>> Live from Washington DC, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage live in Washington DC at Amazon Web Services AWS Public Sector Summit. I mean, it's so jam-packed you can't even move. This is like the re:Invent for Public Sector even though it's a summit for Amazon Web Services. I'm here with Dave Vellante, my co-host. Our next guest is John Wood, Chairman and CEO of Telos, and Rick Tracy, Chief Security Officer and the co-inventor of Xacta, it's hot technology. John, great to see you, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks guys. >> Thanks for having us. >> I love to get the brain trust here, John you're, like, probably one of the most experienced cyber security gurus in the DC area still standing. (laughing) As we said last time on theCUBE. >> Always, always. >> Okay. (laughing) And you've got some patents here, with some core technology, so first of all, I want to, before we get into some of the cool features of the products, talk about the dynamic of public sector, because Amazon has these summits, and they're kind of like a recycled re:Invent. Small scale, still packed. Talk about what Public Sector Summit is, because this is a completely different ballgame in this world. >> Sure, it's a perfect age for the cloud, and what this summit does, is it provides a great venue for people to come, learn about what works, get best practices, find use cases and just see what the ecosystem's all about in terms of how to make it work with the cloud. >> Rick, so what's your take? >> Well, if there's any doubt about it, what, is it double the size of last year? I think there were 7,000 people here last year and Teresa said today 14,500. So, yeah, I mean, it suits us perfectly because this is our sweet spot. >> So, Dave and I are always amazed by Amazon in general, the slew of announcements, Teresa Carlson picking the reins up where Andy Jassy does that Amazon re:Invent which is just tons of content, so many new announcements. What's your guys take on the hot news for you guys, because you guys are a major sponsor and you're in the ecosystem, you've been doing a lot of business with Amazon. >> Sure. >> What's going on in the business? What's happening with Telos? Why is it so booming right now for you guys? >> Well, I think people realize that there is a way to use automation where security can help drive cloud adoption. So, Rick and I co-authored an article back in 2011 that talked about why the cloud was more secure and it went over kind of like a lead ballon. And then back in 2014 the agency made the decision, the CIA made the decision, arguably the most security conscious organization in the world, to go to the cloud. And so that was a big, big, big, deal. But what we do is we help drive the security automation and orchestration stuff so you can reduce the time it takes to get what's called your authority to operate. And so I think that's a big deal now. The use of automation is being used to enhance the mission, so that the mission owners can get to their mission using the cloud, much more quickly. >> And we heard from the most powerful sentence in the keynote this morning was, "The cloud on it's weakest day is more secure than Client Service Solutions." This is a practitioner saying that, a leader of an agency saying that, not Amazon or not Telos. >> Absolutely. >> And it's because of that automation, right? I mean, that's really a key factor. >> It's because of the automation. It's also because the cloud providers are making sure that they lock down their physical infrastructure. Guards, gates, guns. All of the physical infrastructure and the virtual infrastructure, they do a really good job of that. If you think about it, the US government, unfortunately, 80% of their spend is around maintaining old systems. Well, the cloud providers are keeping modern. Those old systems have a lot of weaknesses from a standpoint of cyber security flaws. So, with a modern technology like the cloud, there's a lot more you can do around automation to lock down much more quickly. >> And the standardization that you get with a cloud makes it's easier as well, because there's not so many variations of things that you have to figure out how to protect. So, the standardized services that everything's built on really helps. >> Yeah, and people are adopting cloud in kind of different ways, which makes it harder, too. But you get the benefits of scale and speed, certainly. But I got to just pick up on some big news that's happened just last night and today. Microsoft Azure suffered an 11 hour downtime across Europe. 11 hours Azure's down, Microsoft Azure. This is a huge concern. Downtime, security, these are issues, I mean, this is just like, so, what's going on with this? >> Well, the truth of the matter is, if you think about where Amazon is today, Amazon is light years ahead of the rest of the cloud guys. The reason for that is they made the decision early on to take the risk around cloud. As a result of that, they have so many lessons learned that are beyond all of the other cloud providers, that that wouldn't happen to Amazon today, because they'll be able to back up, replication and duplication if they have, and their environments. >> How big do you think that lead is? You know, there's a lot of debate in the industry that other guys are catching up. The other side of the coin is, no, actually the flywheel effect is a lot like Secretariat in the stretch run of the Belmont, you were talking about racing before. What's your sense of that lead, even subjectively. >> I think it's between 5 and 10 years. There was a, it was crickets in this world, in the public sector world for cloud up until, literally, the agency decided to adopt. So the CIA made that decision, that was, sort of, the shot heard around the world as it relates to cloud adoption. Not just for public sector but for commercial as well, 'cause if you look at Amazon's ramp up, right after that decision was made, their ramp up has been amazing. >> That was a watershed event, for sure. >> It was, and it was very well documented, I mean, I read the judges ruling on that when IBM tried to stop them and the judge eviscerated IBM. And of course IBM had no cloud at the time, they had to go out and spend two billion dollars on software. John has lots of opinions on that, but okay, so that leaves-- >> I'm on the right side of history on that