everyone. And it's not just bits and atoms anymore, the old Negroponte, although Nicholas, I think was prescient because he's, he saw this coming, it really is fundamental. Data is fundamental to every business. >> And I think you want, for all of those in different industries, you want to pick the provider where innovation and invention is in our DNA. And that is true, not just for storage, but AWS, and that is driving a lot of the changes you have today, but really what's coming in the future. >> You're right. It's the common editorial factors. It's not just the, the storage of the data. It's the ability to apply other technologies that map into your business process, that map into your organizational skill sets that drive innovation in whatever industry you're in. It's great Mai-Lan, awesome to see you. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Great seeing you Dave, take care. >> All right, you too. And keep it right there for more action. We're going to now toss it back to Jenna, Canal and Darko in the studio. Guys, over to you. (pensive music)
SUMMARY :
it's great to see you guys And now it's, you know, it's hard to tell. in the last 12 to 18 months. the loading dock and, you know, than the one that you talked about, and people would, you know, and they're saying to themselves, coined the term tech athlete, you know, and the cultural change of cloud And the concept is and it's easier to predict But that centralized storage it looks like it's in one place. to the point you were making. is again that perspective of the 15 years the cloud out to the edge, in the fullness of time, it's the programmability of that's what you're talking about? definition of the cloud, you know, Some of the hardest stuff to move, and customers just get the benefit of it lot of data in the cloud and the dynamic foundational and build that future. We're just set the start, Dave, So, how do you think about Amazon? And it's just the beginning. doing in the cloud for Telco. It's everywhere, that's not a digital industry. Data is fundamental to every business. the changes you have today, It's the ability to Great seeing you Dave, Jenna, Canal and Darko in the studio.
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