call. >> I think you are, it was a pretty good call. What about, what should be practitioners be thinking about? You talked about the standardization. Where should they be focused? Is it on response, is it on analytics, is it on training? What should it be? >> Well, from our perspective it is, a lot of the focus is on analytics, right? So, a lot of data that we've helped our customers collect over time for this ATO process that John previously mentioned, our goal with IO, Xacta IO, is to help organizations leverage that data to do more through analytics, so there's this dashboard with ad hoc reporting and analytic capability that's going to allow them to blend asset data with risk-to-threat data, with other sorts of data that they're collecting for ATO, specifically for the ATO process, that they can use now for more robust cyber risk management. So, for me, analytics is huge moving forward. >> And that's a prioritization tool so they can focus on the things that matter, or maybe double-click on that? >> It could be, it could be a prioritization tool, but it could also be a tool that you use to anticipate what might happen, right? So, some analytics will help you determine this asset is vulnerable for these variety of reasons, therefore it has to go to the top of the sack for remediation. But also, using that data over time might help you understand that this plus this plus this is an indication that this bad thing is going to happen. And so, analytics, I think, falls into both categories. Probably it's more the forecasting and predictive is something that's going to come later but as you unmask more data and understand how to apply rules to that data, it will naturally come. So, Rick and I have worked together for many, many years and, over a quarter of a century, so the way I would say it is like this. Xacta 360 helps you to accelerate your authority to operate, but that's a point in time. The holy grail for us as security practitioners is all around continuous monitoring of your underlying risk. So, the data analytics that he's talking about, is where we come about and looking at Xacta IO. So, Xacta IO helps fulfill that mission of continuous compliance, which means that the ATO is no longer just relevant at that moment in time because we can do continuous monitoring now at scale, in hybrid environments, in the cloud, on prem. 'Cause our clients are huge, so they're going to be a combination of environments that they're sitting in, and they need to understand their underlying risk posture. They need to have, they're going to have all kinds of scanners, so we don't really care, we can ingest any kind of scanner that you have with Exact IO. As a result of that, the security professional can spend their time on the analysis and not the pedestrian stuff that's just kind of wasting time, like documentation and all that stuff. >> Yeah, for us, data's a means to an end, right? It's either to get an ATO or to help you understand where you need to be focusing your resources to remediate issues. So, for us, leveraging the data that's produced by many companies that are at this show. Their data is a means to help us get our job done. >> Were you able to have, one follow up, if I may, were you able to have an impact, to me, even, again, subjectively, on that number, whatever that number is, that we get infiltrated, the customer gets infiltrated, it's 300 days before they even realize it. Are you seeing an impact on that as a result of analytics, or is it too early days? >> I would say it's still early. But it's reasonable to expect that there will be benefits in terms of faster detection. And maybe it's not even detection at some point, hopefully, it's anticipating so that you're not detecting something bad already happened, it's avoiding it before it happens. >> Yeah, and let me say it this way, too. You know, if you listen to John Edwards, the CIO from the CIA, he talks about how the reason he loves the cloud is because it used to take the agency about a year to provision a server, now it's a few minutes, right? Well that's great, but if you can't get your authority to operate, 'cause that can take another 18 months, you're not going to get the benefit of the cloud, right? So what we do, is we help accelerate how fast you can get to that ATO so that guys like the agency and anybody else that wants to use the cloud can use it much more quickly, right? >> Yeah, and the continuous integration and all that monitoring is great for security but I've got to ask you a question. Analytics are super important, we all know data analysis now is in the center of the value proposition across the board, horizontally. Not just data warehousing, analytics that are used as instrumentation and variables into critical things like security. So, with that being said, if you believe that, the question is, how does that shape the architecture, if I'm in an agency or I'm a customer, I want to build a cloud architecture that's going to scale and do all those things, be up, not go down, and have security. How does the architecture change with the cloud formula for the decision maker? Because right now they're like, "Oh, should I do multi-cloud, should I just Amazon" So, the data is a critical architectural decision point. How do you guys see that shaping, what's your advice to practitioners around designing the cloud architecture for data in mind. Just use Amazon? (laughs) >> Well, yes. (laughs) Just use Amazon. I mean, all the tools that you need exist here, right, and so-- >> If all the tools you need in the cloud exist here. >> Alright, so rephrase another way. >> But John, the issue is you're not going to have all your stuff in the cloud if you're the air force or if you're the army, because you have 75 years of data that you got to push in. So over the next 10 years there's going to be this "hybrid" environment where you'll have some stuff in the cloud, some stuff in a hybrid world, some stuff on prem, right? >> How I secured that, so that's a great point. So, data's everywhere, so that means you're going to need to collect it and then measure certain things. What's the best way to secure it and then is that where Xacta fits in? I'm trying to put that together if I'm going to design my architecture and then go to procurement, whether it's on premise or multi-cloud. >> Well, there are lots of security products that people use to secure, whether you're on prem or whether you're in the cloud and our platform leverages that information to determine whether things are secure enough. So there's a distinction between cyber risk management and actually securing a database, right? So, there's so many granular point products that exist for different points along the security chain, lifecycle chain, if you will, that our objective is to ingest as much of that information and purpose it in a way that allows someone to understand whether they're actually secure or not. And so it's understanding your security posture, transforming that security information to risk so that you can prioritize, as you were talking about before. >> You're taking a platform mentality as opposed to a point product. >> We're taking an enterprise view of risk. So, the enterprise is, remember, it's on prem, and hybrid and cloud. If all your stuff is in the cloud, Amazon has the answer for you. None of our customers are in that situation. If you're a start up, Amazon's the way to go, period. But all of our customers have legacy. As a result of that it's an enterprise view of risk. That's why companies like Telos partner so well with Amazon because they're all about being close to the customer, they're all about using automation. We are as well. >> Alright, talk about the news you guys have, Xacta IO, you're the co-inventor of it, Jack. Talk about this product. What's the keys, what does it do, where's it applied to, you mentioned a little bit of getting past the authority time point there. What's the product about? The product is about ingesting massive amounts of information to facilitate the ATO process, one, but managing cyber risk more generically because not everybody has an ATO requirement. So, you asked a few seconds ago about, so you're taking a platform approach. Yes, we're blending three separate products that we currently have, taking that functionality and putting it on a very, very, robust platform that can exist on prem, it can exist in the cloud. To enable organizations to manage their cyber risk and if they choose, or they have a requirement, to deal with things like FedRAMP and risk management framework and cyber security framework and iso certification and things of that nature. The point is, not everyone has an ATO requirement but everyone has a need to manage their risk posture. So we're using our ability to ingest lots and lots of data from lots and lots of different sources. We're organizing that data in ways that allow an organization to understand compliance and/or risk and/or security, and visualize all that through some dashboard with ad hoc reporting that let's them blend that data across each other to get better insights about risk posture. >> And to visualize it in a way that makes sense to the user. >> Yes, so, if you're the CEO, you're going to want to see it a certain way. If you're the IT manager, you're going to want to see it a certain way. If you're a risk assessor, you're going to want to see it a different way. So that's kind of what we're talking about. >> I got to ask you one question, I know we got to go, but, a hardcore security practitioner once said to me that hardcore security practitioners, like you guys, when they were kids they used to dream about saving the world. So, I want to know, who's your favorite superhero? >> Superman. >> Superman? >> Spiderman. >> Alright, awesome. (laughing) >> That was a basic question for you guys. >> Thank you very much >> Yeah, that's the hardest question, see they're fast, they know. Star Trek or Star Wars? (laughing) >> Depends on the generation. >> We won't go there. theCUBE have 15 more minutes today. Okay, final question, what's this going to do for your business now you have new, opened up new windows with the new product integration. How's that going to change Telos, what does it do for you guys from a capabilities standpoint? >> Well, the big thing I'd suggest your listeners and your watchers to consider is, there's a new case study that just came out, it's published jointly by the CIA, Amazon and Telos, talking about why working together is really, really, really groundbreaking in terms of this movement to the cloud. 'Cause your public sector listeners and viewers are going to want to know about that because this ATO thing is really a problem. So this addresses a massive issue inside of the public sector. >> And final question, while you're here, just to get your thoughts, obviously there's a big change of the guard, if you will, from old guard to new guard, that's an Amazon term Andy Jassy uses. Also, we all saw the DOD deal, JEDI's right there on the table, a lot of people jockeying, kind of old school policy, lobbying, sales is changing. How is the landscape, from a vendor-supplies to the agencies changed and/or changing with this notion of how things were done in the past and the new school? So, three points, legislatively there's top cover, they understand the need to modernize, which is great. The executive branch understands the need to modernize through the IT modernization act as well as the cyber security executive order. And then lastly, there are use cases now that can show the way forward. Here's the problem. The IT infrastructure out there, the IT guys out there that do business in the government, many of them are not paid to be efficient, they're paid cost plus, they're paid time and material, that's no way to modernize. So, fundamentally, I think our customers understand that and they're going to revolutionize the move forward. >> And the rules are changing big time. Sole source, multi-source, I mean, Amazon's on record, I've got Teresa on record saying, "Look, if we don't want a sole source requirement, let everyone bid fairly." Let's see who wins. Who can bring a secret cloud to the table? No one else has that. >> In terms of past performance and customer use cases they're pretty much in the head, for sure. >> Great, Amazon kicking butt here, Telos, congratulations for a great event, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks a lot guys. >> I appreciate it. >> Alright, CUBE coverage here in DC, this is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay with us, we have more great interviews stacked up all day and all day tomorrow. Actually you have half day tomorrow until two 'o clock Eastern. Stay with us for more, we'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and it's partner ecosystem. >> Welcome back, live here on theCUBE along with John Furrier, I'm John Walls. Welcome to AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Again, live from Washington, D.C., your nation's capital, our nation's capital. With us now is our host for the week, puts on one heck of a show, I'm want to tell you, 10,000 strong here, jammed into the Washington Convention Center, Theresa Carlson from World Wide Public Sector. Nice to have you here, Theresa. >> Hi, good afternoon. >> Thanks for joining us. >> Love theCUBE and thank you for being here with us today. >> Absolutely. >> All week in fact. >> It's been great, it really has. Let's just talk about the show first off. Way back, six years ago, we could probably get everybody there jammed into our little area here, just about I think. >> Pretty much. >> Hard to do today. >> That's right. >> How do you feel about when you've seen this kind of growth not only of the show, but in your sector in general? >> I think at AWS we're humbled and excited and, on a personal level because I was sort of given the charge of go create this Public Sector business world-wide, I'm blown away, I pinch myself every time because you did hear my story. The first event, we had about 50 people in the basement of some hotel. And then, we're like, okay. And today, 10,000 people. Last year we had it at the Marriott Wardman Park and we shut down Connecticut Avenue so we knew we needed to make a change. (laughing) But it's great, this is really about our customers and partners. This is really for them. It's for them to make connections, share, and the whole theme of this is superheroes and they are our superheroes. >> One of the heroes you had on the stage today, John Edwards from the CIA, one of your poster-children if you will for great success and that kind of collaboration, said something to the effect of quote, "The best decision we ever made at the CIA "was engaging with AWS in that partnership." When you hear something like that from such a treasured partner, you got to feel pretty good. >> You just have to drop the microphone, boom, and you're sort of done. They are doing amazing work and their innovation levels are really leading, I would say, in the US Public Sector for sure and also, not just in US Public Sector but around the world. Their efforts of what they're doing and the scale and reach at which they're doing it so that's pretty cool. >> John, you've talked about the CIA moment, I'd like to hear the story, share with Theresa. >> Oh, you're going to steal my thunder here? >> No, I'm setting you up. That's what a good partner does. It's all yours. >> Well, John, we've talked multiple times already so I'll say it for the third time. The shot heard around the cloud was my definition of seminal moment, in big mega-trends there's always a moment. It was when Obama tweeted, Twitter grew, plane landing on the Hudson, there's always a seminal moment in major trends that make or break companies. For you guys, it was the CIA. Since then, it's just been a massive growth for you guys. That deal was interesting because it validated Shadow IT, validated the cloud, and it also unseated IBM, the behemoth sales organization that owned the account. In a way, a lot of things lined up. Take us through what's happened then, and since then to now. >> Well, you saw between yesterday at Werner Vogels' keynote and my keynote this morning, just the breadth and depth of the type of customers we have. Everything from the UK government, GCHQ, the Department of Justice with the IT in the UK, to the centers for Medicare for HHS, to amazing educational companies, Cal. Polytech., Australian Tax Office. That's just the breadth and depth of the type of customers we have and all of their stories were impactful, every story is impactful in their own way and across whatever sector they have. That really just tells you that the type of workloads that people are running has evolved because I remember in the early days, when you and I first talked, we talked about what are the kind of workloads and we were talking a little bit about website hosting. That's, of course, really evolved into things like machine learning, artificial intelligence, a massive scale of applications. >> Five or six years ago when we first chatted at re:Invent, it's interesting 'cause now this is the size of re:Invent what it was then so you're on a same trajectory from a show size. Again, validation to the growth in Public Sector. But I was complimenting you on our opening today, saying that you're tenacious because we've talked early days, it was a slog in the early days to get going in the cloud, you were knocking on a lot of doors, convincing people, hey, the future's going to look his way and I don't want to say they slammed the proverbial door in your face but it was more of, woah, they don't believe the cloud is ever going to happen for the government. Share some of those stories because now, looking back, obviously the world has changed. >> It has and, in fact, it's changed in many aspects of it, from policy makers, which I think would be great for you all to have on here sometime to get their perspective on cloud, but policy makers who are now thinking about, we just had a new modernization of IT mandate come out in the US Federal Government where they're going to give millions and millions of dollars toward the modernization of IT for US Government agencies which is going to be huge. That's the first time that's ever happened. To an executive order around cyber-security which is pretty much mandated to look at cloud and how you use it. You're seeing thing like that to even how grants are given where it used to be an old-school model of hardware only to now use cloud. Those ideas and aspects of how individuals are using IT but also just the procurements that are coming out. The buying vehicles that you're seeing come out of government, almost all of them have cloud now. >> John and I were talking about D.C. and the political climate. Obviously, we always talk about it on my show, comment on that. But, interesting, theCUBE, we could do damage here in D.C.. So much target-rich environment for content but more than ever, to me, is the tech scene here is really intrinsically different. For example, this is not a shiny new toy kind of trend, it is a fundamental transformation of the business model. What's interesting to me is, again, since the CIA shot heard around the cloud moment, you've seen a real shift in operating model. So the question I have for you, Theresa, if you can comment on this is: how has that changed? How has the procuring of technology changed? How has he human side of it changed? Because people want to do a good job, they're just on minicomputers and mainframes from the old days with small incremental improvement over the years in IT but now to a fundamental, agile, there's going to be more apps, more action. >> You said something really important just a moment ago, this is a different kind of group than you'll get in Silicon Valley and it is but it's very enterprise. Everybody you see here, every project they work on, we're talking DoD, the enterprise of enterprises. They have really challenging and tough problems to solve every day. How that's changed, in the old days here in government, they know how to write acquisitions for a missile or a tank or something really big in IT. What's changing is their ability to write acquisitions for agile IT, things like cloud utility based models, moving fast, flywheel approach to IT acquisitions. That's what's changing, that kind of acquisition model. Also, you're seeing the system integrator community here change. Where they were, what I call, body shops to do a lot of these projects, they're having to evolve their IT skills, they're getting much more certified in areas of AWS, at the system admin to certified solution architects at the highest level, to really roll these projects out. So training, education, the type of acquisition, and how they're doing it. >> What happened in terms of paradigm shift, mindset? Something had to happen 'cause you brought a vision to the table but somebody had to buy it. Usually, when we talk about legacy systems, it was a legacy mindset too, resistant, reluctant, cautious, all those things. >> Theresa: Well, everything gets thrown out. >> What happened? Where did it tip the other way? Where did it go? >> I think, over time, it's different parts of the government but culture is the hardest thing to, always, change. Other elements of any changes, you get there, but culture is fundamentally the hardest thing. You're seeing that. You've always heard us say, you can't fight gravity, and cloud is the new normal. That's for the whole culture. People are like, I cannot do my project anymore without the use of cloud computing. >> We also have a saying, you can't fight fashion either, and sometimes being in fashion is what the trends are going on. So I got to ask you, what is the fashion statement in cloud these days with your customers? Is it, you mentioned there, moving much down in the workload, is it multi-cloud? Is it analytics? Where's the fashionable, cool action right now? >> I think, here, right now, the cool thing that people really are talking about are artificial intelligence and machine learning, how they take advantage of that. You heard a lot about recognition yesterday, Poly and Lex, these new tools how they are so differentiating anything that they can possibly develop quickly. It's those kind of tools that really we're hearing and of course, IOT for state and local is a big deal. >> I got to ask you the hard question, I always ask Andy a hard question too, if he's watching, you're going to get this one probably at re:Invent. Amazon is a devops culture, you ship code fast and you make all these updates and it's moving very, very fast. One of the things that you guys have done well, but I still think you need some work to do in terms of critical analysis, is getting the releases out that are on public cloud into the GovCloud. You guys have shortened that down to less than a year on most things. You got the east region now rolled out so full disaster recovery but government has always been lagging behind most commercial. How are you guys shrinking that window? When do you see the day when push button commercial, GovCloud are all lockstep and pushing code to both clouds? >> We could do that today but there's a couple of big differentiators that are important for the GovCloud. That is it requires US citizenship, which as you know, we've talked about the challenges of technology and skills. That's just out there, right? At Amazon Web Services, we're a very diverse company, a group of individuals that do our coding and development, and not all of them are US citizens. So for these two clouds, you have to be a US citizen so that is an inhibitor. >> In terms of developers? In terms of building the product? >> Not building but the management aspect. Because of their design, we have multiple individuals managing multiple clouds, right? Now, with us, it's about getting that scale going, that flywheel for us. >> So now it's going to be managed in the USA versus made in the USA with everything as a service. >> Yeah, it is. For us, it's about making sure, number one, we can roll them out, but secondly, we do not want to roll services into those clouds unless they are critical. We are moving a lot faster, we rolled in a lot more services, and the other cool thing is we're starting to do some unique things for our GovCloud regions which, maybe the next time, we can talk a little bit more about those things. >> Final question for me, and let John jump in, the CIA has got this devops factory thing, I want you to talk about it because I think it points to the trend that's encouraging to me at least 'cause I'm skeptical on government, as you know. But this is a full transformation shift on how they do development. Talk about these 4000 developers that got rid of their development workstations, are now doing cloud, and the question is, who else is doing it? Is this a trend that you see happening across other agencies? >> The reason that's really important, I know you know, in the old-school model, you waited forever to provision anything, even just to do development, and you heard John talk about that. That's what he meant on this sort of workstation, this long period of time it took for them to do any kind of development. Now, what they do is they just use any move they have and they go and they provision the cloud like that. Then, they can also not just do that, they can create armies of cores or Amazon machine images so they have super-repeatable tools. Think about that. When you have these super-repeatable tools sitting in the cloud, that you can just pull down these machine images and begin to create both code and development and build off those building blocks, you move so much faster than you did in the past. So that's sort of a big trend, I would say they're definitely leading it. But other key groups are NASA, HHS, Department of Justice. Those are some of the key, big groups that we're seeing really do a lot changes in their dev. >> I got to ask you about the-- >> Oh, I have to say DHS, also DHS on customs and border patrols, they're doing the same, really innovators. >> One of the things that's happening which I'm intrigued by is the whole digital transformation in our culture, right, society. Certainly, the Federal Government wants to take care of the civil liberties of the citizens. So it's not a privacy question, it's more about where smart cities is going. We're starting to see, I call, the digital parks, if you will, where you're starting to see a digital park go into Yosemite and camping out and using pristine resources and enjoying them. There's a demand for citizens to democratize resources available to them, supercomputing or datasets, what's your philosophy on that? What is Amazon doing to facilitate and accelerate the citizen's value of technology so it can be in the hands of anyone? >> I love that question because I'll tell you, at the heart of our business is what we call citizen service, paving the way for disruptive innovation, making the world a better place. That's through citizen's services and they're access. For us, we have multiple things. Everything from our dataset program, where we fund multiple datasets that we put up on the cloud and let everybody take advantage of them, from the individual student to the researcher, for no fee. >> John F.: You pick up the cost on that? >> We do, we fund, we put those datasets in completely, we allow them to go and explore and use. The only time they would ever pay is if they go off and start creating their own systems. The most highly curated datasets up there right now are pretty much on AWS. You heard me talk about the earth, through AWS Earth that we have that shows the earth. We have weather datasets, cancer datasets, we're working with so many groups, genomic, phenotypes, genomes of rice, the rice genome that we've done. >> So this is something that you see that you're behind, >> Oh, completely. >> you're passionate about and will continue to do? >> Because you never know when that individual student or small community school is out there and they can access tools that they never could've accessed before. The training and education, that creativity of the mind, we need to open that up to everybody and we fundamentally believe that cloud is a huge opportunity for that. You heard me tell the 1000 genomes story in the past of where took that cancer dataset or that genome dataset from NIH, put it into AWS for the first time, the first week we put it up we had 3200 new researchers crowdsource on that dataset. That was the first time, that I know of, that anyone had put up a major dataset for researchers. >> And the scale, certainly, is a great resource. And smart cities is an interesting area. I want to get your thoughts on your relationship with Intel. They have 5G coming out, they have a full network transformation, you're going to have autonomous vehicles out there, you're going to have all kinds of digital. How are you guys planning on powering the cloud and what's the role that Intel will play with you guys in the relationship? >> Of course, serverless computing comes into play significantly in areas like that because you want to create efficiencies, even in the cloud, we're all about that. People have always said, oh, AWS won't do that 'cause that's disrupting themselves. We're okay with disrupting ourselves if it's the right thing. We also don't want to hog resourcing of these tools that aren't necessary. So when it comes to devices like that and IOT, you need very efficient computing and you need tools that allow that efficient computing to both scale but not over-resource things. You'll see us continue to have models like that around IOT, or lambda, or serverless computing and how we access and make sure that those resources are used appropriately. >> We're almost out of time so I'd like to shift over if we can. Really impressed with the NGO work, the non-profit work as well and your work in the education space. Just talk about the nuance, differences between working with those particular constituents in the customer base, what you've learned and the kind of work you're providing in those silos right now. >> They are amazing, they are so frugal with their resources and it makes you hungry to really want to go out and help their mission because what you will find when you go meet with a lot of these not-for-profits, they are doing some of the most amazing work that even many people have really not heard of and they're being so frugal with how they resource and drive IT. There's a program called Feed the World and I met the developer of this and it's like two people. They've fed millions of people around the world with like three developers and creating an app and doing great work. To everything from like the American Heart Association that has a mission, literally, of stopping heart disease which is our number one killer around the world. When you meet them and you see the things they're doing and how they are using cloud computing to change and forward their mission. You heard us talk about human trafficking, it's a horrible, misunderstood environment out there that more of us need to be informed on and help with but computing can be a complete differentiator for them, cloud computing. We give millions of dollars of grants away, not just give away, we help them. We help them with the technical resourcing, how they're efficient, and we work really hard to try to help forward their mission and get the word out. It's humbling and it's really nice to feel that you're not only doing things for big governments but you also can help that individual not-for-profit that has a mission that's really important to not only them but groups in the world. >> It's a different level of citizen service, right? I mean, ocean conservancy this morning, talking about that and tidal change. >> What's the biggest thing that, in your mind, personal question, obviously you've been through from the beginning to now, a lot more growth ahead of you. I'm speculating that AWS Public Sector, although you won't disclose the numbers, I'll find a number out there. It's big, you guys could run the table and take a big share, similar to what you've done with startup and now enterprise market. Do you have a pinch-me moment where you go, where are we? Where are you on that spectrum of self-awareness of what's actually happening to you and this world and your team? In Public Sector, we operate just like all of AWS and all of Amazon. We really have treated this business like a startup and I create new teams just like everybody else does. I make them frugal and small and I say go do this. I will tell you, I don't even think about it because we are just scratching the surface, we are just getting going, and today we have customers in 155 countries and I have employees in about 25 countries now. Seven years ago, that was not the case. When you're moving that fast, you know that you're just getting going and that you have so much more that you can do to help your customers and create a partner ecosystem. It's a mission for us, it really is a mission and my team and myself are really excited, out there every day working to support our customers, to really grow and get them moving faster. We sort of keep pushing them to go faster. We have a long way to go and maybe ask me five years from now, we'll see. >> How about next year? We'll come back, we'll ask you again next year. >> Yeah, maybe I'll know more next year. >> John W.: Theresa, thank you for the time, very generous with your time. I know you have a big schedule over the course of this week so thank you for being here with us once again on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Many time CUBE alum, Theresa Carlson from AWS. Back with more here from the AWS Public Sector Summit 2017, Washington, D.C. right after this. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington D.C., it's the CUBE, covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017, brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner, Ecosystem. >> Well, welcome back to the CUBE here. We are live in Washington D.C., day two of our coverage here at the AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Again, in Washington D.C., just about a mile and a half or so, about a mile from the White House, conveniently located here in our nation's capitol with John Furrier. I'm John Walls. John, good morning to you, sir. >> Good morning, great day yesterday. A lot of great interviews, thought leaders, inspirational, very informational. And again, the CUBE just doing its thing, our inaugural event, here at Amazon Web Services Public Sector Summit. Our first time here, this is the seventh year of the show. Started out as just a kind of gathering, people coming together. >> Kind of a hope for a gathering too, right? We heard yesterday, guys, "Boy, I hope somebody shows up." Well, we have 10,000 showing up now, so. >> It's still small, but that's a huge number. Some big companies don't even get that many for their annual user customer conference in general. So, 10,000 is certainly a good number. I expect Amazon to continue to blow away their performance and the numbers. I expect this show to be, again, the Amazon re:Invent, which is their big show, as a company. Amazon, which was a re:Invent, which is held in Las Vegas every year and overseas. But this going to be the public sector version: education, government, health, all these different public sector opportunities are ripe for the cloud. And that's really the big story. >> You know, and I think we saw that on the keynotes this morning with Theresa Carlson who's the Vice President of Worldwide Public Sector here for AWS. But she brought out a number of guests, John Edwards being the most prominent, the CIO of the CIA, but also Representative for the Australian Tax Office, Representative for the Ocean Conservancy. She talked about state and local governments. So you hit the nail on the head. We think public sector, I think maybe the presumption is go right to big government. But there are a lot of tentacles, if you will, out there or a lot of segments out there. 22 thousand non-profits, for example, that AWS is now working with. State, local, and federal governments. So they've cast a wide net, and they've caught a lot of fish. >> I mean, yeah, I mean to me this is an interesting time in our lives. What's the famous quote? We live in interesting times? We are living in interesting times, certainly in Washington D.C. here we are feeling it. Obviously, coming from California, I always love to come into D.C. to feel what it's like into the boiling water with Trump in the office and all the disarray in the government. There's a shooting of a Congressman this morning, 50 shots fired at a softball practice. It's insane. And so, there's also change going on at the technology level, but that's changing government and also roles of education and whatnot. So you have this really kind of weird environment like all the evidence of the frog in boiling water. At some point, it doesn't know it's being boiled to death, but that's been the public sector for generations. Really, I think the seminal changeover was mainframes and minicomputers really kind of powered the government, and I think it's been incremental changes. And you've seen IT become what we've seen in the enterprise: an incremental improvement and bolting on some support. Here, we've got wireless. And so, it's kind of moving the ball down the field yard by yard, no major long ball throws to the endzone as we say in football. But now with the cloud, you have an opportunity to take the domain expertise of all the different agencies because they want to do a good job. Their world is changing. You can look no farther than education, higher ed, and even K through 12. I mean, they're dealing with an audience that's grown up with cell phones, mobile phones, smartphones. I mean, they're not phones anymore. They're computers that happen to make phone calls, and half the kids don't even make phone calls anymore, so. >> That's right, half are you kidding? >> It's not even a phone anymore. It's a computer, a camera. >> It's a texting device. >> User experiences are driving this, and it's a forcing function. So all this disarray, all this opportunity, the perfect storm of innovation happening. And I think the cloud enables that. And I think that's part of the reason why Amazon Web Services is, again, feeling the love here because the growth is right there in front of them. >> Now, we're going to have Theresa Carlson on a little bit later on, but I want to just get your take on her. She's taken this from an infancy stage and has just walked it, absolutely, she's amazing. >> Theresa Carlson, we'll have her on. She's been on the CUBE multiple times. We always joke with her when she comes on the CUBE when we're at re:Invent and other places we see her when she comes on. "Hey, we should come to your conference." And so, we're here. But the thing about Theresa Carlson is, she's loved by all of the customers today, and she's very customer-focused. But she's tenacious. She is smart. She's beautiful. She's a hustler. She's great. So she is a great leader, and she's been knocking on doors in this town for years when cloud wasn't cloud yet. And you know, when you're an innovator, pioneer, the door slams in your face, right? So, you know, you've got to have that kind of tenacity to stay on it, and that's what she's done. She's been amazing. I'm a real big fan of hers. I mean, I think she's got some work to do, areas I think that she's got to really expand and go faster with Ecosystem. Some of the case studies are out there to be had. We know for a fact, I mean, and they talked on stage, but there's a lot of smart cities, things going on. There's a ton of transformative Amazon Web Services deals happening, so you want to see more of those, want to see more of them faster. I want to see more peer review. I want to see more case studies. So to me, that's where I think she's going to have to really keep the hustle going and then get her team cut out, set the bar high and continue to innovate. >> You know, we talked about that seminal moment with the CIA deal four years ago when the CIA made the move, went to AWS, chose them over IBM. John Edwards was talking about that mindshift at the agency today, saying, it was our goal as we looked at all of our partners, instead of making you or them become like us, we wanted to become like them. We wanted to be faster. We wanted to be more agile. We wanted to be more nimble. We wanted to be more open in a way or at least open to new ideas. And so, it was a transformational shift in their paradigm that really sent them on a great course. He couldn't have been more positive on that stage today talking about AWS and the relationship with the CIA and what they have done for the agency, what it's done for the agency. >> Look, there's a frustration in public sector. It's the elephant in the room, so to speak. And that is, they want to do more with less because that's always been their role. Now, some kind of say, "Oh yeah, "a bolted contractor kind of bids." And you know, the procurement process which old school was, you know, the $45 bolt that the joke in D.C. is for these big government and, you know, Army contracts. But they still get scrutinized on costs. So, you know, there's been a way of doing things that are changing, right? So how you procure technology, how you deploy it, is really different now. And the opportunity is to get this in the hands of people who want to move fast. They want to actually deliver a good product. There's a lot of great people in public sector who love their job, and if they don't give them the tools, you're going to see what I call a brain drain go on in public service. And you're seeing that going on, obviously with Trump and the government here. There are a lot of smart people saying, "Hey, I'm out of here." Right? It always kind of happens during political changeovers, but no more than the passion of the people working. Just give them the tools for the job, alright? That's kind of the cloud mojo. It's like give them, move fast, give them the technology they need. And a lot of stuff we're hearing from friends is one of our guests yesterday, they need some of the basic stuff automated away. I want the compliance. I want the security. I want to make sure that I can run the operations at scale. And that's really the table stakes. And that's going to be the tipping point, when all those details around compliance can just be programmed in once and just work. That's when you're going to start to see some real acceleration, new apps, new developers, new environments for whether it's students, federal workers, or practitioners in health and human services, you're going to start to see those things happen. >> Well, it's all about stability, right? It's the stability and certainty and knowing that what I'm doing is okay. Right? That I'm staying within the confines, the regulations, you know, this town knows regulations. >> All of these markets, you know, what's going on in those worlds? And a lot of people ask questions. People in the industry, they know what's going on, and they want better, faster, cheaper, now. And I think that's Amazon's ethos. I mean, Jeff Bezos, the CEO, is living large right now, stock prices at thousands and his personal cash to send people to space and build up Mars, for instance. That's his moon shot. It's not his moon shot, it's his Mars shot. So, he's got a grand vision. He loves space. But he's always said the ethos of Amazon, which Amazon Web Services is part of Amazon, is lower prices for customers, constantly deliver lower prices, push the prices lower, and ship product faster. >> That's true. >> Get it in the hands faster on the delivery side. So you could apply that ethos to anything. It's really a timeless ethos. It's not pegged on one division. Andy Jassy and Theresa Carlson, they picked that up. They're trying to drive the prices down. CIA talks about that. And delivering faster means speed. I want faster drives. I want lower prices. And they've delivered that. Amazon has consistently delivered better product at a lower price and working on shipping software faster, better performance. You know, delivering here is packets. So, there it is. That's really why Amazon is winning. That's the key to their success. >> Well, it's been a winning formula, for sure, and we'll be talking about that much more today as we continue our coverage here from Washington D.C. We are live here on the CUBE. We continue with more from AWS Public Sector Summit 2017 right after this.